I do hate auto complete or lists of results that dynamically change as you type. Perhaps its me, but it puts me off when I'm typing, interrupting my thought process.
So what I'd like is a way to stop that behaviour, then look at the list afterwards, like in some spell checkers I've used.
From the search point of view, we are basically saying then is that Jaws stops the built in command in the browser, and inserts its own? That seems a dangerous course to take. You almost need a sub menu like applications built in command and Screenreader version.
Brian

All you need do is turn off speech with NVDA key s before typing in a field where autocomplete is present.  I find autocomplete to be very useful and I wouldn't be without it.

If, for example, I want to open the New York Times, I go to the input field, control l, and I just type one letter, n.  Perhaps the browser places the New York Times address in the field because its the most frequent site I go to that begins with n, but all I have to do is press enter and the home page opens.  I don't have to use book marks or take any other steps, just control l, type n, then press enter.

My impression is that a lot of browser users have no idea how convenient autocomplete may be.

If I want to open Newsweek, I type the word news and the address appears in the input field so its just control l, news enter.  If autocomplete doesn't announce what is in the field, and it doesn't at times, I use read current line to be sure before I press enter.

While I only use autocomplete for a very few sites, it is very convenient for those sites.

Gene

Gene
On 1/31/2023 2:46 AM, Brian's Mail list account via groups.io wrote:

I do hate auto complete or lists of results that dynamically change as you type. Perhaps its me, but it puts me off when I'm typing, interrupting my thought process.
So what I'd like is a way to stop that behaviour, then look at the list afterwards, like in some spell checkers I've used.
From the search point of view, we are basically saying then is that Jaws stops the built in command in the browser, and inserts its own? That seems a dangerous course to take. You almost need a sub menu like applications built in command and Screenreader version.
Brian

Travis,

I absolutely agree with you.  Autocomplete should behave similarly to, say, Windows search, where what you've typed in the search box/edit box causes what's listed below it to change based upon changing input, but you don't get things read to you unless you choose to traverse the results list.

I love autocomplete, but because when using it by vision it is, essentially, behaving exactly as you mention.  Although I am presented a completed option, that I could choose by hitting tab, that's not read (of course when no screen reader is on) and it's also always the thing that's at the top of the results list based upon the input so far.  For a screen reader user, it would make much more sense to me to not have anything read from the edit box/address bar, and only read if you choose to down arrow once to see what might have turned up first.

For most of us, the first few, particularly 2, characters typed in a web address edit box can return literally hundreds of prior pages you've visited if you are not someone who clears their browsing history.

It would drive me insane if I had to deal with how autocomplete shows, visually, in the web address box "by ear."  It's very easy to visually screen out the stippled characters that show the "best guess" for autocomplete as you type, but having each character typed announce the next "best guess" would be maddening.
--

Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 11 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 22621; Office 2016, Version 16.0.15726.20188, 32-bit

It is much easier to be critical than to be correct.

       ~ Benjamin Disraeli, 1804-1881

On Tue, Jan 31, 2023 at 05:59 PM, Travis Siegel wrote:

I could turn it off,

-
You can in all browsers I've used.  I've just pulled up the setting in Vivaldi and Microsoft Edge.  What browser are you using where you'd like to turn it off.

In Edge, the two settings are:
Show me search and site suggestions using my typed characters
and
Show me suggestions from history, favorites and other data on this device using my typed characters

Vivaldi's is: Address Auto-Complete

Firefox has much finer granularity on its Privacy & Security settings pane under the Address Bar — Firefox Suggest, section.

For Chrome, these instructions, seem to get rid of autocomplete in the address bar itself, though the list that shows up below it is still generated.
--

Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 11 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 22621; Office 2016, Version 16.0.15726.20188, 32-bit

It is much easier to be critical than to be correct.

       ~ Benjamin Disraeli, 1804-1881

The best solution might be to make no change in what is read in terms of the line being read.  If you start arrowing away from the line, you may well see suggestions that don't apply because the applicable suggestion is on the address line.  the best solution would probably be to have the screen-reader read the line after a pause in typing of perhaps half a second.  That would keep speech from being generated while typing and allow the user to hear what is on the line in case he/she wants to go to that site without a meaningfully inefficient delay.  It also would not make it necessary for the user to remove his hands from around the home keys to execute a read current line command to hear what is there.

Gene

On 1/31/2023 5:06 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

Travis,

I absolutely agree with you.  Autocomplete should behave similarly to, say, Windows search, where what you've typed in the search box/edit box causes what's listed below it to change based upon changing input, but you don't get things read to you unless you choose to traverse the results list.

I love autocomplete, but because when using it by vision it is, essentially, behaving exactly as you mention.  Although I am presented a completed option, that I could choose by hitting tab, that's not read (of course when no screen reader is on) and it's also always the thing that's at the top of the results list based upon the input so far.  For a screen reader user, it would make much more sense to me to not have anything read from the edit box/address bar, and only read if you choose to down arrow once to see what might have turned up first.

For most of us, the first few, particularly 2, characters typed in a web address edit box can return literally hundreds of prior pages you've visited if you are not someone who clears their browsing history.

It would drive me insane if I had to deal with how autocomplete shows, visually, in the web address box "by ear."  It's very easy to visually screen out the stippled characters that show the "best guess" for autocomplete as you type, but having each character typed announce the next "best guess" would be maddening.
--

Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 11 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 22621; Office 2016, Version 16.0.15726.20188, 32-bit

It is much easier to be critical than to be correct.

       ~ Benjamin Disraeli, 1804-1881

Gene.  I don't know what you're talking about here.

Nobody said anything about arrowing away from the input line.  The suggestion was that up/down arrows would  show you suggestions based on previous input inputs.  You can do that now with chrome, only the difference is that it autofills the address based on what it thinks you're going to type.  That's the part that needs to go away.  If I want it to fill in something, I'll select it from the suggestions, or press the tab key, and it can fill in the first one in the list.  That's simple and straight forward, and doesn't irritate the hell of people like me who can't stand the stupid autofill feature.

On 1/31/2023 6:35 PM, Gene wrote:

The best solution might be to make no change in what is read in terms of the line being read.  If you start arrowing away from the line, you may well see suggestions that don't apply because the applicable suggestion is on the address line.  the best solution would probably be to have the screen-reader read the line after a pause in typing of perhaps half a second.  That would keep speech from being generated while typing and allow the user to hear what is on the line in case he/she wants to go to that site without a meaningfully inefficient delay.  It also would not make it necessary for the user to remove his hands from around the home keys to execute a read current line command to hear what is there.

Gene

On 1/31/2023 5:06 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

Travis,

I absolutely agree with you.  Autocomplete should behave similarly to, say, Windows search, where what you've typed in the search box/edit box causes what's listed below it to change based upon changing input, but you don't get things read to you unless you choose to traverse the results list.

I love autocomplete, but because when using it by vision it is, essentially, behaving exactly as you mention.  Although I am presented a completed option, that I could choose by hitting tab, that's not read (of course when no screen reader is on) and it's also always the thing that's at the top of the results list based upon the input so far.  For a screen reader user, it would make much more sense to me to not have anything read from the edit box/address bar, and only read if you choose to down arrow once to see what might have turned up first.

For most of us, the first few, particularly 2, characters typed in a web address edit box can return literally hundreds of prior pages you've visited if you are not someone who clears their browsing history.

It would drive me insane if I had to deal with how autocomplete shows, visually, in the web address box "by ear."  It's very easy to visually screen out the stippled characters that show the "best guess" for autocomplete as you type, but having each character typed announce the next "best guess" would be maddening.
--

Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 11 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 22621; Office 2016, Version 16.0.15726.20188, 32-bit

It is much easier to be critical than to be correct.

       ~ Benjamin Disraeli, 1804-1881

On Tue, Jan 31, 2023 at 08:21 PM, Gene wrote:

Earlier someone proposed that nothing be spoken unless you up or down arrow away from the address line to see the suggestions in the list.  If you do that, you won't see the suggestion which appears to be the most common site you go to based on the number of letters you typed. 

-
That must depend on the browser.  In Firefox, Edge, and Vivaldi, where I do not have autocomplete turned off, the first thing at the top of the list beneath the address bar is always what's showing as the current autocomplete option in the address bar.
--

Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 11 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 22621; Office 2016, Version 16.0.15726.20188, 32-bit

It is much easier to be critical than to be correct.

       ~ Benjamin Disraeli, 1804-1881

Gene.  I don't know what you're talking about here.

Nobody said anything about arrowing away from the input line.  The suggestion was that up/down arrows would  show you suggestions based on previous input inputs.  You can do that now with chrome, only the difference is that it autofills the address based on what it thinks you're going to type.  That's the part that needs to go away.  If I want it to fill in something, I'll select it from the suggestions, or press the tab key, and it can fill in the first one in the list.  That's simple and straight forward, and doesn't irritate the hell of people like me who can't stand the stupid autofill feature.

On 1/31/2023 6:35 PM, Gene wrote:

The best solution might be to make no change in what is read in terms of the line being read.  If you start arrowing away from the line, you may well see suggestions that don't apply because the applicable suggestion is on the address line.  the best solution would probably be to have the screen-reader read the line after a pause in typing of perhaps half a second.  That would keep speech from being generated while typing and allow the user to hear what is on the line in case he/she wants to go to that site without a meaningfully inefficient delay.  It also would not make it necessary for the user to remove his hands from around the home keys to execute a read current line command to hear what is there.

Gene

On 1/31/2023 5:06 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

Travis,

I absolutely agree with you.  Autocomplete should behave similarly to, say, Windows search, where what you've typed in the search box/edit box causes what's listed below it to change based upon changing input, but you don't get things read to you unless you choose to traverse the results list.

I love autocomplete, but because when using it by vision it is, essentially, behaving exactly as you mention.  Although I am presented a completed option, that I could choose by hitting tab, that's not read (of course when no screen reader is on) and it's also always the thing that's at the top of the results list based upon the input so far.  For a screen reader user, it would make much more sense to me to not have anything read from the edit box/address bar, and only read if you choose to down arrow once to see what might have turned up first.

For most of us, the first few, particularly 2, characters typed in a web address edit box can return literally hundreds of prior pages you've visited if you are not someone who clears their browsing history.

It would drive me insane if I had to deal with how autocomplete shows, visually, in the web address box "by ear."  It's very easy to visually screen out the stippled characters that show the "best guess" for autocomplete as you type, but having each character typed announce the next "best guess" would be maddening.
--

Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 11 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 22621; Office 2016, Version 16.0.15726.20188, 32-bit

It is much easier to be critical than to be correct.

       ~ Benjamin Disraeli, 1804-1881

On Tue, Jan 31, 2023 at 08:36 PM, Gene wrote:

It would have to be checked to compare what a screen-reader says with what you see. 

-
OK, here's the deal by browser:

Firefox:  NVDA is not reading anything related to autofill when I'm in the address bar and typing, even when a suggestion is there.  In the vast majority of cases, and it's so consistent that I'd say this is the technique to use on Firefox, if I down arrow the first thing I land on is NOT the first thing in the autocomplete list, which is what would have completed in the address bar had I hit TAB, but on the second, which is read.  If I up arrow once, the auto complete that would have occurred in the address bar had I tabbed is read.  But in all cases, you can get good information from NVDA.  If you up arrow back in to the address bar, NVDA reads whatever it is that you had typed so far, which is generally pretty easy to recognize if you've only entered a few characters.

Edge: As it turns out, the behavior is exactly the same.  I get no feedback about what would autocomplete from NVDA as I type in the address bar.  If I down arrow after typing a certain number of characters that has triggered an autocomplete list, the first thing landed on is always the second in the list.  I suspect that this is actually a browser feature, because if you're sighted and you can see what would autocomplete, it would be really annoying to have the first thing you land on be exactly the same thing you could have gotten by hitting TAB.

I'm happy to test out any browser anyone else might want me to, unless I'd have to install it, in which case I might or might not do so here and request we do a remote session where I'm actually doing the test on your computer and you can listen to exactly what your screen reader is saying (if I have the time).

But, overall, you can easily review the entire autocomplete list, provided you do a down arrow, followed by an up arrow, to land back on what would have autocompleted with a tab.  After you've reviewed that, if it's not what you wanted, you can keep down arrowing through the remaining suggestions, or up arrow into the address bar and keep adding to what you already had there, beginning again with the autocomplete list after you've added those characters for the autocomplete search.  Feedback from NVDA is accurate and directly reflects what is shown, though it does not explicitly say if it's a search versus a URL until it hits the URL if you have enabled direct web searching from the address box, which I always do.

The first option in the autocomplete list in my experience is always a URL you've visited before if the characters you've typed will map to one.  Mind you, if you start typing something like washingtonpost.com, that first URL is likely to be a specific story or section page, and NVDA announces the title of said page before the actual naked URL content, which is what I'd want and expect.  Naked URLs tell me much less than a title does when it comes to webpages.
--

Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 11 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 22621; Office 2016, Version 16.0.15726.20188, 32-bit

It is much easier to be critical than to be correct.

       ~ Benjamin Disraeli, 1804-1881