Topics

Excel Column and row headings not recognized by JAWS


Gerry Chevalier <gerry.chevalier@...>
 

I have used NVDA 2020.3 to set Excel row/column headers using NVDA+Shift+R and NVDA+Shift+C shortcuts. The headings are announced while using NVDA but if the same Excel document is read with JAWS, then JAWS does not announce the column and row headings. If I used Define Name in Excel to set row and title headings according to the JAWS convention, those headings are recognized by NVDA but not the other way around even though the NVDA user guide says JAWS should recognize them.

Is it an NVDA bug or am I missing something?

Thanks, Gerry

 


 

Screen reader specific ways of defining row/column headers are "local to" those specific screen readers.

This is why I always encourage people to set up row/column labels in Excel itself.  There was just an extensive discussion regarding this, and how to set up row/column labels in Excel itself that "go with" the spreadsheet, somewhere.  I need to do some searching to find it.  I know that Alan Lemly wrote the tutorial on this, but I can't recall the group and topic at this very moment.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

     ~ Kelley Boorn

 


 

See Alan Lemly's tutorial on the Microsoft Office Accessibility Discussion Group, in topic, Reading row and column headers using Excel defined titles tutorial

His message has downloadable examples and the whole tutorial itself, from Dropbox.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

     ~ Kelley Boorn

 


Gerry Chevalier <gerry.chevalier@...>
 

I am not using the JAWS labels but rather the Excel Define Name labels specified by JAWS and NVDA does recognize them. The issue is that the NVDA user Guide says that the headings established with the NVDA shortcut keys also result in Excel Define Name labels and it says JAWS will recognize them but it does not. As far as I can see the Define Name labels that NVDA sets up are not of the same specification as JAWS.

Thanks, Gerry

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2020 7:53 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Excel Column and row headings not recognized by JAWS

 

Screen reader specific ways of defining row/column headers are "local to" those specific screen readers.

This is why I always encourage people to set up row/column labels in Excel itself.  There was just an extensive discussion regarding this, and how to set up row/column labels in Excel itself that "go with" the spreadsheet, somewhere.  I need to do some searching to find it.  I know that Alan Lemly wrote the tutorial on this, but I can't recall the group and topic at this very moment.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

     ~ Kelley Boorn

 


 

Gerry,

            All I can tell you is that if you set this up, in Excel, it works in any screen reader, regardless of what screen reader you're using to work with Excel.  But the actual manipulation of row/column titles must occur in Excel so that it "goes with" no matter what screen reader the spreadsheet may be handed to.

            Read the tutorial.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

     ~ Kelley Boorn

 


Gerry Chevalier <gerry.chevalier@...>
 

I appreciate the link to Alan’s tutorial but I know how to set the Define Name Excel labels for rows and columns according to JAWS which Alan refers to as option 1. That’s not the issue. My question is if I set row and column headings with NVDA those headings are not recognized with JAWS but the NVDA user guide says they should be.

Thanks, Gerry

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2020 7:59 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Excel Column and row headings not recognized by JAWS

 

See Alan Lemly's tutorial on the Microsoft Office Accessibility Discussion Group, in topic, Reading row and column headers using Excel defined titles tutorial

His message has downloadable examples and the whole tutorial itself, from Dropbox.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

     ~ Kelley Boorn

 


Tyler Spivey
 

The way to test this is to create a new blank spreadsheet, add some columns, define the headers with the NVDA commands and see if they show up as name ranges.
If they don't, then that's a problem with how NVDA sets them up.

On 10/26/2020 7:15 PM, Gerry Chevalier wrote:
I appreciate the link to Alan’s tutorial but I know how to set the Define Name Excel labels for rows and columns according to JAWS which Alan refers to as option 1. That’s not the issue. My question is if I set row and column headings with NVDA those headings are not recognized with JAWS but the NVDA user guide says they should be.
Thanks, Gerry
*From:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> *On Behalf Of *Brian Vogel
*Sent:* Monday, October 26, 2020 7:59 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Excel Column and row headings not recognized by JAWS
See Alan Lemly's tutorial on the Microsoft Office Accessibility Discussion Group, in topic, */Reading row and column headers using Excel defined titles tutorial/* <https://groups.io/g/office-accessibility/message/511>
His message has downloadable examples and the whole tutorial itself, from Dropbox.
--
Brian *-*Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041
/It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white./
~ Kelley Boorn


Gerry Chevalier <gerry.chevalier@...>
 

Yes, I get it. I need to use the JAWS method for Excel Define Name labels as Alan explains in his tutorial. the NVDA shortcut keys do not create JAWS compatible Define Name labels even though the manual indicates so.

 

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2020 8:12 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Excel Column and row headings not recognized by JAWS

 

Gerry,

            All I can tell you is that if you set this up, in Excel, it works in any screen reader, regardless of what screen reader you're using to work with Excel.  But the actual manipulation of row/column titles must occur in Excel so that it "goes with" no matter what screen reader the spreadsheet may be handed to.

            Read the tutorial.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

     ~ Kelley Boorn

 


Gerry Chevalier <gerry.chevalier@...>
 

Have done just that. The Define Name lables created by NVDA are not the same format as those used by JAWS. I'm just suggesting NVDA should fix them or remove the comment in the manual about JAWS compatibility.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tyler Spivey
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2020 8:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Excel Column and row headings not recognized by JAWS

The way to test this is to create a new blank spreadsheet, add some columns, define the headers with the NVDA commands and see if they show up as name ranges.
If they don't, then that's a problem with how NVDA sets them up.


On 10/26/2020 7:15 PM, Gerry Chevalier wrote:
I appreciate the link to Alan’s tutorial but I know how to set the
Define Name Excel labels for rows and columns according to JAWS which
Alan refers to as option 1. That’s not the issue. My question is if I
set row and column headings with NVDA those headings are not
recognized with JAWS but the NVDA user guide says they should be.

Thanks, Gerry

*From:* nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> *On Behalf Of *Brian
Vogel
*Sent:* Monday, October 26, 2020 7:59 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Excel Column and row headings not recognized by
JAWS

See Alan Lemly's tutorial on the Microsoft Office Accessibility
Discussion Group, in topic, */Reading row and column headers using
Excel defined titles tutorial/*
<https://groups.io/g/office-accessibility/message/511>

His message has downloadable examples and the whole tutorial itself,
from Dropbox.

--

Brian *-*Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041

/It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white./

~ Kelley Boorn


 

If you have done just that, and the result does not work across screen readers, then you've found yourself a bug.

Do you have a GitHub account set up to look at the NVAccess/NVDA project?  If so, you should search to see if there's an open issue and, if not, create one.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

It’s hard waking up and realizing it’s not always black and white.

     ~ Kelley Boorn