say copy selected text


Kevin <kleeva5@...>
 

How can I set NVDA to say copy selected text to the clip board and other like commands when I copy, cut or paste!

 

E-mail is golden!!!
Kevin Lee

 


Gene
 

You have to use an add on named clipspeak.
 

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Kevin
Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2018 12:38 PM
Subject: [nvda] say copy selected text

How can I set NVDA to say copy selected text to the clip board and other like commands when I copy, cut or paste!

 

E-mail is golden!!!
Kevin Lee

 


Kevin <kleeva5@...>
 

Where do I get that

 

E-mail is golden!!!
Kevin Lee

 

From: Gene
Sent: Saturday, February 3, 2018 10:53 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] say copy selected text

 

You have to use an add on named clipspeak.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Kevin

Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2018 12:38 PM

Subject: [nvda] say copy selected text

 

How can I set NVDA to say copy selected text to the clip board and other like commands when I copy, cut or paste!

 

E-mail is golden!!!
Kevin Lee

 

 


Robert Mendoza
 

Hi, Kevin,

You may find this link. The addons is under development but it works well.
https://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/clipspeak.en.html

Robert Mendoza
On 2/4/2018 7:26 AM, Kevin wrote:

Where do I get that

 

E-mail is golden!!!
Kevin Lee

 

From: Gene
Sent: Saturday, February 3, 2018 10:53 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] say copy selected text

 

You have to use an add on named clipspeak.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Kevin

Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2018 12:38 PM

Subject: [nvda] say copy selected text

 

How can I set NVDA to say copy selected text to the clip board and other like commands when I copy, cut or paste!

 

E-mail is golden!!!
Kevin Lee

 

 



Gene
 

When I look for an add on, the easiest way I know is to do a Google search.  If you search for clipspeak NVDA add on, the page will come up very early in the results.  I just did it and it came up, In a Google search, as the first result. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Kevin
Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2018 5:26 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] say copy selected text

Where do I get that

 

E-mail is golden!!!
Kevin Lee

 

From: Gene
Sent: Saturday, February 3, 2018 10:53 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] say copy selected text

 

You have to use an add on named clipspeak.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Kevin

Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2018 12:38 PM

Subject: [nvda] say copy selected text

 

How can I set NVDA to say copy selected text to the clip board and other like commands when I copy, cut or paste!

 

E-mail is golden!!!
Kevin Lee

 

 


Kevin <kleeva5@...>
 

Thank you

 

E-mail is golden!!!
Kevin Lee

 

From: Gene
Sent: Saturday, February 3, 2018 4:56 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] say copy selected text

 

When I look for an add on, the easiest way I know is to do a Google search.  If you search for clipspeak NVDA add on, the page will come up very early in the results.  I just did it and it came up, In a Google search, as the first result. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Kevin

Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2018 5:26 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] say copy selected text

 

Where do I get that

 

E-mail is golden!!!
Kevin Lee

 

From: Gene
Sent: Saturday, February 3, 2018 10:53 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] say copy selected text

 

You have to use an add on named clipspeak.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Kevin

Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2018 12:38 PM

Subject: [nvda] say copy selected text

 

How can I set NVDA to say copy selected text to the clip board and other like commands when I copy, cut or paste!

 

E-mail is golden!!!
Kevin Lee

 

 

 


inamuddinInam Uddin
 

Thanks a lot for this great addon!

With regards from Inamuddin with the Skype ID:

Charlsdarwin1

 

 

Arguing with a woman is reading software license agreement.
At the end, you have to ignore everything and clic I agree.
You can contact me via gmail:
inamuddin09@...
Inamuddin.ronaque@...
outlook:
inam092@...
yahoo:
inamuddin2010@...
Add my Skype ID:
charlsdarwin1
Meet me on facebook:
www.facebook.com/inamuddin786
Follow me on my twitter ID:
www.twitter.com/charlsdarwin1
Call me on my cell numbers:
+92-300-2227598
+92-334-3348409

 

From: Robert Mendoza
Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2018 4:32 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] say copy selected text

 

Hi, Kevin,

You may find this link. The addons is under development but it works well.
https://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/clipspeak.en.html

Robert Mendoza

On 2/4/2018 7:26 AM, Kevin wrote:

Where do I get that

 

E-mail is golden!!!
Kevin Lee

 

From: Gene
Sent: Saturday, February 3, 2018 10:53 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] say copy selected text

 

You have to use an add on named clipspeak.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Kevin

Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2018 12:38 PM

Subject: [nvda] say copy selected text

 

How can I set NVDA to say copy selected text to the clip board and other like commands when I copy, cut or paste!

 

E-mail is golden!!!
Kevin Lee

 

 

 

 


Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Been here before. There is a fake clipboard announcement add on but its not intelligent in that its really just reading the key combinations. There was an intelligent one being developed but it was slow and prone to malfunctions and creating memory errors in Microsoft Word so I uninstalled it.
I have always said it should be designed in as a novice mode bit of help, but at the time I think it was thought too hard to make it take into account all the instances and get the indication correct.
This is one to bring up again on the add ons list I'd imagine.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin" <kleeva5@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2018 6:38 PM
Subject: [nvda] say copy selected text


How can I set NVDA to say copy selected text to the clip board and other like commands when I copy, cut or paste!

E-mail is golden!!!
Kevin Lee


Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

It has some bugs though, so do be careful.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <gsasner@ripco.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2018 6:53 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] say copy selected text


You have to use an add on named clipspeak.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Kevin
Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2018 12:38 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] say copy selected text


How can I set NVDA to say copy selected text to the clip board and other like commands when I copy, cut or paste!



E-mail is golden!!!
Kevin Lee


Quentin Christensen
 

The reason it isn't built in is precisely what you just said - when it was first being looked at, we couldn't actually know whether text had been cut, copied or pasted etc.  All we could do was detect that control+c had been pressed and know that is GENERALLY used for copy.  We didn't want to tell the user something had been copied when it hadn't, so instead there is the "Speak command keys" option (NVDA+4 or via the NVDA keyboard preferences NVDA+control+k) which will read CONTROL+C in that instance.

The SpeakClip add-on does read the command - cut, copy, paste, select all etc.  It does make an effort to report this intelligently.  I recall a conversation with someone recently who said it is now more possible to accurately tell what has happened (text has been cut, a file has been copied, etc).  If that is the case, then it potentially could be considered to be built in.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Sun, Feb 4, 2018 at 7:59 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists@...> wrote:
Been here before. There is a fake clipboard announcement add on but its not intelligent in that its really just reading the key combinations. There was an intelligent one being developed but it was slow and prone to malfunctions and creating memory errors in Microsoft Word so I uninstalled it.
I have always said it should be designed in as a novice mode bit of help, but at the time I think it was thought too hard to make it take into account all the instances and get the indication correct.
This is one to bring up again on the add ons list I'd imagine.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin" <kleeva5@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2018 6:38 PM
Subject: [nvda] say copy selected text


How can I set NVDA to say copy selected text to the clip board and other like commands when I copy, cut or paste!

E-mail is golden!!!
Kevin Lee








--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Gene
 

It is important to consider doing so.  And as far as not being able to detect this before, I don't know why.  JAWS has done so at least as far back as XP and probably much longer.  System Access does this as well and has done so for years. 
 
This is an important feature and shouldn't be relegated to an add on.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2018 2:53 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] say copy selected text

The reason it isn't built in is precisely what you just said - when it was first being looked at, we couldn't actually know whether text had been cut, copied or pasted etc.  All we could do was detect that control+c had been pressed and know that is GENERALLY used for copy.  We didn't want to tell the user something had been copied when it hadn't, so instead there is the "Speak command keys" option (NVDA+4 or via the NVDA keyboard preferences NVDA+control+k) which will read CONTROL+C in that instance.

The SpeakClip add-on does read the command - cut, copy, paste, select all etc.  It does make an effort to report this intelligently.  I recall a conversation with someone recently who said it is now more possible to accurately tell what has happened (text has been cut, a file has been copied, etc).  If that is the case, then it potentially could be considered to be built in.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Sun, Feb 4, 2018 at 7:59 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists@...> wrote:
Been here before. There is a fake clipboard announcement add on but its not intelligent in that its really just reading the key combinations. There was an intelligent one being developed but it was slow and prone to malfunctions and creating memory errors in Microsoft Word so I uninstalled it.
I have always said it should be designed in as a novice mode bit of help, but at the time I think it was thought too hard to make it take into account all the instances and get the indication correct.
This is one to bring up again on the add ons list I'd imagine.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin" <kleeva5@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2018 6:38 PM
Subject: [nvda] say copy selected text


How can I set NVDA to say copy selected text to the clip board and other like commands when I copy, cut or paste!

E-mail is golden!!!
Kevin Lee








--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Chris Mullins
 

I used Jaws for years on XP and W7 and the cut/copy/paste  feature never worked consistently.  The clipspeak add-on at least tells you the keystroke you have pressed even if it may or may not have worked and is less verbose than switching on the speak command keys feature of NVDA.  I use clipspeak add-on and the only thing that bugs me about it is that it says “Re-Do” when I use control+y in MS Outlook and W10 Mail to display the folder list.

 

Cheers

Chris

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 4 February 2018 22:21
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] say copy selected text

 

It is important to consider doing so.  And as far as not being able to detect this before, I don't know why.  JAWS has done so at least as far back as XP and probably much longer.  System Access does this as well and has done so for years. 

 

This is an important feature and shouldn't be relegated to an add on.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2018 2:53 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] say copy selected text

 

The reason it isn't built in is precisely what you just said - when it was first being looked at, we couldn't actually know whether text had been cut, copied or pasted etc.  All we could do was detect that control+c had been pressed and know that is GENERALLY used for copy.  We didn't want to tell the user something had been copied when it hadn't, so instead there is the "Speak command keys" option (NVDA+4 or via the NVDA keyboard preferences NVDA+control+k) which will read CONTROL+C in that instance.

 

The SpeakClip add-on does read the command - cut, copy, paste, select all etc.  It does make an effort to report this intelligently.  I recall a conversation with someone recently who said it is now more possible to accurately tell what has happened (text has been cut, a file has been copied, etc).  If that is the case, then it potentially could be considered to be built in.

 

Kind regards

 

Quentin.

 

On Sun, Feb 4, 2018 at 7:59 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists@...> wrote:

Been here before. There is a fake clipboard announcement add on but its not intelligent in that its really just reading the key combinations. There was an intelligent one being developed but it was slow and prone to malfunctions and creating memory errors in Microsoft Word so I uninstalled it.
I have always said it should be designed in as a novice mode bit of help, but at the time I think it was thought too hard to make it take into account all the instances and get the indication correct.
This is one to bring up again on the add ons list I'd imagine.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin" <kleeva5@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2018 6:38 PM
Subject: [nvda] say copy selected text


How can I set NVDA to say copy selected text to the clip board and other like commands when I copy, cut or paste!

E-mail is golden!!!
Kevin Lee






 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Gene
 

I never had the JAWS copy and paste command not work except perhaps very rarely when I had to restart the screen-reader to cause it to work again.  But that means nothing about the function.  At times, you have to restart programs because some problem develops that is solved in that way. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message ----
Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2018 5:02 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] say copy selected text

I used Jaws for years on XP and W7 and the cut/copy/paste  feature never worked consistently.  The clipspeak add-on at least tells you the keystroke you have pressed even if it may or may not have worked and is less verbose than switching on the speak command keys feature of NVDA.  I use clipspeak add-on and the only thing that bugs me about it is that it says “Re-Do” when I use control+y in MS Outlook and W10 Mail to display the folder list.

 

Cheers

Chris

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 4 February 2018 22:21
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] say copy selected text

 

It is important to consider doing so.  And as far as not being able to detect this before, I don't know why.  JAWS has done so at least as far back as XP and probably much longer.  System Access does this as well and has done so for years. 

 

This is an important feature and shouldn't be relegated to an add on.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2018 2:53 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] say copy selected text

 

The reason it isn't built in is precisely what you just said - when it was first being looked at, we couldn't actually know whether text had been cut, copied or pasted etc.  All we could do was detect that control+c had been pressed and know that is GENERALLY used for copy.  We didn't want to tell the user something had been copied when it hadn't, so instead there is the "Speak command keys" option (NVDA+4 or via the NVDA keyboard preferences NVDA+control+k) which will read CONTROL+C in that instance.

 

The SpeakClip add-on does read the command - cut, copy, paste, select all etc.  It does make an effort to report this intelligently.  I recall a conversation with someone recently who said it is now more possible to accurately tell what has happened (text has been cut, a file has been copied, etc).  If that is the case, then it potentially could be considered to be built in.

 

Kind regards

 

Quentin.

 

On Sun, Feb 4, 2018 at 7:59 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists@...> wrote:

Been here before. There is a fake clipboard announcement add on but its not intelligent in that its really just reading the key combinations. There was an intelligent one being developed but it was slow and prone to malfunctions and creating memory errors in Microsoft Word so I uninstalled it.
I have always said it should be designed in as a novice mode bit of help, but at the time I think it was thought too hard to make it take into account all the instances and get the indication correct.
This is one to bring up again on the add ons list I'd imagine.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin" <kleeva5@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2018 6:38 PM
Subject: [nvda] say copy selected text


How can I set NVDA to say copy selected text to the clip board and other like commands when I copy, cut or paste!

E-mail is golden!!!
Kevin Lee






 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Quentin Christensen
 

Can I just clarify what I said please - there is a difference between detecting that a user has pressed control+c and assuming (perhaps even by knowing we are in Word and there was text selected) that text has been copied, and actually knowing that the contents of the clipboard have changed, and how.  If done intelligently, then yes the first way may be right most of the time and for the majority of users that may be accurate enough.  If everything works, then yes, from a user's perspective, it doesn't overly matter how the information was ascertained, we just weren't comfortable reporting something that we couldn't ascertain.

The other issue may be that ascertaining that information definitively could come with a performance cost.  NVDA would need to constantly know the state of the clipboard in order to know, when the user presses CONTROL+C, whether the contents of the clipboard have changed.

Again, I'm not saying it can't change, or even disagreeing with the argument for change, just presenting the original thinking and how we got to where we are now.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Mon, Feb 5, 2018 at 10:15 AM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
I never had the JAWS copy and paste command not work except perhaps very rarely when I had to restart the screen-reader to cause it to work again.  But that means nothing about the function.  At times, you have to restart programs because some problem develops that is solved in that way. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message ----
Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2018 5:02 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] say copy selected text

I used Jaws for years on XP and W7 and the cut/copy/paste  feature never worked consistently.  The clipspeak add-on at least tells you the keystroke you have pressed even if it may or may not have worked and is less verbose than switching on the speak command keys feature of NVDA.  I use clipspeak add-on and the only thing that bugs me about it is that it says “Re-Do” when I use control+y in MS Outlook and W10 Mail to display the folder list.

 

Cheers

Chris

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 4 February 2018 22:21
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] say copy selected text

 

It is important to consider doing so.  And as far as not being able to detect this before, I don't know why.  JAWS has done so at least as far back as XP and probably much longer.  System Access does this as well and has done so for years. 

 

This is an important feature and shouldn't be relegated to an add on.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2018 2:53 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] say copy selected text

 

The reason it isn't built in is precisely what you just said - when it was first being looked at, we couldn't actually know whether text had been cut, copied or pasted etc.  All we could do was detect that control+c had been pressed and know that is GENERALLY used for copy.  We didn't want to tell the user something had been copied when it hadn't, so instead there is the "Speak command keys" option (NVDA+4 or via the NVDA keyboard preferences NVDA+control+k) which will read CONTROL+C in that instance.

 

The SpeakClip add-on does read the command - cut, copy, paste, select all etc.  It does make an effort to report this intelligently.  I recall a conversation with someone recently who said it is now more possible to accurately tell what has happened (text has been cut, a file has been copied, etc).  If that is the case, then it potentially could be considered to be built in.

 

Kind regards

 

Quentin.

 

On Sun, Feb 4, 2018 at 7:59 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:

Been here before. There is a fake clipboard announcement add on but its not intelligent in that its really just reading the key combinations. There was an intelligent one being developed but it was slow and prone to malfunctions and creating memory errors in Microsoft Word so I uninstalled it.
I have always said it should be designed in as a novice mode bit of help, but at the time I think it was thought too hard to make it take into account all the instances and get the indication correct.
This is one to bring up again on the add ons list I'd imagine.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin" <kleeva5@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2018 6:38 PM
Subject: [nvda] say copy selected text


How can I set NVDA to say copy selected text to the clip board and other like commands when I copy, cut or paste!

E-mail is golden!!!
Kevin Lee






 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 




--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


Gene
 

I'm saying that I know that JAWS and System access detected the operation correctly.  I've tested it when there was nothing on the clipboard and I got no indication that anything had occurred.  I don't remember now if there was silence or some sort of message such as nothing to copy.  That wasn't the phrase, if one was used. 
 
I also tested with System Access and again, I wasn't told that copying or pasting had occurred when there was nothing to copy or paste.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2018 5:53 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] say copy selected text

Can I just clarify what I said please - there is a difference between detecting that a user has pressed control+c and assuming (perhaps even by knowing we are in Word and there was text selected) that text has been copied, and actually knowing that the contents of the clipboard have changed, and how.  If done intelligently, then yes the first way may be right most of the time and for the majority of users that may be accurate enough.  If everything works, then yes, from a user's perspective, it doesn't overly matter how the information was ascertained, we just weren't comfortable reporting something that we couldn't ascertain.

The other issue may be that ascertaining that information definitively could come with a performance cost.  NVDA would need to constantly know the state of the clipboard in order to know, when the user presses CONTROL+C, whether the contents of the clipboard have changed.

Again, I'm not saying it can't change, or even disagreeing with the argument for change, just presenting the original thinking and how we got to where we are now.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Mon, Feb 5, 2018 at 10:15 AM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
I never had the JAWS copy and paste command not work except perhaps very rarely when I had to restart the screen-reader to cause it to work again.  But that means nothing about the function.  At times, you have to restart programs because some problem develops that is solved in that way. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message ----
Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2018 5:02 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] say copy selected text

I used Jaws for years on XP and W7 and the cut/copy/paste  feature never worked consistently.  The clipspeak add-on at least tells you the keystroke you have pressed even if it may or may not have worked and is less verbose than switching on the speak command keys feature of NVDA.  I use clipspeak add-on and the only thing that bugs me about it is that it says “Re-Do” when I use control+y in MS Outlook and W10 Mail to display the folder list.

 

Cheers

Chris

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 4 February 2018 22:21
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] say copy selected text

 

It is important to consider doing so.  And as far as not being able to detect this before, I don't know why.  JAWS has done so at least as far back as XP and probably much longer.  System Access does this as well and has done so for years. 

 

This is an important feature and shouldn't be relegated to an add on.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2018 2:53 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] say copy selected text

 

The reason it isn't built in is precisely what you just said - when it was first being looked at, we couldn't actually know whether text had been cut, copied or pasted etc.  All we could do was detect that control+c had been pressed and know that is GENERALLY used for copy.  We didn't want to tell the user something had been copied when it hadn't, so instead there is the "Speak command keys" option (NVDA+4 or via the NVDA keyboard preferences NVDA+control+k) which will read CONTROL+C in that instance.

 

The SpeakClip add-on does read the command - cut, copy, paste, select all etc.  It does make an effort to report this intelligently.  I recall a conversation with someone recently who said it is now more possible to accurately tell what has happened (text has been cut, a file has been copied, etc).  If that is the case, then it potentially could be considered to be built in.

 

Kind regards

 

Quentin.

 

On Sun, Feb 4, 2018 at 7:59 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:

Been here before. There is a fake clipboard announcement add on but its not intelligent in that its really just reading the key combinations. There was an intelligent one being developed but it was slow and prone to malfunctions and creating memory errors in Microsoft Word so I uninstalled it.
I have always said it should be designed in as a novice mode bit of help, but at the time I think it was thought too hard to make it take into account all the instances and get the indication correct.
This is one to bring up again on the add ons list I'd imagine.
Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
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----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin" <kleeva5@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2018 6:38 PM
Subject: [nvda] say copy selected text


How can I set NVDA to say copy selected text to the clip board and other like commands when I copy, cut or paste!

E-mail is golden!!!
Kevin Lee






 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 




--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess 
Twitter: @NVAccess 


John Isige
 

Quentin:


Why would NVDA need to constantly know the contents of the clipboard? I
haven't been following this discussion, but NVDA has to know selected
text, yes? So all it needs to do is compare the selected text to the
clipboard after a copy operation. Otherwise, it doesn't need to care
about the clipboard at all.

On 2/4/2018 19:52, Gene wrote:
I'm saying that I know that JAWS and System access detected the
operation correctly.  I've tested it when there was nothing on the
clipboard and I got no indication that anything had occurred.  I don't
remember now if there was silence or some sort of message such as
nothing to copy.  That wasn't the phrase, if one was used.
I also tested with System Access and again, I wasn't told that copying
or pasting had occurred when there was nothing to copy or paste.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Quentin Christensen <mailto:quentin@nvaccess.org>
*Sent:* Sunday, February 04, 2018 5:53 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] say copy selected text

Can I just clarify what I said please - there is a difference between
detecting that a user has pressed control+c and assuming (perhaps even
by knowing we are in Word and there was text selected) that text has
been copied, and actually knowing that the contents of the clipboard
have changed, and how.  If done intelligently, then yes the first way
may be right most of the time and for the majority of users that may
be accurate enough.  If everything works, then yes, from a user's
perspective, it doesn't overly matter how the information was
ascertained, we just weren't comfortable reporting something that we
couldn't ascertain.

The other issue may be that ascertaining that information definitively
could come with a performance cost.  NVDA would need to constantly
know the state of the clipboard in order to know, when the user
presses CONTROL+C, whether the contents of the clipboard have changed.

Again, I'm not saying it can't change, or even disagreeing with the
argument for change, just presenting the original thinking and how we
got to where we are now.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Mon, Feb 5, 2018 at 10:15 AM, Gene <gsasner@ripco.com
<mailto:gsasner@ripco.com>> wrote:

I never had the JAWS copy and paste command not work except
perhaps very rarely when I had to restart the screen-reader to
cause it to work again.  But that means nothing about the
function.  At times, you have to restart programs because some
problem develops that is solved in that way.
Gene
----- Original Message ----
*From:* Chris Mullins <mailto:cjmullins29@gmail.com>
*Sent:* Sunday, February 04, 2018 5:02 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] say copy selected text

I used Jaws for years on XP and W7 and the cut/copy/paste  feature
never worked consistently.  The clipspeak add-on at least tells
you the keystroke you have pressed even if it may or may not have
worked and is less verbose than switching on the speak command
keys feature of NVDA.  I use clipspeak add-on and the only thing
that bugs me about it is that it says “Re-Do” when I use control+y
in MS Outlook and W10 Mail to display the folder list.

Cheers

Chris

*From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>] *On
Behalf Of *Gene
*Sent:* 4 February 2018 22:21
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] say copy selected text

It is important to consider doing so.  And as far as not being
able to detect this before, I don't know why. JAWS has done so at
least as far back as XP and probably much longer.  System Access
does this as well and has done so for years.

This is an important feature and shouldn't be relegated to an add on.

Gene

----- Original Message -----

*From:* Quentin Christensen <mailto:quentin@nvaccess.org>

*Sent:*Sunday, February 04, 2018 2:53 PM

*To:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

*Subject:*Re: [nvda] say copy selected text

The reason it isn't built in is precisely what you just said -
when it was first being looked at, we couldn't actually know
whether text had been cut, copied or pasted etc.  All we could do
was detect that control+c had been pressed and know that is
GENERALLY used for copy.  We didn't want to tell the user
something had been copied when it hadn't, so instead there is the
"Speak command keys" option (NVDA+4 or via the NVDA keyboard
preferences NVDA+control+k) which will read CONTROL+C in that
instance.

The SpeakClip add-on does read the command - cut, copy, paste,
select all etc.  It does make an effort to report this
intelligently.  I recall a conversation with someone recently who
said it is now more possible to accurately tell what has happened
(text has been cut, a file has been copied, etc).  If that is the
case, then it potentially could be considered to be built in.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Sun, Feb 4, 2018 at 7:59 PM, Brian's Mail list account via
Groups.Io <bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io
<mailto:bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io>> wrote:

Been here before. There is a fake clipboard announcement add on
but its not intelligent in that its really just reading the key
combinations. There was an intelligent one being developed but it
was slow and prone to malfunctions and creating memory errors in
Microsoft Word so I uninstalled it.
I have always said it should be designed in as a novice mode bit
of help, but at the time I think it was thought too hard to make
it take into account all the instances and get the indication correct.
This is one to bring up again on the add ons list I'd imagine.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk <mailto:bglists@blueyonder.co.uk>
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk <mailto:briang1@blueyonder.co.uk>,
putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin" <kleeva5@gmail.com
<mailto:kleeva5@gmail.com>>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>>
Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2018 6:38 PM
Subject: [nvda] say copy selected text


How can I set NVDA to say copy selected text to the clip board and
other like commands when I copy, cut or paste!

E-mail is golden!!!
Kevin Lee






--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now
available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
<http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/>

www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org/>

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
<http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess>
Twitter: @NVAccess




--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org/>
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess


Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

Yes, I did wonder though many years ago Dolphin had this in its novice mode and it seemed to actually be reliable in what it said, but of course I never did actually do exhaustive tests.

Besides, in those days most screenreaders used display chain drivers and it may well be that it could be detected by some subtle change in the screen content.
The clipspeak is very slow and buggy, sadly though in most cases it does work. Fails in Goldwave and creates spurious memory errors in some versions of word.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Quentin Christensen" <quentin@nvaccess.org>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2018 8:53 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] say copy selected text


The reason it isn't built in is precisely what you just said - when it was
first being looked at, we couldn't actually know whether text had been cut,
copied or pasted etc. All we could do was detect that control+c had been
pressed and know that is GENERALLY used for copy. We didn't want to tell
the user something had been copied when it hadn't, so instead there is the
"Speak command keys" option (NVDA+4 or via the NVDA keyboard preferences
NVDA+control+k) which will read CONTROL+C in that instance.

The SpeakClip add-on does read the command - cut, copy, paste, select all
etc. It does make an effort to report this intelligently. I recall a
conversation with someone recently who said it is now more possible to
accurately tell what has happened (text has been cut, a file has been
copied, etc). If that is the case, then it potentially could be considered
to be built in.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Sun, Feb 4, 2018 at 7:59 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <
bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:

Been here before. There is a fake clipboard announcement add on but its
not intelligent in that its really just reading the key combinations. There
was an intelligent one being developed but it was slow and prone to
malfunctions and creating memory errors in Microsoft Word so I uninstalled
it.
I have always said it should be designed in as a novice mode bit of help,
but at the time I think it was thought too hard to make it take into
account all the instances and get the indication correct.
This is one to bring up again on the add ons list I'd imagine.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin" <kleeva5@gmail.com>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2018 6:38 PM
Subject: [nvda] say copy selected text


How can I set NVDA to say copy selected text to the clip board and other
like commands when I copy, cut or paste!

E-mail is golden!!!
Kevin Lee






--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess


Brian's Mail list account <bglists@...>
 

I'm getting this sense of deja vue here, is it groundhog day again?
grin.
I seem to recall a long discussion with Jamie on one of these lists how just doing the compare of selected whatever it is can be misleading, but it was a while ago now. I did wonder if windows in some way indicates success by some graphical change to the sighted though.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Isige" <gwynn@tds.net>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, February 05, 2018 4:09 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] say copy selected text


Quentin:


Why would NVDA need to constantly know the contents of the clipboard? I
haven't been following this discussion, but NVDA has to know selected
text, yes? So all it needs to do is compare the selected text to the
clipboard after a copy operation. Otherwise, it doesn't need to care
about the clipboard at all.


On 2/4/2018 19:52, Gene wrote:
I'm saying that I know that JAWS and System access detected the
operation correctly. I've tested it when there was nothing on the
clipboard and I got no indication that anything had occurred. I don't
remember now if there was silence or some sort of message such as
nothing to copy. That wasn't the phrase, if one was used.
I also tested with System Access and again, I wasn't told that copying
or pasting had occurred when there was nothing to copy or paste.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Quentin Christensen <mailto:quentin@nvaccess.org>
*Sent:* Sunday, February 04, 2018 5:53 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] say copy selected text

Can I just clarify what I said please - there is a difference between
detecting that a user has pressed control+c and assuming (perhaps even
by knowing we are in Word and there was text selected) that text has
been copied, and actually knowing that the contents of the clipboard
have changed, and how. If done intelligently, then yes the first way
may be right most of the time and for the majority of users that may
be accurate enough. If everything works, then yes, from a user's
perspective, it doesn't overly matter how the information was
ascertained, we just weren't comfortable reporting something that we
couldn't ascertain.

The other issue may be that ascertaining that information definitively
could come with a performance cost. NVDA would need to constantly
know the state of the clipboard in order to know, when the user
presses CONTROL+C, whether the contents of the clipboard have changed.

Again, I'm not saying it can't change, or even disagreeing with the
argument for change, just presenting the original thinking and how we
got to where we are now.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Mon, Feb 5, 2018 at 10:15 AM, Gene <gsasner@ripco.com
<mailto:gsasner@ripco.com>> wrote:

I never had the JAWS copy and paste command not work except
perhaps very rarely when I had to restart the screen-reader to
cause it to work again. But that means nothing about the
function. At times, you have to restart programs because some
problem develops that is solved in that way.
Gene
----- Original Message ----
*From:* Chris Mullins <mailto:cjmullins29@gmail.com>
*Sent:* Sunday, February 04, 2018 5:02 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] say copy selected text

I used Jaws for years on XP and W7 and the cut/copy/paste feature
never worked consistently. The clipspeak add-on at least tells
you the keystroke you have pressed even if it may or may not have
worked and is less verbose than switching on the speak command
keys feature of NVDA. I use clipspeak add-on and the only thing
that bugs me about it is that it says “Re-Do” when I use control+y
in MS Outlook and W10 Mail to display the folder list.

Cheers

Chris

*From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>] *On
Behalf Of *Gene
*Sent:* 4 February 2018 22:21
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] say copy selected text

It is important to consider doing so. And as far as not being
able to detect this before, I don't know why. JAWS has done so at
least as far back as XP and probably much longer. System Access
does this as well and has done so for years.

This is an important feature and shouldn't be relegated to an add on.

Gene

----- Original Message -----

*From:* Quentin Christensen <mailto:quentin@nvaccess.org>

*Sent:*Sunday, February 04, 2018 2:53 PM

*To:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

*Subject:*Re: [nvda] say copy selected text

The reason it isn't built in is precisely what you just said -
when it was first being looked at, we couldn't actually know
whether text had been cut, copied or pasted etc. All we could do
was detect that control+c had been pressed and know that is
GENERALLY used for copy. We didn't want to tell the user
something had been copied when it hadn't, so instead there is the
"Speak command keys" option (NVDA+4 or via the NVDA keyboard
preferences NVDA+control+k) which will read CONTROL+C in that
instance.

The SpeakClip add-on does read the command - cut, copy, paste,
select all etc. It does make an effort to report this
intelligently. I recall a conversation with someone recently who
said it is now more possible to accurately tell what has happened
(text has been cut, a file has been copied, etc). If that is the
case, then it potentially could be considered to be built in.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Sun, Feb 4, 2018 at 7:59 PM, Brian's Mail list account via
Groups.Io <bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io
<mailto:bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io>> wrote:

Been here before. There is a fake clipboard announcement add on
but its not intelligent in that its really just reading the key
combinations. There was an intelligent one being developed but it
was slow and prone to malfunctions and creating memory errors in
Microsoft Word so I uninstalled it.
I have always said it should be designed in as a novice mode bit
of help, but at the time I think it was thought too hard to make
it take into account all the instances and get the indication correct.
This is one to bring up again on the add ons list I'd imagine.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk <mailto:bglists@blueyonder.co.uk>
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk <mailto:briang1@blueyonder.co.uk>,
putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin" <kleeva5@gmail.com
<mailto:kleeva5@gmail.com>>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>>
Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2018 6:38 PM
Subject: [nvda] say copy selected text


How can I set NVDA to say copy selected text to the clip board and
other like commands when I copy, cut or paste!

E-mail is golden!!!
Kevin Lee






--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now
available: http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
<http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/>

www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org/>

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
<http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess>
Twitter: @NVAccess




--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org/>
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess


Gene
 

This message is long but it states and explains in detail why copy and paste is an important feature, and even more so with the poorly designed, paternalistic, read contents of clipboard feature available now. 
 
Where else do you find it very slow and buggy?  From my use, it isn't very slow and buggy much of the time.  I found one program, free video converter, where it prevents pasting of an address into the program.  It says pasted but the address is still the last one you used when not using the plugin.  You said it had problems in Word.  I don't have Word.  But in Notepad and Wordpad, using XP, there are no problems.  There are no problems copying and pasting in My Computer's folders and files list, nor in Windows Explorer.  When copying files to the clipboard, it is slow in reporting that something is copied.  But I'd rather have a delay, I'm not sure how long yours willl be.  I'm using an old slow machine and on mine, the delay may be a second or one and one half seconds.  Well worth it when compared with this possibility.  You aren't using the add on.  You copied and pasted a lot of files or even five or six from place to place.  You go to copy and paste more files to the same or a different location.  Since you aren't using the plugin, you get no indication about whether files have been copied to the clipboard or pasted.  You find, to your considerable annoyance, after pasting, that you have pasted the previous files to another location or that you now have duplicates of every file you previously pasted because copy didn't work even though you used the correct command and entered it correctly as far as keyboard technique is concerned.  You now have to delete the files from where they have just been copied, tgo back, copy the files you do want again, and then paste again.  If you are using clipspeak, this won't happen. 
 
As I said, this is an important feature.  People try to fob this off by saying, you can check what you have copied to the clipboard by using the speak contents of clipboard command, available in NVDA.  That's fine for small amounts of text.  But the clipboard feature wants to be smarter than you are.  It is designed not to speak larger amounts of ttext, only telling the number of characters.  Great design!  What if I want to copy a large amount of text and I just copied another large amount of text and pasted it previously.  How is knowing the number of characters going to help if it's one thousand three hundred characters the previous time and one thousand one hundred twenty characters the second time?  Yes, if you make a point of remembering the previous number you'll know if copying occurred.  But who should have to do this?  This is 2017.  This is the equivalent of a crank starter on a model T Ford.  And, though very unlikely, the number of characters might be the same or differ only by a few numbers such as one thousand two hundred fifty five and one thousand two hundred fifty two.  Or it may be more, two thousand three hundred twenty five.  Unless you really make an effort to remember the first number, you may not realize that the second number is different or you may not be sure.  In addition, when you copy files or folders to the clipboard, you are told something like no text on clipboard.  That's really helpful in teling you what files /and or folders you have pasted. 
 
If these levels of disfunction and poor design are acceptable in this feature, then why isn't a certain amount of inaccuracy acceptable in copying and pasting?  And I see no evidence that such is necessary based on past experience with JAWS and System Access to go. 
 
In short, the read contents of clipboard should be redesigned and should read everything that's there.  Programmers should not assume what is best for the user in a case like this.  It's paternalistic.  All the reader has to do to stop reading is press control, as in all other cases where speech is occurring.  As I recall, the excuse for not having the feature work that way is that the reader probably won't want to hear extended text.  Fine.  So let the reader press control. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, February 05, 2018 3:53 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] say copy selected text

Yes, I did wonder though many years ago  Dolphin had this in its novice mode
and it seemed to actually be reliable in what it said, but of course I never
did actually do exhaustive tests.

Besides, in those days most screenreaders used display chain drivers and it
may well be that it could be detected by some subtle change in the screen
content.
 The clipspeak is very slow and buggy, sadly though in most cases it does
work. Fails in Goldwave and creates spurious memory errors in some versions
of word.
 Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Quentin Christensen" <quentin@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2018 8:53 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] say copy selected text


> The reason it isn't built in is precisely what you just said - when it was
> first being looked at, we couldn't actually know whether text had been
> cut,
> copied or pasted etc.  All we could do was detect that control+c had been
> pressed and know that is GENERALLY used for copy.  We didn't want to tell
> the user something had been copied when it hadn't, so instead there is the
> "Speak command keys" option (NVDA+4 or via the NVDA keyboard preferences
> NVDA+control+k) which will read CONTROL+C in that instance.
>
> The SpeakClip add-on does read the command - cut, copy, paste, select all
> etc.  It does make an effort to report this intelligently.  I recall a
> conversation with someone recently who said it is now more possible to
> accurately tell what has happened (text has been cut, a file has been
> copied, etc).  If that is the case, then it potentially could be
> considered
> to be built in.
>
> Kind regards
>
> Quentin.
>
> On Sun, Feb 4, 2018 at 7:59 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <
> bglists@...> wrote:
>
>> Been here before. There is a fake clipboard announcement add on but its
>> not intelligent in that its really just reading the key combinations.
>> There
>> was an intelligent one being developed but it was slow and prone to
>> malfunctions and creating memory errors in Microsoft Word so I
>> uninstalled
>> it.
>> I have always said it should be designed in as a novice mode bit of help,
>> but at the time I think it was thought too hard to make it take into
>> account all the instances and get the indication correct.
>> This is one to bring up again on the add ons list I'd imagine.
>> Brian
>>
>> bglists@...
>> Sent via blueyonder.
>> Please address personal email to:-
>> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
>> in the display name field.
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin" <kleeva5@...>
>> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>> Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2018 6:38 PM
>> Subject: [nvda] say copy selected text
>>
>>
>> How can I set NVDA to say copy selected text to the clip board and other
>> like commands when I copy, cut or paste!
>>
>> E-mail is golden!!!
>> Kevin Lee
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Quentin Christensen
> Training and Support Manager
>
> Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available:
> http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
>
> www.nvaccess.org
> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
> Twitter: @NVAccess
>




Dennis L <dennisl1982@...>
 


I agree if Jaws and other screen readers can properly do this so should NVDA

----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Monday, February 5, 2018 7:50 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] say copy selected text

This message is long but it states and explains in detail why copy and paste is an important feature, and even more so with the poorly designed, paternalistic, read contents of clipboard feature available now. 
 
Where else do you find it very slow and buggy?  From my use, it isn't very slow and buggy much of the time.  I found one program, free video converter, where it prevents pasting of an address into the program.  It says pasted but the address is still the last one you used when not using the plugin.  You said it had problems in Word.  I don't have Word.  But in Notepad and Wordpad, using XP, there are no problems.  There are no problems copying and pasting in My Computer's folders and files list, nor in Windows Explorer.  When copying files to the clipboard, it is slow in reporting that something is copied.  But I'd rather have a delay, I'm not sure how long yours willl be.  I'm using an old slow machine and on mine, the delay may be a second or one and one half seconds.  Well worth it when compared with this possibility.  You aren't using the add on.  You copied and pasted a lot of files or even five or six from place to place.  You go to copy and paste more files to the same or a different location.  Since you aren't using the plugin, you get no indication about whether files have been copied to the clipboard or pasted.  You find, to your considerable annoyance, after pasting, that you have pasted the previous files to another location or that you now have duplicates of every file you previously pasted because copy didn't work even though you used the correct command and entered it correctly as far as keyboard technique is concerned.  You now have to delete the files from where they have just been copied, tgo back, copy the files you do want again, and then paste again.  If you are using clipspeak, this won't happen. 
 
As I said, this is an important feature.  People try to fob this off by saying, you can check what you have copied to the clipboard by using the speak contents of clipboard command, available in NVDA.  That's fine for small amounts of text.  But the clipboard feature wants to be smarter than you are.  It is designed not to speak larger amounts of ttext, only telling the number of characters.  Great design!  What if I want to copy a large amount of text and I just copied another large amount of text and pasted it previously.  How is knowing the number of characters going to help if it's one thousand three hundred characters the previous time and one thousand one hundred twenty characters the second time?  Yes, if you make a point of remembering the previous number you'll know if copying occurred.  But who should have to do this?  This is 2017.  This is the equivalent of a crank starter on a model T Ford.  And, though very unlikely, the number of characters might be the same or differ only by a few numbers such as one thousand two hundred fifty five and one thousand two hundred fifty two.  Or it may be more, two thousand three hundred twenty five.  Unless you really make an effort to remember the first number, you may not realize that the second number is different or you may not be sure.  In addition, when you copy files or folders to the clipboard, you are told something like no text on clipboard.  That's really helpful in teling you what files /and or folders you have pasted. 
 
If these levels of disfunction and poor design are acceptable in this feature, then why isn't a certain amount of inaccuracy acceptable in copying and pasting?  And I see no evidence that such is necessary based on past experience with JAWS and System Access to go. 
 
In short, the read contents of clipboard should be redesigned and should read everything that's there.  Programmers should not assume what is best for the user in a case like this.  It's paternalistic.  All the reader has to do to stop reading is press control, as in all other cases where speech is occurring.  As I recall, the excuse for not having the feature work that way is that the reader probably won't want to hear extended text.  Fine.  So let the reader press control. 
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, February 05, 2018 3:53 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] say copy selected text

Yes, I did wonder though many years ago  Dolphin had this in its novice mode
and it seemed to actually be reliable in what it said, but of course I never
did actually do exhaustive tests.

Besides, in those days most screenreaders used display chain drivers and it
may well be that it could be detected by some subtle change in the screen
content.
 The clipspeak is very slow and buggy, sadly though in most cases it does
work. Fails in Goldwave and creates spurious memory errors in some versions
of word.
 Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Quentin Christensen" <quentin@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2018 8:53 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] say copy selected text


> The reason it isn't built in is precisely what you just said - when it was
> first being looked at, we couldn't actually know whether text had been
> cut,
> copied or pasted etc.  All we could do was detect that control+c had been
> pressed and know that is GENERALLY used for copy.  We didn't want to tell
> the user something had been copied when it hadn't, so instead there is the
> "Speak command keys" option (NVDA+4 or via the NVDA keyboard preferences
> NVDA+control+k) which will read CONTROL+C in that instance.
>
> The SpeakClip add-on does read the command - cut, copy, paste, select all
> etc.  It does make an effort to report this intelligently.  I recall a
> conversation with someone recently who said it is now more possible to
> accurately tell what has happened (text has been cut, a file has been
> copied, etc).  If that is the case, then it potentially could be
> considered
> to be built in.
>
> Kind regards
>
> Quentin.
>
> On Sun, Feb 4, 2018 at 7:59 PM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io <
> bglists@...> wrote:
>
>> Been here before. There is a fake clipboard announcement add on but its
>> not intelligent in that its really just reading the key combinations.
>> There
>> was an intelligent one being developed but it was slow and prone to
>> malfunctions and creating memory errors in Microsoft Word so I
>> uninstalled
>> it.
>> I have always said it should be designed in as a novice mode bit of help,
>> but at the time I think it was thought too hard to make it take into
>> account all the instances and get the indication correct.
>> This is one to bring up again on the add ons list I'd imagine.
>> Brian
>>
>> bglists@...
>> Sent via blueyonder.
>> Please address personal email to:-
>> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
>> in the display name field.
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin" <kleeva5@...>
>> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>> Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2018 6:38 PM
>> Subject: [nvda] say copy selected text
>>
>>
>> How can I set NVDA to say copy selected text to the clip board and other
>> like commands when I copy, cut or paste!
>>
>> E-mail is golden!!!
>> Kevin Lee
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Quentin Christensen
> Training and Support Manager
>
> Official NVDA Training modules and expert certification now available:
> http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
>
> www.nvaccess.org
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>