say copy selected text
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Kevin <kleeva5@...>
How can I set NVDA to say copy selected text to the clip board and other like commands when I copy, cut or paste!
E-mail is golden!!!
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Gene
You have to use an add on named
clipspeak.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
How can I set NVDA to say copy selected text to the clip board and other like commands when I copy, cut or paste!
E-mail is golden!!!
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Kevin <kleeva5@...>
Where do I get that
E-mail is golden!!!
From: Gene
Sent: Saturday, February 3, 2018 10:53 AM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] say copy selected text
You have to use an add on named clipspeak.
Gene ----- Original Message -----
How can I set NVDA to say copy selected text to the clip board and other like commands when I copy, cut or paste!
E-mail is golden!!!
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Robert Mendoza
Hi, Kevin, Robert Mendoza On 2/4/2018 7:26 AM, Kevin wrote:
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Gene
When I look for an add on, the easiest way I know
is to do a Google search. If you search for clipspeak NVDA add on, the
page will come up very early in the results. I just did it and it came up,
In a Google search, as the first result.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Where do I get that
E-mail is golden!!!
From: Gene
You have to use an add on named clipspeak.
Gene ----- Original Message -----
How can I set NVDA to say copy selected text to the clip board and other like commands when I copy, cut or paste!
E-mail is golden!!!
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Kevin <kleeva5@...>
Thank you
E-mail is golden!!!
From: Gene
Sent: Saturday, February 3, 2018 4:56 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] say copy selected text
When I look for an add on, the easiest way I know is to do a Google search. If you search for clipspeak NVDA add on, the page will come up very early in the results. I just did it and it came up, In a Google search, as the first result.
Gene ----- Original Message -----
Where do I get that
E-mail is golden!!!
From: Gene
You have to use an add on named clipspeak.
Gene ----- Original Message -----
How can I set NVDA to say copy selected text to the clip board and other like commands when I copy, cut or paste!
E-mail is golden!!!
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inamuddinInam Uddin
Thanks a lot for this great addon! With regards from Inamuddin with the Skype ID: Charlsdarwin1
Arguing with a woman is reading software license agreement.
From: Robert Mendoza
Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 4:32 AM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] say copy selected text
Hi, Kevin, Robert Mendoza On 2/4/2018 7:26 AM, Kevin wrote:
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Brian's Mail list account
Been here before. There is a fake clipboard announcement add on but its not intelligent in that its really just reading the key combinations. There was an intelligent one being developed but it was slow and prone to malfunctions and creating memory errors in Microsoft Word so I uninstalled it.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
I have always said it should be designed in as a novice mode bit of help, but at the time I think it was thought too hard to make it take into account all the instances and get the indication correct. This is one to bring up again on the add ons list I'd imagine. Brian bglists@... Sent via blueyonder. Please address personal email to:- briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff' in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin" <kleeva5@...> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2018 6:38 PM Subject: [nvda] say copy selected text How can I set NVDA to say copy selected text to the clip board and other like commands when I copy, cut or paste! E-mail is golden!!! Kevin Lee
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Brian's Mail list account
It has some bugs though, so do be careful.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Brian bglists@... Sent via blueyonder. Please address personal email to:- briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff' in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <gsasner@...> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2018 6:53 PM Subject: Re: [nvda] say copy selected text You have to use an add on named clipspeak. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Kevin Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2018 12:38 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: [nvda] say copy selected text How can I set NVDA to say copy selected text to the clip board and other like commands when I copy, cut or paste! E-mail is golden!!! Kevin Lee
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Quentin Christensen
The reason it isn't built in is precisely what you just said - when it was first being looked at, we couldn't actually know whether text had been cut, copied or pasted etc. All we could do was detect that control+c had been pressed and know that is GENERALLY used for copy. We didn't want to tell the user something had been copied when it hadn't, so instead there is the "Speak command keys" option (NVDA+4 or via the NVDA keyboard preferences NVDA+control+k) which will read CONTROL+C in that instance. The SpeakClip add-on does read the command - cut, copy, paste, select all etc. It does make an effort to report this intelligently. I recall a conversation with someone recently who said it is now more possible to accurately tell what has happened (text has been cut, a file has been copied, etc). If that is the case, then it potentially could be considered to be built in. Kind regards Quentin.
On Sun, Feb 4, 2018 at 7:59 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists@...> wrote: Been here before. There is a fake clipboard announcement add on but its not intelligent in that its really just reading the key combinations. There was an intelligent one being developed but it was slow and prone to malfunctions and creating memory errors in Microsoft Word so I uninstalled it. --
Quentin Christensen Training and Support Manager Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/ Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess Twitter: @NVAccess
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Gene
It is important to consider doing so. And as
far as not being able to detect this before, I don't know why. JAWS has
done so at least as far back as XP and probably much longer. System Access
does this as well and has done so for years.
This is an important feature and shouldn't be
relegated to an add on.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Quentin Christensen
Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2018 2:53 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] say copy selected text The reason it isn't built in is precisely what you just said - when
it was first being looked at, we couldn't actually know whether text had been
cut, copied or pasted etc. All we could do was detect that control+c had
been pressed and know that is GENERALLY used for copy. We didn't want to
tell the user something had been copied when it hadn't, so instead there is the
"Speak command keys" option (NVDA+4 or via the NVDA keyboard preferences
NVDA+control+k) which will read CONTROL+C in that instance.
The SpeakClip add-on does read the command - cut, copy, paste, select all
etc. It does make an effort to report this intelligently. I recall a
conversation with someone recently who said it is now more possible to
accurately tell what has happened (text has been cut, a file has been copied,
etc). If that is the case, then it potentially could be considered to be
built in.
Kind regards
Quentin. On Sun, Feb 4, 2018 at 7:59 PM, Brian's Mail list account
via Groups.Io <bglists@...> wrote: Been here before. There is a fake clipboard announcement add on but its not intelligent in that its really just reading the key combinations. There was an intelligent one being developed but it was slow and prone to malfunctions and creating memory errors in Microsoft Word so I uninstalled it. Quentin
Christensen
Training and Support Manager Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification
now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess Twitter: @NVAccess
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Chris Mullins
I used Jaws for years on XP and W7 and the cut/copy/paste feature never worked consistently. The clipspeak add-on at least tells you the keystroke you have pressed even if it may or may not have worked and is less verbose than switching on the speak command keys feature of NVDA. I use clipspeak add-on and the only thing that bugs me about it is that it says “Re-Do” when I use control+y in MS Outlook and W10 Mail to display the folder list.
Cheers Chris
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 4 February 2018 22:21 To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] say copy selected text
It is important to consider doing so. And as far as not being able to detect this before, I don't know why. JAWS has done so at least as far back as XP and probably much longer. System Access does this as well and has done so for years.
This is an important feature and shouldn't be relegated to an add on.
Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Quentin Christensen Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2018 2:53 PM Subject: Re: [nvda] say copy selected text
The reason it isn't built in is precisely what you just said - when it was first being looked at, we couldn't actually know whether text had been cut, copied or pasted etc. All we could do was detect that control+c had been pressed and know that is GENERALLY used for copy. We didn't want to tell the user something had been copied when it hadn't, so instead there is the "Speak command keys" option (NVDA+4 or via the NVDA keyboard preferences NVDA+control+k) which will read CONTROL+C in that instance.
The SpeakClip add-on does read the command - cut, copy, paste, select all etc. It does make an effort to report this intelligently. I recall a conversation with someone recently who said it is now more possible to accurately tell what has happened (text has been cut, a file has been copied, etc). If that is the case, then it potentially could be considered to be built in.
Kind regards
Quentin.
On Sun, Feb 4, 2018 at 7:59 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists@...> wrote: Been here before. There is a fake clipboard announcement add on but its not intelligent in that its really just reading the key combinations. There was an intelligent one being developed but it was slow and prone to malfunctions and creating memory errors in Microsoft Word so I uninstalled it.
-- Quentin Christensen
Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
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Gene
I never had the JAWS copy and paste command not
work except perhaps very rarely when I had to restart the screen-reader to cause
it to work again. But that means nothing about the function. At
times, you have to restart programs because some problem develops that is solved
in that way.
Gene
----- Original Message ----
From: Chris Mullins
Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2018 5:02 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] say copy selected text I used Jaws for years on XP and W7 and the cut/copy/paste feature never worked consistently. The clipspeak add-on at least tells you the keystroke you have pressed even if it may or may not have worked and is less verbose than switching on the speak command keys feature of NVDA. I use clipspeak add-on and the only thing that bugs me about it is that it says “Re-Do” when I use control+y in MS Outlook and W10 Mail to display the folder list.
Cheers Chris
From:
nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
It is important to consider doing so. And as far as not being able to detect this before, I don't know why. JAWS has done so at least as far back as XP and probably much longer. System Access does this as well and has done so for years.
This is an important feature and shouldn't be relegated to an add on.
Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Quentin Christensen Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2018 2:53 PM Subject: Re: [nvda] say copy selected text
The reason it isn't built in is precisely what you just said - when it was first being looked at, we couldn't actually know whether text had been cut, copied or pasted etc. All we could do was detect that control+c had been pressed and know that is GENERALLY used for copy. We didn't want to tell the user something had been copied when it hadn't, so instead there is the "Speak command keys" option (NVDA+4 or via the NVDA keyboard preferences NVDA+control+k) which will read CONTROL+C in that instance.
The SpeakClip add-on does read the command - cut, copy, paste, select all etc. It does make an effort to report this intelligently. I recall a conversation with someone recently who said it is now more possible to accurately tell what has happened (text has been cut, a file has been copied, etc). If that is the case, then it potentially could be considered to be built in.
Kind regards
Quentin.
On Sun, Feb 4, 2018 at 7:59 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists@...> wrote: Been here before. There is
a fake clipboard announcement add on but its not intelligent in that its really
just reading the key combinations. There was an intelligent one being developed
but it was slow and prone to malfunctions and creating memory errors in
Microsoft Word so I uninstalled it.
-- Quentin Christensen
Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
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Quentin Christensen
Can I just clarify what I said please - there is a difference between detecting that a user has pressed control+c and assuming (perhaps even by knowing we are in Word and there was text selected) that text has been copied, and actually knowing that the contents of the clipboard have changed, and how. If done intelligently, then yes the first way may be right most of the time and for the majority of users that may be accurate enough. If everything works, then yes, from a user's perspective, it doesn't overly matter how the information was ascertained, we just weren't comfortable reporting something that we couldn't ascertain. The other issue may be that ascertaining that information definitively could come with a performance cost. NVDA would need to constantly know the state of the clipboard in order to know, when the user presses CONTROL+C, whether the contents of the clipboard have changed. Again, I'm not saying it can't change, or even disagreeing with the argument for change, just presenting the original thinking and how we got to where we are now. Kind regards Quentin.
On Mon, Feb 5, 2018 at 10:15 AM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
--
Quentin Christensen Training and Support Manager Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/ Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess Twitter: @NVAccess
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Gene
I'm saying that I know that JAWS and System access
detected the operation correctly. I've tested it when there was nothing on
the clipboard and I got no indication that anything had occurred. I don't
remember now if there was silence or some sort of message such as nothing to
copy. That wasn't the phrase, if one was used.
I also tested with System Access and again, I
wasn't told that copying or pasting had occurred when there was nothing to copy
or paste.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Quentin Christensen
Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2018 5:53 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] say copy selected text Can I just clarify what I said please - there is a difference
between detecting that a user has pressed control+c and assuming (perhaps even
by knowing we are in Word and there was text selected) that text has been
copied, and actually knowing that the contents of the clipboard have changed,
and how. If done intelligently, then yes the first way may be right most
of the time and for the majority of users that may be accurate enough. If
everything works, then yes, from a user's perspective, it doesn't overly matter
how the information was ascertained, we just weren't comfortable reporting
something that we couldn't ascertain.
The other issue may be that ascertaining that information definitively
could come with a performance cost. NVDA would need to constantly know the
state of the clipboard in order to know, when the user presses CONTROL+C,
whether the contents of the clipboard have changed.
Again, I'm not saying it can't change, or even disagreeing with the
argument for change, just presenting the original thinking and how we got to
where we are now.
Kind regards
Quentin. On Mon, Feb 5, 2018 at 10:15 AM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
Quentin
Christensen
Training and Support Manager Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification
now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess Twitter: @NVAccess
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John Isige
Quentin:
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Why would NVDA need to constantly know the contents of the clipboard? I haven't been following this discussion, but NVDA has to know selected text, yes? So all it needs to do is compare the selected text to the clipboard after a copy operation. Otherwise, it doesn't need to care about the clipboard at all.
On 2/4/2018 19:52, Gene wrote:
I'm saying that I know that JAWS and System access detected the
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Brian's Mail list account
Yes, I did wonder though many years ago Dolphin had this in its novice mode and it seemed to actually be reliable in what it said, but of course I never did actually do exhaustive tests.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Besides, in those days most screenreaders used display chain drivers and it may well be that it could be detected by some subtle change in the screen content. The clipspeak is very slow and buggy, sadly though in most cases it does work. Fails in Goldwave and creates spurious memory errors in some versions of word. Brian bglists@... Sent via blueyonder. Please address personal email to:- briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff' in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Quentin Christensen" <quentin@...> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2018 8:53 PM Subject: Re: [nvda] say copy selected text The reason it isn't built in is precisely what you just said - when it was
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Brian's Mail list account
I'm getting this sense of deja vue here, is it groundhog day again?
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
grin. I seem to recall a long discussion with Jamie on one of these lists how just doing the compare of selected whatever it is can be misleading, but it was a while ago now. I did wonder if windows in some way indicates success by some graphical change to the sighted though. Brian bglists@... Sent via blueyonder. Please address personal email to:- briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff' in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Isige" <gwynn@...> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Sent: Monday, February 05, 2018 4:09 AM Subject: Re: [nvda] say copy selected text Quentin: Why would NVDA need to constantly know the contents of the clipboard? I haven't been following this discussion, but NVDA has to know selected text, yes? So all it needs to do is compare the selected text to the clipboard after a copy operation. Otherwise, it doesn't need to care about the clipboard at all. On 2/4/2018 19:52, Gene wrote: I'm saying that I know that JAWS and System access detected the
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Gene
This message is long but it states and explains in
detail why copy and paste is an important feature, and even more so with the
poorly designed, paternalistic, read contents of clipboard feature available
now.
Where else do you find it very slow and
buggy? From my use, it isn't very slow and buggy much of the time. I
found one program, free video converter, where it prevents pasting of an address
into the program. It says pasted but the address is still the last one you
used when not using the plugin. You said it had problems in Word. I
don't have Word. But in Notepad and Wordpad, using XP, there are no
problems. There are no problems copying and pasting in My Computer's
folders and files list, nor in Windows Explorer. When copying files to the
clipboard, it is slow in reporting that something is copied. But I'd
rather have a delay, I'm not sure how long yours willl be. I'm using
an old slow machine and on mine, the delay may be a second or one and one half
seconds. Well worth it when compared with this possibility. You
aren't using the add on. You copied and pasted a lot of files or even five
or six from place to place. You go to copy and paste more files to the
same or a different location. Since you aren't using the plugin, you get
no indication about whether files have been copied to the clipboard or
pasted. You find, to your considerable annoyance, after pasting, that you
have pasted the previous files to another location or that you now have
duplicates of every file you previously pasted because copy didn't work even
though you used the correct command and entered it correctly as far as keyboard
technique is concerned. You now have to delete the files from where they
have just been copied, tgo back, copy the files you do want again, and then
paste again. If you are using clipspeak, this won't happen.
As I said, this is an important feature.
People try to fob this off by saying, you can check what you have copied to the
clipboard by using the speak contents of clipboard command, available in
NVDA. That's fine for small amounts of text. But the clipboard
feature wants to be smarter than you are. It is designed not to speak
larger amounts of ttext, only telling the number of characters. Great
design! What if I want to copy a large amount of text and I just copied
another large amount of text and pasted it previously. How is knowing the
number of characters going to help if it's one thousand three hundred characters
the previous time and one thousand one hundred twenty characters the second
time? Yes, if you make a point of remembering the previous number you'll
know if copying occurred. But who should have to do this? This
is 2017. This is the equivalent of a crank starter on a model T
Ford. And, though very unlikely, the number of characters might be the
same or differ only by a few numbers such as one thousand two hundred fifty five
and one thousand two hundred fifty two. Or it may be more, two thousand
three hundred twenty five. Unless you really make an effort to remember
the first number, you may not realize that the second number is different or you
may not be sure. In addition, when you copy files or folders to the
clipboard, you are told something like no text on clipboard. That's really
helpful in teling you what files /and or folders you have pasted.
If these levels of disfunction and poor design are
acceptable in this feature, then why isn't a certain amount of inaccuracy
acceptable in copying and pasting? And I see no evidence that such is
necessary based on past experience with JAWS and System Access to go.
In short, the read contents of clipboard should be
redesigned and should read everything that's there. Programmers should not
assume what is best for the user in a case like this. It's
paternalistic. All the reader has to do to stop reading is press control,
as in all other cases where speech is occurring. As I recall, the excuse
for not having the feature work that way is that the reader probably won't want
to hear extended text. Fine. So let the reader press control.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, February 05, 2018 3:53 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] say copy selected text and it seemed to actually be reliable in what it said, but of course I never did actually do exhaustive tests. Besides, in those days most screenreaders used display chain drivers and it may well be that it could be detected by some subtle change in the screen content. The clipspeak is very slow and buggy, sadly though in most cases it does work. Fails in Goldwave and creates spurious memory errors in some versions of word. Brian bglists@... Sent via blueyonder. Please address personal email to:- briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff' in the display name field. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Quentin Christensen" <quentin@...> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io> Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2018 8:53 PM Subject: Re: [nvda] say copy selected text > The reason it isn't built in is precisely what you just said - when it was > first being looked at, we couldn't actually know whether text had been > cut, > copied or pasted etc. All we could do was detect that control+c had been > pressed and know that is GENERALLY used for copy. We didn't want to tell > the user something had been copied when it hadn't, so instead there is the > "Speak command keys" option (NVDA+4 or via the NVDA keyboard preferences > NVDA+control+k) which will read CONTROL+C in that instance. > > The SpeakClip add-on does read the command - cut, copy, paste, select all > etc. It does make an effort to report this intelligently. I recall a > conversation with someone recently who said it is now more possible to > accurately tell what has happened (text has been cut, a file has been > copied, etc). If that is the case, then it potentially could be > considered > to be built in. > > Kind regards > > Quentin. > > On Sun, Feb 4, 2018 at 7:59 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io < > bglists@...> wrote: > >> Been here before. There is a fake clipboard announcement add on but its >> not intelligent in that its really just reading the key combinations. >> There >> was an intelligent one being developed but it was slow and prone to >> malfunctions and creating memory errors in Microsoft Word so I >> uninstalled >> it. >> I have always said it should be designed in as a novice mode bit of help, >> but at the time I think it was thought too hard to make it take into >> account all the instances and get the indication correct. >> This is one to bring up again on the add ons list I'd imagine. >> Brian >> >> bglists@... >> Sent via blueyonder. >> Please address personal email to:- >> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff' >> in the display name field. >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin" <kleeva5@...> >> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io> >> Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2018 6:38 PM >> Subject: [nvda] say copy selected text >> >> >> How can I set NVDA to say copy selected text to the clip board and other >> like commands when I copy, cut or paste! >> >> E-mail is golden!!! >> Kevin Lee >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > -- > Quentin Christensen > Training and Support Manager > > Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: > http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/ > > www.nvaccess.org > Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess > Twitter: @NVAccess >
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Dennis L <dennisl1982@...>
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
I agree if Jaws and other screen readers can
properly do this so should NVDA
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