Focus keeps shifting in NVDA


David Griffith
 

I think I must have inadvertently changed some verbosity setting  or focus  settings in NVDA.

My problem is that is keeps on making announcements from areas of the screen apart from the main Window in which I am working.

So for example I have just been listening to a lecture I recorded in VLC.

However NVDA keeps on interrupting the lecture by announcing things which are not at all useful like  for example most recently, “Show Desktop” and  “no new notifications”” which seem to relate to the Action Centre.

It seems to be announcing items and their status from the notification area and the Task Bar even when the focus is not on that area.

Does anybody know  why this might be happening and what I can do to resume normal focus verbosity.

Obviously I can turn speech off if listening to VLC but this is less useful if I am for example typing in Word.

David Griffith

 

 

or

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


 

My initial suggestion would be turning on Focus Assist in Win10.  If you open Settings and type focus in the search box it's the first item in the list of settings options that shows up in the list beneath the edit box where you're typing.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Always remember others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them.  And then you destroy yourself.

       ~ Richard M. Nixon

 


Tyler Spivey
 

The first thing I would try is disabling NVDA's mouse tracking. You're probably moving the mouse, and it reads what's under it.

On 4/27/2021 5:51 AM, David Griffith wrote:
I think I must have inadvertently changed some verbosity setting  or focus  settings in NVDA.
My problem is that is keeps on making announcements from areas of the screen apart from the main Window in which I am working.
So for example I have just been listening to a lecture I recorded in VLC.
However NVDA keeps on interrupting the lecture by announcing things which are not at all useful like  for example most recently, “Show Desktop” and  “no new notifications”” which seem to relate to the Action Centre.
It seems to be announcing items and their status from the notification area and the Task Bar even when the focus is not on that area.
Does anybody know  why this might be happening and what I can do to resume normal focus verbosity.
Obviously I can turn speech off if listening to VLC but this is less useful if I am for example typing in Word.
David Griffith
or
Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10


Sarah k Alawami
 

Are we sure it’s even a windows issue? I have focus s assist off and I don’t get notifications, I mean I do but I just silence them. I’m used to it. I guess turn off speech for now and see, or leave speech to beeps and you can type in WinWord             and correct mistakes. I did this for years without speech, but I know my way around a keyboard as I used to type dictated reports without speech when my sister got tired.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2021 7:43 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Focus keeps shifting in NVDA

 

My initial suggestion would be turning on Focus Assist in Win10.  If you open Settings and type focus in the search box it's the first item in the list of settings options that shows up in the list beneath the edit box where you're typing.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Always remember others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them.  And then you destroy yourself.

       ~ Richard M. Nixon

 


 

I also should have asked exactly what make and model of computer you're using, and in particular whether this is a laptop with a touchscreen?

I have my doubts about mouse tracking, as far as a regular mouse goes since most don't keep them anywhere near to where they could bump them by accident, and most turn their mousepads off when they're using a screen reader.  But, touchscreens don't get disabled (though they can be) and they do go wonky.  I've replaced a number of them that seem to have ghosts touching them at random places.  I've also disabled that feature for individuals who don't actually use the touchscreen and where that misbehavior is exhibiting itself.  The actual monitor is not the problem, it's the digitizer gone bad.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Always remember others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them.  And then you destroy yourself.

       ~ Richard M. Nixon

 


Luke Davis
 

Brian Vogel wrote:

doubts about mouse tracking, as far as a regular mouse goes since most don't keep them anywhere near to where they could bump them by accident, and most
turn their mousepads off when they're using a screen reader.
Brian, my first thought was about mouse tracking also. Afaik most major laptop brands don't allow turning off the touchpad easily without installing some sort of third party utility, unless you know something about it I don't?

I can do it on my MSI gaming laptop with FN+F3, but none of my HP laptops support it that I've ever been able to find. Same for lower end Dells, I believe.

Luke


 

Luke,

First, before I get into how to completely disable the mousepad, including its left and right click buttons, on any laptop let me restate my opinion:  DON'T do it!!  It makes a lot more sense to mask the actual area that moves the mouse with a thin piece of cardboard (e.g., the back of a notepad or single or doubled over index card) so that the mouse pointer cannot be moved but you have access to the actual left and right click buttons, which are far more reliable when those are called for than any screen reader's emulation is.  At least if those are hard buttons, the mousepads that use a thin area at the bottom left and right sides that act like those buttons when touched are problematic.

One should always check the mousepad/touchpad controls in Control Panel.  In the case of the laptop I'm using, an HP 15 series, that item is Synaptics TouchPad, to determine whether your touchpad supports toggling it on/off as part of its own controls.  I cannot possibly say where these would be located across brands.  It requires looking at the settings to find it.  Some do, some don't.  In the case of many Synaptics TouchPads, there is a setting under Tapping Settings entitled, TouchPad Disable Zone Settings which, if turned on via its checkbox, makes a double tap at the top left corner of the TouchPad toggle it on or off.  If that checkbox is checked, a secondary set of radio buttons with the grouping entitled, Top Left Action, becomes accessible, with the two radio button choices then being Switch TouchPad off for one session or Switch TouchPad off.  I have to believe "session" in this context means "until restarted" while the just plain off will stay off, even after reboot, unless one were to intentionally double tap the upper left corner of the TouchPad.  

In addition, if I open Mouse Properties from Control Panel, many laptops have a checkbox available to Disable internal pointing device when external USB pointing device is attached.  I've seen many people use this, with the dongle for a keyboard-mouse combo, to use the external keyboard but also disable the mousepad at the same time whether the wireless mouse is actually powered on or not.  I've also seen people use this and just attach a USB mouse, then placed "out of the way" as a way to temporarily disable the TouchPad, but such that a mouse for someone sighted is available or that it can be unplugged to allow an assistant access to the mousepad.

Now, after all of the above, you can use Device Manager to disable a mousepad/touchpad, and it will remain off between boots on most systems until you use Device Manager to enable it again:

1. Open Device Manager
2. Expand the Mice and other pointing devices entry.  Under which you should find your touchpad.  In my case, that is Synaptics SMBus TouchPad.
3. Select your TouchPad device.
4. Bring up the context menu and see if you have a Disable option.  Mine does not, because it can be disabled by its own control software.  I have seen some that are able to be disabled.  If you've got a disable option, activate it.  It should now stay disabled until and unless you were to repeat this process and choose Enable from the same context menu.

I personally prefer either masking the touchpad or using the option to disable it when an external pointing device is connected.  It's way easier to reverse.

By the way, if you're worried about the external mouse possibly being bumped or moved, it's a simple matter to make what I call "a hobbled mouse"  or "a treated mouse" where you tape over the laser port on the bottom which is what detects movement over a surface.  When that's taped over, the mouse will not recognize that it's being moved, but the left and right click buttons (and scroll wheel, if it has one) remain available for use. 


--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Always remember others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them.  And then you destroy yourself.

       ~ Richard M. Nixon

 


Gene
 

I’ve seen you discuss using the left click associated with the mouse pad but I want to understand what you are describing.  Are you saying you move the mouse using the NVDA move mouse command, then use the left click associated with the mouse pad rather than the NVDA left click command?  Since the NVDA move mouse command is actually moving what a physical mouse moves, that seems to be what you are saying.
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2021 5:52 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Focus keeps shifting in NVDA
 
Luke,

First, before I get into how to completely disable the mousepad, including its left and right click buttons, on any laptop let me restate my opinion:  DON'T do it!!  It makes a lot more sense to mask the actual area that moves the mouse with a thin piece of cardboard (e.g., the back of a notepad or single or doubled over index card) so that the mouse pointer cannot be moved but you have access to the actual left and right click buttons, which are far more reliable when those are called for than any screen reader's emulation is.  At least if those are hard buttons, the mousepads that use a thin area at the bottom left and right sides that act like those buttons when touched are problematic.

One should always check the mousepad/touchpad controls in Control Panel.  In the case of the laptop I'm using, an HP 15 series, that item is Synaptics TouchPad, to determine whether your touchpad supports toggling it on/off as part of its own controls.  I cannot possibly say where these would be located across brands.  It requires looking at the settings to find it.  Some do, some don't.  In the case of many Synaptics TouchPads, there is a setting under Tapping Settings entitled, TouchPad Disable Zone Settings which, if turned on via its checkbox, makes a double tap at the top left corner of the TouchPad toggle it on or off.  If that checkbox is checked, a secondary set of radio buttons with the grouping entitled, Top Left Action, becomes accessible, with the two radio button choices then being Switch TouchPad off for one session or Switch TouchPad off.  I have to believe "session" in this context means "until restarted" while the just plain off will stay off, even after reboot, unless one were to intentionally double tap the upper left corner of the TouchPad. 

In addition, if I open Mouse Properties from Control Panel, many laptops have a checkbox available to Disable internal pointing device when external USB pointing device is attached.  I've seen many people use this, with the dongle for a keyboard-mouse combo, to use the external keyboard but also disable the mousepad at the same time whether the wireless mouse is actually powered on or not.  I've also seen people use this and just attach a USB mouse, then placed "out of the way" as a way to temporarily disable the TouchPad, but such that a mouse for someone sighted is available or that it can be unplugged to allow an assistant access to the mousepad.

Now, after all of the above, you can use Device Manager to disable a mousepad/touchpad, and it will remain off between boots on most systems until you use Device Manager to enable it again:

1. Open Device Manager
2. Expand the Mice and other pointing devices entry.  Under which you should find your touchpad.  In my case, that is Synaptics SMBus TouchPad.
3. Select your TouchPad device.
4. Bring up the context menu and see if you have a Disable option.  Mine does not, because it can be disabled by its own control software.  I have seen some that are able to be disabled.  If you've got a disable option, activate it.  It should now stay disabled until and unless you were to repeat this process and choose Enable from the same context menu.

I personally prefer either masking the touchpad or using the option to disable it when an external pointing device is connected.  It's way easier to reverse.

By the way, if you're worried about the external mouse possibly being bumped or moved, it's a simple matter to make what I call "a hobbled mouse"  or "a treated mouse" where you tape over the laser port on the bottom which is what detects movement over a surface.  When that's taped over, the mouse will not recognize that it's being moved, but the left and right click buttons (and scroll wheel, if it has one) remain available for use.


--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Always remember others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them.  And then you destroy yourself.

       ~ Richard M. Nixon

 


 

On Tue, Apr 27, 2021 at 07:14 PM, Gene wrote:
Are you saying you move the mouse using the NVDA move mouse command, then use the left click associated with the mouse pad rather than the NVDA left click command?
-
Yes.

I have had more wonky behavior from screen reader "click emulation" than I care to think about, and across screen readers.  I have never had a left click button, whether on an actual mouse or mouse pad, do anything other than what's expected if the mouse pointer is pointing to the thing being clicked on, whether by "the usual sighted method" or routing the mouse to the screen reader item that has focus.

I have always understood why actual mouse pointer movement by mouse or mousepad are not wanted, but I fail to understand the resistance to using the actual hard buttons for left and right click, particularly on a laptop, when it's a simple matter to preclude mouse pointer movement.  It increases accessibility and minimizes the need to use multi-key shortcuts for very commonly needed actions.  But to each their own.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Always remember others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them.  And then you destroy yourself.

       ~ Richard M. Nixon

 


Luke Davis
 

Brian Vogel wrote:

movement by mouse or mousepad are not wanted, but I fail to understand the resistance to using the actual hard buttons for left and right click,
particularly on a laptop, when it's a simple matter to preclude mouse pointer movement.  It increases accessibility and minimizes the need to use multi-key
shortcuts for very commonly needed actions.  But to each their own
Well in my case, I use laptops more as portable desktops. Most of the time, I have a large keyboard connected through a KVM, and don't have to move my hands from the keyboard to use the numpad for nav, then reach up and hit the slash to click.
Whereas I might have to reach over, around, beside, etc., to get to the touchpad, and might at that point land on it in such a way as to move the pointer off of what I wanted, since I'm not in the laptop's muscle memory space at that point.

Of course when I'm using the laptop directly, I often have used the touchpad left/right click, especially on numpad-free laptops (although i don't buy those any more).

Luke


 

On Tue, Apr 27, 2021 at 07:46 PM, Luke Davis wrote:
Well in my case, I use laptops more as portable desktops.
-
As do I, but generally with the built-in keyboard.

Again, no one of us can speak to every single configuration that the user community has in use.  I'm specifically referring to instances where the laptop in particular is being used and with its native keyboard, as the use of the thumb (or finger of an individual's choosing) to activate a real left or right click button is easier than the keyboard shortcut combinations.

Were I doing what you do, with an external keyboard, and having no mousepad at your thumb tips for left and right clicking, I'd favor the screen reader emulation, too.  But it's still useful to know how to hobble a mouse or mask a mousepad such that the left/right click buttons can be used in the event that emulation refuses to work for whatever reason.  It's just another arrow in the accessibility quiver.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042  

Always remember others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them.  And then you destroy yourself.

       ~ Richard M. Nixon

 


 

hi brian.
Now, after all of the above, you can use Device Manager to disable a
mousepad/touchpad, and it will remain off between boots on most
systems until you use Device Manager to enable it again:
1. Open Device Manager
2. Expand the Mice and other pointing devices entry.  Under which you
should find your touchpad.  In my case, that is Synaptics SMBus
TouchPad.
3. Select your TouchPad device.
4. Bring up the context menu and see if you have a Disable option.
Mine does not, because it can be disabled by its own control software.
I have seen some that are able to be disabled.  If you've got a
disable option, activate it.  It should now stay disabled until and
unless you were to repeat this process and choose Enable from the same
context menu.
i did your instruction, its very great step by step for us to learn
how we can do our goals.
but unfortunately i dont have disable option for my mouse in device manager.
i have only uninstall and update driver and properties in the device
manager context menu for my mouse.
i should press fn plus f7 everytime that i turn on my laptop.
is there any easier way to disable the mouse without need to press fn
plus f7 everytime?
thanks and God bless you!

On 4/28/21, Brian Vogel <britechguy@gmail.com> wrote:
Luke,

First, before I get into how to completely disable the mousepad, including
its left and right click buttons, on any laptop let me restate my opinion:
DON'T do it!! It makes a lot more sense to mask the actual area that moves
the mouse with a thin piece of cardboard (e.g., the back of a notepad or
single or doubled over index card) so that the mouse pointer cannot be moved
but you have access to the actual left and right click buttons, which are
far more reliable when those are called for than any screen reader's
emulation is. At least if those are hard buttons, the mousepads that use a
thin area at the bottom left and right sides that act like those buttons
when touched are problematic.

One should always check the mousepad/touchpad controls in Control Panel. In
the case of the laptop I'm using, an HP 15 series, that item is Synaptics
TouchPad, to determine whether your touchpad supports toggling it on/off as
part of its own controls. I cannot possibly say where these would be
located across brands. It requires looking at the settings to find it.
Some do, some don't. In the case of many Synaptics TouchPads, there is a
setting under Tapping Settings entitled, TouchPad Disable Zone Settings
which, if turned on via its checkbox, makes a double tap at the top left
corner of the TouchPad toggle it on or off. If that checkbox is checked, a
secondary set of radio buttons with the grouping entitled, Top Left Action,
becomes accessible, with the two radio button choices then being Switch
TouchPad off for one session or Switch TouchPad off. I have to believe
"session" in this context means "until restarted" while the just plain off
will stay off, even after reboot, unless one were to intentionally double
tap the upper left corner of the TouchPad.

In addition, if I open Mouse Properties from Control Panel, many laptops
have a checkbox available to Disable internal pointing device when external
USB pointing device is attached. I've seen many people use this, with the
dongle for a keyboard-mouse combo, to use the external keyboard but also
disable the mousepad at the same time whether the wireless mouse is actually
powered on or not. I've also seen people use this and just attach a USB
mouse, then placed "out of the way" as a way to temporarily disable the
TouchPad, but such that a mouse for someone sighted is available or that it
can be unplugged to allow an assistant access to the mousepad.

Now, after all of the above, you can use Device Manager to disable a
mousepad/touchpad, and it will remain off between boots on most systems
until you use Device Manager to enable it again:

1. Open Device Manager
2. Expand the Mice and other pointing devices entry. Under which you should
find your touchpad. In my case, that is Synaptics SMBus TouchPad.
3. Select your TouchPad device.
4. Bring up the context menu and see if you have a Disable option. Mine
does not, because it can be disabled by its own control software. I have
seen some that are able to be disabled. If you've got a disable option,
activate it. It should now stay disabled until and unless you were to
repeat this process and choose Enable from the same context menu.

I personally prefer either masking the touchpad or using the option to
disable it when an external pointing device is connected. It's way easier
to reverse.

By the way, if you're worried about the external mouse possibly being bumped
or moved, it's a simple matter to make what I call "a hobbled mouse" or "a
treated mouse" where you tape over the laser port on the bottom which is
what detects movement over a surface. When that's taped over, the mouse
will not recognize that it's being moved, but the left and right click
buttons (and scroll wheel, if it has one) remain available for use.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 20H2, Build 19042

Always remember others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless
you hate them. And then you destroy yourself.

~ Richard M. Nixon





--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali


 

hi luke.
do you mean that even many laptops dont provide a keystroke for us to
disable builtin regular mouse of our laptops?
how about asus and dell latitude laptops?
do you have informations about these models?

On 4/28/21, Luke Davis <luke@newanswertech.com> wrote:
Brian Vogel wrote:

doubts about mouse tracking, as far as a regular mouse goes since most
don't keep them anywhere near to where they could bump them by accident,
and most
turn their mousepads off when they're using a screen reader.
Brian, my first thought was about mouse tracking also. Afaik most major
laptop
brands don't allow turning off the touchpad easily without installing some
sort
of third party utility, unless you know something about it I don't?

I can do it on my MSI gaming laptop with FN+F3, but none of my HP laptops
support it that I've ever been able to find. Same for lower end Dells, I
believe.

Luke






--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali