NVDA and excel locking up and freezing
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Cearbhall O'Meadhra
Hi,
I regularly use Excel 206 with NVDA – latest update on Windows 10.
Lately, excel freezes when I type a text string into a cell in a spreadsheet containing 500 rows and 26 columns. This happens when the cells are all filled with formulas or even when the cells have all been converted to values and no longer contain formulas.
When excel freezes this way, NVDA is totally locked up as well. I have no function for about 10 or 15 minutes, until Excel has finished whatever madness it is going through, and releases the operating system.
I have read that this can happen when there are a number of formulas because Excel has to check every formula in case it relates to the material that has been entered in the current cell before the stoppage. However, I find the behaviour inconsistent, as I described above, in which the formulas are no longer present.
Has anyone else experienced this? Do you know of any precautions I can take to avoid this happening?
All comments and suggestions very welcome.
All the best,
Cearbhall
m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...
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Gene
Whatever is happening, have you tried to go to the desktop? At
times, something happens and a program or NVDA and a program are
unresponsive when NVDA is in it but if I move to the desktop, I can
use the computer for other things if I am waiting for the program to
resume or I can close the program with Task Manager.
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I very seldom have a whole system freeze, as I did in XP and earlier. Gene On 1/11/2023 12:50 PM, Cearbhall
O'Meadhra wrote:
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On Wed, Jan 11, 2023 at 01:50 PM, Cearbhall O'Meadhra wrote:
When excel freezes this way, NVDA is totally locked up as well. I have no function for about 10 or 15 minutes, until Excel has finished whatever madness it is going through, and releases the operating system.- Are you saying the computer, as a whole, freezes? If so, there's probably going to have to be some digging into logs, and I don't mean just NVDA logs, to determine what's happening to cause the entire system to lock up. If, as Gene says, you are able to go to the desktop (or even if you can't, and the machine itself is not frozen), try invoking Narrator via the keyboard shortcut and taking a look at Task Manager (or its equivalent, if you're using another utility) to see if you can determine what is causing that "battle to the death" during the time it's in progress. -- Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 11 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 22621; Office 2016, Version 16.0.15726.20188, 32-bit It is much easier to be critical than to be correct. ~ Benjamin Disraeli, 1804-1881 |
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Cearbhall O'Meadhra
No, Jean,
Even the desktop is unresponsive! In fact I cannot get to the desktop let alone do anything on it.
All the best,
Cearbhall
m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2023 7:37 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and excel locking up and freezing
Whatever is happening, have you tried to go to the desktop? At times, something happens and a program or NVDA and a program are unresponsive when NVDA is in it but if I move to the desktop, I can use the computer for other things if I am waiting for the program to resume or I can close the program with Task Manager. On 1/11/2023 12:50 PM, Cearbhall O'Meadhra wrote:
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Cearbhall,
Definitely try: 1. Using DISM (Deployment Imaging Servicing and Management) and SFC (System File Checker) to Repair Windows 8.1, 10 & 11 Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 11 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 22621; Office 2016, Version 16.0.15726.20188, 32-bit It is much easier to be critical than to be correct. ~ Benjamin Disraeli, 1804-1881 |
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Cearbhall O'Meadhra
Thanks, Brian,
Even Narrator does not come on.
If I leave the computer for more than 15 minutes I find that it is active again.
Yesterday, when this happened, after returning from the 15 minutes waiting time and the Excel program was active again, I made the mistake of opening the cell where the three text words were entered and the whole system locked up again as soon as I pressed return to close the cell.
All the best,
Cearbhall
m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2023 7:41 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and excel locking up and freezing
On Wed, Jan 11, 2023 at 01:50 PM, Cearbhall O'Meadhra wrote:
- Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 11 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 22621; Office 2016, Version 16.0.15726.20188, 32-bit It is much easier to be critical than to be correct. ~ Benjamin Disraeli, 1804-1881 |
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Repair an Office application - Microsoft Support
What's on that page applies from M365 all the way back to Office 2010. Since you're using Office 2016, you'll be led through the "Click to install" path rather than the MSI installed path, in all probability. But you will be led through whichever applies to your computer, as the repair software figures out which path is the correct one. -- Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 11 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 22621; Office 2016, Version 16.0.15726.20188, 32-bit It is much easier to be critical than to be correct. ~ Benjamin Disraeli, 1804-1881 |
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Cearbhall O'Meadhra
Brian,
This sounds daunting! However, you may be right and I can only try it.
The lock up happens erratically. In other words, I cannot trigger it in a planned way. This means that I cannot be sure that the problem is solved after running any of the steps that you recommend.
When it does happen, of course, I will not be able to operate at all!
All the best,
Cearbhall
m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2023 11:06 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and excel locking up and freezing
Cearbhall, 1. Using DISM (Deployment Imaging Servicing and Management) and SFC (System File Checker) to Repair Windows 8.1, 10 & 11 -- Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 11 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 22621; Office 2016, Version 16.0.15726.20188, 32-bit It is much easier to be critical than to be correct. ~ Benjamin Disraeli, 1804-1881 |
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what does your event viewer say? can you filter by errors and go to that list? then save it in a text file and read the latest ones after the lock up?
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Cearbhall O'Meadhra
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2023 3:12 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and excel locking up and freezing
Brian,
This sounds daunting! However, you may be right and I can only try it.
The lock up happens erratically. In other words, I cannot trigger it in a planned way. This means that I cannot be sure that the problem is solved after running any of the steps that you recommend.
When it does happen, of course, I will not be able to operate at all!
All the best,
Cearbhall
m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Cearbhall, 1. Using DISM (Deployment Imaging Servicing and Management) and SFC (System File Checker) to Repair Windows 8.1, 10 & 11 -- Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 11 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 22621; Office 2016, Version 16.0.15726.20188, 32-bit It is much easier to be critical than to be correct. ~ Benjamin Disraeli, 1804-1881
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On Wed, Jan 11, 2023 at 06:11 PM, Cearbhall O'Meadhra wrote:
This sounds daunting! However, you may be right and I can only try it.- It's really not. DISM and SFC are one-line commands you issue in either Command Prompt or Power Shell. You'll see how short the instructions are for doing an Office Repair install actually are, and there's not an awful lot of user interaction in the triggering sequence. I've had scads of people follow those step-by-step instructions for a Windows Repair Install/Feature update, with no questions from most of them. I know you can do this. It looks way worse or more daunting than it is in actuality. -- Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 11 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 22621; Office 2016, Version 16.0.15726.20188, 32-bit It is much easier to be critical than to be correct. ~ Benjamin Disraeli, 1804-1881 |
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Cearbhall O'Meadhra
Brian,
I pressed on the link to the office repair tool and the Firefox screen froze up totally. The rest of windows completely froze and I could not navigate the computer. I left it on all night, thinking that the routine might have started automatically. The computer was still frozen when I came into my office this morning.
I had to force the PC to shut off and restart from scratch.
The system is back up and running now but I think that the link should have opened some sort of dialog which did not happen. I’ll try again later.
All the best,
Cearbhall
m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2023 11:11 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and excel locking up and freezing
Repair an Office application - Microsoft Support Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 11 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 22621; Office 2016, Version 16.0.15726.20188, 32-bit It is much easier to be critical than to be correct. ~ Benjamin Disraeli, 1804-1881 |
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Brian's Mail list account
As a matter of interest, does it let you export your file to some other format, or does that lock it up as well?
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Brian -- bglists@... Sent via blueyonder.(Virgin media) Please address personal E-mail to:- briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff' in the display name field. ----- Original Message -----
From: "Cearbhall O'Meadhra" <cearbhall.omeadhra@...> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2023 11:06 PM Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and excel locking up and freezing Thanks, Brian, Even Narrator does not come on. If I leave the computer for more than 15 minutes I find that it is active again. Yesterday, when this happened, after returning from the 15 minutes waiting time and the Excel program was active again, I made the mistake of opening the cell where the three text words were entered and the whole system locked up again as soon as I pressed return to close the cell. All the best, Cearbhall m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@... From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2023 7:41 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and excel locking up and freezing On Wed, Jan 11, 2023 at 01:50 PM, Cearbhall O'Meadhra wrote: When excel freezes this way, NVDA is totally locked up as well. I have no function for about 10 or 15 minutes, until Excel has finished whatever madness it is going through, and releases the operating system. - Are you saying the computer, as a whole, freezes? If so, there's probably going to have to be some digging into logs, and I don't mean just NVDA logs, to determine what's happening to cause the entire system to lock up. If, as Gene says, you are able to go to the desktop (or even if you can't, and the machine itself is not frozen), try invoking Narrator via the keyboard shortcut and taking a look at Task Manager (or its equivalent, if you're using another utility) to see if you can determine what is causing that "battle to the death" during the time it's in progress. -- Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 11 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 22621; Office 2016, Version 16.0.15726.20188, 32-bit It is much easier to be critical than to be correct. ~ Benjamin Disraeli, 1804-1881 -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com |
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Cearbhall O'Meadhra
Brian,
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The lockup only occurs when I edit a cell. I am not sure if it is because I am entering text or just because something has stopped functioning for some hidden reason. When free of the lockup, I have full functionality and no problems with importing or exporting. I think we will not get any further with this discussion because I cannot be precise enough about the trigger of the event. I'll take note of all your advice and try out these suggestions if it occurs again. All the best, Cearbhall m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@... -----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian's Mail list account via groups.io Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2023 8:20 AM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and excel locking up and freezing As a matter of interest, does it let you export your file to some other format, or does that lock it up as well? Brian -- bglists@... Sent via blueyonder.(Virgin media) Please address personal E-mail to:- briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff' in the display name field. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cearbhall O'Meadhra" <cearbhall.omeadhra@...> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2023 11:06 PM Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and excel locking up and freezing Thanks, Brian, Even Narrator does not come on. If I leave the computer for more than 15 minutes I find that it is active again. Yesterday, when this happened, after returning from the 15 minutes waiting time and the Excel program was active again, I made the mistake of opening the cell where the three text words were entered and the whole system locked up again as soon as I pressed return to close the cell. All the best, Cearbhall m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@... From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2023 7:41 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and excel locking up and freezing On Wed, Jan 11, 2023 at 01:50 PM, Cearbhall O'Meadhra wrote: When excel freezes this way, NVDA is totally locked up as well. I have no function for about 10 or 15 minutes, until Excel has finished whatever madness it is going through, and releases the operating system. - Are you saying the computer, as a whole, freezes? If so, there's probably going to have to be some digging into logs, and I don't mean just NVDA logs, to determine what's happening to cause the entire system to lock up. If, as Gene says, you are able to go to the desktop (or even if you can't, and the machine itself is not frozen), try invoking Narrator via the keyboard shortcut and taking a look at Task Manager (or its equivalent, if you're using another utility) to see if you can determine what is causing that "battle to the death" during the time it's in progress. -- Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 11 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 22621; Office 2016, Version 16.0.15726.20188, 32-bit It is much easier to be critical than to be correct. ~ Benjamin Disraeli, 1804-1881 -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com |
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Luke Davis
Cearbhall O'Meadhra wrote:
I pressed on the link to the office repair tool and the Firefox screen froze up totally. The rest of windows completely froze and I could not navigate theYou may have the infamous Firefox with NVDA lock-up problem, may or may not be related to your other problem. I suggest you use Brave or some other browser to attempt Brian's repair link. What are your CPU specs and RAM capacity? Luke |
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Luke Davis
On Jan 11, Cearbhall O'Meadhra wrote:
I regularly use Excel 206 with NVDA – latest update on Windows 10.No offense, but "latest" is a word that nobody who gives technical support pays any attention to. All of us have heard too many times someone say "latest", only to find out that their update mechanism broke, or for some other reason they weren't really on the actual latest, or that some other variable made their latest be different than somebody else's latest. Please, everyone, use actual digits to give your versions, not the word latest. The same goes for "Windows 10": there are so many possible versions of Windows 10, that just saying "Windows 10" is mostly uninformative. Please run winver and get the actual version. Lately, excel freezes when I type a text string into a cell in a spreadsheet containing 500 rows and 26 columns. This happens when the cells are all filledWhile I don't know why it would happen in the second case (more on that below), one thing I would suggest is turning off automatic calculation. If you set your sheets to manual mode, and use F9 to recalculate, this might solve your problem, even in the mysterious second case of no formulas. Here is an article you might find useful if you decide to play with auto vs. manual calculation: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-US/office/troubleshoot/excel/current-mode-of-calculation Now, for the no formula case: leaving aside the question of whether there are formulas somehow hiding on the page, or in some linked sheet, or some such: have you tried running Excel in safe mode? It could be some kind of add-in causing this. To start in safe mode: Press Windows+R, and type: excel /safe Then open your file from within Excel. Also, please run the COM Registration Fixing Tool of NVDA (NVDA+N, T, R, follow the prompts, ignore the absurd warning message). That is unlikely to help, but it won't hurt. Lastly, since we don't yet know for sure that this is an Excel problem rather than an NVDA problem, you might consider setting your log level to debug in NVDA, and providing a log showing one of these Excel freezes in action. Off list, of course, and only if none of the above help. However the common thread between Excel freezing and Firefox freezing as you reported in another message, might be NVDA. It also might be your hardware, or something corrupted in Windows, so do follow Brian's Windows repair suggestions, especially the easy ones of SFC and DISM. If you pay attention to when these freezes happen, are they more likely to happen after the computer has been operational for many hours, or do they sometimes happen right after a restart? Can you list your NVDA add-ons? Luke |
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wayne
All right, I agree, you're right the exact soft wear version is very important when it comes to running down issues and problems with the computer because they could be very involved and very complex. I have gotten myself a lot of help from time to time when I have had things happen and lose speach. If you have a smart phone, such as an iPhone, have a look at you're locked hup computer, if you can, what you discover may help you and or us to figure out what is going on.
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Wayne ----- Original Message -----
From: "Luke Davis" <luke@...> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2023 1:59 AM Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and excel locking up and freezing On Jan 11, Cearbhall O'Meadhra wrote: I regularly use Excel 206 with NVDA – latest update on Windows 10.No offense, but "latest" is a word that nobody who gives technical support pays any attention to. All of us have heard too many times someone say "latest", only to find out that their update mechanism broke, or for some other reason they weren't really on the actual latest, or that some other variable made their latest be different than somebody else's latest. Please, everyone, use actual digits to give your versions, not the word latest. The same goes for "Windows 10": there are so many possible versions of Windows 10, that just saying "Windows 10" is mostly uninformative. Please run winver and get the actual version. Lately, excel freezes when I type a text string into a cell in a spreadsheet containing 500 rows and 26 columns. This happens when the cells are all filledWhile I don't know why it would happen in the second case (more on that below), one thing I would suggest is turning off automatic calculation. If you set your sheets to manual mode, and use F9 to recalculate, this might solve your problem, even in the mysterious second case of no formulas. Here is an article you might find useful if you decide to play with auto vs. manual calculation: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-US/office/troubleshoot/excel/current-mode-of-calculation Now, for the no formula case: leaving aside the question of whether there are formulas somehow hiding on the page, or in some linked sheet, or some such: have you tried running Excel in safe mode? It could be some kind of add-in causing this. To start in safe mode: Press Windows+R, and type: excel /safe Then open your file from within Excel. Also, please run the COM Registration Fixing Tool of NVDA (NVDA+N, T, R, follow the prompts, ignore the absurd warning message). That is unlikely to help, but it won't hurt. Lastly, since we don't yet know for sure that this is an Excel problem rather than an NVDA problem, you might consider setting your log level to debug in NVDA, and providing a log showing one of these Excel freezes in action. Off list, of course, and only if none of the above help. However the common thread between Excel freezing and Firefox freezing as you reported in another message, might be NVDA. It also might be your hardware, or something corrupted in Windows, so do follow Brian's Windows repair suggestions, especially the easy ones of SFC and DISM. If you pay attention to when these freezes happen, are they more likely to happen after the computer has been operational for many hours, or do they sometimes happen right after a restart? Can you list your NVDA add-ons? Luke |
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On Thu, Jan 12, 2023 at 04:59 AM, Luke Davis wrote:
Please, everyone, use actual digits to give your versions, not the word latest.- Amen to that, particularly since we're now in an era of mixed Windows 10 and 11 along with 4 versions of Office in support: 2016, 2019, 2021 and M365. I refer every member of this group to the admin notice I sent out at the beginning of December, barely one month ago: To those asking questions: Please give detailed information on your computing environment -- Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 11 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 22621; Office 2016, Version 16.0.15726.20188, 32-bit It is much easier to be critical than to be correct. ~ Benjamin Disraeli, 1804-1881 |
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Cearbhall O'Meadhra
Thanks for the thought Luke but I do have automatic calculation turned off. I agree with you, this used to be a major hold up of progress last year.
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I appreciate your point about "latest" in general. However, I think this behaviour is not so much a flaw in the program as some handling issue on my own part. Anyway, it is definitely not and NVDA issue. I only raise it here because I know that there are many expert excel users on the list. All the best, Cearbhall m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@... -----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Luke Davis Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2023 10:00 AM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and excel locking up and freezing On Jan 11, Cearbhall O'Meadhra wrote: I regularly use Excel 206 with NVDA – latest update on Windows 10.No offense, but "latest" is a word that nobody who gives technical support pays any attention to. All of us have heard too many times someone say "latest", only to find out that their update mechanism broke, or for some other reason they weren't really on the actual latest, or that some other variable made their latest be different than somebody else's latest. Please, everyone, use actual digits to give your versions, not the word latest. The same goes for "Windows 10": there are so many possible versions of Windows 10, that just saying "Windows 10" is mostly uninformative. Please run winver and get the actual version. Lately, excel freezes when I type a text string into a cell in aWhile I don't know why it would happen in the second case (more on that below), one thing I would suggest is turning off automatic calculation. If you set your sheets to manual mode, and use F9 to recalculate, this might solve your problem, even in the mysterious second case of no formulas. Here is an article you might find useful if you decide to play with auto vs. manual calculation: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-US/office/troubleshoot/excel/current-mode-of-calculation Now, for the no formula case: leaving aside the question of whether there are formulas somehow hiding on the page, or in some linked sheet, or some such: have you tried running Excel in safe mode? It could be some kind of add-in causing this. To start in safe mode: Press Windows+R, and type: excel /safe Then open your file from within Excel. Also, please run the COM Registration Fixing Tool of NVDA (NVDA+N, T, R, follow the prompts, ignore the absurd warning message). That is unlikely to help, but it won't hurt. Lastly, since we don't yet know for sure that this is an Excel problem rather than an NVDA problem, you might consider setting your log level to debug in NVDA, and providing a log showing one of these Excel freezes in action. Off list, of course, and only if none of the above help. However the common thread between Excel freezing and Firefox freezing as you reported in another message, might be NVDA. It also might be your hardware, or something corrupted in Windows, so do follow Brian's Windows repair suggestions, especially the easy ones of SFC and DISM. If you pay attention to when these freezes happen, are they more likely to happen after the computer has been operational for many hours, or do they sometimes happen right after a restart? Can you list your NVDA add-ons? Luke -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com |
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Cearbhall,
Just in case you don't know it exists, you might want to take a look at the Microsoft Office Accessibility Discussion Group (full disclosure: I'm a moderator there, too). An awful lot of the traffic seems to end up being about Excel in one way or another. I just took a very deep dive into certain Excel functions, as well as conditional formatting, off-group that I need to post about just so others can use it if they need it. Microsoft Office Accessibility Discussion Group Archive: https://groups.io/g/office-accessibility/topics
Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 11 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 22621; Office 2016, Version 16.0.15726.20188, 32-bit It is much easier to be critical than to be correct. ~ Benjamin Disraeli, 1804-1881 |
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