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John, Please ignore my previous message and its final typo! Here is what I really meant: Your table looks fine. Have you set these three parameters in Document configuration in the excel profile?: - Open an Excel worksheet to open the Excel profile;
- Press NVDA+Control+d for Document settings;
Activate (Check) all of these items: Tables row/column headings Cell co-ordinates; - Press control+shift +r to set row headings.
If those are all set, you should hear the column headings as described.
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of John Isige
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2022 2:44 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Reading row or column headers in Excel, how does it work? Thanks, everybody! I have a table like so: A1: title a2: artist a3: album If I go to A1 and hit NVDA-shift-c to set column headers, and then arrow down to A2, all is well, I hear Jalla Jalla, which is a track title, followed by A2. However, when I arrow right to B2, I hear Frigg B2. It is my understanding now, and thanks for the great explanation, that I *should* hear Frigg B2 artist. I generated my table by making a CSV file from MP3Tag and then importing that file into Excel, and then saving the resulting worksheet, or workbook, or whatever it is. Could that be the problem? To check I hit ctrl-n to make a new thingy and did: A1: stuff B1: more stuff C1: still more stuff A2: 3 B2: 4 C2: 5 Arrowing down and then right just gave me 4 B2, rather than 4 B2 more stuff, which is what I'd expect from the explanation. On 1/25/2022 5:24 PM, Brian Vogel wrote: On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 05:35 PM, Cearbhall O'Meadhra wrote: In a sample table like this: A1= Invoice; b1=Name; c1= Date; d1= Cost ; …. A2= 4000004325; B2=Fred Smith; C2= 02/02/2022; d2= $25.15; … ….
-
One of the things that many have trouble wrapping their heads around, and I include myself, is that column headings reside in a ROW, and row headings reside in a COLUMN. And, of course, depending on the format of the chart in question it may have only column headings (in one row) or row headings (in one column) but not both.
Cearbhall's example makes a perfectly wonderful illustration of exactly why that is, and also is a marvelous explanation of why what gets announced when it does depending on whether you are moving across (which will make column headings announced) versus down (which will get row headings announced).
My thanks for distilling this so very well.
-- Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044 The instinctive need to be the member of a closely-knit group fighting for common ideals may grow so strong that it becomes inessential what these ideals are. ~ Konrad Lorenz (1903-1989)
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Hello All, I regret to inform you that due to a major "fat finger" a few minutes ago I have deleted the original topic from the archive. This is not a major issue for those who have been reading along via email, but could be for those who either read by the web interface or search the archive. I am asking those who've supplied the messages giving clear explanations of these mechanisms and how they work to please consider doing a copy from your sent folder and paste your answers into replies to this topic. We had quite a few very good answers and explanations, and if it's possible to get those back in the archive from their originators, I'd very much appreciate it. Sorry for the inconvenience. --
Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044
The instinctive need to be the member of a closely-knit group fighting for common ideals may grow so strong that it becomes inessential what these ideals are.
~ Konrad Lorenz (1903-1989)
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Thanks, that did it! I had that set but I wonder if the problem
was that I set it in the general configuration, i.e. in NVDA
outside of Excel? I did apply and then save it, but I wonder if it
didn't get carried over into the Excel profile? Well I set it up,
saved the workbook, and hit ctrl-NVDA-c to save the current
configuration while in Excel. Opening the workbook again works, so
yay!
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On 1/26/2022 3:35 AM, Cearbhall
O'Meadhra wrote:
John,
Your
table looks fine.
Have
you set these three parameters in Document configuration in
the excel profile?:
- Open an Excel worksheet
to open the Excel profile;
- Press NVDA+Control+d
for Document settings;
- Check all of these
items:
Tables
row/column headings
Cell co-ordinates;
- Press control+shift +r
to set row headings.
If
those are all set, you should hear the row headings as
described.
Thanks, everybody! I have a table like so:
A1: title
a2: artist
a3: album
If I go to A1 and hit NVDA-shift-c to set column headers, and
then arrow down to A2, all is well, I hear Jalla Jalla, which
is a track title, followed by A2. However, when I arrow right
to B2, I hear Frigg B2. It is my understanding now, and thanks
for the great explanation, that I *should* hear Frigg B2
artist.
I generated my table by making a CSV file from MP3Tag and
then importing that file into Excel, and then saving the
resulting worksheet, or workbook, or whatever it is. Could
that be the problem? To check I hit ctrl-n to make a new
thingy and did:
A1: stuff
B1: more stuff
C1: still more stuff
A2: 3
B2: 4
C2: 5
Arrowing down and then right just gave me 4 B2, rather than 4
B2 more stuff, which is what I'd expect from the explanation.
On 1/25/2022 5:24 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 05:35 PM,
Cearbhall O'Meadhra wrote:
In a sample
table like this:
A1=
Invoice; b1=Name; c1= Date; d1= Cost ; ….
A2=
4000004325; B2=Fred Smith; C2= 02/02/2022; d2= $25.15; …
….
-
One of the things that many have trouble wrapping their
heads around, and I include myself, is that column headings
reside in a ROW, and row headings reside in a COLUMN. And,
of course, depending on the format of the chart in question
it may have only column headings (in one row) or row
headings (in one column) but not both.
Cearbhall's example makes a perfectly wonderful illustration
of exactly why that is, and also is a marvelous explanation
of why what gets announced when it does depending on whether
you are moving across (which will make column headings
announced) versus down (which will get row headings
announced).
My thanks for distilling this so very well.
--
Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2,
Build 19044
The instinctive need
to be the member of a closely-knit group fighting for
common ideals may grow so strong that it becomes
inessential what these ideals are.
~ Konrad Lorenz (1903-1989)
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John, It does look as though you have a profile for the Spreadsheet. Press NVDA +control +p to see what profiles you have in your NVDA. There should be a “Normal” profile by default. When you are on the desktop, the Normal profile is active. Your column reading parameters would then be saved in the Normal profile. If, as I suspect, you have the “Spreadsheet” profile, this will become active as soon as you open Excel. When you set the parameters while outside Excel, the column reading parameters that you set up were saved in the Normal profile. What you have done now that you have opened Excel, is to set the column reading settings in the Spreadsheet profile and that explains why they are now working whenever you open excel. There is a detailed explanation of the profiles in the NVDA user manual. I recommend you read that and try setting up manual profiles and triggered ones just to see how they work. All the best, Cearbhall m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of John Isige
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2022 5:46 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Reading row or column headers in Excel, how does it work? Thanks, that did it! I had that set but I wonder if the problem was that I set it in the general configuration, i.e. in NVDA outside of Excel? I did apply and then save it, but I wonder if it didn't get carried over into the Excel profile? Well I set it up, saved the workbook, and hit ctrl-NVDA-c to save the current configuration while in Excel. Opening the workbook again works, so yay! On 1/26/2022 3:35 AM, Cearbhall O'Meadhra wrote: John, Your table looks fine. Have you set these three parameters in Document configuration in the excel profile?: - Open an Excel worksheet to open the Excel profile;
- Press NVDA+Control+d for Document settings;
- Check all of these items:
Tables row/column headings Cell co-ordinates; - Press control+shift +r to set row headings.
If those are all set, you should hear the row headings as described. Thanks, everybody! I have a table like so: A1: title a2: artist a3: album If I go to A1 and hit NVDA-shift-c to set column headers, and then arrow down to A2, all is well, I hear Jalla Jalla, which is a track title, followed by A2. However, when I arrow right to B2, I hear Frigg B2. It is my understanding now, and thanks for the great explanation, that I *should* hear Frigg B2 artist. I generated my table by making a CSV file from MP3Tag and then importing that file into Excel, and then saving the resulting worksheet, or workbook, or whatever it is. Could that be the problem? To check I hit ctrl-n to make a new thingy and did: A1: stuff B1: more stuff C1: still more stuff A2: 3 B2: 4 C2: 5 Arrowing down and then right just gave me 4 B2, rather than 4 B2 more stuff, which is what I'd expect from the explanation. On 1/25/2022 5:24 PM, Brian Vogel wrote: On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 05:35 PM, Cearbhall O'Meadhra wrote: In a sample table like this: A1= Invoice; b1=Name; c1= Date; d1= Cost ; …. A2= 4000004325; B2=Fred Smith; C2= 02/02/2022; d2= $25.15; … ….
-
One of the things that many have trouble wrapping their heads around, and I include myself, is that column headings reside in a ROW, and row headings reside in a COLUMN. And, of course, depending on the format of the chart in question it may have only column headings (in one row) or row headings (in one column) but not both.
Cearbhall's example makes a perfectly wonderful illustration of exactly why that is, and also is a marvelous explanation of why what gets announced when it does depending on whether you are moving across (which will make column headings announced) versus down (which will get row headings announced).
My thanks for distilling this so very well.
-- Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044 The instinctive need to be the member of a closely-knit group fighting for common ideals may grow so strong that it becomes inessential what these ideals are. ~ Konrad Lorenz (1903-1989)
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Yeah, I've never had to mess with profiles before at all. So for
instance, if I changed synth settings, and opened Excel let's say,
they stuck. SO I guess I just assumed that the document formatting
settings worked the same way. So I knew about profiles and all,
just not this behavior. But it's actually doubly useful, because
I'd only want the table behavior for something like Excel and not
in NVDA generally. So thanks once again!
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On 1/26/2022 1:03 PM, Cearbhall
O'Meadhra wrote:
John,
It does look as though you have a
profile for the Spreadsheet.
Press NVDA +control +p to see what
profiles you have in your NVDA. There should be a “Normal”
profile by default.
When you are on the desktop, the
Normal profile is active. Your column reading parameters
would then be saved in the Normal profile.
If, as I suspect, you have the
“Spreadsheet” profile, this will become active as soon as
you open Excel.
When you set the parameters while
outside Excel, the column reading parameters that you set up
were saved in the Normal profile.
What you have done now that you have
opened Excel, is to set the column reading settings in the
Spreadsheet profile and that explains why they are now
working whenever you open excel.
There is a detailed explanation of
the profiles in the NVDA user manual. I recommend you read
that and try setting up manual profiles and triggered ones
just to see how they work.
Thanks, that did it! I had that set but I wonder if the
problem was that I set it in the general configuration, i.e.
in NVDA outside of Excel? I did apply and then save it, but I
wonder if it didn't get carried over into the Excel profile?
Well I set it up, saved the workbook, and hit ctrl-NVDA-c to
save the current configuration while in Excel. Opening the
workbook again works, so yay!
On 1/26/2022 3:35 AM, Cearbhall O'Meadhra
wrote:
John,
Your table looks fine.
Have you set these three parameters
in Document configuration in the excel profile?:
- Open an Excel worksheet
to open the Excel profile;
- Press NVDA+Control+d for
Document settings;
- Check all of these items:
Tables
row/column headings
Cell co-ordinates;
- Press control+shift +r to
set row headings.
If those are all set, you should
hear the row headings as described.
Thanks, everybody! I have a table like so:
A1: title
a2: artist
a3: album
If I go to A1 and hit NVDA-shift-c to set column headers,
and then arrow down to A2, all is well, I hear Jalla Jalla,
which is a track title, followed by A2. However, when I
arrow right to B2, I hear Frigg B2. It is my understanding
now, and thanks for the great explanation, that I *should*
hear Frigg B2 artist.
I generated my table by making a CSV file from MP3Tag and
then importing that file into Excel, and then saving the
resulting worksheet, or workbook, or whatever it is. Could
that be the problem? To check I hit ctrl-n to make a new
thingy and did:
A1: stuff
B1: more stuff
C1: still more stuff
A2: 3
B2: 4
C2: 5
Arrowing down and then right just gave me 4 B2, rather than
4 B2 more stuff, which is what I'd expect from the
explanation.
On 1/25/2022 5:24 PM, Brian Vogel
wrote:
On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 05:35 PM,
Cearbhall O'Meadhra wrote:
In a sample table like this:
A1= Invoice; b1=Name; c1=
Date; d1= Cost ; ….
A2= 4000004325; B2=Fred
Smith; C2= 02/02/2022; d2= $25.15; … ….
-
One of the things that many have trouble wrapping their
heads around, and I include myself, is that column
headings reside in a ROW, and row headings reside in a
COLUMN. And, of course, depending on the format of the
chart in question it may have only column headings (in one
row) or row headings (in one column) but not both.
Cearbhall's example makes a perfectly wonderful
illustration of exactly why that is, and also is a
marvelous explanation of why what gets announced when it
does depending on whether you are moving across (which
will make column headings announced) versus down (which
will get row headings announced).
My thanks for distilling this so very well.
--
Brian - Windows
10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044
The instinctive
need to be the member of a closely-knit group
fighting for common ideals may grow so strong that
it becomes inessential what these ideals are.
~ Konrad
Lorenz (1903-1989)
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