Using latest N V D A, Windows 10, and especially in a list view, whether messages or a folder with multiple folders and/or files, the Windows OneCore voice says numbers full of the word and. I have looked all through the categories of settings and cannot even find a setting for speaking numbers. Maybe I have missed something??

Thanks,

Nance

--

Nancy Shackelford --Walk On Faith And Trust In Love - Michael Reid--

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There is no NVDA setting to eliminate this ridiculous implementation of speech.  I just used One Core Voices and typed the number 154 into Notepad.  When I read the current line, that being the only thing on the line, the One Core synthesizer said one-hundred and fifty four. 
One of the things I learned in perhaps first or second grade in grammar school was that you say and when there is a decimal point and nowhere else when stating a number. 

Perhaps there is something you can do with the speech dictionary using a regular expression to stop this ridiculous behavior.  Others who know how to work with regular expressions may wish to comment.  Meanwhile, if people who use One Core Voices and who care about this complain to Microsoft, maybe this will be changed.

Gene

On 3/27/2023 10:18 PM, Nancy Shackelford wrote:

Using latest N V D A, Windows 10, and especially in a list view, whether messages or a folder with multiple folders and/or files, the Windows OneCore voice says numbers full of the word and. I have looked all through the categories of settings and cannot even find a setting for speaking numbers. Maybe I have missed something??

Thanks,

Nance

--

Nancy Shackelford --Walk On Faith And Trust In Love - Michael Reid--

Virus-free.www.avast.com

Also, I wrote a six digit number and and was spoken in both the thousand
and the hundred portion of the number. I suspect this might make a
regular expression more complex. I suspect that the word and is
inserted in every division by three. I don't know the correct term but,
for example, in the billions column, millions, and so forth.

The developers may think they should make the synthesizer say numbers
incorrectly because so many people do. Then they should be consistent.
The synthesizer should mispronounce commonly mispronounced words, such
as pronouncing Mozart as moez art. Let's have consistency.

Gene

On 3/27/2023 10:51 PM, Gene wrote:

There is no NVDA setting to eliminate this ridiculous implementation
of speech. I just used One Core Voices and typed the number 154 into
Notepad. When I read the current line, that being the only thing on
the line, the One Core synthesizer said one-hundred and fifty four.
One of the things I learned in perhaps first or second grade in
grammar school was that you say and when there is a decimal point and
nowhere else when stating a number.

Perhaps there is something you can do with the speech dictionary using
a regular expression to stop this ridiculous behavior. Others who know
how to work with regular expressions may wish to comment. Meanwhile,
if people who use One Core Voices and who care about this complain to
Microsoft, maybe this will be changed.

Gene

On 3/27/2023 10:18 PM, Nancy Shackelford wrote:

Using latest N V D A, Windows 10, and especially in a list view,
whether messages or a folder with multiple folders and/or files, the
Windows OneCore voice says numbers full of the word and. I have
looked all through the categories of settings and cannot even find a
setting for speaking numbers. Maybe I have missed something??
Thanks,
Nance

--
Nancy Shackelford --Walk On Faith And Trust In Love - Michael Reid--

<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
Virus-free.www.avast.com
<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>

There is no NVDA setting to eliminate this ridiculous implementation of speech.  I just used One Core Voices and typed the number 154 into Notepad.  When I read the current line, that being the only thing on the line, the One Core synthesizer said one-hundred and fifty four. 
One of the things I learned in perhaps first or second grade in grammar school was that you say and when there is a decimal point and nowhere else when stating a number. 

Perhaps there is something you can do with the speech dictionary using a regular expression to stop this ridiculous behavior.  Others who know how to work with regular expressions may wish to comment.  Meanwhile, if people who use One Core Voices and who care about this complain to Microsoft, maybe this will be changed.

Gene

Using latest N V D A, Windows 10, and especially in a list view, whether messages or a folder with multiple folders and/or files, the Windows OneCore voice says numbers full of the word and. I have looked all through the categories of settings and cannot even find a setting for speaking numbers. Maybe I have missed something??

Thanks,

Nance

--

Nancy Shackelford --Walk On Faith And Trust In Love - Michael Reid--

 

Virus-free.www.avast.com

Interestingly, eSpeak in the British English mode uses the word “and”, whereas, in the US English mode, it does not use “and.” 

There is no NVDA setting to eliminate this ridiculous implementation of speech.  I just used One Core Voices and typed the number 154 into Notepad.  When I read the current line, that being the only thing on the line, the One Core synthesizer said one-hundred and fifty four. 
One of the things I learned in perhaps first or second grade in grammar school was that you say and when there is a decimal point and nowhere else when stating a number. 

Perhaps there is something you can do with the speech dictionary using a regular expression to stop this ridiculous behavior.  Others who know how to work with regular expressions may wish to comment.  Meanwhile, if people who use One Core Voices and who care about this complain to Microsoft, maybe this will be changed.

Gene

Using latest N V D A, Windows 10, and especially in a list view, whether messages or a folder with multiple folders and/or files, the Windows OneCore voice says numbers full of the word and. I have looked all through the categories of settings and cannot even find a setting for speaking numbers. Maybe I have missed something??

Thanks,

Nance

--

Nancy Shackelford --Walk On Faith And Trust In Love - Michael Reid--

 

Virus-free.www.avast.com

On Tue, Mar 28, 2023 at 12:06 AM, Gene wrote:

Then they should be consistent. 

-
Gene,

Humans are not consistent.  Developers are humans.  It's that simple.

Your example of numbers and how to correctly pronounce Mozart are apples and oranges, too.  It is not unconventional in certain English speaking linguistic communities to use "and" between, as you noted, the "three digit divisions," or sometimes elsewhere.  I know certain speakers of English who would say 1356 as one thousand three hundred and fifty-six.

This is another of those "choices have to be made" and the choices made do not have to suit any one of us.  If they don't, we should give feedback.  And if they really don't, until and unless that feedback is acted upon we find an alternative.

Synthesizers are much like operating systems - they are not bespoke pieces of software meant to conform to the preferences of you (the generic you) as an individual.  And heaven knows there's no shortage of alternatives available, many at no cost.
--

Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 11 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 22621; Office 2016, Version 16.0.15726.20188, 32-bit

It is much easier to be critical than to be correct.

       ~ Benjamin Disraeli, 1804-1881

I looked it up.  It is considered correct to say and in a number without a decimal point.  However, I consider it clutter when it is done in contexts where speech is used by blind listeners.  If I'm reading a newspaper article, I don't want to hear, the petition has over three hundred thousand and five hundred and fifty signatures.  Since One Core voices are intended for use by blind people, this should be able to be turned off in the One Core settings.

And when working with math, this is enormous clutter.

Gene

On 3/28/2023 10:02 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Tue, Mar 28, 2023 at 12:06 AM, Gene wrote:

Then they should be consistent. 

-
Gene,

Humans are not consistent.  Developers are humans.  It's that simple.

Your example of numbers and how to correctly pronounce Mozart are apples and oranges, too.  It is not unconventional in certain English speaking linguistic communities to use "and" between, as you noted, the "three digit divisions," or sometimes elsewhere.  I know certain speakers of English who would say 1356 as one thousand three hundred and fifty-six.

This is another of those "choices have to be made" and the choices made do not have to suit any one of us.  If they don't, we should give feedback.  And if they really don't, until and unless that feedback is acted upon we find an alternative.

Synthesizers are much like operating systems - they are not bespoke pieces of software meant to conform to the preferences of you (the generic you) as an individual.  And heaven knows there's no shortage of alternatives available, many at no cost.
--

Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 11 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 22621; Office 2016, Version 16.0.15726.20188, 32-bit

It is much easier to be critical than to be correct.

       ~ Benjamin Disraeli, 1804-1881

On Tue, Mar 28, 2023 at 11:49 AM, Gene wrote:

And whatever the case, the user should be able to control this.

-
And they do, by choice of synth.

You seem to be under the gross misapprehension, and frequently, that the granularity of user control, for everything, should have the fineness of the finest sand.  When attempts are made to do this, you end up with a settings nightmare that almost no one can navigate effectively.  All one needs to do to see this illustrated is NVDA's own settings as they've grown over the years, and they're simple compared to JAWS, Word, and many other programs, yet they should still have a search function as trying to drill down to find what you want can be almost impossible for the unfamiliar.

You are never going to be given control, at the level of how a synth executes words or phrases if history is any indication.  And if you were it would be in the synth settings, not screen reader settings.  Some control is given, to an extent, but only to an extent, via dictionaries.  If what a synth produces is not to your liking then looking for another voice and/or synth is the way to go.

I would love to have all tools be bespoke to me.  I also know that's never, ever, ever going to happen, and that defaults I don't like are going to be chosen because others do like them or think they're better.  Such is life, and when I find any given thing intolerable to me, I seek out an alternative.
--

Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 11 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 22621; Office 2016, Version 16.0.15726.20188, 32-bit

It is much easier to be critical than to be correct.

       ~ Benjamin Disraeli, 1804-1881

On Tue, Mar 28, 2023 at 12:28 PM, Gene wrote:

If I did math using a screen-reader, it would really be cumbersome hearing and in number after number.

-
And, yet again, you don't have to.  Choose a different synth, as many do not do this.  I guess it's even possible that certain voices for OneCore may not do this, but I'm certainly not about to sit here switching voices all day to determine that.

There are SAPI voices by the barrel load, among others.  It would be insane for NVDA, or any other screen reader, to pursue the path you propose as it's a grand waste of time and resources when a synth change can get you the result you want or need.  And you need not love the voice, it just has to be servicable.

Trying to make screen reader developers get into the realm of tinkering with refinements to avoid what a given synth does with numbers is just a collossal waste of time when alternatives that do what's wanted exist.  Human resources are quite limited, and the solution already exists.

In the immortal words of the Rolling Stones:  "You can't always get whatcha want.  But if you try, sometimes, you just might find, you get whatcha need!"
 
And what's wanted and needed ALREADY EXISTS.  Reinventing the wheel is completely unnecessary.
--

Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 11 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 22621; Office 2016, Version 16.0.15726.20188, 32-bit

It is much easier to be critical than to be correct.

       ~ Benjamin Disraeli, 1804-1881

It may not be appropriate for NVDA to deal with the problem but since One Core voices are used by many blind people and are considered by many to be superior to a lot or most other free voices, Microsoft should deal with the problem.  To a sighted user, this may not matter.  To a blind user, it may be important. 

I hope One Core users in The United States who care about this will raise the point with Microsoft.

Gene

On Tue, Mar 28, 2023 at 12:28 PM, Gene wrote:

If I did math using a screen-reader, it would really be cumbersome hearing and in number after number.

-
And, yet again, you don't have to.  Choose a different synth, as many do not do this.  I guess it's even possible that certain voices for OneCore may not do this, but I'm certainly not about to sit here switching voices all day to determine that.

There are SAPI voices by the barrel load, among others.  It would be insane for NVDA, or any other screen reader, to pursue the path you propose as it's a grand waste of time and resources when a synth change can get you the result you want or need.  And you need not love the voice, it just has to be servicable.

Trying to make screen reader developers get into the realm of tinkering with refinements to avoid what a given synth does with numbers is just a collossal waste of time when alternatives that do what's wanted exist.  Human resources are quite limited, and the solution already exists.

In the immortal words of the Rolling Stones:  "You can't always get whatcha want.  But if you try, sometimes, you just might find, you get whatcha need!"
 
And what's wanted and needed ALREADY EXISTS.  Reinventing the wheel is completely unnecessary.
--

Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 11 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 22621; Office 2016, Version 16.0.15726.20188, 32-bit

It is much easier to be critical than to be correct.

       ~ Benjamin Disraeli, 1804-1881

Uh, I hate the 1core voices actually. They are way too quiet as I have mild hearing loss, so I need something very, very loud. I don’t love eloquence but it doesn’t hurt my head and it says numbers funny, but I just tune it out. I do use 1core when I have to  I don’tr actgually know that “most blind people use 1core.” That I think is inaccurate.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2023 10:04 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Changing the way N V D A speaks numbers

 

It may not be appropriate for NVDA to deal with the problem but since One Core voices are used by many blind people and are considered by many to be superior to a lot or most other free voices, Microsoft should deal with the problem.  To a sighted user, this may not matter.  To a blind user, it may be important. 

I hope One Core users in The United States who care about this will raise the point with Microsoft.

Gene

On 3/28/2023 11:56 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Tue, Mar 28, 2023 at 12:28 PM, Gene wrote:

If I did math using a screen-reader, it would really be cumbersome hearing and in number after number.

-
And, yet again, you don't have to.  Choose a different synth, as many do not do this.  I guess it's even possible that certain voices for OneCore may not do this, but I'm certainly not about to sit here switching voices all day to determine that.

There are SAPI voices by the barrel load, among others.  It would be insane for NVDA, or any other screen reader, to pursue the path you propose as it's a grand waste of time and resources when a synth change can get you the result you want or need.  And you need not love the voice, it just has to be servicable.

Trying to make screen reader developers get into the realm of tinkering with refinements to avoid what a given synth does with numbers is just a collossal waste of time when alternatives that do what's wanted exist.  Human resources are quite limited, and the solution already exists.

In the immortal words of the Rolling Stones:  "You can't always get whatcha want.  But if you try, sometimes, you just might find, you get whatcha need!"
 
And what's wanted and needed ALREADY EXISTS.  Reinventing the wheel is completely unnecessary.
--

Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 11 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 22621; Office 2016, Version 16.0.15726.20188, 32-bit

It is much easier to be critical than to be correct.

       ~ Benjamin Disraeli, 1804-1881

 

--
----------

Sarah Alawami, owner of flying Blind.  Visit my website to read my story. 

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