locked This is the moderator speaking: Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code Factory


 

Ladies and gentlemen,

Until a few months ago, discussion of Eloquence wasn't allowed on this list. This was relaxed last summer when Code Factory released Eloquence add-on. Back then, Nimer and I (Nimer being the actual list owner) said discussion of illegal version isn't still permitted.
At this point, it would be advisable to suspend Eloquence discussions for a while. We cannot risk giving NVDA a slightly muddy reputation at this important occasion: NVDA's tenth anniversary and NVDACon. Please don't forget this: the reputation of a product, particularly a product that many of you depends on, depends on what users say about the product and the discussions surrounding it.
For those new to this list: I'm known for being generous. However, I'm also known for being a volcano, especially if the integrity of the list or the reputation of a product or a community is questioned. I'll not activate moderation flag for anyone out of respect for everyone and for newbies to get accustomed to this environment.
For our old friends: Yes, I am indeed serious, more serious now that we're about to help NV Access celebrate NVDA's tenth birthday. Not only I'm speaking on behalf of moderators, but as one of the planners of NVDACon 2016 (I am indeed the chair of the planning committee), I'd like to kindly request that we care about reputation of NVDA, NV Access and this community. These days, what gives me more stress isn't the question of who will succeed me or success of NVDACon, but the reputation and future of this community for months and years to come. What gives me more joy is to see you all become folks who can think about what's going on and make informed decisions (yes, that's the reason why I've proposed certain proposals in the past).
In conclusion, I do know I will not be able to sleep tonight, but believe I need to say this: NVDA community, specifically this forum, is facing a crisis: misinformation abounds and passion trumps reason at times. We're suffering from a disease called "misinformation" - what is illegal being seen as legal, people not being informed as to what's available to them when they need it, name calling at times and so forth (as I mentioned in my blog, I will not accept name calling). Being passionate about something is good, but it is better to think about what's going on before defending one's arguments. In other words, contrary to what we've said about this forum to the outside world, we're at times known for doing the opposite.
Lastly, in regards to free material: there is no such thing as free lunch. I do need to say this in public: NVDA isn't technically free. For the benefit of many, NVDA is made available as a free, open-source and community-driven screen reader. But there are costs associated with this project. Please stop now and imagine for a second: imagine a group of developers who have decided to promote equal access to technology at no additional costs, using their talents to give opportunities for someone who lives in poverty somewhere. NVDA is more than a screen reader now: it's a movement, and workers deserve their wages - support, encouragement, opportunities and so on.
Thank you.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: Afrim [mailto:afrim.maja@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2016 2:43 AM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code Factory

Why do people talk about it? They can, and I don't consider it against the rules of the list since the add-on, the alternative if you like to call it is available and accessible from within the add-on list of NVDA.

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 17, 2016, at 9:33 PM, mk360 <mk.seventhson@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,

I can pay, but the first condition is that the paid versions works as fine or better that the alternative, and as reviews as been said, that is not the case.
However, I know that in the list we can't speak about that alternative, so I don't understand why the people speak about it.

Regards,
mk.

El 17-04-2016 a las 8:04, Greg Wocher escribió:
Hello,
I want to give those of you who use the illegal eloquence add on some food for thought. When you do it and proudly proclaim that you do, you give NVDA and its users a bad reputation. I think I may purchase the Code Factory add on later this afternoon from AT Guys and I will let you all know if it gets rid of the choppiness.

Regards,
Greg Wocher

On 4/17/2016 5:32 AM, Peter Beasley wrote:
My sentiments exactly.

-----Original Message----- From: Afrim
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2016 6:40 AM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code
Factory

I have been using the old add-on of eloquonce someone made, and I am not going to pay for a program that does essentially the same thing. The add-on I am talking about works so fast and reliably.
cheers.

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 17, 2016, at 6:22 AM, Kelly Sapergia <ksapergia@sasktel.net> wrote:

Hi,

Recently, there was a discussion about alternative voices for NVDA, such as Code Factory's add-on with Eloquence and Vocalizer. I mentioned that when I tried this particular product, I noticed that Eloquence sounded quite choppy compared to other screen readers and other synths I have for NVDA on my machine running Windows 7.
I also never experienced this with Code Factory's SAPI 5 implementation.
Anyway, I got thinking about it this evening, and decided to do some searching to see if anyone else was experiencing similar issues. I found a thread about the add-on in the old NVDA list's archive, and saw a message stating that the choppiness would go away once the product was paid for. I was just wondering if this is indeed the case? If yes, it's not what I'd consider the best way to limit a trial version, but I might buy it after all.

Thanks.

Yours Sincerely,
Kelly John Sapergia
Show Host and Production Director
The Global Voice Internet Radio
http://www.theglobalvoice.info

Personal Website: http://www.ksapergia.net Business Website (KJS
Productions): http://www.kjsproductions.com Follow me on Twitter
at: kjsapergia



Christopher-Mark Gilland <clgilland07@...>
 

This is the only Eloquence related post I'm going to send to this list, but it has 100% everything to do with what Joseph has just said. I'm neither promoting nor asking about how to get this working with Eloquence, so know that up front.

So, my question is, first, Joseph, you say that Code Factory released an addon. I guess my question is, is that addon considered to be illegal? Second off, I'm a little bit confused. Are you saying that Eloquence is allowed, or are you saying it isn't allowed at this time on list. Further, if not allowed, please then be more specific. Are you saying it's not allowed period, or are you saying it's allowed, but only if talking about the CF version.

Sorry, your message was just a little bit vague. I've had an extremely emotionally rough night, I won't go into it more than to say, I've been crying my eyes out all night, so therefore as you can imagine, I'm incredibly tired, so perhaps my mind is a bit oblivious right now to the meaning of your message. If so, please forgive me.
---
Christopher Gilland
JAWS Certified, 2016.
Training Instructor.

clgilland07@gmail.com
Phone: (704) 256-8010.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@groups.io>
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2016 6:17 AM
Subject: Re: This is the moderator speaking: [nvda] Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code Factory


Ladies and gentlemen,

Until a few months ago, discussion of Eloquence wasn't allowed on this list. This was relaxed last summer when Code Factory released Eloquence add-on. Back then, Nimer and I (Nimer being the actual list owner) said discussion of illegal version isn't still permitted.
At this point, it would be advisable to suspend Eloquence discussions for a while. We cannot risk giving NVDA a slightly muddy reputation at this important occasion: NVDA's tenth anniversary and NVDACon. Please don't forget this: the reputation of a product, particularly a product that many of you depends on, depends on what users say about the product and the discussions surrounding it.
For those new to this list: I'm known for being generous. However, I'm also known for being a volcano, especially if the integrity of the list or the reputation of a product or a community is questioned. I'll not activate moderation flag for anyone out of respect for everyone and for newbies to get accustomed to this environment.
For our old friends: Yes, I am indeed serious, more serious now that we're about to help NV Access celebrate NVDA's tenth birthday. Not only I'm speaking on behalf of moderators, but as one of the planners of NVDACon 2016 (I am indeed the chair of the planning committee), I'd like to kindly request that we care about reputation of NVDA, NV Access and this community. These days, what gives me more stress isn't the question of who will succeed me or success of NVDACon, but the reputation and future of this community for months and years to come. What gives me more joy is to see you all become folks who can think about what's going on and make informed decisions (yes, that's the reason why I've proposed certain proposals in the past).
In conclusion, I do know I will not be able to sleep tonight, but believe I need to say this: NVDA community, specifically this forum, is facing a crisis: misinformation abounds and passion trumps reason at times. We're suffering from a disease called "misinformation" - what is illegal being seen as legal, people not being informed as to what's available to them when they need it, name calling at times and so forth (as I mentioned in my blog, I will not accept name calling). Being passionate about something is good, but it is better to think about what's going on before defending one's arguments. In other words, contrary to what we've said about this forum to the outside world, we're at times known for doing the opposite.
Lastly, in regards to free material: there is no such thing as free lunch. I do need to say this in public: NVDA isn't technically free. For the benefit of many, NVDA is made available as a free, open-source and community-driven screen reader. But there are costs associated with this project. Please stop now and imagine for a second: imagine a group of developers who have decided to promote equal access to technology at no additional costs, using their talents to give opportunities for someone who lives in poverty somewhere. NVDA is more than a screen reader now: it's a movement, and workers deserve their wages - support, encouragement, opportunities and so on.
Thank you.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: Afrim [mailto:afrim.maja@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2016 2:43 AM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code Factory

Why do people talk about it? They can, and I don't consider it against the rules of the list since the add-on, the alternative if you like to call it is available and accessible from within the add-on list of NVDA.

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 17, 2016, at 9:33 PM, mk360 <mk.seventhson@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,

I can pay, but the first condition is that the paid versions works as fine or better that the alternative, and as reviews as been said, that is not the case.
However, I know that in the list we can't speak about that alternative, so I don't understand why the people speak about it.

Regards,
mk.

El 17-04-2016 a las 8:04, Greg Wocher escribió:
Hello,
I want to give those of you who use the illegal eloquence add on some food for thought. When you do it and proudly proclaim that you do, you give NVDA and its users a bad reputation. I think I may purchase the Code Factory add on later this afternoon from AT Guys and I will let you all know if it gets rid of the choppiness.

Regards,
Greg Wocher

On 4/17/2016 5:32 AM, Peter Beasley wrote:
My sentiments exactly.

-----Original Message----- From: Afrim
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2016 6:40 AM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code
Factory

I have been using the old add-on of eloquonce someone made, and I am not going to pay for a program that does essentially the same thing. The add-on I am talking about works so fast and reliably.
cheers.

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 17, 2016, at 6:22 AM, Kelly Sapergia <ksapergia@sasktel.net> wrote:

Hi,

Recently, there was a discussion about alternative voices for NVDA, such as Code Factory's add-on with Eloquence and Vocalizer. I mentioned that when I tried this particular product, I noticed that Eloquence sounded quite choppy compared to other screen readers and other synths I have for NVDA on my machine running Windows 7.
I also never experienced this with Code Factory's SAPI 5 implementation.
Anyway, I got thinking about it this evening, and decided to do some searching to see if anyone else was experiencing similar issues. I found a thread about the add-on in the old NVDA list's archive, and saw a message stating that the choppiness would go away once the product was paid for. I was just wondering if this is indeed the case? If yes, it's not what I'd consider the best way to limit a trial version, but I might buy it after all.

Thanks.

Yours Sincerely,
Kelly John Sapergia
Show Host and Production Director
The Global Voice Internet Radio
http://www.theglobalvoice.info

Personal Website: http://www.ksapergia.net Business Website (KJS
Productions): http://www.kjsproductions.com Follow me on Twitter
at: kjsapergia



 

Hi Chris,
1. CF version is legal.
2. Sometimes we do see illegal Eloquence pop up, and this version is the one we don't allow (legal versions are allowed).
Hope this helps (and please have a long rest).
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: Christopher-Mark Gilland [mailto:clgilland07@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2016 3:25 AM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: This is the moderator speaking: [nvda] Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code Factory

This is the only Eloquence related post I'm going to send to this list, but it has 100% everything to do with what Joseph has just said. I'm neither promoting nor asking about how to get this working with Eloquence, so know that up front.

So, my question is, first, Joseph, you say that Code Factory released an addon. I guess my question is, is that addon considered to be illegal?
Second off, I'm a little bit confused. Are you saying that Eloquence is allowed, or are you saying it isn't allowed at this time on list. Further, if not allowed, please then be more specific. Are you saying it's not allowed period, or are you saying it's allowed, but only if talking about the CF version.

Sorry, your message was just a little bit vague. I've had an extremely emotionally rough night, I won't go into it more than to say, I've been crying my eyes out all night, so therefore as you can imagine, I'm incredibly tired, so perhaps my mind is a bit oblivious right now to the meaning of your message. If so, please forgive me.
---
Christopher Gilland
JAWS Certified, 2016.
Training Instructor.

clgilland07@gmail.com
Phone: (704) 256-8010.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@groups.io>
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2016 6:17 AM
Subject: Re: This is the moderator speaking: [nvda] Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code Factory


Ladies and gentlemen,

Until a few months ago, discussion of Eloquence wasn't allowed on this list.
This was relaxed last summer when Code Factory released Eloquence add-on.
Back then, Nimer and I (Nimer being the actual list owner) said discussion of illegal version isn't still permitted.
At this point, it would be advisable to suspend Eloquence discussions for a while. We cannot risk giving NVDA a slightly muddy reputation at this important occasion: NVDA's tenth anniversary and NVDACon. Please don't forget this: the reputation of a product, particularly a product that many of you depends on, depends on what users say about the product and the discussions surrounding it.
For those new to this list: I'm known for being generous. However, I'm also known for being a volcano, especially if the integrity of the list or the reputation of a product or a community is questioned. I'll not activate moderation flag for anyone out of respect for everyone and for newbies to get accustomed to this environment.
For our old friends: Yes, I am indeed serious, more serious now that we're about to help NV Access celebrate NVDA's tenth birthday. Not only I'm speaking on behalf of moderators, but as one of the planners of NVDACon 2016 (I am indeed the chair of the planning committee), I'd like to kindly request that we care about reputation of NVDA, NV Access and this community.
These days, what gives me more stress isn't the question of who will succeed me or success of NVDACon, but the reputation and future of this community for months and years to come. What gives me more joy is to see you all become folks who can think about what's going on and make informed decisions (yes, that's the reason why I've proposed certain proposals in the past).
In conclusion, I do know I will not be able to sleep tonight, but believe I need to say this: NVDA community, specifically this forum, is facing a
crisis: misinformation abounds and passion trumps reason at times. We're suffering from a disease called "misinformation" - what is illegal being seen as legal, people not being informed as to what's available to them when they need it, name calling at times and so forth (as I mentioned in my blog, I will not accept name calling). Being passionate about something is good, but it is better to think about what's going on before defending one's arguments. In other words, contrary to what we've said about this forum to the outside world, we're at times known for doing the opposite.
Lastly, in regards to free material: there is no such thing as free lunch. I do need to say this in public: NVDA isn't technically free. For the benefit of many, NVDA is made available as a free, open-source and community-driven screen reader. But there are costs associated with this project. Please stop now and imagine for a second: imagine a group of developers who have decided to promote equal access to technology at no additional costs, using their talents to give opportunities for someone who lives in poverty somewhere.
NVDA is more than a screen reader now: it's a movement, and workers deserve their wages - support, encouragement, opportunities and so on.
Thank you.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: Afrim [mailto:afrim.maja@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2016 2:43 AM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code Factory

Why do people talk about it? They can, and I don't consider it against the rules of the list since the add-on, the alternative if you like to call it is available and accessible from within the add-on list of NVDA.

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 17, 2016, at 9:33 PM, mk360 <mk.seventhson@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,

I can pay, but the first condition is that the paid versions works as
fine or better that the alternative, and as reviews as been said, that
is not the case.
However, I know that in the list we can't speak about that
alternative, so I don't understand why the people speak about it.

Regards,
mk.

El 17-04-2016 a las 8:04, Greg Wocher escribió:
Hello,
I want to give those of you who use the illegal eloquence add on some
food for thought. When you do it and proudly proclaim that you do,
you give NVDA and its users a bad reputation. I think I may purchase
the Code Factory add on later this afternoon from AT Guys and I will
let you all know if it gets rid of the choppiness.

Regards,
Greg Wocher

On 4/17/2016 5:32 AM, Peter Beasley wrote:
My sentiments exactly.

-----Original Message----- From: Afrim
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2016 6:40 AM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code
Factory

I have been using the old add-on of eloquonce someone made, and I am
not going to pay for a program that does essentially the same
thing. The add-on I am talking about works so fast and reliably.
cheers.

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 17, 2016, at 6:22 AM, Kelly Sapergia <ksapergia@sasktel.net>
wrote:

Hi,

Recently, there was a discussion about alternative voices for NVDA,
such as Code Factory's add-on with Eloquence and Vocalizer. I
mentioned that when I tried this particular product, I noticed that
Eloquence sounded quite choppy compared to other screen readers and
other synths I have for NVDA on my machine running Windows 7.
I also never experienced this with Code Factory's SAPI 5
implementation.
Anyway, I got thinking about it this evening, and decided to do
some searching to see if anyone else was experiencing similar
issues. I found a thread about the add-on in the old NVDA list's
archive, and saw a message stating that the choppiness would go
away once the product was paid for. I was just wondering if this is
indeed the case? If yes, it's not what I'd consider the best way to
limit a trial version, but I might buy it after all.

Thanks.

Yours Sincerely,
Kelly John Sapergia
Show Host and Production Director
The Global Voice Internet Radio
http://www.theglobalvoice.info

Personal Website: http://www.ksapergia.net Business Website (KJS
Productions): http://www.kjsproductions.com Follow me on Twitter
at: kjsapergia



Brian's Mail list account BY <bglists@...>
 

Yes indeed. Whis was why I tried to choose my words very carefully on the reply to the thread, but I think it went over the heads of many.

I always donate when a new stable version comes out, and if anyone wants to say, the project needs x to do then I also donate according to what I think I can afford.

The thing about Eloquence is, at least from my very limited experience with other people this.
Most older users who migrated from Jaws, seem to like eloquence, most new users of computers prefer something that sounds more human, or of course they can now mix and match as they like. What you should not do is install hacked versions of anything, as it does take away money form somebody who is trying to make a living. If its too much then just don't get it. we are spoiled for choice with voices these days, and its up to the individual to decide if they need a non free one to aid their comprehension.

Though I do still have an old version of Via Voice here on some computers, I just don't like the eloquence type of sound, so I hardly ever use it, and have not bought a copy. However, some of the other voices like Daniel and Serena I have purchased over the years and find them very got for reading documents, with the one proviso of them using expanded US abbreviations like St for saint and NY for new York, which are rather silly when encountered in normal text!

Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@groups.io>
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2016 11:17 AM
Subject: Re: This is the moderator speaking: [nvda] Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code Factory


Ladies and gentlemen,

Until a few months ago, discussion of Eloquence wasn't allowed on this list. This was relaxed last summer when Code Factory released Eloquence add-on. Back then, Nimer and I (Nimer being the actual list owner) said discussion of illegal version isn't still permitted.
At this point, it would be advisable to suspend Eloquence discussions for a while. We cannot risk giving NVDA a slightly muddy reputation at this important occasion: NVDA's tenth anniversary and NVDACon. Please don't forget this: the reputation of a product, particularly a product that many of you depends on, depends on what users say about the product and the discussions surrounding it.
For those new to this list: I'm known for being generous. However, I'm also known for being a volcano, especially if the integrity of the list or the reputation of a product or a community is questioned. I'll not activate moderation flag for anyone out of respect for everyone and for newbies to get accustomed to this environment.
For our old friends: Yes, I am indeed serious, more serious now that we're about to help NV Access celebrate NVDA's tenth birthday. Not only I'm speaking on behalf of moderators, but as one of the planners of NVDACon 2016 (I am indeed the chair of the planning committee), I'd like to kindly request that we care about reputation of NVDA, NV Access and this community. These days, what gives me more stress isn't the question of who will succeed me or success of NVDACon, but the reputation and future of this community for months and years to come. What gives me more joy is to see you all become folks who can think about what's going on and make informed decisions (yes, that's the reason why I've proposed certain proposals in the past).
In conclusion, I do know I will not be able to sleep tonight, but believe I need to say this: NVDA community, specifically this forum, is facing a crisis: misinformation abounds and passion trumps reason at times. We're suffering from a disease called "misinformation" - what is illegal being seen as legal, people not being informed as to what's available to them when they need it, name calling at times and so forth (as I mentioned in my blog, I will not accept name calling). Being passionate about something is good, but it is better to think about what's going on before defending one's arguments. In other words, contrary to what we've said about this forum to the outside world, we're at times known for doing the opposite.
Lastly, in regards to free material: there is no such thing as free lunch. I do need to say this in public: NVDA isn't technically free. For the benefit of many, NVDA is made available as a free, open-source and community-driven screen reader. But there are costs associated with this project. Please stop now and imagine for a second: imagine a group of developers who have decided to promote equal access to technology at no additional costs, using their talents to give opportunities for someone who lives in poverty somewhere. NVDA is more than a screen reader now: it's a movement, and workers deserve their wages - support, encouragement, opportunities and so on.
Thank you.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: Afrim [mailto:afrim.maja@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2016 2:43 AM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code Factory

Why do people talk about it? They can, and I don't consider it against the rules of the list since the add-on, the alternative if you like to call it is available and accessible from within the add-on list of NVDA.

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 17, 2016, at 9:33 PM, mk360 <mk.seventhson@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,

I can pay, but the first condition is that the paid versions works as fine or better that the alternative, and as reviews as been said, that is not the case.
However, I know that in the list we can't speak about that alternative, so I don't understand why the people speak about it.

Regards,
mk.

El 17-04-2016 a las 8:04, Greg Wocher escribió:
Hello,
I want to give those of you who use the illegal eloquence add on some food for thought. When you do it and proudly proclaim that you do, you give NVDA and its users a bad reputation. I think I may purchase the Code Factory add on later this afternoon from AT Guys and I will let you all know if it gets rid of the choppiness.

Regards,
Greg Wocher

On 4/17/2016 5:32 AM, Peter Beasley wrote:
My sentiments exactly.

-----Original Message----- From: Afrim
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2016 6:40 AM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code
Factory

I have been using the old add-on of eloquonce someone made, and I am not going to pay for a program that does essentially the same thing. The add-on I am talking about works so fast and reliably.
cheers.

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 17, 2016, at 6:22 AM, Kelly Sapergia <ksapergia@sasktel.net> wrote:

Hi,

Recently, there was a discussion about alternative voices for NVDA, such as Code Factory's add-on with Eloquence and Vocalizer. I mentioned that when I tried this particular product, I noticed that Eloquence sounded quite choppy compared to other screen readers and other synths I have for NVDA on my machine running Windows 7.
I also never experienced this with Code Factory's SAPI 5 implementation.
Anyway, I got thinking about it this evening, and decided to do some searching to see if anyone else was experiencing similar issues. I found a thread about the add-on in the old NVDA list's archive, and saw a message stating that the choppiness would go away once the product was paid for. I was just wondering if this is indeed the case? If yes, it's not what I'd consider the best way to limit a trial version, but I might buy it after all.

Thanks.

Yours Sincerely,
Kelly John Sapergia
Show Host and Production Director
The Global Voice Internet Radio
http://www.theglobalvoice.info

Personal Website: http://www.ksapergia.net Business Website (KJS
Productions): http://www.kjsproductions.com Follow me on Twitter
at: kjsapergia



Christopher-Mark Gilland <clgilland07@...>
 

Thanks for the clarification.

I'm gonna try to get some sleep, yeah, hopefully, I'll be successful, as like I said, last night was really rough.

Anyway, take care.
---
Christopher Gilland
JAWS Certified, 2016.
Training Instructor.

clgilland07@gmail.com
Phone: (704) 256-8010.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@groups.io>
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2016 6:33 AM
Subject: Re: This is the moderator speaking: [nvda] Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code Factory


Hi Chris,
1. CF version is legal.
2. Sometimes we do see illegal Eloquence pop up, and this version is the one we don't allow (legal versions are allowed).
Hope this helps (and please have a long rest).
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: Christopher-Mark Gilland [mailto:clgilland07@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2016 3:25 AM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: This is the moderator speaking: [nvda] Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code Factory

This is the only Eloquence related post I'm going to send to this list, but it has 100% everything to do with what Joseph has just said. I'm neither promoting nor asking about how to get this working with Eloquence, so know that up front.

So, my question is, first, Joseph, you say that Code Factory released an addon. I guess my question is, is that addon considered to be illegal?
Second off, I'm a little bit confused. Are you saying that Eloquence is allowed, or are you saying it isn't allowed at this time on list. Further, if not allowed, please then be more specific. Are you saying it's not allowed period, or are you saying it's allowed, but only if talking about the CF version.

Sorry, your message was just a little bit vague. I've had an extremely emotionally rough night, I won't go into it more than to say, I've been crying my eyes out all night, so therefore as you can imagine, I'm incredibly tired, so perhaps my mind is a bit oblivious right now to the meaning of your message. If so, please forgive me.
---
Christopher Gilland
JAWS Certified, 2016.
Training Instructor.

clgilland07@gmail.com
Phone: (704) 256-8010.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@groups.io>
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2016 6:17 AM
Subject: Re: This is the moderator speaking: [nvda] Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code Factory


Ladies and gentlemen,

Until a few months ago, discussion of Eloquence wasn't allowed on this list.
This was relaxed last summer when Code Factory released Eloquence add-on.
Back then, Nimer and I (Nimer being the actual list owner) said discussion of illegal version isn't still permitted.
At this point, it would be advisable to suspend Eloquence discussions for a while. We cannot risk giving NVDA a slightly muddy reputation at this important occasion: NVDA's tenth anniversary and NVDACon. Please don't forget this: the reputation of a product, particularly a product that many of you depends on, depends on what users say about the product and the discussions surrounding it.
For those new to this list: I'm known for being generous. However, I'm also known for being a volcano, especially if the integrity of the list or the reputation of a product or a community is questioned. I'll not activate moderation flag for anyone out of respect for everyone and for newbies to get accustomed to this environment.
For our old friends: Yes, I am indeed serious, more serious now that we're about to help NV Access celebrate NVDA's tenth birthday. Not only I'm speaking on behalf of moderators, but as one of the planners of NVDACon 2016 (I am indeed the chair of the planning committee), I'd like to kindly request that we care about reputation of NVDA, NV Access and this community.
These days, what gives me more stress isn't the question of who will succeed me or success of NVDACon, but the reputation and future of this community for months and years to come. What gives me more joy is to see you all become folks who can think about what's going on and make informed decisions (yes, that's the reason why I've proposed certain proposals in the past).
In conclusion, I do know I will not be able to sleep tonight, but believe I need to say this: NVDA community, specifically this forum, is facing a
crisis: misinformation abounds and passion trumps reason at times. We're suffering from a disease called "misinformation" - what is illegal being seen as legal, people not being informed as to what's available to them when they need it, name calling at times and so forth (as I mentioned in my blog, I will not accept name calling). Being passionate about something is good, but it is better to think about what's going on before defending one's arguments. In other words, contrary to what we've said about this forum to the outside world, we're at times known for doing the opposite.
Lastly, in regards to free material: there is no such thing as free lunch. I do need to say this in public: NVDA isn't technically free. For the benefit of many, NVDA is made available as a free, open-source and community-driven screen reader. But there are costs associated with this project. Please stop now and imagine for a second: imagine a group of developers who have decided to promote equal access to technology at no additional costs, using their talents to give opportunities for someone who lives in poverty somewhere.
NVDA is more than a screen reader now: it's a movement, and workers deserve their wages - support, encouragement, opportunities and so on.
Thank you.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: Afrim [mailto:afrim.maja@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2016 2:43 AM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code Factory

Why do people talk about it? They can, and I don't consider it against the rules of the list since the add-on, the alternative if you like to call it is available and accessible from within the add-on list of NVDA.

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 17, 2016, at 9:33 PM, mk360 <mk.seventhson@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,

I can pay, but the first condition is that the paid versions works as
fine or better that the alternative, and as reviews as been said, that
is not the case.
However, I know that in the list we can't speak about that
alternative, so I don't understand why the people speak about it.

Regards,
mk.

El 17-04-2016 a las 8:04, Greg Wocher escribió:
Hello,
I want to give those of you who use the illegal eloquence add on some
food for thought. When you do it and proudly proclaim that you do,
you give NVDA and its users a bad reputation. I think I may purchase
the Code Factory add on later this afternoon from AT Guys and I will
let you all know if it gets rid of the choppiness.

Regards,
Greg Wocher

On 4/17/2016 5:32 AM, Peter Beasley wrote:
My sentiments exactly.

-----Original Message----- From: Afrim
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2016 6:40 AM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code
Factory

I have been using the old add-on of eloquonce someone made, and I am
not going to pay for a program that does essentially the same
thing. The add-on I am talking about works so fast and reliably.
cheers.

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 17, 2016, at 6:22 AM, Kelly Sapergia <ksapergia@sasktel.net>
wrote:

Hi,

Recently, there was a discussion about alternative voices for NVDA,
such as Code Factory's add-on with Eloquence and Vocalizer. I
mentioned that when I tried this particular product, I noticed that
Eloquence sounded quite choppy compared to other screen readers and
other synths I have for NVDA on my machine running Windows 7.
I also never experienced this with Code Factory's SAPI 5
implementation.
Anyway, I got thinking about it this evening, and decided to do
some searching to see if anyone else was experiencing similar
issues. I found a thread about the add-on in the old NVDA list's
archive, and saw a message stating that the choppiness would go
away once the product was paid for. I was just wondering if this is
indeed the case? If yes, it's not what I'd consider the best way to
limit a trial version, but I might buy it after all.

Thanks.

Yours Sincerely,
Kelly John Sapergia
Show Host and Production Director
The Global Voice Internet Radio
http://www.theglobalvoice.info

Personal Website: http://www.ksapergia.net Business Website (KJS
Productions): http://www.kjsproductions.com Follow me on Twitter
at: kjsapergia



 

Well if people don't want the legal version of eloquence.
emailing enablerehab@gmail.com and asking for their dectalk synth may be the better option.
They don't exactly sell it anymore because there is no interest however they will sell it to you for basically what its worth.
Their licence with fonix means you need to pay but there is no fixed price so pay what you want.
I put in 20 bucks for the thing but you could pay anything from 1-2 dollars up.
For those not liking eloquence this may be the better solution.
My only complaint is that some of the voices are a bit quiet volume wise.
However for about a couple mb you get every dectalk voice and language, sadly no singing but even so.

On 18/04/2016 10:33 p.m., Joseph Lee wrote:
Hi Chris,
1. CF version is legal.
2. Sometimes we do see illegal Eloquence pop up, and this version is the one we don't allow (legal versions are allowed).
Hope this helps (and please have a long rest).
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: Christopher-Mark Gilland [mailto:clgilland07@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2016 3:25 AM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: This is the moderator speaking: [nvda] Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code Factory

This is the only Eloquence related post I'm going to send to this list, but it has 100% everything to do with what Joseph has just said. I'm neither promoting nor asking about how to get this working with Eloquence, so know that up front.

So, my question is, first, Joseph, you say that Code Factory released an addon. I guess my question is, is that addon considered to be illegal?
Second off, I'm a little bit confused. Are you saying that Eloquence is allowed, or are you saying it isn't allowed at this time on list. Further, if not allowed, please then be more specific. Are you saying it's not allowed period, or are you saying it's allowed, but only if talking about the CF version.

Sorry, your message was just a little bit vague. I've had an extremely emotionally rough night, I won't go into it more than to say, I've been crying my eyes out all night, so therefore as you can imagine, I'm incredibly tired, so perhaps my mind is a bit oblivious right now to the meaning of your message. If so, please forgive me.
---
Christopher Gilland
JAWS Certified, 2016.
Training Instructor.

clgilland07@gmail.com
Phone: (704) 256-8010.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@groups.io>
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2016 6:17 AM
Subject: Re: This is the moderator speaking: [nvda] Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code Factory


Ladies and gentlemen,

Until a few months ago, discussion of Eloquence wasn't allowed on this list.
This was relaxed last summer when Code Factory released Eloquence add-on.
Back then, Nimer and I (Nimer being the actual list owner) said discussion of illegal version isn't still permitted.
At this point, it would be advisable to suspend Eloquence discussions for a while. We cannot risk giving NVDA a slightly muddy reputation at this important occasion: NVDA's tenth anniversary and NVDACon. Please don't forget this: the reputation of a product, particularly a product that many of you depends on, depends on what users say about the product and the discussions surrounding it.
For those new to this list: I'm known for being generous. However, I'm also known for being a volcano, especially if the integrity of the list or the reputation of a product or a community is questioned. I'll not activate moderation flag for anyone out of respect for everyone and for newbies to get accustomed to this environment.
For our old friends: Yes, I am indeed serious, more serious now that we're about to help NV Access celebrate NVDA's tenth birthday. Not only I'm speaking on behalf of moderators, but as one of the planners of NVDACon 2016 (I am indeed the chair of the planning committee), I'd like to kindly request that we care about reputation of NVDA, NV Access and this community.
These days, what gives me more stress isn't the question of who will succeed me or success of NVDACon, but the reputation and future of this community for months and years to come. What gives me more joy is to see you all become folks who can think about what's going on and make informed decisions (yes, that's the reason why I've proposed certain proposals in the past).
In conclusion, I do know I will not be able to sleep tonight, but believe I need to say this: NVDA community, specifically this forum, is facing a
crisis: misinformation abounds and passion trumps reason at times. We're suffering from a disease called "misinformation" - what is illegal being seen as legal, people not being informed as to what's available to them when they need it, name calling at times and so forth (as I mentioned in my blog, I will not accept name calling). Being passionate about something is good, but it is better to think about what's going on before defending one's arguments. In other words, contrary to what we've said about this forum to the outside world, we're at times known for doing the opposite.
Lastly, in regards to free material: there is no such thing as free lunch. I do need to say this in public: NVDA isn't technically free. For the benefit of many, NVDA is made available as a free, open-source and community-driven screen reader. But there are costs associated with this project. Please stop now and imagine for a second: imagine a group of developers who have decided to promote equal access to technology at no additional costs, using their talents to give opportunities for someone who lives in poverty somewhere.
NVDA is more than a screen reader now: it's a movement, and workers deserve their wages - support, encouragement, opportunities and so on.
Thank you.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: Afrim [mailto:afrim.maja@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2016 2:43 AM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code Factory

Why do people talk about it? They can, and I don't consider it against the rules of the list since the add-on, the alternative if you like to call it is available and accessible from within the add-on list of NVDA.

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 17, 2016, at 9:33 PM, mk360 <mk.seventhson@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,

I can pay, but the first condition is that the paid versions works as
fine or better that the alternative, and as reviews as been said, that
is not the case.
However, I know that in the list we can't speak about that
alternative, so I don't understand why the people speak about it.

Regards,
mk.

El 17-04-2016 a las 8:04, Greg Wocher escribió:
Hello,
I want to give those of you who use the illegal eloquence add on some
food for thought. When you do it and proudly proclaim that you do,
you give NVDA and its users a bad reputation. I think I may purchase
the Code Factory add on later this afternoon from AT Guys and I will
let you all know if it gets rid of the choppiness.

Regards,
Greg Wocher

On 4/17/2016 5:32 AM, Peter Beasley wrote:
My sentiments exactly.

-----Original Message----- From: Afrim
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2016 6:40 AM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code
Factory

I have been using the old add-on of eloquonce someone made, and I am
not going to pay for a program that does essentially the same
thing. The add-on I am talking about works so fast and reliably.
cheers.

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 17, 2016, at 6:22 AM, Kelly Sapergia <ksapergia@sasktel.net>
wrote:

Hi,

Recently, there was a discussion about alternative voices for NVDA,
such as Code Factory's add-on with Eloquence and Vocalizer. I
mentioned that when I tried this particular product, I noticed that
Eloquence sounded quite choppy compared to other screen readers and
other synths I have for NVDA on my machine running Windows 7.
I also never experienced this with Code Factory's SAPI 5
implementation.
Anyway, I got thinking about it this evening, and decided to do
some searching to see if anyone else was experiencing similar
issues. I found a thread about the add-on in the old NVDA list's
archive, and saw a message stating that the choppiness would go
away once the product was paid for. I was just wondering if this is
indeed the case? If yes, it's not what I'd consider the best way to
limit a trial version, but I might buy it after all.

Thanks.

Yours Sincerely,
Kelly John Sapergia
Show Host and Production Director
The Global Voice Internet Radio
http://www.theglobalvoice.info

Personal Website: http://www.ksapergia.net Business Website (KJS
Productions): http://www.kjsproductions.com Follow me on Twitter
at: kjsapergia













.


afrim maja <afrim.maja@...>
 

Hello Joseph,
Since I was one of the most active participants in the thread being moderated, I would like to apologise for bringing up an unwanted topic. I am extremely sorry for the inconvenience caused by my posts to the list and the moderators.
Yours sincerely,
Afrim

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 18, 2016, at 12:17 PM, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com> wrote:

Ladies and gentlemen,

Until a few months ago, discussion of Eloquence wasn't allowed on this list. This was relaxed last summer when Code Factory released Eloquence add-on. Back then, Nimer and I (Nimer being the actual list owner) said discussion of illegal version isn't still permitted.
At this point, it would be advisable to suspend Eloquence discussions for a while. We cannot risk giving NVDA a slightly muddy reputation at this important occasion: NVDA's tenth anniversary and NVDACon. Please don't forget this: the reputation of a product, particularly a product that many of you depends on, depends on what users say about the product and the discussions surrounding it.
For those new to this list: I'm known for being generous. However, I'm also known for being a volcano, especially if the integrity of the list or the reputation of a product or a community is questioned. I'll not activate moderation flag for anyone out of respect for everyone and for newbies to get accustomed to this environment.
For our old friends: Yes, I am indeed serious, more serious now that we're about to help NV Access celebrate NVDA's tenth birthday. Not only I'm speaking on behalf of moderators, but as one of the planners of NVDACon 2016 (I am indeed the chair of the planning committee), I'd like to kindly request that we care about reputation of NVDA, NV Access and this community. These days, what gives me more stress isn't the question of who will succeed me or success of NVDACon, but the reputation and future of this community for months and years to come. What gives me more joy is to see you all become folks who can think about what's going on and make informed decisions (yes, that's the reason why I've proposed certain proposals in the past).
In conclusion, I do know I will not be able to sleep tonight, but believe I need to say this: NVDA community, specifically this forum, is facing a crisis: misinformation abounds and passion trumps reason at times. We're suffering from a disease called "misinformation" - what is illegal being seen as legal, people not being informed as to what's available to them when they need it, name calling at times and so forth (as I mentioned in my blog, I will not accept name calling). Being passionate about something is good, but it is better to think about what's going on before defending one's arguments. In other words, contrary to what we've said about this forum to the outside world, we're at times known for doing the opposite.
Lastly, in regards to free material: there is no such thing as free lunch. I do need to say this in public: NVDA isn't technically free. For the benefit of many, NVDA is made available as a free, open-source and community-driven screen reader. But there are costs associated with this project. Please stop now and imagine for a second: imagine a group of developers who have decided to promote equal access to technology at no additional costs, using their talents to give opportunities for someone who lives in poverty somewhere. NVDA is more than a screen reader now: it's a movement, and workers deserve their wages - support, encouragement, opportunities and so on.
Thank you.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: Afrim [mailto:afrim.maja@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2016 2:43 AM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code Factory

Why do people talk about it? They can, and I don't consider it against the rules of the list since the add-on, the alternative if you like to call it is available and accessible from within the add-on list of NVDA.

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 17, 2016, at 9:33 PM, mk360 <mk.seventhson@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,

I can pay, but the first condition is that the paid versions works as fine or better that the alternative, and as reviews as been said, that is not the case.
However, I know that in the list we can't speak about that alternative, so I don't understand why the people speak about it.

Regards,
mk.

El 17-04-2016 a las 8:04, Greg Wocher escribió:
Hello,
I want to give those of you who use the illegal eloquence add on some food for thought. When you do it and proudly proclaim that you do, you give NVDA and its users a bad reputation. I think I may purchase the Code Factory add on later this afternoon from AT Guys and I will let you all know if it gets rid of the choppiness.

Regards,
Greg Wocher

On 4/17/2016 5:32 AM, Peter Beasley wrote:
My sentiments exactly.

-----Original Message----- From: Afrim
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2016 6:40 AM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code
Factory

I have been using the old add-on of eloquonce someone made, and I am not going to pay for a program that does essentially the same thing. The add-on I am talking about works so fast and reliably.
cheers.

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 17, 2016, at 6:22 AM, Kelly Sapergia <ksapergia@sasktel.net> wrote:

Hi,

Recently, there was a discussion about alternative voices for NVDA, such as Code Factory's add-on with Eloquence and Vocalizer. I mentioned that when I tried this particular product, I noticed that Eloquence sounded quite choppy compared to other screen readers and other synths I have for NVDA on my machine running Windows 7.
I also never experienced this with Code Factory's SAPI 5 implementation.
Anyway, I got thinking about it this evening, and decided to do some searching to see if anyone else was experiencing similar issues. I found a thread about the add-on in the old NVDA list's archive, and saw a message stating that the choppiness would go away once the product was paid for. I was just wondering if this is indeed the case? If yes, it's not what I'd consider the best way to limit a trial version, but I might buy it after all.

Thanks.

Yours Sincerely,
Kelly John Sapergia
Show Host and Production Director
The Global Voice Internet Radio
http://www.theglobalvoice.info

Personal Website: http://www.ksapergia.net Business Website (KJS
Productions): http://www.kjsproductions.com Follow me on Twitter
at: kjsapergia





Gene
 

People who are interested may want to hear a recording I made when I was evaluating this version of Dectalk.  it speaks differently enough and has a bit of a different inflection pattern as well and those interested should hear the program when deciding.  You may be able to use it as a demo but this recording may allow you to decide what you think of this version.  The original DECTalk couldn't be replicated, I think because the code was lost at some time and this is a reconstruction.  The person selling the program isn't responsible for this.  She is making available what has been supplied. 
 

The person selling this version is very friendly and it was a pleasure corresponding with her.
The link to download the samples is
The sample consists of the reading of a small part of Genesis at two different speeds.  Trying the synthesizer as you would use it may be preferable but this may give you a reasonable idea of whether you want to pursue the matter.
 
Gene

Sent: Monday, April 18, 2016 6:04 AM
Subject: Re: This is the moderator speaking: [nvda] Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code Factory

Well if people don't want the legal version of eloquence.
emailing enablerehab@... and asking for their dectalk synth may be
the better option.
They don't exactly sell it anymore because there is no interest however
they will sell it to you for basically what its worth.
Their licence with fonix means you need to pay but there is no fixed
price so pay what you want.
I put in 20 bucks for the thing but you could pay anything from 1-2
dollars up.
For those not liking eloquence this may be the better solution.
My only complaint is that some of  the voices  are a bit quiet volume wise.
However for about a couple mb you get every dectalk voice and language,
sadly no singing but even so.



On 18/04/2016 10:33 p.m., Joseph Lee wrote:
> Hi Chris,
> 1. CF version is legal.
> 2. Sometimes we do see illegal Eloquence pop up, and this version is the one we don't allow (legal versions are allowed).
> Hope this helps (and please have a long rest).
> Cheers,
> Joseph
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Christopher-Mark Gilland [mailto:clgilland07@...]
> Sent: Monday, April 18, 2016 3:25 AM
> To: nvda@groups.io
> Subject: Re: This is the moderator speaking: [nvda] Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code Factory
>
> This is the only Eloquence related post I'm going to send to this list, but it has 100% everything to do with what Joseph has just said.  I'm neither promoting nor asking about how to get this working with Eloquence, so know that up front.
>
> So, my question is, first, Joseph, you say that Code Factory released an addon.  I guess my question is, is that addon considered to be illegal?
> Second off, I'm a little bit confused.  Are you saying that Eloquence is allowed, or are you saying it isn't allowed at this time on list.  Further, if not allowed, please then be more specific.  Are you saying it's not allowed period, or are you saying it's allowed, but only if talking about the CF version.
>
> Sorry, your message was just a little bit vague.  I've had an extremely emotionally rough night, I won't go into it more than to say, I've been crying my eyes out all night, so therefore as you can imagine, I'm incredibly tired, so perhaps my mind is a bit oblivious right now to the meaning of your message.  If so, please forgive me.
> ---
> Christopher Gilland
> JAWS Certified, 2016.
> Training Instructor.
>
> clgilland07@...
> Phone: (704) 256-8010.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@...>
> To: <nvda@groups.io>
> Sent: Monday, April 18, 2016 6:17 AM
> Subject: Re: This is the moderator speaking: [nvda] Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code Factory
>
>
> Ladies and gentlemen,
>
> Until a few months ago, discussion of Eloquence wasn't allowed on this list.
> This was relaxed last summer when Code Factory released Eloquence add-on.
> Back then, Nimer and I (Nimer being the actual list owner) said discussion of illegal version isn't still permitted.
> At this point, it would be advisable to suspend Eloquence discussions for a while. We cannot risk giving NVDA a slightly muddy reputation at this important occasion: NVDA's tenth anniversary and NVDACon. Please don't forget this: the reputation of a product, particularly a product that many of you depends on, depends on what users say about the product and the discussions surrounding it.
> For those new to this list: I'm known for being generous. However, I'm also known for being a volcano, especially if the integrity of the list or the reputation of a product or a community is questioned. I'll not activate moderation flag for anyone out of respect for everyone and for newbies to get accustomed to this environment.
> For our old friends: Yes, I am indeed serious, more serious now that we're about to help NV Access celebrate NVDA's tenth birthday. Not only I'm speaking on behalf of moderators, but as one of the planners of NVDACon 2016 (I am indeed the chair of the planning committee), I'd like to kindly request that we care about reputation of NVDA, NV Access and this community.
> These days, what gives me more stress isn't the question of who will succeed me or success of NVDACon, but the reputation and future of this community for months and years to come. What gives me more joy is to see you all become folks who can think about what's going on and make informed decisions (yes, that's the reason why I've proposed certain proposals in the past).
> In conclusion, I do know I will not be able to sleep tonight, but believe I need to say this: NVDA community, specifically this forum, is facing a
> crisis: misinformation abounds and passion trumps reason at times. We're suffering from a disease called "misinformation" - what is illegal being seen as legal, people not being informed as to what's available to them when they need it, name calling at times and so forth (as I mentioned in my blog, I will not accept name calling). Being passionate about something is good, but it is better to think about what's going on before defending one's arguments. In other words, contrary to what we've said about this forum to the outside world, we're at times known for doing the opposite.
> Lastly, in regards to free material: there is no such thing as free lunch. I do need to say this in public: NVDA isn't technically free. For the benefit of many, NVDA is made available as a free, open-source and community-driven screen reader. But there are costs associated with this project. Please stop now and imagine for a second: imagine a group of developers who have decided to promote equal access to technology at no additional costs, using their talents to give opportunities for someone who lives in poverty somewhere.
> NVDA is more than a screen reader now: it's a movement, and workers deserve their wages - support, encouragement, opportunities and so on.
> Thank you.
> Cheers,
> Joseph
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Afrim [mailto:afrim.maja@...]
> Sent: Monday, April 18, 2016 2:43 AM
> To: nvda@groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code Factory
>
> Why do people talk about it? They can, and I don't consider it against the rules of the list since the add-on, the alternative if you like to call it is available and accessible from within the add-on list of NVDA.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Apr 17, 2016, at 9:33 PM, mk360 <mk.seventhson@...> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I can pay, but the first condition is that the paid versions works as
>> fine or better that the alternative, and as reviews as been said, that
>> is not the case.
>> However, I know that in the list we can't speak about that
>> alternative, so I don't understand why the people speak about it.
>>
>> Regards,
>> mk.
>>
>>> El 17-04-2016 a las 8:04, Greg Wocher escribió:
>>> Hello,
>>> I want to give those of you who use the illegal eloquence add on some
>>> food for thought. When you do it and proudly proclaim that you do,
>>> you give NVDA and its users a bad reputation. I think I may purchase
>>> the Code Factory add on later this afternoon from AT Guys and I will
>>> let you all know if it gets rid of the choppiness.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Greg Wocher
>>>
>>>> On 4/17/2016 5:32 AM, Peter Beasley wrote:
>>>> My sentiments exactly.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Afrim
>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2016 6:40 AM
>>>> To: nvda@groups.io
>>>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code
>>>> Factory
>>>>
>>>> I have been using the old add-on of eloquonce someone made, and I am
>>>> not going to pay for a program  that does essentially the same
>>>> thing. The add-on I am talking about works so fast and reliably.
>>>> cheers.
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>>> On Apr 17, 2016, at 6:22 AM, Kelly Sapergia <ksapergia@...>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> Recently, there was a discussion about alternative voices for NVDA,
>>>>> such as Code Factory's add-on with Eloquence and Vocalizer. I
>>>>> mentioned that when I tried this particular product, I noticed that
>>>>> Eloquence sounded quite choppy compared to other screen readers and
>>>>> other synths I have for NVDA on my machine running Windows 7.
>>>>> I also never experienced this with Code Factory's SAPI 5
>>>>> implementation.
>>>>> Anyway, I got thinking about it this evening, and decided to do
>>>>> some searching to see if anyone else was experiencing similar
>>>>> issues. I found a thread about the add-on in the old NVDA list's
>>>>> archive, and saw a message stating that the choppiness would go
>>>>> away once the product was paid for. I was just wondering if this is
>>>>> indeed the case? If yes, it's not what I'd consider the best way to
>>>>> limit a trial version, but I might buy it after all.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yours Sincerely,
>>>>> Kelly John Sapergia
>>>>> Show Host and Production Director
>>>>> The Global Voice Internet Radio
>>>>> http://www.theglobalvoice.info
>>>>>
>>>>> Personal Website: http://www.ksapergia.net Business Website (KJS
>>>>> Productions): http://www.kjsproductions.com Follow me on Twitter
>>>>> at: kjsapergia
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> .
>



Christopher-Mark Gilland <clgilland07@...>
 


Yeah... thanks for the demo.  Ewww!  I can't put my finger on it, but it sounds like someone taking a volume control fader and just yanking it up and down 90 miles and hour.  It kind of gives it a trimalo effect.  Kind a like what you hear on the guitars in the song Crimson and Clover.  I think I'll be passing on this one, but thanks for sharing, nonetheless.
---
Christopher Gilland
JAWS Certified, 2016.
Training Instructor.
 
clgilland07@...
Phone: (704) 256-8010.

----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2016 8:40 AM
Subject: Re: This is the moderator speaking: [nvda] Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code Factory

People who are interested may want to hear a recording I made when I was evaluating this version of Dectalk.  it speaks differently enough and has a bit of a different inflection pattern as well and those interested should hear the program when deciding.  You may be able to use it as a demo but this recording may allow you to decide what you think of this version.  The original DECTalk couldn't be replicated, I think because the code was lost at some time and this is a reconstruction.  The person selling the program isn't responsible for this.  She is making available what has been supplied. 
 

The person selling this version is very friendly and it was a pleasure corresponding with her.
The link to download the samples is
The sample consists of the reading of a small part of Genesis at two different speeds.  Trying the synthesizer as you would use it may be preferable but this may give you a reasonable idea of whether you want to pursue the matter.
 
Gene

Sent: Monday, April 18, 2016 6:04 AM
Subject: Re: This is the moderator speaking: [nvda] Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code Factory

Well if people don't want the legal version of eloquence.
emailing enablerehab@... and asking for their dectalk synth may be
the better option.
They don't exactly sell it anymore because there is no interest however
they will sell it to you for basically what its worth.
Their licence with fonix means you need to pay but there is no fixed
price so pay what you want.
I put in 20 bucks for the thing but you could pay anything from 1-2
dollars up.
For those not liking eloquence this may be the better solution.
My only complaint is that some of  the voices  are a bit quiet volume wise.
However for about a couple mb you get every dectalk voice and language,
sadly no singing but even so.



On 18/04/2016 10:33 p.m., Joseph Lee wrote:
> Hi Chris,
> 1. CF version is legal.
> 2. Sometimes we do see illegal Eloquence pop up, and this version is the one we don't allow (legal versions are allowed).
> Hope this helps (and please have a long rest).
> Cheers,
> Joseph
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Christopher-Mark Gilland [mailto:clgilland07@...]
> Sent: Monday, April 18, 2016 3:25 AM
> To: nvda@groups.io
> Subject: Re: This is the moderator speaking: [nvda] Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code Factory
>
> This is the only Eloquence related post I'm going to send to this list, but it has 100% everything to do with what Joseph has just said.  I'm neither promoting nor asking about how to get this working with Eloquence, so know that up front.
>
> So, my question is, first, Joseph, you say that Code Factory released an addon.  I guess my question is, is that addon considered to be illegal?
> Second off, I'm a little bit confused.  Are you saying that Eloquence is allowed, or are you saying it isn't allowed at this time on list.  Further, if not allowed, please then be more specific.  Are you saying it's not allowed period, or are you saying it's allowed, but only if talking about the CF version.
>
> Sorry, your message was just a little bit vague.  I've had an extremely emotionally rough night, I won't go into it more than to say, I've been crying my eyes out all night, so therefore as you can imagine, I'm incredibly tired, so perhaps my mind is a bit oblivious right now to the meaning of your message.  If so, please forgive me.
> ---
> Christopher Gilland
> JAWS Certified, 2016.
> Training Instructor.
>
> clgilland07@...
> Phone: (704) 256-8010.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@...>
> To: <nvda@groups.io>
> Sent: Monday, April 18, 2016 6:17 AM
> Subject: Re: This is the moderator speaking: [nvda] Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code Factory
>
>
> Ladies and gentlemen,
>
> Until a few months ago, discussion of Eloquence wasn't allowed on this list.
> This was relaxed last summer when Code Factory released Eloquence add-on.
> Back then, Nimer and I (Nimer being the actual list owner) said discussion of illegal version isn't still permitted.
> At this point, it would be advisable to suspend Eloquence discussions for a while. We cannot risk giving NVDA a slightly muddy reputation at this important occasion: NVDA's tenth anniversary and NVDACon. Please don't forget this: the reputation of a product, particularly a product that many of you depends on, depends on what users say about the product and the discussions surrounding it.
> For those new to this list: I'm known for being generous. However, I'm also known for being a volcano, especially if the integrity of the list or the reputation of a product or a community is questioned. I'll not activate moderation flag for anyone out of respect for everyone and for newbies to get accustomed to this environment.
> For our old friends: Yes, I am indeed serious, more serious now that we're about to help NV Access celebrate NVDA's tenth birthday. Not only I'm speaking on behalf of moderators, but as one of the planners of NVDACon 2016 (I am indeed the chair of the planning committee), I'd like to kindly request that we care about reputation of NVDA, NV Access and this community.
> These days, what gives me more stress isn't the question of who will succeed me or success of NVDACon, but the reputation and future of this community for months and years to come. What gives me more joy is to see you all become folks who can think about what's going on and make informed decisions (yes, that's the reason why I've proposed certain proposals in the past).
> In conclusion, I do know I will not be able to sleep tonight, but believe I need to say this: NVDA community, specifically this forum, is facing a
> crisis: misinformation abounds and passion trumps reason at times. We're suffering from a disease called "misinformation" - what is illegal being seen as legal, people not being informed as to what's available to them when they need it, name calling at times and so forth (as I mentioned in my blog, I will not accept name calling). Being passionate about something is good, but it is better to think about what's going on before defending one's arguments. In other words, contrary to what we've said about this forum to the outside world, we're at times known for doing the opposite.
> Lastly, in regards to free material: there is no such thing as free lunch. I do need to say this in public: NVDA isn't technically free. For the benefit of many, NVDA is made available as a free, open-source and community-driven screen reader. But there are costs associated with this project. Please stop now and imagine for a second: imagine a group of developers who have decided to promote equal access to technology at no additional costs, using their talents to give opportunities for someone who lives in poverty somewhere.
> NVDA is more than a screen reader now: it's a movement, and workers deserve their wages - support, encouragement, opportunities and so on.
> Thank you.
> Cheers,
> Joseph
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Afrim [mailto:afrim.maja@...]
> Sent: Monday, April 18, 2016 2:43 AM
> To: nvda@groups.io
> Subject: Re: [nvda] Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code Factory
>
> Why do people talk about it? They can, and I don't consider it against the rules of the list since the add-on, the alternative if you like to call it is available and accessible from within the add-on list of NVDA.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Apr 17, 2016, at 9:33 PM, mk360 <mk.seventhson@...> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I can pay, but the first condition is that the paid versions works as
>> fine or better that the alternative, and as reviews as been said, that
>> is not the case.
>> However, I know that in the list we can't speak about that
>> alternative, so I don't understand why the people speak about it.
>>
>> Regards,
>> mk.
>>
>>> El 17-04-2016 a las 8:04, Greg Wocher escribió:
>>> Hello,
>>> I want to give those of you who use the illegal eloquence add on some
>>> food for thought. When you do it and proudly proclaim that you do,
>>> you give NVDA and its users a bad reputation. I think I may purchase
>>> the Code Factory add on later this afternoon from AT Guys and I will
>>> let you all know if it gets rid of the choppiness.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Greg Wocher
>>>
>>>> On 4/17/2016 5:32 AM, Peter Beasley wrote:
>>>> My sentiments exactly.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Afrim
>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2016 6:40 AM
>>>> To: nvda@groups.io
>>>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code
>>>> Factory
>>>>
>>>> I have been using the old add-on of eloquonce someone made, and I am
>>>> not going to pay for a program  that does essentially the same
>>>> thing. The add-on I am talking about works so fast and reliably.
>>>> cheers.
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>>> On Apr 17, 2016, at 6:22 AM, Kelly Sapergia <ksapergia@...>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> Recently, there was a discussion about alternative voices for NVDA,
>>>>> such as Code Factory's add-on with Eloquence and Vocalizer. I
>>>>> mentioned that when I tried this particular product, I noticed that
>>>>> Eloquence sounded quite choppy compared to other screen readers and
>>>>> other synths I have for NVDA on my machine running Windows 7.
>>>>> I also never experienced this with Code Factory's SAPI 5
>>>>> implementation.
>>>>> Anyway, I got thinking about it this evening, and decided to do
>>>>> some searching to see if anyone else was experiencing similar
>>>>> issues. I found a thread about the add-on in the old NVDA list's
>>>>> archive, and saw a message stating that the choppiness would go
>>>>> away once the product was paid for. I was just wondering if this is
>>>>> indeed the case? If yes, it's not what I'd consider the best way to
>>>>> limit a trial version, but I might buy it after all.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yours Sincerely,
>>>>> Kelly John Sapergia
>>>>> Show Host and Production Director
>>>>> The Global Voice Internet Radio
>>>>> http://www.theglobalvoice.info
>>>>>
>>>>> Personal Website: http://www.ksapergia.net Business Website (KJS
>>>>> Productions): http://www.kjsproductions.com Follow me on Twitter
>>>>> at: kjsapergia
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> .
>



 

Hi,
No need to apologize.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: Afrim [mailto:afrim.maja@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2016 4:16 AM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: This is the moderator speaking: [nvda] Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code Factory

Hello Joseph,
Since I was one of the most active participants in the thread being moderated, I would like to apologise for bringing up an unwanted topic. I am extremely sorry for the inconvenience caused by my posts to the list and the moderators.
Yours sincerely,
Afrim

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 18, 2016, at 12:17 PM, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com> wrote:

Ladies and gentlemen,

Until a few months ago, discussion of Eloquence wasn't allowed on this list. This was relaxed last summer when Code Factory released Eloquence add-on. Back then, Nimer and I (Nimer being the actual list owner) said discussion of illegal version isn't still permitted.
At this point, it would be advisable to suspend Eloquence discussions for a while. We cannot risk giving NVDA a slightly muddy reputation at this important occasion: NVDA's tenth anniversary and NVDACon. Please don't forget this: the reputation of a product, particularly a product that many of you depends on, depends on what users say about the product and the discussions surrounding it.
For those new to this list: I'm known for being generous. However, I'm also known for being a volcano, especially if the integrity of the list or the reputation of a product or a community is questioned. I'll not activate moderation flag for anyone out of respect for everyone and for newbies to get accustomed to this environment.
For our old friends: Yes, I am indeed serious, more serious now that we're about to help NV Access celebrate NVDA's tenth birthday. Not only I'm speaking on behalf of moderators, but as one of the planners of NVDACon 2016 (I am indeed the chair of the planning committee), I'd like to kindly request that we care about reputation of NVDA, NV Access and this community. These days, what gives me more stress isn't the question of who will succeed me or success of NVDACon, but the reputation and future of this community for months and years to come. What gives me more joy is to see you all become folks who can think about what's going on and make informed decisions (yes, that's the reason why I've proposed certain proposals in the past).
In conclusion, I do know I will not be able to sleep tonight, but believe I need to say this: NVDA community, specifically this forum, is facing a crisis: misinformation abounds and passion trumps reason at times. We're suffering from a disease called "misinformation" - what is illegal being seen as legal, people not being informed as to what's available to them when they need it, name calling at times and so forth (as I mentioned in my blog, I will not accept name calling). Being passionate about something is good, but it is better to think about what's going on before defending one's arguments. In other words, contrary to what we've said about this forum to the outside world, we're at times known for doing the opposite.
Lastly, in regards to free material: there is no such thing as free lunch. I do need to say this in public: NVDA isn't technically free. For the benefit of many, NVDA is made available as a free, open-source and community-driven screen reader. But there are costs associated with this project. Please stop now and imagine for a second: imagine a group of developers who have decided to promote equal access to technology at no additional costs, using their talents to give opportunities for someone who lives in poverty somewhere. NVDA is more than a screen reader now: it's a movement, and workers deserve their wages - support, encouragement, opportunities and so on.
Thank you.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: Afrim [mailto:afrim.maja@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2016 2:43 AM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code
Factory

Why do people talk about it? They can, and I don't consider it against the rules of the list since the add-on, the alternative if you like to call it is available and accessible from within the add-on list of NVDA.

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 17, 2016, at 9:33 PM, mk360 <mk.seventhson@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,

I can pay, but the first condition is that the paid versions works as fine or better that the alternative, and as reviews as been said, that is not the case.
However, I know that in the list we can't speak about that alternative, so I don't understand why the people speak about it.

Regards,
mk.

El 17-04-2016 a las 8:04, Greg Wocher escribió:
Hello,
I want to give those of you who use the illegal eloquence add on some food for thought. When you do it and proudly proclaim that you do, you give NVDA and its users a bad reputation. I think I may purchase the Code Factory add on later this afternoon from AT Guys and I will let you all know if it gets rid of the choppiness.

Regards,
Greg Wocher

On 4/17/2016 5:32 AM, Peter Beasley wrote:
My sentiments exactly.

-----Original Message----- From: Afrim
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2016 6:40 AM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code
Factory

I have been using the old add-on of eloquonce someone made, and I am not going to pay for a program that does essentially the same thing. The add-on I am talking about works so fast and reliably.
cheers.

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 17, 2016, at 6:22 AM, Kelly Sapergia <ksapergia@sasktel.net> wrote:

Hi,

Recently, there was a discussion about alternative voices for NVDA, such as Code Factory's add-on with Eloquence and Vocalizer. I mentioned that when I tried this particular product, I noticed that Eloquence sounded quite choppy compared to other screen readers and other synths I have for NVDA on my machine running Windows 7.
I also never experienced this with Code Factory's SAPI 5 implementation.
Anyway, I got thinking about it this evening, and decided to do some searching to see if anyone else was experiencing similar issues. I found a thread about the add-on in the old NVDA list's archive, and saw a message stating that the choppiness would go away once the product was paid for. I was just wondering if this is indeed the case? If yes, it's not what I'd consider the best way to limit a trial version, but I might buy it after all.

Thanks.

Yours Sincerely,
Kelly John Sapergia
Show Host and Production Director
The Global Voice Internet Radio
http://www.theglobalvoice.info

Personal Website: http://www.ksapergia.net Business Website (KJS
Productions): http://www.kjsproductions.com Follow me on Twitter
at: kjsapergia





Pete <emac00@...>
 

Hi
I think the synthesizers that come with some audio / sound cards need to be looked at by screen reader developers. Like I mentioned earlier textassist is quite a good synthesizer. The thing people kept saying sapi 3 was junk / old use sapi 4. It's kind of like the whole e-mail thing with people wanting to use outlook express except people keep telling them to use Thunderbird or Microsoft outlook or window live mail or some thing like that. That kind of behavior doesn't encourage freedom of choice. What if we were all told we would have to use Winkline for the rest of our lives for a screen reader? May be now a days less software gets bundled with sound cards plus most p c s have on board audio.
Pete

On 4/18/2016 6:17 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:
Ladies and gentlemen,

Until a few months ago, discussion of Eloquence wasn't allowed on this list. This was relaxed last summer when Code Factory released Eloquence add-on. Back then, Nimer and I (Nimer being the actual list owner) said discussion of illegal version isn't still permitted.
At this point, it would be advisable to suspend Eloquence discussions for a while. We cannot risk giving NVDA a slightly muddy reputation at this important occasion: NVDA's tenth anniversary and NVDACon. Please don't forget this: the reputation of a product, particularly a product that many of you depends on, depends on what users say about the product and the discussions surrounding it.
For those new to this list: I'm known for being generous. However, I'm also known for being a volcano, especially if the integrity of the list or the reputation of a product or a community is questioned. I'll not activate moderation flag for anyone out of respect for everyone and for newbies to get accustomed to this environment.
For our old friends: Yes, I am indeed serious, more serious now that we're about to help NV Access celebrate NVDA's tenth birthday. Not only I'm speaking on behalf of moderators, but as one of the planners of NVDACon 2016 (I am indeed the chair of the planning committee), I'd like to kindly request that we care about reputation of NVDA, NV Access and this community. These days, what gives me more stress isn't the question of who will succeed me or success of NVDACon, but the reputation and future of this community for months and years to come. What gives me more joy is to see you all become folks who can think about what's going on and make informed decisions (yes, that's the reason why I've proposed certain proposals in the past).
In conclusion, I do know I will not be able to sleep tonight, but believe I need to say this: NVDA community, specifically this forum, is facing a crisis: misinformation abounds and passion trumps reason at times. We're suffering from a disease called "misinformation" - what is illegal being seen as legal, people not being informed as to what's available to them when they need it, name calling at times and so forth (as I mentioned in my blog, I will not accept name calling). Being passionate about something is good, but it is better to think about what's going on before defending one's arguments. In other words, contrary to what we've said about this forum to the outside world, we're at times known for doing the opposite.
Lastly, in regards to free material: there is no such thing as free lunch. I do need to say this in public: NVDA isn't technically free. For the benefit of many, NVDA is made available as a free, open-source and community-driven screen reader. But there are costs associated with this project. Please stop now and imagine for a second: imagine a group of developers who have decided to promote equal access to technology at no additional costs, using their talents to give opportunities for someone who lives in poverty somewhere. NVDA is more than a screen reader now: it's a movement, and workers deserve their wages - support, encouragement, opportunities and so on.
Thank you.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: Afrim [mailto:afrim.maja@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2016 2:43 AM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code Factory

Why do people talk about it? They can, and I don't consider it against the rules of the list since the add-on, the alternative if you like to call it is available and accessible from within the add-on list of NVDA.

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 17, 2016, at 9:33 PM, mk360 <mk.seventhson@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,

I can pay, but the first condition is that the paid versions works as fine or better that the alternative, and as reviews as been said, that is not the case.
However, I know that in the list we can't speak about that alternative, so I don't understand why the people speak about it.

Regards,
mk.

El 17-04-2016 a las 8:04, Greg Wocher escribió:
Hello,
I want to give those of you who use the illegal eloquence add on some food for thought. When you do it and proudly proclaim that you do, you give NVDA and its users a bad reputation. I think I may purchase the Code Factory add on later this afternoon from AT Guys and I will let you all know if it gets rid of the choppiness.

Regards,
Greg Wocher

On 4/17/2016 5:32 AM, Peter Beasley wrote:
My sentiments exactly.

-----Original Message----- From: Afrim
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2016 6:40 AM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code
Factory

I have been using the old add-on of eloquonce someone made, and I am not going to pay for a program that does essentially the same thing. The add-on I am talking about works so fast and reliably.
cheers.

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 17, 2016, at 6:22 AM, Kelly Sapergia <ksapergia@sasktel.net> wrote:

Hi,

Recently, there was a discussion about alternative voices for NVDA, such as Code Factory's add-on with Eloquence and Vocalizer. I mentioned that when I tried this particular product, I noticed that Eloquence sounded quite choppy compared to other screen readers and other synths I have for NVDA on my machine running Windows 7.
I also never experienced this with Code Factory's SAPI 5 implementation.
Anyway, I got thinking about it this evening, and decided to do some searching to see if anyone else was experiencing similar issues. I found a thread about the add-on in the old NVDA list's archive, and saw a message stating that the choppiness would go away once the product was paid for. I was just wondering if this is indeed the case? If yes, it's not what I'd consider the best way to limit a trial version, but I might buy it after all.

Thanks.

Yours Sincerely,
Kelly John Sapergia
Show Host and Production Director
The Global Voice Internet Radio
http://www.theglobalvoice.info

Personal Website: http://www.ksapergia.net Business Website (KJS
Productions): http://www.kjsproductions.com Follow me on Twitter
at: kjsapergia





mr. Chikodinaka Oguledo&mrs. AdonnihHappiness Obima Oguledo
 

any other voices I can use bsides the jaws voice. I need Somantha for
nvda &others like Jill &rail speak solo voices free ones

On 4/18/16, Pete <emac00@cogeco.ca> wrote:

Hi
I think the synthesizers that come with some audio / sound cards need
to be looked at by screen reader developers. Like I mentioned earlier
textassist is quite a good synthesizer. The thing people kept saying
sapi 3 was junk / old use sapi 4. It's kind of like the whole e-mail
thing with people wanting to use outlook express except people keep
telling them to use Thunderbird or Microsoft outlook or window live mail
or some thing like that. That kind of behavior doesn't encourage freedom
of choice. What if we were all told we would have to use Winkline for
the rest of our lives for a screen reader? May be now a days less
software gets bundled with sound cards plus most p c s have on board audio.
Pete
On 4/18/2016 6:17 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:
Ladies and gentlemen,

Until a few months ago, discussion of Eloquence wasn't allowed on this
list. This was relaxed last summer when Code Factory released Eloquence
add-on. Back then, Nimer and I (Nimer being the actual list owner) said
discussion of illegal version isn't still permitted.
At this point, it would be advisable to suspend Eloquence discussions for
a while. We cannot risk giving NVDA a slightly muddy reputation at this
important occasion: NVDA's tenth anniversary and NVDACon. Please don't
forget this: the reputation of a product, particularly a product that many
of you depends on, depends on what users say about the product and the
discussions surrounding it.
For those new to this list: I'm known for being generous. However, I'm
also known for being a volcano, especially if the integrity of the list or
the reputation of a product or a community is questioned. I'll not
activate moderation flag for anyone out of respect for everyone and for
newbies to get accustomed to this environment.
For our old friends: Yes, I am indeed serious, more serious now that we're
about to help NV Access celebrate NVDA's tenth birthday. Not only I'm
speaking on behalf of moderators, but as one of the planners of NVDACon
2016 (I am indeed the chair of the planning committee), I'd like to kindly
request that we care about reputation of NVDA, NV Access and this
community. These days, what gives me more stress isn't the question of who
will succeed me or success of NVDACon, but the reputation and future of
this community for months and years to come. What gives me more joy is to
see you all become folks who can think about what's going on and make
informed decisions (yes, that's the reason why I've proposed certain
proposals in the past).
In conclusion, I do know I will not be able to sleep tonight, but believe
I need to say this: NVDA community, specifically this forum, is facing a
crisis: misinformation abounds and passion trumps reason at times. We're
suffering from a disease called "misinformation" - what is illegal being
seen as legal, people not being informed as to what's available to them
when they need it, name calling at times and so forth (as I mentioned in
my blog, I will not accept name calling). Being passionate about something
is good, but it is better to think about what's going on before defending
one's arguments. In other words, contrary to what we've said about this
forum to the outside world, we're at times known for doing the opposite.
Lastly, in regards to free material: there is no such thing as free lunch.
I do need to say this in public: NVDA isn't technically free. For the
benefit of many, NVDA is made available as a free, open-source and
community-driven screen reader. But there are costs associated with this
project. Please stop now and imagine for a second: imagine a group of
developers who have decided to promote equal access to technology at no
additional costs, using their talents to give opportunities for someone
who lives in poverty somewhere. NVDA is more than a screen reader now:
it's a movement, and workers deserve their wages - support, encouragement,
opportunities and so on.
Thank you.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: Afrim [mailto:afrim.maja@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2016 2:43 AM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code
Factory

Why do people talk about it? They can, and I don't consider it against the
rules of the list since the add-on, the alternative if you like to call it
is available and accessible from within the add-on list of NVDA.

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 17, 2016, at 9:33 PM, mk360 <mk.seventhson@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,

I can pay, but the first condition is that the paid versions works as
fine or better that the alternative, and as reviews as been said, that is
not the case.
However, I know that in the list we can't speak about that alternative,
so I don't understand why the people speak about it.

Regards,
mk.

El 17-04-2016 a las 8:04, Greg Wocher escribió:
Hello,
I want to give those of you who use the illegal eloquence add on some
food for thought. When you do it and proudly proclaim that you do, you
give NVDA and its users a bad reputation. I think I may purchase the
Code Factory add on later this afternoon from AT Guys and I will let you
all know if it gets rid of the choppiness.

Regards,
Greg Wocher

On 4/17/2016 5:32 AM, Peter Beasley wrote:
My sentiments exactly.

-----Original Message----- From: Afrim
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2016 6:40 AM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code
Factory

I have been using the old add-on of eloquonce someone made, and I am
not going to pay for a program that does essentially the same thing.
The add-on I am talking about works so fast and reliably.
cheers.

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 17, 2016, at 6:22 AM, Kelly Sapergia <ksapergia@sasktel.net>
wrote:

Hi,

Recently, there was a discussion about alternative voices for NVDA,
such as Code Factory's add-on with Eloquence and Vocalizer. I
mentioned that when I tried this particular product, I noticed that
Eloquence sounded quite choppy compared to other screen readers and
other synths I have for NVDA on my machine running Windows 7.
I also never experienced this with Code Factory's SAPI 5
implementation.
Anyway, I got thinking about it this evening, and decided to do some
searching to see if anyone else was experiencing similar issues. I
found a thread about the add-on in the old NVDA list's archive, and
saw a message stating that the choppiness would go away once the
product was paid for. I was just wondering if this is indeed the case?
If yes, it's not what I'd consider the best way to limit a trial
version, but I might buy it after all.

Thanks.

Yours Sincerely,
Kelly John Sapergia
Show Host and Production Director
The Global Voice Internet Radio
http://www.theglobalvoice.info

Personal Website: http://www.ksapergia.net Business Website (KJS
Productions): http://www.kjsproductions.com Follow me on Twitter
at: kjsapergia








--
• Watch your thoughts, for they become words.
Watch your words, for they become actions.
Watch your actions, for they become habits.
Watch your habits, for they become character.
Watch your character, for it becomes your destiny.


 

Pete wrote, "It's kind of like the whole e-mail thing with people wanting to use outlook express except people keep telling them to use Thunderbird or Microsoft outlook or window live mail or some thing like that."

This isn't a "freedom of choice" issue, it's a simple fact of life that certain programs, Outlook Express being one example, effectively cease to exist when official support ends.  No one is guaranteed, nor should they expect, that anything that they're using will be available in perpetuity.

I discourage people from using Outlook Express because the only existing versions available are hacks based on who knows what code base and with what vulnerabilities.  Since e-mail clients constantly interact with the internet this is a real concern.

While such a concern is not present regarding voice synthesis, things will come, and go, in that arena as well.  There is very likely going to come a point where you, for any you, have to let go of something you're used to because it is not being supported or carried forward.  Getting used to this, even though it's painful, is essential in the cyber world unless you want to drive yourself crazy.  I've seen a lot of people over the years who have expended far more energy trying to hold on to something than would have been expended to learn the new that's available to them.

Brian


Pete <emac00@...>
 

Some people like the speech player ad don, it gives more flexibility in the way one can configure voices.
It's been a while since I searched around for software synthesizers.
I have an old i s a DEC talk board along with an accent p c and doubletalk p c. I picked up an old DEC express a while ago.

On 4/18/2016 2:09 PM, mr. Chikodinaka Oguledo&mrs. AdonnihHappiness Obima Oguledo wrote:
any other voices I can use bsides the jaws voice. I need Somantha for
nvda &others like Jill &rail speak solo voices free ones

On 4/18/16, Pete <emac00@cogeco.ca> wrote:
Hi
I think the synthesizers that come with some audio / sound cards need
to be looked at by screen reader developers. Like I mentioned earlier
textassist is quite a good synthesizer. The thing people kept saying
sapi 3 was junk / old use sapi 4. It's kind of like the whole e-mail
thing with people wanting to use outlook express except people keep
telling them to use Thunderbird or Microsoft outlook or window live mail
or some thing like that. That kind of behavior doesn't encourage freedom
of choice. What if we were all told we would have to use Winkline for
the rest of our lives for a screen reader? May be now a days less
software gets bundled with sound cards plus most p c s have on board audio.
Pete
On 4/18/2016 6:17 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:
Ladies and gentlemen,

Until a few months ago, discussion of Eloquence wasn't allowed on this
list. This was relaxed last summer when Code Factory released Eloquence
add-on. Back then, Nimer and I (Nimer being the actual list owner) said
discussion of illegal version isn't still permitted.
At this point, it would be advisable to suspend Eloquence discussions for
a while. We cannot risk giving NVDA a slightly muddy reputation at this
important occasion: NVDA's tenth anniversary and NVDACon. Please don't
forget this: the reputation of a product, particularly a product that many
of you depends on, depends on what users say about the product and the
discussions surrounding it.
For those new to this list: I'm known for being generous. However, I'm
also known for being a volcano, especially if the integrity of the list or
the reputation of a product or a community is questioned. I'll not
activate moderation flag for anyone out of respect for everyone and for
newbies to get accustomed to this environment.
For our old friends: Yes, I am indeed serious, more serious now that we're
about to help NV Access celebrate NVDA's tenth birthday. Not only I'm
speaking on behalf of moderators, but as one of the planners of NVDACon
2016 (I am indeed the chair of the planning committee), I'd like to kindly
request that we care about reputation of NVDA, NV Access and this
community. These days, what gives me more stress isn't the question of who
will succeed me or success of NVDACon, but the reputation and future of
this community for months and years to come. What gives me more joy is to
see you all become folks who can think about what's going on and make
informed decisions (yes, that's the reason why I've proposed certain
proposals in the past).
In conclusion, I do know I will not be able to sleep tonight, but believe
I need to say this: NVDA community, specifically this forum, is facing a
crisis: misinformation abounds and passion trumps reason at times. We're
suffering from a disease called "misinformation" - what is illegal being
seen as legal, people not being informed as to what's available to them
when they need it, name calling at times and so forth (as I mentioned in
my blog, I will not accept name calling). Being passionate about something
is good, but it is better to think about what's going on before defending
one's arguments. In other words, contrary to what we've said about this
forum to the outside world, we're at times known for doing the opposite.
Lastly, in regards to free material: there is no such thing as free lunch.
I do need to say this in public: NVDA isn't technically free. For the
benefit of many, NVDA is made available as a free, open-source and
community-driven screen reader. But there are costs associated with this
project. Please stop now and imagine for a second: imagine a group of
developers who have decided to promote equal access to technology at no
additional costs, using their talents to give opportunities for someone
who lives in poverty somewhere. NVDA is more than a screen reader now:
it's a movement, and workers deserve their wages - support, encouragement,
opportunities and so on.
Thank you.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: Afrim [mailto:afrim.maja@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2016 2:43 AM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code
Factory

Why do people talk about it? They can, and I don't consider it against the
rules of the list since the add-on, the alternative if you like to call it
is available and accessible from within the add-on list of NVDA.

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 17, 2016, at 9:33 PM, mk360 <mk.seventhson@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,

I can pay, but the first condition is that the paid versions works as
fine or better that the alternative, and as reviews as been said, that is
not the case.
However, I know that in the list we can't speak about that alternative,
so I don't understand why the people speak about it.

Regards,
mk.

El 17-04-2016 a las 8:04, Greg Wocher escribió:
Hello,
I want to give those of you who use the illegal eloquence add on some
food for thought. When you do it and proudly proclaim that you do, you
give NVDA and its users a bad reputation. I think I may purchase the
Code Factory add on later this afternoon from AT Guys and I will let you
all know if it gets rid of the choppiness.

Regards,
Greg Wocher

On 4/17/2016 5:32 AM, Peter Beasley wrote:
My sentiments exactly.

-----Original Message----- From: Afrim
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2016 6:40 AM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code
Factory

I have been using the old add-on of eloquonce someone made, and I am
not going to pay for a program that does essentially the same thing.
The add-on I am talking about works so fast and reliably.
cheers.

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 17, 2016, at 6:22 AM, Kelly Sapergia <ksapergia@sasktel.net>
wrote:

Hi,

Recently, there was a discussion about alternative voices for NVDA,
such as Code Factory's add-on with Eloquence and Vocalizer. I
mentioned that when I tried this particular product, I noticed that
Eloquence sounded quite choppy compared to other screen readers and
other synths I have for NVDA on my machine running Windows 7.
I also never experienced this with Code Factory's SAPI 5
implementation.
Anyway, I got thinking about it this evening, and decided to do some
searching to see if anyone else was experiencing similar issues. I
found a thread about the add-on in the old NVDA list's archive, and
saw a message stating that the choppiness would go away once the
product was paid for. I was just wondering if this is indeed the case?
If yes, it's not what I'd consider the best way to limit a trial
version, but I might buy it after all.

Thanks.

Yours Sincerely,
Kelly John Sapergia
Show Host and Production Director
The Global Voice Internet Radio
http://www.theglobalvoice.info

Personal Website: http://www.ksapergia.net Business Website (KJS
Productions): http://www.kjsproductions.com Follow me on Twitter
at: kjsapergia






Pete <emac00@...>
 

 
  I hear you,  hence lot's of people are still using x p and with x p you have outlook express if you want it.  I would strongly discourage using any hacked outlook express program. 

On 4/18/2016 2:22 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

Pete wrote, "It's kind of like the whole e-mail thing with people wanting to use outlook express except people keep telling them to use Thunderbird or Microsoft outlook or window live mail or some thing like that."

This isn't a "freedom of choice" issue, it's a simple fact of life that certain programs, Outlook Express being one example, effectively cease to exist when official support ends.  No one is guaranteed, nor should they expect, that anything that they're using will be available in perpetuity.

I discourage people from using Outlook Express because the only existing versions available are hacks based on who knows what code base and with what vulnerabilities.  Since e-mail clients constantly interact with the internet this is a real concern.

While such a concern is not present regarding voice synthesis, things will come, and go, in that arena as well.  There is very likely going to come a point where you, for any you, have to let go of something you're used to because it is not being supported or carried forward.  Getting used to this, even though it's painful, is essential in the cyber world unless you want to drive yourself crazy.  I've seen a lot of people over the years who have expended far more energy trying to hold on to something than would have been expended to learn the new that's available to them.

Brian



Pete <emac00@...>
 

 
  Same thing for people wanting windows x p. 
  I am getting ready to install w10, have to check on if w e 9 works in w10 or not. the f s people told me j16 works in w10 and sounds like people are using w 10 with nvda. 
Change is good but one should not be forced to loose freedom of choice. 

On 4/18/2016 2:22 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

Pete wrote, "It's kind of like the whole e-mail thing with people wanting to use outlook express except people keep telling them to use Thunderbird or Microsoft outlook or window live mail or some thing like that."

This isn't a "freedom of choice" issue, it's a simple fact of life that certain programs, Outlook Express being one example, effectively cease to exist when official support ends.  No one is guaranteed, nor should they expect, that anything that they're using will be available in perpetuity.

I discourage people from using Outlook Express because the only existing versions available are hacks based on who knows what code base and with what vulnerabilities.  Since e-mail clients constantly interact with the internet this is a real concern.

While such a concern is not present regarding voice synthesis, things will come, and go, in that arena as well.  There is very likely going to come a point where you, for any you, have to let go of something you're used to because it is not being supported or carried forward.  Getting used to this, even though it's painful, is essential in the cyber world unless you want to drive yourself crazy.  I've seen a lot of people over the years who have expended far more energy trying to hold on to something than would have been expended to learn the new that's available to them.

Brian



Gene
 

Freedom of choice is fine up to a point but you are implying, in an analagous context, that people should be allowed to use Model T Fords to preserve freedom of choice.  Too much choice equals stifling choice for many others.  it is not reasonable nor practical to expect backward compatibility indefinitely.  Over time, it may become too cumbersome to keep a program working on an increasingly old version of an operating system.  Just as it becomes impractical to have model t fords on fast highways of today.  I am not a tech so I can't discuss this from a technical standpointbut it is true that over time it becomes increasingly difficult to keep new versions of an operating system backwardly compatible with increasingly old programs. 
 
As far as reviving Text Assist is concerned, it wouldn't make sense to do so in its original form.  But the real problem with DEDTalk these days is that someone lost the original code and current versions are reconstructions and are not as good, though some reconstructions are quite reasonable.  If the speech part of Text Assist, the DECTalk code, could be used to build a modern version of DECTalk, that might be worth doing.  But Text Assist as such, wouldn't be practical to revive as it was.   
 

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Pete
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2016 1:43 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] This is the moderator speaking: Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code Factory

 
  Same thing for people wanting windows x p. 
  I am getting ready to install w10, have to check on if w e 9 works in w10 or not. the f s people told me j16 works in w10 and sounds like people are using w 10 with nvda. 
Change is good but one should not be forced to loose freedom of choice. 

On 4/18/2016 2:22 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

Pete wrote, "It's kind of like the whole e-mail thing with people wanting to use outlook express except people keep telling them to use Thunderbird or Microsoft outlook or window live mail or some thing like that."

This isn't a "freedom of choice" issue, it's a simple fact of life that certain programs, Outlook Express being one example, effectively cease to exist when official support ends.  No one is guaranteed, nor should they expect, that anything that they're using will be available in perpetuity.

I discourage people from using Outlook Express because the only existing versions available are hacks based on who knows what code base and with what vulnerabilities.  Since e-mail clients constantly interact with the internet this is a real concern.

While such a concern is not present regarding voice synthesis, things will come, and go, in that arena as well.  There is very likely going to come a point where you, for any you, have to let go of something you're used to because it is not being supported or carried forward.  Getting used to this, even though it's painful, is essential in the cyber world unless you want to drive yourself crazy.  I've seen a lot of people over the years who have expended far more energy trying to hold on to something than would have been expended to learn the new that's available to them.

Brian



 

Gene wrote, "Freedom of choice is fine up to a point but you are implying, in an analagous context, that people should be allowed to use Model T Fords to preserve freedom of choice.  Too much choice equals stifling choice for many others.  it is not reasonable nor practical to expect backward compatibility indefinitely."

To which I cannot say, more loudly, "Amen brother!!"

I really don't know why people think that the cyber world can, will, or should offer indefinite backward compatibility when none of the rest of the world ever has.  Whether it's because it's too cumbersome or difficult or because a given vendor just decides "time's up," the loss of stuff in the cyber world is a fact of life just like it is "in real life."

The fact that it is easier, often by far, to cling to something in the cyber world long past its "expiration date" only complicates the problem.

Brian


David Moore
 

Hi Pete,
Thank you so much, because I have made the same argument on many lists. Try using a horse and buggy on a free way. There comes a time when you just have to learn something new and change with the times. People who live over 100, say this is the main thing you have to do to live that long. Sometimes you have to forget the past and move on toward the future. Someday, I will be able to drive my own car, and I will embrace it. NVDA works so well in win10, and win10 is like a mantion over a log cabbin. We should have choice, but like you said, it can’t get in the way of the world changing for the good. Take care. If it takes buying new programs, it must be done because of the coming future. Start saving now, so you can prepare for the beautiful tech future that is to come. Have a great one.
 
 

From: Pete
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2016 2:43 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] This is the moderator speaking: Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code Factory
 

  Same thing for people wanting windows x p. 
  I am getting ready to install w10, have to check on if w e 9 works in w10 or not. the f s people told me j16 works in w10 and sounds like people are using w 10 with nvda. 
Change is good but one should not be forced to loose freedom of choice. 

On 4/18/2016 2:22 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

Pete wrote, "It's kind of like the whole e-mail thing with people wanting to use outlook express except people keep telling them to use Thunderbird or Microsoft outlook or window live mail or some thing like that."

This isn't a "freedom of choice" issue, it's a simple fact of life that certain programs, Outlook Express being one example, effectively cease to exist when official support ends.  No one is guaranteed, nor should they expect, that anything that they're using will be available in perpetuity.

I discourage people from using Outlook Express because the only existing versions available are hacks based on who knows what code base and with what vulnerabilities.  Since e-mail clients constantly interact with the internet this is a real concern.

While such a concern is not present regarding voice synthesis, things will come, and go, in that arena as well.  There is very likely going to come a point where you, for any you, have to let go of something you're used to because it is not being supported or carried forward.  Getting used to this, even though it's painful, is essential in the cyber world unless you want to drive yourself crazy.  I've seen a lot of people over the years who have expended far more energy trying to hold on to something than would have been expended to learn the new that's available to them.

Brian



Rosemarie Chavarria
 

Hi, David,

Yes, we do have to keep up with the times because things do change. I'm reminded of a former pen pal who was so stubborn. She was very anti-technology. One time she asked me if I had someone take me grocery shopping. When I told her I learned how to shop online, she gave me the riot act and said I needed to go to confession for having a computer. I gave it right back to her and told her she needed to grow up and get with the program. My whole point is that we all need to learn to be flexible. You can't live in the past forever.

Rosemarie

-----Original Message-----
From: David Moore [mailto:jesusloves1966@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2016 12:28 PM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] This is the moderator speaking: Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code Factory

Hi Pete,
Thank you so much, because I have made the same argument on many lists. Try using a horse and buggy on a free way. There comes a time when you just have to learn something new and change with the times. People who live over 100, say this is the main thing you have to do to live that long. Sometimes you have to forget the past and move on toward the future. Someday, I will be able to drive my own car, and I will embrace it. NVDA works so well in win10, and win10 is like a mantion over a log cabbin. We should have choice, but like you said, it can’t get in the way of the world changing for the good. Take care. If it takes buying new programs, it must be done because of the coming future. Start saving now, so you can prepare for the beautiful tech future that is to come. Have a great one.


From: Pete <mailto:emac00@cogeco.ca>
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2016 2:43 PM
To: nvda@groups.io <mailto:nvda@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] This is the moderator speaking: Question Regarding Eloquence for NVDA from Code Factory


Same thing for people wanting windows x p.
I am getting ready to install w10, have to check on if w e 9 works in w10 or not. the f s people told me j16 works in w10 and sounds like people are using w 10 with nvda.
Change is good but one should not be forced to loose freedom of choice.

On 4/18/2016 2:22 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:


Pete wrote, "It's kind of like the whole e-mail thing with people wanting to use outlook express except people keep telling them to use Thunderbird or Microsoft outlook or window live mail or some thing like that."

This isn't a "freedom of choice" issue, it's a simple fact of life that certain programs, Outlook Express being one example, effectively cease to exist when official support ends. No one is guaranteed, nor should they expect, that anything that they're using will be available in perpetuity.

I discourage people from using Outlook Express because the only existing versions available are hacks based on who knows what code base and with what vulnerabilities. Since e-mail clients constantly interact with the internet this is a real concern.

While such a concern is not present regarding voice synthesis, things will come, and go, in that arena as well. There is very likely going to come a point where you, for any you, have to let go of something you're used to because it is not being supported or carried forward. Getting used to this, even though it's painful, is essential in the cyber world unless you want to drive yourself crazy. I've seen a lot of people over the years who have expended far more energy trying to hold on to something than would have been expended to learn the new that's available to them.

Brian