Files and folders and drives; properties


Monte Single
 

Hi List,

 

I am using current nvda and win 20h2.

 

 

Often, I want to know the properties of  Files and folders and drives;

I select the item I want and press  alt+enter.

How do I move through the material displayed on the properties page.

Currently I have to hear it all read.

There is a faster way?

Line by line?

 

Cheers,

 

Monte

 


Quentin Christensen
 

You can use object navigation to move through the objects in that dialog.  As many of the items are read only and cannot get normal keyboard focus, you can't tab or arrow to them.

Press NVDA+numpad 4 (laptop: NVDA+shift+left arrow) to move to the previous object.
Press NVDA+numpad 6 (laptop: NVDA+shift+right arrow) to move to the next object.


Or the Basic Training for NVDA module from: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

(The user guide has the basic keystrokes, the training material goes through it in more detail, with step-by-step activities).

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Thu, Mar 18, 2021 at 2:53 PM Monte Single <mrsingle@...> wrote:

Hi List,

 

I am using current nvda and win 20h2.

 

 

Often, I want to know the properties of  Files and folders and drives;

I select the item I want and press  alt+enter.

How do I move through the material displayed on the properties page.

Currently I have to hear it all read.

There is a faster way?

Line by line?

 

Cheers,

 

Monte

 



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Gene
 

If you are using the desktop, the easiest way is the following:
When the properties dialog opens, issue the command shift numpad 7 to move to the top of the screen.

Move down by line with numpad 9. You will learn how many lines to move down to get to what you want. I think its about 7 times to hear the amount of used disk space and one or two more lines to hear the size the file is. You'll have to see, I move quickly and don't pay much attention until I get to what or about what I want.

You don't have to go into review mode. These are object review commands.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Monte Single
Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2021 10:51 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Files and folders and drives; properties



Hi List,



I am using current nvda and win 20h2.





Often, I want to know the properties of Files and folders and drives;

I select the item I want and press alt+enter.

How do I move through the material displayed on the properties page.

Currently I have to hear it all read.

There is a faster way?

Line by line?



Cheers,



Monte


Luke Davis
 

Gene's solution is what I was going to suggest, except that as described it probably won't work.

In order to use this, you must first go into Screen Review mode, by pressing NVDA+numpad7.

Once you do that, follow Gene's instructions.

Don't forget to return to object review mode after, by pressing NVDA+numpad1.

These are desktop layout commands, rtfm for the laptop versions.

Luke

On Thu, 18 Mar 2021, Gene wrote:

When the properties dialog opens, issue the command shift numpad 7 to move to the top of the screen.
Move down by line with numpad 9. You will learn how many lines to move down
[.]
You don't have to go into review mode. These are object review commands.


Monte Single
 

Thanks to Quentin, Luke and Gene.

I now read prop sheets back and forth.

In a few weeks,  the keystrokes will be ingrained, I hope!

 

Cheers,

 

Monte

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Quentin Christensen
Sent: March 17, 2021 10:01 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Files and folders and drives; properties

 

You can use object navigation to move through the objects in that dialog.  As many of the items are read only and cannot get normal keyboard focus, you can't tab or arrow to them.

 

Press NVDA+numpad 4 (laptop: NVDA+shift+left arrow) to move to the previous object.

Press NVDA+numpad 6 (laptop: NVDA+shift+right arrow) to move to the next object.

 

 

Or the Basic Training for NVDA module from: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

 

(The user guide has the basic keystrokes, the training material goes through it in more detail, with step-by-step activities).

 

Kind regards

 

Quentin.

 

On Thu, Mar 18, 2021 at 2:53 PM Monte Single <mrsingle@...> wrote:

Hi List,

 

I am using current nvda and win 20h2.

 

 

Often, I want to know the properties of  Files and folders and drives;

I select the item I want and press  alt+enter.

How do I move through the material displayed on the properties page.

Currently I have to hear it all read.

There is a faster way?

Line by line?

 

Cheers,

 

Monte

 


 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 


Gene
 

That isn't correct. At least it isn't correct in the versions of Windows I've used. While you can go into review mode and do this, in this case, it isn't necessary. Staying in object review works here because the dialog is one object. You can therefore use the commands I gave in object mode. I didn't know it was all one object until I tried moving this way in the dialog while staying in object navigation mode. I did so because it’s a little more convenient not to issue the extra commands to go into review mode, then return to object navigation. So I tried object navigation first in the dialog.

Try it and you'll see that it works if Windows 10 is like other versions of Windows in this respect.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Luke Davis
Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2021 12:46 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Files and folders and drives; properties

Gene's solution is what I was going to suggest, except that as described it
probably won't work.

In order to use this, you must first go into Screen Review mode, by pressing
NVDA+numpad7.

Once you do that, follow Gene's instructions.

Don't forget to return to object review mode after, by pressing NVDA+numpad1.

These are desktop layout commands, rtfm for the laptop versions.

Luke

On Thu, 18 Mar 2021, Gene wrote:

When the properties dialog opens, issue the command shift numpad 7 to move to the top of the screen.
Move down by line with numpad 9. You will learn how many lines to move down
[.]
You don't have to go into review mode. These are object review commands.


Luke Davis
 

Gene wrote:

Try it and you'll see that it works if Windows 10 is like other versions of Windows in this respect.
The below shows an attempt to view properties of a file. Captured using the NVDA speech viewer, with command keys on to show my work.
I also made sure I was in object review (shown).
NVDA Alpha, Windows 10 (2004).

=====

Items View list
000testFolder 1 of 519
NVDA+numpad 1
Object review
000testFolder
alt+enter
000testFolder Properties dialog
General property page Type: File folder
Location: C:\Users\luke\AppData\Local\Temp
Size: 0 bytes
Size on disk: 0 bytes
Contains: 0 Files, 0 Folders
Created: Thursday, December 17, 2020, 12:43:20 AM
Attributes:
Read-only (Only applies to files in folder) check box half checked Alt+r
shift+numpad 7
Read-only (Only applies to files in folder)
numpad 9
Bottom
Read-only (Only applies to files in folder)
numpad 7
Top
Read-only (Only applies to files in folder)
NVDA+numpad 7
Screen review
Read-only (Only applies to files in folder)
shift+numpad 7
000testFolder
numpad 9
Type: File folder
numpad 9
Location: C:\Users\luke\AppData\Local\Temp
numpad 9
Size: 0 bytes
numpad 9
Size on disk: 0 bytes
numpad 9
Contains: 0 Files, 0 Folders
numpad 9
Created: Thursday, December 17, 2020, 12:43:20 AM
numpad 9
Attributes:
numpad 9
Read-only (Only applies to files in folder)
numpad 9
Hidden
numpad 9
Advanced...
numpad 9
blank
numpad 9
OK Cancel Apply
NVDA+numpad 1
Object review
OK
numpad 7
Top
OK
shift+numpad 7
OK

=====

My understanding is that the object that is the half-checked checkbox, acquires focus, and prevents object review from going anywhere else. Which is how it's supposed to work.

Luke

On Thu, 18 Mar 2021, Gene wrote:

That isn't correct. At least it isn't correct in the versions of Windows I've used. While you can go into review mode and do this, in this case, it isn't necessary. Staying in object review works here because the dialog is one object. You can therefore use the commands I gave in object mode. I didn't know it was all one object until I tried moving this way in the dialog while staying in object navigation mode. I did so because it’s a little more convenient not to issue the extra commands to go into review mode, then return to object navigation. So I tried object navigation first in the dialog.


Gene
 

There may be something different in Windows 10 about what is an object in that dialog. But I find it odd that you evidently get a message that says only applies to files in folder. How would whatever if generating the message know what you are doing and what the command applies to? I wonder if this is an NVDA generated message. What happens if you are in a folder and on a specific file? Do you get the same message when in properties for a single file?

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Luke Davis
Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2021 4:43 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Files and folders and drives; properties

Gene wrote:

Try it and you'll see that it works if Windows 10 is like other versions of
Windows in this respect.
The below shows an attempt to view properties of a file. Captured using the NVDA
speech viewer, with command keys on to show my work.
I also made sure I was in object review (shown).
NVDA Alpha, Windows 10 (2004).

=====

Items View list
000testFolder 1 of 519
NVDA+numpad 1
Object review
000testFolder
alt+enter
000testFolder Properties dialog
General property page Type: File folder
Location: C:\Users\luke\AppData\Local\Temp
Size: 0 bytes
Size on disk: 0 bytes
Contains: 0 Files, 0 Folders
Created: Thursday, December 17, 2020, 12:43:20 AM
Attributes:
Read-only (Only applies to files in folder) check box half checked Alt+r
shift+numpad 7
Read-only (Only applies to files in folder)
numpad 9
Bottom
Read-only (Only applies to files in folder)
numpad 7
Top
Read-only (Only applies to files in folder)
NVDA+numpad 7
Screen review
Read-only (Only applies to files in folder)
shift+numpad 7
000testFolder
numpad 9
Type: File folder
numpad 9
Location: C:\Users\luke\AppData\Local\Temp
numpad 9
Size: 0 bytes
numpad 9
Size on disk: 0 bytes
numpad 9
Contains: 0 Files, 0 Folders
numpad 9
Created: Thursday, December 17, 2020, 12:43:20 AM
numpad 9
Attributes:
numpad 9
Read-only (Only applies to files in folder)
numpad 9
Hidden
numpad 9
Advanced...
numpad 9
blank
numpad 9
OK Cancel Apply
NVDA+numpad 1
Object review
OK
numpad 7
Top
OK
shift+numpad 7
OK

=====

My understanding is that the object that is the half-checked checkbox, acquires
focus, and prevents object review from going anywhere else. Which is how it's
supposed to work.

Luke

On Thu, 18 Mar 2021, Gene wrote:

That isn't correct. At least it isn't correct in the versions of Windows I've
used. While you can go into review mode and do this, in this case, it isn't
necessary. Staying in object review works here because the dialog is one
object. You can therefore use the commands I gave in object mode. I didn't
know it was all one object until I tried moving this way in the dialog while
staying in object navigation mode. I did so because it’s a little more
convenient not to issue the extra commands to go into review mode, then
return to object navigation. So I tried object navigation first in the
dialog.


Luke Davis
 

I get the same behavior, but the checkbox object that is first focused is just called "Read only", if I do this on a file rather than a folder.

I believe, in the folder context, it is informing that the files in the folder will be read-only, not the folder itself.

I have never tried to make a folder read-only in Windows, so don't know what effects might follow.

Luke

On Thu, 18 Mar 2021, Gene wrote:

that dialog. But I find it odd that you evidently get a message that says only applies to files in folder. How would whatever if generating the message know what you are doing and what the command applies to? I wonder if this is an NVDA generated message. What happens if you are in a folder and on a specific file? Do you get the same message when in properties for a single file?


 

hi.
honestly, i dont use properties most of times.
in nvda preferences, object presentation, i just checked report
tooltips and nvda reads such informations automaticly for me.
i believe that its the most simple solution about reading properties!

On 3/18/21, Monte Single <mrsingle@sasktel.net> wrote:
Hi List,



I am using current nvda and win 20h2.





Often, I want to know the properties of Files and folders and drives;

I select the item I want and press alt+enter.

How do I move through the material displayed on the properties page.

Currently I have to hear it all read.

There is a faster way?

Line by line?



Cheers,



Monte








--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali


Monte Single
 

Hi Zara,

When the nvda preferences is set to "tool tips", does that cause a lot of unnecessary chatter?

Cheers,

Montt

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of zahra
Sent: March 19, 2021 2:37 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Files and folders and drives; properties

hi.
honestly, i dont use properties most of times.
in nvda preferences, object presentation, i just checked report tooltips and nvda reads such informations automaticly for me.
i believe that its the most simple solution about reading properties!

On 3/18/21, Monte Single <mrsingle@sasktel.net> wrote:
Hi List,



I am using current nvda and win 20h2.





Often, I want to know the properties of Files and folders and drives;

I select the item I want and press alt+enter.

How do I move through the material displayed on the properties page.

Currently I have to hear it all read.

There is a faster way?

Line by line?



Cheers,



Monte









--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali


 

hi.
do you mean extra informations or wrong informations?
some people say that this option should be unchecked.
but i always use it and i am satisfied of it.
but sometimes in teamtalk for example: it reads the name of person
incorrectly and i should use up arrow and down arrow key again.
in general, i am satisfied of it and love it.
and also, because i did not learn object navigation and dont use
screen review, very offten, its a very helpful feature for me that
nvda reports the descriptions and tooltips automaticly.
i forgot to say,
i am very glad that nvda even describes the items in control panel,
and different items like my document, my computer, etc.

On 3/19/21, Monte Single <mrsingle@sasktel.net> wrote:
Hi Zara,

When the nvda preferences is set to "tool tips", does that cause a lot of
unnecessary chatter?

Cheers,

Montt

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of zahra
Sent: March 19, 2021 2:37 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Files and folders and drives; properties

hi.
honestly, i dont use properties most of times.
in nvda preferences, object presentation, i just checked report tooltips and
nvda reads such informations automaticly for me.
i believe that its the most simple solution about reading properties!

On 3/18/21, Monte Single <mrsingle@sasktel.net> wrote:
Hi List,



I am using current nvda and win 20h2.





Often, I want to know the properties of Files and folders and drives;

I select the item I want and press alt+enter.

How do I move through the material displayed on the properties page.

Currently I have to hear it all read.

There is a faster way?

Line by line?



Cheers,



Monte









--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali










--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali


Gene
 

As far as speech is concerned, it will stop as soon as you issue a command such as control, down arrow, or any other command that stops the current speech which is actually any keyboard command.

To hear the information read automatically, you will have to have files and folders displayed using details rather than list.

While you can easily stop speech, you may not want to hear it automatically and have to stop it. You will also hear descriptions at other times, such as on the desktop.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Monte Single
Sent: Friday, March 19, 2021 7:25 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Files and folders and drives; properties

Hi Zara,

When the nvda preferences is set to "tool tips", does that cause a lot of unnecessary chatter?

Cheers,

Montt

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of zahra
Sent: March 19, 2021 2:37 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Files and folders and drives; properties

hi.
honestly, i dont use properties most of times.
in nvda preferences, object presentation, i just checked report tooltips and nvda reads such informations automaticly for me.
i believe that its the most simple solution about reading properties!

On 3/18/21, Monte Single <mrsingle@sasktel.net> wrote:
Hi List,



I am using current nvda and win 20h2.





Often, I want to know the properties of Files and folders and drives;

I select the item I want and press alt+enter.

How do I move through the material displayed on the properties page.

Currently I have to hear it all read.

There is a faster way?

Line by line?



Cheers,



Monte









--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali


Gene
 

Also, while read tool tips may be the simplest solution, it may not be to your best advantage. It may be something you will want to use, but I think it is better to get comfortable using screen review and/or object review, whatever you are using here NVDA commands. Whatever you are using is convenient and important for a lot of other uses and using the easiest solution before you get comfortable using these commands may be a disincentive to using them comfortably and well.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Gene via groups.io
Sent: Friday, March 19, 2021 7:40 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Files and folders and drives; properties

As far as speech is concerned, it will stop as soon as you issue a command
such as control, down arrow, or any other command that stops the current
speech which is actually any keyboard command.

To hear the information read automatically, you will have to have files and
folders displayed using details rather than list.

While you can easily stop speech, you may not want to hear it automatically
and have to stop it. You will also hear descriptions at other times, such
as on the desktop.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Monte Single
Sent: Friday, March 19, 2021 7:25 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Files and folders and drives; properties

Hi Zara,

When the nvda preferences is set to "tool tips", does that cause a lot of
unnecessary chatter?

Cheers,

Montt

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of zahra
Sent: March 19, 2021 2:37 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Files and folders and drives; properties

hi.
honestly, i dont use properties most of times.
in nvda preferences, object presentation, i just checked report tooltips and
nvda reads such informations automaticly for me.
i believe that its the most simple solution about reading properties!

On 3/18/21, Monte Single <mrsingle@sasktel.net> wrote:
Hi List,



I am using current nvda and win 20h2.





Often, I want to know the properties of Files and folders and drives;

I select the item I want and press alt+enter.

How do I move through the material displayed on the properties page.

Currently I have to hear it all read.

There is a faster way?

Line by line?



Cheers,



Monte









--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali


 

On Fri, Mar 19, 2021 at 08:40 AM, Gene wrote:
As far as speech is concerned, it will stop as soon as you issue a command such as control,
-
One of the first things I teach is how to shut the screen reader up, and I generally teach that as, "Hit the control or escape key."  I never really thought about issuing other commands, and it's good to know that trick, too.

Many of my clients over the years have lost their sight relatively recently, and are first time screen reader users.  With the advent of the newer virtually human sounding synthesizers it was interesting to see how really deeply engrained social strictures about "not interrupting someone" came into play with regard to the screen reader reading.  People hear a human voice and everything you know about what you do, and do not, do in regard to another person comes into play.

Disabusing them of the notion that any deference need be given the screen reader is an overarching goal early on.  You can shut it up whenever you so choose and no offense will be taken!
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Any idiot can face a crisis. It's the day-to-day living that wears you out.

      ~ Anton Chekhov

 


Gene
 

Any other command stops speech while executing the other command. Thus, control need only be used when you want to stop speech and take no other action.

It seems to me that some people believe that, for some reason, you have to let speech run until it is finished. Maybe they think they might damage the computer if they stop it.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Friday, March 19, 2021 10:51 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Files and folders and drives; properties

On Fri, Mar 19, 2021 at 08:40 AM, Gene wrote:
As far as speech is concerned, it will stop as soon as you issue a command such as control,-
One of the first things I teach is how to shut the screen reader up, and I generally teach that as, "Hit the control or escape key." I never really thought about issuing other commands, and it's good to know that trick, too.

Many of my clients over the years have lost their sight relatively recently, and are first time screen reader users. With the advent of the newer virtually human sounding synthesizers it was interesting to see how really deeply engrained social strictures about "not interrupting someone" came into play with regard to the screen reader reading. People hear a human voice and everything you know about what you do, and do not, do in regard to another person comes into play.

Disabusing them of the notion that any deference need be given the screen reader is an overarching goal early on. You can shut it up whenever you so choose and no offense will be taken!

--


Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042

Any idiot can face a crisis. It's the day-to-day living that wears you out.

~ Anton Chekhov


Arlene
 

Yes, From day one when I learned how to use the computer and screen reader. It was always the control key to silence it. I think it’s all the same. I’ve used system access besides Jaws and NVDA. They’re all the same when you silence them.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Brian Vogel
Sent: March 19, 2021 8:51 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Files and folders and drives; properties

 

On Fri, Mar 19, 2021 at 08:40 AM, Gene wrote:

As far as speech is concerned, it will stop as soon as you issue a command such as control,

-
One of the first things I teach is how to shut the screen reader up, and I generally teach that as, "Hit the control or escape key."  I never really thought about issuing other commands, and it's good to know that trick, too.

Many of my clients over the years have lost their sight relatively recently, and are first time screen reader users.  With the advent of the newer virtually human sounding synthesizers it was interesting to see how really deeply engrained social strictures about "not interrupting someone" came into play with regard to the screen reader reading.  People hear a human voice and everything you know about what you do, and do not, do in regard to another person comes into play.

Disabusing them of the notion that any deference need be given the screen reader is an overarching goal early on.  You can shut it up whenever you so choose and no offense will be taken!
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Any idiot can face a crisis. It's the day-to-day living that wears you out.

      ~ Anton Chekhov

 

 


George McCoy
 

Use object navigation to read items in the properties window.

See the online documentation for details.


George