Hi all,

I'm thinking of upgrading to Windows 10, probably during my summer holiday of this year, and I'm wondering, will Windows Defender be good enough? I have Sandboxie and VMware installed (anything I think is suspicious I either run them in Sandboxie or VMware). I'm giving Nod32 a particular attention as I do have access to a licensed copy through my university.

If Windows Defender is not good enough, is Nod32 (any version) accessible with NVDA? In terms of being able to read and properly interact with alert dialogs and settings windows.

Hi, Nut,

I'm using windows defender and it's working great for me.

Rosemarie

Hi all,

I'm thinking of upgrading to Windows 10, probably during my summer holiday of this year, and I'm wondering, will Windows Defender be good enough? I have Sandboxie and VMware installed (anything I think is suspicious I either run them in Sandboxie or VMware). I'm giving Nod32 a particular attention as I do have access to a licensed copy through my university.

If Windows Defender is not good enough, is Nod32 (any version) accessible with NVDA? In terms of being able to read and properly interact with alert dialogs and settings windows.

Well, all anti virus programs tend to have one weakness, even if that
is that you cannot actually use it with a screenreader or it slows down
stuff.

I have to say that msse/defender is maybe not as featured as many, but
unless you are the sort of person who goes recklessly clicking dodgy
links in phishing emails or web sites, thus far checks with other
products on my machines have not revealed anything very malicious. The
pundits always have their favourites, and certainly do not have the
added issues of accessibility, but we have to live in the world as it
is, as I'm constantly reminded, so compromise is often what one ends up
with.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene" <gsasner@ripco.com>
To: <nvda@groups.io>
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2016 5:42 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Antivirus


As has been repeatedly discussed here, it's not a question of how
accessible the program is. Many advisors say that it is better to use
something else because it isn't as good at detecting malware as they
think it should be.

It seems to me that this program is contraversial enough that when
people ask about it, those who discuss it should say that there is a
contraversy, and what it is. I believe that those considering using the
program should be encouraged to look into the contraversy.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Arlene
Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2016 9:52 PM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Antivirus


Yes, I hear it works well for 8 and 10.



From: Rosemarie Chavarria [mailto:knitqueen2007@gmail.com]
Sent: March-06-16 4:41 PM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Antivirus



Hi, Nut,

I'm using windows defender and it's working great for me.

Rosemarie




On 3/6/2016 3:39 AM, Supanut Leepaisomboon wrote:

Hi all,

I'm thinking of upgrading to Windows 10, probably during my summer
holiday of this year, and I'm wondering, will Windows Defender be good
enough? I have Sandboxie and VMware installed (anything I think is
suspicious I either run them in Sandboxie or VMware). I'm giving Nod32 a
particular attention as I do have access to a licensed copy through my
university.

If Windows Defender is not good enough, is Nod32 (any version)
accessible with NVDA? In terms of being able to read and properly
interact with alert dialogs and settings windows.

There are other e-mail programs with much better ratings that are reasonably accessible and don't slow things down. Knowledgeable people differ on whether Windows Defender is adequate and people should read about the subject. When Kim Komando recommends that people use something else and Ars Technica (spelling) does as well, that in my opinion, is cause for serious consideration.

With reasonable care, Windows Defender may be alright but it has poor detection rates compared with many programs.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Brian's Mail list account
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2016 2:12 AM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Antivirus


Well, all anti virus programs tend to have one weakness, even if that is
that you cannot actually use it with a screenreader or it slows down stuff.

I have to say that msse/defender is maybe not as featured as many, but
unless you are the sort of person who goes recklessly clicking dodgy links
in phishing emails or web sites, thus far checks with other products on my
machines have not revealed anything very malicious. The pundits always have
their favourites, and certainly do not have the added issues of
accessibility, but we have to live in the world as it is, as I'm constantly
reminded, so compromise is often what one ends up with.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <gsasner@ripco.com>
To: <nvda@groups.io>
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2016 5:42 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Antivirus


As has been repeatedly discussed here, it's not a question of how accessible
the program is. Many advisors say that it is better to use something else
because it isn't as good at detecting malware as they think it should be.

It seems to me that this program is contraversial enough that when people
ask about it, those who discuss it should say that there is a contraversy,
and what it is. I believe that those considering using the program should
be encouraged to look into the contraversy.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Arlene
Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2016 9:52 PM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Antivirus


Yes, I hear it works well for 8 and 10.



From: Rosemarie Chavarria [mailto:knitqueen2007@gmail.com]
Sent: March-06-16 4:41 PM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Antivirus



Hi, Nut,

I'm using windows defender and it's working great for me.

Rosemarie




On 3/6/2016 3:39 AM, Supanut Leepaisomboon wrote:

Hi all,

I'm thinking of upgrading to Windows 10, probably during my summer holiday
of this year, and I'm wondering, will Windows Defender be good enough? I
have Sandboxie and VMware installed (anything I think is suspicious I either
run them in Sandboxie or VMware). I'm giving Nod32 a particular attention as
I do have access to a licensed copy through my university.

If Windows Defender is not good enough, is Nod32 (any version) accessible
with NVDA? In terms of being able to read and properly interact with alert
dialogs and settings windows.

I am using sophus and after a bit of a shaky start I now have it on 3 of
my many computers and it is Ok seems to be fully accessible. I admit I
have not looked around to see what the ratings are like but I might now
that I have thought about it.

On 07/03/2016 12:11, Gene wrote:

There are other e-mail programs with much better ratings that are
reasonably accessible and don't slow things down. Knowledgeable
people differ on whether Windows Defender is adequate and people
should read about the subject. When Kim Komando recommends that
people use something else and Ars Technica (spelling) does as well,
that in my opinion, is cause for serious consideration.

With reasonable care, Windows Defender may be alright but it has poor
detection rates compared with many programs.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Brian's Mail list account
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2016 2:12 AM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Antivirus


Well, all anti virus programs tend to have one weakness, even if that is
that you cannot actually use it with a screenreader or it slows down
stuff.

I have to say that msse/defender is maybe not as featured as many, but
unless you are the sort of person who goes recklessly clicking dodgy
links
in phishing emails or web sites, thus far checks with other products
on my
machines have not revealed anything very malicious. The pundits always
have
their favourites, and certainly do not have the added issues of
accessibility, but we have to live in the world as it is, as I'm
constantly
reminded, so compromise is often what one ends up with.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <gsasner@ripco.com>
To: <nvda@groups.io>
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2016 5:42 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Antivirus


As has been repeatedly discussed here, it's not a question of how
accessible
the program is. Many advisors say that it is better to use something
else
because it isn't as good at detecting malware as they think it should be.

It seems to me that this program is contraversial enough that when people
ask about it, those who discuss it should say that there is a
contraversy,
and what it is. I believe that those considering using the program
should
be encouraged to look into the contraversy.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Arlene
Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2016 9:52 PM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Antivirus


Yes, I hear it works well for 8 and 10.



From: Rosemarie Chavarria [mailto:knitqueen2007@gmail.com]
Sent: March-06-16 4:41 PM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Antivirus



Hi, Nut,

I'm using windows defender and it's working great for me.

Rosemarie




On 3/6/2016 3:39 AM, Supanut Leepaisomboon wrote:

Hi all,

I'm thinking of upgrading to Windows 10, probably during my summer
holiday
of this year, and I'm wondering, will Windows Defender be good enough? I
have Sandboxie and VMware installed (anything I think is suspicious I
either
run them in Sandboxie or VMware). I'm giving Nod32 a particular
attention as
I do have access to a licensed copy through my university.

If Windows Defender is not good enough, is Nod32 (any version)
accessible
with NVDA? In terms of being able to read and properly interact with
alert
dialogs and settings windows.

The number of "pure" antivirus programs along with antivirus as a part of security suites has become ridiculously large.  You will also find, if you research ratings at length, that while there is a short list of 10 to 15 that consistently get top ratings that if you pay attention to how the ratings are performed (and that does vary) that it still throws into question whether you have a real answer to which program is best.

I have said before, and I will say again, that you should not be relying on antivirus programs to give you 100% protection from viruses as any new computer virus has the potential to make its way to your computer before it has been identified and the signatures for that virus get added to a given antivirus program's detection list.  The best defense is simply being careful about where you browse on the web and what you open in terms of e-mail attachments.  Never open messages that "seem fishy" to you based upon the subject not being in character for the person you've received it from or things coming in from an unknown recipient.

You can actually get a pretty decent idea about your browsing and e-mail hygiene based upon two things:

1. Have you ever been infected and, if so, how frequently?
2. Has your antivirus program ever reported an infection to you? [You could also check the log files regarding what, if anything, has been detected/quarantined.]

If you're never getting (or very, very seldom) getting infected and your existing antivirus isn't quarantining things on a frequent basis then your own behavior is already consistent with what's wise for avoiding infection.   If this is the case, pretty much all of the commercial antivirus programs, including Microsoft Security Essentials (for those still on Win7) or Windows Defender (Win8 and later), will prove to be more than adequate to give you the protection you need.

It's also wise to have an antimalware program (e.g., Malwarebytes) and an antispyware program (e.g., Spywareblaster or SuperAntiSpyware) since viruses, malware, and spyware are not the same thing and many antivirus programs don't look at anything but viruses and closely related attacks.

Another excellent program to have on your computer if you like to download software, even from reputable sources, to give it a try is Unchecky.  Pretty much all vendors are now getting into the loathsome practice of bundling, where they'll have things like toolbars, other programs, or the like bundled with the program that you actually want and if you are not careful to uncheck the checkboxes for things such as, "Install crazy toolbar as well," or, "Install free trial of premium version" [when what you really want and need is simply the free version of something], you end up with all sorts of crud on your computer that you really don't want.  I recently had to uninstall a lot of unwanted programs on a client's computer that got there because he had one of his children assist him and neither one of them were at all vigilant about the questions asked during installation and simply answered in the affirmative to all of them.  Unchecky will notify you about what it's unchecked and you have the option to recheck anything if that's what you want.  So far no one has told me there are any accessibility problems with Unchecky.

Brian

The number of "pure" antivirus programs along with antivirus as a part of security suites has become ridiculously large.  You will also find, if you research ratings at length, that while there is a short list of 10 to 15 that consistently get top ratings that if you pay attention to how the ratings are performed (and that does vary) that it still throws into question whether you have a real answer to which program is best.

I have said before, and I will say again, that you should not be relying on antivirus programs to give you 100% protection from viruses as any new computer virus has the potential to make its way to your computer before it has been identified and the signatures for that virus get added to a given antivirus program's detection list.  The best defense is simply being careful about where you browse on the web and what you open in terms of e-mail attachments.  Never open messages that "seem fishy" to you based upon the subject not being in character for the person you've received it from or things coming in from an unknown recipient.

You can actually get a pretty decent idea about your browsing and e-mail hygiene based upon two things:

1. Have you ever been infected and, if so, how frequently?
2. Has your antivirus program ever reported an infection to you? [You could also check the log files regarding what, if anything, has been detected/quarantined.]

If you're never getting (or very, very seldom) getting infected and your existing antivirus isn't quarantining things on a frequent basis then your own behavior is already consistent with what's wise for avoiding infection.   If this is the case, pretty much all of the commercial antivirus programs, including Microsoft Security Essentials (for those still on Win7) or Windows Defender (Win8 and later), will prove to be more than adequate to give you the protection you need.

It's also wise to have an antimalware program (e.g., Malwarebytes) and an antispyware program (e.g., Spywareblaster or SuperAntiSpyware) since viruses, malware, and spyware are not the same thing and many antivirus programs don't look at anything but viruses and closely related attacks.

Another excellent program to have on your computer if you like to download software, even from reputable sources, to give it a try is Unchecky.  Pretty much all vendors are now getting into the loathsome practice of bundling, where they'll have things like toolbars, other programs, or the like bundled with the program that you actually want and if you are not careful to uncheck the checkboxes for things such as, "Install crazy toolbar as well," or, "Install free trial of premium version" [when what you really want and need is simply the free version of something], you end up with all sorts of crud on your computer that you really don't want.  I recently had to uninstall a lot of unwanted programs on a client's computer that got there because he had one of his children assist him and neither one of them were at all vigilant about the questions asked during installation and simply answered in the affirmative to all of them.  Unchecky will notify you about what it's unchecked and you have the option to recheck anything if that's what you want.  So far no one has told me there are any accessibility problems with Unchecky.

Brian

The number of "pure" antivirus programs along with antivirus as a part of security suites has become ridiculously large.  You will also find, if you research ratings at length, that while there is a short list of 10 to 15 that consistently get top ratings that if you pay attention to how the ratings are performed (and that does vary) that it still throws into question whether you have a real answer to which program is best.

I have said before, and I will say again, that you should not be relying on antivirus programs to give you 100% protection from viruses as any new computer virus has the potential to make its way to your computer before it has been identified and the signatures for that virus get added to a given antivirus program's detection list.  The best defense is simply being careful about where you browse on the web and what you open in terms of e-mail attachments.  Never open messages that "seem fishy" to you based upon the subject not being in character for the person you've received it from or things coming in from an unknown recipient.

You can actually get a pretty decent idea about your browsing and e-mail hygiene based upon two things:

1. Have you ever been infected and, if so, how frequently?
2. Has your antivirus program ever reported an infection to you? [You could also check the log files regarding what, if anything, has been detected/quarantined.]

If you're never getting (or very, very seldom) getting infected and your existing antivirus isn't quarantining things on a frequent basis then your own behavior is already consistent with what's wise for avoiding infection.   If this is the case, pretty much all of the commercial antivirus programs, including Microsoft Security Essentials (for those still on Win7) or Windows Defender (Win8 and later), will prove to be more than adequate to give you the protection you need.

It's also wise to have an antimalware program (e.g., Malwarebytes) and an antispyware program (e.g., Spywareblaster or SuperAntiSpyware) since viruses, malware, and spyware are not the same thing and many antivirus programs don't look at anything but viruses and closely related attacks.

Another excellent program to have on your computer if you like to download software, even from reputable sources, to give it a try is Unchecky.  Pretty much all vendors are now getting into the loathsome practice of bundling, where they'll have things like toolbars, other programs, or the like bundled with the program that you actually want and if you are not careful to uncheck the checkboxes for things such as, "Install crazy toolbar as well," or, "Install free trial of premium version" [when what you really want and need is simply the free version of something], you end up with all sorts of crud on your computer that you really don't want.  I recently had to uninstall a lot of unwanted programs on a client's computer that got there because he had one of his children assist him and neither one of them were at all vigilant about the questions asked during installation and simply answered in the affirmative to all of them.  Unchecky will notify you about what it's unchecked and you have the option to recheck anything if that's what you want.  So far no one has told me there are any accessibility problems with Unchecky.

Brian

Hello,

I am writing this not from my Admin hat, although the way this thread
degenerates may or may not change that.

MSE is very poorly rated on many levels, and it is my belief that
telling a user that it is sufficient to run it along with safe computer
practices is just inaccurate. It is very possible and likely to
contract computer infections even if one practices all safe behavior. It
no longer just takes a user engaging in risky behaviors to get malware
on a machine, and moreover even if it did and this was the only way of
contracting malware, this would mean that your expectation is that a
human is 100% safe and will do the right thing 100% of the time, which
is wildly inaccurate in my opinion. And even if you disagree with what I
am stating, having this debate about whether MSE is sufficient or not
every single week won't help us get any closer to deciding whether a
user should use it. MSE is accessible and Windows Defender is included
in newer versions of Windows. For you, this may be a reason to use it
along with your safer practices of computing. I'm okay with that if your
decision is to do so, however MSE is very, very poorly rated on many
levels by a multitude of tests that I can link to if anybody is
interested, and from a security perspective, it is irresponsible to tell
a user that MSE is good enough if they stay safe.

Anyway, a good wiki article about tools that work with NVDA and a
campaign to work with security vendors on this accessibility would not
be a bad idea. I will list some tools that I know about that are accessible.

Eset Security Suite Version 8 (9 is not accessible, and the company is
aware and says they are working on a fix)
Vipre Security Suite
I believe some reported that AVG is somewhat accessible.
Also, I believe that someone reported that Kaspersky is accessible once
you get past the installer which is inaccessible.

I use Sophos Home Cloud Anti-virus. It is my favorite for many reasons.
It is free, it is put out by a company that primarily secures larger
companies, it is cloud-based and completely accessible, and it doesn't
pack in a bunch of other products in a security suite that I do not require.
Spybot S&D and Spyware Blaster seem to work pretty well. Malware Bytes
also works well. I use WinPatrol, and that adds an extra level of
security, although I am rethinking this as it seems to be redundant to UAC.
I'm sure others can list other accessible products. Unfortunately, I
wish that others would be more accessible, however they are not at this
time.

Thanks.

On 3/7/2016 4:08 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

The number of "pure" antivirus programs along with antivirus as a part
of security suites has become ridiculously large. You will also find,
if you research ratings at length, that while there is a short list of
10 to 15 that consistently get top ratings that if you pay attention
to how the ratings are performed (and that does vary) that it still
throws into question whether you have a real answer to which program
is best.

I have said before, and I will say again, that you should not be
relying on antivirus programs to give you 100% protection from viruses
as any new computer virus has the potential to make its way to your
computer before it has been identified and the signatures for that
virus get added to a given antivirus program's detection list. The
best defense is simply being careful about where you browse on the web
and what you open in terms of e-mail attachments. Never open messages
that "seem fishy" to you based upon the subject not being in character
for the person you've received it from or things coming in from an
unknown recipient.

You can actually get a pretty decent idea about your browsing and
e-mail hygiene based upon two things:

1. Have you ever been infected and, if so, how frequently?
2. Has your antivirus program ever reported an infection to you? [You
could also check the log files regarding what, if anything, has
been detected/quarantined.]

If you're never getting (or very, very seldom) getting infected and
your existing antivirus isn't quarantining things on a frequent basis
then your own behavior is already consistent with what's wise for
avoiding infection. If this is the case, pretty much all of the
commercial antivirus programs, including Microsoft Security Essentials
(for those still on Win7) or Windows Defender (Win8 and later), will
prove to be more than adequate to give you the protection you need.

It's also wise to have an antimalware program (e.g., Malwarebytes
<https://www.malwarebytes.org/>) and an antispyware program (e.g.,
Spywareblaster <https://www.brightfort.com/spywareblaster.html> or
SuperAntiSpyware <http://superantispyware.com/>) since viruses,
malware, and spyware are not the same thing and many antivirus
programs don't look at anything but viruses and closely related attacks.

Another excellent program to have on your computer if you like to
download software, even from reputable sources, to give it a try is
Unchecky <https://unchecky.com/>. Pretty much all vendors are now
getting into the loathsome practice of bundling, where they'll have
things like toolbars, other programs, or the like bundled with the
program that you actually want and if you are not careful to uncheck
the checkboxes for things such as, "Install crazy toolbar as well,"
or, "Install free trial of premium version" [when what you really want
and need is simply the free version of something], you end up with all
sorts of crud on your computer that you really don't want. I recently
had to uninstall a lot of unwanted programs on a client's computer
that got there because he had one of his children assist him and
neither one of them were at all vigilant about the questions asked
during installation and simply answered in the affirmative to all of
them. Unchecky will notify you about what it's unchecked and you have
the option to recheck anything if that's what you want. So far no one
has told me there are any accessibility problems with Unchecky.

Brian

I am using sophus and after a bit of a shaky start I now have it on 3 of
my many computers and it is Ok seems to be fully accessible. I admit I
have not looked around to see what the ratings are like but I might now
that I have thought about it.

On 07/03/2016 12:11, Gene wrote:

There are other e-mail programs with much better ratings that are
reasonably accessible and don't slow things down. Knowledgeable
people differ on whether Windows Defender is adequate and people
should read about the subject. When Kim Komando recommends that
people use something else and Ars Technica (spelling) does as well,
that in my opinion, is cause for serious consideration.

With reasonable care, Windows Defender may be alright but it has poor
detection rates compared with many programs.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Brian's Mail list account
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2016 2:12 AM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Antivirus


Well, all anti virus programs tend to have one weakness, even if that is
that you cannot actually use it with a screenreader or it slows down
stuff.

I have to say that msse/defender is maybe not as featured as many, but
unless you are the sort of person who goes recklessly clicking dodgy
links
in phishing emails or web sites, thus far checks with other products
on my
machines have not revealed anything very malicious. The pundits always
have
their favourites, and certainly do not have the added issues of
accessibility, but we have to live in the world as it is, as I'm
constantly
reminded, so compromise is often what one ends up with.
Brian

bglists@blueyonder.co.uk
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk, putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <gsasner@ripco.com>
To: <nvda@groups.io>
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2016 5:42 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Antivirus


As has been repeatedly discussed here, it's not a question of how
accessible
the program is. Many advisors say that it is better to use something
else
because it isn't as good at detecting malware as they think it should be.

It seems to me that this program is contraversial enough that when people
ask about it, those who discuss it should say that there is a
contraversy,
and what it is. I believe that those considering using the program
should
be encouraged to look into the contraversy.

Gene
----- Original Message -----

From: Arlene
Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2016 9:52 PM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Antivirus


Yes, I hear it works well for 8 and 10.



From: Rosemarie Chavarria [mailto:knitqueen2007@gmail.com]
Sent: March-06-16 4:41 PM
To: nvda@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Antivirus



Hi, Nut,

I'm using windows defender and it's working great for me.

Rosemarie




On 3/6/2016 3:39 AM, Supanut Leepaisomboon wrote:

Hi all,

I'm thinking of upgrading to Windows 10, probably during my summer
holiday
of this year, and I'm wondering, will Windows Defender be good enough? I
have Sandboxie and VMware installed (anything I think is suspicious I
either
run them in Sandboxie or VMware). I'm giving Nod32 a particular
attention as
I do have access to a licensed copy through my university.

If Windows Defender is not good enough, is Nod32 (any version)
accessible
with NVDA? In terms of being able to read and properly interact with
alert
dialogs and settings windows.