NVDA events and user experiences
Mark
What are the NVDA events that users experience most often? That is, events for which sounds are reliably generated for users?
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Gene
Are you asking about sounds like NVDA start and NVDA close? There
are certain sounds that NVDA generates for events specific to NVDA.
I turn off sounds because I consider them unnecessary and annoying.
I know when NVDA runs because I hear speech. I know when it stops
because when I unload it, speech stops. If I run NVDA and hear
nothing, I know something is wrong but if I heard the start sound,
that wouldn't tell me anything. I'd still have to trouble shoot.
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If you are asking about other sounds, what do you have in mind? Gene On 12/27/2022 5:37 AM, Mark wrote:
What are the NVDA events that users experience most often? That is, events for which sounds are reliably generated for users? |
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Mark
I'm including the regular speech output as sound too. So, I'm referring to programmatic events that cause speech and sounds to happen for an NVDA user. For example, when the user moves the focus to a different NVDA object I believe something called a "gain focus" event happens, which causes NVDA to generate output for the user to experience. Joseph had mentioned some of these in the thread about what happens when a user switches applications. I'm trying to figure out what are the most common NVDA events.
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Hi, Based on NVDA source code, a common event NVDA will (or will not) handle is show/hide/UI tree changes. More specifically, NVDA does not handle many show window events as they can happen anytime anywhere. NVDA drops them conditionally (with some exceptions) because of performance considerations - it takes some time (at the level of microseconds) to handle events, involving looking up what the event is, which accessibility API is the event coming from, which object fired it, object construction to locate properties such as name and role, looping through global plugins and app modules (if any) to handle the event for this object, and destroying the object. Because show/hide/UI tree changes happen hundreds to thousands of times a second, it will overwhelm NVDA. So it is not really "gain focus" event that NVDA will handle internally - it is show window event. Practically speaking, contrary to what people may think, gain focus event is not the event NVDA will respond the most with audio (sounds and speech included) - rather, it is "value change." You can observe this in action if you edit a text document, change sliders, choose combo box items, and so on. While it can be said that some value changes somewhat amount to focus changes, it is really values that are being changed. For example, if you do enable speak typed characters and type into Notepad, you will hear NVDA announce the typed character because it will handle value change event (there is a specific internal NVDA event called "typed character" that is responsible for announcing typed characters, but for simplicity, we can say that NVDA is responding to value changes). Another reason why gain focus event is not the most common event that can result in sounds is internals of object navigation. When you move to the next/previous/parent/first child object, NVDA will notice that you are not moving focus but will announce where you are going. The event responsible for this is called "become navigator object" and is handled regardless of how you move to a different control - focus movement, object navigation, mouse movement, touch interaction, using Windows API to forcefully switch foreground windows (yes, there is at least one add-on that does this in response to user requests). Just because an event can be run whenever the navigator object (and/or focus) changes does not guarantee that sounds will be played (speech and sounds). Why? I will answer in January 2023. Cheers, Joseph |
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Hi, As an addendum: value is not the only property NVDA cares about - it will respond to other property changes such as name, state, description, location (sometimes), and API specific propertiess. While focus change may result in audio output, property changes do cause NVDA to visit event handling facility quite often. As for my statement on the last post about answering something in January 2023: that's the subject of the next Inside Story post. Cheers, Joseph |
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Mark
So, it sounds like users will experience a lot of NVDA speech and sounds as a confirmation of value or property changes. I guess I'm struggling with the events that cause speech to be produced when the user moves the system focus. Also, if I read you correctly, one thing I don't think I appreciate is the amount of events that are being issued by applications and the operating system but that NVDA is ignoring to create the user experience. I'm looking forward to the January inside story. And thank you for all you've written.
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Do you have a use case as to why all the questions? This seems more like a developer discussion to me. Are you trying to make an app more accessible? Are you trying to email an app dev? Are you developing an app?
Happy Tuesday.
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mark
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2022 8:19 AM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA events and user experiences
So, it sounds like users will experience a lot of NVDA speech and sounds as a confirmation of value or property changes. I guess I'm struggling with the events that cause speech to be produced when the user moves the system focus. Also, if I read you correctly, one thing I don't think I appreciate is the amount of events that are being issued by applications and the operating system but that NVDA is ignoring to create the user experience. I'm looking forward to the January inside story. And thank you for all you've written. |
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On Tue, Dec 27, 2022 at 12:00 PM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
This seems more like a developer discussion to me.- About which I agree. NVDA Developers Group This group is focused on the development of the NVDA Screen Reader. It is not an end-user support group.
-- Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 19045; Office 2016, Version 16.0.15726.20188, 32-bit "Be Yourself" is the worst advice you can give to some people. ~ Tom Masson |
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Brian's Mail list account
Yes when it comes to sounds though, assuming system sounds are on, then some things you hear are generated by windows itself. I'm not a great fan of the Windows10 sounds myself though.
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Sounds from the system can also alert one that something has happened, and nvda may not have noticed it,which is one reasonI keep them on. Brian -- bglists@... Sent via blueyonder.(Virgin media) Please address personal E-mail to:- briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff' in the display name field. ----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark" <mweiler@...> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2022 4:19 PM Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA events and user experiences So, it sounds like users will experience a lot of NVDA speech and sounds as a confirmation of value or property changes. I guess I'm struggling with the events that cause speech to be produced when the user moves the system focus. Also, if I read you correctly, one thing I don't think I appreciate is the amount of events that are being issued by applications and the operating system but that NVDA is ignoring to create the user experience. I'm looking forward to the January inside story. And thank you for all you've written. |
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Mark
I'm not a developer and am not developing an app. I'm asking questions that might be a bit more technical to try to find reliable patterns in what goes on when using NVDA. I find it helpful for my way of thinking.
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