Topics

expanding links that won't expand

Sarah k Alawami
 

I can't really describe this well, but there are links on some pages where if you click them, a menu pops out. I can get this to work on the mac but not that much in windows under nvda 19.2 and 19.3, actually I've ben having the issue since last year. I think they call these fly out menus. I think this is the job of the web dev to fix but is there a work around i"m missing. Here's an example

  1. Go to simmarket.com
  2. I'm not sure if you have to be log in for this but click the my account link. You should see "my wish list, my cart, my orders etc. I cannot get this to expand even after playing with it. Sometimes I can route with nvda backspace but even then after trying that trick the page does not show these options. I'm beginning to go nuts as this is how I can get my keys and stuff for softwares and downloads to updates.

Take care and I hope that helps a bit.

And by the way contacting these devs is not that easy. I've already tried, they don't really care.

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website.

to subscribe to the feed click here and you can also follow us on twitter

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on [twitch.](http://twitch.tv/ke7zum] Feel free to give the channel a follow and see what is up there.

For stream archives, products you can buy and more visit my main lbry page and my tffp lbry page YOu will also be able to buy some of my products and eBooks there.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

 

Sarah,

            First and foremost, thank you for posting a URL for myself and all other assistants.  I presume you mean the "Your Account" control which, by the way, is not a link, although the View Cart and Contact Us immediately next to it are both links.

            In looking at the page source for the Your Account control, it is a button, but what a mutant version of a button.  If you are using a mouse like I do, when you hover over this control the entire structure unveils itself for you to either point and click or click into text boxes like those for username and password.  Under NVDA 2019.3.1, I find that I can get to it using the quick browsing 'b' command for buttons only when the page has first loaded, and once I land on it hitting enter opens up the whole range of controls it unveils.  You can then TAB your way through all of them.  Even though there are text boxes, buttons, and links as part of that control, they must be TABBED through.  If I try using any of the usual single letter quick browsing commands I am instantly thrown back into the main body of the page itself and out of the "Your Account" control entirely.

             If I want to go back to that control, or even get to it in the first place, I find it far easier to use the browser search for "Your Account," hitting Escape to close the browser search once it's found, then NVDA has focus on the control and you can hit enter and start tabbing.

             I am using the latest version of Edge Dev (meaning I literally did the latest update after I'd opened that page, causing Edge Dev to restart).  It should work similarly under any Chromium-based browser, and probably Firefox and other non-Chromium-based browsers, too.

             Give this a whirl and let me know how it works for you.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 

 

As a semi-useless aside, but it may prove instructive if we have HTML experts reading, the only way I knew that "Your Account" was classed as a button was by opening the page source for the simmarket.com page, searching for "Your Account" in the source, and finding this line:

<li class="header_user_menu_item toggle-click" id="header-user-menu-container_account"><button type="button" class="btn-header" onClick="toggle_account_menu(this);">Your Account</button><div id="account-menu" class="header-menu-container">

There's lots more that follows that for the display of all of the bits unveiled when that control is activated.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 

Gene
 

I don’t know what you see if you are logged in, but I see all these links without logging in.  Do you see them if you aren’t logged in? 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2020 9:00 PM
Subject: [nvda] expanding links that won't expand
 

I can't really describe this well, but there are links on some pages where if you click them, a menu pops out. I can get this to work on the mac but not that much in windows under nvda 19.2 and 19.3, actually I've ben having the issue since last year. I think they call these fly out menus. I think this is the job of the web dev to fix but is there a work around i"m missing. Here's an example

  1. Go to simmarket.com
  2. I'm not sure if you have to be log in for this but click the my account link. You should see "my wish list, my cart, my orders etc. I cannot get this to expand even after playing with it. Sometimes I can route with nvda backspace but even then after trying that trick the page does not show these options. I'm beginning to go nuts as this is how I can get my keys and stuff for softwares and downloads to updates.

Take care and I hope that helps a bit.

And by the way contacting these devs is not that easy. I've already tried, they don't really care.

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website.

to subscribe to the feed click here and you can also follow us on twitter

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on [twitch.](http://twitch.tv/ke7zum] Feel free to give the channel a follow and see what is up there.

For stream archives, products you can buy and more visit my main lbry page and my tffp lbry page YOu will also be able to buy some of my products and eBooks there.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

Jonathan COHN
 

So this shows the web developer knows just enough ARIA to get them in trouble. The first rule of ARIA is don't use ARIA if you don't need to.

Sarah k Alawami
 

In this case it does help, however the Canada air express site which I do not have. Has a link that might not work this way. You have to hit enter on a link which will then expand to download the aircraft in question. I cannot be of any help here as I don't deal with those guys. Lol! But yeah thanks. I think I can grow some of the hair I have ben pulling out back, and i can finally get my orders and download links and stuff I need.

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website.

to subscribe to the feed click here and you can also follow us on twitter

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on [twitch.](http://twitch.tv/ke7zum] Feel free to give the channel a follow and see what is up there.

For stream archives, products you can buy and more visit my main lbry page and my tffp lbry page YOu will also be able to buy some of my products and eBooks there.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 1 Apr 2020, at 20:15, Brian Vogel wrote:

Sarah,

            First and foremost, thank you for posting a URL for myself and all other assistants.  I presume you mean the "Your Account" control which, by the way, is not a link, although the View Cart and Contact Us immediately next to it are both links.

            In looking at the page source for the Your Account control, it is a button, but what a mutant version of a button.  If you are using a mouse like I do, when you hover over this control the entire structure unveils itself for you to either point and click or click into text boxes like those for username and password.  Under NVDA 2019.3.1, I find that I can get to it using the quick browsing 'b' command for buttons only when the page has first loaded, and once I land on it hitting enter opens up the whole range of controls it unveils.  You can then TAB your way through all of them.  Even though there are text boxes, buttons, and links as part of that control, they must be TABBED through.  If I try using any of the usual single letter quick browsing commands I am instantly thrown back into the main body of the page itself and out of the "Your Account" control entirely.

             If I want to go back to that control, or even get to it in the first place, I find it far easier to use the browser search for "Your Account," hitting Escape to close the browser search once it's found, then NVDA has focus on the control and you can hit enter and start tabbing.

             I am using the latest version of Edge Dev (meaning I literally did the latest update after I'd opened that page, causing Edge Dev to restart).  It should work similarly under any Chromium-based browser, and probably Firefox and other non-Chromium-based browsers, too.

             Give this a whirl and let me know how it works for you.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 

Sarah k Alawami
 

jYep, exactly, and if it is not the dev it is probably the CMS they are using what ever that i snow a days.

Take care

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website.

to subscribe to the feed click here and you can also follow us on twitter

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on [twitch.](http://twitch.tv/ke7zum] Feel free to give the channel a follow and see what is up there.

For stream archives, products you can buy and more visit my main lbry page and my tffp lbry page YOu will also be able to buy some of my products and eBooks there.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 2 Apr 2020, at 7:44, Cohn, Jonathan wrote:

So this shows the web developer knows just enough ARIA to get them in trouble. The first rule of ARIA is don't use ARIA if you don't need to.

 

On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 02:04 PM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
however the Canada air express site which I do not have. Has a link that might not work this way.
I keep trying to explain, and apparently to little avail, that web coding is an extremely fluid environment.  It's still in the process of actively being invented "beyond the basics" that have been around almost since the beginning.

There will be things that will not be accessible for a variety of reasons, some of which can be screen reader related and others that originate in what's being exposed to the screen reader itself.   And I expect it will continue to be this way for years, as the brilliant (and not so brilliant) young things keep coming up with new ideas in regard to how to present things on webpages.   It's going to be a game of catch-up on steroids.

But when an issue is found, if the page in question does not require one to be logged in, it makes it so much easier when the page address, as well as identification of the troublesome element, is offered.   I thank you again for having been so explicit in doing both.  It made actually helping you possible.  

It's also sometimes possible, like this time, to make sense of what's going on if the page source code is provided in those instances where the page is one after a point where you've logged in.  Page source code does not contain any of the information you've entered on a form, for instance, but is the HTML code used to present that page to you, the end user.  If that simmarket.com "Your Account" control had been behind a login, you could still use your web browser's Show Source command to have the HTML source code for the page opened up in a different tab.  If that's then copied and pasted into an MS-Word document, and you can identify the control label where you're getting stuck, if that can be found and the object type deciphered there might be a workaround.  By the way, in Chromium-based browsers the Show source keyboard shortcut for the web page you're viewing is CTRL+U, and you cannot have focus in a text box or other control when you issue that command.  CTRL+U also works in Firefox.  A web search on "show page source" with the name of the browser you're using, if it's not one already mentioned, should turn up the keyboard shortcut for that given browser.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 

Jonathan COHN
 

Another way to capture a portion of a web page coding is to use the inspect element. This often shows up in the contextual menu, but not always. Although this presents a panel that is more complex than show source, it does put your cursor directly on the part of the code that you right clicked on. . Then moving up a line or two and using the application key again you can usually copy the appropriate HTML.

Jonathan

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Date: Thursday, April 2, 2020 at 4:24 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] expanding links that won't expand

External email alert: Be wary of links & attachments.

On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 02:04 PM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

however the Canada air express site which I do not have. Has a link that might not work this way.

I keep trying to explain, and apparently to little avail, that web coding is an extremely fluid environment.  It's still in the process of actively being invented "beyond the basics" that have been around almost since the beginning.

There will be things that will not be accessible for a variety of reasons, some of which can be screen reader related and others that originate in what's being exposed to the screen reader itself.   And I expect it will continue to be this way for years, as the brilliant (and not so brilliant) young things keep coming up with new ideas in regard to how to present things on webpages.   It's going to be a game of catch-up on steroids.

But when an issue is found, if the page in question does not require one to be logged in, it makes it so much easier when the page address, as well as identification of the troublesome element, is offered.   I thank you again for having been so explicit in doing both.  It made actually helping you possible.  

It's also sometimes possible, like this time, to make sense of what's going on if the page source code is provided in those instances where the page is one after a point where you've logged in.  Page source code does not contain any of the information you've entered on a form, for instance, but is the HTML code used to present that page to you, the end user.  If that simmarket.com "Your Account" control had been behind a login, you could still use your web browser's Show Source command to have the HTML source code for the page opened up in a different tab.  If that's then copied and pasted into an MS-Word document, and you can identify the control label where you're getting stuck, if that can be found and the object type deciphered there might be a workaround.  By the way, in Chromium-based browsers the Show source keyboard shortcut for the web page you're viewing is CTRL+U, and you cannot have focus in a text box or other control when you issue that command.  CTRL+U also works in Firefox.  A web search on "show page source" with the name of the browser you're using, if it's not one already mentioned, should turn up the keyboard shortcut for that given browser.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 

 

Jonathan,

           Heaven knows if someone can use the technique you suggest, it's far preferable.  I was just going for something that was dirt simple as far as generating the source code which puts the majority of the burden on the person doing the analysis of it after the fact.

           I love your technique, I just don't know how many will be successful with it, but they should try, for sure.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 

Daniel Damacena
 

Try to focus the menu and bring the mouse to it. It works to me.

Em 01/04/2020 23:00, Sarah k Alawami escreveu:

I can't really describe this well, but there are links on some pages where if you click them, a menu pops out. I can get this to work on the mac but not that much in windows under nvda 19.2 and 19.3, actually I've ben having the issue since last year. I think they call these fly out menus. I think this is the job of the web dev to fix but is there a work around i"m missing. Here's an example

  1. Go to simmarket.com
  2. I'm not sure if you have to be log in for this but click the my account link. You should see "my wish list, my cart, my orders etc. I cannot get this to expand even after playing with it. Sometimes I can route with nvda backspace but even then after trying that trick the page does not show these options. I'm beginning to go nuts as this is how I can get my keys and stuff for softwares and downloads to updates.

Take care and I hope that helps a bit.

And by the way contacting these devs is not that easy. I've already tried, they don't really care.

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website.

to subscribe to the feed click here and you can also follow us on twitter

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on [twitch.](http://twitch.tv/ke7zum] Feel free to give the channel a follow and see what is up there.

For stream archives, products you can buy and more visit my main lbry page and my tffp lbry page YOu will also be able to buy some of my products and eBooks there.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

Sarah k Alawami
 

Yep, fails for me almost every single time. I have to "play" with the link. Not very fun, and works about maybe 10 percent of the time.

Take care

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website.

to subscribe to the feed click here and you can also follow us on twitter

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on [twitch.](http://twitch.tv/ke7zum] Feel free to give the channel a follow and see what is up there.

For stream archives, products you can buy and more visit my main lbry page and my tffp lbry page YOu will also be able to buy some of my products and eBooks there.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 3 Apr 2020, at 15:15, Daniel Damacena wrote:

Try to focus the menu and bring the mouse to it. It works to me.

Em 01/04/2020 23:00, Sarah k Alawami escreveu:

I can't really describe this well, but there are links on some pages where if you click them, a menu pops out. I can get this to work on the mac but not that much in windows under nvda 19.2 and 19.3, actually I've ben having the issue since last year. I think they call these fly out menus. I think this is the job of the web dev to fix but is there a work around i"m missing. Here's an example

  1. Go to simmarket.com
  2. I'm not sure if you have to be log in for this but click the my account link. You should see "my wish list, my cart, my orders etc. I cannot get this to expand even after playing with it. Sometimes I can route with nvda backspace but even then after trying that trick the page does not show these options. I'm beginning to go nuts as this is how I can get my keys and stuff for softwares and downloads to updates.

Take care and I hope that helps a bit.

And by the way contacting these devs is not that easy. I've already tried, they don't really care.

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website.

to subscribe to the feed click here and you can also follow us on twitter

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on [twitch.](http://twitch.tv/ke7zum] Feel free to give the channel a follow and see what is up there.

For stream archives, products you can buy and more visit my main lbry page and my tffp lbry page YOu will also be able to buy some of my products and eBooks there.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

Gene
 

Are these mouse over links? It sounds as though they are. JAWS has a
way to work with them. No other screen-reader I am aware of has that
feature, as far as I know. You may want to try a JAWS demo and see if
you can use it for that purpose.

If you issue a certain command, the mouse over link will respond as
though you hovered a mouse over it. You won't follow the link. The
page will change in some way and JAWS will tell you if the page
changes and if it changes in a way you can work with such as at line
14. You can issue a command and move to that line. When you are
finished, you can return to your previous position using another
command. Its been years since I played with this and you will have to
consult the manual or training material unless someone here knows and
tells you the commands.

Gene

On 4/3/20, Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@...> wrote:
Yep, fails for me almost every single time. I have to "play" with the
link. Not very fun, and works about maybe 10 percent of the time.

Take care

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our
[website.](http://www.tffppodcast.com)

to subscribe to the feed click [here](http://feeds.feedburner.com/tffp)
and you can also [follow us on twitter](http://twitter.com/tffppodcast)

Our [discord](http://discord.tffppodcast.com) is where you will know
when we go live on [twitch.](http://twitch.tv/ke7zum] Feel free to give
the channel a follow and see what is up there.

For stream archives, products you can buy and more visit [my main lbry
page](http://lbry.tv/@ke7zum) and my [tffp lbry
page](http://lbry.tv/@tffppodcast) YOu will also be able to buy some of
my products and eBooks there.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go
[here](Http://patreon.com/tffppodcast)

On 3 Apr 2020, at 15:15, Daniel Damacena wrote:

Try to focus the menu and bring the mouse to it. It works to me.

Em 01/04/2020 23:00, Sarah k Alawami escreveu:

I can't really describe this well, but there are links on some pages
where if you click them, a menu pops out. I can get this to work on
the mac but not that much in windows under nvda 19.2 and 19.3,
actually I've ben having the issue since last year. I think they call
these fly out menus. I think this is the job of the web dev to fix
but is there a work around i"m missing. Here's an example

1. Go to simmarket.com
2. I'm not sure if you have to be log in for this but click the my
account link. You should see "my wish list, my cart, my orders
etc. I cannot get this to expand even after playing with it.
Sometimes I can route with nvda backspace but even then after
trying that trick the page does not show these options. I'm
beginning to go nuts as this is how I can get my keys and stuff
for softwares and downloads to updates.

Take care and I hope that helps a bit.

And by the way contacting these devs is not that easy. I've already
tried, they don't really care.

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website.
<http://www.tffppodcast.com>

to subscribe to the feed click here
<http://feeds.feedburner.com/tffp> and you can also follow us on
twitter <http://twitter.com/tffppodcast>

Our discord <http://discord.tffppodcast.com> is where you will know
when we go live on [twitch.](http://twitch.tv/ke7zum] Feel free to
give the channel a follow and see what is up there.

For stream archives, products you can buy and more visit my main lbry
page <http://lbry.tv/@ke7zum> and my tffp lbry page
<http://lbry.tv/@tffppodcast> YOu will also be able to buy some of my
products and eBooks there.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here
<Http://patreon.com/tffppodcast>





Sarah k Alawami
 

Actually in this case these links sometimes fail with jaws as well. In fact I've heard complaints that they often fail with jaws for some reason, the menues do not fly out like they should. Is there an add on for NVDA or a way to improve this in the core? Sorry if I'm using the wrong language, I do not code.

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website.

to subscribe to the feed click here and you can also follow us on twitter

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on [twitch.](http://twitch.tv/ke7zum] Feel free to give the channel a follow and see what is up there.

For stream archives, products you can buy and more visit my main lbry page and my tffp lbry page YOu will also be able to buy some of my products and eBooks there.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 3 Apr 2020, at 19:06, Gene wrote:

Are these mouse over links? It sounds as though they are. JAWS has a
way to work with them. No other screen-reader I am aware of has that
feature, as far as I know. You may want to try a JAWS demo and see if
you can use it for that purpose.

If you issue a certain command, the mouse over link will respond as
though you hovered a mouse over it. You won't follow the link. The
page will change in some way and JAWS will tell you if the page
changes and if it changes in a way you can work with such as at line
14. You can issue a command and move to that line. When you are
finished, you can return to your previous position using another
command. Its been years since I played with this and you will have to
consult the manual or training material unless someone here knows and
tells you the commands.

Gene

On 4/3/20, Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@...> wrote:

Yep, fails for me almost every single time. I have to "play" with the
link. Not very fun, and works about maybe 10 percent of the time.

Take care

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our
[website.](http://www.tffppodcast.com)

to subscribe to the feed click [here](http://feeds.feedburner.com/tffp)
and you can also [follow us on twitter](http://twitter.com/tffppodcast)

Our [discord](http://discord.tffppodcast.com) is where you will know
when we go live on [twitch.](http://twitch.tv/ke7zum] Feel free to give
the channel a follow and see what is up there.

For stream archives, products you can buy and more visit [my main lbry
page](http://lbry.tv/@ke7zum) and my [tffp lbry
page](http://lbry.tv/@tffppodcast) YOu will also be able to buy some of
my products and eBooks there.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go
[here](Http://patreon.com/tffppodcast)

On 3 Apr 2020, at 15:15, Daniel Damacena wrote:

Try to focus the menu and bring the mouse to it. It works to me.

Em 01/04/2020 23:00, Sarah k Alawami escreveu:

I can't really describe this well, but there are links on some pages
where if you click them, a menu pops out. I can get this to work on
the mac but not that much in windows under nvda 19.2 and 19.3,
actually I've ben having the issue since last year. I think they call
these fly out menus. I think this is the job of the web dev to fix
but is there a work around i"m missing. Here's an example

1. Go to simmarket.com
2. I'm not sure if you have to be log in for this but click the my
account link. You should see "my wish list, my cart, my orders
etc. I cannot get this to expand even after playing with it.
Sometimes I can route with nvda backspace but even then after
trying that trick the page does not show these options. I'm
beginning to go nuts as this is how I can get my keys and stuff
for softwares and downloads to updates.

Take care and I hope that helps a bit.

And by the way contacting these devs is not that easy. I've already
tried, they don't really care.

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website.
<http://www.tffppodcast.com>

to subscribe to the feed click here
<http://feeds.feedburner.com/tffp> and you can also follow us on
twitter <http://twitter.com/tffppodcast>

Our discord <http://discord.tffppodcast.com> is where you will know
when we go live on [twitch.](http://twitch.tv/ke7zum] Feel free to
give the channel a follow and see what is up there.

For stream archives, products you can buy and more visit my main lbry
page <http://lbry.tv/@ke7zum> and my tffp lbry page
<http://lbry.tv/@tffppodcast> YOu will also be able to buy some of my
products and eBooks there.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here
<Http://patreon.com/tffppodcast>