Difficulty accessing links in confidential E-mails with NVDA


Louise Pfau
 

Hi.  I’ve been having difficulty accessing links in confidential E-mails with NVDA.  JAWS doesn’t seem to have a problem.  I have to try to activate the links multiple times before they open correctly.  Before that, a browser window pops up saying something like “http://resedential”, and mentions Internet Explorer as the browser being opened, but Edge is my default browser.  I can’t provide an example because they are in confidential E-mails.  Has anyone come across this?
 
Thanks,
 
Louise


 

I presume you're using the Outlook email client which, for some reason, is still "married to" IE for opening links at this time.  This was recently discussed, but I don't think on this group, as a spin-off of the removal of IE next June.  Microsoft is going to have to tweak Outlook either to be "married to" Edge or to use whatever the user has set as the default browser.

Although I know you cannot share confidential material in public.  A mock up of one of these where the text is a random sentence or two and where you substitute the real links with something like http://washingtonpost.com would go a long way toward trying to figure out what's going on.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.  The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression, which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the clearest indicator of who you are.

      ~ Brian Vogel

 


Jackie
 

Actually, I've been having difficulties w/some links in NVDA for quite
some time now. I often have to use object navigation in order to
activate them. In most cases, it seems as though there are 2 parts, a
"jump" and an activate portion, both of which need to be clicked in
order to activate the link. A little different from Louise's problem,
though perhaps a bit more widely applicable.

On 5/25/21, Brian Vogel <britechguy@gmail.com> wrote:
I presume you're using the Outlook email client which, for some reason, is
still "married to" IE for opening links at this time.  This was recently
discussed, but I don't think on this group, as a spin-off of the removal of
IE next June.  Microsoft is going to have to tweak Outlook either to be
"married to" Edge or to use whatever the user has set as the default
browser.

Although I know you cannot share confidential material in public.  A mock up
of one of these where the text is a random sentence or two and where you
substitute the real links with something like http://washingtonpost.com
would go a long way toward trying to figure out what's going on.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.
The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression,
which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the
clearest indicator of who you are.

~ Brian Vogel





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Arlene
 

              

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Brian Vogel
Sent: May 25, 2021 12:02 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Difficulty accessing links in confidential E-mails with NVDA

 

I presume you're using the Outlook email client which, for some reason, is still "married to" IE for opening links at this time.  This was recently discussed, but I don't think on this group, as a spin-off of the removal of IE next June.  Microsoft is going to have to tweak Outlook either to be "married to" Edge or to use whatever the user has set as the default browser.

Although I know you cannot share confidential material in public.  A mock up of one of these where the text is a random sentence or two and where you substitute the real links with something like http://washingtonpost.com would go a long way toward trying to figure out what's going on.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.  The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression, which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the clearest indicator of who you are.

      ~ Brian Vogel

 

 


Louise Pfau
 

I am not using Outlook, but I’m using software that is no longer supported.  I didn’t mention that due to the out-of support rule.  I just tried again with another link, and got the message “Internet Explorer: Address not valid”.
 
Louise


 

On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 04:53 PM, Louise Pfau wrote:
I am not using Outlook, but I’m using software that is no longer supported.  I didn’t mention that due to the out-of support rule. 
-
And that, right there, could (note, I didn't say is, but very well could) be your problem.  I used to tell people it was OK to use Windows Live Mail 2012 for a number of years after it went out of support, because it wasn't being cranky and didn't have glaring security holes like Outlook Express did.  But, suddenly, it did start getting cranky for me.  It still isn't, at last report, for some others.

I will say that in-depth discussion of out-of-support software is forbidden on this group.  But that's a completely different thing than giving accurate information about the operating environment you've got.  The response, and not just from myself, might very well be, "Get rid of {insert piece of software here}," from other people who've experienced the same or similar issues.

This is the very reason why using out-of-support software is generally a bad idea.  You really don't know when or how it might eventually break, and if it does, it's not going to be fixed.

It's also one of the reasons I harp on people NOT to use POP3 email access.  It's an absolute cinch to ditch one email client for another if you're using IMAP or MS-Exchange access protocols because everything will just "automagically" reappear in any and all other clients you set up, even on the same machine.  The same is not true of POP3 in its usual default configurations (there are several variants).

My guess, based on your stated error message, is that the actual URL is somehow "malformed" when being passed to IE by your email client.  That is, provided you are absolutely certain it is a valid address, which I'm assuming you are.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.  The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression, which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the clearest indicator of who you are.

      ~ Brian Vogel

 


Louise Pfau
 

I’ve tried to cover all of the points without quoting the whole message.  All right, I’m using Windows Live Mail 2012, but I thought we weren’t supposed to mention out-of-support software, nor am I having any other issues with it.  I’m using it with IMAP, because my ISP stopped using POP3 when they migrated their interface over to the Google platform.  I’m looking into using Thunderbird, but I was told that I couldn’t import my Windows Live Mail contacts and folders into it with the assistance of Microsoft Accessibility because Windows Live Mail was no longer supported and there was no function to do so.  They recommended I use Outlook and set up an Outlook E-mail, which I don’t need because I have an E-mail address from my ISP in addition to a gmail address.    I think I may have mentioned this in an earlier topic, although I don’t recall if there was a satisfactory resolution.  I don’t know why the links are indicating that they are opening with an invalid address (I’m accessing the links directly from within the E-mail message )in Internet Explorer when Edge is my default browser.
 
Thanks,
 
Louise


 

Louise,

        I am not going to get into export/import functions from any email client, supported or not, here because it's not in any way NVDA related.  That being said, I am happy to discuss this in depth on the Chat Subgroup.  You can absolutely export contacts from WLM and import them into other e-mail clients.  I can't speak to your folders not knowing whether they're local folders or IMAP folders.

         I tried to explain that Outlook, and I'm presuming, though not certain, WLM 2012, is currently "hard coded" to use IE for opening links, period, end of sentence.  If you don't believe me, take a look at this comment from another technician when the announcement that IE was being discontinued came out:  https://www.technibble.com/forums/threads/ie-being-removed-from-win-10-20h2-and-later-effective-june-15th-2022.86915/post-719341.  It doesn't matter what your default browser under Windows 10 happens to be, IE will be used by Outlook, and given that's the case through Outlook 365, I'm willing to take a leap of faith it is in WLM 2012, which hasn't been touched in years, too.

           In the end, all probabilities are that this is not an NVDA issue.  It's not impossible, but if I were placing bets, that's not where I'd place 'em as far as "who's the guilty party."

            This topic really needs to be taken to the Chat Subgroup if it is to be continued.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.  The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression, which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the clearest indicator of who you are.

      ~ Brian Vogel

 


Gene
 

People should really make an issue about this sort of thing in some way with Microsoft.  Not being supported has nothing to do with this sort of thing.  You aren’t using the program in any way that means anything.  You are exporting the address book into a CSV file, then importing it into Thunderbird.  Yes, Windows Live Mail isn’t supported but this is a universal ability of e-mail programs, to export messages into a CSV file and there are times when people using Outlook can’t directly import from programs and the CSV method is used.  I consider this we don’t support it so you can’t export your address book sort of response to be indefensible.  In your case and who knows how many others, it means that you were thinking of using a program you didn’t want to use for no justifiable reason. 
 
Don’t believe what you hear from technical support staff in cases where you think there might be reason to doubt unless you have reason to do so.  Don’t just not believe it either.  Be skeptical and check in good lists. 
 
You can use Thunderbird if you wish.  I exported contacts from Windows Live Mail and imported them into Thunderbird as I described. 
 
However, I doubt the links problem has anything to do with a program not being supported and not being able to do something as it ages.  The same thing happens to me with certain links in a newsletter I get.  there are usually two links to a story and they are often evidently different since one causes this result and the other doesn’t.  I don’t recall if I tried this in Thunderbbird with such a link but I will.  It may work, but I doubt it.
 
Further, I wouldn’t change e-mail programs just because of a problem affecting this e-mail and not being a general problem. 
 
I don’t know about other people’s machines, but on my machine, it is so much faster for messages to be available as I move through the message list that I save perhaps two wasted seconds using Windows Live Mail per message. 
 
I’ll tell you how I get Windows Live Mail to be so efficient if you wish but that is beyond the scope of the current message.  I’ll just say that, using my method, I can read a message, or however much I want of one, move to the next message, and just about instantly after moving to it, begin reading it.  That’s why I keep using Windows Live mail.  I don’t want the annoyance of waiting for each message to open.  I get perhaps one-hundred fifty messages a day.  Aside from the annoyance, if I go through fifteen messages, I’ve wasted thirty seconds, one minute for thirty.  I’ll leave it as an exercise for the student to determine how much time is wasted when going through one-hundred fifty messages.
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2021 5:11 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Difficulty accessing links in confidential E-mails with NVDA
 
I’ve tried to cover all of the points without quoting the whole message.  All right, I’m using Windows Live Mail 2012, but I thought we weren’t supposed to mention out-of-support software, nor am I having any other issues with it.  I’m using it with IMAP, because my ISP stopped using POP3 when they migrated their interface over to the Google platform.  I’m looking into using Thunderbird, but I was told that I couldn’t import my Windows Live Mail contacts and folders into it with the assistance of Microsoft Accessibility because Windows Live Mail was no longer supported and there was no function to do so.  They recommended I use Outlook and set up an Outlook E-mail, which I don’t need because I have an E-mail address from my ISP in addition to a gmail address.    I think I may have mentioned this in an earlier topic, although I don’t recall if there was a satisfactory resolution.  I don’t know why the links are indicating that they are opening with an invalid address (I’m accessing the links directly from within the E-mail message )in Internet Explorer when Edge is my default browser.
 
Thanks,
 
Louise


Gene
 

But isn’t it the case that outside of this newsletter, your default browser opens?  Mine almost always does.
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2021 3:53 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Difficulty accessing links in confidential E-mails with NVDA
 
I am not using Outlook, but I’m using software that is no longer supported.  I didn’t mention that due to the out-of support rule.  I just tried again with another link, and got the message “Internet Explorer: Address not valid”.
 
Louise


 

On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 08:15 PM, Gene wrote:
Don’t believe what you hear from technical support staff in cases where you think there might be reason to doubt unless you have reason to do so.  Don’t just not believe it either.  Be skeptical and check in good lists. 
-
Amen to that!!

I actually don't have any problem with any given tech support organization saying, "We don't/won't/can't do that, as the software is no longer supported," which is an entirely different matter from saying, "It cannot be done."

And many tech support personnel have no expertise in the things they're supporting, but are using scripts.  And when that's the case, if they lack any real-world expertise, you can get all sorts of incorrect answers due to ignorance.  Why most organizations seem to believe that a support tech saying, "I don't know," is the worst possible thing eludes me.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.  The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression, which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the clearest indicator of who you are.

      ~ Brian Vogel

 


Gene
 

I won’t discuss this further on this list, though I will on the chat list if the subject is discussed there. 
 
I wanted to report something very interesting.  The newsletter I discussed appears to do a very odd thing:
 
In Windows Live Mail, there is a link that opens Internet Explorer with a bad address message.  The other links I tested all open in my default browser.
But when I test the same e-mail in thunderbirdd the title that was shown as a link and that leads to the incorrect address message being displayed in Internet explorer is not shown as a link.  it appears displayed as plain text.
 
I have no idea if this has relevance to your probloem but bbased on the previous discussion I would suggest trying a different e-mail program, forwarding the message to yourself, and seeing if the links work properly.  I have no idea what will happen.
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Gene
Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2021 8:06 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Difficulty accessing links in confidential E-mails with NVDA
 
But isn’t it the case that outside of this newsletter, your default browser opens?  Mine almost always does.
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2021 3:53 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Difficulty accessing links in confidential E-mails with NVDA
 
I am not using Outlook, but I’m using software that is no longer supported.  I didn’t mention that due to the out-of support rule.  I just tried again with another link, and got the message “Internet Explorer: Address not valid”.
 
Louise


Gene
 

I’ve found links in a newsletter I get that cause the address not valid message to come up in Internet Explorer even though it isn’t my default browser.
 
This may be an NVDA issue.  Perhaps this can nbe tested if I forward the newsletter to those who want to test.
 
On links where I get this message, the problem appears to be that browse mode isn’t lining up with the link properly.  I’m not sure how this might cause the problem if it is the cause.  moving with the up and down arrow keys to the link doesn’t solve the problem.  Using k doesn’t solve it.  But tabbing does, at least these things appear to be true in the very small amount of testing I’ve  done.  It appears to me that tabbing is the most reliable way to be sure you are on a link and that appears to be the case here.
 
I would be very curious to see if the person with the problem links in the confidential newsletter can successfully follow them if she tabs to the link she wants.
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
 
 
From: Gene
Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2021 8:38 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Difficulty accessing links in confidential E-mails with NVDA
 
I won’t discuss this further on this list, though I will on the chat list if the subject is discussed there. 
 
I wanted to report something very interesting.  The newsletter I discussed appears to do a very odd thing:
 
In Windows Live Mail, there is a link that opens Internet Explorer with a bad address message.  The other links I tested all open in my default browser.
But when I test the same e-mail in thunderbirdd the title that was shown as a link and that leads to the incorrect address message being displayed in Internet explorer is not shown as a link.  it appears displayed as plain text.
 
I have no idea if this has relevance to your probloem but bbased on the previous discussion I would suggest trying a different e-mail program, forwarding the message to yourself, and seeing if the links work properly.  I have no idea what will happen.
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Gene
Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2021 8:06 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Difficulty accessing links in confidential E-mails with NVDA
 
But isn’t it the case that outside of this newsletter, your default browser opens?  Mine almost always does.
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2021 3:53 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Difficulty accessing links in confidential E-mails with NVDA
 
I am not using Outlook, but I’m using software that is no longer supported.  I didn’t mention that due to the out-of support rule.  I just tried again with another link, and got the message “Internet Explorer: Address not valid”.
 
Louise


Gene
 

I should clarify one point:
In a previous message, I said I would discuss the probloem on the chat list.  That was before I got suggestive evidence that the problem may be an NVDA problem.  It is for that reason that I continued to discuss it here.
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2021 10:28 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Difficulty accessing links in confidential E-mails with NVDA
 
I’ve found links in a newsletter I get that cause the address not valid message to come up in Internet Explorer even though it isn’t my default browser.
 
This may be an NVDA issue.  Perhaps this can nbe tested if I forward the newsletter to those who want to test.
 
On links where I get this message, the problem appears to be that browse mode isn’t lining up with the link properly.  I’m not sure how this might cause the problem if it is the cause.  moving with the up and down arrow keys to the link doesn’t solve the problem.  Using k doesn’t solve it.  But tabbing does, at least these things appear to be true in the very small amount of testing I’ve  done.  It appears to me that tabbing is the most reliable way to be sure you are on a link and that appears to be the case here.
 
I would be very curious to see if the person with the problem links in the confidential newsletter can successfully follow them if she tabs to the link she wants.
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----
 
 
From: Gene
Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2021 8:38 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Difficulty accessing links in confidential E-mails with NVDA
 
I won’t discuss this further on this list, though I will on the chat list if the subject is discussed there. 
 
I wanted to report something very interesting.  The newsletter I discussed appears to do a very odd thing:
 
In Windows Live Mail, there is a link that opens Internet Explorer with a bad address message.  The other links I tested all open in my default browser.
But when I test the same e-mail in thunderbirdd the title that was shown as a link and that leads to the incorrect address message being displayed in Internet explorer is not shown as a link.  it appears displayed as plain text.
 
I have no idea if this has relevance to your probloem but bbased on the previous discussion I would suggest trying a different e-mail program, forwarding the message to yourself, and seeing if the links work properly.  I have no idea what will happen.
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Gene
Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2021 8:06 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Difficulty accessing links in confidential E-mails with NVDA
 
But isn’t it the case that outside of this newsletter, your default browser opens?  Mine almost always does.
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2021 3:53 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Difficulty accessing links in confidential E-mails with NVDA
 
I am not using Outlook, but I’m using software that is no longer supported.  I didn’t mention that due to the out-of support rule.  I just tried again with another link, and got the message “Internet Explorer: Address not valid”.
 
Louise


Louise Pfau
 

I also get the error message when I use the “Elements list” dialog, but the error doesn’t happen when I use TAB to navigate to the link.  That’s irritating when there are lots of links to navigate through.
 
Thanks,
 
Louise


Gene
 

Are you saying you know the link you are looking for?  If so, you can use the same find command you use when browsing since you are using browse mode when reading e-mail.  or I should say, whhen I think its very likely you are using browse mode to read e-mail. 
 
After you get to the link, try shift tabbing once or twice then tabbing once or twice to the link.  let us know if that method works well.  there are some instances when browse mode doesn’t line up properly with where you are on the underlying page and when you tab, you are nowhere near the link even if browse mode is on it.
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2021 12:58 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Difficulty accessing links in confidential E-mails with NVDA
 
I also get the error message when I use the “Elements list” dialog, but the error doesn’t happen when I use TAB to navigate to the link.  That’s irritating when there are lots of links to navigate through.
 
Thanks,
 
Louise


 

On Sat, May 29, 2021 at 01:58 PM, Louise Pfau wrote:
[Being forced to use Tab rather than the elements list.] That’s irritating when there are lots of links to navigate through.
-
Just remember you also have the option to use the browsing shortcut, K, to go from link to link to link when you do not care whether the link has been previously visited (V) or unvisited (U).

There's more than one way to limit oneself to specific elements.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.  The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression, which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the clearest indicator of who you are.

      ~ Brian Vogel