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A web dialog that isn't automatically read by NVDA


Devin Prater
 

Hi all. I can't give the specific page, and can't find the HTML or JavaScript source for this dialog, but I've found a dialog on the web that is not read automatically by NVDA. This problem is in Google Chrome, but is not with Firefox. The text of the dialog is not read by NVDA, but the OK button is, and the OK and cancel buttons can be navigated to. The text can be reached with Object Navigation.
However, the text of the dialog is read automatically by Narrator in Google Chrome. It is not read automatically by JAWS, though. Any ideas on what's causing this, or any ways to fix? Or am I missing some Google Chrome addon or something?
Devin Prater
sent from Gmail.


 

Without a specific page for potential assistants to attempt to replicate the issue, and figure out a fix, it's almost impossible to propose one.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

     ~ Kelley Boorn

 


Sarah k Alawami
 

I've encountered  those on some pages. something like "blah blah blah dot com says ..." then that's it. maybe it's a chrome issue, I really don't know. It's frustrating though.

On 10/29/2020 9:50 AM, Devin Prater wrote:
Hi all. I can't give the specific page, and can't find the HTML or JavaScript source for this dialog, but I've found a dialog on the web that is not read automatically by NVDA. This problem is in Google Chrome, but is not with Firefox. The text of the dialog is not read by NVDA, but the OK button is, and the OK and cancel buttons can be navigated to. The text can be reached with Object Navigation.
However, the text of the dialog is read automatically by Narrator in Google Chrome. It is not read automatically by JAWS, though. Any ideas on what's causing this, or any ways to fix? Or am I missing some Google Chrome addon or something?
Devin Prater
sent from Gmail.


Luke Robinett
 

I run into this nearly all of the time with Web dialogs in chrome. It would probably be easier to give the developers an example of a time when it actually worked correctly, LOL.

On Oct 29, 2020, at 9:50 AM, Devin Prater <r.d.t.prater@...> wrote:


Hi all. I can't give the specific page, and can't find the HTML or JavaScript source for this dialog, but I've found a dialog on the web that is not read automatically by NVDA. This problem is in Google Chrome, but is not with Firefox. The text of the dialog is not read by NVDA, but the OK button is, and the OK and cancel buttons can be navigated to. The text can be reached with Object Navigation.
However, the text of the dialog is read automatically by Narrator in Google Chrome. It is not read automatically by JAWS, though. Any ideas on what's causing this, or any ways to fix? Or am I missing some Google Chrome addon or something?
Devin Prater
sent from Gmail.


Devin Prater
 

Using the popup dialog on this page:


It looks like this is a Chrome issue. Thanks all.
Devin Prater
sent from Gmail.


On Thu, Oct 29, 2020 at 12:42 PM Luke Robinett <blindgroupsluke@...> wrote:
I run into this nearly all of the time with Web dialogs in chrome. It would probably be easier to give the developers an example of a time when it actually worked correctly, LOL.

On Oct 29, 2020, at 9:50 AM, Devin Prater <r.d.t.prater@...> wrote:


Hi all. I can't give the specific page, and can't find the HTML or JavaScript source for this dialog, but I've found a dialog on the web that is not read automatically by NVDA. This problem is in Google Chrome, but is not with Firefox. The text of the dialog is not read by NVDA, but the OK button is, and the OK and cancel buttons can be navigated to. The text can be reached with Object Navigation.
However, the text of the dialog is read automatically by Narrator in Google Chrome. It is not read automatically by JAWS, though. Any ideas on what's causing this, or any ways to fix? Or am I missing some Google Chrome addon or something?
Devin Prater
sent from Gmail.


Ron Canazzi
 

Hi Group,

The referenced page reads well in Firefox.


On 10/29/2020 2:29 PM, Devin Prater wrote:
Using the popup dialog on this page:


It looks like this is a Chrome issue. Thanks all.
Devin Prater
sent from Gmail.


On Thu, Oct 29, 2020 at 12:42 PM Luke Robinett <blindgroupsluke@...> wrote:
I run into this nearly all of the time with Web dialogs in chrome. It would probably be easier to give the developers an example of a time when it actually worked correctly, LOL.

On Oct 29, 2020, at 9:50 AM, Devin Prater <r.d.t.prater@...> wrote:


Hi all. I can't give the specific page, and can't find the HTML or JavaScript source for this dialog, but I've found a dialog on the web that is not read automatically by NVDA. This problem is in Google Chrome, but is not with Firefox. The text of the dialog is not read by NVDA, but the OK button is, and the OK and cancel buttons can be navigated to. The text can be reached with Object Navigation.
However, the text of the dialog is read automatically by Narrator in Google Chrome. It is not read automatically by JAWS, though. Any ideas on what's causing this, or any ways to fix? Or am I missing some Google Chrome addon or something?
Devin Prater
sent from Gmail.

-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


 

On Thu, Oct 29, 2020 at 02:29 PM, Devin Prater wrote:
It looks like this is a Chrome issue.
-
Devin, the following is not meant to split-hairs, but to seek further clarification from you, as you can test this out quickly:  Is it a Chrome issue, or a Chromium issue?  This can be determined by testing the issue you're having with the page you referenced in new Edge, Brave, or any other Chromium-based browser.

Even though the Chromium-based browsers have way more in common than they do as differences, there can be weird things that really are specific to a single one or common to all of them, depending on the root cause.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

     ~ Kelley Boorn

 


Gene
 

I tested it in Brave and the dialog wasn't read. I had to use object navigation, I believe with Browse Mode off, though thisw was a few hours ago and I'm not sure now.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2020 4:32 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] A web dialog that isn't automatically read by NVDA

On Thu, Oct 29, 2020 at 02:29 PM, Devin Prater wrote:
It looks like this is a Chrome issue.-
Devin, the following is not meant to split-hairs, but to seek further clarification from you, as you can test this out quickly: Is it a Chrome issue, or a Chromium issue? This can be determined by testing the issue you're having with the page you referenced in new Edge, Brave, or any other Chromium-based browser.

Even though the Chromium-based browsers have way more in common than they do as differences, there can be weird things that really are specific to a single one or common to all of them, depending on the root cause.
--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

~ Kelley Boorn


 
Edited

This is a situation where all appearances are that it's on "the Chromium side" that the bug exists in that something that should be exposed to the screen reader in a standard way isn't being exposed.  This is particularly indicated by the fact that Firefox, which uses an entirely different rendering engine, doesn't have the problem, and you know the webpage code has to be the same.

Now, what I don't know is the best way to approach this.  I have no idea how to file a bug report/trouble ticket or similar in such a way that all Chromium-base browsers would receive the fix.  I believe most of them do use the updated Chromium core code as it gets released, but I'm not 100% certain of that.

There are times when it may make sense to file a bug report with your screen reader's developers (NVDA, in this case) since there tends to be a far more consistent and open communication channel between the organizations that build and maintain screen readers and the various web browser development communities than any end user has any ability to tap.  But I don't know if this is the case here.  I am going to flag Quentin Christensen on this message to have him weigh in.

This is a gray area as far as whose cage should be rattled initially by the user(s) having issues.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

     ~ Kelley Boorn

 


Quentin Christensen
 

Thanks Brian,

In this instance, and without having seen the page myself, several things stand out to me:

- Firstly, the problem is reproducible in Chrome but not Firefox.  Such a scenario is almost always caused by either the page creator not following standards, or the browser (Chrome in this case) not interpreting them correctly - usually the former unless you can find consistent issues across multiple sites.

- The issue is reproducible with both NVDA and Jaws.  Again, indicating an issue with the page (or Brower), OR that NVDA and Jaws have independently done something wrong in how this particular web content is interpreted.  The fact that Narrator can read it, indicates there might be other things we could try such as pulling information from the graphics card - which could be useful for working with an otherwise inaccessible program, although in the case of a specific page which isn't written correctly, it is likely better to approach the web page designer about the issue.

It's often difficult with an isolated case to determine where the issue lies.  In this case, I would hazard a guess that most probably the issue is in the individual page code.  Next most likely is Chrome not doing something correctly, and third inline is BOTH NVDA and Jaws not interpreting something correctly.

If it were something you could find examples of on numerous sites, I'd be inclined to lean towards a Chrome bug (or a poorly written standard which numerous developers have read one way and the Chrome developers have read a different way).

It's definitely something which can be hard to pin down though, so it's always worth asking about.

Quentin.

On Fri, Oct 30, 2020 at 10:35 AM Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
This is a situation where all appearances are that it's on "the Chromium side" that the bug exists in that something that should be exposed to the screen reader in a standard way isn't being exposed.  This is particularly indicated by the fact that Firefox, which uses an entirely different rendering engine, doesn't have the problem, and you know the webpage code has to be the same.

Now, what I don't know is the best way to approach this.  I have no idea how to file a bug report/trouble ticket or similar in such a way that all Chromium-base browsers would receive the fix.  I believe most of them do use the updated Chromium core code as it gets released, but I'm not 100% certain of that.

There are times when it may make sense to file a bug report with your screen reader's developers (NVDA, in this case) since there tends to be a far more consistent and open communication channel between the organizations that build and maintain screen readers and the various web browser development communities than any end user has any ability to tap.  But I don't know if this is the case here.  I am going to flag Quentin Christiansen on this message to have him weigh in.

This is a gray area as far as whose cage should be rattled initially by the user(s) having issues.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

     ~ Kelley Boorn

 



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Ron Canazzi
 

Hi Group,

Now this is weird. Since the new Edge is Chrome based, I thought I would try Edge on this web page.
It works just as well as Firefox. Go figure!




On 10/29/2020 7:35 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
This is a situation where all appearances are that it's on "the Chromium side" that the bug exists in that something that should be exposed to the screen reader in a standard way isn't being exposed.  This is particularly indicated by the fact that Firefox, which uses an entirely different rendering engine, doesn't have the problem, and you know the webpage code has to be the same.

Now, what I don't know is the best way to approach this.  I have no idea how to file a bug report/trouble ticket or similar in such a way that all Chromium-base browsers would receive the fix.  I believe most of them do use the updated Chromium core code as it gets released, but I'm not 100% certain of that.

There are times when it may make sense to file a bug report with your screen reader's developers (NVDA, in this case) since there tends to be a far more consistent and open communication channel between the organizations that build and maintain screen readers and the various web browser development communities than any end user has any ability to tap.  But I don't know if this is the case here.  I am going to flag Quentin Christiansen on this message to have him weigh in.

This is a gray area as far as whose cage should be rattled initially by the user(s) having issues.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

     ~ Kelley Boorn

 


-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"