A suggestion about the NVDA update process


Giles Turnbull
 

This is a suggestion relating to the NVDA updater, rather than NVDA itself, and it's a question really for the programmers behind that installer.

I started updating to NVDA 2021.1 on my Microsoft Surface Pro 4 tablet at about 1pm. At 3pm the progress beeps were still beeping and, assuming the update had hit a problem, I tried to abort the update but discovered there was no way to cancel the update.

Curious whether the update process would hang on my Dell laptop, I turned that on and was prompted that a new version of NVDA was available. I launched it and, immediately after the download had finished and I'd activated the Install button, I was taken to the Windows permissions prompt. And that is when I twigged that I'd not been taken to that on my tablet. When I returned to my tablet and Alt+Tabbed around the running programs , indeed the permissions promt was open, but I hadn't been taken to it, nor had I been notified it had opened and was expecting a response.

So my suggestion / question is whether there is any way that the progress beeps can be started only after the security button has been confirmed, rather than as soon as the Update button has been pressed. If the updater hadn't spent 2 hours beeping, then I wouldn't have thought it was doing something (or attempting to do something) as part of the update process.

The moment I found the security prompt and confirmed I wanted to go ahead with the installation, it completed within 30 seconds, as it usually does!

Just a thought :)

Giles


Ron Canazzi
 

Hi Group,

I can't remember when this started, but sometime in the past few years, i have been experiencing the same thing. It seems that for some reason, the (I guess it is called) runtime version of NVDA installer or whatever it's called, does not shift focus immediately to the Windows UAC console when you try installing a program that Windows is not sure of.


On 7/13/2021 1:37 PM, Giles Turnbull wrote:
This is a suggestion relating to the NVDA updater, rather than NVDA itself, and it's a question really for the programmers behind that installer.

I started updating to NVDA 2021.1 on my Microsoft Surface Pro 4 tablet at about 1pm. At 3pm the progress beeps were still beeping and, assuming the update had hit a problem, I tried to abort the update but discovered there was no way to cancel the update.

Curious whether the update process would hang on my Dell laptop, I turned that on and was prompted that a new version of NVDA was available. I launched it and, immediately after the download had finished and I'd activated the Install button, I was taken to the Windows permissions prompt. And that is when I twigged that I'd not been taken to that on my tablet. When I returned to my tablet and Alt+Tabbed around the running programs , indeed the permissions promt was open, but I hadn't been taken to it, nor had I been notified it had opened and was expecting a response.

So my suggestion / question is whether there is any way that the progress beeps can be started only after the security button has been confirmed, rather than as soon as the Update button has been pressed. If the updater hadn't spent 2 hours beeping, then I wouldn't have thought it was doing something (or attempting to do something) as part of the update process.

The moment I found the security prompt and confirmed I wanted to go ahead with the installation, it completed within 30 seconds, as it usually does!

Just a thought :)

Giles

-- 
Signature:
For a nation to admit it has done grevous wrongs and will strive to correct them for the betterment of all is no vice;
For a nation to claim it has always been great, needs no improvement  and to cling to its past achievements is no virtue!


Quentin Christensen
 

AFAIK, at least based on my experience - nothing has changed, it's just that sometimes (maybe based on running programs? or whether Mercury is retrograde?) - sometimes that user account control dialog that you need to acknowledge when installing or updating software, appears behind every other window and doesn't get focus.  More often than not it works fine for me and grabs focus when it appears though.

Actually I was surprised by the three hour wait - I thought that dialog timed out after about 20 seconds and automatically failed if you didn't acknowledge it.

On Wed, Jul 14, 2021 at 5:03 AM Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@...> wrote:
Hi Group,

I can't remember when this started, but sometime in the past few years, i have been experiencing the same thing. It seems that for some reason, the (I guess it is called) runtime version of NVDA installer or whatever it's called, does not shift focus immediately to the Windows UAC console when you try installing a program that Windows is not sure of.


On 7/13/2021 1:37 PM, Giles Turnbull wrote:
This is a suggestion relating to the NVDA updater, rather than NVDA itself, and it's a question really for the programmers behind that installer.

I started updating to NVDA 2021.1 on my Microsoft Surface Pro 4 tablet at about 1pm. At 3pm the progress beeps were still beeping and, assuming the update had hit a problem, I tried to abort the update but discovered there was no way to cancel the update.

Curious whether the update process would hang on my Dell laptop, I turned that on and was prompted that a new version of NVDA was available. I launched it and, immediately after the download had finished and I'd activated the Install button, I was taken to the Windows permissions prompt. And that is when I twigged that I'd not been taken to that on my tablet. When I returned to my tablet and Alt+Tabbed around the running programs , indeed the permissions promt was open, but I hadn't been taken to it, nor had I been notified it had opened and was expecting a response.

So my suggestion / question is whether there is any way that the progress beeps can be started only after the security button has been confirmed, rather than as soon as the Update button has been pressed. If the updater hadn't spent 2 hours beeping, then I wouldn't have thought it was doing something (or attempting to do something) as part of the update process.

The moment I found the security prompt and confirmed I wanted to go ahead with the installation, it completed within 30 seconds, as it usually does!

Just a thought :)

Giles

-- 
Signature:
For a nation to admit it has done grevous wrongs and will strive to correct them for the betterment of all is no vice;
For a nation to claim it has always been great, needs no improvement  and to cling to its past achievements is no virtue!



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Hope Williamson
 

Oh, here's a trick that will make life easier for everyone. Disable UAC. Obviously you have to be careful about installing random stuff, but you should do that anyway.

On 7/13/2021 8:00 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
AFAIK, at least based on my experience - nothing has changed, it's just that sometimes (maybe based on running programs? or whether Mercury is retrograde?) - sometimes that user account control dialog that you need to acknowledge when installing or updating software, appears behind every other window and doesn't get focus.  More often than not it works fine for me and grabs focus when it appears though.

Actually I was surprised by the three hour wait - I thought that dialog timed out after about 20 seconds and automatically failed if you didn't acknowledge it.

On Wed, Jul 14, 2021 at 5:03 AM Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@...> wrote:
Hi Group,

I can't remember when this started, but sometime in the past few years, i have been experiencing the same thing. It seems that for some reason, the (I guess it is called) runtime version of NVDA installer or whatever it's called, does not shift focus immediately to the Windows UAC console when you try installing a program that Windows is not sure of.


On 7/13/2021 1:37 PM, Giles Turnbull wrote:
This is a suggestion relating to the NVDA updater, rather than NVDA itself, and it's a question really for the programmers behind that installer.

I started updating to NVDA 2021.1 on my Microsoft Surface Pro 4 tablet at about 1pm. At 3pm the progress beeps were still beeping and, assuming the update had hit a problem, I tried to abort the update but discovered there was no way to cancel the update.

Curious whether the update process would hang on my Dell laptop, I turned that on and was prompted that a new version of NVDA was available. I launched it and, immediately after the download had finished and I'd activated the Install button, I was taken to the Windows permissions prompt. And that is when I twigged that I'd not been taken to that on my tablet. When I returned to my tablet and Alt+Tabbed around the running programs , indeed the permissions promt was open, but I hadn't been taken to it, nor had I been notified it had opened and was expecting a response.

So my suggestion / question is whether there is any way that the progress beeps can be started only after the security button has been confirmed, rather than as soon as the Update button has been pressed. If the updater hadn't spent 2 hours beeping, then I wouldn't have thought it was doing something (or attempting to do something) as part of the update process.

The moment I found the security prompt and confirmed I wanted to go ahead with the installation, it completed within 30 seconds, as it usually does!

Just a thought :)

Giles

--
Signature:
For a nation to admit it has done grevous wrongs and will strive to correct them for the betterment of all is no vice;
For a nation to claim it has always been great, needs no improvement  and to cling to its past achievements is no virtue!


--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Gene
 

I think people are too casual about disabling security utilities if they cause a small amount of inconvenience.  The whole point of UAC is that it makes it less likely that software will be installed on your machine even if you are careful.  You don’t necessarily have the ability to refuse unwanted software, such as malware.  Sites may have hacked third party advertising which may try to install it without user notice or intervention.  Is avoiding the slight inconvenience of having to use alt y when UAC comes up worth the much worse problems malware can cause?  Even if you have to alt tab to the window first, is avoiding that annoyance worth dealing with malware on your machine?
 
I’ve seen it claimed that UAC is easily evaded by malware designers.  That may be.  I’ve seen little discussion of that.  But even if it only prevents thirty or forty percent of installations, I’d gladdly have the small inconveniences it causes. 
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2021 11:21 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] A suggestion about the NVDA update process
 

Oh, here's a trick that will make life easier for everyone. Disable UAC. Obviously you have to be careful about installing random stuff, but you should do that anyway.

On 7/13/2021 8:00 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
AFAIK, at least based on my experience - nothing has changed, it's just that sometimes (maybe based on running programs? or whether Mercury is retrograde?) - sometimes that user account control dialog that you need to acknowledge when installing or updating software, appears behind every other window and doesn't get focus.  More often than not it works fine for me and grabs focus when it appears though.
 
Actually I was surprised by the three hour wait - I thought that dialog timed out after about 20 seconds and automatically failed if you didn't acknowledge it.
 
On Wed, Jul 14, 2021 at 5:03 AM Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@...> wrote:
Hi Group,

I can't remember when this started, but sometime in the past few years, i have been experiencing the same thing. It seems that for some reason, the (I guess it is called) runtime version of NVDA installer or whatever it's called, does not shift focus immediately to the Windows UAC console when you try installing a program that Windows is not sure of.


On 7/13/2021 1:37 PM, Giles Turnbull wrote:
This is a suggestion relating to the NVDA updater, rather than NVDA itself, and it's a question really for the programmers behind that installer.

I started updating to NVDA 2021.1 on my Microsoft Surface Pro 4 tablet at about 1pm. At 3pm the progress beeps were still beeping and, assuming the update had hit a problem, I tried to abort the update but discovered there was no way to cancel the update.

Curious whether the update process would hang on my Dell laptop, I turned that on and was prompted that a new version of NVDA was available. I launched it and, immediately after the download had finished and I'd activated the Install button, I was taken to the Windows permissions prompt. And that is when I twigged that I'd not been taken to that on my tablet. When I returned to my tablet and Alt+Tabbed around the running programs , indeed the permissions promt was open, but I hadn't been taken to it, nor had I been notified it had opened and was expecting a response.

So my suggestion / question is whether there is any way that the progress beeps can be started only after the security button has been confirmed, rather than as soon as the Update button has been pressed. If the updater hadn't spent 2 hours beeping, then I wouldn't have thought it was doing something (or attempting to do something) as part of the update process.

The moment I found the security prompt and confirmed I wanted to go ahead with the installation, it completed within 30 seconds, as it usually does!

Just a thought :)

Giles

--
Signature:
For a nation to admit it has done grevous wrongs and will strive to correct them for the betterment of all is no vice;
For a nation to claim it has always been great, needs no improvement  and to cling to its past achievements is no virtue!
 
 
--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Monte Single
 

Hi Quinton and List,

 

I have experienced the UAC in background problem  in various instances.

Who knows why it slips to the background.

I have just learned to alt tab to it if it does not come to focus when I expect it to.

 

Cheers,

 

Monte

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Quentin Christensen
Sent: July 13, 2021 9:00 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] A suggestion about the NVDA update process

 

AFAIK, at least based on my experience - nothing has changed, it's just that sometimes (maybe based on running programs? or whether Mercury is retrograde?) - sometimes that user account control dialog that you need to acknowledge when installing or updating software, appears behind every other window and doesn't get focus.  More often than not it works fine for me and grabs focus when it appears though.

 

Actually I was surprised by the three hour wait - I thought that dialog timed out after about 20 seconds and automatically failed if you didn't acknowledge it.

 

On Wed, Jul 14, 2021 at 5:03 AM Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@...> wrote:

Hi Group,

I can't remember when this started, but sometime in the past few years, i have been experiencing the same thing. It seems that for some reason, the (I guess it is called) runtime version of NVDA installer or whatever it's called, does not shift focus immediately to the Windows UAC console when you try installing a program that Windows is not sure of.

On 7/13/2021 1:37 PM, Giles Turnbull wrote:

This is a suggestion relating to the NVDA updater, rather than NVDA itself, and it's a question really for the programmers behind that installer.

I started updating to NVDA 2021.1 on my Microsoft Surface Pro 4 tablet at about 1pm. At 3pm the progress beeps were still beeping and, assuming the update had hit a problem, I tried to abort the update but discovered there was no way to cancel the update.

Curious whether the update process would hang on my Dell laptop, I turned that on and was prompted that a new version of NVDA was available. I launched it and, immediately after the download had finished and I'd activated the Install button, I was taken to the Windows permissions prompt. And that is when I twigged that I'd not been taken to that on my tablet. When I returned to my tablet and Alt+Tabbed around the running programs , indeed the permissions promt was open, but I hadn't been taken to it, nor had I been notified it had opened and was expecting a response.

So my suggestion / question is whether there is any way that the progress beeps can be started only after the security button has been confirmed, rather than as soon as the Update button has been pressed. If the updater hadn't spent 2 hours beeping, then I wouldn't have thought it was doing something (or attempting to do something) as part of the update process.

The moment I found the security prompt and confirmed I wanted to go ahead with the installation, it completed within 30 seconds, as it usually does!

Just a thought :)

Giles



-- 
Signature:
For a nation to admit it has done grevous wrongs and will strive to correct them for the betterment of all is no vice;
For a nation to claim it has always been great, needs no improvement  and to cling to its past achievements is no virtue!


 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 


Hope Williamson
 

Well if you run 3 ad blockers like me you probably won't have that problem. I'm not saying it won't happen, but it's fairly unlikely. I run 3 because Youtube ads were getting past uBlock origin. When I was looking for an Youtube ad blocker, I decided to install another general one. I know they work because every time a link mismatch happens with TTT for instance, they both come up and tell me that that particular bit.ly redirect is restricted. I use pretty much all the filters that are available in the extensions, so I try to block as much as possible. I even have to use private windows on some sites because they don't like my ad blockers. Mostly network TV sites.



On 7/13/2021 9:29 PM, Gene wrote:

I think people are too casual about disabling security utilities if they cause a small amount of inconvenience.  The whole point of UAC is that it makes it less likely that software will be installed on your machine even if you are careful.  You don’t necessarily have the ability to refuse unwanted software, such as malware.  Sites may have hacked third party advertising which may try to install it without user notice or intervention.  Is avoiding the slight inconvenience of having to use alt y when UAC comes up worth the much worse problems malware can cause?  Even if you have to alt tab to the window first, is avoiding that annoyance worth dealing with malware on your machine?
 
I’ve seen it claimed that UAC is easily evaded by malware designers.  That may be.  I’ve seen little discussion of that.  But even if it only prevents thirty or forty percent of installations, I’d gladdly have the small inconveniences it causes. 
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2021 11:21 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] A suggestion about the NVDA update process
 

Oh, here's a trick that will make life easier for everyone. Disable UAC. Obviously you have to be careful about installing random stuff, but you should do that anyway.

On 7/13/2021 8:00 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
AFAIK, at least based on my experience - nothing has changed, it's just that sometimes (maybe based on running programs? or whether Mercury is retrograde?) - sometimes that user account control dialog that you need to acknowledge when installing or updating software, appears behind every other window and doesn't get focus.  More often than not it works fine for me and grabs focus when it appears though.
 
Actually I was surprised by the three hour wait - I thought that dialog timed out after about 20 seconds and automatically failed if you didn't acknowledge it.
 
On Wed, Jul 14, 2021 at 5:03 AM Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@...> wrote:
Hi Group,

I can't remember when this started, but sometime in the past few years, i have been experiencing the same thing. It seems that for some reason, the (I guess it is called) runtime version of NVDA installer or whatever it's called, does not shift focus immediately to the Windows UAC console when you try installing a program that Windows is not sure of.


On 7/13/2021 1:37 PM, Giles Turnbull wrote:
This is a suggestion relating to the NVDA updater, rather than NVDA itself, and it's a question really for the programmers behind that installer.

I started updating to NVDA 2021.1 on my Microsoft Surface Pro 4 tablet at about 1pm. At 3pm the progress beeps were still beeping and, assuming the update had hit a problem, I tried to abort the update but discovered there was no way to cancel the update.

Curious whether the update process would hang on my Dell laptop, I turned that on and was prompted that a new version of NVDA was available. I launched it and, immediately after the download had finished and I'd activated the Install button, I was taken to the Windows permissions prompt. And that is when I twigged that I'd not been taken to that on my tablet. When I returned to my tablet and Alt+Tabbed around the running programs , indeed the permissions promt was open, but I hadn't been taken to it, nor had I been notified it had opened and was expecting a response.

So my suggestion / question is whether there is any way that the progress beeps can be started only after the security button has been confirmed, rather than as soon as the Update button has been pressed. If the updater hadn't spent 2 hours beeping, then I wouldn't have thought it was doing something (or attempting to do something) as part of the update process.

The moment I found the security prompt and confirmed I wanted to go ahead with the installation, it completed within 30 seconds, as it usually does!

Just a thought :)

Giles

--
Signature:
For a nation to admit it has done grevous wrongs and will strive to correct them for the betterment of all is no vice;
For a nation to claim it has always been great, needs no improvement  and to cling to its past achievements is no virtue!
 
 
--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


 

I've experienced that too, with the UAC getting thrown into the background.
Though alt+tabbing works, I also wonder whether the fact that UAC gets thrown into the background at times is a Windows issue or a NVDA issue.


JM Casey
 

The UAC is your friend. If you ever see it come up when you don’t think it should, you are right to be suspicious. UAC appears when a programme wants to do something “out of bounds” of normal user processes…so no, it won’t protect you if, say, something installed wants to delete your documents folder, but it will try and alert you about the potential instalation of unwanted stuff in the first place.

When NVDA updates…just say yes.

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: July 14, 2021 12:30 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] A suggestion about the NVDA update process

 

I think people are too casual about disabling security utilities if they cause a small amount of inconvenience.  The whole point of UAC is that it makes it less likely that software will be installed on your machine even if you are careful.  You don’t necessarily have the ability to refuse unwanted software, such as malware.  Sites may have hacked third party advertising which may try to install it without user notice or intervention.  Is avoiding the slight inconvenience of having to use alt y when UAC comes up worth the much worse problems malware can cause?  Even if you have to alt tab to the window first, is avoiding that annoyance worth dealing with malware on your machine?

 

I’ve seen it claimed that UAC is easily evaded by malware designers.  That may be.  I’ve seen little discussion of that.  But even if it only prevents thirty or forty percent of installations, I’d gladdly have the small inconveniences it causes. 

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2021 11:21 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] A suggestion about the NVDA update process

 

Oh, here's a trick that will make life easier for everyone. Disable UAC. Obviously you have to be careful about installing random stuff, but you should do that anyway.

On 7/13/2021 8:00 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:

AFAIK, at least based on my experience - nothing has changed, it's just that sometimes (maybe based on running programs? or whether Mercury is retrograde?) - sometimes that user account control dialog that you need to acknowledge when installing or updating software, appears behind every other window and doesn't get focus.  More often than not it works fine for me and grabs focus when it appears though.

 

Actually I was surprised by the three hour wait - I thought that dialog timed out after about 20 seconds and automatically failed if you didn't acknowledge it.

 

On Wed, Jul 14, 2021 at 5:03 AM Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@...> wrote:

Hi Group,

I can't remember when this started, but sometime in the past few years, i have been experiencing the same thing. It seems that for some reason, the (I guess it is called) runtime version of NVDA installer or whatever it's called, does not shift focus immediately to the Windows UAC console when you try installing a program that Windows is not sure of.

On 7/13/2021 1:37 PM, Giles Turnbull wrote:

This is a suggestion relating to the NVDA updater, rather than NVDA itself, and it's a question really for the programmers behind that installer.

I started updating to NVDA 2021.1 on my Microsoft Surface Pro 4 tablet at about 1pm. At 3pm the progress beeps were still beeping and, assuming the update had hit a problem, I tried to abort the update but discovered there was no way to cancel the update.

Curious whether the update process would hang on my Dell laptop, I turned that on and was prompted that a new version of NVDA was available. I launched it and, immediately after the download had finished and I'd activated the Install button, I was taken to the Windows permissions prompt. And that is when I twigged that I'd not been taken to that on my tablet. When I returned to my tablet and Alt+Tabbed around the running programs , indeed the permissions promt was open, but I hadn't been taken to it, nor had I been notified it had opened and was expecting a response.

So my suggestion / question is whether there is any way that the progress beeps can be started only after the security button has been confirmed, rather than as soon as the Update button has been pressed. If the updater hadn't spent 2 hours beeping, then I wouldn't have thought it was doing something (or attempting to do something) as part of the update process.

The moment I found the security prompt and confirmed I wanted to go ahead with the installation, it completed within 30 seconds, as it usually does!

Just a thought :)

Giles



--
Signature:
For a nation to admit it has done grevous wrongs and will strive to correct them for the betterment of all is no vice;
For a nation to claim it has always been great, needs no improvement  and to cling to its past achievements is no virtue!

 

 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 


Sarah k Alawami
 

I've had more issues with UAC that without it. And besides i have smart security and i scann every 3 days, so for me i'm good.

On 13 Jul 2021, at 21:29, Gene wrote:

I think people are too casual about disabling security utilities if they cause a small amount of inconvenience.  The whole point of UAC is that it makes it less likely that software will be installed on your machine even if you are careful.  You don’t necessarily have the ability to refuse unwanted software, such as malware.  Sites may have hacked third party advertising which may try to install it without user notice or intervention.  Is avoiding the slight inconvenience of having to use alt y when UAC comes up worth the much worse problems malware can cause?  Even if you have to alt tab to the window first, is avoiding that annoyance worth dealing with malware on your machine?
 
I’ve seen it claimed that UAC is easily evaded by malware designers.  That may be.  I’ve seen little discussion of that.  But even if it only prevents thirty or forty percent of installations, I’d gladdly have the small inconveniences it causes. 
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2021 11:21 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] A suggestion about the NVDA update process
 

Oh, here's a trick that will make life easier for everyone. Disable UAC. Obviously you have to be careful about installing random stuff, but you should do that anyway.

On 7/13/2021 8:00 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
AFAIK, at least based on my experience - nothing has changed, it's just that sometimes (maybe based on running programs? or whether Mercury is retrograde?) - sometimes that user account control dialog that you need to acknowledge when installing or updating software, appears behind every other window and doesn't get focus.  More often than not it works fine for me and grabs focus when it appears though.
 
Actually I was surprised by the three hour wait - I thought that dialog timed out after about 20 seconds and automatically failed if you didn't acknowledge it.
 
On Wed, Jul 14, 2021 at 5:03 AM Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@...> wrote:
Hi Group,

I can't remember when this started, but sometime in the past few years, i have been experiencing the same thing. It seems that for some reason, the (I guess it is called) runtime version of NVDA installer or whatever it's called, does not shift focus immediately to the Windows UAC console when you try installing a program that Windows is not sure of.


On 7/13/2021 1:37 PM, Giles Turnbull wrote:
This is a suggestion relating to the NVDA updater, rather than NVDA itself, and it's a question really for the programmers behind that installer.

I started updating to NVDA 2021.1 on my Microsoft Surface Pro 4 tablet at about 1pm. At 3pm the progress beeps were still beeping and, assuming the update had hit a problem, I tried to abort the update but discovered there was no way to cancel the update.

Curious whether the update process would hang on my Dell laptop, I turned that on and was prompted that a new version of NVDA was available. I launched it and, immediately after the download had finished and I'd activated the Install button, I was taken to the Windows permissions prompt. And that is when I twigged that I'd not been taken to that on my tablet. When I returned to my tablet and Alt+Tabbed around the running programs , indeed the permissions promt was open, but I hadn't been taken to it, nor had I been notified it had opened and was expecting a response.

So my suggestion / question is whether there is any way that the progress beeps can be started only after the security button has been confirmed, rather than as soon as the Update button has been pressed. If the updater hadn't spent 2 hours beeping, then I wouldn't have thought it was doing something (or attempting to do something) as part of the update process.

The moment I found the security prompt and confirmed I wanted to go ahead with the installation, it completed within 30 seconds, as it usually does!

Just a thought :)

Giles

--
Signature:
For a nation to admit it has done grevous wrongs and will strive to correct them for the betterment of all is no vice;
For a nation to claim it has always been great, needs no improvement  and to cling to its past achievements is no virtue!
 
 
--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Pamela Dominguez
 

Yes, I definitely have to agree with you on that point!  I have never disabled mine.  Pam.
 

From: Gene
Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2021 12:29 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] A suggestion about the NVDA update process
 
I think people are too casual about disabling security utilities if they cause a small amount of inconvenience.  The whole point of UAC is that it makes it less likely that software will be installed on your machine even if you are careful.  You don’t necessarily have the ability to refuse unwanted software, such as malware.  Sites may have hacked third party advertising which may try to install it without user notice or intervention.  Is avoiding the slight inconvenience of having to use alt y when UAC comes up worth the much worse problems malware can cause?  Even if you have to alt tab to the window first, is avoiding that annoyance worth dealing with malware on your machine?
 
I’ve seen it claimed that UAC is easily evaded by malware designers.  That may be.  I’ve seen little discussion of that.  But even if it only prevents thirty or forty percent of installations, I’d gladdly have the small inconveniences it causes. 
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2021 11:21 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] A suggestion about the NVDA update process
 

Oh, here's a trick that will make life easier for everyone. Disable UAC. Obviously you have to be careful about installing random stuff, but you should do that anyway.

On 7/13/2021 8:00 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
AFAIK, at least based on my experience - nothing has changed, it's just that sometimes (maybe based on running programs? or whether Mercury is retrograde?) - sometimes that user account control dialog that you need to acknowledge when installing or updating software, appears behind every other window and doesn't get focus.  More often than not it works fine for me and grabs focus when it appears though.
 
Actually I was surprised by the three hour wait - I thought that dialog timed out after about 20 seconds and automatically failed if you didn't acknowledge it.
 
On Wed, Jul 14, 2021 at 5:03 AM Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@...> wrote:
Hi Group,

I can't remember when this started, but sometime in the past few years, i have been experiencing the same thing. It seems that for some reason, the (I guess it is called) runtime version of NVDA installer or whatever it's called, does not shift focus immediately to the Windows UAC console when you try installing a program that Windows is not sure of.


On 7/13/2021 1:37 PM, Giles Turnbull wrote:
This is a suggestion relating to the NVDA updater, rather than NVDA itself, and it's a question really for the programmers behind that installer.

I started updating to NVDA 2021.1 on my Microsoft Surface Pro 4 tablet at about 1pm. At 3pm the progress beeps were still beeping and, assuming the update had hit a problem, I tried to abort the update but discovered there was no way to cancel the update.

Curious whether the update process would hang on my Dell laptop, I turned that on and was prompted that a new version of NVDA was available. I launched it and, immediately after the download had finished and I'd activated the Install button, I was taken to the Windows permissions prompt. And that is when I twigged that I'd not been taken to that on my tablet. When I returned to my tablet and Alt+Tabbed around the running programs , indeed the permissions promt was open, but I hadn't been taken to it, nor had I been notified it had opened and was expecting a response.

So my suggestion / question is whether there is any way that the progress beeps can be started only after the security button has been confirmed, rather than as soon as the Update button has been pressed. If the updater hadn't spent 2 hours beeping, then I wouldn't have thought it was doing something (or attempting to do something) as part of the update process.

The moment I found the security prompt and confirmed I wanted to go ahead with the installation, it completed within 30 seconds, as it usually does!

Just a thought :)

Giles

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