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  2. How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in outlook when open them?

locked How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in outlook when open them?

Dennis L <dennisl1982@...>
 

Ok so we are talking about the first line of the email.  If You prefer to go line by line through an email It speaks something you wanted to copy you have to go through the email a second time to do what you would had to do just once if you had it speak no part of the body of the email.  As another user said its about user choice. 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 10:08 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in outlook when open them?

 

First, let's be sure we are talking about the same thing.  I have often seen complaints about the subject line being read when a message is opened in Thunderbird.  Are you talking about that or about the first line of the message body being read?  I can see a justification for requesting that the subject line not be read when a message is opened.  But if your complaint is that the first line of the message body is read, you haven't explained why that is a problem.

 

This behavior, not reading the first line, could be made application specific by the user by using profiles.  But we need to be sure we are talking about the same thing and you need to make a good case for not having the first line of the message body be read if you want the developers to possibly seriously consider adding the feature.

 

Gene

From: Dennis L

Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 8:08 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in outlook when open them?

 

Gene that is not true!  It could be made to be application specific. 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 8:24 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in outlook when open them?

 

This isn't just changing how the program responds in this one situation.  the program behaves in this way every time you open a document in any document reading program.  One person or two people by themselves don't make a convincing case for changing this behavior.  And if you change the behavior by providing a don't read any of document automatically feature, what will you substitute in its place?  Think of what it means.  If nothing is spoken, you won't know when a document has opened.  You may not even know the program itself has opened, if you click on a file and nothing is spoken. 

 

I want verification that something has opened and appears to be working properly.  the most efficient way to do that is by having the first line read automatically.  That way, I get information about the first line, which I often want instead of some sort of generic announcement such as program x has opened, document y has opened and reading something like the title of the document. 

 

In short, you would have to come up with something more efficient and more useful than what you are complaining about now if you want a change because I very much doubt most people want such a change or option.  Are you literally asking that nothing be spoken?  That is most unsatisfactory.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Dennis L

Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 5:12 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in outlook when open them?

 

I have seen at least one other person request this feature.  Its clearly not just me who wants this.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 4:58 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in outlook when open them?

 

On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 04:35 PM, Richard Bartholomew wrote:

to read it in your preferred mode by default.

And when, "your preferred method," could be one of who knows how many, it becomes ridiculous to try to implement said preferences.  This may not be one of those cases, but I am discussing a general principle.

There are constant complaints about how complex the preferences settings are for a wide variety of programs, but those complexities are the direct result of trying to allow individual users maximum control over how things work.  And even then, default choices have to be made, none of which satisfy everyone.

There are times when giving no options makes far more sense than giving many, when exiting the default behavior is a single keystroke away.  You (any you) may argue whether that's the case here, and that's perfectly legitimate discussion, but it's very hard to argue the general principle.  Option bloat is a very serious issue to be considered and it's often hard to strike the right balance between "all" or "nothing" that makes most happy.  Everyone will never be happy.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

      ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019

 

 
Gene
 

Why do you have to go through the e-mail a second time if only the first line is read?  You can select and copy that line as you would any other line.  the reason I'm discussing this is that I can't tell if we can give you a solution to the problem you are having, but I don't understand what it is.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Dennis L
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 9:14 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in outlook when open them?

Ok so we are talking about the first line of the email.  If You prefer to go line by line through an email It speaks something you wanted to copy you have to go through the email a second time to do what you would had to do just once if you had it speak no part of the body of the email.  As another user said its about user choice. 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 10:08 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in outlook when open them?

 

First, let's be sure we are talking about the same thing.  I have often seen complaints about the subject line being read when a message is opened in Thunderbird.  Are you talking about that or about the first line of the message body being read?  I can see a justification for requesting that the subject line not be read when a message is opened.  But if your complaint is that the first line of the message body is read, you haven't explained why that is a problem.

 

This behavior, not reading the first line, could be made application specific by the user by using profiles.  But we need to be sure we are talking about the same thing and you need to make a good case for not having the first line of the message body be read if you want the developers to possibly seriously consider adding the feature.

 

Gene

From: Dennis L

Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 8:08 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in outlook when open them?

 

Gene that is not true!  It could be made to be application specific. 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 8:24 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in outlook when open them?

 

This isn't just changing how the program responds in this one situation.  the program behaves in this way every time you open a document in any document reading program.  One person or two people by themselves don't make a convincing case for changing this behavior.  And if you change the behavior by providing a don't read any of document automatically feature, what will you substitute in its place?  Think of what it means.  If nothing is spoken, you won't know when a document has opened.  You may not even know the program itself has opened, if you click on a file and nothing is spoken. 

 

I want verification that something has opened and appears to be working properly.  the most efficient way to do that is by having the first line read automatically.  That way, I get information about the first line, which I often want instead of some sort of generic announcement such as program x has opened, document y has opened and reading something like the title of the document. 

 

In short, you would have to come up with something more efficient and more useful than what you are complaining about now if you want a change because I very much doubt most people want such a change or option.  Are you literally asking that nothing be spoken?  That is most unsatisfactory.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Dennis L

Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 5:12 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in outlook when open them?

 

I have seen at least one other person request this feature.  Its clearly not just me who wants this.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 4:58 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in outlook when open them?

 

On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 04:35 PM, Richard Bartholomew wrote:

to read it in your preferred mode by default.

And when, "your preferred method," could be one of who knows how many, it becomes ridiculous to try to implement said preferences.  This may not be one of those cases, but I am discussing a general principle.

There are constant complaints about how complex the preferences settings are for a wide variety of programs, but those complexities are the direct result of trying to allow individual users maximum control over how things work.  And even then, default choices have to be made, none of which satisfy everyone.

There are times when giving no options makes far more sense than giving many, when exiting the default behavior is a single keystroke away.  You (any you) may argue whether that's the case here, and that's perfectly legitimate discussion, but it's very hard to argue the general principle.  Option bloat is a very serious issue to be considered and it's often hard to strike the right balance between "all" or "nothing" that makes most happy.  Everyone will never be happy.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

      ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019

 

 
Sarah k Alawami
 

Actually I too would want this. Read the first line of a message this way I know whether to open it or not, or read the first line of a message when I open it this way I can quickly skim. This is often how I read email in my other programs. If I'm not interested, then I won't read it. ON the mac I have my program set not to read messages and I just invoke a say all with my keys locked if I want to hear.

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website.

to subscribe to the feed click here and you can also follow us on twitter

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On 10 May 2020, at 15:40, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 06:12 PM, Dennis L wrote:
Its clearly not just me who wants this.
No, it's not.  So far the "yeas" are 2, and the nays keep increasing.

This will be my last comment.  I'm not saying your wants should not be heard, but I am saying that they appear to be in the distinct minority, and that means they're unlikely to result in any change.

Hareth's comment expresses my personal feeling/opinion on the matter, but better.  My comment to Richard Bartholomew, https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda/message/73646, can stand as a final statement from me that addresses the underlying considerations.

And, again, as has been emphasized elsewhere on this very group over the last several days:  If you have a change you wish to see, then please, file a feature request (for a new or extended feature) or a bug report on NVDA's GitHub.  That's how things actually get rolling, at least when they do get rolling.  The response to any feature request can be either, "No," or, "Not now, and it's a low priority."  Real bugs always get addressed in order of severity.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

      ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019

 

 
Sarah k Alawami
 

Actually I have my web pages not read a thing. I know when they are open only when I check, and for me that's fine. Same with most messages, although reading the first line would be nice.

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website.

to subscribe to the feed click here and you can also follow us on twitter

Our discord is where you will know when we go live on [twitch.](http://twitch.tv/ke7zum] Feel free to give the channel a follow and see what is up there.

For stream archives, products you can buy and more visit my main lbry page and my tffp lbry page You will also be able to buy some of my products and eBooks there.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 10 May 2020, at 17:23, Gene wrote:

This isn't just changing how the program responds in this one situation.  the program behaves in this way every time you open a document in any document reading program.  One person or two people by themselves don't make a convincing case for changing this behavior.  And if you change the behavior by providing a don't read any of document automatically feature, what will you substitute in its place?  Think of what it means.  If nothing is spoken, you won't know when a document has opened.  You may not even know the program itself has opened, if you click on a file and nothing is spoken. 
 
I want verification that something has opened and appears to be working properly.  the most efficient way to do that is by having the first line read automatically.  That way, I get information about the first line, which I often want instead of some sort of generic announcement such as program x has opened, document y has opened and reading something like the title of the document. 
 
In short, you would have to come up with something more efficient and more useful than what you are complaining about now if you want a change because I very much doubt most people want such a change or option.  Are you literally asking that nothing be spoken?  That is most unsatisfactory.
 
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Dennis L
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 5:12 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in outlook when open them?

I have seen at least one other person request this feature.  Its clearly not just me who wants this.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 4:58 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in outlook when open them?

 

On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 04:35 PM, Richard Bartholomew wrote:

to read it in your preferred mode by default.

And when, "your preferred method," could be one of who knows how many, it becomes ridiculous to try to implement said preferences.  This may not be one of those cases, but I am discussing a general principle.

There are constant complaints about how complex the preferences settings are for a wide variety of programs, but those complexities are the direct result of trying to allow individual users maximum control over how things work.  And even then, default choices have to be made, none of which satisfy everyone.

There are times when giving no options makes far more sense than giving many, when exiting the default behavior is a single keystroke away.  You (any you) may argue whether that's the case here, and that's perfectly legitimate discussion, but it's very hard to argue the general principle.  Option bloat is a very serious issue to be considered and it's often hard to strike the right balance between "all" or "nothing" that makes most happy.  Everyone will never be happy.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

      ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019

 

 
Brian Vogel
 

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 12:01 PM, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
Actually I too would want this
Sarah, shame on you for not having read through the entire thread, as the "this" you're requesting has already been stated as possible and the NVDA setting discussed.

Your "this" and the original posters "this" are not the same thing, so, no, you don't want it.  Read the first 4 messages of this very topic.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

      ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019

 

 
Luke Davis
 

Web pages are a little different though. If you go to a web page, there might be several minutes of reading menus, sidebars, headers, and other crap, before you ever get to the meat of the page.
That's why the auto read for webpages can be turned off.

With an email, if you open it, presumably you intend to read all or part of it, and so it is more reasonable to start reading it.

That said, in my mind, it would make a lot more sense if it started reading the entire mesage rather than just the first line. If it just reads the first line, you still have to take manual action to read the rest of the message. It seems like it would not be satisfying either the people who want to hear nothing, or the ones who want to hear the entire message without doing anything after they hit open. So I'm not sure of the value of a first line only read.

Luke

On Mon, 11 May 2020, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

Actually I have my web pages not read a thing. I know when they are open only when I check, and for me that's fine. Same with most messages, although
reading the first line would be nice.
Gene
 

If you are reading mail as HTML, it will, by default, read the entire message.  There is a setting in NVDA to not automatically use read to end which, as I recall, is in the Browse Mode settings.
 
If you turn this off, I would expect, though I haven't checked, that the first line of the message would be read.  This will affect anything using browse mode unless you use a profile. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Luke Davis
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 11:54 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages in outlook when open them?

Web pages are a little different though. If you go to a web page, there might be
several minutes of reading menus, sidebars, headers, and other crap, before you
ever get to the meat of the page.
That's why the auto read for webpages can be turned off.

With an email, if you open it, presumably you intend to read all or part of it,
and so it is more reasonable to start reading it.

That said, in my mind, it would make a lot more sense if it started reading the
entire mesage rather than just the first line. If it just reads the first line,
you still have to take manual action to read the rest of the message. It seems
like it would not be satisfying either the people who want to hear nothing, or
the ones who want to hear the entire message without doing anything after they
hit open. So I'm not sure of the value of a first line only read.

Luke

  On Mon, 11 May 2020, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

> Actually I have my web pages not read a thing. I know when they are open only when I check, and for me that's fine. Same with most messages, although
> reading the first line would be nice.
Dennis L <dennisl1982@...>
 

This is why the option for this should be user controllable. Read it all
Read nothing or read the first line. Than the user could choose what works
for them.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Luke Davis
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 12:54 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] How to prevent NVDA from automatically reading messages
in outlook when open them?

Web pages are a little different though. If you go to a web page, there
might be several minutes of reading menus, sidebars, headers, and other
crap, before you ever get to the meat of the page.
That's why the auto read for webpages can be turned off.

With an email, if you open it, presumably you intend to read all or part of
it, and so it is more reasonable to start reading it.

That said, in my mind, it would make a lot more sense if it started reading
the entire mesage rather than just the first line. If it just reads the
first line, you still have to take manual action to read the rest of the
message. It seems like it would not be satisfying either the people who want
to hear nothing, or the ones who want to hear the entire message without
doing anything after they hit open. So I'm not sure of the value of a first
line only read.

Luke

On Mon, 11 May 2020, Sarah k Alawami wrote:

Actually I have my web pages not read a thing. I know when they are open
only when I check, and for me that's fine. Same with most messages, although
reading the first line would be nice.
Brian Vogel
 

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 02:22 PM, Dennis L wrote:
This is why the option for this should be user controllable. Read it all
Read nothing or read the first line. Than the user could choose what works
for them.
Then, please, submit a feature request to the NVDA Github page, as it is abundantly clear that what you are seeking does not exist at this time.

And, this topic is now entirely exhausted, and is locked.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Science has become just another voice in the room; it has lost its platform.  Now, you simply declare your own truth.

      ~ Dr. Paul A. Offit, in New York Times article, How Anti-Vaccine Sentiment Took Hold in the United States, September 23, 2019

 

 
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