|
Maybe, maybe not. Some of the most requested
items haven't been added to NVDA for years. Maybe they will be some day
but the developers have showed no signs of being intimidated by majority
views.
Gene
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 2:19 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] competition
The thing is, as more users would comment on an addon and would
create new issues on github to tell developers what they should improve, as more
probable it will be that those functions will be taken into the core of NVDA. It
depends on how many people are going to benefit from that function. So, the
advantage of having addons is that there is a very good opportunity for users to
give feedback and it gives flexibility for developers to implement that feedback
faster.
If you would have a screen reader which has every function
implemented, you would have to wait until next release to see
improvements.
In my view,
jaws has lots of functions which have not been improved since years. But it
implements lots of new features and lets the old ones unchanged. As of now, jaws
does not work with firefox nor with edge as good as NVDA does. Instead of
bringing such features which will be used by a small part of users FS could
concentrate on how to improve user experience for example through more intuitive
keystrokes, simpler menue structure, better productivity features and so on. My
perception is that FS is implementing every thing they have in one product
(zoomtext, open book and jaws). So, Jaws is not only a screen reader but also a
multi purpose application. If you are asking jme, this is a clear measure to
reach more users and to increase the range of relevant
customers..
And finally,
it is the wrong way to make a market out of a screen reader. A screen reader has
a very big social impact on people who have the same right to get access to
information as sighted people. In my view a screen reader should be a social
movement and not a product which investors hope to gain capital
from.
So, the best
way would be the screen readers to come together and build a powerful software,
together with mainstream software developers. There are a lot of possibilities
to get donations and sponsors for such a project and lots of jobs could be
created without having to let the users pay so much money for a software. There
is no plausible reason why a company would be forced to gain capital from such a
product.
Best
Adriani
Von: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io]
Im Auftrag von erik burggraaf
Gesendet: Montag, 18. Dezember
2017 20:50
An: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [nvda]
competition
It sounds as though people have a misunderstanding of how
windows screen readers work. The other guy relies very heavily on it's own
add-ons, called scripts. The difference is that the other guy comes with
many more customizations pre-installed. Of course, you pay for them all,
whether you use them or not. Thanks to all the jaws-wielding seniors who
paid for visual studio and microsoft sharepoint support. Enjoy.
Add-ons, scripts, apps, extentions, and let's face it,
windows screen readers in premis are old paradigm. The fact that we're
still forced to use them, whether by manual instalation or base configuration,
is against good modern design. The real answer of course is for software
designers to comply with accessibility standards and conduct proper quality
control Until that happens, hard coding screen readers through proprietary
measures are the only recourse.
The add-on store isn't a bad idea. Base-installing
more add-ons might also be convenient, although that has it's own set of
problems. Meanwhile, we have to be advocating modern new paradigm design
against the looming day when third party screen readers are a thing of the
past.
Best,
Erik
On
December 18, 2017 12:40:12 PM "Mike and Jenna" <schwaltze@...>
wrote:
I have to agree with this.
My wife asked to question the other day why use NVDA if I have to install
addons to do the stuff I want to do then also have to keep them updated. I see
this a lot with the disability place I work for part time. I have several
elders after showing them nvda and jaws have chosen jaws do to the fact they
don’t have to deal with addons.
A lot of NVDA users
won't ever know enough to know that there are add ons nor how to install
them. You are free to remove any add ons you don't want and, for
experienced users who understand the implications, a no add ons NVDA can be
offered if it really matters, which I don't think it does. I'm not
talking about including add on after add on in NVDA. I'm saying that
some add ons should be included because you aren't serving a lot of blind
people well by not doing so, meaning the large number, who will never use
add ons they have to download and install. Instead of spending time and
resources reinventing the wheel just to make it a part of core NVDA code, just
include the add on.
----- Original
Message -----
Sent: Sunday, December
17, 2017 6:19 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda]
competition
What I've liked and am liking of the AddOns on
NVDA is the ability to install those that suits are needs, thus NVDA should be
pure as always, but with each of us adding the necessary AddOns for our daily
use.
El 17/12/2017 a las 06:16 p.m., Rui Fontes
escribió:
Sorry, Gene, but if some of the addons will be
shipped with NVDA and set to run, they should stop being addons and start
being part of NVDA core...
Addon, by definition, is a piece of software
to execute a specific function that does not make part of the NVDA
core...
Regards,
Rui Fontes
Às 00:07 de 18/12/2017, Gene
escreveu:
NVDA doesn't have to adopt every popular feature of
other screen-readers to compete. I don't have much opinion about
whether this feature is implemented in NVDA directly or by an add
on. It is a peripheral feature and not an actual screen-reader
feature. It is a proper question whether NVDA development time and
resources should be put into this project. And an add on wouldn't
divert NVDA time and resources. However, when it comes to add ons,
NVDA should do what Window-eyes used to do, not because Window-eyes does
it, but because it serves users well, is logical and there is no reason of
any substance not to do it.
Window-eyes used to accomplish a number of functions by
having a number of what it pretentiously called apps, they were really
scripts, but they were available to users as add ons and were shipped with
Window-eyes and were set to run at the time of installation. Many
users of whatever screen-reader they use will never learn enough to know
anything about add ons. there are a number of add ons that should be
incorporated into NVDA as addons that are downloaded and are running when
NVDA is run.
If this were done, the major objection against making a
feature an add on would be done away with. the objection is that a
lot of people will never know about add ons and never use whatever is
being discussed. If this objection were done away with by having
many add ons be included in NVDA as running add ons at the time of
download and installation or portable use, the whole question and argument
about whether something should be an add on could be done away with.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 4:16
PM
Subject: [nvda]
competition
When it comes to the new
screen shade function in Jaws 2018 and if NVDA
should also have the
same function the main question is whether or not
NVDA is in
competition with other screen readers in order to get more
users or is
NVDA just a free screen reader for those who can't afford to
pay for a
screen reader.
-- Gera Enviado desde Thunderbird
|
|
|
good points and I agree with most if not all of them, thanks for posting.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On 18/12/2017 00:07, Gene wrote: NVDA doesn't have to adopt every popular feature of other screen-readers to compete. I don't have much opinion about whether this feature is implemented in NVDA directly or by an add on. It is a peripheral feature and not an actual screen-reader feature. It is a proper question whether NVDA development time and resources should be put into this project. And an add on wouldn't divert NVDA time and resources. However, when it comes to add ons, NVDA should do what Window-eyes used to do, not because Window-eyes does it, but because it serves users well, is logical and there is no reason of any substance not to do it.
Window-eyes used to accomplish a number of functions by having a number of what it pretentiously called apps, they were really scripts, but they were available to users as add ons and were shipped with Window-eyes and were set to run at the time of installation. Many users of whatever screen-reader they use will never learn enough to know anything about add ons. there are a number of add ons that should be incorporated into NVDA as addons that are downloaded and are running when NVDA is run.
If this were done, the major objection against making a feature an add on would be done away with. the objection is that a lot of people will never know about add ons and never use whatever is being discussed. If this objection were done away with by having many add ons be included in NVDA as running add ons at the time of download and installation or portable use, the whole question and argument about whether something should be an add on could be done away with.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Don H <mailto:lmddh50@...>
*Sent:* Sunday, December 17, 2017 4:16 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* [nvda] competition
When it comes to the new screen shade function in Jaws 2018 and if NVDA
should also have the same function the main question is whether or not
NVDA is in competition with other screen readers in order to get more
users or is NVDA just a free screen reader for those who can't afford to
pay for a screen reader.
|
|
|
but for the screen black out I suspect you might need an installed copy of nvda but can't say for sure so addons might not really be the way to go. but as I say this if you did need an installed copy then I suppose it wouldn't really matter as a portable version with the feature built in wouldn't work. this is if I am correct I do not know this.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On 18/12/2017 00:16, Don H wrote: I am one that hopes that NVDA doesn't try to compete with any other screen reader but continue to make improvements that makes the most sense relative to giving blind people as much access to computers as possible. Addons is a perfect way to introduce useful tools in a efficient way.
On 12/17/2017 6:07 PM, Gene wrote:
NVDA doesn't have to adopt every popular feature of other screen-readers to compete. I don't have much opinion about whether this feature is implemented in NVDA directly or by an add on. It is a peripheral feature and not an actual screen-reader feature. It is a proper question whether NVDA development time and resources should be put into this project. And an add on wouldn't divert NVDA time and resources. However, when it comes to add ons, NVDA should do what Window-eyes used to do, not because Window-eyes does it, but because it serves users well, is logical and there is no reason of any substance not to do it.
Window-eyes used to accomplish a number of functions by having a number of what it pretentiously called apps, they were really scripts, but they were available to users as add ons and were shipped with Window-eyes and were set to run at the time of installation. Many users of whatever screen-reader they use will never learn enough to know anything about add ons. there are a number of add ons that should be incorporated into NVDA as addons that are downloaded and are running when NVDA is run.
If this were done, the major objection against making a feature an add on would be done away with. the objection is that a lot of people will never know about add ons and never use whatever is being discussed. If this objection were done away with by having many add ons be included in NVDA as running add ons at the time of download and installation or portable use, the whole question and argument about whether something should be an add on could be done away with.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Don H <mailto:lmddh50@...>
*Sent:* Sunday, December 17, 2017 4:16 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* [nvda] competition
When it comes to the new screen shade function in Jaws 2018 and if NVDA
should also have the same function the main question is whether or not
NVDA is in competition with other screen readers in order to get more
users or is NVDA just a free screen reader for those who can't afford to
pay for a screen reader.
|
|
|
Karim Lakhani <karim.lakhani@...>
Hi,
Can someone explain why add are not included in the main
install of the APP.
If the add on's are useable by all the community, why not add
them in the main install?
I hope this doesn't come down to the amount of data you have,
I know it will be cheaper then 1800.00
Some of us don't have the knowledge to accomplish
these functions.
I think it's like Elisa, she only gets smarter the more you
use it.
EMAIL:karim.lakhani@...
$$$$
SKYPE: goldenace4
$$$$
Your reputation is in the hands
of others. That's what a
reputation is. You can't control that. The only
thing you
can control is your character.
- Wayne Walter Dyer
(1940-)
I have to agree with this. My
wife asked to question the other day why use NVDA if I have to install addons to
do the stuff I want to do then also have to keep them updated. I see this a lot
with the disability place I work for part time. I have several elders after
showing them nvda and jaws have chosen jaws do to the fact they don’t have to
deal with addons.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io]
On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 8:15
PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda]
competition
A lot of NVDA users
won't ever know enough to know that there are add ons nor how to install
them. You are free to remove any add ons you don't want and, for
experienced users who understand the implications, a no add ons NVDA can be
offered if it really matters, which I don't think it does. I'm not talking
about including add on after add on in NVDA. I'm saying that some add ons
should be included because you aren't serving a lot of blind people well by not
doing so, meaning the large number, who will never use add ons they have to
download and install. Instead of spending time and resources reinventing
the wheel just to make it a part of core NVDA code, just include the add
on.
----- Original Message
-----
Sent: Sunday, December 17,
2017 6:19 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda]
competition
What I've liked and am liking of the AddOns on NVDA is the ability to install
those that suits are needs, thus NVDA should be pure as always, but with each of
us adding the necessary AddOns for our daily use.
El 17/12/2017 a las 06:16 p.m., Rui Fontes
escribió:
Sorry, Gene, but if some of the addons will be shipped with NVDA and set to
run, they should stop being addons and start being part of NVDA
core...
Addon, by definition, is a piece of software to execute a specific function
that does not make part of the NVDA core...
Regards,
Rui Fontes
Às 00:07 de 18/12/2017, Gene escreveu:
NVDA doesn't have to adopt every popular feature of other
screen-readers to compete. I don't have much opinion about whether
this feature is implemented in NVDA directly or by an add on. It is a
peripheral feature and not an actual screen-reader feature. It is a
proper question whether NVDA development time and resources should be put
into this project. And an add on wouldn't divert NVDA time and
resources. However, when it comes to add ons, NVDA should do what
Window-eyes used to do, not because Window-eyes does it, but because it
serves users well, is logical and there is no reason of any substance not to
do it.
Window-eyes used to accomplish a number of functions by
having a number of what it pretentiously called apps, they were really
scripts, but they were available to users as add ons and were shipped with
Window-eyes and were set to run at the time of installation. Many
users of whatever screen-reader they use will never learn enough to know
anything about add ons. there are a number of add ons that should be
incorporated into NVDA as addons that are downloaded and are running when
NVDA is run.
If this were done, the major objection against making a
feature an add on would be done away with. the objection is that a lot
of people will never know about add ons and never use whatever is being
discussed. If this objection were done away with by having many add
ons be included in NVDA as running add ons at the time of download and
installation or portable use, the whole question and argument about whether
something should be an add on could be done away with.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 4:16
PM
Subject: [nvda]
competition
When it comes to the new
screen shade function in Jaws 2018 and if NVDA
should also have the same
function the main question is whether or not
NVDA is in competition with
other screen readers in order to get more
users or is NVDA just a free
screen reader for those who can't afford to
pay for a screen
reader.
-- Gera Enviado desde Thunderbird
|
|
|
Karim,
They are not included because Add-ons, as the name suggests, are
optional. Integrating them into the installer would mean that the
installer filesize would be inflated, resulting in a much bigger
download for everyone.
On 19/12/2017 9:30 am, Karim Lakhani
wrote:
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Hi,
Can someone explain
why add are not included in the main install of the APP.
If the add on's are
useable by all the community, why not add them in the main
install?
I hope this doesn't
come down to the amount of data you have, I know it will be
cheaper then 1800.00
Some of us don't have
the knowledge to accomplish these functions.
I think it's like
Elisa, she only gets smarter the more you use it.
$$$$
SKYPE:
goldenace4
$$$$
Your
reputation is in the hands of others. That's what a
reputation is. You can't control that. The only thing you
can control is your character.
- Wayne Walter Dyer (1940-)
I have to
agree with this. My wife asked to question the other day why
use NVDA if I have to install addons to do the stuff I want
to do then also have to keep them updated. I see this a lot
with the disability place I work for part time. I have
several elders after showing them nvda and jaws have chosen
jaws do to the fact they don’t have to deal with addons.
A lot of NVDA users
won't ever know enough to know that there are add ons nor
how to install them. You are free to remove any add ons
you don't want and, for experienced users who understand
the implications, a no add ons NVDA can be offered if it
really matters, which I don't think it does. I'm not
talking about including add on after add on in NVDA. I'm
saying that some add ons should be included because you
aren't serving a lot of blind people well by not doing so,
meaning the large number, who will never use add ons they
have to download and install. Instead of spending time
and resources reinventing the wheel just to make it a part
of core NVDA code, just include the add on.
----- Original
Message -----
Sent: Sunday,
December 17, 2017 6:19 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda]
competition
What I've liked and am liking of the AddOns on NVDA is the
ability to install those that suits are needs, thus NVDA
should be pure as always, but with each of us adding the
necessary AddOns for our daily use.
El 17/12/2017 a las 06:16 p.m., Rui
Fontes escribió:
Sorry, Gene, but if some of the addons will be shipped with
NVDA and set to run, they should stop being addons and start
being part of NVDA core...
Addon, by definition, is a piece of software to execute a
specific function that does not make part of the NVDA
core...
Regards,
Rui Fontes
Às 00:07 de 18/12/2017, Gene escreveu:
NVDA doesn't have to adopt every
popular feature of other screen-readers to compete. I
don't have much opinion about whether this feature is
implemented in NVDA directly or by an add on. It is a
peripheral feature and not an actual screen-reader
feature. It is a proper question whether NVDA
development time and resources should be put into this
project. And an add on wouldn't divert NVDA time and
resources. However, when it comes to add ons, NVDA
should do what Window-eyes used to do, not because
Window-eyes does it, but because it serves users well,
is logical and there is no reason of any substance not
to do it.
Window-eyes used to accomplish a
number of functions by having a number of what it
pretentiously called apps, they were really scripts, but
they were available to users as add ons and were shipped
with Window-eyes and were set to run at the time of
installation. Many users of whatever screen-reader they
use will never learn enough to know anything about add
ons. there are a number of add ons that should be
incorporated into NVDA as addons that are downloaded and
are running when NVDA is run.
If this were done, the major
objection against making a feature an add on would be
done away with. the objection is that a lot of people
will never know about add ons and never use whatever is
being discussed. If this objection were done away with
by having many add ons be included in NVDA as running
add ons at the time of download and installation or
portable use, the whole question and argument about
whether something should be an add on could be done away
with.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, December 17,
2017 4:16 PM
Subject: [nvda]
competition
When it
comes to the new screen shade function in Jaws 2018 and if
NVDA
should also have the same function the main question is
whether or not
NVDA is in competition with other screen readers in order
to get more
users or is NVDA just a free screen reader for those who
can't afford to
pay for a screen reader.
--
Gera
Enviado desde Thunderbird
|
|
|
But Jaws still does make use of scripts a when necessary and I don't see how anyone can afford keeping that thing updated. I'm sure it comes down to what your software needs are. I use both Word and Outlook Office 365, Itunes, and Winamp, to name a few, and NVDA meets my needs very well.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On 12/18/2017 6:41 PM, Sam Taylor wrote: Karim,
They are not included because Add-ons, as the name suggests, are optional. Integrating them into the installer would mean that the installer filesize would be inflated, resulting in a much bigger download for everyone.
On 19/12/2017 9:30 am, Karim Lakhani wrote:
Hi,
Can someone explain why add are not included in the main install of the APP.
If the add on's are useable by all the community, why not add them in the main install?
I hope this doesn't come down to the amount of data you have, I know it will be cheaper then 1800.00
Some of us don't have the knowledge to accomplish these functions.
I think it's like Elisa, she only gets smarter the more you use it.
EMAIL:karim.lakhani@...
$$$$
SKYPE: goldenace4
$$$$
Your reputation is in the hands of others. That's what a
reputation is. You can't control that. The only thing you
can control is your character.
- Wayne Walter Dyer (1940-)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] *On Behalf Of *Mike and Jenna
*Sent:* Monday, December 18, 2017 10:39 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] competition
I have to agree with this. My wife asked to question the other day why use NVDA if I have to install addons to do the stuff I want to do then also have to keep them updated. I see this a lot with the disability place I work for part time. I have several elders after showing them nvda and jaws have chosen jaws do to the fact they don’t have to deal with addons.
*From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] *On Behalf Of *Gene
*Sent:* Sunday, December 17, 2017 8:15 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] competition
A lot of NVDA users won't ever know enough to know that there are add ons nor how to install them. You are free to remove any add ons you don't want and, for experienced users who understand the implications, a no add ons NVDA can be offered if it really matters, which I don't think it does. I'm not talking about including add on after add on in NVDA. I'm saying that some add ons should be included because you aren't serving a lot of blind people well by not doing so, meaning the large number, who will never use add ons they have to download and install. Instead of spending time and resources reinventing the wheel just to make it a part of core NVDA code, just include the add on.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:*Gerardo Corripio <mailto:gera1027@...>
*Sent:*Sunday, December 17, 2017 6:19 PM
*To:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:*Re: [nvda] competition
What I've liked and am liking of the AddOns on NVDA is the ability to install those that suits are needs, thus NVDA should be pure as always, but with each of us adding the necessary AddOns for our daily use.
El 17/12/2017 a las 06:16 p.m., Rui Fontes escribió:
Sorry, Gene, but if some of the addons will be shipped with NVDA
and set to run, they should stop being addons and start being part
of NVDA core...
Addon, by definition, is a piece of software to execute a specific
function that does not make part of the NVDA core...
Regards,
Rui Fontes
Às 00:07 de 18/12/2017, Gene escreveu:
NVDA doesn't have to adopt every popular feature of other
screen-readers to compete. I don't have much opinion about
whether this feature is implemented in NVDA directly or by an
add on. It is a peripheral feature and not an actual
screen-reader feature. It is a proper question whether NVDA
development time and resources should be put into this
project. And an add on wouldn't divert NVDA time and
resources. However, when it comes to add ons, NVDA should do
what Window-eyes used to do, not because Window-eyes does it,
but because it serves users well, is logical and there is no
reason of any substance not to do it.
Window-eyes used to accomplish a number of functions by having
a number of what it pretentiously called apps, they were
really scripts, but they were available to users as add ons
and were shipped with Window-eyes and were set to run at the
time of installation. Many users of whatever screen-reader
they use will never learn enough to know anything about add
ons. there are a number of add ons that should be
incorporated into NVDA as addons that are downloaded and are
running when NVDA is run.
If this were done, the major objection against making a
feature an add on would be done away with. the objection is
that a lot of people will never know about add ons and never
use whatever is being discussed. If this objection were done
away with by having many add ons be included in NVDA as
running add ons at the time of download and installation or
portable use, the whole question and argument about whether
something should be an add on could be done away with.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Don H <mailto:lmddh50@...>
*Sent:* Sunday, December 17, 2017 4:16 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* [nvda] competition
When it comes to the new screen shade function in Jaws 2018
and if NVDA
should also have the same function the main question is
whether or not
NVDA is in competition with other screen readers in order to
get more
users or is NVDA just a free screen reader for those who can't
afford to
pay for a screen reader.
--
Gera
Enviado desde Thunderbird
|
|
|
Absolutely but the main reason why JAWS is still in use is because of
vocational rehab agencies for the blind.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
-----Original Message----- From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of bob jutzi Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 3:55 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] competition But Jaws still does make use of scripts a when necessary and I don't see how anyone can afford keeping that thing updated. I'm sure it comes down to what your software needs are. I use both Word and Outlook Office 365, Itunes, and Winamp, to name a few, and NVDA meets my needs very well. On 12/18/2017 6:41 PM, Sam Taylor wrote: Karim,
They are not included because Add-ons, as the name suggests, are
optional. Integrating them into the installer would mean that the
installer filesize would be inflated, resulting in a much bigger
download for everyone.
On 19/12/2017 9:30 am, Karim Lakhani wrote:
Hi,
Can someone explain why add are not included in the main install of
the APP.
If the add on's are useable by all the community, why not add them in
the main install?
I hope this doesn't come down to the amount of data you have, I know
it will be cheaper then 1800.00 Some of us don't have the knowledge
to accomplish these functions.
I think it's like Elisa, she only gets smarter the more you use it.
EMAIL:karim.lakhani@...
$$$$
SKYPE: goldenace4
$$$$
Your reputation is in the hands of others. That's what a reputation
is. You can't control that. The only thing you can control is your
character.
- Wayne Walter Dyer (1940-)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
---
*From:* nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] *On Behalf
Of *Mike and Jenna
*Sent:* Monday, December 18, 2017 10:39 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] competition
I have to agree with this. My wife asked to question the other day
why use NVDA if I have to install addons to do the stuff I want to do
then also have to keep them updated. I see this a lot with the
disability place I work for part time. I have several elders after
showing them nvda and jaws have chosen jaws do to the fact they don’t
have to deal with addons.
*From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] *On Behalf Of
*Gene
*Sent:* Sunday, December 17, 2017 8:15 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] competition
A lot of NVDA users won't ever know enough to know that there are add
ons nor how to install them. You are free to remove any add ons you
don't want and, for experienced users who understand the
implications, a no add ons NVDA can be offered if it really matters,
which I don't think it does. I'm not talking about including add on
after add on in NVDA. I'm saying that some add ons should be
included because you aren't serving a lot of blind people well by not
doing so, meaning the large number, who will never use add ons they
have to download and install. Instead of spending time and resources
reinventing the wheel just to make it a part of core NVDA code, just include the add on.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:*Gerardo Corripio <mailto:gera1027@...>
*Sent:*Sunday, December 17, 2017 6:19 PM
*To:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:*Re: [nvda] competition
What I've liked and am liking of the AddOns on NVDA is the ability to
install those that suits are needs, thus NVDA should be pure as
always, but with each of us adding the necessary AddOns for our daily
use.
El 17/12/2017 a las 06:16 p.m., Rui Fontes escribió:
Sorry, Gene, but if some of the addons will be shipped with NVDA
and set to run, they should stop being addons and start being part
of NVDA core...
Addon, by definition, is a piece of software to execute a specific
function that does not make part of the NVDA core...
Regards,
Rui Fontes
Às 00:07 de 18/12/2017, Gene escreveu:
NVDA doesn't have to adopt every popular feature of other
screen-readers to compete. I don't have much opinion about
whether this feature is implemented in NVDA directly or by an
add on. It is a peripheral feature and not an actual
screen-reader feature. It is a proper question whether NVDA
development time and resources should be put into this
project. And an add on wouldn't divert NVDA time and
resources. However, when it comes to add ons, NVDA should do
what Window-eyes used to do, not because Window-eyes does it,
but because it serves users well, is logical and there is no
reason of any substance not to do it.
Window-eyes used to accomplish a number of functions by having
a number of what it pretentiously called apps, they were
really scripts, but they were available to users as add ons
and were shipped with Window-eyes and were set to run at the
time of installation. Many users of whatever screen-reader
they use will never learn enough to know anything about add
ons. there are a number of add ons that should be
incorporated into NVDA as addons that are downloaded and are
running when NVDA is run.
If this were done, the major objection against making a
feature an add on would be done away with. the objection is
that a lot of people will never know about add ons and never
use whatever is being discussed. If this objection were done
away with by having many add ons be included in NVDA as
running add ons at the time of download and installation or
portable use, the whole question and argument about whether
something should be an add on could be done away with.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Don H <mailto:lmddh50@...>
*Sent:* Sunday, December 17, 2017 4:16 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* [nvda] competition
When it comes to the new screen shade function in Jaws 2018
and if NVDA
should also have the same function the main question is
whether or not
NVDA is in competition with other screen readers in order to
get more
users or is NVDA just a free screen reader for those who can't
afford to
pay for a screen reader.
--
Gera
Enviado desde Thunderbird
|
|
|
Karim Lakhani <karim.lakhani@...>
Could we as NVDA users have the choice which version works the
best for the individual?
That way we can choose which version to down
load?
personally the voice over APP. with the Phone's out of
the box it's great.
People can jail break and all, so as the people who
code NVDA, would have to be the persons who decides what is
important.
EMAIL:karim.lakhani@...
$$$$
SKYPE: goldenace4
$$$$
Your reputation is in the hands
of others. That's what a
reputation is. You can't control that. The only
thing you
can control is your character.
- Wayne Walter Dyer
(1940-)
Karim,
They are not included because Add-ons, as the name suggests, are optional.
Integrating them into the installer would mean that the installer filesize would
be inflated, resulting in a much bigger download for everyone.
On 19/12/2017 9:30 am, Karim Lakhani wrote:
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Hi,
Can someone explain why add are not included in the
main install of the APP.
If the add on's are useable by all the community, why not
add them in the main install?
I hope this doesn't come down to the amount of data you
have, I know it will be cheaper then 1800.00
Some of us don't have the knowledge to accomplish
these functions.
I think it's like Elisa, she only gets smarter the more you
use it.
$$$$
SKYPE: goldenace4
$$$$
Your reputation is in the
hands of others. That's what a
reputation is. You can't control that. The
only thing you
can control is your character.
- Wayne Walter Dyer
(1940-)
I have to agree with this.
My wife asked to question the other day why use NVDA if I have to install
addons to do the stuff I want to do then also have to keep them updated. I see
this a lot with the disability place I work for part time. I have several
elders after showing them nvda and jaws have chosen jaws do to the fact they
don’t have to deal with addons.
A lot of NVDA users
won't ever know enough to know that there are add ons nor how to install
them. You are free to remove any add ons you don't want and, for
experienced users who understand the implications, a no add ons NVDA can be
offered if it really matters, which I don't think it does. I'm not
talking about including add on after add on in NVDA. I'm saying that
some add ons should be included because you aren't serving a lot of blind
people well by not doing so, meaning the large number, who will never use
add ons they have to download and install. Instead of spending time and
resources reinventing the wheel just to make it a part of core NVDA code, just
include the add on.
----- Original
Message -----
Sent: Sunday, December
17, 2017 6:19 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda]
competition
What I've liked and am liking of the AddOns on NVDA is the ability to
install those that suits are needs, thus NVDA should be pure as always, but
with each of us adding the necessary AddOns for our daily use.
El 17/12/2017 a las 06:16 p.m., Rui Fontes
escribió:
Sorry, Gene, but if some of the addons will be shipped with NVDA and set
to run, they should stop being addons and start being part of NVDA
core...
Addon, by definition, is a piece of software to execute a specific
function that does not make part of the NVDA core...
Regards,
Rui Fontes
Às 00:07 de 18/12/2017, Gene
escreveu:
NVDA doesn't have to adopt every popular feature of
other screen-readers to compete. I don't have much opinion about
whether this feature is implemented in NVDA directly or by an add
on. It is a peripheral feature and not an actual screen-reader
feature. It is a proper question whether NVDA development time and
resources should be put into this project. And an add on wouldn't
divert NVDA time and resources. However, when it comes to add ons,
NVDA should do what Window-eyes used to do, not because Window-eyes does
it, but because it serves users well, is logical and there is no reason of
any substance not to do it.
Window-eyes used to accomplish a number of functions by
having a number of what it pretentiously called apps, they were really
scripts, but they were available to users as add ons and were shipped with
Window-eyes and were set to run at the time of installation. Many
users of whatever screen-reader they use will never learn enough to know
anything about add ons. there are a number of add ons that should be
incorporated into NVDA as addons that are downloaded and are running when
NVDA is run.
If this were done, the major objection against making a
feature an add on would be done away with. the objection is that a
lot of people will never know about add ons and never use whatever is
being discussed. If this objection were done away with by having
many add ons be included in NVDA as running add ons at the time of
download and installation or portable use, the whole question and argument
about whether something should be an add on could be done away with.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 4:16
PM
Subject: [nvda]
competition
When it comes to the new
screen shade function in Jaws 2018 and if NVDA
should also have the
same function the main question is whether or not
NVDA is in
competition with other screen readers in order to get more
users or is
NVDA just a free screen reader for those who can't afford to
pay for a
screen reader.
-- Gera Enviado desde Thunderbird
|
|
|
Lino Morales <linomorales001@...>
Thir is on ly one NVDA. You want add-ons download them. What does
VO have to do with it? Meanwhile as Kereme hits the nog in Canada
again...
On 12/18/2017 8:22 PM, Karim Lakhani
wrote:
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Could we as NVDA users
have the choice which version works the best for the
individual?
That way we can choose
which version to down load?
personally the voice over APP.
with the Phone's out of the box it's great.
People can jail break and all, so
as the people who code NVDA, would have to be the persons
who decides what is important.
$$$$
SKYPE:
goldenace4
$$$$
Your
reputation is in the hands of others. That's what a
reputation is. You can't control that. The only thing you
can control is your character.
- Wayne Walter Dyer (1940-)
Karim,
They are not included because Add-ons, as the name suggests,
are optional. Integrating them into the installer would mean
that the installer filesize would be inflated, resulting in a
much bigger download for everyone.
On 19/12/2017 9:30 am, Karim Lakhani
wrote:
Hi,
Can someone explain
why add are not included in the main install of the APP.
If the add on's are
useable by all the community, why not add them in the main
install?
I hope this doesn't
come down to the amount of data you have, I know it will
be cheaper then 1800.00
Some of us don't
have the knowledge to accomplish these functions.
I think it's like
Elisa, she only gets smarter the more you use it.
$$$$
SKYPE:
goldenace4
$$$$
Your
reputation is in the hands of others. That's what a
reputation is. You can't control that. The only thing you
can control is your character.
- Wayne Walter Dyer (1940-)
I have to
agree with this. My wife asked to question the other day
why use NVDA if I have to install addons to do the stuff I
want to do then also have to keep them updated. I see this
a lot with the disability place I work for part time. I
have several elders after showing them nvda and jaws have
chosen jaws do to the fact they don’t have to deal with
addons.
A lot of NVDA users
won't ever know enough to know that there are add ons
nor how to install them. You are free to remove any add
ons you don't want and, for experienced users who
understand the implications, a no add ons NVDA can be
offered if it really matters, which I don't think it
does. I'm not talking about including add on after add
on in NVDA. I'm saying that some add ons should be
included because you aren't serving a lot of blind
people well by not doing so, meaning the large number,
who will never use add ons they have to download and
install. Instead of spending time and resources
reinventing the wheel just to make it a part of core
NVDA code, just include the add on.
----- Original
Message -----
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 6:19 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] competition
What I've liked and am liking of the AddOns on NVDA is the
ability to install those that suits are needs, thus NVDA
should be pure as always, but with each of us adding the
necessary AddOns for our daily use.
El 17/12/2017 a las 06:16 p.m., Rui
Fontes escribió:
Sorry, Gene, but if some of the addons will be shipped
with NVDA and set to run, they should stop being addons
and start being part of NVDA core...
Addon, by definition, is a piece of software to execute a
specific function that does not make part of the NVDA
core...
Regards,
Rui Fontes
Às 00:07 de 18/12/2017, Gene
escreveu:
NVDA doesn't have to adopt every
popular feature of other screen-readers to compete. I
don't have much opinion about whether this feature is
implemented in NVDA directly or by an add on. It is a
peripheral feature and not an actual screen-reader
feature. It is a proper question whether NVDA
development time and resources should be put into this
project. And an add on wouldn't divert NVDA time and
resources. However, when it comes to add ons, NVDA
should do what Window-eyes used to do, not because
Window-eyes does it, but because it serves users well,
is logical and there is no reason of any substance not
to do it.
Window-eyes used to accomplish a
number of functions by having a number of what it
pretentiously called apps, they were really scripts,
but they were available to users as add ons and were
shipped with Window-eyes and were set to run at the
time of installation. Many users of whatever
screen-reader they use will never learn enough to know
anything about add ons. there are a number of add ons
that should be incorporated into NVDA as addons that
are downloaded and are running when NVDA is run.
If this were done, the major
objection against making a feature an add on would be
done away with. the objection is that a lot of people
will never know about add ons and never use whatever
is being discussed. If this objection were done away
with by having many add ons be included in NVDA as
running add ons at the time of download and
installation or portable use, the whole question and
argument about whether something should be an add on
could be done away with.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, December
17, 2017 4:16 PM
Subject: [nvda]
competition
When it
comes to the new screen shade function in Jaws 2018 and
if NVDA
should also have the same function the main question is
whether or not
NVDA is in competition with other screen readers in
order to get more
users or is NVDA just a free screen reader for those who
can't afford to
pay for a screen reader.
--
Gera
Enviado desde Thunderbird
|
|
|
Karim Lakhani <karim.lakhani@...>
I'm not sure what language you are
writing?
What screen reader are you using voice
over?
The reason I didn't want to downloads is because I don't know
how?
When NVDA updates I get the notification and install it
without worry about finding scripts, add no's or what ever window eye's use to
call it.
Does that make sense to you?
EMAIL:karim.lakhani@...
$$$$
SKYPE: goldenace4
$$$$
Your reputation is in the hands
of others. That's what a
reputation is. You can't control that. The only
thing you
can control is your character.
- Wayne Walter Dyer
(1940-)
Thir is on ly one NVDA. You want add-ons download them. What does VO have to
do with it? Meanwhile as Kereme hits the nog in Canada again...
On 12/18/2017 8:22 PM, Karim Lakhani wrote:
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Could we as NVDA users have the choice which version works
the best for the individual?
That way we can choose which version to down
load?
personally the voice over APP. with the Phone's out
of the box it's great.
People can jail break and all, so as the people who
code NVDA, would have to be the persons who decides what is
important.
$$$$
SKYPE: goldenace4
$$$$
Your reputation is in the
hands of others. That's what a
reputation is. You can't control that. The
only thing you
can control is your character.
- Wayne Walter Dyer
(1940-)
Karim,
They are not included because Add-ons, as the name suggests, are optional.
Integrating them into the installer would mean that the installer filesize
would be inflated, resulting in a much bigger download for everyone.
On 19/12/2017 9:30 am, Karim Lakhani
wrote:
Hi,
Can someone explain why add are not included in the
main install of the APP.
If the add on's are useable by all the community, why not
add them in the main install?
I hope this doesn't come down to the amount of data you
have, I know it will be cheaper then 1800.00
Some of us don't have the knowledge to accomplish
these functions.
I think it's like Elisa, she only gets smarter the more
you use it.
$$$$
SKYPE:
goldenace4
$$$$
Your reputation is in the
hands of others. That's what a
reputation is. You can't control that. The
only thing you
can control is your character.
- Wayne Walter Dyer
(1940-)
I have to agree with
this. My wife asked to question the other day why use NVDA if I have to
install addons to do the stuff I want to do then also have to keep them
updated. I see this a lot with the disability place I work for part time. I
have several elders after showing them nvda and jaws have chosen jaws do to
the fact they don’t have to deal with addons.
A lot of NVDA users
won't ever know enough to know that there are add ons nor how to install
them. You are free to remove any add ons you don't want and, for
experienced users who understand the implications, a no add ons NVDA can be
offered if it really matters, which I don't think it does. I'm not
talking about including add on after add on in NVDA. I'm saying that
some add ons should be included because you aren't serving a lot of blind
people well by not doing so, meaning the large number, who will never
use add ons they have to download and install. Instead of spending
time and resources reinventing the wheel just to make it a part of core NVDA
code, just include the add on.
----- Original
Message -----
Sent: Sunday, December
17, 2017 6:19 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda]
competition
What I've liked and am liking of the AddOns on NVDA is the ability to
install those that suits are needs, thus NVDA should be pure as always, but
with each of us adding the necessary AddOns for our daily
use.
El 17/12/2017 a las 06:16 p.m., Rui Fontes
escribió:
Sorry, Gene, but if some of the addons will be shipped with NVDA and
set to run, they should stop being addons and start being part of NVDA
core...
Addon, by definition, is a piece of software to execute a specific
function that does not make part of the NVDA core...
Regards,
Rui Fontes
Às 00:07 de 18/12/2017, Gene
escreveu:
NVDA doesn't have to adopt every popular feature of
other screen-readers to compete. I don't have much opinion about
whether this feature is implemented in NVDA directly or by an add
on. It is a peripheral feature and not an actual screen-reader
feature. It is a proper question whether NVDA development time and
resources should be put into this project. And an add on wouldn't
divert NVDA time and resources. However, when it comes to add ons,
NVDA should do what Window-eyes used to do, not because Window-eyes does
it, but because it serves users well, is logical and there is no reason
of any substance not to do it.
Window-eyes used to accomplish a number of functions
by having a number of what it pretentiously called apps, they were
really scripts, but they were available to users as add ons and were
shipped with Window-eyes and were set to run at the time of
installation. Many users of whatever screen-reader they use will
never learn enough to know anything about add ons. there are a
number of add ons that should be incorporated into NVDA as addons that
are downloaded and are running when NVDA is
run.
If this were done, the major objection against making
a feature an add on would be done away with. the objection is that
a lot of people will never know about add ons and never use whatever is
being discussed. If this objection were done away with by having
many add ons be included in NVDA as running add ons at the time of
download and installation or portable use, the whole question and
argument about whether something should be an add on could be done away
with.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 4:16
PM
Subject: [nvda]
competition
When it comes to the new
screen shade function in Jaws 2018 and if NVDA
should also have the
same function the main question is whether or not
NVDA is in
competition with other screen readers in order to get more
users or
is NVDA just a free screen reader for those who can't afford to
pay
for a screen reader.
-- Gera Enviado desde Thunderbird
|
|
|
erik burggraaf <erik@...>
Actually Bob, the situation with jaws is that it makes almost complete use of it Scripts. Jaws has a well-earned reputation for ignoring standards, and forcing all programs into compliance. A few off-the-shelf products work out of the box if the developers have followed certain standards, but the program's you use everyday such as Office products are heavily scripted.
I used to make pretty good money going to customers houses, uninstalling their script files, and reinstalling them. I made almost as much money doing that as I did cleaning up viruses, and had almost as good a time doing it.
Best,
Erik
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On December 18, 2017 7:38:51 PM "bob jutzi" <jutzi1@...> wrote: But Jaws still does make use of scripts a when necessary and I don't see how anyone can afford keeping that thing updated. I'm sure it comes down to what your software needs are. I use both Word and Outlook Office 365, Itunes, and Winamp, to name a few, and NVDA meets my needs very well. On 12/18/2017 6:41 PM, Sam Taylor wrote: Karim,
They are not included because Add-ons, as the name suggests, are
optional. Integrating them into the installer would mean that the
installer filesize would be inflated, resulting in a much bigger
download for everyone.
On 19/12/2017 9:30 am, Karim Lakhani wrote:
Hi,
Can someone explain why add are not included in the main install of
the APP.
If the add on's are useable by all the community, why not add them in
the main install?
I hope this doesn't come down to the amount of data you have, I know
it will be cheaper then 1800.00
Some of us don't have the knowledge to accomplish these functions.
I think it's like Elisa, she only gets smarter the more you use it.
EMAIL:karim.lakhani@...
$$$$
SKYPE: goldenace4
$$$$
Your reputation is in the hands of others. That's what a
reputation is. You can't control that. The only thing you
can control is your character.
- Wayne Walter Dyer (1940-)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] *On Behalf Of
*Mike and Jenna
*Sent:* Monday, December 18, 2017 10:39 AM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] competition
I have to agree with this. My wife asked to question the other day why
use NVDA if I have to install addons to do the stuff I want to do then
also have to keep them updated. I see this a lot with the disability
place I work for part time. I have several elders after showing them
nvda and jaws have chosen jaws do to the fact they don’t have to deal
with addons.
*From:*nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] *On Behalf Of
*Gene
*Sent:* Sunday, December 17, 2017 8:15 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] competition
A lot of NVDA users won't ever know enough to know that there are add
ons nor how to install them. You are free to remove any add ons you
don't want and, for experienced users who understand the implications,
a no add ons NVDA can be offered if it really matters, which I don't
think it does. I'm not talking about including add on after add on in
NVDA. I'm saying that some add ons should be included because you
aren't serving a lot of blind people well by not doing so, meaning the
large number, who will never use add ons they have to download and
install. Instead of spending time and resources reinventing the wheel
just to make it a part of core NVDA code, just include the add on.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:*Gerardo Corripio <mailto:gera1027@...>
*Sent:*Sunday, December 17, 2017 6:19 PM
*To:*nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:*Re: [nvda] competition
What I've liked and am liking of the AddOns on NVDA is the ability to
install those that suits are needs, thus NVDA should be pure as
always, but with each of us adding the necessary AddOns for our daily use.
El 17/12/2017 a las 06:16 p.m., Rui Fontes escribió:
Sorry, Gene, but if some of the addons will be shipped with NVDA
and set to run, they should stop being addons and start being part
of NVDA core...
Addon, by definition, is a piece of software to execute a specific
function that does not make part of the NVDA core...
Regards,
Rui Fontes
Às 00:07 de 18/12/2017, Gene escreveu:
NVDA doesn't have to adopt every popular feature of other
screen-readers to compete. I don't have much opinion about
whether this feature is implemented in NVDA directly or by an
add on. It is a peripheral feature and not an actual
screen-reader feature. It is a proper question whether NVDA
development time and resources should be put into this
project. And an add on wouldn't divert NVDA time and
resources. However, when it comes to add ons, NVDA should do
what Window-eyes used to do, not because Window-eyes does it,
but because it serves users well, is logical and there is no
reason of any substance not to do it.
Window-eyes used to accomplish a number of functions by having
a number of what it pretentiously called apps, they were
really scripts, but they were available to users as add ons
and were shipped with Window-eyes and were set to run at the
time of installation. Many users of whatever screen-reader
they use will never learn enough to know anything about add
ons. there are a number of add ons that should be
incorporated into NVDA as addons that are downloaded and are
running when NVDA is run.
If this were done, the major objection against making a
feature an add on would be done away with. the objection is
that a lot of people will never know about add ons and never
use whatever is being discussed. If this objection were done
away with by having many add ons be included in NVDA as
running add ons at the time of download and installation or
portable use, the whole question and argument about whether
something should be an add on could be done away with.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Don H <mailto:lmddh50@...>
*Sent:* Sunday, December 17, 2017 4:16 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
*Subject:* [nvda] competition
When it comes to the new screen shade function in Jaws 2018
and if NVDA
should also have the same function the main question is
whether or not
NVDA is in competition with other screen readers in order to
get more
users or is NVDA just a free screen reader for those who can't
afford to
pay for a screen reader.
--
Gera
Enviado desde Thunderbird
|
|
|
erik burggraaf <erik@...>
Well, It wouldn't be totally unreasonable for the developers to pick maybe three or five of the best most useful add-ons, bundle them with NVDA, and offer them during instalation. Browsers do that. Other screen readers would be worthless if they didn't install their scripts. Their development is a bit different from NVDA's
It's not about space really, although keeping nvda small isn't a bad thing.
Philosophically speaking, we expect our OS, windows, our software, and our screenreader NVDA, to all comply with standards to the point where add-ons aren't needed. Thus, bundling add-ons, while not bad, wouldn't comply with the core philosophy. Then again, making the screen reader extensible and allowing add ons would be strictly against the letter of new paradigm and NVDA philosophy.
Then there are distribution and licencing issues. because of add-ons are developed by third parties mostly. These issues may include, licencing, updates, quality control, and more.
Then there is a performance and stability concern. I don't use many add-ons, but theoretically, the more add-ons installed, the less stable the NVDA, and the more margin for error. If you have an issue where NVDA is crashing, it's nice to know there are no add-ons in the equasion, or at least, to know what add-ons are in use. If NVDA installs add-ons it thinks you want, you may be unaware that those are active when you go to troubleshoot NVDA.
Add-ons make a good testing ground for new ideas. Ocasionally, an add-on developed for something crytical such as a braille display driver, will actually get intergrated into NVDA core. So, you get the benefit of the add-on, along with the performance and stability of intergration, and the convenience of not having to research and install key functionality.
Bundling add-ons has some serious advantages and disadvantages. It would be nice to have as many add-ons as possible swept up together into a store or other convenient distribution channel, but I'm pretty happy with the current system of carefully testing and intergrating add-ons that provide key functionality or features
Best,
Erik
On December 18, 2017 6:32:12 PM "Karim Lakhani" <karim.lakhani@...> wrote:
Hi,
Can someone explain why add are not included in the main
install of the APP.
If the add on's are useable by all the community, why not add
them in the main install?
I hope this doesn't come down to the amount of data you have,
I know it will be cheaper then 1800.00
Some of us don't have the knowledge to accomplish
these functions.
I think it's like Elisa, she only gets smarter the more you
use it.
EMAIL:karim.lakhani@...
$$$$
SKYPE: goldenace4
$$$$
Your reputation is in the hands
of others. That's what a
reputation is. You can't control that. The only
thing you
can control is your character.
- Wayne Walter Dyer
(1940-)
I have to agree with this. My
wife asked to question the other day why use NVDA if I have to install addons to
do the stuff I want to do then also have to keep them updated. I see this a lot
with the disability place I work for part time. I have several elders after
showing them nvda and jaws have chosen jaws do to the fact they dont have to
deal with addons.
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io]
On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 8:15
PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda]
competition
A lot of NVDA users
won't ever know enough to know that there are add ons nor how to install
them. You are free to remove any add ons you don't want and, for
experienced users who understand the implications, a no add ons NVDA can be
offered if it really matters, which I don't think it does. I'm not talking
about including add on after add on in NVDA. I'm saying that some add ons
should be included because you aren't serving a lot of blind people well by not
doing so, meaning the large number, who will never use add ons they have to
download and install. Instead of spending time and resources reinventing
the wheel just to make it a part of core NVDA code, just include the add
on.
----- Original Message
-----
Sent: Sunday, December 17,
2017 6:19 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda]
competition
What I've liked and am liking of the AddOns on NVDA is the ability to install
those that suits are needs, thus NVDA should be pure as always, but with each of
us adding the necessary AddOns for our daily use.
El 17/12/2017 a las 06:16 p.m., Rui Fontes
escribió:
Sorry, Gene, but if some of the addons will be shipped with NVDA and set to
run, they should stop being addons and start being part of NVDA
core...
Addon, by definition, is a piece of software to execute a specific function
that does not make part of the NVDA core...
Regards,
Rui Fontes
Às 00:07 de 18/12/2017, Gene escreveu:
NVDA doesn't have to adopt every popular feature of other
screen-readers to compete. I don't have much opinion about whether
this feature is implemented in NVDA directly or by an add on. It is a
peripheral feature and not an actual screen-reader feature. It is a
proper question whether NVDA development time and resources should be put
into this project. And an add on wouldn't divert NVDA time and
resources. However, when it comes to add ons, NVDA should do what
Window-eyes used to do, not because Window-eyes does it, but because it
serves users well, is logical and there is no reason of any substance not to
do it.
Window-eyes used to accomplish a number of functions by
having a number of what it pretentiously called apps, they were really
scripts, but they were available to users as add ons and were shipped with
Window-eyes and were set to run at the time of installation. Many
users of whatever screen-reader they use will never learn enough to know
anything about add ons. there are a number of add ons that should be
incorporated into NVDA as addons that are downloaded and are running when
NVDA is run.
If this were done, the major objection against making a
feature an add on would be done away with. the objection is that a lot
of people will never know about add ons and never use whatever is being
discussed. If this objection were done away with by having many add
ons be included in NVDA as running add ons at the time of download and
installation or portable use, the whole question and argument about whether
something should be an add on could be done away with.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 4:16
PM
Subject: [nvda]
competition
When it comes to the new
screen shade function in Jaws 2018 and if NVDA
should also have the same
function the main question is whether or not
NVDA is in competition with
other screen readers in order to get more
users or is NVDA just a free
screen reader for those who can't afford to
pay for a screen
reader.
-- Gera Enviado desde Thunderbird
|
|
|
Lino Morales <linomorales001@...>
Yes. All you have to do is go into the prefferences menu under
tools and add-ons. Tab to get add-ons and your default browser
should open to the page.
On 12/18/2017 8:45 PM, Karim Lakhani
wrote:
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
I'm not sure what
language you are writing?
What screen reader
are you using voice over?
The reason I didn't
want to downloads is because I don't know how?
When NVDA updates I
get the notification and install it without worry about
finding scripts, add no's or what ever window eye's use to
call it.
Does that make sense
to you?
$$$$
SKYPE:
goldenace4
$$$$
Your
reputation is in the hands of others. That's what a
reputation is. You can't control that. The only thing you
can control is your character.
- Wayne Walter Dyer (1940-)
Thir is on ly one NVDA. You want add-ons download them. What
does VO have to do with it? Meanwhile as Kereme hits the nog in
Canada again...
On 12/18/2017 8:22 PM, Karim Lakhani
wrote:
Could we as NVDA
users have the choice which version works the best for the
individual?
That way we can
choose which version to down load?
personally the voice over APP.
with the Phone's out of the box it's great.
People can jail break and all,
so as the people who code NVDA, would have to be the
persons who decides what is important.
$$$$
SKYPE:
goldenace4
$$$$
Your
reputation is in the hands of others. That's what a
reputation is. You can't control that. The only thing you
can control is your character.
- Wayne Walter Dyer (1940-)
Karim,
They are not included because Add-ons, as the name suggests,
are optional. Integrating them into the installer would mean
that the installer filesize would be inflated, resulting in a
much bigger download for everyone.
On 19/12/2017 9:30 am, Karim
Lakhani wrote:
Hi,
Can someone
explain why add are not included in the main install of
the APP.
If the add on's
are useable by all the community, why not add them in
the main install?
I hope this
doesn't come down to the amount of data you have, I know
it will be cheaper then 1800.00
Some of us don't
have the knowledge to accomplish these functions.
I think it's like
Elisa, she only gets smarter the more you use it.
$$$$
SKYPE:
goldenace4
$$$$
Your
reputation is in the hands of others. That's what a
reputation is. You can't control that. The only thing you
can control is your character.
- Wayne Walter Dyer (1940-)
I have
to agree with this. My wife asked to question the other
day why use NVDA if I have to install addons to do the
stuff I want to do then also have to keep them updated.
I see this a lot with the disability place I work for
part time. I have several elders after showing them nvda
and jaws have chosen jaws do to the fact they don’t have
to deal with addons.
A lot of NVDA
users won't ever know enough to know that there are
add ons nor how to install them. You are free to
remove any add ons you don't want and, for experienced
users who understand the implications, a no add ons
NVDA can be offered if it really matters, which I
don't think it does. I'm not talking about including
add on after add on in NVDA. I'm saying that some add
ons should be included because you aren't serving a
lot of blind people well by not doing so, meaning the
large number, who will never use add ons they have to
download and install. Instead of spending time and
resources reinventing the wheel just to make it a part
of core NVDA code, just include the add on.
----- Original
Message -----
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 6:19
PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] competition
What I've liked and am liking of the AddOns on NVDA is
the ability to install those that suits are needs, thus
NVDA should be pure as always, but with each of us adding
the necessary AddOns for our daily use.
El 17/12/2017 a las 06:16 p.m., Rui
Fontes escribió:
Sorry, Gene, but if some of the addons will be shipped
with NVDA and set to run, they should stop being addons
and start being part of NVDA core...
Addon, by definition, is a piece of software to execute
a specific function that does not make part of the NVDA
core...
Regards,
Rui Fontes
Às 00:07 de 18/12/2017, Gene
escreveu:
NVDA doesn't have to adopt every
popular feature of other screen-readers to compete.
I don't have much opinion about whether this feature
is implemented in NVDA directly or by an add on. It
is a peripheral feature and not an actual
screen-reader feature. It is a proper question
whether NVDA development time and resources should
be put into this project. And an add on wouldn't
divert NVDA time and resources. However, when it
comes to add ons, NVDA should do what Window-eyes
used to do, not because Window-eyes does it, but
because it serves users well, is logical and there
is no reason of any substance not to do it.
Window-eyes used to accomplish a
number of functions by having a number of what it
pretentiously called apps, they were really scripts,
but they were available to users as add ons and were
shipped with Window-eyes and were set to run at the
time of installation. Many users of whatever
screen-reader they use will never learn enough to
know anything about add ons. there are a number of
add ons that should be incorporated into NVDA as
addons that are downloaded and are running when NVDA
is run.
If this were done, the major
objection against making a feature an add on would
be done away with. the objection is that a lot of
people will never know about add ons and never use
whatever is being discussed. If this objection were
done away with by having many add ons be included in
NVDA as running add ons at the time of download and
installation or portable use, the whole question and
argument about whether something should be an add on
could be done away with.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, December
17, 2017 4:16 PM
Subject: [nvda]
competition
When it
comes to the new screen shade function in Jaws 2018
and if NVDA
should also have the same function the main question
is whether or not
NVDA is in competition with other screen readers in
order to get more
users or is NVDA just a free screen reader for those
who can't afford to
pay for a screen reader.
--
Gera
Enviado desde Thunderbird
|
|
|
Sarah k Alawami
I'm actually up for competition. It will make each product better and better as time goes by.. I didn't want to use nvda in 2006 or 2007 when it came out as jaws at the time was the best. Now I won't touch jaws with a 10 foot pole. I tried to make my work switch but their excuse was that nvda was not meant for the word place and they would not consider it.
Yes. All you have to do is go into the prefferences menu under tools and add-ons. Tab to get add-ons and your default browser should open to the page.
On 12/18/2017 8:45 PM, Karim Lakhani wrote:
I'm not sure what language you are writing? What screen reader are you using voice over? The reason I didn't want to downloads is because I don't know how? When NVDA updates I get the notification and install it without worry about finding scripts, add no's or what ever window eye's use to call it. Does that make sense to you? $$$$ SKYPE: goldenace4 $$$$ Your reputation is in the hands of others. That's what a
reputation is. You can't control that. The only thing you
can control is your character.
- Wayne Walter Dyer (1940-)
Thir is on ly one NVDA. You want add-ons download them. What does VO have to do with it? Meanwhile as Kereme hits the nog in Canada again...
On 12/18/2017 8:22 PM, Karim Lakhani wrote:
Could we as NVDA users have the choice which version works the best for the individual? That way we can choose which version to down load? personally the voice over APP. with the Phone's out of the box it's great. People can jail break and all, so as the people who code NVDA, would have to be the persons who decides what is important. $$$$ SKYPE: goldenace4 $$$$ Your reputation is in the hands of others. That's what a
reputation is. You can't control that. The only thing you
can control is your character.
- Wayne Walter Dyer (1940-)
Karim, They are not included because Add-ons, as the name suggests, are optional. Integrating them into the installer would mean that the installer filesize would be inflated, resulting in a much bigger download for everyone.
On 19/12/2017 9:30 am, Karim Lakhani wrote:
Hi, Can someone explain why add are not included in the main install of the APP. If the add on's are useable by all the community, why not add them in the main install? I hope this doesn't come down to the amount of data you have, I know it will be cheaper then 1800.00 Some of us don't have the knowledge to accomplish these functions. I think it's like Elisa, she only gets smarter the more you use it. $$$$ SKYPE: goldenace4 $$$$ Your reputation is in the hands of others. That's what a
reputation is. You can't control that. The only thing you
can control is your character.
- Wayne Walter Dyer (1940-)
I have to agree with this. My wife asked to question the other day why use NVDA if I have to install addons to do the stuff I want to do then also have to keep them updated. I see this a lot with the disability place I work for part time. I have several elders after showing them nvda and jaws have chosen jaws do to the fact they don’t have to deal with addons.
A lot of NVDA users won't ever know enough to know that there are add ons nor how to install them. You are free to remove any add ons you don't want and, for experienced users who understand the implications, a no add ons NVDA can be offered if it really matters, which I don't think it does. I'm not talking about including add on after add on in NVDA. I'm saying that some add ons should be included because you aren't serving a lot of blind people well by not doing so, meaning the large number, who will never use add ons they have to download and install. Instead of spending time and resources reinventing the wheel just to make it a part of core NVDA code, just include the add on. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 6:19 PM Subject: Re: [nvda] competition What I've liked and am liking of the AddOns on NVDA is the ability to install those that suits are needs, thus NVDA should be pure as always, but with each of us adding the necessary AddOns for our daily use. El 17/12/2017 a las 06:16 p.m., Rui Fontes escribió: Sorry, Gene, but if some of the addons will be shipped with NVDA and set to run, they should stop being addons and start being part of NVDA core... Addon, by definition, is a piece of software to execute a specific function that does not make part of the NVDA core... Regards, Rui Fontes Às 00:07 de 18/12/2017, Gene escreveu: NVDA doesn't have to adopt every popular feature of other screen-readers to compete. I don't have much opinion about whether this feature is implemented in NVDA directly or by an add on. It is a peripheral feature and not an actual screen-reader feature. It is a proper question whether NVDA development time and resources should be put into this project. And an add on wouldn't divert NVDA time and resources. However, when it comes to add ons, NVDA should do what Window-eyes used to do, not because Window-eyes does it, but because it serves users well, is logical and there is no reason of any substance not to do it. Window-eyes used to accomplish a number of functions by having a number of what it pretentiously called apps, they were really scripts, but they were available to users as add ons and were shipped with Window-eyes and were set to run at the time of installation. Many users of whatever screen-reader they use will never learn enough to know anything about add ons. there are a number of add ons that should be incorporated into NVDA as addons that are downloaded and are running when NVDA is run. If this were done, the major objection against making a feature an add on would be done away with. the objection is that a lot of people will never know about add ons and never use whatever is being discussed. If this objection were done away with by having many add ons be included in NVDA as running add ons at the time of download and installation or portable use, the whole question and argument about whether something should be an add on could be done away with. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 4:16 PM Subject: [nvda] competition When it comes to the new screen shade function in Jaws 2018 and if NVDA
should also have the same function the main question is whether or not
NVDA is in competition with other screen readers in order to get more
users or is NVDA just a free screen reader for those who can't afford to
pay for a screen reader.
-- Gera Enviado desde Thunderbird
|
|
|
Hello Sarah. I have to agree with you. There are cut backs going on in education and in the agencies for the blind, and these agencies will go for NVDA once the money runs dry, trust me they will.
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2017 9:44 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] competition I'm actually up for competition. It will make each product better and better as time goes by.. I didn't want to use nvda in 2006 or 2007 when it came out as jaws at the time was the best. Now I won't touch jaws with a 10 foot pole. I tried to make my work switch but their excuse was that nvda was not meant for the word place and they would not consider it. Take care
Yes. All you have to do is go into the prefferences menu under tools and add-ons. Tab to get add-ons and your default browser should open to the page. On 12/18/2017 8:45 PM, Karim Lakhani wrote: I'm not sure what language you are writing? What screen reader are you using voice over? The reason I didn't want to downloads is because I don't know how? When NVDA updates I get the notification and install it without worry about finding scripts, add no's or what ever window eye's use to call it. Does that make sense to you? EMAIL:karim.lakhani@... $$$$ SKYPE: goldenace4 $$$$ Your reputation is in the hands of others. That's what a
reputation is. You can't control that. The only thing you
can control is your character.
- Wayne Walter Dyer (1940-)
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Lino Morales
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 6:26 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] competition Thir is on ly one NVDA. You want add-ons download them. What does VO have to do with it? Meanwhile as Kereme hits the nog in Canada again... On 12/18/2017 8:22 PM, Karim Lakhani wrote: Could we as NVDA users have the choice which version works the best for the individual? That way we can choose which version to down load? personally the voice over APP. with the Phone's out of the box it's great. People can jail break and all, so as the people who code NVDA, would have to be the persons who decides what is important. EMAIL:karim.lakhani@... $$$$ SKYPE: goldenace4 $$$$ Your reputation is in the hands of others. That's what a
reputation is. You can't control that. The only thing you
can control is your character.
- Wayne Walter Dyer (1940-)
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sam Taylor
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 4:42 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] competition Karim, They are not included because Add-ons, as the name suggests, are optional. Integrating them into the installer would mean that the installer filesize would be inflated, resulting in a much bigger download for everyone. On 19/12/2017 9:30 am, Karim Lakhani wrote: Hi, Can someone explain why add are not included in the main install of the APP. If the add on's are useable by all the community, why not add them in the main install? I hope this doesn't come down to the amount of data you have, I know it will be cheaper then 1800.00 Some of us don't have the knowledge to accomplish these functions. I think it's like Elisa, she only gets smarter the more you use it. EMAIL:karim.lakhani@... $$$$ SKYPE: goldenace4 $$$$ Your reputation is in the hands of others. That's what a
reputation is. You can't control that. The only thing you
can control is your character.
- Wayne Walter Dyer (1940-)
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Mike and Jenna
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 10:39 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] competition I have to agree with this. My wife asked to question the other day why use NVDA if I have to install addons to do the stuff I want to do then also have to keep them updated. I see this a lot with the disability place I work for part time. I have several elders after showing them nvda and jaws have chosen jaws do to the fact they don’t have to deal with addons. A lot of NVDA users won't ever know enough to know that there are add ons nor how to install them. You are free to remove any add ons you don't want and, for experienced users who understand the implications, a no add ons NVDA can be offered if it really matters, which I don't think it does. I'm not talking about including add on after add on in NVDA. I'm saying that some add ons should be included because you aren't serving a lot of blind people well by not doing so, meaning the large number, who will never use add ons they have to download and install. Instead of spending time and resources reinventing the wheel just to make it a part of core NVDA code, just include the add on. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 6:19 PM Subject: Re: [nvda] competition What I've liked and am liking of the AddOns on NVDA is the ability to install those that suits are needs, thus NVDA should be pure as always, but with each of us adding the necessary AddOns for our daily use. El 17/12/2017 a las 06:16 p.m., Rui Fontes escribió: Sorry, Gene, but if some of the addons will be shipped with NVDA and set to run, they should stop being addons and start being part of NVDA core... Addon, by definition, is a piece of software to execute a specific function that does not make part of the NVDA core... Regards, Rui Fontes Às 00:07 de 18/12/2017, Gene escreveu: NVDA doesn't have to adopt every popular feature of other screen-readers to compete. I don't have much opinion about whether this feature is implemented in NVDA directly or by an add on. It is a peripheral feature and not an actual screen-reader feature. It is a proper question whether NVDA development time and resources should be put into this project. And an add on wouldn't divert NVDA time and resources. However, when it comes to add ons, NVDA should do what Window-eyes used to do, not because Window-eyes does it, but because it serves users well, is logical and there is no reason of any substance not to do it. Window-eyes used to accomplish a number of functions by having a number of what it pretentiously called apps, they were really scripts, but they were available to users as add ons and were shipped with Window-eyes and were set to run at the time of installation. Many users of whatever screen-reader they use will never learn enough to know anything about add ons. there are a number of add ons that should be incorporated into NVDA as addons that are downloaded and are running when NVDA is run. If this were done, the major objection against making a feature an add on would be done away with. the objection is that a lot of people will never know about add ons and never use whatever is being discussed. If this objection were done away with by having many add ons be included in NVDA as running add ons at the time of download and installation or portable use, the whole question and argument about whether something should be an add on could be done away with. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 4:16 PM Subject: [nvda] competition When it comes to the new screen shade function in Jaws 2018 and if NVDA
should also have the same function the main question is whether or not
NVDA is in competition with other screen readers in order to get more
users or is NVDA just a free screen reader for those who can't afford to
pay for a screen reader.
-- Gera Enviado desde Thunderbird
|
|
|
I've been hearing about the cutbacks. Yes, I'm sure these agencies will make the switch to NVDA once the money runs out.
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sky Mundell
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2017 10:13 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] competition Hello Sarah. I have to agree with you. There are cut backs going on in education and in the agencies for the blind, and these agencies will go for NVDA once the money runs dry, trust me they will. I'm actually up for competition. It will make each product better and better as time goes by.. I didn't want to use nvda in 2006 or 2007 when it came out as jaws at the time was the best. Now I won't touch jaws with a 10 foot pole. I tried to make my work switch but their excuse was that nvda was not meant for the word place and they would not consider it. Take care Yes. All you have to do is go into the prefferences menu under tools and add-ons. Tab to get add-ons and your default browser should open to the page. On 12/18/2017 8:45 PM, Karim Lakhani wrote: I'm not sure what language you are writing? What screen reader are you using voice over? The reason I didn't want to downloads is because I don't know how? When NVDA updates I get the notification and install it without worry about finding scripts, add no's or what ever window eye's use to call it. Does that make sense to you? EMAIL:karim.lakhani@... $$$$ SKYPE: goldenace4 $$$$ Your reputation is in the hands of others. That's what a
reputation is. You can't control that. The only thing you
can control is your character.
- Wayne Walter Dyer (1940-)
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Lino Morales
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 6:26 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] competition Thir is on ly one NVDA. You want add-ons download them. What does VO have to do with it? Meanwhile as Kereme hits the nog in Canada again... On 12/18/2017 8:22 PM, Karim Lakhani wrote: Could we as NVDA users have the choice which version works the best for the individual? That way we can choose which version to down load? personally the voice over APP. with the Phone's out of the box it's great. People can jail break and all, so as the people who code NVDA, would have to be the persons who decides what is important. EMAIL:karim.lakhani@... $$$$ SKYPE: goldenace4 $$$$ Your reputation is in the hands of others. That's what a
reputation is. You can't control that. The only thing you
can control is your character.
- Wayne Walter Dyer (1940-)
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sam Taylor
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 4:42 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] competition Karim, They are not included because Add-ons, as the name suggests, are optional. Integrating them into the installer would mean that the installer filesize would be inflated, resulting in a much bigger download for everyone. On 19/12/2017 9:30 am, Karim Lakhani wrote: Hi, Can someone explain why add are not included in the main install of the APP. If the add on's are useable by all the community, why not add them in the main install? I hope this doesn't come down to the amount of data you have, I know it will be cheaper then 1800.00 Some of us don't have the knowledge to accomplish these functions. I think it's like Elisa, she only gets smarter the more you use it. EMAIL:karim.lakhani@... $$$$ SKYPE: goldenace4 $$$$ Your reputation is in the hands of others. That's what a
reputation is. You can't control that. The only thing you
can control is your character.
- Wayne Walter Dyer (1940-)
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Mike and Jenna
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 10:39 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] competition I have to agree with this. My wife asked to question the other day why use NVDA if I have to install addons to do the stuff I want to do then also have to keep them updated. I see this a lot with the disability place I work for part time. I have several elders after showing them nvda and jaws have chosen jaws do to the fact they don’t have to deal with addons. A lot of NVDA users won't ever know enough to know that there are add ons nor how to install them. You are free to remove any add ons you don't want and, for experienced users who understand the implications, a no add ons NVDA can be offered if it really matters, which I don't think it does. I'm not talking about including add on after add on in NVDA. I'm saying that some add ons should be included because you aren't serving a lot of blind people well by not doing so, meaning the large number, who will never use add ons they have to download and install. Instead of spending time and resources reinventing the wheel just to make it a part of core NVDA code, just include the add on. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 6:19 PM Subject: Re: [nvda] competition What I've liked and am liking of the AddOns on NVDA is the ability to install those that suits are needs, thus NVDA should be pure as always, but with each of us adding the necessary AddOns for our daily use. El 17/12/2017 a las 06:16 p.m., Rui Fontes escribió: Sorry, Gene, but if some of the addons will be shipped with NVDA and set to run, they should stop being addons and start being part of NVDA core... Addon, by definition, is a piece of software to execute a specific function that does not make part of the NVDA core... Regards, Rui Fontes Às 00:07 de 18/12/2017, Gene escreveu: NVDA doesn't have to adopt every popular feature of other screen-readers to compete. I don't have much opinion about whether this feature is implemented in NVDA directly or by an add on. It is a peripheral feature and not an actual screen-reader feature. It is a proper question whether NVDA development time and resources should be put into this project. And an add on wouldn't divert NVDA time and resources. However, when it comes to add ons, NVDA should do what Window-eyes used to do, not because Window-eyes does it, but because it serves users well, is logical and there is no reason of any substance not to do it. Window-eyes used to accomplish a number of functions by having a number of what it pretentiously called apps, they were really scripts, but they were available to users as add ons and were shipped with Window-eyes and were set to run at the time of installation. Many users of whatever screen-reader they use will never learn enough to know anything about add ons. there are a number of add ons that should be incorporated into NVDA as addons that are downloaded and are running when NVDA is run. If this were done, the major objection against making a feature an add on would be done away with. the objection is that a lot of people will never know about add ons and never use whatever is being discussed. If this objection were done away with by having many add ons be included in NVDA as running add ons at the time of download and installation or portable use, the whole question and argument about whether something should be an add on could be done away with. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 4:16 PM Subject: [nvda] competition When it comes to the new screen shade function in Jaws 2018 and if NVDA
should also have the same function the main question is whether or not
NVDA is in competition with other screen readers in order to get more
users or is NVDA just a free screen reader for those who can't afford to
pay for a screen reader.
-- Gera Enviado desde Thunderbird
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Well to be honest being a jaws and old hal user for a while I was always taught that all the screen needed to be intercepted by a special driver.
That the system was not accessible other wise.
With nvda in its natural state and this was back with build 400 or so, it amazed how much was actually available to me, even on xp.
Desktop access, the net, most programs, basically everything jaws can do.
There are a few things nvda could do before jaws.
Being written in a scripting language, you had sub programs to run of this and they could be compiled programs in their own right or scripts.
You could also control the reader with a library.
And while some games and a few other programs need jaws or something, technology has changed a lot.
99.9% of all programs are fully web based or at least has a web component.
Most readers I have used are still ms web browser dependant The others caught on, but only windoweyes got close to our model with programs just for the system.
Jaws does this to now but any large module, ie leasy, you need to pay the price of a digital recorder or my ocr package.
One thing which stands out for nvda is that like linux it was written with the web in mind, not an old outdated os called windows 95 or 98 and then get added on to.
Before then I had used python for games, but that was it.
This actually shows how powerfull python can be as a language and its not even a full one like c its just a script.
Its easy to learn and as far as I know nvda is quite stable compared to some programs.
I always have a dream from time to time that nvda is its own os maybe android, or linux or something like that.
Ofcause it uses keyboard, touch and is voice recognition heavy.
It can do everything it can and more.
Especially when windows gets stressfull, I want to return to the old days where the blind had their own devices for their own things.
I still would like a blindy device for things like mail, and web, and maybe some media playback though my issue is not media as such.
I'd like an easy way to choose the interface of the os without changing the os.
So I'd like to switch interfaces.
a win7 interface, xp, etc, etc without any issues switching to either.
Similar to virtual desktops.
And the ability to use it for different things.
Windows xp for media and a few other things, something modern and safe for the net, and something else for something else.
Sadly no one has thought about this.
I know I can build mods in but if it was part of the system well.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On 20/12/2017 7:29 p.m., Rosemarie Chavarria wrote: I've been hearing about the cutbacks. Yes, I'm sure these agencies will make the switch to NVDA once the money runs out.
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sky Mundell
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2017 10:13 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] competition
Hello Sarah. I have to agree with you. There are cut backs going on in education and in the agencies for the blind, and these agencies will go for NVDA once the money runs dry, trust me they will.
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2017 9:44 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] competition
I'm actually up for competition. It will make each product better and better as time goes by.. I didn't want to use nvda in 2006 or 2007 when it came out as jaws at the time was the best. Now I won't touch jaws with a 10 foot pole. I tried to make my work switch but their excuse was that nvda was not meant for the word place and they would not consider it.
Take care
On Dec 19, 2017, at 9:17 AM, Lino Morales <linomorales001@... <mailto:linomorales001@...> > wrote:
Yes. All you have to do is go into the prefferences menu under tools and add-ons. Tab to get add-ons and your default browser should open to the page.
On 12/18/2017 8:45 PM, Karim Lakhani wrote:
I'm not sure what language you are writing?
What screen reader are you using voice over?
The reason I didn't want to downloads is because I don't know how?
When NVDA updates I get the notification and install it without worry about finding scripts, add no's or what ever window eye's use to call it.
Does that make sense to you?
<mailto:EMAIL:karim.lakhani@...> EMAIL:karim.lakhani@...
$$$$
SKYPE: goldenace4
$$$$
Your reputation is in the hands of others. That's what a
reputation is. You can't control that. The only thing you
can control is your character.
- Wayne Walter Dyer (1940-)
_____
From: <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> nvda@nvda.groups.io [ <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Lino Morales
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 6:26 PM
To: <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] competition
Thir is on ly one NVDA. You want add-ons download them. What does VO have to do with it? Meanwhile as Kereme hits the nog in Canada again...
On 12/18/2017 8:22 PM, Karim Lakhani wrote:
Could we as NVDA users have the choice which version works the best for the individual?
That way we can choose which version to down load?
personally the voice over APP. with the Phone's out of the box it's great.
People can jail break and all, so as the people who code NVDA, would have to be the persons who decides what is important.
<mailto:EMAIL:karim.lakhani@...> EMAIL:karim.lakhani@...
$$$$
SKYPE: goldenace4
$$$$
Your reputation is in the hands of others. That's what a
reputation is. You can't control that. The only thing you
can control is your character.
- Wayne Walter Dyer (1940-)
_____
From: <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> nvda@nvda.groups.io [ <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sam Taylor
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 4:42 PM
To: <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] competition
Karim,
They are not included because Add-ons, as the name suggests, are optional. Integrating them into the installer would mean that the installer filesize would be inflated, resulting in a much bigger download for everyone.
On 19/12/2017 9:30 am, Karim Lakhani wrote:
Hi,
Can someone explain why add are not included in the main install of the APP.
If the add on's are useable by all the community, why not add them in the main install?
I hope this doesn't come down to the amount of data you have, I know it will be cheaper then 1800.00
Some of us don't have the knowledge to accomplish these functions.
I think it's like Elisa, she only gets smarter the more you use it.
<mailto:EMAIL:karim.lakhani@...> EMAIL:karim.lakhani@...
$$$$
SKYPE: goldenace4
$$$$
Your reputation is in the hands of others. That's what a
reputation is. You can't control that. The only thing you
can control is your character.
- Wayne Walter Dyer (1940-)
_____
From: <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> nvda@nvda.groups.io [ <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Mike and Jenna
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 10:39 AM
To: <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] competition
I have to agree with this. My wife asked to question the other day why use NVDA if I have to install addons to do the stuff I want to do then also have to keep them updated. I see this a lot with the disability place I work for part time. I have several elders after showing them nvda and jaws have chosen jaws do to the fact they don’t have to deal with addons.
From: <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> nvda@nvda.groups.io[ <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 8:15 PM
To: <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] competition
A lot of NVDA users won't ever know enough to know that there are add ons nor how to install them. You are free to remove any add ons you don't want and, for experienced users who understand the implications, a no add ons NVDA can be offered if it really matters, which I don't think it does. I'm not talking about including add on after add on in NVDA. I'm saying that some add ons should be included because you aren't serving a lot of blind people well by not doing so, meaning the large number, who will never use add ons they have to download and install. Instead of spending time and resources reinventing the wheel just to make it a part of core NVDA code, just include the add on.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: <mailto:gera1027@...> Gerardo Corripio
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 6:19 PM
To: <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] competition
What I've liked and am liking of the AddOns on NVDA is the ability to install those that suits are needs, thus NVDA should be pure as always, but with each of us adding the necessary AddOns for our daily use.
El 17/12/2017 a las 06:16 p.m., Rui Fontes escribió:
Sorry, Gene, but if some of the addons will be shipped with NVDA and set to run, they should stop being addons and start being part of NVDA core...
Addon, by definition, is a piece of software to execute a specific function that does not make part of the NVDA core...
Regards,
Rui Fontes
Às 00:07 de 18/12/2017, Gene escreveu:
NVDA doesn't have to adopt every popular feature of other screen-readers to compete. I don't have much opinion about whether this feature is implemented in NVDA directly or by an add on. It is a peripheral feature and not an actual screen-reader feature. It is a proper question whether NVDA development time and resources should be put into this project. And an add on wouldn't divert NVDA time and resources. However, when it comes to add ons, NVDA should do what Window-eyes used to do, not because Window-eyes does it, but because it serves users well, is logical and there is no reason of any substance not to do it.
Window-eyes used to accomplish a number of functions by having a number of what it pretentiously called apps, they were really scripts, but they were available to users as add ons and were shipped with Window-eyes and were set to run at the time of installation. Many users of whatever screen-reader they use will never learn enough to know anything about add ons. there are a number of add ons that should be incorporated into NVDA as addons that are downloaded and are running when NVDA is run.
If this were done, the major objection against making a feature an add on would be done away with. the objection is that a lot of people will never know about add ons and never use whatever is being discussed. If this objection were done away with by having many add ons be included in NVDA as running add ons at the time of download and installation or portable use, the whole question and argument about whether something should be an add on could be done away with.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: <mailto:lmddh50@...> Don H
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 4:16 PM
To: <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io> nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] competition
When it comes to the new screen shade function in Jaws 2018 and if NVDA
should also have the same function the main question is whether or not
NVDA is in competition with other screen readers in order to get more
users or is NVDA just a free screen reader for those who can't afford to
pay for a screen reader.
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erik burggraaf <erik@...>
Competition makes a lot of products better. I've never seen any evidence that this applies to screen readers though.
Windows is the only OS without built in access. Narrater is less and less useless all the time, but it's not up to the quality of what's built in to any other OS on the market.
Windows is the only system with a multi-screenreader approach. Lots of people tried to capitalize on android access, but the built in features are good enough to put paid and even free competitors out of business.
Competition never brought the prices down or the functionality up. Users certainly didn't benefit from the legal snyping of the big AT companies or the antitrust of microsoft building in it's own screen reader. Oddly enough, the same people who lobbied against microsoft building it's own screen reader also lobbie governments for exclusivity agreements to sell only one of the so called competing products. What do we call that when microsoft tries it? Antitrust. Huh... How do users benefit from the exclusivity agreements?
NVDA development isn't driven by competition with other screen readers. It's driven by the community through donations of code and money and other talents derived from the community.
Even when there were many products competing in the market, I didn't see any evidence that the competition improved the over all performance, stability, feature sets or monitary value of screen reader products in general.
Now that the actual number of windows screen readers is shrinking, and the number of viably accessible OS is growing, and the business models of windows screen readers are so dramatically different, I believe pmarket competition is even less important than it was five or ten yearss ago. I mean, what's the value of an exclusivity agreement to sell only one product when the next best competitor can be downloaded for free by any one with a computer?
Best,
Erik
On December 20, 2017 12:45:24 AM "Sarah k Alawami" <marrie12@...> wrote:
I'm actually up for competition. It will make each product better and better as time goes by.. I didn't want to use nvda in 2006 or 2007 when it came out as jaws at the time was the best. Now I won't touch jaws with a 10 foot pole. I tried to make my work switch but their excuse was that nvda was not meant for the word place and they would not consider it.
Take care
Yes. All you have to do is go into the prefferences menu under tools and add-ons. Tab to get add-ons and your default browser should open to the page.
On 12/18/2017 8:45 PM, Karim Lakhani wrote:
I'm not sure what language you are writing? What screen reader are you using voice over? The reason I didn't want to downloads is because I don't know how? When NVDA updates I get the notification and install it without worry about finding scripts, add no's or what ever window eye's use to call it. Does that make sense to you? $$$$ SKYPE: goldenace4 $$$$ Your reputation is in the hands of others. That's what a
reputation is. You can't control that. The only thing you
can control is your character.
- Wayne Walter Dyer (1940-)
Thir is on ly one NVDA. You want add-ons download them. What does VO have to do with it? Meanwhile as Kereme hits the nog in Canada again...
On 12/18/2017 8:22 PM, Karim Lakhani wrote:
Could we as NVDA users have the choice which version works the best for the individual? That way we can choose which version to down load? personally the voice over APP. with the Phone's out of the box it's great. People can jail break and all, so as the people who code NVDA, would have to be the persons who decides what is important. $$$$ SKYPE: goldenace4 $$$$ Your reputation is in the hands of others. That's what a
reputation is. You can't control that. The only thing you
can control is your character.
- Wayne Walter Dyer (1940-)
Karim, They are not included because Add-ons, as the name suggests, are optional. Integrating them into the installer would mean that the installer filesize would be inflated, resulting in a much bigger download for everyone.
On 19/12/2017 9:30 am, Karim Lakhani wrote:
Hi, Can someone explain why add are not included in the main install of the APP. If the add on's are useable by all the community, why not add them in the main install? I hope this doesn't come down to the amount of data you have, I know it will be cheaper then 1800.00 Some of us don't have the knowledge to accomplish these functions. I think it's like Elisa, she only gets smarter the more you use it. $$$$ SKYPE: goldenace4 $$$$ Your reputation is in the hands of others. That's what a
reputation is. You can't control that. The only thing you
can control is your character.
- Wayne Walter Dyer (1940-)
I have to agree with this. My wife asked to question the other day why use NVDA if I have to install addons to do the stuff I want to do then also have to keep them updated. I see this a lot with the disability place I work for part time. I have several elders after showing them nvda and jaws have chosen jaws do to the fact they don’t have to deal with addons.
A lot of NVDA users won't ever know enough to know that there are add ons nor how to install them. You are free to remove any add ons you don't want and, for experienced users who understand the implications, a no add ons NVDA can be offered if it really matters, which I don't think it does. I'm not talking about including add on after add on in NVDA. I'm saying that some add ons should be included because you aren't serving a lot of blind people well by not doing so, meaning the large number, who will never use add ons they have to download and install. Instead of spending time and resources reinventing the wheel just to make it a part of core NVDA code, just include the add on. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 6:19 PM Subject: Re: [nvda] competition What I've liked and am liking of the AddOns on NVDA is the ability to install those that suits are needs, thus NVDA should be pure as always, but with each of us adding the necessary AddOns for our daily use. El 17/12/2017 a las 06:16 p.m., Rui Fontes escribió: Sorry, Gene, but if some of the addons will be shipped with NVDA and set to run, they should stop being addons and start being part of NVDA core... Addon, by definition, is a piece of software to execute a specific function that does not make part of the NVDA core... Regards, Rui Fontes Às 00:07 de 18/12/2017, Gene escreveu: NVDA doesn't have to adopt every popular feature of other screen-readers to compete. I don't have much opinion about whether this feature is implemented in NVDA directly or by an add on. It is a peripheral feature and not an actual screen-reader feature. It is a proper question whether NVDA development time and resources should be put into this project. And an add on wouldn't divert NVDA time and resources. However, when it comes to add ons, NVDA should do what Window-eyes used to do, not because Window-eyes does it, but because it serves users well, is logical and there is no reason of any substance not to do it. Window-eyes used to accomplish a number of functions by having a number of what it pretentiously called apps, they were really scripts, but they were available to users as add ons and were shipped with Window-eyes and were set to run at the time of installation. Many users of whatever screen-reader they use will never learn enough to know anything about add ons. there are a number of add ons that should be incorporated into NVDA as addons that are downloaded and are running when NVDA is run. If this were done, the major objection against making a feature an add on would be done away with. the objection is that a lot of people will never know about add ons and never use whatever is being discussed. If this objection were done away with by having many add ons be included in NVDA as running add ons at the time of download and installation or portable use, the whole question and argument about whether something should be an add on could be done away with. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 4:16 PM Subject: [nvda] competition When it comes to the new screen shade function in Jaws 2018 and if NVDA
should also have the same function the main question is whether or not
NVDA is in competition with other screen readers in order to get more
users or is NVDA just a free screen reader for those who can't afford to
pay for a screen reader.
-- Gera Enviado desde Thunderbird
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|
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Lino Morales <linomorales001@...>
R more uuseless? Itss gotten better under WIN 10. Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: erik burggraafSent: Thursday, December 21, 2017 2:09 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.ioSubject: Re: [nvda] competition Competition makes a lot of products better. I've never seen any evidence that this applies to screen readers though. Windows is the only OS without built in access. Narrater is less and less useless all the time, but it's not up to the quality of what's built in to any other OS on the market. Windows is the only system with a multi-screenreader approach. Lots of people tried to capitalize on android access, but the built in features are good enough to put paid and even free competitors out of business. Competition never brought the prices down or the functionality up. Users certainly didn't benefit from the legal snyping of the big AT companies or the antitrust of microsoft building in it's own screen reader. Oddly enough, the same people who lobbied against microsoft building it's own screen reader also lobbie governments for exclusivity agreements to sell only one of the so called competing products. What do we call that when microsoft tries it? Antitrust. Huh... How do users benefit from the exclusivity agreements? NVDA development isn't driven by competition with other screen readers. It's driven by the community through donations of code and money and other talents derived from the community. Even when there were many products competing in the market, I didn't see any evidence that the competition improved the over all performance, stability, feature sets or monitary value of screen reader products in general. Now that the actual number of windows screen readers is shrinking, and the number of viably accessible OS is growing, and the business models of windows screen readers are so dramatically different, I believe pmarket competition is even less important than it was five or ten yearss ago. I mean, what's the value of an exclusivity agreement to sell only one product when the next best competitor can be downloaded for free by any one with a computer? Best, Erik On December 20, 2017 12:45:24 AM "Sarah k Alawami" <marrie12@...> wrote: I'm actually up for competition. It will make each product better and better as time goes by.. I didn't want to use nvda in 2006 or 2007 when it came out as jaws at the time was the best. Now I won't touch jaws with a 10 foot pole. I tried to make my work switch but their excuse was that nvda was not meant for the word place and they would not consider it. Take care
Yes. All you have to do is go into the prefferences menu under tools and add-ons. Tab to get add-ons and your default browser should open to the page. On 12/18/2017 8:45 PM, Karim Lakhani wrote: I'm not sure what language you are writing? What screen reader are you using voice over? The reason I didn't want to downloads is because I don't know how? When NVDA updates I get the notification and install it without worry about finding scripts, add no's or what ever window eye's use to call it. Does that make sense to you? EMAIL:karim.lakhani@... $$$$ SKYPE: goldenace4 $$$$ Your reputation is in the hands of others. That's what a
reputation is. You can't control that. The only thing you
can control is your character.
- Wayne Walter Dyer (1940-)
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Lino Morales
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 6:26 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] competition Thir is on ly one NVDA. You want add-ons download them. What does VO have to do with it? Meanwhile as Kereme hits the nog in Canada again... On 12/18/2017 8:22 PM, Karim Lakhani wrote: Could we as NVDA users have the choice which version works the best for the individual? That way we can choose which version to down load? personally the voice over APP. with the Phone's out of the box it's great. People can jail break and all, so as the people who code NVDA, would have to be the persons who decides what is important. EMAIL:karim.lakhani@... $$$$ SKYPE: goldenace4 $$$$ Your reputation is in the hands of others. That's what a
reputation is. You can't control that. The only thing you
can control is your character.
- Wayne Walter Dyer (1940-)
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sam Taylor
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 4:42 PM
To: nvda@...
Subject: Re: [nvda] competition Karim, They are not included because Add-ons, as the name suggests, are optional. Integrating them into the installer would mean that the installer filesize would be inflated, resulting in a much bigger download for everyone. On 19/12/2017 9:30 am, Karim Lakhani wrote: Hi, Can someone explain why add are not included in the main install of the APP. If the add on's are useable by all the community, why not add them in the main install? I hope this doesn't come down to the amount of data you have, I know it will be cheaper then 1800.00 Some of us don't have the knowledge to accomplish these functions. I think it's like Elisa, she only gets smarter the more you use it. EMAIL:karim.lakhani@... $$$$ SKYPE: goldenace4 $$$$ Your reputation is in the hands of others. That's what a
reputation is. You can't control that. The only thing you
can control is your character.
- Wayne Walter Dyer (1940-)
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Mike and Jenna
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 10:39 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] competition I have to agree with this. My wife asked to question the other day why use NVDA if I have to install addons to do the stuff I want to do then also have to keep them updated. I see this a lot with the disability place I work for part time. I have several elders after showing them nvda and jaws have chosen jaws do to the fact they don’t have to deal with addons. A lot of NVDA users won't ever know enough to know that there are add ons nor how to install them. You are free to remove any add ons you don't want and, for experienced users who understand the implications, a no add ons NVDA can be offered if it really matters, which I don't think it does. I'm not talking about including add on after add on in NVDA. I'm saying that some add ons should be included because you aren't serving a lot of blind people well by not doing so, meaning the large number, who will never use add ons they have to download and install. Instead of spending time and resources reinventing the wheel just to make it a part of core NVDA code, just include the add on. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 6:19 PM Subject: Re: [nvda] competition What I've liked and am liking of the AddOns on NVDA is the ability to install those that suits are needs, thus NVDA should be pure as always, but with each of us adding the necessary AddOns for our daily use. El 17/12/2017 a las 06:16 p.m., Rui Fontes escribió: Sorry, Gene, but if some of the addons will be shipped with NVDA and set to run, they should stop being addons and start being part of NVDA core... Addon, by definition, is a piece of software to execute a specific function that does not make part of the NVDA core... Regards, Rui Fontes Às 00:07 de 18/12/2017, Gene escreveu: NVDA doesn't have to adopt every popular feature of other screen-readers to compete. I don't have much opinion about whether this feature is implemented in NVDA directly or by an add on. It is a peripheral feature and not an actual screen-reader feature. It is a proper question whether NVDA development time and resources should be put into this project. And an add on wouldn't divert NVDA time and resources. However, when it comes to add ons, NVDA should do what Window-eyes used to do, not because Window-eyes does it, but because it serves users well, is logical and there is no reason of any substance not to do it. Window-eyes used to accomplish a number of functions by having a number of what it pretentiously called apps, they were really scripts, but they were available to users as add ons and were shipped with Window-eyes and were set to run at the time of installation. Many users of whatever screen-reader they use will never learn enough to know anything about add ons. there are a number of add ons that should be incorporated into NVDA as addons that are downloaded and are running when NVDA is run. If this were done, the major objection against making a feature an add on would be done away with. the objection is that a lot of people will never know about add ons and never use whatever is being discussed. If this objection were done away with by having many add ons be included in NVDA as running add ons at the time of download and installation or portable use, the whole question and argument about whether something should be an add on could be done away with. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 4:16 PM Subject: [nvda] competition When it comes to the new screen shade function in Jaws 2018 and if NVDA
should also have the same function the main question is whether or not
NVDA is in competition with other screen readers in order to get more
users or is NVDA just a free screen reader for those who can't afford to
pay for a screen reader.
-- Gera Enviado desde Thunderbird
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erik burggraaf <erik@...>
Hi, please double check. I'm pretty sure I wrote less useless. Narrater is supposedly getting better, though I myself haven't found it useful for anything except the windows setup screens and installing NVDA on a new computer. :-) When it does come up to spec it will prove my point about competition not improving the quality of screen readers.
In fact, it's fair to say that software designers and screen reader designers are increasingly being forced by microsoft to standardize. More and more of the underlying frameworks that control access are coming from microsoft. That being the case, it makes less and less difference which screen reader you use since they use all of the same guts. Why then pay enterprise prices when you can have NVDA, or narrater if it gets good enough.
Then again, windows seems to be headed toward cloud based OS workable across devices. So, will windows require it's own screen reader in three to five years, or will it be talkback and voiceover compatible?
Best,
Erik
On December 21, 2017 2:19:33 PM "Lino Morales" <linomorales001@...> wrote:
R more uuseless? Itss gotten better under WIN 10. Sent from Mail for Windows 10 Competition makes a lot of products better. I've never seen any evidence that this applies to screen readers though. Windows is the only OS without built in access. Narrater is less and less useless all the time, but it's not up to the quality of what's built in to any other OS on the market. Windows is the only system with a multi-screenreader approach. Lots of people tried to capitalize on android access, but the built in features are good enough to put paid and even free competitors out of business. Competition never brought the prices down or the functionality up. Users certainly didn't benefit from the legal snyping of the big AT companies or the antitrust of microsoft building in it's own screen reader. Oddly enough, the same people who lobbied against microsoft building it's own screen reader also lobbie governments for exclusivity agreements to sell only one of the so called competing products. What do we call that when microsoft tries it? Antitrust. Huh... How do users benefit from the exclusivity agreements? NVDA development isn't driven by competition with other screen readers. It's driven by the community through donations of code and money and other talents derived from the community. Even when there were many products competing in the market, I didn't see any evidence that the competition improved the over all performance, stability, feature sets or monitary value of screen reader products in general. Now that the actual number of windows screen readers is shrinking, and the number of viably accessible OS is growing, and the business models of windows screen readers are so dramatically different, I believe pmarket competition is even less important than it was five or ten yearss ago. I mean, what's the value of an exclusivity agreement to sell only one product when the next best competitor can be downloaded for free by any one with a computer? Best, Erik On December 20, 2017 12:45:24 AM "Sarah k Alawami" <marrie12@...> wrote: I'm actually up for competition. It will make each product better and better as time goes by.. I didn't want to use nvda in 2006 or 2007 when it came out as jaws at the time was the best. Now I won't touch jaws with a 10 foot pole. I tried to make my work switch but their excuse was that nvda was not meant for the word place and they would not consider it. Take care
Yes. All you have to do is go into the prefferences menu under tools and add-ons. Tab to get add-ons and your default browser should open to the page. On 12/18/2017 8:45 PM, Karim Lakhani wrote: I'm not sure what language you are writing? What screen reader are you using voice over? The reason I didn't want to downloads is because I don't know how? When NVDA updates I get the notification and install it without worry about finding scripts, add no's or what ever window eye's use to call it. Does that make sense to you? EMAIL:karim.lakhani@... $$$$ SKYPE: goldenace4 $$$$ Your reputation is in the hands of others. That's what a
reputation is. You can't control that. The only thing you
can control is your character.
- Wayne Walter Dyer (1940-)
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Lino Morales
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 6:26 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] competition Thir is on ly one NVDA. You want add-ons download them. What does VO have to do with it? Meanwhile as Kereme hits the nog in Canada again... On 12/18/2017 8:22 PM, Karim Lakhani wrote: Could we as NVDA users have the choice which version works the best for the individual? That way we can choose which version to down load? personally the voice over APP. with the Phone's out of the box it's great. People can jail break and all, so as the people who code NVDA, would have to be the persons who decides what is important. EMAIL:karim.lakhani@... $$$$ SKYPE: goldenace4 $$$$ Your reputation is in the hands of others. That's what a
reputation is. You can't control that. The only thing you
can control is your character.
- Wayne Walter Dyer (1940-)
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sam Taylor
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 4:42 PM
To: nvda@...
Subject: Re: [nvda] competition Karim, They are not included because Add-ons, as the name suggests, are optional. Integrating them into the installer would mean that the installer filesize would be inflated, resulting in a much bigger download for everyone. On 19/12/2017 9:30 am, Karim Lakhani wrote: Hi, Can someone explain why add are not included in the main install of the APP. If the add on's are useable by all the community, why not add them in the main install? I hope this doesn't come down to the amount of data you have, I know it will be cheaper then 1800.00 Some of us don't have the knowledge to accomplish these functions. I think it's like Elisa, she only gets smarter the more you use it. EMAIL:karimlakhani@... $$$$ SKYPE: goldenace4 $$$$ Your reputation is in the hands of others. That's what a
reputation is. You can't control that. The only thing you
can control is your character.
- Wayne Walter Dyer (1940-)
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Mike and Jenna
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 10:39 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] competition I have to agree with this. My wife asked to question the other day why use NVDA if I have to install addons to do the stuff I want to do then also have to keep them updated. I see this a lot with the disability place I work for part time. I have several elders after showing them nvda and jaws have chosen jaws do to the fact they don’t have to deal with addons. A lot of NVDA users won't ever know enough to know that there are add ons nor how to install them. You are free to remove any add ons you don't want and, for experienced users who understand the implications, a no add ons NVDA can be offered if it really matters, which I don't think it does I'm not talking about including add on after add on in NVDA. I'm saying that some add ons should be included because you aren't serving a lot of blind people well by not doing so, meaning the large number, who will never use add ons they have to download and install. Instead of spending time and resources reinventing the wheel just to make it a part of core NVDA code, just include the add on. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 6:19 PM Subject: Re: [nvda] competition What I've liked and am liking of the AddOns on NVDA is the ability to install those that suits are needs, thus NVDA should be pure as always, but with each of us adding the necessary AddOns for our daily use. El 17/12/2017 a las 06:16 p.m., Rui Fontes escribió: Sorry, Gene, but if some of the addons will be shipped with NVDA and set to run, they should stop being addons and start being part of NVDA core... Addon, by definition, is a piece of software to execute a specific function that does not make part of the NVDA core... Regards, Rui Fontes Às 00:07 de 18/12/2017, Gene escreveu: NVDA doesn't have to adopt every popular feature of other screen-readers to compete. I don't have much opinion about whether this feature is implemented in NVDA directly or by an add on. It is a peripheral feature and not an actual screen-reader feature. It is a proper question whether NVDA development time and resources should be put into this project. And an add on wouldn't divert NVDA time and resources. However, when it comes to add ons, NVDA should do what Window-eyes used to do, not because Window-eyes does it, but because it serves users well, is logical and there is no reason of any substance not to do it. Window-eyes used to accomplish a number of functions by having a number of what it pretentiously called apps, they were really scripts, but they were available to users as add ons and were shipped with Window-eyes and were set to run at the time of installation. Many users of whatever screen-reader they use will never learn enough to know anything about add ons. there are a number of add ons that should be incorporated into NVDA as addons that are downloaded and are running when NVDA is run. If this were done, the major objection against making a feature an add on would be done away with. the objection is that a lot of people will never know about add ons and never use whatever is being discussed. If this objection were done away with by having many add ons be included in NVDA as running add ons at the time of download and installation or portable use, the whole question and argument about whether something should be an add on could be done away with. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2017 4:16 PM Subject: [nvda] competition When it comes to the new screen shade function in Jaws 2018 and if NVDA
should also have the same function the main question is whether or not
NVDA is in competition with other screen readers in order to get more
users or is NVDA just a free screen reader for those who can't afford to
pay for a screen reader.
-- Gera Enviado desde Thunderbird
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