Equivalent to Jaw's Screen Echo


Clement Chou
 

Hi all. Wanting to experiment with a few apps with questionable
accessibility, and a friend recommended a workaround with JAWS using
screen echo set to all. Is there a way to get the same thing with NVDA
either as a setting or an addon? I didn't find it anywhere in
preferences, so I'm guessing it's not an available setting?


Gene
 

There isn’t such a setting.  I know of no such add-on, though others may.
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2021 8:42 AM
To: nvda
Subject: [nvda] Equivalent to Jaw's Screen Echo
 
Hi all. Wanting to experiment with a few apps with questionable
accessibility, and a friend recommended a workaround with JAWS using
screen echo set to all. Is there a way to get the same thing with NVDA
either as a setting or an addon? I didn't find it anywhere in
preferences, so I'm guessing it's not an available setting?





Clement Chou
 

I figured as much, which is unfortunate because it'd be hugely helpful
in reporting screen changes for potentially inaccessible apps.

On 10/6/21, Gene <gsasner@gmail.com> wrote:
There isn’t such a setting. I know of no such add-on, though others may.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Clement Chou
Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2021 8:42 AM
To: nvda
Subject: [nvda] Equivalent to Jaw's Screen Echo

Hi all. Wanting to experiment with a few apps with questionable
accessibility, and a friend recommended a workaround with JAWS using
screen echo set to all. Is there a way to get the same thing with NVDA
either as a setting or an addon? I didn't find it anywhere in
preferences, so I'm guessing it's not an available setting?










Gene
 

That may be.  I believe the JAWS feature reads the full screen the first time it changes and then only reads what has changed.  It has been so long since I used the feature that I’m not sure. 
 
My question is, are there technical considerations that allow JAWS to have such a feature and don’t allow NVDA to?  Also, NVDA doesn’t have the ability to have user created frames.  Not having both of these options imposes limitations that should be discussed unless there is a technical reason that they can’t be implemented.
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2021 8:58 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Equivalent to Jaw's Screen Echo
 
I figured as much, which is unfortunate because it'd be hugely helpful
in reporting screen changes for potentially inaccessible apps.

On 10/6/21, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
> There isn’t such a setting.  I know of no such add-on, though others may.
>
> Gene
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Clement Chou
> Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2021 8:42 AM
> To: nvda
> Subject: [nvda] Equivalent to Jaw's Screen Echo
>
> Hi all. Wanting to experiment with a few apps with questionable
> accessibility, and a friend recommended a workaround with JAWS using
> screen echo set to all. Is there a way to get the same thing with NVDA
> either as a setting or an addon? I didn't find it anywhere in
> preferences, so I'm guessing it's not an available setting?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>





 

On Wed, Oct 6, 2021 at 10:07 AM, Gene wrote:
Not having both of these options imposes limitations that should be discussed unless there is a technical reason that they can’t be implemented.
-
Gene,

There are multitudes of things that could, potentially, be implemented but that are not because the need for same is so infrequent and/or other things have higher priority.  I say that not as a criticism of you, but in reaction to an observation that's often repeated that has the underlying belief that because someone, somewhere, once in a blue moon might be able to use a feature that it should be implemented.  That's not always the case.

And in an instance such as this one, it makes way more sense to pursue accessibility improvements through the developers of the apps, rather than having the screen reader(s) workaround what is clearly bad to non-existent accessibility in the software design itself.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all.

         ~ John F. Kennedy

 


Quentin Christensen
 

Perhaps what would be helpful here would be for someone familiar with the Jaws feature, to please describe how it works for the user?  Ok, so I'm a user, I have a program which doesn't seem to be accessible, I launch this feature.... what does it do?

With a number of features, it may be that there is a solution to a problem, and it may or may not be identical to the way Jaws does it, and I think sometimes we get stuck on "this is what Jaws does, I want it to work the same", rather than "this is the problem I'm trying to solve, is there a solution"?

On Thu, Oct 7, 2021 at 2:42 AM Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
On Wed, Oct 6, 2021 at 10:07 AM, Gene wrote:
Not having both of these options imposes limitations that should be discussed unless there is a technical reason that they can’t be implemented.
-
Gene,

There are multitudes of things that could, potentially, be implemented but that are not because the need for same is so infrequent and/or other things have higher priority.  I say that not as a criticism of you, but in reaction to an observation that's often repeated that has the underlying belief that because someone, somewhere, once in a blue moon might be able to use a feature that it should be implemented.  That's not always the case.

And in an instance such as this one, it makes way more sense to pursue accessibility improvements through the developers of the apps, rather than having the screen reader(s) workaround what is clearly bad to non-existent accessibility in the software design itself.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all.

         ~ John F. Kennedy

 



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Gene
 

I’m certainly not stuck on it and those who use JAWS can test and see if the feature works as I recall.  I haven’t used it for so long my memory may not be correct.  My recollection, from when I used it with a shell account in the late nineties with the Pine e-mail program is that it read everything on a screen the first time the screen was presented in full.  Then, my recollection is that if you let the computer sit on that screen, only new or changed material was read.  I seem to recall that if I was in the Pine inbox, swhen the status line almost at the bottom of the screen changed to announce the arrival of x number of new messages, that that line would be read automatically and nothing else. 
Others can confirm my recollection or state if it is wrong. 
 
If something that acts as I recall JAWS doing isn’t practical, then why have frames not been oincorporated into NVDA?  Why haven’t they been incorporated even if speak all were incorporated? In a frame, you define a certain part of the screen, and instruct the frame what to do.  For example, a frame could be instructed to read the text in the frame when it changes or to look for specific text and do something specific such as speak it or take an action.  Is there a technical reason this has never been done or has it just never been done?  Frames, Window-eyes called the same feature hyperactive windows, as I recall, allows a user who doesn’t know how to script to do a good deal of customization.
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2021 4:40 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Equivalent to Jaw's Screen Echo
 
Perhaps what would be helpful here would be for someone familiar with the Jaws feature, to please describe how it works for the user?  Ok, so I'm a user, I have a program which doesn't seem to be accessible, I launch this feature.... what does it do?
 
With a number of features, it may be that there is a solution to a problem, and it may or may not be identical to the way Jaws does it, and I think sometimes we get stuck on "this is what Jaws does, I want it to work the same", rather than "this is the problem I'm trying to solve, is there a solution"?
 
On Thu, Oct 7, 2021 at 2:42 AM Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
On Wed, Oct 6, 2021 at 10:07 AM, Gene wrote:
Not having both of these options imposes limitations that should be discussed unless there is a technical reason that they can’t be implemented.
-
Gene,

There are multitudes of things that could, potentially, be implemented but that are not because the need for same is so infrequent and/or other things have higher priority.  I say that not as a criticism of you, but in reaction to an observation that's often repeated that has the underlying belief that because someone, somewhere, once in a blue moon might be able to use a feature that it should be implemented.  That's not always the case.

And in an instance such as this one, it makes way more sense to pursue accessibility improvements through the developers of the apps, rather than having the screen reader(s) workaround what is clearly bad to non-existent accessibility in the software design itself.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all.

         ~ John F. Kennedy

 

 
 
--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Steve Nutt
 

Hi Quentin,

 

Essentially, it does exactly as described earlier down the thread.

 

When you enable it, it echoes the whole screen once. Then it monitors for changes and echoes them.

 

This is very useful for accessibility testing. It’s probably not a mainstream feature that everyone could use, but it would be helpful to have it.

 

All the best


Steve

 

--

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From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Quentin Christensen
Sent: 06 October 2021 22:41
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Equivalent to Jaw's Screen Echo

 

Perhaps what would be helpful here would be for someone familiar with the Jaws feature, to please describe how it works for the user?  Ok, so I'm a user, I have a program which doesn't seem to be accessible, I launch this feature.... what does it do?

 

With a number of features, it may be that there is a solution to a problem, and it may or may not be identical to the way Jaws does it, and I think sometimes we get stuck on "this is what Jaws does, I want it to work the same", rather than "this is the problem I'm trying to solve, is there a solution"?

 

On Thu, Oct 7, 2021 at 2:42 AM Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

On Wed, Oct 6, 2021 at 10:07 AM, Gene wrote:

Not having both of these options imposes limitations that should be discussed unless there is a technical reason that they can’t be implemented.

-
Gene,

There are multitudes of things that could, potentially, be implemented but that are not because the need for same is so infrequent and/or other things have higher priority.  I say that not as a criticism of you, but in reaction to an observation that's often repeated that has the underlying belief that because someone, somewhere, once in a blue moon might be able to use a feature that it should be implemented.  That's not always the case.

And in an instance such as this one, it makes way more sense to pursue accessibility improvements through the developers of the apps, rather than having the screen reader(s) workaround what is clearly bad to non-existent accessibility in the software design itself.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all.

         ~ John F. Kennedy

 


 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 


Steve Nutt
 

Jean, you are exactly right.

 

All the best


Steve

 

--

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From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 06 October 2021 22:59
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Equivalent to Jaw's Screen Echo

 

I’m certainly not stuck on it and those who use JAWS can test and see if the feature works as I recall.  I haven’t used it for so long my memory may not be correct.  My recollection, from when I used it with a shell account in the late nineties with the Pine e-mail program is that it read everything on a screen the first time the screen was presented in full.  Then, my recollection is that if you let the computer sit on that screen, only new or changed material was read.  I seem to recall that if I was in the Pine inbox, swhen the status line almost at the bottom of the screen changed to announce the arrival of x number of new messages, that that line would be read automatically and nothing else. 

Others can confirm my recollection or state if it is wrong. 

 

If something that acts as I recall JAWS doing isn’t practical, then why have frames not been oincorporated into NVDA?  Why haven’t they been incorporated even if speak all were incorporated? In a frame, you define a certain part of the screen, and instruct the frame what to do.  For example, a frame could be instructed to read the text in the frame when it changes or to look for specific text and do something specific such as speak it or take an action.  Is there a technical reason this has never been done or has it just never been done?  Frames, Window-eyes called the same feature hyperactive windows, as I recall, allows a user who doesn’t know how to script to do a good deal of customization.

 

Gene

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2021 4:40 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Equivalent to Jaw's Screen Echo

 

Perhaps what would be helpful here would be for someone familiar with the Jaws feature, to please describe how it works for the user?  Ok, so I'm a user, I have a program which doesn't seem to be accessible, I launch this feature.... what does it do?

 

With a number of features, it may be that there is a solution to a problem, and it may or may not be identical to the way Jaws does it, and I think sometimes we get stuck on "this is what Jaws does, I want it to work the same", rather than "this is the problem I'm trying to solve, is there a solution"?

 

On Thu, Oct 7, 2021 at 2:42 AM Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

On Wed, Oct 6, 2021 at 10:07 AM, Gene wrote:

Not having both of these options imposes limitations that should be discussed unless there is a technical reason that they can’t be implemented.

-
Gene,

There are multitudes of things that could, potentially, be implemented but that are not because the need for same is so infrequent and/or other things have higher priority.  I say that not as a criticism of you, but in reaction to an observation that's often repeated that has the underlying belief that because someone, somewhere, once in a blue moon might be able to use a feature that it should be implemented.  That's not always the case.

And in an instance such as this one, it makes way more sense to pursue accessibility improvements through the developers of the apps, rather than having the screen reader(s) workaround what is clearly bad to non-existent accessibility in the software design itself.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all.

         ~ John F. Kennedy

 

 

 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 


David Goldfield
 

My only disagreement with Steve’s description is that when you set the JAWS screen echo to “all” it does not automatically speak the contents of the screen.

This is not particularly detailed but here is the relevant description taken from the JAWS help system:

Screen Echo

This option allows you to select what information is echoed when text on the screen changes.

  • Off: Changes to displayed text are not echoed.
  • Highlighted: Changes to highlighted text are echoed. This is the default setting.
  • All: Changes to any displayed text are echoed.

 

David Goldfield,

Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist

JAWS Certified, 2019

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field.

Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

 

www.DavidGoldfield.org

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
Sent: Thursday, October 7, 2021 3:59 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Equivalent to Jaw's Screen Echo

 

Hi Quentin,

 

Essentially, it does exactly as described earlier down the thread.

 

When you enable it, it echoes the whole screen once. Then it monitors for changes and echoes them.

 

This is very useful for accessibility testing. It’s probably not a mainstream feature that everyone could use, but it would be helpful to have it.

 

All the best


Steve

 

--

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From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Quentin Christensen
Sent: 06 October 2021 22:41
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Equivalent to Jaw's Screen Echo

 

Perhaps what would be helpful here would be for someone familiar with the Jaws feature, to please describe how it works for the user?  Ok, so I'm a user, I have a program which doesn't seem to be accessible, I launch this feature.... what does it do?

 

With a number of features, it may be that there is a solution to a problem, and it may or may not be identical to the way Jaws does it, and I think sometimes we get stuck on "this is what Jaws does, I want it to work the same", rather than "this is the problem I'm trying to solve, is there a solution"?

 

On Thu, Oct 7, 2021 at 2:42 AM Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

On Wed, Oct 6, 2021 at 10:07 AM, Gene wrote:

Not having both of these options imposes limitations that should be discussed unless there is a technical reason that they can’t be implemented.

-
Gene,

There are multitudes of things that could, potentially, be implemented but that are not because the need for same is so infrequent and/or other things have higher priority.  I say that not as a criticism of you, but in reaction to an observation that's often repeated that has the underlying belief that because someone, somewhere, once in a blue moon might be able to use a feature that it should be implemented.  That's not always the case.

And in an instance such as this one, it makes way more sense to pursue accessibility improvements through the developers of the apps, rather than having the screen reader(s) workaround what is clearly bad to non-existent accessibility in the software design itself.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all.

         ~ John F. Kennedy

 


 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 


Steve Nutt
 

You’re right David, I just tried it. It doesn’t echo anything when first turned on.

 

All the best


Steve

 

--

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From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of David Goldfield
Sent: 07 October 2021 10:43
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Equivalent to Jaw's Screen Echo

 

My only disagreement with Steve’s description is that when you set the JAWS screen echo to “all” it does not automatically speak the contents of the screen.

This is not particularly detailed but here is the relevant description taken from the JAWS help system:

Screen Echo

This option allows you to select what information is echoed when text on the screen changes.

  • Off: Changes to displayed text are not echoed.
  • Highlighted: Changes to highlighted text are echoed. This is the default setting.
  • All: Changes to any displayed text are echoed.

 

David Goldfield,

Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist

JAWS Certified, 2019

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field.

Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

 

www.DavidGoldfield.org

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
Sent: Thursday, October 7, 2021 3:59 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Equivalent to Jaw's Screen Echo

 

Hi Quentin,

 

Essentially, it does exactly as described earlier down the thread.

 

When you enable it, it echoes the whole screen once. Then it monitors for changes and echoes them.

 

This is very useful for accessibility testing. It’s probably not a mainstream feature that everyone could use, but it would be helpful to have it.

 

All the best


Steve

 

--

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From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Quentin Christensen
Sent: 06 October 2021 22:41
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Equivalent to Jaw's Screen Echo

 

Perhaps what would be helpful here would be for someone familiar with the Jaws feature, to please describe how it works for the user?  Ok, so I'm a user, I have a program which doesn't seem to be accessible, I launch this feature.... what does it do?

 

With a number of features, it may be that there is a solution to a problem, and it may or may not be identical to the way Jaws does it, and I think sometimes we get stuck on "this is what Jaws does, I want it to work the same", rather than "this is the problem I'm trying to solve, is there a solution"?

 

On Thu, Oct 7, 2021 at 2:42 AM Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

On Wed, Oct 6, 2021 at 10:07 AM, Gene wrote:

Not having both of these options imposes limitations that should be discussed unless there is a technical reason that they can’t be implemented.

-
Gene,

There are multitudes of things that could, potentially, be implemented but that are not because the need for same is so infrequent and/or other things have higher priority.  I say that not as a criticism of you, but in reaction to an observation that's often repeated that has the underlying belief that because someone, somewhere, once in a blue moon might be able to use a feature that it should be implemented.  That's not always the case.

And in an instance such as this one, it makes way more sense to pursue accessibility improvements through the developers of the apps, rather than having the screen reader(s) workaround what is clearly bad to non-existent accessibility in the software design itself.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all.

         ~ John F. Kennedy

 


 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 


David Goldfield
 

Thanks for confirming this, Steve.

It’s one of those nice to have features but, for me, it is not essential. I occasionally use it for apps which frequently update the screen, such as when I copy a large number of files from one folder to another or when installing a piece of software where I want to automatically hear all of the changes which are taking place. Having all screen changes announced during such events is convenient but, again, not essential, at least for me. With NVDA I can always just use its review cursor to manually review screen updates. For most situations most of the time I never need to rely on it but someone else’s use case might dictate otherwise.

For those individuals I would say that filing this as a feature request in NVDA’s Github would be appropriate.

David Goldfield,

Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist

JAWS Certified, 2019

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field.

Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

 

www.DavidGoldfield.org

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
Sent: Thursday, October 7, 2021 7:29 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Equivalent to Jaw's Screen Echo

 

You’re right David, I just tried it. It doesn’t echo anything when first turned on.

 

All the best


Steve

 

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From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of David Goldfield
Sent: 07 October 2021 10:43
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Equivalent to Jaw's Screen Echo

 

My only disagreement with Steve’s description is that when you set the JAWS screen echo to “all” it does not automatically speak the contents of the screen.

This is not particularly detailed but here is the relevant description taken from the JAWS help system:

Screen Echo

This option allows you to select what information is echoed when text on the screen changes.

  • Off: Changes to displayed text are not echoed.
  • Highlighted: Changes to highlighted text are echoed. This is the default setting.
  • All: Changes to any displayed text are echoed.

 

David Goldfield,

Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist

JAWS Certified, 2019

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field.

Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

 

www.DavidGoldfield.org

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
Sent: Thursday, October 7, 2021 3:59 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Equivalent to Jaw's Screen Echo

 

Hi Quentin,

 

Essentially, it does exactly as described earlier down the thread.

 

When you enable it, it echoes the whole screen once. Then it monitors for changes and echoes them.

 

This is very useful for accessibility testing. It’s probably not a mainstream feature that everyone could use, but it would be helpful to have it.

 

All the best


Steve

 

--

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From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Quentin Christensen
Sent: 06 October 2021 22:41
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Equivalent to Jaw's Screen Echo

 

Perhaps what would be helpful here would be for someone familiar with the Jaws feature, to please describe how it works for the user?  Ok, so I'm a user, I have a program which doesn't seem to be accessible, I launch this feature.... what does it do?

 

With a number of features, it may be that there is a solution to a problem, and it may or may not be identical to the way Jaws does it, and I think sometimes we get stuck on "this is what Jaws does, I want it to work the same", rather than "this is the problem I'm trying to solve, is there a solution"?

 

On Thu, Oct 7, 2021 at 2:42 AM Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

On Wed, Oct 6, 2021 at 10:07 AM, Gene wrote:

Not having both of these options imposes limitations that should be discussed unless there is a technical reason that they can’t be implemented.

-
Gene,

There are multitudes of things that could, potentially, be implemented but that are not because the need for same is so infrequent and/or other things have higher priority.  I say that not as a criticism of you, but in reaction to an observation that's often repeated that has the underlying belief that because someone, somewhere, once in a blue moon might be able to use a feature that it should be implemented.  That's not always the case.

And in an instance such as this one, it makes way more sense to pursue accessibility improvements through the developers of the apps, rather than having the screen reader(s) workaround what is clearly bad to non-existent accessibility in the software design itself.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all.

         ~ John F. Kennedy

 


 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 


Gene
 

This comment is based on my recollection and my experimentation now with a very old version of JAWS.  I haven’t used JAWS for a long time and I haven’t updated  it.  This needs to be checked or confirmed as the current behavior. 
 
The description isn’t completely accurate.  I can cause either all or most of the screen to be automatically echoed at times and at other times, only new or changed text is echoed.  I don’t know just when either happens. 
 
Gene

------Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2021 4:42 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Equivalent to Jaw's Screen Echo
 

My only disagreement with Steve’s description is that when you set the JAWS screen echo to “all” it does not automatically speak the contents of the screen.

This is not particularly detailed but here is the relevant description taken from the JAWS help system:

Screen Echo

This option allows you to select what information is echoed when text on the screen changes.

  • Off: Changes to displayed text are not echoed.
  • Highlighted: Changes to highlighted text are echoed. This is the default setting.
  • All: Changes to any displayed text are echoed.

 

David Goldfield,

Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist

JAWS Certified, 2019

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field.

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www.DavidGoldfield.org

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
Sent: Thursday, October 7, 2021 3:59 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Equivalent to Jaw's Screen Echo

 

Hi Quentin,

 

Essentially, it does exactly as described earlier down the thread.

 

When you enable it, it echoes the whole screen once. Then it monitors for changes and echoes them.

 

This is very useful for accessibility testing. It’s probably not a mainstream feature that everyone could use, but it would be helpful to have it.

 

All the best


Steve

 

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From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Quentin Christensen
Sent: 06 October 2021 22:41
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Equivalent to Jaw's Screen Echo

 

Perhaps what would be helpful here would be for someone familiar with the Jaws feature, to please describe how it works for the user?  Ok, so I'm a user, I have a program which doesn't seem to be accessible, I launch this feature.... what does it do?

 

With a number of features, it may be that there is a solution to a problem, and it may or may not be identical to the way Jaws does it, and I think sometimes we get stuck on "this is what Jaws does, I want it to work the same", rather than "this is the problem I'm trying to solve, is there a solution"?

 

On Thu, Oct 7, 2021 at 2:42 AM Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

On Wed, Oct 6, 2021 at 10:07 AM, Gene wrote:

Not having both of these options imposes limitations that should be discussed unless there is a technical reason that they can’t be implemented.

-
Gene,

There are multitudes of things that could, potentially, be implemented but that are not because the need for same is so infrequent and/or other things have higher priority.  I say that not as a criticism of you, but in reaction to an observation that's often repeated that has the underlying belief that because someone, somewhere, once in a blue moon might be able to use a feature that it should be implemented.  That's not always the case.

And in an instance such as this one, it makes way more sense to pursue accessibility improvements through the developers of the apps, rather than having the screen reader(s) workaround what is clearly bad to non-existent accessibility in the software design itself.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all.

         ~ John F. Kennedy

 


 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 


Gene
 

Not when first turned on.  Nothing has changed on screen and a new screen hasn’t been ;presented.  If you justturn it on, it does nothing. 
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Nutt
Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2021 6:28 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Equivalent to Jaw's Screen Echo
 

You’re right David, I just tried it. It doesn’t echo anything when first turned on.

 

All the best


Steve

 

--

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Stevenage

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From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of David Goldfield
Sent: 07 October 2021 10:43
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Equivalent to Jaw's Screen Echo

 

My only disagreement with Steve’s description is that when you set the JAWS screen echo to “all” it does not automatically speak the contents of the screen.

This is not particularly detailed but here is the relevant description taken from the JAWS help system:

Screen Echo

This option allows you to select what information is echoed when text on the screen changes.

  • Off: Changes to displayed text are not echoed.
  • Highlighted: Changes to highlighted text are echoed. This is the default setting.
  • All: Changes to any displayed text are echoed.

 

David Goldfield,

Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist

JAWS Certified, 2019

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field.

Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

 

www.DavidGoldfield.org

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve Nutt
Sent: Thursday, October 7, 2021 3:59 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Equivalent to Jaw's Screen Echo

 

Hi Quentin,

 

Essentially, it does exactly as described earlier down the thread.

 

When you enable it, it echoes the whole screen once. Then it monitors for changes and echoes them.

 

This is very useful for accessibility testing. It’s probably not a mainstream feature that everyone could use, but it would be helpful to have it.

 

All the best


Steve

 

--

To subscribe to our News and Special Offers list, go to https://www.comproom.co.uk/subscribe

 

Computer Room Services

77 Exeter Close

Stevenage

Hertfordshire

SG1 4PW

T: +44(0)1438-742286

M: +44(0)7956-334938

F: +44(0)1438-759589

E: steve@...

W: https://www.comproom.co.uk

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Quentin Christensen
Sent: 06 October 2021 22:41
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Equivalent to Jaw's Screen Echo

 

Perhaps what would be helpful here would be for someone familiar with the Jaws feature, to please describe how it works for the user?  Ok, so I'm a user, I have a program which doesn't seem to be accessible, I launch this feature.... what does it do?

 

With a number of features, it may be that there is a solution to a problem, and it may or may not be identical to the way Jaws does it, and I think sometimes we get stuck on "this is what Jaws does, I want it to work the same", rather than "this is the problem I'm trying to solve, is there a solution"?

 

On Thu, Oct 7, 2021 at 2:42 AM Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

On Wed, Oct 6, 2021 at 10:07 AM, Gene wrote:

Not having both of these options imposes limitations that should be discussed unless there is a technical reason that they can’t be implemented.

-
Gene,

There are multitudes of things that could, potentially, be implemented but that are not because the need for same is so infrequent and/or other things have higher priority.  I say that not as a criticism of you, but in reaction to an observation that's often repeated that has the underlying belief that because someone, somewhere, once in a blue moon might be able to use a feature that it should be implemented.  That's not always the case.

And in an instance such as this one, it makes way more sense to pursue accessibility improvements through the developers of the apps, rather than having the screen reader(s) workaround what is clearly bad to non-existent accessibility in the software design itself.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all.

         ~ John F. Kennedy

 


 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager