About inserting two features into NVDA that cannot yet be used natively


Marcos Antonio Schllosser
 

Greetings!

I would like to mention the insertion of two features into NVDA that I use a lot but I have had a lot of problems because these Add-ons need to be constantly updated due to Python innovations.

1. Added the possibility for NVDA to pronounce copy, paste, cut and select when manipulating texts or applications. There are 2 Add-ons that were developed for this but it would be very interesting if these functions were available natively in NVDA so we don't need to install this Add-on.

2. Inserting one more option in Dictionary preferences. It would be the option of creating Dictionaries for specific applications. There is already an Add-on for this as well but it would be very interesting if this functionality were built in natively in NVDA.

Because the less Add-ons we install the better the performance of NVDA. And because I use it a lot, I can't give up these two features that I've been using for several years.

I appreciate if you can insert more of these two possibilities natively in NVDA.


Sky Mundell
 

As a NVDA user I support the idea of having them built into NVDA

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Marcos Antonio Schllosser
Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2021 1:24 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] About inserting two features into NVDA that cannot yet be used natively

Greetings!

I would like to mention the insertion of two features into NVDA that I use a lot but I have had a lot of problems because these Add-ons need to be constantly updated due to Python innovations.

1. Added the possibility for NVDA to pronounce copy, paste, cut and select when manipulating texts or applications. There are 2 Add-ons that were developed for this but it would be very interesting if these functions were available natively in NVDA so we don't need to install this Add-on.

2. Inserting one more option in Dictionary preferences. It would be the option of creating Dictionaries for specific applications. There is already an Add-on for this as well but it would be very interesting if this functionality were built in natively in NVDA.

Because the less Add-ons we install the better the performance of NVDA.
And because I use it a lot, I can't give up these two features that I've been using for several years.

I appreciate if you can insert more of these two possibilities natively in NVDA.


Kenny Cheung
 

I support this too.

On 11/14/21 17:08, Sky Mundell wrote:
As a NVDA user I support the idea of having them built into NVDA

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Marcos Antonio Schllosser
Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2021 1:24 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] About inserting two features into NVDA that cannot yet be used natively

Greetings!

I would like to mention the insertion of two features into NVDA that I use a lot but I have had a lot of problems because these Add-ons need to be constantly updated due to Python innovations.

1. Added the possibility for NVDA to pronounce copy, paste, cut and select when manipulating texts or applications. There are 2 Add-ons that were developed for this but it would be very interesting if these functions were available natively in NVDA so we don't need to install this Add-on.

2. Inserting one more option in Dictionary preferences. It would be the option of creating Dictionaries for specific applications. There is already an Add-on for this as well but it would be very interesting if this functionality were built in natively in NVDA.

Because the less Add-ons we install the better the performance of NVDA.
And because I use it a lot, I can't give up these two features that I've been using for several years.

I appreciate if you can insert more of these two possibilities natively in NVDA.











 

I would not want my reader to say coppied and pasted all the time though.

Maybe some voice prompts could be replaced with a chime.

Speaking about chimes, I know it was unofficially done in the past but I'd like soundschemes for different functions of nvda and not just start, error exit and forms.

Maybe more actions could have a sound.

Maybe there should be a way to have sound schemes.

Unlike the audiothemes addon, etc this would be different folders in nvda sounds folder that would allow you to put in different sounds for different events in either wav, mp3 or ogg vorbis.

The sounds could be any length but you couldn't have a huge sound, so maybe something of 1 minute maximum would be enough or 2 minutes if you wanted it but it wouldn't need to be any more than that and a second minimum or whatever.

You could have different packs and so on.

For me nvda is like a blind os, like the keynote and keysoft were except I can use most of my windows functions.

So I think that would be nice.

I don't think much would be needed to make that work.

On 15/11/2021 10:23 am, Marcos Antonio Schllosser wrote:
Greetings!

I would like to mention the insertion of two features into NVDA that I use a lot but I have had a lot of problems because these Add-ons need to be constantly updated due to Python innovations.

1. Added the possibility for NVDA to pronounce copy, paste, cut and select when manipulating texts or applications. There are 2 Add-ons that were developed for this but it would be very interesting if these functions were available natively in NVDA so we don't need to install this Add-on.

2. Inserting one more option in Dictionary preferences. It would be the option of creating Dictionaries for specific applications. There is already an Add-on for this as well but it would be very interesting if this functionality were built in natively in NVDA.

Because the less Add-ons we install the better the performance of NVDA. And because I use it a lot, I can't give up these two features that I've been using for several years.

I appreciate if you can insert more of these two possibilities natively in NVDA.





.


Sky Mundell
 

What was the Keynote laptop like? Sean? And is there an emulator where you can try one in action on your windows computer besides in Talking DOSBox?

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Shaun Everiss
Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2021 3:07 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] About inserting two features into NVDA that cannot yet be used natively

I would not want my reader to say coppied and pasted all the time though.

Maybe some voice prompts could be replaced with a chime.

Speaking about chimes, I know it was unofficially done in the past but I'd like soundschemes for different functions of nvda and not just start, error exit and forms.

Maybe more actions could have a sound.

Maybe there should be a way to have sound schemes.

Unlike the audiothemes addon, etc this would be different folders in nvda sounds folder that would allow you to put in different sounds for different events in either wav, mp3 or ogg vorbis.

The sounds could be any length but you couldn't have a huge sound, so maybe something of 1 minute maximum would be enough or 2 minutes if you wanted it but it wouldn't need to be any more than that and a second minimum or whatever.

You could have different packs and so on.

For me nvda is like a blind os, like the keynote and keysoft were except I can use most of my windows functions.

So I think that would be nice.

I don't think much would be needed to make that work.



On 15/11/2021 10:23 am, Marcos Antonio Schllosser wrote:
Greetings!

I would like to mention the insertion of two features into NVDA that I
use a lot but I have had a lot of problems because these Add-ons need
to be constantly updated due to Python innovations.

1. Added the possibility for NVDA to pronounce copy, paste, cut and
select when manipulating texts or applications. There are 2 Add-ons
that were developed for this but it would be very interesting if these
functions were available natively in NVDA so we don't need to install
this Add-on.

2. Inserting one more option in Dictionary preferences. It would be
the option of creating Dictionaries for specific applications. There
is already an Add-on for this as well but it would be very interesting
if this functionality were built in natively in NVDA.

Because the less Add-ons we install the better the performance of
NVDA. And because I use it a lot, I can't give up these two features
that I've been using for several years.

I appreciate if you can insert more of these two possibilities
natively in NVDA.






.


Sarah k Alawami
 

What proof is there that the more add ons that are running with nvda, the more resources it takes? Would this not be the case the more that is in core? I personally don't want nvda to become bloated, therefore I use the add ons to Taylor my experience to what I need it to be.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Marcos Antonio Schllosser
Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2021 1:24 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] About inserting two features into NVDA that cannot yet be used natively

Greetings!

I would like to mention the insertion of two features into NVDA that I use a lot but I have had a lot of problems because these Add-ons need to be constantly updated due to Python innovations.

1. Added the possibility for NVDA to pronounce copy, paste, cut and select when manipulating texts or applications. There are 2 Add-ons that were developed for this but it would be very interesting if these functions were available natively in NVDA so we don't need to install this Add-on.

2. Inserting one more option in Dictionary preferences. It would be the option of creating Dictionaries for specific applications. There is already an Add-on for this as well but it would be very interesting if this functionality were built in natively in NVDA.

Because the less Add-ons we install the better the performance of NVDA.
And because I use it a lot, I can't give up these two features that I've been using for several years.

I appreciate if you can insert more of these two possibilities natively in NVDA.


Gene
 

I think this is a non issue.  For one thing, noone is talking about ;adding twenty, thirty, or more functions.  Second, processors are so fast now that I don’t think adding a lot of functions would make any difference.  Also, I doubt that just adding functions would make a difference even if processors were much slower because I doubt that a lot of the functions would do anything except under very specific conditions, thus not taking any significant amount of computer power.
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2021 8:18 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] About inserting two features into NVDA that cannot yet be used natively
 
What proof is there that the more add ons that are running with nvda, the more resources it takes? Would this not be the case the more that is in core? I personally don't want nvda to become bloated, therefore I use the add ons to Taylor my experience to what I need it to be.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Marcos Antonio Schllosser
Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2021 1:24 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] About inserting two features into NVDA that cannot yet be used natively

Greetings!

I would like to mention the insertion of two features into NVDA that I use a lot but I have had a lot of problems because these Add-ons need to be constantly updated due to Python innovations.

1. Added the possibility for NVDA to pronounce copy, paste, cut and select when manipulating texts or applications. There are 2 Add-ons that were developed for this but it would be very interesting if these functions were available natively in NVDA so we don't need to install this Add-on.

2. Inserting one more option in Dictionary preferences. It would be the option of creating Dictionaries for specific applications. There is already an Add-on for this as well but it would be very interesting if this functionality were built in natively in NVDA.

Because the less Add-ons we install the better the performance of NVDA.
And because I use it a lot, I can't give up these two features that I've been using for several years.

I appreciate if you can insert more of these two possibilities natively in NVDA.












Mary Otten
 

Having no computer science background, I can't comment on this from that point of view. But I will say that as an end user who wants to get things done, does not want to be more involved with the computer than I am with actual productivity, I would like it if basic functionality that is used by most people could be part of the program, rather than having to depend on add-ons. Its a hastle. For those who do this full time, good for you. But for the rest of us who just want to get tasks done, forget it.


Mary


On 11/14/2021 6:44 PM, Gene wrote:
I think this is a non issue.  For one thing, noone is talking about ;adding twenty, thirty, or more functions.  Second, processors are so fast now that I don’t think adding a lot of functions would make any difference.  Also, I doubt that just adding functions would make a difference even if processors were much slower because I doubt that a lot of the functions would do anything except under very specific conditions, thus not taking any significant amount of computer power.
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2021 8:18 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] About inserting two features into NVDA that cannot yet be used natively
 
What proof is there that the more add ons that are running with nvda, the more resources it takes? Would this not be the case the more that is in core? I personally don't want nvda to become bloated, therefore I use the add ons to Taylor my experience to what I need it to be.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Marcos Antonio Schllosser
Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2021 1:24 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] About inserting two features into NVDA that cannot yet be used natively

Greetings!

I would like to mention the insertion of two features into NVDA that I use a lot but I have had a lot of problems because these Add-ons need to be constantly updated due to Python innovations.

1. Added the possibility for NVDA to pronounce copy, paste, cut and select when manipulating texts or applications. There are 2 Add-ons that were developed for this but it would be very interesting if these functions were available natively in NVDA so we don't need to install this Add-on.

2. Inserting one more option in Dictionary preferences. It would be the option of creating Dictionaries for specific applications. There is already an Add-on for this as well but it would be very interesting if this functionality were built in natively in NVDA.

Because the less Add-ons we install the better the performance of NVDA.
And because I use it a lot, I can't give up these two features that I've been using for several years.

I appreciate if you can insert more of these two possibilities natively in NVDA.












Michael Micallef at FITA
 

I agree 100%

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mary Otten via groups.io
Sent: Monday, 15 November 2021 03:47
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] About inserting two features into NVDA that cannot yet be used natively

 

CAUTION: This email originated from OUTSIDE the Government Email Infrastructure. DO NOT CLICK LINKS or OPEN attachments unless you recognise the sender and know the content is safe.

 

Having no computer science background, I can't comment on this from that point of view. But I will say that as an end user who wants to get things done, does not want to be more involved with the computer than I am with actual productivity, I would like it if basic functionality that is used by most people could be part of the program, rather than having to depend on add-ons. Its a hastle. For those who do this full time, good for you. But for the rest of us who just want to get tasks done, forget it.

 

Mary

 

On 11/14/2021 6:44 PM, Gene wrote:

I think this is a non issue.  For one thing, noone is talking about ;adding twenty, thirty, or more functions.  Second, processors are so fast now that I don’t think adding a lot of functions would make any difference.  Also, I doubt that just adding functions would make a difference even if processors were much slower because I doubt that a lot of the functions would do anything except under very specific conditions, thus not taking any significant amount of computer power.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2021 8:18 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] About inserting two features into NVDA that cannot yet be used natively

 

What proof is there that the more add ons that are running with nvda, the more resources it takes? Would this not be the case the more that is in core? I personally don't want nvda to become bloated, therefore I use the add ons to Taylor my experience to what I need it to be.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Marcos Antonio Schllosser
Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2021 1:24 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] About inserting two features into NVDA that cannot yet be used natively

Greetings!

I would like to mention the insertion of two features into NVDA that I use a lot but I have had a lot of problems because these Add-ons need to be constantly updated due to Python innovations.

1. Added the possibility for NVDA to pronounce copy, paste, cut and select when manipulating texts or applications. There are 2 Add-ons that were developed for this but it would be very interesting if these functions were available natively in NVDA so we don't need to install this Add-on.

2. Inserting one more option in Dictionary preferences. It would be the option of creating Dictionaries for specific applications. There is already an Add-on for this as well but it would be very interesting if this functionality were built in natively in NVDA.

Because the less Add-ons we install the better the performance of NVDA.
And because I use it a lot, I can't give up these two features that I've been using for several years.

I appreciate if you can insert more of these two possibilities natively in NVDA.











 

Hmph.
Wow, what was it like.
Thats actually a hard question.
So I will answer it with another question.
Have you ever accessed a library, used a symbian device, or an
accessible kiosk environment.
Have you used something like dolphin guide or the old now defunked
klango.net client?
There are no actual demos of the keynote synth itself.
But the keynote gold was a slightly more robotic 8bit version of what
espeak is now but in us at least for me.
If you use eloquence thats a little more like it almost but not quite.

So you had 2 bits of software.
1. mastertouch.
This was like nvda for dos in basic terms.
You could run just about every dos program you would like.
Games and graphical stuff excluded.
So you then had the shell, think of dos shell or the windows 3.11
shell with a few limits.
You could edit files in text, doodle with settings, transfer from
keynote to standard text format, view files, etc.
Later on there was a move for a little into windows ce which I never
saw and an upgraded dos version of the keysoft system but that never
got much traction.
Now, if you can get an hold of a keynote gold and can go to
www.batsupport.com/unsupported/dosbox I think I have a file on there
called oldgames.7z.
In there are all the old dos and keysoft disks I pulled off of my
dieing floppies with an old drive.
Those disks are trashed now.
The keynote I still have but its totally old and broken.
Later versions of keysoft on the keynote devices could play
interactive fiction games and access the net in a limited way.
To be honest I'd still like to get the last of the querty keynote
mpowers or apex units to see what I could do with them.
Just for kicks and nothing more.
Back in the day I had an old keynote gold sa but after my disks
started failing I gave up trying to bother.
However if you can get a few packs of 3.5 inch floppies and a drive or
a way to merge rawwrite created images for say boot, etc into 1 omega
large file you technically can install dos 6.22.
Failing that, you should be able to get dos 7 which I believe is
either opensource or well basically not an issue to get.
You may even be able to get drdos.
The os is the easy part.
And with oldgames.7z you will have wordperfect 5 and at least images
of keysoft and mastertouch 1x.
You won't have their tablet and you won't have anything like that.
Keysoft 1x was a really basic shell and I wish I could get 2x.
Technically though if you can get old keynote gold multimedia which
you can get from the same place, I believe keysoft 1 and 2 and
mastertouch are basically public domain.
Of course basically is the issue.
There was never a keynote gold usb created ever so you need to use serials.
With no ssil drivers in existance for anything anymore and even when
they did dolphin sam caused weird issues with the synths well good
luck.
There is no keynote gold drivers for anything, and keynote software
had drivers for themselves.
The touch tablet was itself a line by line refill tablet which never
went anywhere.

So, thats basically it.
There may be demos of keynote gold speech in either dectalk archive or
other places hanging round and I don't even think that things even
kept updated now as most of its creaters have moved on now.
There are ways to emulate old speech synths without using those now to.
Back in 1998 when I still could I tried to aquire an old system to
keep things running but never got far with it.
Saying that if you can obtain, a computer, and a serial card for a 9pin serial.
A copy of vmware, any version that can emulate dos, and get dos 7 on
it or windows 95 or 98 installed on it, or even dos 6.22 or 5.00.
Get my disks and with rawwrite and extract them, then install keysoft1
and mastertouch and have the synth usually in amercian language then
yeah you can do that.
I can tell you now you won't.
Bits still exist.
the actual disk images exist.
rawwritewin exists somewhere online.
Floppy disk drives still exist.
Dos still exists.
Serial cards still exist.
However unless you have a 386 or 486 capible cpu and it has to be
that at least a 386sx 4mb ram, etc, you won't be able to even get it
to work.
And even if you did, you need 3.5 inch disks.
No one has those.
You also need a keynote gold sa.
If you are lucky your local organisation may be throwing them out its
how I acquired mine when I tried.

The unit I used was a toshiba t1850 which was a 386sx 4mb ram a
60-80mb drive and and a 1.44mb 3.5 inch drive.
There was a serial and external numpad connecter.
It had a modem jack modified for the tablet and a power slab that took
a standard old style 2 prong radio cord.
It came with dos 5 but early keynotes came with their own dos system
called keynote commander 1.20 mostly on the old keynote pc+ and
earlier.

Before the toshiba 1850 all software etc was stored in a semi ram
memmory which was fine till the battery lost charge.
Then you had to reinstall everything so you had to carry the system
setup disks everywhere you went.

I never kept any recording of me meaningfully using the keynote.
I used it when at school and after that while at highschool playing
old text dos games.
I had it till 2008 when it finally died.
Never got the same feelings as I had when using it.
But that was it.
After switching to windows I quickly found out how slow it was.
No multiwindow support and while I still do 1 task at a time if I need
to open a multi windowed approach which I sometimes like doing well
you couldn't.
On the flip side, unlike windows if something went wrong you could do
interesting things to the system.
You could replace the system boot files of the os without a reformat.
You could reinstall the os like you would from setup without a reformat.
You could run without the startup files without a reformat.
If you mucked up you could recreate the startup files or fix them
yourself without a reformat.
There was no registry to screwup so you didn't need to reformat if it went bung.
If a program configuration file went and screwed up the system you
could bypass it usually and recreate it without a reformat.
There were no linked modules so if it stuffed you didn't need to reformat.
If the hardware screwed up then maybe.
If you really screwed up and had no speech then maybe you would have
to reinstall the os or something.
You could run a basic system on the screen reader setup disk which I often did.
You could get a basic accessible system on in seconds and could
restore even a full drive in well 4-5 hours.
If the system stuffed then it stuffed but well.
This is still my gripe with windows.
So much is in centralised locations.
This includes system files and configuration data.
Windows has become more and more harder to actually destroy in 90% of
all cases but is easy to dammage enough that it may not start.
To fix it isn't as easy as 1 2 3 kick!
It may be or it may not.
Its easier to just reinstall.
But you can't reinstall a section of the os.
You may install a program but well if its screwed then its screwed propperly.
Its faster to just say screw it all, and reformat rather than mucking
about trying to actually do anything.

On the other hand in dos everything needed a driver and everything
need to be indevidually configured and there were a lot of steps
depending so I guess thats the tradeoff and thats all it is.
Pluss you can't run windows shellless.

On 15/11/2021, Michael Micallef at FITA <michael.micallef@gov.mt> wrote:
I agree 100%

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mary Otten via
groups.io
Sent: Monday, 15 November 2021 03:47
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] About inserting two features into NVDA that cannot yet
be used natively

CAUTION: This email originated from OUTSIDE the Government Email
Infrastructure. DO NOT CLICK LINKS or OPEN attachments unless you recognise
the sender and know the content is safe.


Having no computer science background, I can't comment on this from that
point of view. But I will say that as an end user who wants to get things
done, does not want to be more involved with the computer than I am with
actual productivity, I would like it if basic functionality that is used by
most people could be part of the program, rather than having to depend on
add-ons. Its a hastle. For those who do this full time, good for you. But
for the rest of us who just want to get tasks done, forget it.



Mary


On 11/14/2021 6:44 PM, Gene wrote:
I think this is a non issue. For one thing, noone is talking about ;adding
twenty, thirty, or more functions. Second, processors are so fast now that
I don’t think adding a lot of functions would make any difference. Also, I
doubt that just adding functions would make a difference even if processors
were much slower because I doubt that a lot of the functions would do
anything except under very specific conditions, thus not taking any
significant amount of computer power.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Sarah k Alawami<mailto:marrie12@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2021 8:18 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] About inserting two features into NVDA that cannot yet
be used natively

What proof is there that the more add ons that are running with nvda, the
more resources it takes? Would this not be the case the more that is in
core? I personally don't want nvda to become bloated, therefore I use the
add ons to Taylor my experience to what I need it to be.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
<nvda@nvda.groups.io><mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Marcos
Antonio Schllosser
Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2021 1:24 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io<mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: [nvda] About inserting two features into NVDA that cannot yet be
used natively

Greetings!

I would like to mention the insertion of two features into NVDA that I use a
lot but I have had a lot of problems because these Add-ons need to be
constantly updated due to Python innovations.

1. Added the possibility for NVDA to pronounce copy, paste, cut and select
when manipulating texts or applications. There are 2 Add-ons that were
developed for this but it would be very interesting if these functions were
available natively in NVDA so we don't need to install this Add-on.

2. Inserting one more option in Dictionary preferences. It would be the
option of creating Dictionaries for specific applications. There is already
an Add-on for this as well but it would be very interesting if this
functionality were built in natively in NVDA.

Because the less Add-ons we install the better the performance of NVDA.
And because I use it a lot, I can't give up these two features that I've
been using for several years.

I appreciate if you can insert more of these two possibilities natively in
NVDA.

















 

You know you are correct but there are discussions from time to time on audiogames forum.

There are not many but a few that are not happy with the ever changing and breaking of the addon landscape.

I can see both sides and while I rarely speak out especially for the whiny entitled blind gits that frequent that place I do have to admit I do agree in part with the core of what they are saying.

While understanding we need to keep secure and updated, of late a lot of addons have been constantly broken and needing to be constantly updated.

It can be hard to track down all the devs and some of them may no longer be actually alive or in service.

So that means a feature dies with the next update.

It never used to be like this under python 2 so now there are users that complain.

Why I won't be like those louts its not because I disagree with what they are saying in the slightest, I know why, but  I do wander about the breakage rate on nvda.

And how often things need to break.

And how often those should effect the user.

Windows does this and at least 50% of the time its ok.

Of course when it breaks you do notice.

On 15/11/2021 3:18 pm, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
What proof is there that the more add ons that are running with nvda, the more resources it takes? Would this not be the case the more that is in core? I personally don't want nvda to become bloated, therefore I use the add ons to Taylor my experience to what I need it to be.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Marcos Antonio Schllosser
Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2021 1:24 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] About inserting two features into NVDA that cannot yet be used natively

Greetings!

I would like to mention the insertion of two features into NVDA that I use a lot but I have had a lot of problems because these Add-ons need to be constantly updated due to Python innovations.

1. Added the possibility for NVDA to pronounce copy, paste, cut and select when manipulating texts or applications. There are 2 Add-ons that were developed for this but it would be very interesting if these functions were available natively in NVDA so we don't need to install this Add-on.

2. Inserting one more option in Dictionary preferences. It would be the option of creating Dictionaries for specific applications. There is already an Add-on for this as well but it would be very interesting if this functionality were built in natively in NVDA.

Because the less Add-ons we install the better the performance of NVDA.
And because I use it a lot, I can't give up these two features that I've been using for several years.

I appreciate if you can insert more of these two possibilities natively in NVDA.











.


 

I also agree with this.

With a lot I do a lot less work has been taken over by automation.

And while I accept users need to keep things updated, nvda is not linux.

Users shouldn't have to chace down devs and muck about if all they are doing is using the software.

Now I will do this to be active but suppose you don't wana do that.

Suppose you just want to use the system.

I have several users that do stuff and it works.

If it doesn't after floundering round trying to fix their system often with disasterous results they bring whats left to me to fix.

When I fix it, I ask them what their original issue was and what they did to fix it.

Usually after researching and going on tangents they end up with a busted system.

I get it, reformat it and it works again.

The issue is usually simple and easy to fix or in fact I may know where to go or get something that works but that is because I am a geek.

I have mucked about with, broken, totally screwed up and reformatted my way in and out of trouble so many times I can more or less pick up what the intent usually is.

But a standard user just wants their stuff to run.

They don't care you need a password for it or an extra obscure key or another program module they want to use their software with minimal fuss and expect that it does.

I hhave often spent time dumbing down things so the user can use whatever only to find I have to change things on the fly.

A general non geek, that isn't like 99% of us on here or at least a large portion of us I am sure more more inteligent then myself I suspect.

Point is standard users want it to work and thats it.

I am not sying don't inovate but maybe where we can we need to have it so users can use their stuff and keep the breakage rate down.

I realise that may mean having extra non secure stuff about but eventually things will be updated most devs or others will be found and things will be updated and it will work.

On that note I wander if there is an more automated way to add stable versions of addons tothe update database on a more automated level.

And maybe a separate one for betas or something.

Its just a manual entry needs to be done once something is stable surely there is an easier way.



On 15/11/2021 4:45 pm, Michael Micallef at FITA wrote:

I agree 100%

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mary Otten via groups.io
Sent: Monday, 15 November 2021 03:47
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] About inserting two features into NVDA that cannot yet be used natively

 

CAUTION: This email originated from OUTSIDE the Government Email Infrastructure. DO NOT CLICK LINKS or OPEN attachments unless you recognise the sender and know the content is safe.

 

Having no computer science background, I can't comment on this from that point of view. But I will say that as an end user who wants to get things done, does not want to be more involved with the computer than I am with actual productivity, I would like it if basic functionality that is used by most people could be part of the program, rather than having to depend on add-ons. Its a hastle. For those who do this full time, good for you. But for the rest of us who just want to get tasks done, forget it.

 

Mary

 

On 11/14/2021 6:44 PM, Gene wrote:

I think this is a non issue.  For one thing, noone is talking about ;adding twenty, thirty, or more functions.  Second, processors are so fast now that I don’t think adding a lot of functions would make any difference.  Also, I doubt that just adding functions would make a difference even if processors were much slower because I doubt that a lot of the functions would do anything except under very specific conditions, thus not taking any significant amount of computer power.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2021 8:18 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] About inserting two features into NVDA that cannot yet be used natively

 

What proof is there that the more add ons that are running with nvda, the more resources it takes? Would this not be the case the more that is in core? I personally don't want nvda to become bloated, therefore I use the add ons to Taylor my experience to what I need it to be.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Marcos Antonio Schllosser
Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2021 1:24 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] About inserting two features into NVDA that cannot yet be used natively

Greetings!

I would like to mention the insertion of two features into NVDA that I use a lot but I have had a lot of problems because these Add-ons need to be constantly updated due to Python innovations.

1. Added the possibility for NVDA to pronounce copy, paste, cut and select when manipulating texts or applications. There are 2 Add-ons that were developed for this but it would be very interesting if these functions were available natively in NVDA so we don't need to install this Add-on.

2. Inserting one more option in Dictionary preferences. It would be the option of creating Dictionaries for specific applications. There is already an Add-on for this as well but it would be very interesting if this functionality were built in natively in NVDA.

Because the less Add-ons we install the better the performance of NVDA.
And because I use it a lot, I can't give up these two features that I've been using for several years.

I appreciate if you can insert more of these two possibilities natively in NVDA.











Quentin Christensen
 

I think it's important to keep things in context - NVDA has had TWO releases which broke add-on compatibility - NVDA 2019.3 and NVDA 2021.1.  We have said that if we need to make an add-on breaking release we will make it the first release of the year - but that also doesn't mean that we will break add-on compatibility every year.  We will avoid it where we can.

We are also quite open and give developers as much notice as we can about upcoming breakages, and that I think has also had the effect of some of that conversation filtering down here for instance and giving a perception of things constantly breaking.

The recent NVDA 2021.3 Beta 1 which broke add-ons was NOT at all related to this, but simply something which crept in and which was fixed in Beta 2 - if anything that highlights exactly why it is important to test beta releases and report issues with them - and still have a way back to a stable release in case things don't work - but that is a separate conversation.

We are aware of the impact that any breaking change has and are looking at ways of minimising this in future - and we always welcome constructive feedback.  We'd also encourage all developers to document projects, ensure they are updated on GitHub, and if you are planning to stop maintaining an add-on, then let the community know, so that someone else can pick up the project and continue it, or at least ensure it is updated to work with the latest version when changes necessitate it.

Quentin.

On Mon, Nov 15, 2021 at 4:24 PM Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@...> wrote:

I also agree with this.

With a lot I do a lot less work has been taken over by automation.

And while I accept users need to keep things updated, nvda is not linux.

Users shouldn't have to chace down devs and muck about if all they are doing is using the software.

Now I will do this to be active but suppose you don't wana do that.

Suppose you just want to use the system.

I have several users that do stuff and it works.

If it doesn't after floundering round trying to fix their system often with disasterous results they bring whats left to me to fix.

When I fix it, I ask them what their original issue was and what they did to fix it.

Usually after researching and going on tangents they end up with a busted system.

I get it, reformat it and it works again.

The issue is usually simple and easy to fix or in fact I may know where to go or get something that works but that is because I am a geek.

I have mucked about with, broken, totally screwed up and reformatted my way in and out of trouble so many times I can more or less pick up what the intent usually is.

But a standard user just wants their stuff to run.

They don't care you need a password for it or an extra obscure key or another program module they want to use their software with minimal fuss and expect that it does.

I hhave often spent time dumbing down things so the user can use whatever only to find I have to change things on the fly.

A general non geek, that isn't like 99% of us on here or at least a large portion of us I am sure more more inteligent then myself I suspect.

Point is standard users want it to work and thats it.

I am not sying don't inovate but maybe where we can we need to have it so users can use their stuff and keep the breakage rate down.

I realise that may mean having extra non secure stuff about but eventually things will be updated most devs or others will be found and things will be updated and it will work.

On that note I wander if there is an more automated way to add stable versions of addons tothe update database on a more automated level.

And maybe a separate one for betas or something.

Its just a manual entry needs to be done once something is stable surely there is an easier way.



On 15/11/2021 4:45 pm, Michael Micallef at FITA wrote:

I agree 100%

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mary Otten via groups.io
Sent: Monday, 15 November 2021 03:47
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] About inserting two features into NVDA that cannot yet be used natively

 

CAUTION: This email originated from OUTSIDE the Government Email Infrastructure. DO NOT CLICK LINKS or OPEN attachments unless you recognise the sender and know the content is safe.

 

Having no computer science background, I can't comment on this from that point of view. But I will say that as an end user who wants to get things done, does not want to be more involved with the computer than I am with actual productivity, I would like it if basic functionality that is used by most people could be part of the program, rather than having to depend on add-ons. Its a hastle. For those who do this full time, good for you. But for the rest of us who just want to get tasks done, forget it.

 

Mary

 

On 11/14/2021 6:44 PM, Gene wrote:

I think this is a non issue.  For one thing, noone is talking about ;adding twenty, thirty, or more functions.  Second, processors are so fast now that I don’t think adding a lot of functions would make any difference.  Also, I doubt that just adding functions would make a difference even if processors were much slower because I doubt that a lot of the functions would do anything except under very specific conditions, thus not taking any significant amount of computer power.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2021 8:18 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] About inserting two features into NVDA that cannot yet be used natively

 

What proof is there that the more add ons that are running with nvda, the more resources it takes? Would this not be the case the more that is in core? I personally don't want nvda to become bloated, therefore I use the add ons to Taylor my experience to what I need it to be.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Marcos Antonio Schllosser
Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2021 1:24 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] About inserting two features into NVDA that cannot yet be used natively

Greetings!

I would like to mention the insertion of two features into NVDA that I use a lot but I have had a lot of problems because these Add-ons need to be constantly updated due to Python innovations.

1. Added the possibility for NVDA to pronounce copy, paste, cut and select when manipulating texts or applications. There are 2 Add-ons that were developed for this but it would be very interesting if these functions were available natively in NVDA so we don't need to install this Add-on.

2. Inserting one more option in Dictionary preferences. It would be the option of creating Dictionaries for specific applications. There is already an Add-on for this as well but it would be very interesting if this functionality were built in natively in NVDA.

Because the less Add-ons we install the better the performance of NVDA.
And because I use it a lot, I can't give up these two features that I've been using for several years.

I appreciate if you can insert more of these two possibilities natively in NVDA.












--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


 

Thats good to know.
I know some users over react but yeah maybe I do to at times.

On 16/11/2021, Quentin Christensen <quentin@nvaccess.org> wrote:
I think it's important to keep things in context - NVDA has had TWO
releases which broke add-on compatibility - NVDA 2019.3 and NVDA 2021.1.
We have said that if we need to make an add-on breaking release we will
make it the first release of the year - but that also doesn't mean that we
will break add-on compatibility every year. We will avoid it where we can.

We are also quite open and give developers as much notice as we can about
upcoming breakages, and that I think has also had the effect of some of
that conversation filtering down here for instance and giving a perception
of things constantly breaking.

The recent NVDA 2021.3 Beta 1 which broke add-ons was NOT at all related to
this, but simply something which crept in and which was fixed in Beta 2 -
if anything that highlights exactly why it is important to test beta
releases and report issues with them - and still have a way back to a
stable release in case things don't work - but that is a separate
conversation.

We are aware of the impact that any breaking change has and are looking at
ways of minimising this in future - and we always welcome constructive
feedback. We'd also encourage all developers to document projects, ensure
they are updated on GitHub, and if you are planning to stop maintaining an
add-on, then let the community know, so that someone else can pick up the
project and continue it, or at least ensure it is updated to work with the
latest version when changes necessitate it.

Quentin.

On Mon, Nov 15, 2021 at 4:24 PM Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@gmail.com> wrote:

I also agree with this.

With a lot I do a lot less work has been taken over by automation.

And while I accept users need to keep things updated, nvda is not linux.

Users shouldn't have to chace down devs and muck about if all they are
doing is using the software.

Now I will do this to be active but suppose you don't wana do that.

Suppose you just want to use the system.

I have several users that do stuff and it works.

If it doesn't after floundering round trying to fix their system often
with disasterous results they bring whats left to me to fix.

When I fix it, I ask them what their original issue was and what they did
to fix it.

Usually after researching and going on tangents they end up with a busted
system.

I get it, reformat it and it works again.

The issue is usually simple and easy to fix or in fact I may know where
to
go or get something that works but that is because I am a geek.

I have mucked about with, broken, totally screwed up and reformatted my
way in and out of trouble so many times I can more or less pick up what
the
intent usually is.

But a standard user just wants their stuff to run.

They don't care you need a password for it or an extra obscure key or
another program module they want to use their software with minimal fuss
and expect that it does.

I hhave often spent time dumbing down things so the user can use whatever
only to find I have to change things on the fly.

A general non geek, that isn't like 99% of us on here or at least a large
portion of us I am sure more more inteligent then myself I suspect.

Point is standard users want it to work and thats it.

I am not sying don't inovate but maybe where we can we need to have it so
users can use their stuff and keep the breakage rate down.

I realise that may mean having extra non secure stuff about but
eventually
things will be updated most devs or others will be found and things will
be
updated and it will work.

On that note I wander if there is an more automated way to add stable
versions of addons tothe update database on a more automated level.

And maybe a separate one for betas or something.

Its just a manual entry needs to be done once something is stable surely
there is an easier way.



On 15/11/2021 4:45 pm, Michael Micallef at FITA wrote:

I agree 100%



*From:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*On
Behalf Of *Mary Otten via groups.io
*Sent:* Monday, 15 November 2021 03:47
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] About inserting two features into NVDA that cannot
yet be used natively



CAUTION: This email originated from OUTSIDE the Government Email
Infrastructure. DO NOT CLICK LINKS or OPEN attachments unless you
recognise
the sender and know the content is safe.



Having no computer science background, I can't comment on this from that
point of view. But I will say that as an end user who wants to get things
done, does not want to be more involved with the computer than I am with
actual productivity, I would like it if basic functionality that is used
by
most people could be part of the program, rather than having to depend on
add-ons. Its a hastle. For those who do this full time, good for you. But
for the rest of us who just want to get tasks done, forget it.



Mary



On 11/14/2021 6:44 PM, Gene wrote:

I think this is a non issue. For one thing, noone is talking about
;adding twenty, thirty, or more functions. Second, processors are so
fast
now that I don’t think adding a lot of functions would make any
difference. Also, I doubt that just adding functions would make a
difference even if processors were much slower because I doubt that a lot
of the functions would do anything except under very specific conditions,
thus not taking any significant amount of computer power.



Gene

-----Original Message-----

*From:* Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@gmail.com>

*Sent:* Sunday, November 14, 2021 8:18 PM

*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io

*Subject:* Re: [nvda] About inserting two features into NVDA that cannot
yet be used natively



What proof is there that the more add ons that are running with nvda, the
more resources it takes? Would this not be the case the more that is in
core? I personally don't want nvda to become bloated, therefore I use the
add ons to Taylor my experience to what I need it to be.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On
Behalf Of Marcos Antonio Schllosser
Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2021 1:24 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] About inserting two features into NVDA that cannot yet be
used natively

Greetings!

I would like to mention the insertion of two features into NVDA that I
use
a lot but I have had a lot of problems because these Add-ons need to be
constantly updated due to Python innovations.

1. Added the possibility for NVDA to pronounce copy, paste, cut and
select
when manipulating texts or applications. There are 2 Add-ons that were
developed for this but it would be very interesting if these functions
were
available natively in NVDA so we don't need to install this Add-on.

2. Inserting one more option in Dictionary preferences. It would be the
option of creating Dictionaries for specific applications. There is
already
an Add-on for this as well but it would be very interesting if this
functionality were built in natively in NVDA.

Because the less Add-ons we install the better the performance of NVDA.
And because I use it a lot, I can't give up these two features that I've
been using for several years.

I appreciate if you can insert more of these two possibilities natively
in
NVDA.












--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Web: www.nvaccess.org
Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/
User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess <https://twitter.com/NVAccess>