Hi all, brand new to the list.

I've tried moving from Jaws to NVDA several times the past several years, but I am now determined to do so after seeing the performance contrast between the two screen readers while developing some new audio games. Also, the usual litany of complaints about cost versus improvement for JFW etc.

I have donated to the cause financially and have some experience with NVDA, as I use it when making audio with Reaper. I consider myself a fairly decent user of NVDA, but one huge hangup I have is the find function. I use this a lot on web sites, and while I know some issues with the transition is muscle memory, I don't understand the complexity of the way NVDA does this versus Jaws.

With Jaws, I can simply hit control f to find a word on a page, and it jumps right there if found. If I want to find the next instance, I just hit f3, simple. With NVDA I have to add the NVDA key to the control f sequence, fair enough. But then every time I do a search or try to repeat a search it pulls up a diologue box. Why?
Is there an add on that makes this process more efficient or a setting I am not aware of? I just want to be able to hit a keyboard command, type in a word to find, and jump there. Bang, done.

Also, I did attempt to search the list archives for answers to this first, but didn't find a relevant match, though admittedtly, I didn't look more than ten minutes, as the find feature to see if there was a match was getting on my nerves, hah! Classic catch 22.

Any help with this would be greatly appreciated. It may seem a simple thing, but as much as I use the find function, surely this can be or has been improved and I am just missing a setting or add on.

Have a peaceful one.
Ché Martin
Owner Blind Adrenaline Simulations

Hi all, brand new to the list.

I've tried moving from Jaws to NVDA several times the past several years, but I am now determined to do so after seeing the performance contrast between the two screen readers while developing some new audio games. Also, the usual litany of complaints about cost versus improvement for JFW etc.

I have donated to the cause financially and have some experience with NVDA, as I use it when making audio with Reaper. I consider myself a fairly decent user of NVDA, but one huge hangup I have is the find function. I use this a lot on web sites, and while I know some issues with the transition is muscle memory, I don't understand the complexity of the way NVDA does this versus Jaws.

With Jaws, I can simply hit control f to find a word on a page, and it jumps right there if found. If I want to find the next instance, I just hit f3, simple. With NVDA I have to add the NVDA key to the control f sequence, fair enough. But then every time I do a search or try to repeat a search it pulls up a diologue box. Why?
Is there an add on that makes this process more efficient or a setting I am not aware of? I just want to be able to hit a keyboard command, type in a word to find, and jump there. Bang, done.

Also, I did attempt to search the list archives for answers to this first, but didn't find a relevant match, though admittedtly, I didn't look more than ten minutes, as the find feature to see if there was a match was getting on my nerves, hah! Classic catch 22.

Any help with this would be greatly appreciated. It may seem a simple thing, but as much as I use the find function, surely this can be or has been improved and I am just missing a setting or add on.

Have a peaceful one.
Ché Martin
Owner Blind Adrenaline Simulations

Hi all, brand new to the list.

I've tried moving from Jaws to NVDA several times the past several years, but I am now determined to do so after seeing the performance contrast between the two screen readers while developing some new audio games. Also, the usual litany of complaints about cost versus improvement for JFW etc.

I have donated to the cause financially and have some experience with NVDA, as I use it when making audio with Reaper. I consider myself a fairly decent user of NVDA, but one huge hangup I have is the find function. I use this a lot on web sites, and while I know some issues with the transition is muscle memory, I don't understand the complexity of the way NVDA does this versus Jaws.

With Jaws, I can simply hit control f to find a word on a page, and it jumps right there if found. If I want to find the next instance, I just hit f3, simple. With NVDA I have to add the NVDA key to the control f sequence, fair enough. But then every time I do a search or try to repeat a search it pulls up a diologue box. Why?

Is there an add on that makes this process more efficient or a setting I am not aware of? I just want to be able to hit a keyboard command, type in a word to find, and jump there. Bang, done.

Also, I did attempt to search the list archives for answers to this first, but didn't find a relevant match, though admittedtly, I didn't look more than ten minutes, as the find feature to see if there was a match was getting on my nerves, hah! Classic catch 22.

Any help with this would be greatly appreciated. It may seem a simple thing, but as much as I use the find function, surely this can be or has been improved and I am just missing a setting or add on.

Have a peaceful one.
Ché Martin
Owner Blind Adrenaline Simulations

On Mon, Jan 30, 2023 at 05:21 PM, Che Martin wrote:

With Jaws, I can simply hit control f to find a word on a page, and it jumps right there if found. If I want to find the next instance, I just hit f3, simple. With NVDA I have to add the NVDA key to the control f sequence, fair enough. But then every time I do a search or try to repeat a search it pulls up a diologue box. Why?

-
Ché,

Welcome to the NVDA users group.  You'll find a lot of assistance here.

I would need to play with JAWS, and on the precise page and searching for the same thing you do, but I have never noticed any significant difference between how each respective screen reader's find function works.

In general, hitting just CTRL + F on a given webpage does not invoke the screen reader find at all, but the native browser find, which functions differently, and separately.  But I have seen instances where both JAWS and NVDA invoke their own screen reader find rather than the browser find, and I have yet to get clear in my head why that there is sometimes a screen reader choice of using the screen reader find rather than just letting the browser find occur.  

The reason I ask about specifics is it could be that JAWS is not "secretly invoking" its screen reader find in a given circumstance while NVDA is.  I believe in using simple test cases to try to determine what's actually going on.

Typically, F3 is find next for the browser, too, and if you wanted screen reader find next you would need the JAWS/NVDA key + F3.

Can you please give a step-by-step example for a specific webpage giving the exact procedure you're using for JAWS versus NVDA if there is any variance in the procedure.  Also, what's happening at the end of each step when JAWS is in use versus NVDA.  Knowing the browser you're using is important, too.
--

Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 11 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 22621; Office 2016, Version 16.0.15726.20188, 32-bit

It is much easier to be critical than to be correct.

       ~ Benjamin Disraeli, 1804-1881

In JAWS, just pressing control f invokes virtual find, not the browser find.  It is programmed to do this when in the Virtual PC cursor.
When in NVDA, control f invokes the browser find which is not intended to be used when in browse mode.  You are searching the underlying web page with control f when using NVDA and search doesn't work as expected.

When you use control NVDA f in NVDA, you are invoking the browse mode search which searches the browse mode buffer version of the page and moves you to found text, if there is any.  It moves the browse mode virtual cursor.  This is the same as JAWS virtual find.

But JAWS doesn't even give you the chance to mistakenly use the application find.  It doesn't use it, as I said, when you issue control f.  You can hear this because when you use control f in JAWS, it announces virtual find.

Gene

On Mon, Jan 30, 2023 at 05:21 PM, Che Martin wrote:

With Jaws, I can simply hit control f to find a word on a page, and it jumps right there if found. If I want to find the next instance, I just hit f3, simple. With NVDA I have to add the NVDA key to the control f sequence, fair enough. But then every time I do a search or try to repeat a search it pulls up a diologue box. Why?

-
Ché,

Welcome to the NVDA users group.  You'll find a lot of assistance here.

I would need to play with JAWS, and on the precise page and searching for the same thing you do, but I have never noticed any significant difference between how each respective screen reader's find function works.

In general, hitting just CTRL + F on a given webpage does not invoke the screen reader find at all, but the native browser find, which functions differently, and separately.  But I have seen instances where both JAWS and NVDA invoke their own screen reader find rather than the browser find, and I have yet to get clear in my head why that there is sometimes a screen reader choice of using the screen reader find rather than just letting the browser find occur.  

The reason I ask about specifics is it could be that JAWS is not "secretly invoking" its screen reader find in a given circumstance while NVDA is.  I believe in using simple test cases to try to determine what's actually going on.

Typically, F3 is find next for the browser, too, and if you wanted screen reader find next you would need the JAWS/NVDA key + F3.

Can you please give a step-by-step example for a specific webpage giving the exact procedure you're using for JAWS versus NVDA if there is any variance in the procedure.  Also, what's happening at the end of each step when JAWS is in use versus NVDA.  Knowing the browser you're using is important, too.
--

Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 11 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 22621; Office 2016, Version 16.0.15726.20188, 32-bit

It is much easier to be critical than to be correct.

       ~ Benjamin Disraeli, 1804-1881

In JAWS, just pressing control f invokes virtual find, not the browser find.  It is programmed to do this when in the Virtual PC cursor.
When in NVDA, control f invokes the browser find which is not intended to be used when in browse mode.  You are searching the underlying web page with control f when using NVDA and search doesn't work as expected.

When you use control NVDA f in NVDA, you are invoking the browse mode search which searches the browse mode buffer version of the page and moves you to found text, if there is any.  It moves the browse mode virtual cursor.  This is the same as JAWS virtual find.

But JAWS doesn't even give you the chance to mistakenly use the application find.  It doesn't use it, as I said, when you issue control f.  You can hear this because when you use control f in JAWS, it announces virtual find.

Gene

On Mon, Jan 30, 2023 at 05:21 PM, Che Martin wrote:

With Jaws, I can simply hit control f to find a word on a page, and it jumps right there if found. If I want to find the next instance, I just hit f3, simple. With NVDA I have to add the NVDA key to the control f sequence, fair enough. But then every time I do a search or try to repeat a search it pulls up a diologue box. Why?

-
Ché,

Welcome to the NVDA users group.  You'll find a lot of assistance here.

I would need to play with JAWS, and on the precise page and searching for the same thing you do, but I have never noticed any significant difference between how each respective screen reader's find function works.

In general, hitting just CTRL + F on a given webpage does not invoke the screen reader find at all, but the native browser find, which functions differently, and separately.  But I have seen instances where both JAWS and NVDA invoke their own screen reader find rather than the browser find, and I have yet to get clear in my head why that there is sometimes a screen reader choice of using the screen reader find rather than just letting the browser find occur.  

The reason I ask about specifics is it could be that JAWS is not "secretly invoking" its screen reader find in a given circumstance while NVDA is.  I believe in using simple test cases to try to determine what's actually going on.

Typically, F3 is find next for the browser, too, and if you wanted screen reader find next you would need the JAWS/NVDA key + F3.

Can you please give a step-by-step example for a specific webpage giving the exact procedure you're using for JAWS versus NVDA if there is any variance in the procedure.  Also, what's happening at the end of each step when JAWS is in use versus NVDA.  Knowing the browser you're using is important, too.
--

Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 11 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 22621; Office 2016, Version 16.0.15726.20188, 32-bit

It is much easier to be critical than to be correct.

       ~ Benjamin Disraeli, 1804-1881

In my case I have to hit escape after hitting f3 as the curser will not auto jump there. I:

 

• hit control F
• ]type in my term
• Hit enter
• Hit escape
• Hit f3
• The dialogue comes up with what I had typed before
• I then hit enter and then escape.

 

The curser will jump there no problem, it’s just one extra step for me. I kind of like it as I get to hear how many results are on a page.

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2023 2:42 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Making the transition from JAWS - Differences with each screen reader's Find Command

 

In JAWS, just pressing control f invokes virtual find, not the browser find.  It is programmed to do this when in the Virtual PC cursor.
When in NVDA, control f invokes the browser find which is not intended to be used when in browse mode.  You are searching the underlying web page with control f when using NVDA and search doesn't work as expected.

When you use control NVDA f in NVDA, you are invoking the browse mode search which searches the browse mode buffer version of the page and moves you to found text, if there is any.  It moves the browse mode virtual cursor.  This is the same as JAWS virtual find.

But JAWS doesn't even give you the chance to mistakenly use the application find.  It doesn't use it, as I said, when you issue control f.  You can hear this because when you use control f in JAWS, it announces virtual find.

Gene

On 1/30/2023 4:28 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Mon, Jan 30, 2023 at 05:21 PM, Che Martin wrote:

With Jaws, I can simply hit control f to find a word on a page, and it jumps right there if found. If I want to find the next instance, I just hit f3, simple. With NVDA I have to add the NVDA key to the control f sequence, fair enough. But then every time I do a search or try to repeat a search it pulls up a diologue box. Why?

-
Ché,

Welcome to the NVDA users group.  You'll find a lot of assistance here.

I would need to play with JAWS, and on the precise page and searching for the same thing you do, but I have never noticed any significant difference between how each respective screen reader's find function works.

In general, hitting just CTRL + F on a given webpage does not invoke the screen reader find at all, but the native browser find, which functions differently, and separately.  But I have seen instances where both JAWS and NVDA invoke their own screen reader find rather than the browser find, and I have yet to get clear in my head why that there is sometimes a screen reader choice of using the screen reader find rather than just letting the browser find occur.  

The reason I ask about specifics is it could be that JAWS is not "secretly invoking" its screen reader find in a given circumstance while NVDA is.  I believe in using simple test cases to try to determine what's actually going on.

Typically, F3 is find next for the browser, too, and if you wanted screen reader find next you would need the JAWS/NVDA key + F3.

Can you please give a step-by-step example for a specific webpage giving the exact procedure you're using for JAWS versus NVDA if there is any variance in the procedure.  Also, what's happening at the end of each step when JAWS is in use versus NVDA.  Knowing the browser you're using is important, too.
--

Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 11 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 22621; Office 2016, Version 16.0.15726.20188, 32-bit

It is much easier to be critical than to be correct.

       ~ Benjamin Disraeli, 1804-1881

 

--
----------

Sarah Alawami, owner of flying Blind.  Visit my website to read my story. 

Windows 11 22H2 (x64) build 22621.963

NVDA Version: 2022.3.3

Microsoft 365 MSO (Version 2211 Build 16.0.15831.20098) 64-bit 

Correction to my steps:

 

• Hit f3
• Type in the term
• Hit enter
• Hit escape, the curser will be on the line where the term is. If finding the next of that term, then:
• Hit f3
• Hit escape.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2023 2:42 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Making the transition from JAWS - Differences with each screen reader's Find Command

 

In JAWS, just pressing control f invokes virtual find, not the browser find.  It is programmed to do this when in the Virtual PC cursor.
When in NVDA, control f invokes the browser find which is not intended to be used when in browse mode.  You are searching the underlying web page with control f when using NVDA and search doesn't work as expected.

When you use control NVDA f in NVDA, you are invoking the browse mode search which searches the browse mode buffer version of the page and moves you to found text, if there is any.  It moves the browse mode virtual cursor.  This is the same as JAWS virtual find.

But JAWS doesn't even give you the chance to mistakenly use the application find.  It doesn't use it, as I said, when you issue control f.  You can hear this because when you use control f in JAWS, it announces virtual find.

Gene

On 1/30/2023 4:28 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Mon, Jan 30, 2023 at 05:21 PM, Che Martin wrote:

With Jaws, I can simply hit control f to find a word on a page, and it jumps right there if found. If I want to find the next instance, I just hit f3, simple. With NVDA I have to add the NVDA key to the control f sequence, fair enough. But then every time I do a search or try to repeat a search it pulls up a diologue box. Why?

-
Ché,

Welcome to the NVDA users group.  You'll find a lot of assistance here.

I would need to play with JAWS, and on the precise page and searching for the same thing you do, but I have never noticed any significant difference between how each respective screen reader's find function works.

In general, hitting just CTRL + F on a given webpage does not invoke the screen reader find at all, but the native browser find, which functions differently, and separately.  But I have seen instances where both JAWS and NVDA invoke their own screen reader find rather than the browser find, and I have yet to get clear in my head why that there is sometimes a screen reader choice of using the screen reader find rather than just letting the browser find occur.  

The reason I ask about specifics is it could be that JAWS is not "secretly invoking" its screen reader find in a given circumstance while NVDA is.  I believe in using simple test cases to try to determine what's actually going on.

Typically, F3 is find next for the browser, too, and if you wanted screen reader find next you would need the JAWS/NVDA key + F3.

Can you please give a step-by-step example for a specific webpage giving the exact procedure you're using for JAWS versus NVDA if there is any variance in the procedure.  Also, what's happening at the end of each step when JAWS is in use versus NVDA.  Knowing the browser you're using is important, too.
--

Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 11 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 22621; Office 2016, Version 16.0.15726.20188, 32-bit

It is much easier to be critical than to be correct.

       ~ Benjamin Disraeli, 1804-1881

 

--
----------

Sarah Alawami, owner of flying Blind.  Visit my website to read my story. 

Windows 11 22H2 (x64) build 22621.963

NVDA Version: 2022.3.3

Microsoft 365 MSO (Version 2211 Build 16.0.15831.20098) 64-bit 

That's a really convoluted way of finding material, requiring four or five commands instead of one.  If you want to use it, of course, that's your choice but it isn't the intended method.

Gene

On 1/30/2023 4:45 PM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

In my case I have to hit escape after hitting f3 as the curser will not auto jump there. I:

 

• hit control F
• ]type in my term
• Hit enter
• Hit escape
• Hit f3
• The dialogue comes up with what I had typed before
• I then hit enter and then escape.

 

The curser will jump there no problem, it’s just one extra step for me. I kind of like it as I get to hear how many results are on a page.

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2023 2:42 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Making the transition from JAWS - Differences with each screen reader's Find Command

 

In JAWS, just pressing control f invokes virtual find, not the browser find.  It is programmed to do this when in the Virtual PC cursor.
When in NVDA, control f invokes the browser find which is not intended to be used when in browse mode.  You are searching the underlying web page with control f when using NVDA and search doesn't work as expected.

When you use control NVDA f in NVDA, you are invoking the browse mode search which searches the browse mode buffer version of the page and moves you to found text, if there is any.  It moves the browse mode virtual cursor.  This is the same as JAWS virtual find.

But JAWS doesn't even give you the chance to mistakenly use the application find.  It doesn't use it, as I said, when you issue control f.  You can hear this because when you use control f in JAWS, it announces virtual find.

Gene

On 1/30/2023 4:28 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Mon, Jan 30, 2023 at 05:21 PM, Che Martin wrote:

With Jaws, I can simply hit control f to find a word on a page, and it jumps right there if found. If I want to find the next instance, I just hit f3, simple. With NVDA I have to add the NVDA key to the control f sequence, fair enough. But then every time I do a search or try to repeat a search it pulls up a diologue box. Why?

-
Ché,

Welcome to the NVDA users group.  You'll find a lot of assistance here.

I would need to play with JAWS, and on the precise page and searching for the same thing you do, but I have never noticed any significant difference between how each respective screen reader's find function works.

In general, hitting just CTRL + F on a given webpage does not invoke the screen reader find at all, but the native browser find, which functions differently, and separately.  But I have seen instances where both JAWS and NVDA invoke their own screen reader find rather than the browser find, and I have yet to get clear in my head why that there is sometimes a screen reader choice of using the screen reader find rather than just letting the browser find occur.  

The reason I ask about specifics is it could be that JAWS is not "secretly invoking" its screen reader find in a given circumstance while NVDA is.  I believe in using simple test cases to try to determine what's actually going on.

Typically, F3 is find next for the browser, too, and if you wanted screen reader find next you would need the JAWS/NVDA key + F3.

Can you please give a step-by-step example for a specific webpage giving the exact procedure you're using for JAWS versus NVDA if there is any variance in the procedure.  Also, what's happening at the end of each step when JAWS is in use versus NVDA.  Knowing the browser you're using is important, too.
--

Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 11 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 22621; Office 2016, Version 16.0.15726.20188, 32-bit

It is much easier to be critical than to be correct.

       ~ Benjamin Disraeli, 1804-1881

 

--
----------

Sarah Alawami, owner of flying Blind.  Visit my website to read my story. 

Windows 11 22H2 (x64) build 22621.963

NVDA Version: 2022.3.3

Microsoft 365 MSO (Version 2211 Build 16.0.15831.20098) 64-bit 

That's a really convoluted way of finding material, requiring four or five commands instead of one.  If you want to use it, of course, that's your choice but it isn't the intended method.

Gene

In my case I have to hit escape after hitting f3 as the curser will not auto jump there. I:

 

• hit control F
• ]type in my term
• Hit enter
• Hit escape
• Hit f3
• The dialogue comes up with what I had typed before
• I then hit enter and then escape.

 

The curser will jump there no problem, it’s just one extra step for me. I kind of like it as I get to hear how many results are on a page.

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2023 2:42 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Making the transition from JAWS - Differences with each screen reader's Find Command

 

In JAWS, just pressing control f invokes virtual find, not the browser find.  It is programmed to do this when in the Virtual PC cursor.
When in NVDA, control f invokes the browser find which is not intended to be used when in browse mode.  You are searching the underlying web page with control f when using NVDA and search doesn't work as expected.

When you use control NVDA f in NVDA, you are invoking the browse mode search which searches the browse mode buffer version of the page and moves you to found text, if there is any.  It moves the browse mode virtual cursor.  This is the same as JAWS virtual find.

But JAWS doesn't even give you the chance to mistakenly use the application find.  It doesn't use it, as I said, when you issue control f.  You can hear this because when you use control f in JAWS, it announces virtual find.

Gene

On 1/30/2023 4:28 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Mon, Jan 30, 2023 at 05:21 PM, Che Martin wrote:

With Jaws, I can simply hit control f to find a word on a page, and it jumps right there if found. If I want to find the next instance, I just hit f3, simple. With NVDA I have to add the NVDA key to the control f sequence, fair enough. But then every time I do a search or try to repeat a search it pulls up a diologue box. Why?

-
Ché,

Welcome to the NVDA users group.  You'll find a lot of assistance here.

I would need to play with JAWS, and on the precise page and searching for the same thing you do, but I have never noticed any significant difference between how each respective screen reader's find function works.

In general, hitting just CTRL + F on a given webpage does not invoke the screen reader find at all, but the native browser find, which functions differently, and separately.  But I have seen instances where both JAWS and NVDA invoke their own screen reader find rather than the browser find, and I have yet to get clear in my head why that there is sometimes a screen reader choice of using the screen reader find rather than just letting the browser find occur.  

The reason I ask about specifics is it could be that JAWS is not "secretly invoking" its screen reader find in a given circumstance while NVDA is.  I believe in using simple test cases to try to determine what's actually going on.

Typically, F3 is find next for the browser, too, and if you wanted screen reader find next you would need the JAWS/NVDA key + F3.

Can you please give a step-by-step example for a specific webpage giving the exact procedure you're using for JAWS versus NVDA if there is any variance in the procedure.  Also, what's happening at the end of each step when JAWS is in use versus NVDA.  Knowing the browser you're using is important, too.
--

Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 11 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 22621; Office 2016, Version 16.0.15726.20188, 32-bit

It is much easier to be critical than to be correct.

       ~ Benjamin Disraeli, 1804-1881

 

--
----------

Sarah Alawami, owner of flying Blind.  Visit my website to read my story. 

Windows 11 22H2 (x64) build 22621.963

NVDA Version: 2022.3.3

Microsoft 365 MSO (Version 2211 Build 16.0.15831.20098) 64-bit 

Yeah, but he's using the application's find function, not the nvda one.  I do that too.

On 1/30/2023 5:48 PM, Gene wrote:

That's a really convoluted way of finding material, requiring four or five commands instead of one.  If you want to use it, of course, that's your choice but it isn't the intended method.

Gene

On 1/30/2023 4:45 PM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

In my case I have to hit escape after hitting f3 as the curser will not auto jump there. I:

 

• hit control F
• ]type in my term
• Hit enter
• Hit escape
• Hit f3
• The dialogue comes up with what I had typed before
• I then hit enter and then escape.

 

The curser will jump there no problem, it’s just one extra step for me. I kind of like it as I get to hear how many results are on a page.

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2023 2:42 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Making the transition from JAWS - Differences with each screen reader's Find Command

 

In JAWS, just pressing control f invokes virtual find, not the browser find.  It is programmed to do this when in the Virtual PC cursor.
When in NVDA, control f invokes the browser find which is not intended to be used when in browse mode.  You are searching the underlying web page with control f when using NVDA and search doesn't work as expected.

When you use control NVDA f in NVDA, you are invoking the browse mode search which searches the browse mode buffer version of the page and moves you to found text, if there is any.  It moves the browse mode virtual cursor.  This is the same as JAWS virtual find.

But JAWS doesn't even give you the chance to mistakenly use the application find.  It doesn't use it, as I said, when you issue control f.  You can hear this because when you use control f in JAWS, it announces virtual find.

Gene

On 1/30/2023 4:28 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Mon, Jan 30, 2023 at 05:21 PM, Che Martin wrote:

With Jaws, I can simply hit control f to find a word on a page, and it jumps right there if found. If I want to find the next instance, I just hit f3, simple. With NVDA I have to add the NVDA key to the control f sequence, fair enough. But then every time I do a search or try to repeat a search it pulls up a diologue box. Why?

-
Ché,

Welcome to the NVDA users group.  You'll find a lot of assistance here.

I would need to play with JAWS, and on the precise page and searching for the same thing you do, but I have never noticed any significant difference between how each respective screen reader's find function works.

In general, hitting just CTRL + F on a given webpage does not invoke the screen reader find at all, but the native browser find, which functions differently, and separately.  But I have seen instances where both JAWS and NVDA invoke their own screen reader find rather than the browser find, and I have yet to get clear in my head why that there is sometimes a screen reader choice of using the screen reader find rather than just letting the browser find occur.  

The reason I ask about specifics is it could be that JAWS is not "secretly invoking" its screen reader find in a given circumstance while NVDA is.  I believe in using simple test cases to try to determine what's actually going on.

Typically, F3 is find next for the browser, too, and if you wanted screen reader find next you would need the JAWS/NVDA key + F3.

Can you please give a step-by-step example for a specific webpage giving the exact procedure you're using for JAWS versus NVDA if there is any variance in the procedure.  Also, what's happening at the end of each step when JAWS is in use versus NVDA.  Knowing the browser you're using is important, too.
--

Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 11 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 22621; Office 2016, Version 16.0.15726.20188, 32-bit

It is much easier to be critical than to be correct.

       ~ Benjamin Disraeli, 1804-1881

 

--
----------

Sarah Alawami, owner of flying Blind.  Visit my website to read my story. 

Windows 11 22H2 (x64) build 22621.963

NVDA Version: 2022.3.3

Microsoft 365 MSO (Version 2211 Build 16.0.15831.20098) 64-bit 

Wow, lots of quick responses to this one, thanks for the info all.

So here is a specific use case that  I just tested on both Edge and Chrome with both screen readers:

 

Go to ESPN.com

 

We want to jump right to headlines.

I try control f with NVDA, type in headlines, hit enter then escape, but it doesn’t jump.

I then do control NVDA F, type in headlines, hit enter, and it jumps, same as jaws does with control f.

 

If I need to find the next instance of of a word, in Jaws I just hit f3 and it is there.

In NVDA, I hit NVDA f3, it comes up with a dialogue I have to dismiss.

The browser find with control f seems to be useless in this circumstance with NVDA, unless I am missing something, since it does not jump.

So yes, I can make this work, but why the extra key, and why the extra dialogues?

Basically, is there a setting or add on, so I can simply do control F with NVDA and get the same easy functionality?

I know NVDA does things differently, and because of that it also does things faster for the most part, so if I have to live with this minor annoyance, so be it, but it seems like it is a minor annoyance that would take a really minor amount of work to fix, or at least have an option to execute it more efficiently in NVDA.

Thanks all for the input.

Ché

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2023 4:49 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Making the transition from JAWS - Differences with each screen reader's Find Command

 

That's a really convoluted way of finding material, requiring four or five commands instead of one.  If you want to use it, of course, that's your choice but it isn't the intended method.

Gene

On 1/30/2023 4:45 PM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

In my case I have to hit escape after hitting f3 as the curser will not auto jump there. I:

 

• hit control F
• ]type in my term
• Hit enter
• Hit escape
• Hit f3
• The dialogue comes up with what I had typed before
• I then hit enter and then escape.

 

The curser will jump there no problem, it’s just one extra step for me. I kind of like it as I get to hear how many results are on a page.

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2023 2:42 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Making the transition from JAWS - Differences with each screen reader's Find Command

 

In JAWS, just pressing control f invokes virtual find, not the browser find.  It is programmed to do this when in the Virtual PC cursor.
When in NVDA, control f invokes the browser find which is not intended to be used when in browse mode.  You are searching the underlying web page with control f when using NVDA and search doesn't work as expected.

When you use control NVDA f in NVDA, you are invoking the browse mode search which searches the browse mode buffer version of the page and moves you to found text, if there is any.  It moves the browse mode virtual cursor.  This is the same as JAWS virtual find.

But JAWS doesn't even give you the chance to mistakenly use the application find.  It doesn't use it, as I said, when you issue control f.  You can hear this because when you use control f in JAWS, it announces virtual find.

Gene

On 1/30/2023 4:28 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Mon, Jan 30, 2023 at 05:21 PM, Che Martin wrote:

With Jaws, I can simply hit control f to find a word on a page, and it jumps right there if found. If I want to find the next instance, I just hit f3, simple. With NVDA I have to add the NVDA key to the control f sequence, fair enough. But then every time I do a search or try to repeat a search it pulls up a diologue box. Why?

-
Ché,

Welcome to the NVDA users group.  You'll find a lot of assistance here.

I would need to play with JAWS, and on the precise page and searching for the same thing you do, but I have never noticed any significant difference between how each respective screen reader's find function works.

In general, hitting just CTRL + F on a given webpage does not invoke the screen reader find at all, but the native browser find, which functions differently, and separately.  But I have seen instances where both JAWS and NVDA invoke their own screen reader find rather than the browser find, and I have yet to get clear in my head why that there is sometimes a screen reader choice of using the screen reader find rather than just letting the browser find occur.  

The reason I ask about specifics is it could be that JAWS is not "secretly invoking" its screen reader find in a given circumstance while NVDA is.  I believe in using simple test cases to try to determine what's actually going on.

Typically, F3 is find next for the browser, too, and if you wanted screen reader find next you would need the JAWS/NVDA key + F3.

Can you please give a step-by-step example for a specific webpage giving the exact procedure you're using for JAWS versus NVDA if there is any variance in the procedure.  Also, what's happening at the end of each step when JAWS is in use versus NVDA.  Knowing the browser you're using is important, too.
--

Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 11 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 22621; Office 2016, Version 16.0.15726.20188, 32-bit

It is much easier to be critical than to be correct.

       ~ Benjamin Disraeli, 1804-1881

 

--
----------

Sarah Alawami, owner of flying Blind.  Visit my website to read my story. 

Windows 11 22H2 (x64) build 22621.963

NVDA Version: 2022.3.3

Microsoft 365 MSO (Version 2211 Build 16.0.15831.20098) 64-bit 

 

Using the application find in NVDA browse mode is not the documented way to find text. 

Gene

Yeah, but he's using the application's find function, not the nvda one.  I do that too.

 

On 1/30/2023 5:48 PM, Gene wrote:

That's a really convoluted way of finding material, requiring four or five commands instead of one.  If you want to use it, of course, that's your choice but it isn't the intended method.

Gene

On 1/30/2023 4:45 PM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

In my case I have to hit escape after hitting f3 as the curser will not auto jump there. I:

 

• hit control F
• ]type in my term
• Hit enter
• Hit escape
• Hit f3
• The dialogue comes up with what I had typed before
• I then hit enter and then escape.

 

The curser will jump there no problem, it’s just one extra step for me. I kind of like it as I get to hear how many results are on a page.

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2023 2:42 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Making the transition from JAWS - Differences with each screen reader's Find Command

 

In JAWS, just pressing control f invokes virtual find, not the browser find.  It is programmed to do this when in the Virtual PC cursor.
When in NVDA, control f invokes the browser find which is not intended to be used when in browse mode.  You are searching the underlying web page with control f when using NVDA and search doesn't work as expected.

When you use control NVDA f in NVDA, you are invoking the browse mode search which searches the browse mode buffer version of the page and moves you to found text, if there is any.  It moves the browse mode virtual cursor.  This is the same as JAWS virtual find.

But JAWS doesn't even give you the chance to mistakenly use the application find.  It doesn't use it, as I said, when you issue control f.  You can hear this because when you use control f in JAWS, it announces virtual find.

Gene

On 1/30/2023 4:28 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Mon, Jan 30, 2023 at 05:21 PM, Che Martin wrote:

With Jaws, I can simply hit control f to find a word on a page, and it jumps right there if found. If I want to find the next instance, I just hit f3, simple. With NVDA I have to add the NVDA key to the control f sequence, fair enough. But then every time I do a search or try to repeat a search it pulls up a diologue box. Why?

-
Ché,

Welcome to the NVDA users group.  You'll find a lot of assistance here.

I would need to play with JAWS, and on the precise page and searching for the same thing you do, but I have never noticed any significant difference between how each respective screen reader's find function works.

In general, hitting just CTRL + F on a given webpage does not invoke the screen reader find at all, but the native browser find, which functions differently, and separately.  But I have seen instances where both JAWS and NVDA invoke their own screen reader find rather than the browser find, and I have yet to get clear in my head why that there is sometimes a screen reader choice of using the screen reader find rather than just letting the browser find occur.  

The reason I ask about specifics is it could be that JAWS is not "secretly invoking" its screen reader find in a given circumstance while NVDA is.  I believe in using simple test cases to try to determine what's actually going on.

Typically, F3 is find next for the browser, too, and if you wanted screen reader find next you would need the JAWS/NVDA key + F3.

Can you please give a step-by-step example for a specific webpage giving the exact procedure you're using for JAWS versus NVDA if there is any variance in the procedure.  Also, what's happening at the end of each step when JAWS is in use versus NVDA.  Knowing the browser you're using is important, too.
--

Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 11 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 22621; Office 2016, Version 16.0.15726.20188, 32-bit

It is much easier to be critical than to be correct.

       ~ Benjamin Disraeli, 1804-1881

 

--
----------

Sarah Alawami, owner of flying Blind.  Visit my website to read my story. 

Windows 11 22H2 (x64) build 22621.963

NVDA Version: 2022.3.3

Microsoft 365 MSO (Version 2211 Build 16.0.15831.20098) 64-bit 

 

Wow, lots of quick responses to this one, thanks for the info all.

So here is a specific use case that  I just tested on both Edge and Chrome with both screen readers:

 

Go to ESPN.com

 

We want to jump right to headlines.

I try control f with NVDA, type in headlines, hit enter then escape, but it doesn’t jump.

I then do control NVDA F, type in headlines, hit enter, and it jumps, same as jaws does with control f.

 

If I need to find the next instance of of a word, in Jaws I just hit f3 and it is there.

In NVDA, I hit NVDA f3, it comes up with a dialogue I have to dismiss.

The browser find with control f seems to be useless in this circumstance with NVDA, unless I am missing something, since it does not jump.

So yes, I can make this work, but why the extra key, and why the extra dialogues?

Basically, is there a setting or add on, so I can simply do control F with NVDA and get the same easy functionality?

I know NVDA does things differently, and because of that it also does things faster for the most part, so if I have to live with this minor annoyance, so be it, but it seems like it is a minor annoyance that would take a really minor amount of work to fix, or at least have an option to execute it more efficiently in NVDA.

Thanks all for the input.

Ché

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2023 4:49 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Making the transition from JAWS - Differences with each screen reader's Find Command

 

That's a really convoluted way of finding material, requiring four or five commands instead of one.  If you want to use it, of course, that's your choice but it isn't the intended method.

Gene

On 1/30/2023 4:45 PM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

In my case I have to hit escape after hitting f3 as the curser will not auto jump there. I:

 

• hit control F
• ]type in my term
• Hit enter
• Hit escape
• Hit f3
• The dialogue comes up with what I had typed before
• I then hit enter and then escape.

 

The curser will jump there no problem, it’s just one extra step for me. I kind of like it as I get to hear how many results are on a page.

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2023 2:42 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Making the transition from JAWS - Differences with each screen reader's Find Command

 

In JAWS, just pressing control f invokes virtual find, not the browser find.  It is programmed to do this when in the Virtual PC cursor.
When in NVDA, control f invokes the browser find which is not intended to be used when in browse mode.  You are searching the underlying web page with control f when using NVDA and search doesn't work as expected.

When you use control NVDA f in NVDA, you are invoking the browse mode search which searches the browse mode buffer version of the page and moves you to found text, if there is any.  It moves the browse mode virtual cursor.  This is the same as JAWS virtual find.

But JAWS doesn't even give you the chance to mistakenly use the application find.  It doesn't use it, as I said, when you issue control f.  You can hear this because when you use control f in JAWS, it announces virtual find.

Gene

On 1/30/2023 4:28 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Mon, Jan 30, 2023 at 05:21 PM, Che Martin wrote:

With Jaws, I can simply hit control f to find a word on a page, and it jumps right there if found. If I want to find the next instance, I just hit f3, simple. With NVDA I have to add the NVDA key to the control f sequence, fair enough. But then every time I do a search or try to repeat a search it pulls up a diologue box. Why?

-
Ché,

Welcome to the NVDA users group.  You'll find a lot of assistance here.

I would need to play with JAWS, and on the precise page and searching for the same thing you do, but I have never noticed any significant difference between how each respective screen reader's find function works.

In general, hitting just CTRL + F on a given webpage does not invoke the screen reader find at all, but the native browser find, which functions differently, and separately.  But I have seen instances where both JAWS and NVDA invoke their own screen reader find rather than the browser find, and I have yet to get clear in my head why that there is sometimes a screen reader choice of using the screen reader find rather than just letting the browser find occur.  

The reason I ask about specifics is it could be that JAWS is not "secretly invoking" its screen reader find in a given circumstance while NVDA is.  I believe in using simple test cases to try to determine what's actually going on.

Typically, F3 is find next for the browser, too, and if you wanted screen reader find next you would need the JAWS/NVDA key + F3.

Can you please give a step-by-step example for a specific webpage giving the exact procedure you're using for JAWS versus NVDA if there is any variance in the procedure.  Also, what's happening at the end of each step when JAWS is in use versus NVDA.  Knowing the browser you're using is important, too.
--

Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 11 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 22621; Office 2016, Version 16.0.15726.20188, 32-bit

It is much easier to be critical than to be correct.

       ~ Benjamin Disraeli, 1804-1881

 

--
----------

Sarah Alawami, owner of flying Blind.  Visit my website to read my story. 

Windows 11 22H2 (x64) build 22621.963

NVDA Version: 2022.3.3

Microsoft 365 MSO (Version 2211 Build 16.0.15831.20098) 64-bit 

 

On Mon, Jan 30, 2023 at 05:54 PM, Nermin wrote:

As a rule of thumb, anything that uses a virtual cursor, be that web browsers, Adobe PDF, will always use the JAWS find feature.

That's why some people get confused when they find a totally different dialogue using NVDA.

-
And that's even confused me when going back and forth between the two screen readers.  I thought I recalled some circumstance where F3 triggered an NVDA find rather than a native application find, but I could be entirely mistaken.

As far as wrapping around to the top (JAWS) and not (NVDA) it's my feeling that both should allow that to be a user controllable choice, but if/when wrapping occurs it must be made clear.  My sighted self prefers wrapping find functions, but that's because it's immediately obvious to me when a wrap has occurred.  I can understand why a screen reader user might strongly prefer to hear that the end of a page/document has been reached rather than having a wrap back to top occur.

As an aside, I never thought this topic would generate the amount large amount of traffic in a short amount of time that it has.  I'm leaving this to others who are daily driver users to give the best, and most accurate, advice.
--

Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 11 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 22621; Office 2016, Version 16.0.15726.20188, 32-bit

It is much easier to be critical than to be correct.

       ~ Benjamin Disraeli, 1804-1881