Topics

Donation Too nerve wracking

 

On Mon, Feb 10, 2020 at 04:43 PM, Jackie wrote:
Precisely, especially for a *donation* page. That is the sort of thing you wanna make easy peezy lemon squeezy.
The problem is that even what's considered easy changes.  I am now completely accustomed to paying for things by PayPal where I have to leave a page to step through the PayPal process then come back.  If a donation to NVDA doesn't actually automatically redirect back to NVAccess right into the download flow where you were, that is an implementation problem that must (or at least should, if you're smart) be fixed.

But a great deal of what was offered in the message that started this topic also clearly indicates user error.  And any time this is the case, unless the user in question is willing to acknowledge that as part of the solution you're essentially stymied no matter what you do.

I participate on many technology forums, and I see time and again gross user errors that the subject matter experts promptly identify as such, and generally without "judgment" other than it is a user error.  Many seem to take this as a personal affront rather than recognizing we all can and do make mistakes and when someone identifies that this is occurring, and that you had ought to try {insert instructions here}, that should be met with gratitude, not resistance nor throwing accusations at those trying to assist.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 

James Bentley
 

I’m not certain as to who is saying the phrase, “kiss of death” but I agree.

 

It took me well over a year to finally finally set up a small monthly donation to NVDA.  I wonder how many dollars are not getting where they need to go because of a combination of persons with less PC skills and apparently, a web designer or, at least the form designer also having less skills.

 

We need NVDA to grow world wide so more persons will have free access to NVDA.

 

I use Jaws and Narrator too but, NVDA needs to prosper.  I hope some one will fix this unnecessary complicated process.

 

Regards,

 

James B

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2020 3:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Donation Too nerve wracking

 

On Mon, Feb 10, 2020 at 04:34 PM, Jackie wrote:

The problem is that too many, I think assume a lack of skill, when at least part of the problem may indeed be due to implementation.

And, in this case, it seems to be a combination of both, which is often the absolute kiss of death.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 

Tyler Spivey
 

Please explain how the form is badly designed. It can't be simpler.

You need to select what type of donation you want. Either you have a set of radio buttons on the Download page, or a set of buttons on the donate page.


On 2/10/2020 2:46 PM, James Bentley wrote:

I’m not certain as to who is saying the phrase, “kiss of death” but I agree.

 

It took me well over a year to finally finally set up a small monthly donation to NVDA.  I wonder how many dollars are not getting where they need to go because of a combination of persons with less PC skills and apparently, a web designer or, at least the form designer also having less skills.

 

We need NVDA to grow world wide so more persons will have free access to NVDA.

 

I use Jaws and Narrator too but, NVDA needs to prosper.  I hope some one will fix this unnecessary complicated process.

 

Regards,

 

James B

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2020 3:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Donation Too nerve wracking

 

On Mon, Feb 10, 2020 at 04:34 PM, Jackie wrote:

The problem is that too many, I think assume a lack of skill, when at least part of the problem may indeed be due to implementation.

And, in this case, it seems to be a combination of both, which is often the absolute kiss of death.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 

Sky Mundell
 

Yes I agree. NVDA does need to grow and prosper worldwide.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of James Bentley
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2020 2:46 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Donation Too nerve wracking

 

I’m not certain as to who is saying the phrase, “kiss of death” but I agree.

 

It took me well over a year to finally finally set up a small monthly donation to NVDA.  I wonder how many dollars are not getting where they need to go because of a combination of persons with less PC skills and apparently, a web designer or, at least the form designer also having less skills.

 

We need NVDA to grow world wide so more persons will have free access to NVDA.

 

I use Jaws and Narrator too but, NVDA needs to prosper.  I hope some one will fix this unnecessary complicated process.

 

Regards,

 

James B

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2020 3:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Donation Too nerve wracking

 

On Mon, Feb 10, 2020 at 04:34 PM, Jackie wrote:

The problem is that too many, I think assume a lack of skill, when at least part of the problem may indeed be due to implementation.

And, in this case, it seems to be a combination of both, which is often the absolute kiss of death.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 

 

On Mon, Feb 10, 2020 at 05:58 PM, Tyler Spivey wrote:
Please explain how the form is badly designed.
Uh, those having difficulty would not be able to clearly articulate what's wrong, as there clearly exists confusion.

I can't say exactly where the sticking point happens to be, but it's clearly there for enough users that it should be a concern.  This doesn't seem to be purely a problem of needing to "dumb down" or simplify the form.  Something else is at work here.

And the above comes from someone who agrees with you that the radio buttons aren't where the problem lies.  But something's off, and it's worth someone taking the time to get in touch with those having the issue to watch what it is they're doing so that the sticking point(s) can be identified.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 

James Bentley
 

Its been so long and frustrating since  I finally stumbled through the process that I no longer remember.  And, I’m glad I forgot.

 

I have no problems at Amazon or Walmart or dozens of other sites so I stand by my opinion that the form/site could be easier.  Especially since more than a few people are having problems.

 

I agree with the lister who said that a donation page should be easier.

 

James B

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tyler Spivey
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2020 4:58 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Donation Too nerve wracking

 

Please explain how the form is badly designed. It can't be simpler.

You need to select what type of donation you want. Either you have a set of radio buttons on the Download page, or a set of buttons on the donate page.

 

On 2/10/2020 2:46 PM, James Bentley wrote:

I’m not certain as to who is saying the phrase, “kiss of death” but I agree.

 

It took me well over a year to finally finally set up a small monthly donation to NVDA.  I wonder how many dollars are not getting where they need to go because of a combination of persons with less PC skills and apparently, a web designer or, at least the form designer also having less skills.

 

We need NVDA to grow world wide so more persons will have free access to NVDA.

 

I use Jaws and Narrator too but, NVDA needs to prosper.  I hope some one will fix this unnecessary complicated process.

 

Regards,

 

James B

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2020 3:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Donation Too nerve wracking

 

On Mon, Feb 10, 2020 at 04:34 PM, Jackie wrote:

The problem is that too many, I think assume a lack of skill, when at least part of the problem may indeed be due to implementation.

And, in this case, it seems to be a combination of both, which is often the absolute kiss of death.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 

hurrikennyandopo ...
 

if any where it is more on the second page I was looking at doing a lets say one off donation and on the second one in the edit area it would not let me change it from 200 to what ever I wanted to donate. Most people would stop there.


It seemed to do it from the nvaccess website for donations and from nvda for donations. I was using google chrome so will try another browser to see if there are the same results.


Gene nz


On 11/02/2020 12:40 pm, James Bentley wrote:

Its been so long and frustrating since  I finally stumbled through the process that I no longer remember.  And, I’m glad I forgot.

 

I have no problems at Amazon or Walmart or dozens of other sites so I stand by my opinion that the form/site could be easier.  Especially since more than a few people are having problems.

 

I agree with the lister who said that a donation page should be easier.

 

James B

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tyler Spivey
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2020 4:58 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Donation Too nerve wracking

 

Please explain how the form is badly designed. It can't be simpler.

You need to select what type of donation you want. Either you have a set of radio buttons on the Download page, or a set of buttons on the donate page.

 

On 2/10/2020 2:46 PM, James Bentley wrote:

I’m not certain as to who is saying the phrase, “kiss of death” but I agree.

 

It took me well over a year to finally finally set up a small monthly donation to NVDA.  I wonder how many dollars are not getting where they need to go because of a combination of persons with less PC skills and apparently, a web designer or, at least the form designer also having less skills.

 

We need NVDA to grow world wide so more persons will have free access to NVDA.

 

I use Jaws and Narrator too but, NVDA needs to prosper.  I hope some one will fix this unnecessary complicated process.

 

Regards,

 

James B

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2020 3:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Donation Too nerve wracking

 

On Mon, Feb 10, 2020 at 04:34 PM, Jackie wrote:

The problem is that too many, I think assume a lack of skill, when at least part of the problem may indeed be due to implementation.

And, in this case, it seems to be a combination of both, which is often the absolute kiss of death.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 

Gene
 

One thing I haven't examined yet fully, but which I think is the case from what I looked at, is that if someone tabs through the radio buttons, which they shouldn't do on an unfamiliar form, only the radio button will be announced and not the associated text.  Someone who knows how to work with forms well won't find this a problem but a lot of blind people don't know how to work with forms well.  If this were changed, it would make it easier for those who aren't good at filling out forms. 
 
That still doesn't tell people if they are in the one time donation or the recurring donation part of the form.  The only way I can see as I think about it now, though there may be others, is to have the form divided with links telling people what they will be working with. 
In other words, at the start of the form, a link would say something like click here to make a one time donation.  On the line below, there would be a link that says click here to make a monthly donation.
As things are now, these parts of the form are on the same page with text telling people where they are.  But a lot of blind people tab through a form or through most of it.  That is, I believe, the result of poor instruction or of people just picking things up as they go. 
 
The form designers need to decide if they want to help people learn to use forms with instructions and keeping the form as it is, or if they want to make the form useable by people who just tab through everything.
 
Earlier, I said that the form should not be dumbed down.  But on reflection, I'll say that it depends on what the designers want to do, to educate in that context or make something so easy to use that it takes nothing but tabbing.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2020 4:58 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Donation Too nerve wracking

Please explain how the form is badly designed. It can't be simpler.

You need to select what type of donation you want. Either you have a set of radio buttons on the Download page, or a set of buttons on the donate page.


On 2/10/2020 2:46 PM, James Bentley wrote:

I’m not certain as to who is saying the phrase, “kiss of death” but I agree.

 

It took me well over a year to finally finally set up a small monthly donation to NVDA.  I wonder how many dollars are not getting where they need to go because of a combination of persons with less PC skills and apparently, a web designer or, at least the form designer also having less skills.

 

We need NVDA to grow world wide so more persons will have free access to NVDA.

 

I use Jaws and Narrator too but, NVDA needs to prosper.  I hope some one will fix this unnecessary complicated process.

 

Regards,

 

James B

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2020 3:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Donation Too nerve wracking

 

On Mon, Feb 10, 2020 at 04:34 PM, Jackie wrote:

The problem is that too many, I think assume a lack of skill, when at least part of the problem may indeed be due to implementation.

And, in this case, it seems to be a combination of both, which is often the absolute kiss of death.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 

Sarah k Alawami
 

I believe i also had problems, that was way back in 2016, and I've ben a computer user since 1989 and I'm quite familiar with paypal. I also can't remember what the sticking point was either but it did drive me nuts.

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website. This is also our libsyn page as well.

to subscribe to the feed click here

Our telegram channel is also a good place for an announce only in regard to podcasts, contests, etc.

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on [twitch.](twitch.tv/ke7zum] Feel free to give the channel a follow and see what is up there.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 10 Feb 2020, at 15:40, James Bentley wrote:

Its been so long and frustrating since  I finally stumbled through the process that I no longer remember.  And, I’m glad I forgot.

 

I have no problems at Amazon or Walmart or dozens of other sites so I stand by my opinion that the form/site could be easier.  Especially since more than a few people are having problems.

 

I agree with the lister who said that a donation page should be easier.

 

James B

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tyler Spivey
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2020 4:58 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Donation Too nerve wracking

 

Please explain how the form is badly designed. It can't be simpler.

You need to select what type of donation you want. Either you have a set of radio buttons on the Download page, or a set of buttons on the donate page.

 

On 2/10/2020 2:46 PM, James Bentley wrote:

I’m not certain as to who is saying the phrase, “kiss of death” but I agree.

 

It took me well over a year to finally finally set up a small monthly donation to NVDA.  I wonder how many dollars are not getting where they need to go because of a combination of persons with less PC skills and apparently, a web designer or, at least the form designer also having less skills.

 

We need NVDA to grow world wide so more persons will have free access to NVDA.

 

I use Jaws and Narrator too but, NVDA needs to prosper.  I hope some one will fix this unnecessary complicated process.

 

Regards,

 

James B

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2020 3:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Donation Too nerve wracking

 

On Mon, Feb 10, 2020 at 04:34 PM, Jackie wrote:

The problem is that too many, I think assume a lack of skill, when at least part of the problem may indeed be due to implementation.

And, in this case, it seems to be a combination of both, which is often the absolute kiss of death.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 

Sarah k Alawami
 

I remember now. I thought I did choose one time and ended up donating twice in 2 months. At the time it was not an option to do that so that took me a bit off guard. I know how to use forms well and I was not tabbing either.

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website. This is also our libsyn page as well.

to subscribe to the feed click here

Our telegram channel is also a good place for an announce only in regard to podcasts, contests, etc.

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on [twitch.](twitch.tv/ke7zum] Feel free to give the channel a follow and see what is up there.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 10 Feb 2020, at 16:27, Gene wrote:

One thing I haven't examined yet fully, but which I think is the case from what I looked at, is that if someone tabs through the radio buttons, which they shouldn't do on an unfamiliar form, only the radio button will be announced and not the associated text.  Someone who knows how to work with forms well won't find this a problem but a lot of blind people don't know how to work with forms well.  If this were changed, it would make it easier for those who aren't good at filling out forms. 
 
That still doesn't tell people if they are in the one time donation or the recurring donation part of the form.  The only way I can see as I think about it now, though there may be others, is to have the form divided with links telling people what they will be working with. 
In other words, at the start of the form, a link would say something like click here to make a one time donation.  On the line below, there would be a link that says click here to make a monthly donation.
As things are now, these parts of the form are on the same page with text telling people where they are.  But a lot of blind people tab through a form or through most of it.  That is, I believe, the result of poor instruction or of people just picking things up as they go. 
 
The form designers need to decide if they want to help people learn to use forms with instructions and keeping the form as it is, or if they want to make the form useable by people who just tab through everything.
 
Earlier, I said that the form should not be dumbed down.  But on reflection, I'll say that it depends on what the designers want to do, to educate in that context or make something so easy to use that it takes nothing but tabbing.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2020 4:58 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Donation Too nerve wracking

Please explain how the form is badly designed. It can't be simpler.

You need to select what type of donation you want. Either you have a set of radio buttons on the Download page, or a set of buttons on the donate page.


On 2/10/2020 2:46 PM, James Bentley wrote:

I’m not certain as to who is saying the phrase, “kiss of death” but I agree.

 

It took me well over a year to finally finally set up a small monthly donation to NVDA.  I wonder how many dollars are not getting where they need to go because of a combination of persons with less PC skills and apparently, a web designer or, at least the form designer also having less skills.

 

We need NVDA to grow world wide so more persons will have free access to NVDA.

 

I use Jaws and Narrator too but, NVDA needs to prosper.  I hope some one will fix this unnecessary complicated process.

 

Regards,

 

James B

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2020 3:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Donation Too nerve wracking

 

On Mon, Feb 10, 2020 at 04:34 PM, Jackie wrote:

The problem is that too many, I think assume a lack of skill, when at least part of the problem may indeed be due to implementation.

And, in this case, it seems to be a combination of both, which is often the absolute kiss of death.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 

hurrikennyandopo ...
 

Hi Gene


NVA says they are buttons not radio buttons so can be skipped down by the letter B


If you then say pick one that you can donate to monthly mine is setup to do with pay pal which I think was one of the options then just a matter of signing in and paying that way.


I see where the problem comes in is a once off donation when it takes you to the next screen you can not edit the amount so most people would stop there and go no further If i did say then go to donate i would be guessing it was the 200 not the lets say 10 bucks.


I would not go any further so no donation that way.


Gene nz


On 11/02/2020 1:27 pm, Gene wrote:
One thing I haven't examined yet fully, but which I think is the case from what I looked at, is that if someone tabs through the radio buttons, which they shouldn't do on an unfamiliar form, only the radio button will be announced and not the associated text.  Someone who knows how to work with forms well won't find this a problem but a lot of blind people don't know how to work with forms well.  If this were changed, it would make it easier for those who aren't good at filling out forms. 
 
That still doesn't tell people if they are in the one time donation or the recurring donation part of the form.  The only way I can see as I think about it now, though there may be others, is to have the form divided with links telling people what they will be working with. 
In other words, at the start of the form, a link would say something like click here to make a one time donation.  On the line below, there would be a link that says click here to make a monthly donation.
As things are now, these parts of the form are on the same page with text telling people where they are.  But a lot of blind people tab through a form or through most of it.  That is, I believe, the result of poor instruction or of people just picking things up as they go. 
 
The form designers need to decide if they want to help people learn to use forms with instructions and keeping the form as it is, or if they want to make the form useable by people who just tab through everything.
 
Earlier, I said that the form should not be dumbed down.  But on reflection, I'll say that it depends on what the designers want to do, to educate in that context or make something so easy to use that it takes nothing but tabbing.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2020 4:58 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Donation Too nerve wracking

Please explain how the form is badly designed. It can't be simpler.

You need to select what type of donation you want. Either you have a set of radio buttons on the Download page, or a set of buttons on the donate page.


On 2/10/2020 2:46 PM, James Bentley wrote:

I’m not certain as to who is saying the phrase, “kiss of death” but I agree.

 

It took me well over a year to finally finally set up a small monthly donation to NVDA.  I wonder how many dollars are not getting where they need to go because of a combination of persons with less PC skills and apparently, a web designer or, at least the form designer also having less skills.

 

We need NVDA to grow world wide so more persons will have free access to NVDA.

 

I use Jaws and Narrator too but, NVDA needs to prosper.  I hope some one will fix this unnecessary complicated process.

 

Regards,

 

James B

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2020 3:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Donation Too nerve wracking

 

On Mon, Feb 10, 2020 at 04:34 PM, Jackie wrote:

The problem is that too many, I think assume a lack of skill, when at least part of the problem may indeed be due to implementation.

And, in this case, it seems to be a combination of both, which is often the absolute kiss of death.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 

Gene
 

I've been talking about tabbing but you can't tab through the radio buttons in this form so that isn't a problem.  It appears people either have to down arrow or move by r.  If you move by r, you hear the amount the radio button is for and you are on that radio button.  But you won't hear the one off and monthly options.  If you down arrow you will but those not good at filling out forms may become confused as to what radio button selects what.  It may be that you cant tab through radio buttons on a web page in general.  I don't do so and I don't know.  So I'm not saying you should be able to tab through them.  I am correcting what I said about tabbing through the radio buttons because you can't.  But the radio buttons should read what they are for whether you down arrow or use r. 
 
Because you can move by r and not hear the kind of donation you will be making, I think, as I said before, that there should be links to the parts of the form for making either monthly or one off donations. 
 
And if you are going to have links to different kinds of donation options, would radio buttons or combo boxes be better to use in terms of what would be easier for those not good at filling out forms to use?
 
I am now writing largely in the context of whether developers want to educate or make the form as easy as possible to use.  At this point, I am addressing how to make it as easy as possible to use, whether instructions are provided or not. 
 
And if combo boxes are used, they shouldn't be the JAVA kind that take you somewhere when you make a selection and require alt down arrow not to do so.  They should register the selection when you make it and leave the combo box. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2020 6:27 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Donation Too nerve wracking

One thing I haven't examined yet fully, but which I think is the case from what I looked at, is that if someone tabs through the radio buttons, which they shouldn't do on an unfamiliar form, only the radio button will be announced and not the associated text.  Someone who knows how to work with forms well won't find this a problem but a lot of blind people don't know how to work with forms well.  If this were changed, it would make it easier for those who aren't good at filling out forms. 
 
That still doesn't tell people if they are in the one time donation or the recurring donation part of the form.  The only way I can see as I think about it now, though there may be others, is to have the form divided with links telling people what they will be working with. 
In other words, at the start of the form, a link would say something like click here to make a one time donation.  On the line below, there would be a link that says click here to make a monthly donation.
As things are now, these parts of the form are on the same page with text telling people where they are.  But a lot of blind people tab through a form or through most of it.  That is, I believe, the result of poor instruction or of people just picking things up as they go. 
 
The form designers need to decide if they want to help people learn to use forms with instructions and keeping the form as it is, or if they want to make the form useable by people who just tab through everything.
 
Earlier, I said that the form should not be dumbed down.  But on reflection, I'll say that it depends on what the designers want to do, to educate in that context or make something so easy to use that it takes nothing but tabbing.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2020 4:58 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Donation Too nerve wracking

Please explain how the form is badly designed. It can't be simpler.

You need to select what type of donation you want. Either you have a set of radio buttons on the Download page, or a set of buttons on the donate page.


On 2/10/2020 2:46 PM, James Bentley wrote:

I’m not certain as to who is saying the phrase, “kiss of death” but I agree.

 

It took me well over a year to finally finally set up a small monthly donation to NVDA.  I wonder how many dollars are not getting where they need to go because of a combination of persons with less PC skills and apparently, a web designer or, at least the form designer also having less skills.

 

We need NVDA to grow world wide so more persons will have free access to NVDA.

 

I use Jaws and Narrator too but, NVDA needs to prosper.  I hope some one will fix this unnecessary complicated process.

 

Regards,

 

James B

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2020 3:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Donation Too nerve wracking

 

On Mon, Feb 10, 2020 at 04:34 PM, Jackie wrote:

The problem is that too many, I think assume a lack of skill, when at least part of the problem may indeed be due to implementation.

And, in this case, it seems to be a combination of both, which is often the absolute kiss of death.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 

Gene
 

I don't know what part of the form you are working with.  if you start with the donate form on the page that discusses downloading and askks users to donate, they are radio buttons.  But I don't know where you are looking.  and I can move through them with r.
 
Are you on a page you get to after you follow the download button and are on the page where you continue after making your selection on the first page? 
 
Gene
----- Origial message -----

Sent: Monday, February 10, 2020 7:12 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Donation Too nerve wracking

Hi Gene


NVA says they are buttons not radio buttons so can be skipped down by the letter B


If you then say pick one that you can donate to monthly mine is setup to do with pay pal which I think was one of the options then just a matter of signing in and paying that way.


I see where the problem comes in is a once off donation when it takes you to the next screen you can not edit the amount so most people would stop there and go no further If i did say then go to donate i would be guessing it was the 200 not the lets say 10 bucks.


I would not go any further so no donation that way.


Gene nz


On 11/02/2020 1:27 pm, Gene wrote:
One thing I haven't examined yet fully, but which I think is the case from what I looked at, is that if someone tabs through the radio buttons, which they shouldn't do on an unfamiliar form, only the radio button will be announced and not the associated text.  Someone who knows how to work with forms well won't find this a problem but a lot of blind people don't know how to work with forms well.  If this were changed, it would make it easier for those who aren't good at filling out forms. 
 
That still doesn't tell people if they are in the one time donation or the recurring donation part of the form.  The only way I can see as I think about it now, though there may be others, is to have the form divided with links telling people what they will be working with. 
In other words, at the start of the form, a link would say something like click here to make a one time donation.  On the line below, there would be a link that says click here to make a monthly donation.
As things are now, these parts of the form are on the same page with text telling people where they are.  But a lot of blind people tab through a form or through most of it.  That is, I believe, the result of poor instruction or of people just picking things up as they go. 
 
The form designers need to decide if they want to help people learn to use forms with instructions and keeping the form as it is, or if they want to make the form useable by people who just tab through everything.
 
Earlier, I said that the form should not be dumbed down.  But on reflection, I'll say that it depends on what the designers want to do, to educate in that context or make something so easy to use that it takes nothing but tabbing.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2020 4:58 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Donation Too nerve wracking

Please explain how the form is badly designed. It can't be simpler.

You need to select what type of donation you want. Either you have a set of radio buttons on the Download page, or a set of buttons on the donate page.


On 2/10/2020 2:46 PM, James Bentley wrote:

I’m not certain as to who is saying the phrase, “kiss of death” but I agree.

 

It took me well over a year to finally finally set up a small monthly donation to NVDA.  I wonder how many dollars are not getting where they need to go because of a combination of persons with less PC skills and apparently, a web designer or, at least the form designer also having less skills.

 

We need NVDA to grow world wide so more persons will have free access to NVDA.

 

I use Jaws and Narrator too but, NVDA needs to prosper.  I hope some one will fix this unnecessary complicated process.

 

Regards,

 

James B

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2020 3:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Donation Too nerve wracking

 

On Mon, Feb 10, 2020 at 04:34 PM, Jackie wrote:

The problem is that too many, I think assume a lack of skill, when at least part of the problem may indeed be due to implementation.

And, in this case, it seems to be a combination of both, which is often the absolute kiss of death.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 

Annette Moore
 

Gene NZ, try Firefox. It let me change the 200 to a 100 for a one-time donation.

Annette

On 2/10/2020 6:13 PM, hurrikennyandopo ... wrote:

if any where it is more on the second page I was looking at doing a lets say one off donation and on the second one in the edit area it would not let me change it from 200 to what ever I wanted to donate. Most people would stop there.


It seemed to do it from the nvaccess website for donations and from nvda for donations. I was using google chrome so will try another browser to see if there are the same results.


Gene nz


On 11/02/2020 12:40 pm, James Bentley wrote:

Its been so long and frustrating since  I finally stumbled through the process that I no longer remember.  And, I’m glad I forgot.

 

I have no problems at Amazon or Walmart or dozens of other sites so I stand by my opinion that the form/site could be easier.  Especially since more than a few people are having problems.

 

I agree with the lister who said that a donation page should be easier.

 

James B

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tyler Spivey
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2020 4:58 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Donation Too nerve wracking

 

Please explain how the form is badly designed. It can't be simpler.

You need to select what type of donation you want. Either you have a set of radio buttons on the Download page, or a set of buttons on the donate page.

 

On 2/10/2020 2:46 PM, James Bentley wrote:

I’m not certain as to who is saying the phrase, “kiss of death” but I agree.

 

It took me well over a year to finally finally set up a small monthly donation to NVDA.  I wonder how many dollars are not getting where they need to go because of a combination of persons with less PC skills and apparently, a web designer or, at least the form designer also having less skills.

 

We need NVDA to grow world wide so more persons will have free access to NVDA.

 

I use Jaws and Narrator too but, NVDA needs to prosper.  I hope some one will fix this unnecessary complicated process.

 

Regards,

 

James B

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2020 3:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Donation Too nerve wracking

 

On Mon, Feb 10, 2020 at 04:34 PM, Jackie wrote:

The problem is that too many, I think assume a lack of skill, when at least part of the problem may indeed be due to implementation.

And, in this case, it seems to be a combination of both, which is often the absolute kiss of death.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 

Gene
 

If you see buttons where I see radio buttons, which browser are you using?  it makes no sense that buttons be used.  the point is to make one selection and radio buttons only allow you to make one selection.  So if you are seeing buttons, you are seeing incorrect information.
 
I looked at the page you are sent to after activating the download button.  The page doesn't have any buttons.  So are you talking about the first page? 
 
To another point discussed today, it does show the donation amount you selected in a read only edit field which is evidently why someone said the amount can't be changed earlier in the day.  You don't change it there.  When you select the other radio button on the first page, an edit field appears below the radio button where you enter the amount you wish.  The Pay Pal page isn't where you change that information.
I've probably said about all I will in this thread so as not to be repetitive or get too much into detail. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2020 7:54 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Donation Too nerve wracking

I don't know what part of the form you are working with.  if you start with the donate form on the page that discusses downloading and askks users to donate, they are radio buttons.  But I don't know where you are looking.  and I can move through them with r.
 
Are you on a page you get to after you follow the download button and are on the page where you continue after making your selection on the first page? 
 
Gene
----- Origial message -----
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2020 7:12 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Donation Too nerve wracking

Hi Gene


NVA says they are buttons not radio buttons so can be skipped down by the letter B


If you then say pick one that you can donate to monthly mine is setup to do with pay pal which I think was one of the options then just a matter of signing in and paying that way.


I see where the problem comes in is a once off donation when it takes you to the next screen you can not edit the amount so most people would stop there and go no further If i did say then go to donate i would be guessing it was the 200 not the lets say 10 bucks.


I would not go any further so no donation that way.


Gene nz


On 11/02/2020 1:27 pm, Gene wrote:
One thing I haven't examined yet fully, but which I think is the case from what I looked at, is that if someone tabs through the radio buttons, which they shouldn't do on an unfamiliar form, only the radio button will be announced and not the associated text.  Someone who knows how to work with forms well won't find this a problem but a lot of blind people don't know how to work with forms well.  If this were changed, it would make it easier for those who aren't good at filling out forms. 
 
That still doesn't tell people if they are in the one time donation or the recurring donation part of the form.  The only way I can see as I think about it now, though there may be others, is to have the form divided with links telling people what they will be working with. 
In other words, at the start of the form, a link would say something like click here to make a one time donation.  On the line below, there would be a link that says click here to make a monthly donation.
As things are now, these parts of the form are on the same page with text telling people where they are.  But a lot of blind people tab through a form or through most of it.  That is, I believe, the result of poor instruction or of people just picking things up as they go. 
 
The form designers need to decide if they want to help people learn to use forms with instructions and keeping the form as it is, or if they want to make the form useable by people who just tab through everything.
 
Earlier, I said that the form should not be dumbed down.  But on reflection, I'll say that it depends on what the designers want to do, to educate in that context or make something so easy to use that it takes nothing but tabbing.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2020 4:58 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Donation Too nerve wracking

Please explain how the form is badly designed. It can't be simpler.

You need to select what type of donation you want. Either you have a set of radio buttons on the Download page, or a set of buttons on the donate page.


On 2/10/2020 2:46 PM, James Bentley wrote:

I’m not certain as to who is saying the phrase, “kiss of death” but I agree.

 

It took me well over a year to finally finally set up a small monthly donation to NVDA.  I wonder how many dollars are not getting where they need to go because of a combination of persons with less PC skills and apparently, a web designer or, at least the form designer also having less skills.

 

We need NVDA to grow world wide so more persons will have free access to NVDA.

 

I use Jaws and Narrator too but, NVDA needs to prosper.  I hope some one will fix this unnecessary complicated process.

 

Regards,

 

James B

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2020 3:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Donation Too nerve wracking

 

On Mon, Feb 10, 2020 at 04:34 PM, Jackie wrote:

The problem is that too many, I think assume a lack of skill, when at least part of the problem may indeed be due to implementation.

And, in this case, it seems to be a combination of both, which is often the absolute kiss of death.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 

hurrikennyandopo ...
 

Hi Gene


It looks as though there are different results depending which way you go in.


For example from the screen reader and I think the donate link on there website it shows buttons and it is the one off donation when it takes you to another page you can not edit.


But if you look say under the down load link page they show as radio buttons and if you pick one off donation it will let you edit the amount to donate but then nothing after that even if you press the enter key there does not seem to be even a button there to do that.


i can see why people are having problems.


I reported the other 2 to quenton but when he replies also add in the one from the down load page which reports differently.


you can have a sus to see what I mean.


Gene nz


On 11/02/2020 2:54 pm, Gene wrote:
I don't know what part of the form you are working with.  if you start with the donate form on the page that discusses downloading and askks users to donate, they are radio buttons.  But I don't know where you are looking.  and I can move through them with r.
 
Are you on a page you get to after you follow the download button and are on the page where you continue after making your selection on the first page? 
 
Gene
----- Origial message -----
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2020 7:12 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Donation Too nerve wracking

Hi Gene


NVA says they are buttons not radio buttons so can be skipped down by the letter B


If you then say pick one that you can donate to monthly mine is setup to do with pay pal which I think was one of the options then just a matter of signing in and paying that way.


I see where the problem comes in is a once off donation when it takes you to the next screen you can not edit the amount so most people would stop there and go no further If i did say then go to donate i would be guessing it was the 200 not the lets say 10 bucks.


I would not go any further so no donation that way.


Gene nz


On 11/02/2020 1:27 pm, Gene wrote:
One thing I haven't examined yet fully, but which I think is the case from what I looked at, is that if someone tabs through the radio buttons, which they shouldn't do on an unfamiliar form, only the radio button will be announced and not the associated text.  Someone who knows how to work with forms well won't find this a problem but a lot of blind people don't know how to work with forms well.  If this were changed, it would make it easier for those who aren't good at filling out forms. 
 
That still doesn't tell people if they are in the one time donation or the recurring donation part of the form.  The only way I can see as I think about it now, though there may be others, is to have the form divided with links telling people what they will be working with. 
In other words, at the start of the form, a link would say something like click here to make a one time donation.  On the line below, there would be a link that says click here to make a monthly donation.
As things are now, these parts of the form are on the same page with text telling people where they are.  But a lot of blind people tab through a form or through most of it.  That is, I believe, the result of poor instruction or of people just picking things up as they go. 
 
The form designers need to decide if they want to help people learn to use forms with instructions and keeping the form as it is, or if they want to make the form useable by people who just tab through everything.
 
Earlier, I said that the form should not be dumbed down.  But on reflection, I'll say that it depends on what the designers want to do, to educate in that context or make something so easy to use that it takes nothing but tabbing.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2020 4:58 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Donation Too nerve wracking

Please explain how the form is badly designed. It can't be simpler.

You need to select what type of donation you want. Either you have a set of radio buttons on the Download page, or a set of buttons on the donate page.


On 2/10/2020 2:46 PM, James Bentley wrote:

I’m not certain as to who is saying the phrase, “kiss of death” but I agree.

 

It took me well over a year to finally finally set up a small monthly donation to NVDA.  I wonder how many dollars are not getting where they need to go because of a combination of persons with less PC skills and apparently, a web designer or, at least the form designer also having less skills.

 

We need NVDA to grow world wide so more persons will have free access to NVDA.

 

I use Jaws and Narrator too but, NVDA needs to prosper.  I hope some one will fix this unnecessary complicated process.

 

Regards,

 

James B

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2020 3:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Donation Too nerve wracking

 

On Mon, Feb 10, 2020 at 04:34 PM, Jackie wrote:

The problem is that too many, I think assume a lack of skill, when at least part of the problem may indeed be due to implementation.

And, in this case, it seems to be a combination of both, which is often the absolute kiss of death.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 

hurrikennyandopo ...
 

Hi gene


Correction for the download page after you pick your amount and enter it in you need to go to the download button then it will pop up a page to in my case pay pal to donate after I have signed in.


So am guessing it is all right there.


Seems to be on the donate page either through the screen reader or on the website.


Gene nz


On 11/02/2020 3:17 pm, hurrikennyandopo ... wrote:

Hi Gene


It looks as though there are different results depending which way you go in.


For example from the screen reader and I think the donate link on there website it shows buttons and it is the one off donation when it takes you to another page you can not edit.


But if you look say under the down load link page they show as radio buttons and if you pick one off donation it will let you edit the amount to donate but then nothing after that even if you press the enter key there does not seem to be even a button there to do that.


i can see why people are having problems.


I reported the other 2 to quenton but when he replies also add in the one from the down load page which reports differently.


you can have a sus to see what I mean.


Gene nz


On 11/02/2020 2:54 pm, Gene wrote:
I don't know what part of the form you are working with.  if you start with the donate form on the page that discusses downloading and askks users to donate, they are radio buttons.  But I don't know where you are looking.  and I can move through them with r.
 
Are you on a page you get to after you follow the download button and are on the page where you continue after making your selection on the first page? 
 
Gene
----- Origial message -----
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2020 7:12 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Donation Too nerve wracking

Hi Gene


NVA says they are buttons not radio buttons so can be skipped down by the letter B


If you then say pick one that you can donate to monthly mine is setup to do with pay pal which I think was one of the options then just a matter of signing in and paying that way.


I see where the problem comes in is a once off donation when it takes you to the next screen you can not edit the amount so most people would stop there and go no further If i did say then go to donate i would be guessing it was the 200 not the lets say 10 bucks.


I would not go any further so no donation that way.


Gene nz


On 11/02/2020 1:27 pm, Gene wrote:
One thing I haven't examined yet fully, but which I think is the case from what I looked at, is that if someone tabs through the radio buttons, which they shouldn't do on an unfamiliar form, only the radio button will be announced and not the associated text.  Someone who knows how to work with forms well won't find this a problem but a lot of blind people don't know how to work with forms well.  If this were changed, it would make it easier for those who aren't good at filling out forms. 
 
That still doesn't tell people if they are in the one time donation or the recurring donation part of the form.  The only way I can see as I think about it now, though there may be others, is to have the form divided with links telling people what they will be working with. 
In other words, at the start of the form, a link would say something like click here to make a one time donation.  On the line below, there would be a link that says click here to make a monthly donation.
As things are now, these parts of the form are on the same page with text telling people where they are.  But a lot of blind people tab through a form or through most of it.  That is, I believe, the result of poor instruction or of people just picking things up as they go. 
 
The form designers need to decide if they want to help people learn to use forms with instructions and keeping the form as it is, or if they want to make the form useable by people who just tab through everything.
 
Earlier, I said that the form should not be dumbed down.  But on reflection, I'll say that it depends on what the designers want to do, to educate in that context or make something so easy to use that it takes nothing but tabbing.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2020 4:58 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Donation Too nerve wracking

Please explain how the form is badly designed. It can't be simpler.

You need to select what type of donation you want. Either you have a set of radio buttons on the Download page, or a set of buttons on the donate page.


On 2/10/2020 2:46 PM, James Bentley wrote:

I’m not certain as to who is saying the phrase, “kiss of death” but I agree.

 

It took me well over a year to finally finally set up a small monthly donation to NVDA.  I wonder how many dollars are not getting where they need to go because of a combination of persons with less PC skills and apparently, a web designer or, at least the form designer also having less skills.

 

We need NVDA to grow world wide so more persons will have free access to NVDA.

 

I use Jaws and Narrator too but, NVDA needs to prosper.  I hope some one will fix this unnecessary complicated process.

 

Regards,

 

James B

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2020 3:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Donation Too nerve wracking

 

On Mon, Feb 10, 2020 at 04:34 PM, Jackie wrote:

The problem is that too many, I think assume a lack of skill, when at least part of the problem may indeed be due to implementation.

And, in this case, it seems to be a combination of both, which is often the absolute kiss of death.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 

Quentin Christensen
 

Hi everyone,

Ok, well from all the conversation, it looks like regardless of what we thought of the donation form, it might be worth reviewing.  Thanks for all your comments!

Quentin.

On Tue, Feb 11, 2020 at 1:41 PM hurrikennyandopo ... <hurrikennyandopo@...> wrote:

Hi gene


Correction for the download page after you pick your amount and enter it in you need to go to the download button then it will pop up a page to in my case pay pal to donate after I have signed in.


So am guessing it is all right there.


Seems to be on the donate page either through the screen reader or on the website.


Gene nz


On 11/02/2020 3:17 pm, hurrikennyandopo ... wrote:

Hi Gene


It looks as though there are different results depending which way you go in.


For example from the screen reader and I think the donate link on there website it shows buttons and it is the one off donation when it takes you to another page you can not edit.


But if you look say under the down load link page they show as radio buttons and if you pick one off donation it will let you edit the amount to donate but then nothing after that even if you press the enter key there does not seem to be even a button there to do that.


i can see why people are having problems.


I reported the other 2 to quenton but when he replies also add in the one from the down load page which reports differently.


you can have a sus to see what I mean.


Gene nz


On 11/02/2020 2:54 pm, Gene wrote:
I don't know what part of the form you are working with.  if you start with the donate form on the page that discusses downloading and askks users to donate, they are radio buttons.  But I don't know where you are looking.  and I can move through them with r.
 
Are you on a page you get to after you follow the download button and are on the page where you continue after making your selection on the first page? 
 
Gene
----- Origial message -----
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2020 7:12 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Donation Too nerve wracking

Hi Gene


NVA says they are buttons not radio buttons so can be skipped down by the letter B


If you then say pick one that you can donate to monthly mine is setup to do with pay pal which I think was one of the options then just a matter of signing in and paying that way.


I see where the problem comes in is a once off donation when it takes you to the next screen you can not edit the amount so most people would stop there and go no further If i did say then go to donate i would be guessing it was the 200 not the lets say 10 bucks.


I would not go any further so no donation that way.


Gene nz


On 11/02/2020 1:27 pm, Gene wrote:
One thing I haven't examined yet fully, but which I think is the case from what I looked at, is that if someone tabs through the radio buttons, which they shouldn't do on an unfamiliar form, only the radio button will be announced and not the associated text.  Someone who knows how to work with forms well won't find this a problem but a lot of blind people don't know how to work with forms well.  If this were changed, it would make it easier for those who aren't good at filling out forms. 
 
That still doesn't tell people if they are in the one time donation or the recurring donation part of the form.  The only way I can see as I think about it now, though there may be others, is to have the form divided with links telling people what they will be working with. 
In other words, at the start of the form, a link would say something like click here to make a one time donation.  On the line below, there would be a link that says click here to make a monthly donation.
As things are now, these parts of the form are on the same page with text telling people where they are.  But a lot of blind people tab through a form or through most of it.  That is, I believe, the result of poor instruction or of people just picking things up as they go. 
 
The form designers need to decide if they want to help people learn to use forms with instructions and keeping the form as it is, or if they want to make the form useable by people who just tab through everything.
 
Earlier, I said that the form should not be dumbed down.  But on reflection, I'll say that it depends on what the designers want to do, to educate in that context or make something so easy to use that it takes nothing but tabbing.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2020 4:58 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Donation Too nerve wracking

Please explain how the form is badly designed. It can't be simpler.

You need to select what type of donation you want. Either you have a set of radio buttons on the Download page, or a set of buttons on the donate page.


On 2/10/2020 2:46 PM, James Bentley wrote:

I’m not certain as to who is saying the phrase, “kiss of death” but I agree.

 

It took me well over a year to finally finally set up a small monthly donation to NVDA.  I wonder how many dollars are not getting where they need to go because of a combination of persons with less PC skills and apparently, a web designer or, at least the form designer also having less skills.

 

We need NVDA to grow world wide so more persons will have free access to NVDA.

 

I use Jaws and Narrator too but, NVDA needs to prosper.  I hope some one will fix this unnecessary complicated process.

 

Regards,

 

James B

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2020 3:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Donation Too nerve wracking

 

On Mon, Feb 10, 2020 at 04:34 PM, Jackie wrote:

The problem is that too many, I think assume a lack of skill, when at least part of the problem may indeed be due to implementation.

And, in this case, it seems to be a combination of both, which is often the absolute kiss of death.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Gene
 

They are completely different pages and they take you to different Pay Pal pages as well.  While it might make sense to have a page geared more toward the general public and a page you get to when downloading the browser, you should get to the same donate page after looking at the introductory material. 
 
Also, the page you get to using the donate link in the screen-reader doesn't have a way to give other amounts than the preselected ones.  There are so many selections this may not matter, but even so, one page doesn't and the other page does.
 
Neither Pay Pal page allows you to change the amount, but one NVDA page allows you to set your own rate if you wish and the other page doesn't.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----

Sent: Monday, February 10, 2020 8:17 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Donation Too nerve wracking

Hi Gene


It looks as though there are different results depending which way you go in.


For example from the screen reader and I think the donate link on there website it shows buttons and it is the one off donation when it takes you to another page you can not edit.


But if you look say under the down load link page they show as radio buttons and if you pick one off donation it will let you edit the amount to donate but then nothing after that even if you press the enter key there does not seem to be even a button there to do that.


i can see why people are having problems.


I reported the other 2 to quenton but when he replies also add in the one from the down load page which reports differently.


you can have a sus to see what I mean.


Gene nz


On 11/02/2020 2:54 pm, Gene wrote:
I don't know what part of the form you are working with.  if you start with the donate form on the page that discusses downloading and askks users to donate, they are radio buttons.  But I don't know where you are looking.  and I can move through them with r.
 
Are you on a page you get to after you follow the download button and are on the page where you continue after making your selection on the first page? 
 
Gene
----- Origial message -----
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2020 7:12 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Donation Too nerve wracking

Hi Gene


NVA says they are buttons not radio buttons so can be skipped down by the letter B


If you then say pick one that you can donate to monthly mine is setup to do with pay pal which I think was one of the options then just a matter of signing in and paying that way.


I see where the problem comes in is a once off donation when it takes you to the next screen you can not edit the amount so most people would stop there and go no further If i did say then go to donate i would be guessing it was the 200 not the lets say 10 bucks.


I would not go any further so no donation that way.


Gene nz


On 11/02/2020 1:27 pm, Gene wrote:
One thing I haven't examined yet fully, but which I think is the case from what I looked at, is that if someone tabs through the radio buttons, which they shouldn't do on an unfamiliar form, only the radio button will be announced and not the associated text.  Someone who knows how to work with forms well won't find this a problem but a lot of blind people don't know how to work with forms well.  If this were changed, it would make it easier for those who aren't good at filling out forms. 
 
That still doesn't tell people if they are in the one time donation or the recurring donation part of the form.  The only way I can see as I think about it now, though there may be others, is to have the form divided with links telling people what they will be working with. 
In other words, at the start of the form, a link would say something like click here to make a one time donation.  On the line below, there would be a link that says click here to make a monthly donation.
As things are now, these parts of the form are on the same page with text telling people where they are.  But a lot of blind people tab through a form or through most of it.  That is, I believe, the result of poor instruction or of people just picking things up as they go. 
 
The form designers need to decide if they want to help people learn to use forms with instructions and keeping the form as it is, or if they want to make the form useable by people who just tab through everything.
 
Earlier, I said that the form should not be dumbed down.  But on reflection, I'll say that it depends on what the designers want to do, to educate in that context or make something so easy to use that it takes nothing but tabbing.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2020 4:58 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Donation Too nerve wracking

Please explain how the form is badly designed. It can't be simpler.

You need to select what type of donation you want. Either you have a set of radio buttons on the Download page, or a set of buttons on the donate page.


On 2/10/2020 2:46 PM, James Bentley wrote:

I’m not certain as to who is saying the phrase, “kiss of death” but I agree.

 

It took me well over a year to finally finally set up a small monthly donation to NVDA.  I wonder how many dollars are not getting where they need to go because of a combination of persons with less PC skills and apparently, a web designer or, at least the form designer also having less skills.

 

We need NVDA to grow world wide so more persons will have free access to NVDA.

 

I use Jaws and Narrator too but, NVDA needs to prosper.  I hope some one will fix this unnecessary complicated process.

 

Regards,

 

James B

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2020 3:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Donation Too nerve wracking

 

On Mon, Feb 10, 2020 at 04:34 PM, Jackie wrote:

The problem is that too many, I think assume a lack of skill, when at least part of the problem may indeed be due to implementation.

And, in this case, it seems to be a combination of both, which is often the absolute kiss of death.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 

Pascal Lambert
 

That is exactly what happened to me two days ago.  So I just gave up.  We want support?  Let us make it friendly.

Blessings

Pascal

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of hurrikennyandopo ...
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2020 7:13 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Donation Too nerve wracking

 

if any where it is more on the second page I was looking at doing a lets say one off donation and on the second one in the edit area it would not let me change it from 200 to what ever I wanted to donate. Most people would stop there.

 

It seemed to do it from the nvaccess website for donations and from nvda for donations. I was using google chrome so will try another browser to see if there are the same results.

 

Gene nz

 

On 11/02/2020 12:40 pm, James Bentley wrote:

Its been so long and frustrating since  I finally stumbled through the process that I no longer remember.  And, I’m glad I forgot.

 

I have no problems at Amazon or Walmart or dozens of other sites so I stand by my opinion that the form/site could be easier.  Especially since more than a few people are having problems.

 

I agree with the lister who said that a donation page should be easier.

 

James B

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tyler Spivey
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2020 4:58 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Donation Too nerve wracking

 

Please explain how the form is badly designed. It can't be simpler.

You need to select what type of donation you want. Either you have a set of radio buttons on the Download page, or a set of buttons on the donate page.

 

On 2/10/2020 2:46 PM, James Bentley wrote:

I’m not certain as to who is saying the phrase, “kiss of death” but I agree.

 

It took me well over a year to finally finally set up a small monthly donation to NVDA.  I wonder how many dollars are not getting where they need to go because of a combination of persons with less PC skills and apparently, a web designer or, at least the form designer also having less skills.

 

We need NVDA to grow world wide so more persons will have free access to NVDA.

 

I use Jaws and Narrator too but, NVDA needs to prosper.  I hope some one will fix this unnecessary complicated process.

 

Regards,

 

James B

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2020 3:40 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Donation Too nerve wracking

 

On Mon, Feb 10, 2020 at 04:34 PM, Jackie wrote:

The problem is that too many, I think assume a lack of skill, when at least part of the problem may indeed be due to implementation.

And, in this case, it seems to be a combination of both, which is often the absolute kiss of death.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna