Basic Speech dictionary Question


Chris Smart
 

Hi.

 

I’m trying to fix how NVDA is pronouncing assistive, as in assistive technology. I need the first part to be spoken more like assist, without stress on the first syllable.

 

I gather I should put “assistive” or perhaps “assist” in the pattern field, but what do I put in the second field to render the pronunciation I want?

 

Thanks for any suggestions.

This is with Eloquence. I haven’t tried reading the word assistive with eSpeak.

 


Gene
 

Try experimenting with things such as ussistive.  Try uhssistive.  You can hear how these attempts are spoken here.  I tried them already.  I’m giving examples of things to try when attempting to correct pronunciations in difficult cases;.  What I offered as suggestions so far don’t work.  In such cases, I often have to separate the word in to two.  This works,
us sistive.
 
And if you find when you are experimenting in the pronounced as field that the accent isn’t exactly right or that a syllable may take a bit too long to pronounce, try placing it in the dictionary if you don’t want to try or have tried enough other spellings and they don’t work or not nearly as well.  Then see how the word is pronounced by having it spoken in the context of what you are reading.  When the screen-reader is actually reading the word along with other words, you may find the pronunciation in terms of accent or length of the syllable is more what you want. 
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2021 9:51 AM
Subject: [nvda] Basic Speech dictionary Question
 

Hi.

 

I’m trying to fix how NVDA is pronouncing assistive, as in assistive technology. I need the first part to be spoken more like assist, without stress on the first syllable.

 

I gather I should put “assistive” or perhaps “assist” in the pattern field, but what do I put in the second field to render the pronunciation I want?

 

Thanks for any suggestions.

This is with Eloquence. I haven’t tried reading the word assistive with eSpeak.

 


 

Chris,

Just an FYI, but Microsoft David pronounces the word assistive just as I would.  I have the feeling that you're going to have to do some playing around with the replacement string to find what forces the Eloquence synth to say what you want it to say.

I'd use assistive for the pattern, and start with the following for the replacement:   assist  ihve 
You may also want to try the following as the replacement string:  assist iv    or  maybe  assist uhve

In situations like this I've never found any way of getting what I want besides playing around to see how the synth in question will pronounce some string that never occurs in normal writing but that gets the pronunciation I'm looking for.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

       ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019

 


Chris Smart
 

Thanks! That’s very helpful.

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: December 9, 2021 11:14 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Basic Speech dictionary Question

 

Try experimenting with things such as ussistive.  Try uhssistive.  You can hear how these attempts are spoken here.  I tried them already.  I’m giving examples of things to try when attempting to correct pronunciations in difficult cases;.  What I offered as suggestions so far don’t work.  In such cases, I often have to separate the word in to two.  This works,

us sistive.

 

And if you find when you are experimenting in the pronounced as field that the accent isn’t exactly right or that a syllable may take a bit too long to pronounce, try placing it in the dictionary if you don’t want to try or have tried enough other spellings and they don’t work or not nearly as well.  Then see how the word is pronounced by having it spoken in the context of what you are reading.  When the screen-reader is actually reading the word along with other words, you may find the pronunciation in terms of accent or length of the syllable is more what you want. 

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2021 9:51 AM

Subject: [nvda] Basic Speech dictionary Question

 

Hi.

 

I’m trying to fix how NVDA is pronouncing assistive, as in assistive technology. I need the first part to be spoken more like assist, without stress on the first syllable.

 

I gather I should put “assistive” or perhaps “assist” in the pattern field, but what do I put in the second field to render the pronunciation I want?

 

Thanks for any suggestions.

This is with Eloquence. I haven’t tried reading the word assistive with eSpeak.

 


 

On Thu, Dec 9, 2021 at 10:51 AM, Chris Smart wrote:
I need the first part to be spoken more like assist, without stress on the first syllable.
-
Just curious, as I don't have Eloquence, is it actually putting stress on the opening syllable of assist?  If it is, that's odd, as I've never heard any human being do anything other than an unstressed uh with stress "si" syllable.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

       ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019

 


Chris Smart
 

Yep it is. Ass ist.

😊

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: December 9, 2021 11:23 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Basic Speech dictionary Question

 

On Thu, Dec 9, 2021 at 10:51 AM, Chris Smart wrote:

I need the first part to be spoken more like assist, without stress on the first syllable.

-
Just curious, as I don't have Eloquence, is it actually putting stress on the opening syllable of assist?  If it is, that's odd, as I've never heard any human being do anything other than an unstressed uh with stress "si" syllable.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

       ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019

 


Gene
 

It slightly accents the first syllable but I don’t think that is the main reason it sounds not to your liking.  I think it is because it is pronouncing the a as a short a ant not as a short u, as it is actually pronounced in the word. 
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2021 10:25 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Basic Speech dictionary Question
 

Yep it is. Ass ist.

😊

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: December 9, 2021 11:23 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Basic Speech dictionary Question

 

On Thu, Dec 9, 2021 at 10:51 AM, Chris Smart wrote:

I need the first part to be spoken more like assist, without stress on the first syllable.

-
Just curious, as I don't have Eloquence, is it actually putting stress on the opening syllable of assist?  If it is, that's odd, as I've never heard any human being do anything other than an unstressed uh with stress "si" syllable.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

       ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019

 


Sarah k Alawami
 

Actually in my case eloquence says assistive  correct with stress on the penultimate syllable like it supposed to be. I didn’t do anything to change this.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris Smart
Sent: Thursday, December 9, 2021 7:51 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Basic Speech dictionary Question

 

Hi.

 

I’m trying to fix how NVDA is pronouncing assistive, as in assistive technology. I need the first part to be spoken more like assist, without stress on the first syllable.

 

I gather I should put “assistive” or perhaps “assist” in the pattern field, but what do I put in the second field to render the pronunciation I want?

 

Thanks for any suggestions.

This is with Eloquence. I haven’t tried reading the word assistive with eSpeak.

 


Sarah k Alawami
 

I hear the shwa like it should be [uh sist] with stress on the second sound. So to me eloquence is saying it correctly to my ear.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, December 9, 2021 8:37 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Basic Speech dictionary Question

 

It slightly accents the first syllable but I don’t think that is the main reason it sounds not to your liking.  I think it is because it is pronouncing the a as a short a ant not as a short u, as it is actually pronounced in the word. 

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2021 10:25 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Basic Speech dictionary Question

 

Yep it is. Ass ist.

😊

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: December 9, 2021 11:23 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Basic Speech dictionary Question

 

On Thu, Dec 9, 2021 at 10:51 AM, Chris Smart wrote:

I need the first part to be spoken more like assist, without stress on the first syllable.

-
Just curious, as I don't have Eloquence, is it actually putting stress on the opening syllable of assist?  If it is, that's odd, as I've never heard any human being do anything other than an unstressed uh with stress "si" syllable.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

       ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019

 


 

On Thu, Dec 9, 2021 at 11:25 AM, Chris Smart wrote:
Ass ist.
-
If that's how you're hearing it, and different perception is a real thing, then I'd suggest using assistive as the pattern and something like uh sisstive or ah sisstive as the replacement to force what you want.  You may be able to drop the space between the two, or may not.

I think if you dropped the double s you'd end up with a long I.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

       ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019

 


Chris Smart
 

Hi Sarah. Which version of Eloquence are you using?

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: December 9, 2021 11:42 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Basic Speech dictionary Question

 

Actually in my case eloquence says assistive  correct with stress on the penultimate syllable like it supposed to be. I didn’t do anything to change this.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris Smart
Sent: Thursday, December 9, 2021 7:51 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Basic Speech dictionary Question

 

Hi.

 

I’m trying to fix how NVDA is pronouncing assistive, as in assistive technology. I need the first part to be spoken more like assist, without stress on the first syllable.

 

I gather I should put “assistive” or perhaps “assist” in the pattern field, but what do I put in the second field to render the pronunciation I want?

 

Thanks for any suggestions.

This is with Eloquence. I haven’t tried reading the word assistive with eSpeak.

 


Gene
 

I get the best results so far by using this spelling:
us istive
Using two s’s as
us sistive
works reasonably well but using just one s works better.
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Gene
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2021 10:37 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Basic Speech dictionary Question
 
It slightly accents the first syllable but I don’t think that is the main reason it sounds not to your liking.  I think it is because it is pronouncing the a as a short a ant not as a short u, as it is actually pronounced in the word. 
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2021 10:25 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Basic Speech dictionary Question
 

Yep it is. Ass ist.

😊

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: December 9, 2021 11:23 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Basic Speech dictionary Question

 

On Thu, Dec 9, 2021 at 10:51 AM, Chris Smart wrote:

I need the first part to be spoken more like assist, without stress on the first syllable.

-
Just curious, as I don't have Eloquence, is it actually putting stress on the opening syllable of assist?  If it is, that's odd, as I've never heard any human being do anything other than an unstressed uh with stress "si" syllable.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

       ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019

 


Sarah k Alawami
 

I’m using code factory’s eloquence but even with the IBM tts one it still said it correctly.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris Smart
Sent: Thursday, December 9, 2021 8:51 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Basic Speech dictionary Question

 

Hi Sarah. Which version of Eloquence are you using?

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: December 9, 2021 11:42 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Basic Speech dictionary Question

 

Actually in my case eloquence says assistive  correct with stress on the penultimate syllable like it supposed to be. I didn’t do anything to change this.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris Smart
Sent: Thursday, December 9, 2021 7:51 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Basic Speech dictionary Question

 

Hi.

 

I’m trying to fix how NVDA is pronouncing assistive, as in assistive technology. I need the first part to be spoken more like assist, without stress on the first syllable.

 

I gather I should put “assistive” or perhaps “assist” in the pattern field, but what do I put in the second field to render the pronunciation I want?

 

Thanks for any suggestions.

This is with Eloquence. I haven’t tried reading the word assistive with eSpeak.

 


Cearbhall O'Meadhra
 

Chris,

 

I am using Eloquence also. I just put a space after the first “a” and it gives just the right emphasis.

 

Try this: “a ssistive” (without the quotes) and see how you find it.

 

 

All the best,

 

Cearbhall

 

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris Smart
Sent: Thursday, December 9, 2021 3:51 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Basic Speech dictionary Question

 

Hi.

 

I’m trying to fix how NVDA is pronouncing assistive, as in assistive technology. I need the first part to be spoken more like assist, without stress on the first syllable.

 

I gather I should put “assistive” or perhaps “assist” in the pattern field, but what do I put in the second field to render the pronunciation I want?

 

Thanks for any suggestions.

This is with Eloquence. I haven’t tried reading the word assistive with eSpeak.

 




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Chris Smart
 

Thanks

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Cearbhall O'Meadhra
Sent: December 9, 2021 1:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Basic Speech dictionary Question

 

Chris,

 

I am using Eloquence also. I just put a space after the first “a” and it gives just the right emphasis.

 

Try this: “a ssistive” (without the quotes) and see how you find it.

 

 

All the best,

 

Cearbhall

 

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chris Smart
Sent: Thursday, December 9, 2021 3:51 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Basic Speech dictionary Question

 

Hi.

 

I’m trying to fix how NVDA is pronouncing assistive, as in assistive technology. I need the first part to be spoken more like assist, without stress on the first syllable.

 

I gather I should put “assistive” or perhaps “assist” in the pattern field, but what do I put in the second field to render the pronunciation I want?

 

Thanks for any suggestions.

This is with Eloquence. I haven’t tried reading the word assistive with eSpeak.

 

 


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On Thu, Dec 9, 2021 at 01:40 PM, Cearbhall O'Meadhra wrote:
Try this: “a ssistive”
-
Thanks for giving the most uncomplicated option.  An 'a' before a consonant should be sounded as a schwa.  It couldn't get simpler.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

       ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019

 


Giles Turnbull
 

Hi Chris,

I have done quite a lot of work with getting screen reader pronunciations to match what I want, because I sometimes use NVDA to read poems I've written to an audience if I haven't memorised them ... sometimes if I'm doing a 45-minute reading or if I'm writing something new in an online workshop and need to tell the group what I've written but haven't had time to memorise it. One thing nobody has mentioned yet is that you can affect the stress by using capital letters ... I don't have Eloquence and assistive sounds fine for me using SAPI5 Zira, but if I wanted to get the synth to stress the second syllable more than the first, I would try this: asSistive, making the first a lowercase (if it were initially capitalised) and capitalising the second s. The capital letters do give an extra weight to the delivery of the letter.

Giles