Access to Windows 10 Games: Suggestion for compatibility update or add-on for NVDA


Iris Finn
 

Hi all.
As I am new to this list, I'm still getting my head around the rules. I'm hoping that what I'm about to post complies here. Any road, I recently found out that it is possible for a screen reader to access the games that come with Windows 10, however, I haven't been able to get them to work with NVDA. Only in the last few days have I learned about there being add-ons. In saying that, is there an add-on that would make these games accessible with NVDA? If not, would it be possible to include said compatibility in a future update?
Cheers and warm regards
Iris.


 

Hi Iris,

Which Windows 10 games are you talking about?

Cheers,

Joseph


Iris Finn
 

My apologies! I'm talking about the Microsoft ones -- Mahjong, Tripeaks, Pyramid -- the Microsoft Solitaire Collection, in short!


On 18 Aug 2022, at 3:18 am, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:



Hi Iris,

Which Windows 10 games are you talking about?

Cheers,

Joseph


 

Hi,

Ah, Solitaire Collection... Until a few weeks ago an add-on was indeed required to play Solitaire Collection games effectively. This is no longer the case as accessibility has greatly improved. In fact, you'll see an announcement about Solitaire Collection and an add-on called Windows App Essentials soon - in short, the upcoming version of this add-on will "drop" support for Solitaire Collection games due to improved accessibility.

Cheers,

Joseph


David Mehler
 

Hello,


Does anyone have a podcast for playing windows games? I'm always on
the lookout for accessible games.

Thanks.
Dave.

On 8/18/22, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:
Hi,

Ah, Solitaire Collection... Until a few weeks ago an add-on was indeed
required to play Solitaire Collection games effectively. This is no longer
the case as accessibility has greatly improved. In fact, you'll see an
announcement about Solitaire Collection and an add-on called Windows App
Essentials soon - in short, the upcoming version of this add-on will "drop"
support for Solitaire Collection games due to improved accessibility.

Cheers,

Joseph






Guy Schlosser
 

I wish there was a way to Play some of the past audio games. Troopanum 2 anyone?

JAWS Certified, 2021, https://www.freedomscientific.com/Training/Certification

On Aug 18, 2022, at 11:58 PM, David Mehler <dave.mehler@...> wrote:

Hello,


Does anyone have a podcast for playing windows games? I'm always on
the lookout for accessible games.

Thanks.
Dave.


On 8/18/22, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:
Hi,

Ah, Solitaire Collection... Until a few weeks ago an add-on was indeed
required to play Solitaire Collection games effectively. This is no longer
the case as accessibility has greatly improved. In fact, you'll see an
announcement about Solitaire Collection and an add-on called Windows App
Essentials soon - in short, the upcoming version of this add-on will "drop"
support for Solitaire Collection games due to improved accessibility.

Cheers,

Joseph









Iris Finn
 

If only I'd known about this add-on earlier! Damn! Okay, so what would I have to do to be able to play them now then?
 from my iPhone

On 19 Aug 2022, at 1:54 pm, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:



Hi,

Ah, Solitaire Collection... Until a few weeks ago an add-on was indeed required to play Solitaire Collection games effectively. This is no longer the case as accessibility has greatly improved. In fact, you'll see an announcement about Solitaire Collection and an add-on called Windows App Essentials soon - in short, the upcoming version of this add-on will "drop" support for Solitaire Collection games due to improved accessibility.

Cheers,

Joseph


 

Hi,

For Solitaire Collection, really nothing - as in you don't need an add-on to play them as NVDA will read card labels and card decks.

As for other games, depends on willingness from game developers to learn about needs of screen reader users.

Cheers,

Joseph


Iris Finn
 

So does that mean if I open the app, NVDA will just read everything right off the bat now? If that's the case, t'd be the best news I've heard in a while! And by the way, thanks so much, Joseph! You've been most helpful! I never thought I'd be able to get much info on this subject!
Warmest regards
Iris!


On 19 Aug 2022, at 11:01 pm, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:



Hi,

For Solitaire Collection, really nothing - as in you don't need an add-on to play them as NVDA will read card labels and card decks.

As for other games, depends on willingness from game developers to learn about needs of screen reader users.

Cheers,

Joseph


 

Hi Iris, You're welcome.

Yes, it wasn't until recently that Microsoft made improvements to Solitaire Collection in terms of accessibility. Back in say, 2015 (when Windows 10 made its debut), cards and card decks were not labeled properly; rather, they were labeled using a UIA (UI Automation) facility that I haven't even thought of, something Narrator did support then (that facility was called "localized control type", a text representing how screen readers should report what the control is to users but localized for various languages; in Solitaire Collection, cards and card decks were "shown" (presented to screen readers) as an unknown control with the actual card suit and rank seen as a distinct control type, localized to various languages, including, surprisingly enough, United States English; how this is even possible is way beyond the scope of this forum as it touches multilingual user interface). This changed a few weeks ago with the release of Solitaire Collection 4.13, with cards and card decks having actual labels in a form that NVDA can better understand (technical: UIA name property; the internals of this is again beyond the scope of this forum as we need to go into geeky side of UIA support from NVDA).

Although I don't have extensive knowledge of parts of UI Automation and deeper parts of NVDA as several members here, you can count me in as a resident NVDA developer (or used to be as my immediate occupation is a university instructor and a graduate student). And no, my contributions are not as widely applied as say, Tyler Spivey's.

Cheers,

Joseph


Iris Finn
 

Sounds incredibly complicated! I hate to say this, but now I have another problem! I've been trying it out on my partner's computer and it worked for a while, but while playing Pyramid, I needed to bring up a new deal. Neither Enter nor Space would work to do this, then, subsequently, NVDA stopped reading any card buttons with arrows at all. Could this be a setting within NVDA that needs to change, or a bug within the game app -- which, I know is outside of the scope of this list. I just thought the NVDA part would be worth asking.


On 20 Aug 2022, at 3:09 am, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:



Hi Iris, You're welcome.

Yes, it wasn't until recently that Microsoft made improvements to Solitaire Collection in terms of accessibility. Back in say, 2015 (when Windows 10 made its debut), cards and card decks were not labeled properly; rather, they were labeled using a UIA (UI Automation) facility that I haven't even thought of, something Narrator did support then (that facility was called "localized control type", a text representing how screen readers should report what the control is to users but localized for various languages; in Solitaire Collection, cards and card decks were "shown" (presented to screen readers) as an unknown control with the actual card suit and rank seen as a distinct control type, localized to various languages, including, surprisingly enough, United States English; how this is even possible is way beyond the scope of this forum as it touches multilingual user interface). This changed a few weeks ago with the release of Solitaire Collection 4.13, with cards and card decks having actual labels in a form that NVDA can better understand (technical: UIA name property; the internals of this is again beyond the scope of this forum as we need to go into geeky side of UIA support from NVDA).

Although I don't have extensive knowledge of parts of UI Automation and deeper parts of NVDA as several members here, you can count me in as a resident NVDA developer (or used to be as my immediate occupation is a university instructor and a graduate student). And no, my contributions are not as widely applied as say, Tyler Spivey's.

Cheers,

Joseph


David Mehler
 

Hello,

Trying to keep this somewhat NVDA-focussed does anyone have any audio
tutorials/walkthroughs of NVDA and win10 gamesplay? This is I think
something that would be good to have since IMO I do not believe that
win10 games being accessible is widely known, speaking for myself I
hadn't even considered the possibility and didn't know before today.
Thanks.
Dave.

On 8/19/22, Iris Finn <mixdose@...> wrote:
Sounds incredibly complicated! I hate to say this, but now I have another
problem! I've been trying it out on my partner's computer and it worked for
a while, but while playing Pyramid, I needed to bring up a new deal. Neither
Enter nor Space would work to do this, then, subsequently, NVDA stopped
reading any card buttons with arrows at all. Could this be a setting within
NVDA that needs to change, or a bug within the game app -- which, I know is
outside of the scope of this list. I just thought the NVDA part would be
worth asking.
On 20 Aug 2022, at 3:09 am, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:


Hi Iris, You're welcome.

Yes, it wasn't until recently that Microsoft made improvements to
Solitaire Collection in terms of accessibility. Back in say, 2015 (when
Windows 10 made its debut), cards and card decks were not labeled
properly; rather, they were labeled using a UIA (UI Automation) facility
that I haven't even thought of, something Narrator did support then (that
facility was called "localized control type", a text representing how
screen readers should report what the control is to users but localized
for various languages; in Solitaire Collection, cards and card decks were
"shown" (presented to screen readers) as an unknown control with the
actual card suit and rank seen as a distinct control type, localized to
various languages, including, surprisingly enough, United States English;
how this is even possible is way beyond the scope of this forum as it
touches multilingual user interface). This changed a few weeks ago with
the release of Solitaire Collection 4.13, with cards and card decks having
actual labels in a form that NVDA can better understand (technical: UIA
name property; the internals of this is again beyond the scope of this
forum as we need to go into geeky side of UIA support from NVDA).

Although I don't have extensive knowledge of parts of UI Automation and
deeper parts of NVDA as several members here, you can count me in as a
resident NVDA developer (or used to be as my immediate occupation is a
university instructor and a graduate student). And no, my contributions
are not as widely applied as say, Tyler Spivey's.

Cheers,

Joseph






 

Hi,

It might be possible that Solitaire Collection might be showing you game hints. Try pressing Escape and see if you can navigate around the game afterwards.

As for Windows 10 games tutorials, perhaps we need to ask someone to produce some as it can benefit many screen reader users (other screen reader users, too I imagine).

Cheers,

Joseph


Iris Finn
 

Cheers! I've found that I can press tab a few times until one of the cards is spoken and therefore must be highlighted! And one more question: I've found that there are a few more aspects of the app that NVDA won't read, such as day selection in the Calendar Tab and high scores, bonuses, achievements Etc. Can any light be shed on this? I know there was an NVDA update recently and I've done that. This might also not sound like an NVDA question, but I guess I'm just wondering whether there were any other tips and tricks other people were using or that could be suggested!
Iris

On 20 Aug 2022, at 3:32 pm, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:



Hi,

It might be possible that Solitaire Collection might be showing you game hints. Try pressing Escape and see if you can navigate around the game afterwards.

As for Windows 10 games tutorials, perhaps we need to ask someone to produce some as it can benefit many screen reader users (other screen reader users, too I imagine).

Cheers,

Joseph


 

Hi,

It might be possible that achievements and calendar information is presented in a way that cannot be navigated or spoken when system focus moves. This can be tested if using Narrator and see if it announces things, and if yes, it might be time to reintroduce Solitaire app support in Windows App Essentials (too late for upcoming 22.09 release and likely not until late November; need to earn points (grades) before advancing to the next level).

As for tips and tricks, it depends on what you want to do with or without a specific app in mind, something we might as well discuss on a dedicated thread.

Cheers,

Joseph


farhan israk
 

Hy,
Most windows games such as chess, hard, purble place are accessible with nvda. I have been playing purble place matching games since windows 7. Now, I use Windows 10. Although it does not come with windows 10, it is possible to install them. By the way, what about Microsoft flight simulator? Is it accessible with nvda?

On Fri, Aug 26, 2022 at 10:07 PM Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:

Hi,

It might be possible that achievements and calendar information is presented in a way that cannot be navigated or spoken when system focus moves. This can be tested if using Narrator and see if it announces things, and if yes, it might be time to reintroduce Solitaire app support in Windows App Essentials (too late for upcoming 22.09 release and likely not until late November; need to earn points (grades) before advancing to the next level).

As for tips and tricks, it depends on what you want to do with or without a specific app in mind, something we might as well discuss on a dedicated thread.

Cheers,

Joseph


Iris Finn
 

Hi again!
It seems as though accessibility for these games is not quite right with NVDA: there are still some aspects, such as the daily challenge calendar that are hard to get to and are not read out. They were partly read out before the update. Has support for the App Essentials add-on finished for the games and if so, could this be improved in a future NVDA update?
Cheers and warm regards
Iris.

On 18 Aug 2022, at 2:09 am, Iris Finn via groups.io <mixdose@...> wrote:

Hi all.
As I am new to this list, I'm still getting my head around the rules. I'm hoping that what I'm about to post complies here. Any road, I recently found out that it is possible for a screen reader to access the games that come with Windows 10, however, I haven't been able to get them to work with NVDA. Only in the last few days have I learned about there being add-ons. In saying that, is there an add-on that would make these games accessible with NVDA? If not, would it be possible to include said compatibility in a future update?
Cheers and warm regards
Iris.





Josh Kennedy
 

I think microsoft flight simulator may be partially accessible with a paid addon called, its your plane or something like that. 


jamie coady
 

I think so but I think you have to buy a few addons to make it run one is called first officer and its your plane and something else. Was told all and all it was something like $200. No doubt someonw will correct me if I am wrong lol!

 

The only cheaper one I know of is eurofly but it is not the same. Wish there was more ore just more accessible sims lol!

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

From: Josh Kennedy
Sent: 05 September 2022 15:01
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Access to Windows 10 Games: Suggestion for compatibility update or add-on for NVDA

 

I think microsoft flight simulator may be partially accessible with a paid addon called, its your plane or something like that. 

 


 

Hi,

If they are read using Narrator, chances are that I might pick up Solitaire Collection again but that's unlikely for several reasons, one of them being school (it's graduate school application season for some of us). I think it would be better to send feedback directly to Microsoft as it is their game after all rather than taking care of it from NVDA as feedback to the game maker can help users of many technologies in the long term (no, I'm not saying this to imply that I'm lazy; it is so that folks need to recognize the harm done when things are not designed with impact on disability in mind; will talk about connection between source code and advocacy when the opportunity presents itself as it can get really philosophical).

Cheers,

Joseph