Customizing what keys are spoken when command keys are turned on?
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Jay Pellis
Hello all I’m wondering if someone can pass this on to NV Access as a feature suggestion? When speak command keys (NVDA+4) on the number row is toggled on, all keys such as control, shift, tab, windows, arrow keys, enter ETC are spoken. Would there be a way perhaps in the input gestures dialogue to customize what keys are spoken? For example I have many friends and clients that want to only hear the Enter key speak as they take a new line in a word document. Some may want just alt and tab to speak so they know they successfully pressed them and switched application windows. Is there already an add on for this by any chance? Any assistance is greatly appreciated, thanks! Regards Jay |
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Akash Kakkar
Hey Jay, Yes, it is a good suggestion for NVAccess. For now, you can use NVDAGlobalCommandsExtension addon for accomplishing this. I hope you'll find it useful. On 2/1/2023 11:47 PM, Jay Pellis wrote:
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bering.p
Hi.
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Try NVDAExtensionGlobalPlugin add-on. Best regards. Paul. Paul. Le 01/02/2023 19:17, Jay Pellis a
écrit :
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Gene
I haven't used the add-on to any extent and I don't currently have
it in NVDA. My concern is whether the add-on makes a lot of changes
people may not know about or want, that may cause responses they
don't anticipate. I'm not saying it shouldn't be used, but if it is
used for a specific purpose such as this, should various settings be
disabled so it only causes this one change? Can that be done?
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Gene On 2/1/2023 3:59 PM, bering.p wrote:
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On Wed, Feb 1, 2023 at 05:03 PM, Gene wrote:
My concern is whether the add-on makes a lot of changes people may not know about or want, that may cause responses they don't anticipate. I'm not saying it shouldn't be used, but if it is used for a specific purpose such as this, should various settings be disabled so it only causes this one change? Can that be done?- Gene, Not that I don't share your concerns at a high level, but it is absolutely, positively on the user to look at what an add-on does, and how, before installing it. Or, conversely, installing it and seeing whether any unwanted side effects ensue. Looking at the add-on's own documentation through the NVDA help menu (NVDA + N, H, D - for Add-Ons that are active and running, NVDA + N, H, N, N, Enter for disabled add-ons) is also something that needs to be standard practice, too. No add-on developer can anticipate the exact wants and needs of all potential users of their add-on(s). They should be able to expect that, when they've taken the time to write help documentation, the end user will take a look at it. The documentation that comes with the NVDAExtensionGlobalPlugin is both extensive and thorough. Your questions posed are answered in that documentation. If you haven't installed the add-on I would not expect you to know anything about the documentation, so that's not any part of my premise. But anyone who has is obligated to refer to it when they have questions, then ask if they can't find the answer. Yes, RTFM is a legitimate expectation. And if you don't know how to find it (though I documented how to check if it exists for add-ons you have) then ask. The add-on is a gift. -- Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 11 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 22621; Office 2016, Version 16.0.15726.20188, 32-bit It is much easier to be critical than to be correct. ~ Benjamin Disraeli, 1804-1881 |
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Jay Pellis
Hello all Thanks for the info and the help! That add on works great and it sure does offer a lot! As Brian mentioned documentation is very very good. Would be nice if this particular customization was built in to NVDA though since I think it would be very helpful. If someone could pass it on or let me know where I can do so, I’d appreciate it. Thanks Jay |
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There is a github repo for NVDA. Submit your bug or suggestion there. I’ved not used the add on at all, so can’t really comment.
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jay Pellis
Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2023 3:26 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] Customizing what keys are spoken when command keys are turned on?
Hello all Thanks for the info and the help! That add on works great and it sure does offer a lot! As Brian mentioned documentation is very very good. Would be nice if this particular customization was built in to NVDA though since I think it would be very helpful. If someone could pass it on or let me know where I can do so, I’d appreciate it. Thanks Jay -- ---------- Sarah Alawami, owner of flying Blind. Visit my website to read my story. Windows 11 22H2 (x64) build 22621.963 NVDA Version: 2022.3.3 Microsoft 365 MSO (Version 2211 Build 16.0.15831.20098) 64-bit |
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Jay,
I've written tutorials (and created MS-Word templates, if one wishes to use those) for those new to GitHub and the creation of an NVDA bug/issue or a feature request. Creating an Issue in GitHub for NVDA MS-Word Fillable Form for an NVDA Bug Report Including Pre and Post Filling-Out Instructions MS-Word Fillable Form for an NVDA Bug Report Including Only Post Filling-Out Instructions NVDA_Feature_Request_Form_Template.dotx --Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 11 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 22621; Office 2016, Version 16.0.15726.20188, 32-bit It is much easier to be critical than to be correct. ~ Benjamin Disraeli, 1804-1881 |
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Gene
I thought there would probably already be a ticket filed for this
issue and there is. Speak command keys has been around for so long
and has had this glaring inadequacy since it has been. The issue is
closed but you can still file comments on closed issues. I note
with interest that the issue has only five comments.
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https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/5484 Gene On 2/1/2023 7:11 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
Jay, |
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Jay Pellis
Hi Gene Thanks for the info, I’ll leave a comment right away. Regards Jay
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2023 7:43 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] Customizing what keys are spoken when command keys are turned on?
I thought there would probably already be a ticket filed for this issue and there is. Speak command keys has been around for so long and has had this glaring inadequacy since it has been. The issue is closed but you can still file comments on closed issues. I note with interest that the issue has only five comments. On 2/1/2023 7:11 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
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On Wed, Feb 1, 2023 at 08:43 PM, Gene wrote:
I thought there would probably already be a ticket filed for this issue and there is.- But since it is closed, with in-depth discussion if you read it, commenting on it is not likely to result in anything else occurring. My reading of Jay Pellis's message, #103218, is that he'd like to see the features of NVDAGlobalCommandsExtension made a part of the NVDA core code, ultimately. That would be a new feature request. -- Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 11 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 22621; Office 2016, Version 16.0.15726.20188, 32-bit It is much easier to be critical than to be correct. ~ Benjamin Disraeli, 1804-1881 |
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Gene
But if you follow that logic, you could open new discussions asking
that any add-on functionality be added to NVDA even if the same
functionality had been discussed in a previous ticket. If, for
example, there is a ticket that says, make the system tray dialog,
available in other screen-readers available in NVdA, if you start a
new ticket that says, incorporate the screen-reader functionality
available in the screen-reader dialog add-on into NVDA, you are
asking for the same functionality as was already discussed.
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Gene On 2/1/2023 7:51 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Wed, Feb 1, 2023 at 08:43 PM, Gene wrote: |
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On Wed, Feb 1, 2023 at 09:13 PM, Gene wrote:
But if you follow that logic, you could open new discussions asking that any add-on functionality be added to NVDA even if the same functionality had been discussed in a previous ticket.- If that ticket has been closed, that's precisely what I would do. And I'd include a reference to that other ticket in my new one. It's up to the project managers whether the old one gets resurrected and integrated with the new one (or vice versa). A closed ticket is just that - closed. There are many years-old tickets that remain open, and commenting on those is something I've done because they are open. -- Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 11 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 22621; Office 2016, Version 16.0.15726.20188, 32-bit It is much easier to be critical than to be correct. ~ Benjamin Disraeli, 1804-1881 |
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Hi, Regarding transforming add-on features into an NVDA feature (pull requests): this requires some thought as the way the add-on brings a feature to life may or may not be compatible with actual NVDA internals, along with what the add-on should do once it detects its own feature is part of NVDA. Windows App Essentials add-on is a good example of this process (I wish I could use other add-ons as examples). To bring Jay's request to life, one would tell NVDA to detect virtual key codes and other keyboard support mechanisms, determine which group the key code falls under, and then tell NVDA to announce them or not. Making the picture a bit complicated is that keyboard commands can be emulated from other input sources such as braille displays, and NVDA must be willing to detect them. Cheers, Joseph |
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On Wed, Feb 1, 2023 at 10:16 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:
To bring Jay's request to life, one would tell NVDA to detect virtual key codes and other keyboard support mechanisms, determine which group the key code falls under, and then tell NVDA to announce them or not.- But, Joseph, it's not really up to end users (nor even possible for most of them, including me) to make that kind of assessment. Feature requests are just that - requests. Those in the know and who are actually developing NVDA make the ultimate decisions in regard to feasibility. I don't think the day is anywhere near where there is a flood of frivolous feature requests or issue/bug reports. Hearing from users is generally a good thing, but they need to realize that they may, or may not, see the changes they want actually occur. They might also get a reply along the lines of, "It's not a bug, it's a feature," as has been made regarding context-specificity of the input gestures dialog. But making one's desires known in the way dictated by a Feature Request, which is fairly structured and rigorous, if not at the "down at the programming level," should be encouraged. -- Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 11 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 22621; Office 2016, Version 16.0.15726.20188, 32-bit It is much easier to be critical than to be correct. ~ Benjamin Disraeli, 1804-1881 |
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Cyrille
Hello
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I want to support and develop what Brian writes. 1. Do not comment in closed ticket, especially if they are closed for a long time. Otherwise, there is a high probability that your comment will never be read nor taken into account. 2. You can open a ticket doing the same request as a previously closed ticket. But in this case, you should give reasons why your new ticket should be considered valid (i.e. remain open) and not be closed the same way as the old one. These reasons could be one or more of these: - You consider that the reason why the old ticket has been closed is invalid - The problem in the old ticket is still present and is discussed by many people outside GitHub, e.g. provide the link to this discussion on groups.io. - The feature already exists elsewhere and is used by people. E.g. in our example, we can argue that the feature is already used with satisfaction by people in NVDAGlobalCommandsExtension; I also remember a similar feature in Jaws. 3. We can consider that NVAccess may change their mind on what has already been expressed. In this case, you could ask them nicely to reconsider their choices. This should not be done two weeks after a ticket has been closed. But in our case, the ticket has been closed for many years which seems a reasonable time. Also, Jamie who was answer on behalf of NVAccess is not part of this organization for a long time now. 4. In your new ticket put a reference to the old ticket indicating that you have read it but that you have new ideas or arguments to share. Cheers, Cyrille On Thu, Feb 2, 2023 at 03:33 AM, Brian Vogel wrote: On Wed, Feb 1, 2023 at 09:13 PM, Gene wrote: |
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Cyrille
Hi Brian
You write:
This cannot be standard practice since you have probably installed the add-on addonHelp to be able to see the documentation this way. The standard practice to see add-on documentation would be:
- NVDA+N, T, A (and Enter if needed) to open "Add-ons Manager" dialog - Select the addon you want to see the documentation in the list - Alt+H to press the "Add-on help" button Cheers, Cyrille On Wed, Feb 1, 2023 at 11:35 PM, Brian Vogel wrote: On Wed, Feb 1, 2023 at 05:03 PM, Gene wrote: |
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On Thu, Feb 2, 2023 at 03:37 AM, Cyrille wrote:
This cannot be standard practice since you have probably installed the add-on addonHelp to be able to see the documentation this way. - Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 11 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 22621; Office 2016, Version 16.0.15726.20188, 32-bit It is much easier to be critical than to be correct. ~ Benjamin Disraeli, 1804-1881 |
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Gene
While people should do all sorts of things, a lot of people don't,
no matter what is said. Just as there are warnings that might seem
ridiculous in electrical appliance manuals, such as don't put this
appliance in water, so, in certain circumstances, I think a comment
should be included when discussing an add-on.
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This add-on is very different from the great majority. Most add-ons affect how you can use one program or affect one function, such as the time command. Since this add-on makes so many changes, I don't see anything wrong with someone recommending it for a specific purpose to say, this ad-on makes many changes in how Windows and Windows programs function. Look at the information on the web site so you understand what it does by default before you install it. If this add-on does little or nothing by default when installed, such a warning may not matter. I'd like it to be clarified if the add-on makes a lot of changes by default. If so, then I thing a sentence such as I am discussing should be included. Gene On 2/2/2023 9:19 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Thu, Feb 2, 2023 at 03:37 AM, Cyrille wrote: |
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Travis Siegel
I haven't looked at the code for the keys spoken item in NVDA, but it should be a simple matter to create something that allows configuration right down to the key level of special keys.
I'd have to look up how to do it, since I've not had to use bit manipulation in python, but I'd be surprised if it didn't exist. Each byte has 8 bits. One bit each for left/right control, left/right shift, and left/right alt, one for enter, and one for tab would cover the eight bits in a single byte. Then when one of those keys are pressed, check the bitmap, see if that one is turned on, if so, speak the key. You'd of course have to change the GUI to match in the preferences, so folks could set whether they wanted the keys separated in the first place, some don't care if it's the left or the right one, but some would. By doing that also would allow more flexibility when it comes to hotkeys, since NVDA could check the left/right configuration to see if it should trigger based on what the user selected in their gesture selections. If additional keys are required to be tracked, it's simple enough to keep adding bytes to the keymap to accommodate the extra keys. Then, each person could have their configuration setup exactly how they wished without having to lump multiple keys into a category with others. |
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