Topics

anyone willing to look into NVDA and Zara Radio?


Bob Cavanaugh
 

Hi all,
Can anyone look into NVDA with Zara Radio? They have a paid version
and a free version, which is the one I have. There are three things
I'd like taken a look at:
1. Apparently, there are buttons at the bottom of the window for
scheduling events, adding jingles, changing the playlist mode, and a
couple other things I can't remember at the moment, but there seems to
be no way to access them with conventional navigation methods. Can
anyone try to use object navigation to try and access these buttons
and then walk me through how to do it?
2. When playing and the Zara window has focus, NVDA speaks an endless
series of percentages. Can a change be made so that these aren't
spoken?
3. When working with the playlist, there are actually two lists,
neither of which are read by NVDA. I can see what is in them, but
using NVDA I don't know what they are. I can't remember what System
Access reads for the first one if it is empty, but if there are
elements in it and a length is available, it actually reads the
length. When tabbing, System Access also reads that the second list is
the upcoming events list. Can a change be made in NVDA so that it
reads these things?
Bob


Sarah k Alawami
 

Have you contacted the developer and shown them via video if possible what is and is not accessible? this would be a good start if you did not do this already.

--

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website.

Check out my adventures with a shadow machine.

to subscribe to the feed click here and you can also follow us on twitter

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on twitch. Feel free to give the channel a follow and see what is up there.

For stream archives, products you can buy and more visit my main lbry page and my tffp lbry page You will also be able to buy some of my products and eBooks there.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 24 Dec 2020, at 16:00, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:

Hi all,
Can anyone look into NVDA with Zara Radio? They have a paid version
and a free version, which is the one I have. There are three things
I'd like taken a look at:
1. Apparently, there are buttons at the bottom of the window for
scheduling events, adding jingles, changing the playlist mode, and a
couple other things I can't remember at the moment, but there seems to
be no way to access them with conventional navigation methods. Can
anyone try to use object navigation to try and access these buttons
and then walk me through how to do it?
2. When playing and the Zara window has focus, NVDA speaks an endless
series of percentages. Can a change be made so that these aren't
spoken?
3. When working with the playlist, there are actually two lists,
neither of which are read by NVDA. I can see what is in them, but
using NVDA I don't know what they are. I can't remember what System
Access reads for the first one if it is empty, but if there are
elements in it and a length is available, it actually reads the
length. When tabbing, System Access also reads that the second list is
the upcoming events list. Can a change be made in NVDA so that it
reads these things?
Bob


Bob Cavanaugh
 

I tried to contact them to ask a few questions as to how to do things
when I first installed the program, but I never heard back. Many of
the accessibility bugs I've found workarounds for, the event scheduler
is probably the biggest one there doesn't seem to be an accessible way
to access at the moment.

On 12/24/20, Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@gmail.com> wrote:
Have you contacted the developer and shown them via video if possible
what is and is not accessible? this would be a good start if you did not
do this already.

--

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our
[website.](http://www.tffppodcast.com)

Check out my [adventures with a shadow
machine.](http://tffppodcast.com/shadow)

to subscribe to the feed click [here](http://feeds.feedburner.com/tffp)
and you can also [follow us on twitter](http://twitter.com/tffppodcast)

Our [discord](http://discord.tffppodcast.com) is where you will know
when we go live on [twitch.](http://twitch.tv/ke7zum) Feel free to give
the channel a follow and see what is up there.

For stream archives, products you can buy and more visit [my main lbry
page](http://lbry.tv/@ke7zum) and my [tffp lbry
page](http://lbry.tv/@tffp) You will also be able to buy some of my
products and eBooks there.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go
[here](Http://patreon.com/tffppodcast)

On 24 Dec 2020, at 16:00, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:

Hi all,
Can anyone look into NVDA with Zara Radio? They have a paid version
and a free version, which is the one I have. There are three things
I'd like taken a look at:
1. Apparently, there are buttons at the bottom of the window for
scheduling events, adding jingles, changing the playlist mode, and a
couple other things I can't remember at the moment, but there seems to
be no way to access them with conventional navigation methods. Can
anyone try to use object navigation to try and access these buttons
and then walk me through how to do it?
2. When playing and the Zara window has focus, NVDA speaks an endless
series of percentages. Can a change be made so that these aren't
spoken?
3. When working with the playlist, there are actually two lists,
neither of which are read by NVDA. I can see what is in them, but
using NVDA I don't know what they are. I can't remember what System
Access reads for the first one if it is empty, but if there are
elements in it and a length is available, it actually reads the
length. When tabbing, System Access also reads that the second list is
the upcoming events list. Can a change be made in NVDA so that it
reads these things?
Bob







 

Hi all,
At least the interface looks promising (testing Zara Radio 1.6 free edition). The biggest issue might be that, despite being a program that uses a toolkit known for good interface accessibility, there's no label for controls and keyboard navigation is incomplete.
Technical: it uses wxWidgets, a toolkit that's known for great accessibility (wxWidgets is the same toolkit that powers NVDA's own graphical interface, so we already have proof of its potential). If keyboard accessibility and labels issues are solved, it can serve as a viable and low-cost alternative to StationPlaylist Studio.
For reference, here's how I tested Zara Radio:
1. Download Zara Radio from: https://www.zarastudio.es/download.php
2. Installed Zara Radio.
3. Once Zara Radio loads, I used Tab key to navigate around the interface.
4. I used object navigation (NvDA+Numpad arrows in desktop layout) to look at its interface, along with using screen review to look at its layout.
5. I opened Python Console to find out the window class name for the foreground object, and it turned up a common window class name used by wxWidgets applications. This is more than enough to tell me about the accessibility potential.
6. I then moved to both unlabeled lists and pressed NVDA+F1 to obtain developer info for these lists, and they are SysListView32 lists. Among other things, it will allow you to use table navigation commands to examine tracks and what not. This is the same approach used in StationPlaylist add-on, although in the case of SPL, I had to force NVDA to treat playlists as SysListView32 items in order to enable table navigation commands.
Bob indicates that he wrote to developers with no reply; or rather, I think folks won't respond until January. Come January, if Bob doesn’t get an answer from the developers, let us know so someone from the NVDA community can write to developers and copy NV Access in the process. If developers are willing to work with screen reader users, that's great, otherwise we can at least convince them about the viability of their software for blind broadcasters. Only if developers are unwilling to listen to screen reader users should the community consider writing an app module and package it as an add-on in order to highlight lack of accessibility (hopefully that can serve to persuade some developers to change their minds and collaborate with us). In other words, it isn't really NVDA's fault, but more towards the app that can see some improvements.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Cavanaugh
Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2020 5:29 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] anyone willing to look into NVDA and Zara Radio?

I tried to contact them to ask a few questions as to how to do things when I first installed the program, but I never heard back. Many of the accessibility bugs I've found workarounds for, the event scheduler is probably the biggest one there doesn't seem to be an accessible way to access at the moment.

On 12/24/20, Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@gmail.com> wrote:
Have you contacted the developer and shown them via video if possible
what is and is not accessible? this would be a good start if you did
not do this already.

--

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our
[website.](http://www.tffppodcast.com)

Check out my [adventures with a shadow
machine.](http://tffppodcast.com/shadow)

to subscribe to the feed click
[here](http://feeds.feedburner.com/tffp)
and you can also [follow us on
twitter](http://twitter.com/tffppodcast)

Our [discord](http://discord.tffppodcast.com) is where you will know
when we go live on [twitch.](http://twitch.tv/ke7zum) Feel free to
give the channel a follow and see what is up there.

For stream archives, products you can buy and more visit [my main lbry
page](http://lbry.tv/@ke7zum) and my [tffp lbry
page](http://lbry.tv/@tffp) You will also be able to buy some of my
products and eBooks there.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go
[here](Http://patreon.com/tffppodcast)

On 24 Dec 2020, at 16:00, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:

Hi all,
Can anyone look into NVDA with Zara Radio? They have a paid version
and a free version, which is the one I have. There are three things
I'd like taken a look at:
1. Apparently, there are buttons at the bottom of the window for
scheduling events, adding jingles, changing the playlist mode, and a
couple other things I can't remember at the moment, but there seems
to be no way to access them with conventional navigation methods. Can
anyone try to use object navigation to try and access these buttons
and then walk me through how to do it?
2. When playing and the Zara window has focus, NVDA speaks an endless
series of percentages. Can a change be made so that these aren't
spoken?
3. When working with the playlist, there are actually two lists,
neither of which are read by NVDA. I can see what is in them, but
using NVDA I don't know what they are. I can't remember what System
Access reads for the first one if it is empty, but if there are
elements in it and a length is available, it actually reads the
length. When tabbing, System Access also reads that the second list
is the upcoming events list. Can a change be made in NVDA so that it
reads these things?
Bob







Bob Cavanaugh
 

I can try to write them again, thank you for that detailed
explanation. I actually wrote the developers a month or more ago, so
this was plenty of time for them to respond. Even with the
accessibility issues, it's still a viable replacement for Station
Playlist. There are several things I can't do with Zara, but I've
found, sometimes by accident, workarounds for most as described below:
1. The default playlist mode is repeat, when most of the time I want
it in normal. This is easily dealt with by adding a stop command to
the end of the playlist.
2. Adding jingles, these can't be added to the jingles portion as
described in the manual, but what you could do is add that track to
the playlist, then making sure the playlist is stopped so it doesn't
play when you don't want it to, then pressing control+P when the item
is selected will effectively do the same thing as the jingles.
3. Using the event scheduler, this is the only thing I haven't been
able to find a viable workaround for, and if your station doesn't
require a timed ID at the top of the hour, it's not a huge deal.
Joseph, did you try playing audio to figure out what those percentages
it keeps speaking are and how to keep NVDA from endlessly speaking
them? That's the other big annoyance.

On 12/24/20, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi all,
At least the interface looks promising (testing Zara Radio 1.6 free
edition). The biggest issue might be that, despite being a program that uses
a toolkit known for good interface accessibility, there's no label for
controls and keyboard navigation is incomplete.
Technical: it uses wxWidgets, a toolkit that's known for great accessibility
(wxWidgets is the same toolkit that powers NVDA's own graphical interface,
so we already have proof of its potential). If keyboard accessibility and
labels issues are solved, it can serve as a viable and low-cost alternative
to StationPlaylist Studio.
For reference, here's how I tested Zara Radio:
1. Download Zara Radio from: https://www.zarastudio.es/download.php
2. Installed Zara Radio.
3. Once Zara Radio loads, I used Tab key to navigate around the interface.
4. I used object navigation (NvDA+Numpad arrows in desktop layout) to look
at its interface, along with using screen review to look at its layout.
5. I opened Python Console to find out the window class name for the
foreground object, and it turned up a common window class name used by
wxWidgets applications. This is more than enough to tell me about the
accessibility potential.
6. I then moved to both unlabeled lists and pressed NVDA+F1 to obtain
developer info for these lists, and they are SysListView32 lists. Among
other things, it will allow you to use table navigation commands to examine
tracks and what not. This is the same approach used in StationPlaylist
add-on, although in the case of SPL, I had to force NVDA to treat playlists
as SysListView32 items in order to enable table navigation commands.
Bob indicates that he wrote to developers with no reply; or rather, I think
folks won't respond until January. Come January, if Bob doesn’t get an
answer from the developers, let us know so someone from the NVDA community
can write to developers and copy NV Access in the process. If developers are
willing to work with screen reader users, that's great, otherwise we can at
least convince them about the viability of their software for blind
broadcasters. Only if developers are unwilling to listen to screen reader
users should the community consider writing an app module and package it as
an add-on in order to highlight lack of accessibility (hopefully that can
serve to persuade some developers to change their minds and collaborate with
us). In other words, it isn't really NVDA's fault, but more towards the app
that can see some improvements.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Cavanaugh
Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2020 5:29 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] anyone willing to look into NVDA and Zara Radio?

I tried to contact them to ask a few questions as to how to do things when I
first installed the program, but I never heard back. Many of the
accessibility bugs I've found workarounds for, the event scheduler is
probably the biggest one there doesn't seem to be an accessible way to
access at the moment.

On 12/24/20, Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@gmail.com> wrote:
Have you contacted the developer and shown them via video if possible
what is and is not accessible? this would be a good start if you did
not do this already.

--

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our
[website.](http://www.tffppodcast.com)

Check out my [adventures with a shadow
machine.](http://tffppodcast.com/shadow)

to subscribe to the feed click
[here](http://feeds.feedburner.com/tffp)
and you can also [follow us on
twitter](http://twitter.com/tffppodcast)

Our [discord](http://discord.tffppodcast.com) is where you will know
when we go live on [twitch.](http://twitch.tv/ke7zum) Feel free to
give the channel a follow and see what is up there.

For stream archives, products you can buy and more visit [my main lbry
page](http://lbry.tv/@ke7zum) and my [tffp lbry
page](http://lbry.tv/@tffp) You will also be able to buy some of my
products and eBooks there.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go
[here](Http://patreon.com/tffppodcast)

On 24 Dec 2020, at 16:00, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:

Hi all,
Can anyone look into NVDA with Zara Radio? They have a paid version
and a free version, which is the one I have. There are three things
I'd like taken a look at:
1. Apparently, there are buttons at the bottom of the window for
scheduling events, adding jingles, changing the playlist mode, and a
couple other things I can't remember at the moment, but there seems
to be no way to access them with conventional navigation methods. Can
anyone try to use object navigation to try and access these buttons
and then walk me through how to do it?
2. When playing and the Zara window has focus, NVDA speaks an endless
series of percentages. Can a change be made so that these aren't
spoken?
3. When working with the playlist, there are actually two lists,
neither of which are read by NVDA. I can see what is in them, but
using NVDA I don't know what they are. I can't remember what System
Access reads for the first one if it is empty, but if there are
elements in it and a length is available, it actually reads the
length. When tabbing, System Access also reads that the second list
is the upcoming events list. Can a change be made in NVDA so that it
reads these things?
Bob
















 

Hi,
If you hear percentage tones while a file is playing, chances are that it represents audio volume. At this stage, I won't worry about that until we hear from Zara developers.
Cheers,
Jsoeph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Cavanaugh
Sent: Friday, December 25, 2020 1:04 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] anyone willing to look into NVDA and Zara Radio?

I can try to write them again, thank you for that detailed explanation. I actually wrote the developers a month or more ago, so this was plenty of time for them to respond. Even with the accessibility issues, it's still a viable replacement for Station Playlist. There are several things I can't do with Zara, but I've found, sometimes by accident, workarounds for most as described below:
1. The default playlist mode is repeat, when most of the time I want it in normal. This is easily dealt with by adding a stop command to the end of the playlist.
2. Adding jingles, these can't be added to the jingles portion as described in the manual, but what you could do is add that track to the playlist, then making sure the playlist is stopped so it doesn't play when you don't want it to, then pressing control+P when the item is selected will effectively do the same thing as the jingles.
3. Using the event scheduler, this is the only thing I haven't been able to find a viable workaround for, and if your station doesn't require a timed ID at the top of the hour, it's not a huge deal.
Joseph, did you try playing audio to figure out what those percentages it keeps speaking are and how to keep NVDA from endlessly speaking them? That's the other big annoyance.

On 12/24/20, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi all,
At least the interface looks promising (testing Zara Radio 1.6 free
edition). The biggest issue might be that, despite being a program
that uses a toolkit known for good interface accessibility, there's no
label for controls and keyboard navigation is incomplete.
Technical: it uses wxWidgets, a toolkit that's known for great
accessibility (wxWidgets is the same toolkit that powers NVDA's own
graphical interface, so we already have proof of its potential). If
keyboard accessibility and labels issues are solved, it can serve as a
viable and low-cost alternative to StationPlaylist Studio.
For reference, here's how I tested Zara Radio:
1. Download Zara Radio from: https://www.zarastudio.es/download.php
2. Installed Zara Radio.
3. Once Zara Radio loads, I used Tab key to navigate around the interface.
4. I used object navigation (NvDA+Numpad arrows in desktop layout) to
look at its interface, along with using screen review to look at its layout.
5. I opened Python Console to find out the window class name for the
foreground object, and it turned up a common window class name used by
wxWidgets applications. This is more than enough to tell me about the
accessibility potential.
6. I then moved to both unlabeled lists and pressed NVDA+F1 to obtain
developer info for these lists, and they are SysListView32 lists.
Among other things, it will allow you to use table navigation commands
to examine tracks and what not. This is the same approach used in
StationPlaylist add-on, although in the case of SPL, I had to force
NVDA to treat playlists as SysListView32 items in order to enable table navigation commands.
Bob indicates that he wrote to developers with no reply; or rather, I
think folks won't respond until January. Come January, if Bob doesn’t
get an answer from the developers, let us know so someone from the
NVDA community can write to developers and copy NV Access in the
process. If developers are willing to work with screen reader users,
that's great, otherwise we can at least convince them about the
viability of their software for blind broadcasters. Only if developers
are unwilling to listen to screen reader users should the community
consider writing an app module and package it as an add-on in order to
highlight lack of accessibility (hopefully that can serve to persuade
some developers to change their minds and collaborate with us). In
other words, it isn't really NVDA's fault, but more towards the app that can see some improvements.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob
Cavanaugh
Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2020 5:29 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] anyone willing to look into NVDA and Zara Radio?

I tried to contact them to ask a few questions as to how to do things
when I first installed the program, but I never heard back. Many of
the accessibility bugs I've found workarounds for, the event scheduler
is probably the biggest one there doesn't seem to be an accessible way
to access at the moment.

On 12/24/20, Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@gmail.com> wrote:
Have you contacted the developer and shown them via video if possible
what is and is not accessible? this would be a good start if you did
not do this already.

--

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our
[website.](http://www.tffppodcast.com)

Check out my [adventures with a shadow
machine.](http://tffppodcast.com/shadow)

to subscribe to the feed click
[here](http://feeds.feedburner.com/tffp)
and you can also [follow us on
twitter](http://twitter.com/tffppodcast)

Our [discord](http://discord.tffppodcast.com) is where you will know
when we go live on [twitch.](http://twitch.tv/ke7zum) Feel free to
give the channel a follow and see what is up there.

For stream archives, products you can buy and more visit [my main
lbry
page](http://lbry.tv/@ke7zum) and my [tffp lbry
page](http://lbry.tv/@tffp) You will also be able to buy some of my
products and eBooks there.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go
[here](Http://patreon.com/tffppodcast)

On 24 Dec 2020, at 16:00, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:

Hi all,
Can anyone look into NVDA with Zara Radio? They have a paid version
and a free version, which is the one I have. There are three things
I'd like taken a look at:
1. Apparently, there are buttons at the bottom of the window for
scheduling events, adding jingles, changing the playlist mode, and a
couple other things I can't remember at the moment, but there seems
to be no way to access them with conventional navigation methods.
Can anyone try to use object navigation to try and access these
buttons and then walk me through how to do it?
2. When playing and the Zara window has focus, NVDA speaks an
endless series of percentages. Can a change be made so that these
aren't spoken?
3. When working with the playlist, there are actually two lists,
neither of which are read by NVDA. I can see what is in them, but
using NVDA I don't know what they are. I can't remember what System
Access reads for the first one if it is empty, but if there are
elements in it and a length is available, it actually reads the
length. When tabbing, System Access also reads that the second list
is the upcoming events list. Can a change be made in NVDA so that it
reads these things?
Bob