visual highlight
|
Laurie Mehta
Something that people call visual highlight has been mentioned on this list and I am wondering, What is visual highlight?
Thanks, Laurie M. |
|
|
|
Luke Davis
Laurie Mehta via groups.io wrote:
Something that people call visual highlight has been mentioned on this list and I am wondering,Quite a good description of it is given in section 9.1 of the NVDA user manual. (Press NVDA+n, h, u, then either NVDA+Ctrl+F and type the word visual, or just go through the table of contents until you get there). May I suggest you read that for the general explanation, then come back here with specific questions? Luke |
|
|
|
Laurie Mehta
Thanks Luke! This is the starting point that I was hoping to get. The term was so general-sounding that I was not sure where to begin looking to learn more.
😊
-Laurie M. -----Original Message----- Laurie Mehta via groups.io wrote:
> Something that people call visual highlight has been mentioned on this > list and I am wondering, What is visual highlight?
Quite a good description of it is given in section 9.1 of the NVDA user manual. (Press NVDA+n, h, u, then either NVDA+Ctrl+F and type the word visual, or just go through the table of contents until you get there).
May I suggest you read that for the general explanation, then come back here with specific questions?
Luke
|
|
|
|
Laurie,
Luke's advice is absolutely best. As a sighted user (which is, of course, who this feature is aimed at) my main use of it is to immediately draw my attention to what it is that NVDA has focus on. There are several different states that are indicated by the actual outline color and style around the thing that has focus, but I rely on that far less (not that it's not helpful, and I am NOT saying that it's not helpful) than I do just having a visual indicator of what it is that NVDA's working with at that moment. The way that NVDA, or any screen reader, jumps around web pages in particular is often at very wide variance with how one peruses the same pages using sight. And when something like visual highlight is not on, and no attempt whatsoever is made to even keep what's showing on the screen congruent with where the screen reader has focus, you can get completely lost very, very quickly. -- Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 11 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 22621; Office 2016, Version 16.0.15726.20188, 32-bit It is much easier to be critical than to be correct. ~ Benjamin Disraeli, 1804-1881 |
|
|
|
Monte Single
Hi List,
I just had a look at section 9 of the user guide dealing with visual highlight.
Once in a while I want to show a visitor something on the screen; usually it’s a webpage with a lot of links, like amazon or a grocery store flyer. I navigate to the item I want them to see and they sometimes say they do not see it. Will the “visual highlight” feature fix this?
Thanks for all,
Mont |
|
|
|
Gene
My guess is that if you want to show someone a page, the only way to
have them see the page as they would normally see it is to turn off
browse mode or, in the case of JAWS, the Virtual PC cursor, both
names for the same thing. My understanding is that browse mode
changes the way web pages look on screen.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Others may comment on focus highlight regarding your question but I don't think it is relevant. You want the person to see the page as they normally would, not see where NVDA is positioned on the page. Gene On 1/31/2023 6:48 AM, Monte Single
wrote:
|
|
|
|
On Tue, Jan 31, 2023 at 07:49 AM, Monte Single wrote:
Will the “visual highlight” feature fix this?- Yes. The main reason I use it is because it keeps what's shown on the screen synchronized with where the screen reader has focus in the virtual buffer. While I understand that this is often a non-issue for the actual user of a screen reader, I still think one of the secondary purposes of a screen reader is to allow collaboration between blind and sighted when doing computer work. Without this synchrony, which is the default state, within mere moments the sighted person will have absolutely no idea what's being worked on. When vision is your primary sense for working with something, and anything text based will (for a sighted person) rely primarily on vision, not having the text on screen match up with the text the screen reader has focus on is instantly disorienting. The sighted person will not necessarily care one whit about the screen reader states that the actual visual highlighting box communicates but they absolutely do care that they are "on the same page" as you are. -- Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 11 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 22621; Office 2016, Version 16.0.15726.20188, 32-bit It is much easier to be critical than to be correct. ~ Benjamin Disraeli, 1804-1881 |
|
|
|
On Tue, Jan 31, 2023 at 07:55 AM, Gene wrote:
My understanding is that browse mode changes the way web pages look on screen.- It does not. Screen readers have never, ever, in my now extensive experience, had any ability to change how things are presented on screen beyond focus highlighting. They'd make very poor collaboration tools if they could. -- Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 11 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 22621; Office 2016, Version 16.0.15726.20188, 32-bit It is much easier to be critical than to be correct. ~ Benjamin Disraeli, 1804-1881 |
|
|
|
On Tue, Jan 31, 2023 at 07:55 AM, Gene wrote:
You want the person to see the page as they normally would, not see where NVDA is positioned on the page.- Indeed you do. And no screen reader modifies the on-screen display of content. Focus highlight simply throws an indicator around whatever it is on the screen that has focus at that time in the virtual buffer. Other than that, appearance is completely unchanged. A sighted collaborator could not collaborate if significant changes to content "as most of the world sees it" were part and parcel of having a screen reader (any of them) involved. I would have been happy in the early days of my working with JAWS had there only been some effort to keep what showed on the screen congruent with where the screen reader was positioned in the virtual buffer that was created from that screen content. As things were (and still are, unless you turn on focus highlight or its analogs) the screen reader user can be jumping around wildly, and to content that is not currently shown on-screen. That's impossible for a sighted person to follow every bit as much as it would be for a screen reader user to work strictly based on visually-based cues. You've got to have presentation that allows both to work on the same thing at the same time. -- Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 11 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 22621; Office 2016, Version 16.0.15726.20188, 32-bit It is much easier to be critical than to be correct. ~ Benjamin Disraeli, 1804-1881 |
|
|
|
Gene
I was told by a friend that a sighted person couldn't move down the
screen when browse mode was on. Actually, it was the Virtual PC
cursor, which is the same thing. So while the screen looked the
same by what you say, if a blind person moves down or lets the
screen-reader read, does what is on screen change?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Gene On 1/31/2023 10:06 AM, Brian Vogel
wrote:
On Tue, Jan 31, 2023 at 07:55 AM, Gene wrote: |
|
|
|
Gene
On further thought, I hadn't realized the screen is unchanged when
using Browse mode. While I didn't know if it was, I thought it
might be changed because it might be showing the content of the
virtual buffer. But according to your discussion, it still shows
the underlying page.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
So my comments about focus highlight and the screen were incorrect on that point. My other comment isn't related to that, but I think it may be useful for times when sighted people are using a machine with a screen-reader active. As I understand it, when in a program using browse mode, the screen-reader should be off because the sighted user won't be able to move around the screen as he/she usually does. Gene On 1/31/2023 11:30 AM, Gene wrote: I was told by a friend that a sighted person couldn't move down the screen when browse mode was on. Actually, it was the Virtual PC cursor, which is the same thing. So while the screen looked the same by what you say, if a blind person moves down or lets the screen-reader read, does what is on screen change? |
|
|
|
On Tue, Jan 31, 2023 at 12:30 PM, Gene wrote:
So while the screen looked the same by what you say, if a blind person moves down or lets the screen-reader read, does what is on screen change?- Gene, The answer to that question is, "Yes, if visual highlight is on." I do not know of any screen reader, including NVDA, that has a setting that allows screen synchronization to occur without some sort of visual highlighting in relation to what the screen reader has focus on at the same time. You either have this function (or its equivalent in other screen readers on) or no attempt is made to synchronize what's shown on the screen with where the screen reader is located in the virtual buffer. Coincidentally, I have always observed that actual mouse use/point and click, forces the screen reader to follow it rather than the other way around. I often use this technique when "time is of the essence" during training and the mechanics of getting from point A to point B are not the focus. When there is time to make the trainee do all navigation themselves, that's what I do, but if I need to jump elsewhere I just grab the mouse and do "that mousing thing" then point and click where I want all focus to go, and it invariably does. -- Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 11 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 22621; Office 2016, Version 16.0.15726.20188, 32-bit It is much easier to be critical than to be correct. ~ Benjamin Disraeli, 1804-1881 |
|
|
|
Quentin Christensen
The issue with being unable to move down the screen with a screen reader (any) running, is because NVDA (and from memory, Jaws), will, when you press the down arrow, move the focus down one line. This is exactly what you want when reading with a screen reader. However, without a screen reader running, what some sighted users are used to, is that you can press the down arrow and the screen will scroll down by a line - hence, feeling "stuck". You can scroll with the mouse, which will visually move the screen, although if you want to navigate the computer visually like that, then you likely want to either quit NVDA or at least put it in sleep mode while the sighted user is reading. On Wed, Feb 1, 2023 at 4:57 AM Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote: On Tue, Jan 31, 2023 at 12:30 PM, Gene wrote: --
Quentin Christensen Training and Support Manager Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/ Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/ User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess Twitter: @NVAccess |
|
|
|
Quentin,
Interesting. We think about what we do most, for the most part. I can't say I never scroll using arrow keys, but it's incredibly seldom. If I have a mouse or trackball with a scroll wheel, that gets used first. If I have a laptop, I generally configure chiral scrolling on the touchpad. If I have a plain mouse it's generally grab the scrollbar, and go. But you're right, if you had an "arrow key scroller" the screen reader would frustrate them. -- Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 11 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 22621; Office 2016, Version 16.0.15726.20188, 32-bit It is much easier to be critical than to be correct. ~ Benjamin Disraeli, 1804-1881 |
|
|