Topics

Having Issues with NVDA with Excel and Outlook 2016


Bob Cavanaugh
 

Hello list,
I've been using NVDA for about 10 years now, but it's really only been
in the last few that it has become an every day use in my life, as
I've primarily been using System Access. However, since that screen
reader's future is uncertain, I want to get a few things with NVDA
fixed. I have two fairly major problems with Office 2016 on Windows 10
and the latest version on NVDA:
1. In Excel, whenever I try to modify a spreadsheet, NVDA stops
reading the document that is in focus. For instance, I like to double
check where I inserted a row. So, I will navigate to the row where I
want to insert, hit my applications key, choose insert from the menu,
and choose "entire row" from the dialog that pops up. On clicking OK,
I am returned to the spreadsheet as expected, but unless I alt-tab
away from and back to the spreadsheet or restart NVDA, it will not
read anything in the spreadsheet. Is there any way to fix this so that
NVDA will continue to read things in spreadsheets after taking such
actions? Note, it does not do this if working in a table within the
spreadsheet, just when the spreadsheet isn't a table.
2. The bigger issue is with Outlook, where reading at least some HTML
emails is nearly impossible with NVDA. This is particularly
problematic on emails from Groupon, which I have a lot of on my other
account which I access through Outlook. When I open those emails,
Outlook unexpectedly closes. This is the primary reason I still use
System Access with Outlook, because I've never had this problem with
that screen reader.
Bob


Quentin Christensen
 

Hi Bob,

Which version of NVDA are you using?  And are you using any add-ons?

I don't have Office 2016 handy, only Office 365, however when I insert rows as you describe, NVDA keeps responding.  I just tried it in a blank worksheet, I went to A2, applications key, "insert" "row", then the row is inserted and focus returns to the book and NVDA reads: "Book 1 Excel, sheet 1 table, a2" - note that I haven't created a table, despite the word being mentioned there.

In Outlook, we're aware of some issues with some newsletters, particularly those with many layout tables, although generally the issue is either too much feedback about tables and cells, or too many blank lines, rather than crashing.

We did include some improvements for Outlook particularly in NVDA 2020.3, so if you aren't using that version, please do try it at least.  Another setting which may make a difference, is an advanced setting:

1. Press NVDA+control+g to open NVDA's general settings.
2. Press CONTROL+SHIFT+TAB to move to the last tab
3. Press SPACEBAR to check that you acknowledge the warning.
4. Press TAB until you get to "Use UI Automation to access Microsoft Word Document Controls when available".
5. Press SPACEBAR to toggle that
6. Press ENTER to close settings.

Outlook uses a Microsoft Word style window to display messages in Outlook.  This setting changes how NVDA gets information from Word or Word-style controls like this.  Some things may work better, and some may not work as well, but see how you find it.

Also if you are using any add-ons, try restarting NVDA with those disabled to test that as well (NVDA+Q, then down arrow to "Restart with add-ons disabled" and press ENTER).

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 1:19 PM Bob Cavanaugh <cavbob1993@...> wrote:
Hello list,
I've been using NVDA for about 10 years now, but it's really only been
in the last few that it has become an every day use in my life, as
I've primarily been using System Access. However, since that screen
reader's future is uncertain, I want to get a few things with NVDA
fixed. I have two fairly major problems with Office 2016 on Windows 10
and the latest version on NVDA:
1. In Excel, whenever I try to modify a spreadsheet, NVDA stops
reading the document that is in focus. For instance, I like to double
check where I inserted a row. So, I will navigate to the row where I
want to insert, hit my applications key, choose insert from the menu,
and choose "entire row" from the dialog that pops up. On clicking OK,
I am returned to the spreadsheet as expected, but unless I alt-tab
away from and back to the spreadsheet or restart NVDA, it will not
read anything in the spreadsheet. Is there any way to fix this so that
NVDA will continue to read things in spreadsheets after taking such
actions? Note, it does not do this if working in a table within the
spreadsheet, just when the spreadsheet isn't a table.
2. The bigger issue is with Outlook, where reading at least some HTML
emails is nearly impossible with NVDA. This is particularly
problematic on emails from Groupon, which I have a lot of on my other
account which I access through Outlook. When I open those emails,
Outlook unexpectedly closes. This is the primary reason I still use
System Access with Outlook, because I've never had this problem with
that screen reader.
Bob







--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Sarah k Alawami
 

I'm learning how to use outlook so can't help with that, but your first issue I have experienced just a few days ago when I was inserting rows and merging stuff together.

--

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website.

Check out my adventures with a shadow machine.

to subscribe to the feed click here and you can also follow us on twitter

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on twitch. Feel free to give the channel a follow and see what is up there.

For stream archives, products you can buy and more visit my main lbry page and my tffp lbry page You will also be able to buy some of my products and eBooks there.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 17 Nov 2020, at 17:14, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:

Hello list,
I've been using NVDA for about 10 years now, but it's really only been
in the last few that it has become an every day use in my life, as
I've primarily been using System Access. However, since that screen
reader's future is uncertain, I want to get a few things with NVDA
fixed. I have two fairly major problems with Office 2016 on Windows 10
and the latest version on NVDA:
1. In Excel, whenever I try to modify a spreadsheet, NVDA stops
reading the document that is in focus. For instance, I like to double
check where I inserted a row. So, I will navigate to the row where I
want to insert, hit my applications key, choose insert from the menu,
and choose "entire row" from the dialog that pops up. On clicking OK,
I am returned to the spreadsheet as expected, but unless I alt-tab
away from and back to the spreadsheet or restart NVDA, it will not
read anything in the spreadsheet. Is there any way to fix this so that
NVDA will continue to read things in spreadsheets after taking such
actions? Note, it does not do this if working in a table within the
spreadsheet, just when the spreadsheet isn't a table.
2. The bigger issue is with Outlook, where reading at least some HTML
emails is nearly impossible with NVDA. This is particularly
problematic on emails from Groupon, which I have a lot of on my other
account which I access through Outlook. When I open those emails,
Outlook unexpectedly closes. This is the primary reason I still use
System Access with Outlook, because I've never had this problem with
that screen reader.
Bob


Jackie
 

I find that disabling "live view" in Excel helps a lot. I think it
varies from version to version, but try going to the file menu &
thence to 'options'.

On 11/17/20, Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@...> wrote:
I'm learning how to use outlook so can't help with that, but your
first issue I have experienced just a few days ago when I was inserting
rows and merging stuff together.

--

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our
[website.](http://www.tffppodcast.com)

Check out my [adventures with a shadow
machine.](http://tffppodcast.com/shadow)

to subscribe to the feed click [here](http://feeds.feedburner.com/tffp)
and you can also [follow us on twitter](http://twitter.com/tffppodcast)

Our [discord](http://discord.tffppodcast.com) is where you will know
when we go live on [twitch.](http://twitch.tv/ke7zum) Feel free to give
the channel a follow and see what is up there.

For stream archives, products you can buy and more visit [my main lbry
page](http://lbry.tv/@ke7zum) and my [tffp lbry
page](http://lbry.tv/@tffp) You will also be able to buy some of my
products and eBooks there.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go
[here](Http://patreon.com/tffppodcast)

On 17 Nov 2020, at 17:14, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:

Hello list,
I've been using NVDA for about 10 years now, but it's really only been
in the last few that it has become an every day use in my life, as
I've primarily been using System Access. However, since that screen
reader's future is uncertain, I want to get a few things with NVDA
fixed. I have two fairly major problems with Office 2016 on Windows 10
and the latest version on NVDA:
1. In Excel, whenever I try to modify a spreadsheet, NVDA stops
reading the document that is in focus. For instance, I like to double
check where I inserted a row. So, I will navigate to the row where I
want to insert, hit my applications key, choose insert from the menu,
and choose "entire row" from the dialog that pops up. On clicking OK,
I am returned to the spreadsheet as expected, but unless I alt-tab
away from and back to the spreadsheet or restart NVDA, it will not
read anything in the spreadsheet. Is there any way to fix this so that
NVDA will continue to read things in spreadsheets after taking such
actions? Note, it does not do this if working in a table within the
spreadsheet, just when the spreadsheet isn't a table.
2. The bigger issue is with Outlook, where reading at least some HTML
emails is nearly impossible with NVDA. This is particularly
problematic on emails from Groupon, which I have a lot of on my other
account which I access through Outlook. When I open those emails,
Outlook unexpectedly closes. This is the primary reason I still use
System Access with Outlook, because I've never had this problem with
that screen reader.
Bob






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Eilana Benish
 

I must say that I am using Microsoft outlook for many many years now and after using Mozilla Thunderbird I don't need Microsoft Outlook anymore

Microsoft Outlook can be crushed without any reason or at least any visible reason  - even on a very strong computer.

Mozilla Thunderbird is very easy to use and very very accessible also with newsletters with layout tables

So I am strongly recommended to use Mozilla Thunderbird

 

ובכבוד רב | Sincerely,

אילנה בניש מורשה נגישות שירות 2200 | Eilana Benish, service Accessibility authorized (2200)

ניהול פרויקטים – נגישות ושמישות אינטרנט וטכנולוגיות מידע  | Projects manager – Accessibility & usability on internet and ICT

📱 +972-50-7100367 | 📧 benish.ilana@...  

 

נכתב על ידי Bob Cavanaugh, ב־18/11/2020 בשעה 03:14:

Hello list,
I've been using NVDA for about 10 years now, but it's really only been
in the last few that it has become an every day use in my life, as
I've primarily been using System Access. However, since that screen
reader's future is uncertain, I want to get a few things with NVDA
fixed. I have two fairly major problems with Office 2016 on Windows 10
and the latest version on NVDA:
1. In Excel, whenever I try to modify a spreadsheet, NVDA stops
reading the document that is in focus. For instance, I like to double
check where I inserted a row. So, I will navigate to the row where I
want to insert, hit my applications key, choose insert from the menu,
and choose "entire row" from the dialog that pops up. On clicking OK,
I am returned to the spreadsheet as expected, but unless I alt-tab
away from and back to the spreadsheet or restart NVDA, it will not
read anything in the spreadsheet. Is there any way to fix this so that
NVDA will continue to read things in spreadsheets after taking such
actions? Note, it does not do this if working in a table within the
spreadsheet, just when the spreadsheet isn't a table.
2. The bigger issue is with Outlook, where reading at least some HTML
emails is nearly impossible with NVDA. This is particularly
problematic on emails from Groupon, which I have a lot of on my other
account which I access through Outlook. When I open those emails,
Outlook unexpectedly closes. This is the primary reason I still use
System Access with Outlook, because I've never had this problem with
that screen reader.
Bob






Bob Cavanaugh
 

That UI Automation checkbox did the trick with the Outlook problem, I
just tried it. I agree there's way too much unecisary table
information though. I'm not sure if it's how this particular email was
laid out, but it appeared to read the first row over and over again
when tabbing through. I'll have to investigate that further.

On 11/17/20, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:
Hi Bob,

Which version of NVDA are you using? And are you using any add-ons?

I don't have Office 2016 handy, only Office 365, however when I insert rows
as you describe, NVDA keeps responding. I just tried it in a blank
worksheet, I went to A2, applications key, "insert" "row", then the row is
inserted and focus returns to the book and NVDA reads: "Book 1 Excel, sheet
1 table, a2" - note that I haven't created a table, despite the word being
mentioned there.

In Outlook, we're aware of some issues with some newsletters, particularly
those with many layout tables, although generally the issue is either too
much feedback about tables and cells, or too many blank lines, rather than
crashing.

We did include some improvements for Outlook particularly in NVDA 2020.3,
so if you aren't using that version, please do try it at least. Another
setting which may make a difference, is an advanced setting:

1. Press NVDA+control+g to open NVDA's general settings.
2. Press CONTROL+SHIFT+TAB to move to the last tab
3. Press SPACEBAR to check that you acknowledge the warning.
4. Press TAB until you get to "Use UI Automation to access Microsoft Word
Document Controls when available".
5. Press SPACEBAR to toggle that
6. Press ENTER to close settings.

Outlook uses a Microsoft Word style window to display messages in Outlook.
This setting changes how NVDA gets information from Word or Word-style
controls like this. Some things may work better, and some may not work as
well, but see how you find it.

Also if you are using any add-ons, try restarting NVDA with those disabled
to test that as well (NVDA+Q, then down arrow to "Restart with add-ons
disabled" and press ENTER).

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 1:19 PM Bob Cavanaugh <cavbob1993@...> wrote:

Hello list,
I've been using NVDA for about 10 years now, but it's really only been
in the last few that it has become an every day use in my life, as
I've primarily been using System Access. However, since that screen
reader's future is uncertain, I want to get a few things with NVDA
fixed. I have two fairly major problems with Office 2016 on Windows 10
and the latest version on NVDA:
1. In Excel, whenever I try to modify a spreadsheet, NVDA stops
reading the document that is in focus. For instance, I like to double
check where I inserted a row. So, I will navigate to the row where I
want to insert, hit my applications key, choose insert from the menu,
and choose "entire row" from the dialog that pops up. On clicking OK,
I am returned to the spreadsheet as expected, but unless I alt-tab
away from and back to the spreadsheet or restart NVDA, it will not
read anything in the spreadsheet. Is there any way to fix this so that
NVDA will continue to read things in spreadsheets after taking such
actions? Note, it does not do this if working in a table within the
spreadsheet, just when the spreadsheet isn't a table.
2. The bigger issue is with Outlook, where reading at least some HTML
emails is nearly impossible with NVDA. This is particularly
problematic on emails from Groupon, which I have a lot of on my other
account which I access through Outlook. When I open those emails,
Outlook unexpectedly closes. This is the primary reason I still use
System Access with Outlook, because I've never had this problem with
that screen reader.
Bob





--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Web: www.nvaccess.org
Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/
User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess <https://twitter.com/NVAccess>






Ralf Kefferpuetz
 

Keep an eye on the performance of NVDA with this UIA option enabled. At my end NVDA/Outlook becomes slower and slower during the day. Restarting of NVDA fixes that, but there is something not right with this UIA option. Also with this UIA option it doesn't read image alternate text in RSS feeds.

Regards,
Ralf

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Cavanaugh
Sent: Mittwoch, 18. November 2020 07:23
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Having Issues with NVDA with Excel and Outlook 2016

That UI Automation checkbox did the trick with the Outlook problem, I just tried it. I agree there's way too much unecisary table information though. I'm not sure if it's how this particular email was laid out, but it appeared to read the first row over and over again when tabbing through. I'll have to investigate that further.

On 11/17/20, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:
Hi Bob,

Which version of NVDA are you using? And are you using any add-ons?

I don't have Office 2016 handy, only Office 365, however when I insert
rows as you describe, NVDA keeps responding. I just tried it in a
blank worksheet, I went to A2, applications key, "insert" "row", then
the row is inserted and focus returns to the book and NVDA reads:
"Book 1 Excel, sheet
1 table, a2" - note that I haven't created a table, despite the word
being mentioned there.

In Outlook, we're aware of some issues with some newsletters,
particularly those with many layout tables, although generally the
issue is either too much feedback about tables and cells, or too many
blank lines, rather than crashing.

We did include some improvements for Outlook particularly in NVDA
2020.3, so if you aren't using that version, please do try it at
least. Another setting which may make a difference, is an advanced setting:

1. Press NVDA+control+g to open NVDA's general settings.
2. Press CONTROL+SHIFT+TAB to move to the last tab 3. Press SPACEBAR
to check that you acknowledge the warning.
4. Press TAB until you get to "Use UI Automation to access Microsoft
Word Document Controls when available".
5. Press SPACEBAR to toggle that
6. Press ENTER to close settings.

Outlook uses a Microsoft Word style window to display messages in Outlook.
This setting changes how NVDA gets information from Word or Word-style
controls like this. Some things may work better, and some may not
work as well, but see how you find it.

Also if you are using any add-ons, try restarting NVDA with those
disabled to test that as well (NVDA+Q, then down arrow to "Restart
with add-ons disabled" and press ENTER).

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 1:19 PM Bob Cavanaugh <cavbob1993@...> wrote:

Hello list,
I've been using NVDA for about 10 years now, but it's really only
been in the last few that it has become an every day use in my life,
as I've primarily been using System Access. However, since that
screen reader's future is uncertain, I want to get a few things with
NVDA fixed. I have two fairly major problems with Office 2016 on
Windows 10 and the latest version on NVDA:
1. In Excel, whenever I try to modify a spreadsheet, NVDA stops
reading the document that is in focus. For instance, I like to double
check where I inserted a row. So, I will navigate to the row where I
want to insert, hit my applications key, choose insert from the menu,
and choose "entire row" from the dialog that pops up. On clicking OK,
I am returned to the spreadsheet as expected, but unless I alt-tab
away from and back to the spreadsheet or restart NVDA, it will not
read anything in the spreadsheet. Is there any way to fix this so
that NVDA will continue to read things in spreadsheets after taking
such actions? Note, it does not do this if working in a table within
the spreadsheet, just when the spreadsheet isn't a table.
2. The bigger issue is with Outlook, where reading at least some HTML
emails is nearly impossible with NVDA. This is particularly
problematic on emails from Groupon, which I have a lot of on my other
account which I access through Outlook. When I open those emails,
Outlook unexpectedly closes. This is the primary reason I still use
System Access with Outlook, because I've never had this problem with
that screen reader.
Bob





--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Web: www.nvaccess.org
Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/
User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess <https://twitter.com/NVAccess>






Quentin Christensen
 

If you can get debug logs with add-ons disabled showing anything interesting for those two issues, it would be worth writing them up at: https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues if you could please.


On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 6:05 PM Ralf Kefferpuetz <ralf.kefferpuetz@...> wrote:
Keep an eye on the performance of NVDA with this UIA option enabled. At my end NVDA/Outlook becomes slower and slower during the day. Restarting of NVDA fixes that, but there is something not right with this UIA option. Also with this UIA option it doesn't read image alternate text in RSS feeds.

Regards,
  Ralf

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Cavanaugh
Sent: Mittwoch, 18. November 2020 07:23
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Having Issues with NVDA with Excel and Outlook 2016

That UI Automation checkbox did the trick with the Outlook problem, I just tried it. I agree there's way too much unecisary table information though. I'm not sure if it's how this particular email was laid out, but it appeared to read the first row over and over again when tabbing through. I'll have to investigate that further.

On 11/17/20, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:
> Hi Bob,
>
> Which version of NVDA are you using?  And are you using any add-ons?
>
> I don't have Office 2016 handy, only Office 365, however when I insert
> rows as you describe, NVDA keeps responding.  I just tried it in a
> blank worksheet, I went to A2, applications key, "insert" "row", then
> the row is inserted and focus returns to the book and NVDA reads:
> "Book 1 Excel, sheet
> 1 table, a2" - note that I haven't created a table, despite the word
> being mentioned there.
>
> In Outlook, we're aware of some issues with some newsletters,
> particularly those with many layout tables, although generally the
> issue is either too much feedback about tables and cells, or too many
> blank lines, rather than crashing.
>
> We did include some improvements for Outlook particularly in NVDA
> 2020.3, so if you aren't using that version, please do try it at
> least.  Another setting which may make a difference, is an advanced setting:
>
> 1. Press NVDA+control+g to open NVDA's general settings.
> 2. Press CONTROL+SHIFT+TAB to move to the last tab 3. Press SPACEBAR
> to check that you acknowledge the warning.
> 4. Press TAB until you get to "Use UI Automation to access Microsoft
> Word Document Controls when available".
> 5. Press SPACEBAR to toggle that
> 6. Press ENTER to close settings.
>
> Outlook uses a Microsoft Word style window to display messages in Outlook.
> This setting changes how NVDA gets information from Word or Word-style
> controls like this.  Some things may work better, and some may not
> work as well, but see how you find it.
>
> Also if you are using any add-ons, try restarting NVDA with those
> disabled to test that as well (NVDA+Q, then down arrow to "Restart
> with add-ons disabled" and press ENTER).
>
> Kind regards
>
> Quentin.
>
> On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 1:19 PM Bob Cavanaugh <cavbob1993@...> wrote:
>
>> Hello list,
>> I've been using NVDA for about 10 years now, but it's really only
>> been in the last few that it has become an every day use in my life,
>> as I've primarily been using System Access. However, since that
>> screen reader's future is uncertain, I want to get a few things with
>> NVDA fixed. I have two fairly major problems with Office 2016 on
>> Windows 10 and the latest version on NVDA:
>> 1. In Excel, whenever I try to modify a spreadsheet, NVDA stops
>> reading the document that is in focus. For instance, I like to double
>> check where I inserted a row. So, I will navigate to the row where I
>> want to insert, hit my applications key, choose insert from the menu,
>> and choose "entire row" from the dialog that pops up. On clicking OK,
>> I am returned to the spreadsheet as expected, but unless I alt-tab
>> away from and back to the spreadsheet or restart NVDA, it will not
>> read anything in the spreadsheet. Is there any way to fix this so
>> that NVDA will continue to read things in spreadsheets after taking
>> such actions? Note, it does not do this if working in a table within
>> the spreadsheet, just when the spreadsheet isn't a table.
>> 2. The bigger issue is with Outlook, where reading at least some HTML
>> emails is nearly impossible with NVDA. This is particularly
>> problematic on emails from Groupon, which I have a lot of on my other
>> account which I access through Outlook. When I open those emails,
>> Outlook unexpectedly closes. This is the primary reason I still use
>> System Access with Outlook, because I've never had this problem with
>> that screen reader.
>> Bob
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Quentin Christensen
> Training and Support Manager
>
> Web: www.nvaccess.org
> Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
> Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/
> User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda
> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
> Twitter: @NVAccess <https://twitter.com/NVAccess>
>
>
>
>
>
>













--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Sarah k Alawami
 

I hope that works for the both of us I'll try and find it. I did see that option but skipped right over it. The next time I have a report to do I'll be trying to see if that fixed the issue. Hopefully now it will make at least NVDA behave better.

--

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website.

Check out my adventures with a shadow machine.

to subscribe to the feed click here and you can also follow us on twitter

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on twitch. Feel free to give the channel a follow and see what is up there.

For stream archives, products you can buy and more visit my main lbry page and my tffp lbry page You will also be able to buy some of my products and eBooks there.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 17 Nov 2020, at 19:28, Jackie wrote:

I find that disabling "live view" in Excel helps a lot. I think it
varies from version to version, but try going to the file menu &
thence to 'options'.

On 11/17/20, Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@...> wrote:

I'm learning how to use outlook so can't help with that, but your
first issue I have experienced just a few days ago when I was inserting
rows and merging stuff together.

--

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our
[website.](http://www.tffppodcast.com)

Check out my [adventures with a shadow
machine.](http://tffppodcast.com/shadow)

to subscribe to the feed click [here](http://feeds.feedburner.com/tffp)
and you can also [follow us on twitter](http://twitter.com/tffppodcast)

Our [discord](http://discord.tffppodcast.com) is where you will know
when we go live on [twitch.](http://twitch.tv/ke7zum) Feel free to give
the channel a follow and see what is up there.

For stream archives, products you can buy and more visit [my main lbry
page](http://lbry.tv/@ke7zum) and my [tffp lbry
page](http://lbry.tv/@tffp) You will also be able to buy some of my
products and eBooks there.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go
[here](Http://patreon.com/tffppodcast)

On 17 Nov 2020, at 17:14, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:

Hello list,
I've been using NVDA for about 10 years now, but it's really only been
in the last few that it has become an every day use in my life, as
I've primarily been using System Access. However, since that screen
reader's future is uncertain, I want to get a few things with NVDA
fixed. I have two fairly major problems with Office 2016 on Windows 10
and the latest version on NVDA:
1. In Excel, whenever I try to modify a spreadsheet, NVDA stops
reading the document that is in focus. For instance, I like to double
check where I inserted a row. So, I will navigate to the row where I
want to insert, hit my applications key, choose insert from the menu,
and choose "entire row" from the dialog that pops up. On clicking OK,
I am returned to the spreadsheet as expected, but unless I alt-tab
away from and back to the spreadsheet or restart NVDA, it will not
read anything in the spreadsheet. Is there any way to fix this so that
NVDA will continue to read things in spreadsheets after taking such
actions? Note, it does not do this if working in a table within the
spreadsheet, just when the spreadsheet isn't a table.
2. The bigger issue is with Outlook, where reading at least some HTML
emails is nearly impossible with NVDA. This is particularly
problematic on emails from Groupon, which I have a lot of on my other
account which I access through Outlook. When I open those emails,
Outlook unexpectedly closes. This is the primary reason I still use
System Access with Outlook, because I've never had this problem with
that screen reader.
Bob


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Pranav Lal
 

Hi Bob,

I create a separate configuration profile for outlook and disable the table reporting features.

If you need table reporting, then create a manually activated profile and load it whenever you need table navigation in outlook.

The problem is that many programs that create newsletters etc use tables for layout.

Pranav


Pranav Lal
 

Bob,

Are you using the 32bit or 64bit version of Excel?

Pranav


Quentin Christensen
 

Re the slowdown in Excel, in the current alpha builds, we have addressed an issue some users were having with a freeze when navigating.  Feel free to try the latest alpha build and see how you find that: https://www.nvaccess.org/files/nvda/snapshots/

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Thu, Nov 19, 2020 at 2:33 AM Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@...> wrote:

I hope that works for the both of us I'll try and find it. I did see that option but skipped right over it. The next time I have a report to do I'll be trying to see if that fixed the issue. Hopefully now it will make at least NVDA behave better.

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On 17 Nov 2020, at 19:28, Jackie wrote:

I find that disabling "live view" in Excel helps a lot. I think it
varies from version to version, but try going to the file menu &
thence to 'options'.

On 11/17/20, Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@...> wrote:

I'm learning how to use outlook so can't help with that, but your
first issue I have experienced just a few days ago when I was inserting
rows and merging stuff together.

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Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our
[website.](http://www.tffppodcast.com)

Check out my [adventures with a shadow
machine.](http://tffppodcast.com/shadow)

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and you can also [follow us on twitter](http://twitter.com/tffppodcast)

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when we go live on [twitch.](http://twitch.tv/ke7zum) Feel free to give
the channel a follow and see what is up there.

For stream archives, products you can buy and more visit [my main lbry
page](http://lbry.tv/@ke7zum) and my [tffp lbry
page](http://lbry.tv/@tffp) You will also be able to buy some of my
products and eBooks there.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go
[here](Http://patreon.com/tffppodcast)

On 17 Nov 2020, at 17:14, Bob Cavanaugh wrote:

Hello list,
I've been using NVDA for about 10 years now, but it's really only been
in the last few that it has become an every day use in my life, as
I've primarily been using System Access. However, since that screen
reader's future is uncertain, I want to get a few things with NVDA
fixed. I have two fairly major problems with Office 2016 on Windows 10
and the latest version on NVDA:
1. In Excel, whenever I try to modify a spreadsheet, NVDA stops
reading the document that is in focus. For instance, I like to double
check where I inserted a row. So, I will navigate to the row where I
want to insert, hit my applications key, choose insert from the menu,
and choose "entire row" from the dialog that pops up. On clicking OK,
I am returned to the spreadsheet as expected, but unless I alt-tab
away from and back to the spreadsheet or restart NVDA, it will not
read anything in the spreadsheet. Is there any way to fix this so that
NVDA will continue to read things in spreadsheets after taking such
actions? Note, it does not do this if working in a table within the
spreadsheet, just when the spreadsheet isn't a table.
2. The bigger issue is with Outlook, where reading at least some HTML
emails is nearly impossible with NVDA. This is particularly
problematic on emails from Groupon, which I have a lot of on my other
account which I access through Outlook. When I open those emails,
Outlook unexpectedly closes. This is the primary reason I still use
System Access with Outlook, because I've never had this problem with
that screen reader.
Bob


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Subscribe to a WordPress for Newbies Mailing List by sending a message to:
wp4newbs-request@... with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by
visiting the list page at http://www.freelists.org/list/wp4newbs
& check out my sites at www.brightstarsweb.com & www.mysitesbeenhacked.com




--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Bob Cavanaugh
 

How do I do this? The table reporting is really getting annoying. I've
pasted below just what it read from one email. Can you follow this at
all?
graphic table with 1 rows and 1 columns row 1 column 1 out of
table table with 1 rows and 1 columns row 1 column 1 table with
1 rows and 1 columns row 1 column 1 table with 1 rows and 1
columns row 1 column 1 table with 1 rows and 1 columns row 1
column 1 table with 2 rows and 2 columns row 1 column 1 through 2
table with 1 rows and 1 columns row 1 column 1 out of table row
2 column 1 Meal-Delivery Service
Home Chef $60 $24 Sale Ends 4/7 column 2 table with 1 rows and
1 columns row 1 column 1 View Deal
out of table out of table out of table table with 1 rows and 1
columns row 1 column 1 table with 7 rows and 1 columns row 1
column 1 table with 1 rows and 1 columns row 1 column 1 table
with 6 rows and 2 columns row 1 column 1 through 2 row 2 Custom
Canvas Prints row 3 Simple Canvas Prints
row 5 column 1 graphic
table with 1 rows and 1 columns row 1 column 1 table with 5 rows
and 2 columns row 1 column 1 through 2 link
row 4 column 1 graphic
row 2 Custom Canvas PrintsSimple Canvas Prints Multiple Locations
(28,927)$89.40 $4.99 Custom XXXL Canvas PrintsCanvasOnSale
(46,862)$219 $29.99 column 1 table with 1 rows and 1 columns row
1 column 1 table with 5 rows and 2 columns row 1 column 1
through 2 link
row 4 column 1 graphic
table with 1 rows and 1 columns row 1 column 1 table with 5 rows
and 2 columns row 1 column 1 through 2 link
row 3 Custom Canvas PrintsSimple Canvas Prints Multiple Locations
(28,927)$89.40 $4.99 Custom XXXL Canvas PrintsCanvasOnSale
(46,862)$219 $29.99 column 1 table with 1 rows and 1 columns row
1 column 1 table with 4 rows and 2 columns row 1 column 1
through 2 link
table with 1 rows and 1 columns row 1 column 1 table with 5 rows
and 2 columns row 1 column 1 through 2 link
row 4 column 1 graphic
row 4 Custom Canvas PrintsSimple Canvas Prints Multiple Locations
(28,927)$89.40 $4.99 Custom XXXL Canvas PrintsCanvasOnSale
(46,862)$219 $29.99 column 1 table with 1 rows and 1 columns row
1 column 1 table with 5 rows and 2 columns row 1 column 1
through 2 link
row 4 column 1 graphic
table with 1 rows and 1 columns row 1 column 1 table with 5 rows
and 2 columns row 1 column 1 through 2 link
row 4 column 1 graphic
row 5 Custom Canvas PrintsSimple Canvas Prints Multiple Locations
(28,927)$89.40 $4.99 Custom XXXL Canvas PrintsCanvasOnSale
(46,862)$219 $29.99 column 1 table with 1 rows and 1 columns row
1 column 1 table with 5 rows and 2 columns row 1 column 1
through 2 link
row 2 Custom Premium Canvas Wraps row 3 Canvas on Demand row 4
column 1 graphic  (30,371) row 5 $137.95 $29.99
graphic
table with 1 rows and 1 columns row 1 column 1 table with 5 rows
and 2 columns row 1 column 1 through 2 link
row 4 column 1 graphic
row 6 Custom Canvas PrintsSimple Canvas Prints Multiple Locations
(28,927)$89.40 $4.99 Custom XXXL Canvas PrintsCanvasOnSale
(46,862)$219 $29.99 column 1 table with 1 rows and 1 columns row
1 column 1 table with 4 rows and 2 columns row 1 column 1
through 2 link
row 2 Flowers - Shipping Included row 3 Blooms Today row 4
column 1 $40 $20 out of table
out of table table with 1 rows and 1 columns row 1 column 1 table
with 5 rows and 2 columns row 1 column 1 through 2 row 2 Free
Pandora Subscriptions row 3 Pandora row 4 column 1 graphic
(21,520)

On 11/18/20, Pranav Lal <pranav.lal@...> wrote:
Hi Bob,

I create a separate configuration profile for outlook and disable the table
reporting features.

If you need table reporting, then create a manually activated profile and
load it whenever you need table navigation in outlook.

The problem is that many programs that create newsletters etc use tables for
layout.

Pranav








Gene
 

I've almost never worked with profiles. Someone will tell you how if you want to know. For now, open document formatting, NVDA key d. Tab around and uncheck everything involved with tables, then press enter. If you want to have tables reported again after you look at e--mail, issue the command NVDA key control r to restore the saved settings you were using before. If you want to leave table reporting off, just leave things as they are.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Cavanaugh
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2020 5:58 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Having Issues with NVDA with Excel and Outlook 2016

How do I do this? The table reporting is really getting annoying. I've
pasted below just what it read from one email. Can you follow this at
all?
graphic table with 1 rows and 1 columns row 1 column 1 out of
table table with 1 rows and 1 columns row 1 column 1 table with
1 rows and 1 columns row 1 column 1 table with 1 rows and 1
columns row 1 column 1 table with 1 rows and 1 columns row 1
column 1 table with 2 rows and 2 columns row 1 column 1 through 2
table with 1 rows and 1 columns row 1 column 1 out of table row
2 column 1 Meal-Delivery Service
Home Chef $60 $24 Sale Ends 4/7 column 2 table with 1 rows and
1 columns row 1 column 1 View Deal
out of table out of table out of table table with 1 rows and 1
columns row 1 column 1 table with 7 rows and 1 columns row 1
column 1 table with 1 rows and 1 columns row 1 column 1 table
with 6 rows and 2 columns row 1 column 1 through 2 row 2 Custom
Canvas Prints row 3 Simple Canvas Prints
row 5 column 1 graphic
table with 1 rows and 1 columns row 1 column 1 table with 5 rows
and 2 columns row 1 column 1 through 2 link
row 4 column 1 graphic
row 2 Custom Canvas PrintsSimple Canvas Prints Multiple Locations
(28,927)$89.40 $4.99 Custom XXXL Canvas PrintsCanvasOnSale
(46,862)$219 $29.99 column 1 table with 1 rows and 1 columns row
1 column 1 table with 5 rows and 2 columns row 1 column 1
through 2 link
row 4 column 1 graphic
table with 1 rows and 1 columns row 1 column 1 table with 5 rows
and 2 columns row 1 column 1 through 2 link
row 3 Custom Canvas PrintsSimple Canvas Prints Multiple Locations
(28,927)$89.40 $4.99 Custom XXXL Canvas PrintsCanvasOnSale
(46,862)$219 $29.99 column 1 table with 1 rows and 1 columns row
1 column 1 table with 4 rows and 2 columns row 1 column 1
through 2 link
table with 1 rows and 1 columns row 1 column 1 table with 5 rows
and 2 columns row 1 column 1 through 2 link
row 4 column 1 graphic
row 4 Custom Canvas PrintsSimple Canvas Prints Multiple Locations
(28,927)$89.40 $4.99 Custom XXXL Canvas PrintsCanvasOnSale
(46,862)$219 $29.99 column 1 table with 1 rows and 1 columns row
1 column 1 table with 5 rows and 2 columns row 1 column 1
through 2 link
row 4 column 1 graphic
table with 1 rows and 1 columns row 1 column 1 table with 5 rows
and 2 columns row 1 column 1 through 2 link
row 4 column 1 graphic
row 5 Custom Canvas PrintsSimple Canvas Prints Multiple Locations
(28,927)$89.40 $4.99 Custom XXXL Canvas PrintsCanvasOnSale
(46,862)$219 $29.99 column 1 table with 1 rows and 1 columns row
1 column 1 table with 5 rows and 2 columns row 1 column 1
through 2 link
row 2 Custom Premium Canvas Wraps row 3 Canvas on Demand row 4
column 1 graphic (30,371) row 5 $137.95 $29.99
graphic
table with 1 rows and 1 columns row 1 column 1 table with 5 rows
and 2 columns row 1 column 1 through 2 link
row 4 column 1 graphic
row 6 Custom Canvas PrintsSimple Canvas Prints Multiple Locations
(28,927)$89.40 $4.99 Custom XXXL Canvas PrintsCanvasOnSale
(46,862)$219 $29.99 column 1 table with 1 rows and 1 columns row
1 column 1 table with 4 rows and 2 columns row 1 column 1
through 2 link
row 2 Flowers - Shipping Included row 3 Blooms Today row 4
column 1 $40 $20 out of table
out of table table with 1 rows and 1 columns row 1 column 1 table
with 5 rows and 2 columns row 1 column 1 through 2 row 2 Free
Pandora Subscriptions row 3 Pandora row 4 column 1 graphic
(21,520)


On 11/18/20, Pranav Lal <pranav.lal@...> wrote:
Hi Bob,

I create a separate configuration profile for outlook and disable the table
reporting features.

If you need table reporting, then create a manually activated profile and
load it whenever you need table navigation in outlook.

The problem is that many programs that create newsletters etc use tables for
layout.

Pranav








 

My gut is telling me that this is the flip side of an issue I've dealt with that is the result of HTML layout tables.

Take a look at the Input Gestures Dialog (NVDA+N,P,N) search on simple, which should return you the "Turn simple review mode on and off" option, and once you have focus on it hit the Add key to add a keyboard shortcut to toggle this feature On/Off of your choosing.  Simple review mode is OFF by default, but there are times the you may want to toggle it on to see if it cuts down on this sort of ultra-extraneous verbiage, which is the result of how the HTML used for the message in question is written.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

If you think that you can think about a thing, inextricably attached to something else, without thinking of the thing it is attached to, then you have a legal mind.

        ~ Thomas Reed Powell

 


Gene
 

Simple review is on by default. This appears to be the result of either newsletters being formatted incorrectly, using nonlayout tables for layout, or some problem I am not aware of. Whatever the case, turning table notifications off will solve the problem for now, until a progfile can be made if the user wants table notifications on but off when using Outlook.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Vogel
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2020 6:11 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Having Issues with NVDA with Excel and Outlook 2016



My gut is telling me that this is the flip side of an issue I've dealt with that is the result of HTML layout tables.

Take a look at the Input Gestures Dialog (NVDA+N,P,N) search on simple, which should return you the "Turn simple review mode on and off" option, and once you have focus on it hit the Add key to add a keyboard shortcut to toggle this feature On/Off of your choosing. Simple review mode is OFF by default, but there are times the you may want to toggle it on to see if it cuts down on this sort of ultra-extraneous verbiage, which is the result of how the HTML used for the message in question is written.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041

If you think that you can think about a thing, inextricably attached to something else, without thinking of the thing it is attached to, then you have a legal mind.

~ Thomas Reed Powell


 

One can also assign a toggle for Including/Excluding Layout Tables in the Input Gestures Dialog, Document Formatting section.  That's worth a shot, too.  It's really difficult to know what, precisely, is happening here, but I'd lay the issue at the feet of the mail message long before NVDA.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

If you think that you can think about a thing, inextricably attached to something else, without thinking of the thing it is attached to, then you have a legal mind.

        ~ Thomas Reed Powell

 


 

On Thu, Nov 19, 2020 at 07:22 PM, Gene wrote:
Simple review is on by default.
-
Thanks for the correction.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 2004, Build 19041  

If you think that you can think about a thing, inextricably attached to something else, without thinking of the thing it is attached to, then you have a legal mind.

        ~ Thomas Reed Powell

 


Pranav Lal
 

Hi Bob,

I have dealt with this exact issue. Here is what you do.
1. Launch outlook.
2. Use the nvda key + n to bring up the nvda menu.
3. Navigate to the item called "configuration profiles."
4. In that dialogue, listen for what profile you are on. If it says default, create a new profile. If it says outlook, exit the dialog.
5. Assuming you need to create a new profile, do not give it a name but arrow to the set of radio buttons and choose "current application outlook."
6. Exit the dialogue.
7. Follow the instructions other list members have given for disabling the reporting of table formatting.
8. Ensure you save the profile.
9. Try reading the newsletter.
10. You should find that the excessive reporting of layout messages is gone.

When you swap out of outlook, you will find that the document formatting has returned to the original way it was set because the configuration profile has changed to the default or whatever else you have defined.

I find profiles a really handy feature.

Pranav


Bob Cavanaugh
 

Thanks for the tip, I'll try that in the next few days. Now for an
update on my Excel issue, it's still not working properly despite
disabling live preview. When inserting rows, NVDA still refuses to
speak on returning to the workbook. As I said in my original message,
moving away from the workbook and returning works, but I'd prefer to
not do that. Also while we're on the topic of Excel, I have two
questions not entirely related to NVDA, but I'm not sure how to go
about getting answers.
1. I have two workbooks I need to edit monthly, both of which contain
two sheets. The problem is they were created with different versions
of Excel originally, so one uses control page up to move to the next
sheet and one uses control page down. How do I reorder the sheets to
make these accessible using the same command?
2. Is there a way to rename the sheets so that they're not just called
sheet 1, sheet 2, etc?

On 11/19/20, Pranav Lal <pranav.lal@...> wrote:
Hi Bob,

I have dealt with this exact issue. Here is what you do.
1. Launch outlook.
2. Use the nvda key + n to bring up the nvda menu.
3. Navigate to the item called "configuration profiles."
4. In that dialogue, listen for what profile you are on. If it says default,
create a new profile. If it says outlook, exit the dialog.
5. Assuming you need to create a new profile, do not give it a name but
arrow to the set of radio buttons and choose "current application outlook."
6. Exit the dialogue.
7. Follow the instructions other list members have given for disabling the
reporting of table formatting.
8. Ensure you save the profile.
9. Try reading the newsletter.
10. You should find that the excessive reporting of layout messages is
gone.

When you swap out of outlook, you will find that the document formatting has
returned to the original way it was set because the configuration profile
has changed to the default or whatever else you have defined.

I find profiles a really handy feature.

Pranav