Topics

Browse Dialogs with NVDA


Bob Cavanaugh
 

Hi all,
Okay, let's see if the third forum I post to is finally going to help
me solve this problem. First off a little background, about 15 months
ago after a Windows update, my downloads folder started being sorted
by date. It wasn't until just recently that I realized that it was
actually grouping by date before sorting by name. That being said,
right away I posted on the Microsoft help community and was told to
set the group by option in file explorer to none. I did that, and got
my downloads folder sorted by name again within file explorer.
However, when I go to open a file within an app such as Audacity, the
downloads folder is still grouped. So, the other day I finally decided
to try and fix this with another post on the Microsoft help community.
I was directed to the Windows 10 help forums, where it was pointed out
that there's a more options button within the mini explorers that
allows grouping to be turned off there, but normal keyboard commands
seemingly can't be used to access it. Can anyone help me out with
this? Btw, I updated to NVDA 2020.4 last night.
Bob


 

Serious question:  What are you referring to with "mini explorers"?

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Any idiot can face a crisis. It's the day-to-day living that wears you out.

      ~ Anton Chekhov

 


Bob Cavanaugh
 

When you say press control+O to open a file within say Audacity or Word.

On 2/19/21, Brian Vogel <britechguy@gmail.com> wrote:
Serious question:  What are you referring to with "mini explorers"?

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042

Any idiot can face a crisis. It's the day-to-day living that wears you out.

~ Anton Chekhov






 

Bob,

            By the way, those are called "browse dialogs."  You use 'em in any program when you're trying to either open a file, or save it (or save it as, the last two depend on whether it's ever been saved and whether you're changing the name).

             That being said, unless you intentionally changed something at some point, no browse dialog should open a folder with a view other than what it's set to under Windows 10.  Double check that you do indeed have Group by turned off, and that the primary sort on the Downloads folder is by Name.

              I have just gone through every button on the Browse Dialog used for opening a file, including those you access once you land on the Organize button and right arrowing from there, and I can find absolutely nothing that allows you to turn on grouping (or remove it) in the Browse Dialog.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Any idiot can face a crisis. It's the day-to-day living that wears you out.

      ~ Anton Chekhov

 


 

And when I said, "under Windows 10," I should have been more explicit and said in File Explorer under Windows 10.  
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Any idiot can face a crisis. It's the day-to-day living that wears you out.

      ~ Anton Chekhov

 


 

Hello,

Actually, Brian, I think you are wrong. The views set in the "Browse" dialogs seam to be independent from the ones set in Windows Explorer windows, strange as it may be as a behavior.

I went in both my personal "Downloads" folder (the one in my user's personal folder) and the one in "This PC" and disabled the grouping by date and set the sorting to be by name instead of by day (it was set so by me a long time ago for the folder in "This PC", but it was not for the one in my personal folder). Now it is set to no grouping and sorting by name for both places, but when I invoked a "Browse" dialog from a program (I tried in Audacity, Balabolka and Notepad++) and navigated to the "Downloads" folder, the view in both "Downloads" folders was set to grouping and sorting by date.

To disable the grouping and sorting by date in both "Downloads" folders for the "Browse" dialogs, the user has to invoke such a dialog from a program, navigate to the two folders, invoke the context menu for the folder (with nothing selected) and do it from there as it is done for the standard Windows Explorer windows. The setting is saved and applied for each "Browse" dialog, no matter from which program is invoked.

Hope this helps.

______
Best wishes,
Kostadin Kolev

На 19.2.2021 г. в 21:28, Brian Vogel написа:

Bob,

            By the way, those are called "browse dialogs."  You use 'em in any program when you're trying to either open a file, or save it (or save it as, the last two depend on whether it's ever been saved and whether you're changing the name).

             That being said, unless you intentionally changed something at some point, no browse dialog should open a folder with a view other than what it's set to under Windows 10.  Double check that you do indeed have Group by turned off, and that the primary sort on the Downloads folder is by Name.

              I have just gone through every button on the Browse Dialog used for opening a file, including those you access once you land on the Organize button and right arrowing from there, and I can find absolutely nothing that allows you to turn on grouping (or remove it) in the Browse Dialog.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Any idiot can face a crisis. It's the day-to-day living that wears you out.

      ~ Anton Chekhov

 


 

On Fri, Feb 19, 2021 at 03:14 PM, Kostadin Kolev wrote:
The views set in the "Browse" dialogs seam to be independent from the ones set in Windows Explorer windows, strange as it may be as a behavior.
-
I didn't say you can't set views that are different, but if you can find me any one of those views that allow you to set grouping, then please do, because I can't find that anywhere.  That's my point.  I can't see a solitary thing related to grouping, just sort order on a given column, and what the view (e.g., small tiles, large tiles, details) is.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Any idiot can face a crisis. It's the day-to-day living that wears you out.

      ~ Anton Chekhov

 


 

On Fri, Feb 19, 2021 at 03:14 PM, Kostadin Kolev wrote:
invoke the context menu for the folder (with nothing selected) and do it from there as it is done for the standard Windows Explorer windows. The setting is saved and applied for each "Browse" dialog, no matter from which program is invoked.
-
And I'm not doubting what you've said here, I just have never, ever experienced it, particularly in regard to grouping by date, etc.

I've tweaked sort order or actual item view many times.  And I have no idea how grouping would come to be turned on anywhere unless someone (or something, in the case of an update) turned it on.  Right now, when I open my Downloads folder in the Browse Dialog, it is grouped because I left the File Explorer view that way after I took a few days and decided that what I thought I'd hate was something I really loved.  But all other folders, no.  It follows the File Explorer view for that given folder.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Any idiot can face a crisis. It's the day-to-day living that wears you out.

      ~ Anton Chekhov

 


 

Part of the issue here is that each folder can have its own settings, or they can be applied to all folders, no matter what.





On 2/19/2021 1:50 PM, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:
Hi all,
Okay, let's see if the third forum I post to is finally going to help
me solve this problem. First off a little background, about 15 months
ago after a Windows update, my downloads folder started being sorted
by date. It wasn't until just recently that I realized that it was
actually grouping by date before sorting by name. That being said,
right away I posted on the Microsoft help community and was told to
set the group by option in file explorer to none. I did that, and got
my downloads folder sorted by name again within file explorer.
However, when I go to open a file within an app such as Audacity, the
downloads folder is still grouped. So, the other day I finally decided
to try and fix this with another post on the Microsoft help community.
I was directed to the Windows 10 help forums, where it was pointed out
that there's a more options button within the mini explorers that
allows grouping to be turned off there, but normal keyboard commands
seemingly can't be used to access it. Can anyone help me out with
this? Btw, I updated to NVDA 2020.4 last night.
Bob






 

On Fri, Feb 19, 2021 at 03:39 PM, Governor staten wrote:
Part of the issue here is that each folder can have its own settings, or they can be applied to all folders, no matter what.
-
But the only way to apply to all folders is if you do this through Control Panel, File Explorer Options, View Tab.   If you (any you) have actually done that then every blessed folder that is of the same type (e.g., contains documents and subfolders, contains music, contains pictures) should be the same.

The only way that any of these things "get out of sync" with each other is if someone's been diddling with the default views in multiple places.  If they have, this comes back to advice I gave the other day, you need to enter that in to your personal "settings changes history" document so you'll know later exactly what you did, and when.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Any idiot can face a crisis. It's the day-to-day living that wears you out.

      ~ Anton Chekhov

 


Sarah k Alawami
 

That is not a mini explorer, that is a part of file explorer, in fact I don't think there is a name for such.

Tc

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Cavanaugh
Sent: Friday, February 19, 2021 11:09 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] mini explorers with NVDA

When you say press control+O to open a file within say Audacity or Word.

On 2/19/21, Brian Vogel <britechguy@gmail.com> wrote:
Serious question: What are you referring to with "mini explorers"?

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042

Any idiot can face a crisis. It's the day-to-day living that wears you out.

~ Anton Chekhov






 

On Fri, Feb 19, 2021 at 04:01 PM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
I don't think there is a name for such.
-
There is:  a browse dialog.   And I mentioned this multiple posts ago.  Please read through ALL messages in a topic and in this group before replying to any one.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Any idiot can face a crisis. It's the day-to-day living that wears you out.

      ~ Anton Chekhov

 


Sarah k Alawami
 

Actually I don't think it is called a browse dialogue. I was told it is called the "open with" dialogue. And my iMap didn't download any messages as of yet, only got these just now.

--

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website.

Check out my adventures with a shadow machine.

to subscribe to the feed click here and you can also follow us on twitter

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on twitch. Feel free to give the channel a follow and see what is up there.

For stream archives, products you can buy and more visit my main lbry page and my tffp lbry page You will also be able to buy some of my products and eBooks there.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 19 Feb 2021, at 13:07, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Fri, Feb 19, 2021 at 04:01 PM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
I don't think there is a name for such.
-
There is:  a browse dialog.   And I mentioned this multiple posts ago.  Please read through ALL messages in a topic and in this group before replying to any one.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Any idiot can face a crisis. It's the day-to-day living that wears you out.

      ~ Anton Chekhov

 


Jackie
 

The open with dialog is just 1 of a few of these browse dialogs,
Sarah, the most notable other being the save as dialog. It's named
such because one can browse for folders to open from or save to.

On 2/19/21, Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@gmail.com> wrote:
Actually I don't think it is called a browse dialogue. I was told it is
called the "open with" dialogue. And my iMap didn't download any
messages as of yet, only got these just now.

--

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our
[website.](http://www.tffppodcast.com)

Check out my [adventures with a shadow
machine.](http://tffppodcast.com/shadow)

to subscribe to the feed click [here](http://feeds.feedburner.com/tffp)
and you can also [follow us on twitter](http://twitter.com/tffppodcast)

Our [discord](http://discord.tffppodcast.com) is where you will know
when we go live on [twitch.](http://twitch.tv/ke7zum) Feel free to give
the channel a follow and see what is up there.

For stream archives, products you can buy and more visit [my main lbry
page](http://lbry.tv/@ke7zum) and my [tffp lbry
page](http://lbry.tv/@tffp) You will also be able to buy some of my
products and eBooks there.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go
[here](Http://patreon.com/tffppodcast)

On 19 Feb 2021, at 13:07, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Fri, Feb 19, 2021 at 04:01 PM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:


I don't think there is a name for such.
-
There is:  a browse dialog.   And I mentioned this multiple posts
ago.  Please read through ALL messages in a topic and in this group
before replying to any one.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042

Any idiot can face a crisis. It's the day-to-day living that wears you
out.

~ Anton Chekhov








--
Subscribe to a WordPress for Newbies Mailing List by sending a message to:
wp4newbs-request@freelists.org with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by
visiting the list page at http://www.freelists.org/list/wp4newbs
& check out my sites at www.brightstarsweb.com & www.mysitesbeenhacked.com


Sarah k Alawami
 

Interesting. I was taught to call these dialogues by their name. Open with, Save as, and the browse one would be the one with the browse button attached to it. Easier than "mini explorer" that name to me just is nonsensical. It's easier to call the dialogues by what they are, associating the actions with said dialogues fo reasier memorization.

--

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website.

Check out my adventures with a shadow machine.

to subscribe to the feed click here and you can also follow us on twitter

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on twitch. Feel free to give the channel a follow and see what is up there.

For stream archives, products you can buy and more visit my main lbry page and my tffp lbry page You will also be able to buy some of my products and eBooks there.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 19 Feb 2021, at 13:47, Jackie wrote:

The open with dialog is just 1 of a few of these browse dialogs,
Sarah, the most notable other being the save as dialog. It's named
such because one can browse for folders to open from or save to.

On 2/19/21, Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@...> wrote:

Actually I don't think it is called a browse dialogue. I was told it is
called the "open with" dialogue. And my iMap didn't download any
messages as of yet, only got these just now.

--

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our
[website.](http://www.tffppodcast.com)

Check out my [adventures with a shadow
machine.](http://tffppodcast.com/shadow)

to subscribe to the feed click [here](http://feeds.feedburner.com/tffp)
and you can also [follow us on twitter](http://twitter.com/tffppodcast)

Our [discord](http://discord.tffppodcast.com) is where you will know
when we go live on [twitch.](http://twitch.tv/ke7zum) Feel free to give
the channel a follow and see what is up there.

For stream archives, products you can buy and more visit [my main lbry
page](http://lbry.tv/@ke7zum) and my [tffp lbry
page](http://lbry.tv/@tffp) You will also be able to buy some of my
products and eBooks there.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go
[here](Http://patreon.com/tffppodcast)

On 19 Feb 2021, at 13:07, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Fri, Feb 19, 2021 at 04:01 PM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

I don't think there is a name for such.

-
There is:  a browse dialog.   And I mentioned this multiple posts
ago.  Please read through ALL messages in a topic and in this group
before replying to any one.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042

Any idiot can face a crisis. It's the day-to-day living that wears you
out.

~ Anton Chekhov


--
Subscribe to a WordPress for Newbies Mailing List by sending a message to:
wp4newbs-request@... with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by
visiting the list page at http://www.freelists.org/list/wp4newbs
& check out my sites at www.brightstarsweb.com & www.mysitesbeenhacked.com



Jackie
 

Sarah, I'm saying they're called "browse dialogs" because they all
have the browse button embedded. Said nothing about mini explorers.

On 2/19/21, Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@gmail.com> wrote:
Interesting. I was taught to call these dialogues by their name. Open
with, Save as, and the browse one would be the one with the browse
button attached to it. Easier than "mini explorer" that name to me just
is nonsensical. It's easier to call the dialogues by what they are,
associating the actions with said dialogues fo reasier memorization.

--

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our
[website.](http://www.tffppodcast.com)

Check out my [adventures with a shadow
machine.](http://tffppodcast.com/shadow)

to subscribe to the feed click [here](http://feeds.feedburner.com/tffp)
and you can also [follow us on twitter](http://twitter.com/tffppodcast)

Our [discord](http://discord.tffppodcast.com) is where you will know
when we go live on [twitch.](http://twitch.tv/ke7zum) Feel free to give
the channel a follow and see what is up there.

For stream archives, products you can buy and more visit [my main lbry
page](http://lbry.tv/@ke7zum) and my [tffp lbry
page](http://lbry.tv/@tffp) You will also be able to buy some of my
products and eBooks there.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go
[here](Http://patreon.com/tffppodcast)

On 19 Feb 2021, at 13:47, Jackie wrote:

The open with dialog is just 1 of a few of these browse dialogs,
Sarah, the most notable other being the save as dialog. It's named
such because one can browse for folders to open from or save to.

On 2/19/21, Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@gmail.com> wrote:
Actually I don't think it is called a browse dialogue. I was told it
is
called the "open with" dialogue. And my iMap didn't download any
messages as of yet, only got these just now.

--

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our
[website.](http://www.tffppodcast.com)

Check out my [adventures with a shadow
machine.](http://tffppodcast.com/shadow)

to subscribe to the feed click
[here](http://feeds.feedburner.com/tffp)
and you can also [follow us on
twitter](http://twitter.com/tffppodcast)

Our [discord](http://discord.tffppodcast.com) is where you will know
when we go live on [twitch.](http://twitch.tv/ke7zum) Feel free to
give
the channel a follow and see what is up there.

For stream archives, products you can buy and more visit [my main
lbry
page](http://lbry.tv/@ke7zum) and my [tffp lbry
page](http://lbry.tv/@tffp) You will also be able to buy some of my
products and eBooks there.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go
[here](Http://patreon.com/tffppodcast)

On 19 Feb 2021, at 13:07, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Fri, Feb 19, 2021 at 04:01 PM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:


I don't think there is a name for such.
-
There is:  a browse dialog.   And I mentioned this multiple posts
ago.  Please read through ALL messages in a topic and in this group
before replying to any one.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042

Any idiot can face a crisis. It's the day-to-day living that wears
you
out.

~ Anton Chekhov









--
Subscribe to a WordPress for Newbies Mailing List by sending a message
to:
wp4newbs-request@freelists.org with 'subscribe' in the Subject field
OR by
visiting the list page at http://www.freelists.org/list/wp4newbs
& check out my sites at www.brightstarsweb.com &
www.mysitesbeenhacked.com






--
Subscribe to a WordPress for Newbies Mailing List by sending a message to:
wp4newbs-request@freelists.org with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by
visiting the list page at http://www.freelists.org/list/wp4newbs
& check out my sites at www.brightstarsweb.com & www.mysitesbeenhacked.com


 

On Fri, Feb 19, 2021 at 04:39 PM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
Actually I don't think it is called a browse dialogue.
-
And, as you've now been told twice, they are.  The reason you're browsing is irrelevant as far as the overarching term, browse dialog goes.  There's nothing wrong with saying Open Dialog, Save Dialog, or Save As dialog (among a number of potential others), as that tells you exactly what's being done.  But all of those are, as a class, browse dialogs, because you're either browsing for a file to open/upload if it already exists, or a folder for a save if the file is new (where you give it a name, too), or a save as if you wish to save something that already exists with a different name in either the same folder or other folder.

I actually most often use the more specific term when I know exactly what's being done, but when talking about the class, it's browse dialog.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Any idiot can face a crisis. It's the day-to-day living that wears you out.

      ~ Anton Chekhov

 


Bob Cavanaugh
 

Where in context menu is this? The logical place would be in
properties, but I see nothing in there related to grouping.

On 2/19/21, Kostadin Kolev <k.kolev1985@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello,

Actually, Brian, I think you are wrong. The views set in the "Browse"
dialogs seam to be independent from the ones set in Windows Explorer
windows, strange as it may be as a behavior.

I went in both my personal "Downloads" folder (the one in my user's personal
folder) and the one in "This PC" and disabled the grouping by date and set
the sorting to be by name instead of by day (it was set so by me a long time
ago for the folder in "This PC", but it was not for the one in my personal
folder). Now it is set to no grouping and sorting by name for both places,
but when I invoked a "Browse" dialog from a program (I tried in Audacity,
Balabolka and Notepad++) and navigated to the "Downloads" folder, the view
in both "Downloads" folders was set to grouping and sorting by date.

To disable the grouping and sorting by date in both "Downloads" folders for
the "Browse" dialogs, the user has to invoke such a dialog from a program,
navigate to the two folders, invoke the context menu for the folder (with
nothing selected) and do it from there as it is done for the standard
Windows Explorer windows. The setting is saved and applied for each "Browse"
dialog, no matter from which program is invoked.

Hope this helps.

______
Best wishes,
Kostadin Kolev

На 19.2.2021 г. в 21:28, Brian Vogel написа:

Bob,

By the way, those are called "browse dialogs." You use 'em in
any program when you're trying to either open a file, or save it (or save
it as, the last two depend on whether it's ever been saved and whether
you're changing the name).

That being said, unless you intentionally changed something
at some point, no browse dialog should open a folder with a view other
than what it's set to under Windows 10. Double check that you do indeed
have Group by turned off, and that the primary sort on the Downloads
folder is by Name.

I have just gone through every button on the Browse Dialog
used for opening a file, including those you access once you land on the
Organize button and right arrowing from there, and I can find absolutely
nothing that allows you to turn on grouping (or remove it) in the Browse
Dialog.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042

Any idiot can face a crisis. It's the day-to-day living that wears you
out.

~ Anton Chekhov


Patrick Le Baudour
 

Hi,

I've had the problem several times, I just never use grouping in explorer, but after several windows updates the download folder got brouped by date both in explorer and browse dialogs, so i had to reset it to none every time.
Seems the update from 1909 to 20h2 didn't do it, though, or i'm so used to it i corrected and forgot already.
-- Patrick

Le 19/02/2021 à 20:28, Brian Vogel a écrit :
             That being said, unless you intentionally changed something at some point, no browse dialog should open a folder with a view other than what it's set to under Windows 10.  Double check that you do indeed have Group by turned off, and that the primary sort on the Downloads folder is by Name.


 

On Fri, Feb 19, 2021 at 09:46 PM, Patrick Le Baudour wrote:
I've had the problem several times, I just never use grouping in explorer, but after several windows updates the download folder got brouped by date both in explorer and browse dialogs, so i had to reset it to none every time.
-
No one, least of all me, has claimed that Microsoft did not introduce the grouping by date in Downloads as part of a cumulative update (if memory serves).  It absolutely did, and many have posted the easy, and specific instructions for undoing that in this very venue.

It does not explain, in any way, why this would show up in a browse dialog when the folder being browsed is not set with grouping on.

I'm not attempting to claim that it's not happening, either, but it is absolutely an abberation if it is.  The longer this topic has gone on, the more I believe that the following should be tried, in order.  If SFC/DISM fixes it, then stop.

Using SFC (System File Checker) and DISM (Deployment Imaging Servicing and Management) to Repair Windows 8 & 10

Doing a Windows 10 Repair Install or Feature Update Using the Windows 10 ISO file
 --

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Any idiot can face a crisis. It's the day-to-day living that wears you out.

      ~ Anton Chekhov