Topics

Is any release prior to the latest stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

 

hi david and quentin.
i use xp and also i do all of my works with it.
i use internet, libreoffice, notepad, potplayer and one conversion software.
i dont have the security programs because realy i dont trust them!

On 12/6/16, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:
You're more of an expert on what works under XP than me Brian, that's great
info!

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 8:18 PM, Brian's Mail list account <
bglists@...> wrote:

Well, as far as I am aware, the basic plan is to not break XP if it is at
all possible, but just occasionally this might not be possible as the
windows code changes.
Indeed at the moment xp portable versions of even the next snapshots are
very good. Try running portable copies of nvda on, say windows 10 and you
will find lots of things that no longer work due to the security of that
operating system not allowing access to parts of windows from a portable
app.
the big problem at present for those using XP is the web browser.
Depending on your processor, 50 is the last version I can get to work on
xp
with intel processors, and 48 is the last one on xp with amd processors.
This is due to the lack of sse2 instruction set support on the amd
chips.
Dropbox, no matter what Dropbox say, is working fine again on xp intel
processors at version 15, though they do warn that this could change as
its officially not supported. AMD chips last working version of Dropbox
is
13, and one has to disable updates by nefarious means to keep it working
on
such hardware.

The hack to continue to get xp updates is still working for MSSE, but his
month no xp security updates came down. whether this means they have
blocked the loophole or just they have given up I cannot say.
I notice that Flash for IE8 is seemingly not being updated by Adobe, but
seems to be working in Firefox 50 at the moment.
Adobe reader DC is not usable on XP and 11 is the last version.

I'm sure there are many other issues but that really depends on what you
are doing.
Its gratifying to note that the hacked copy of Outlook express that works
in 10 is still supported by nvda, and its only issue is that its preview
pane has to be turned off or it will fall over sometimes.


Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "David" <trailerdavid@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 8:31 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release,
and
thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease


Is XP REALLY not being supported any longer?


Could be. But I did read an article - think it is about a year ago -
where it was stated that Microsoft continue to support XP for
businesses, of course not free of charge. Cannot speak for the validity
of the article, and do not know if I even bookmarked it either.


A whole other thing to keep in mind, is this:

Do you have an XP machine, and only connect it to the net to update your
security software, you might still be able to use it offline for a long
time yet. And if you only update the database of your security software,
that software will keep rolling under XP for who knows how long.


From what I can see, several users still use XP. Even for those of us
who happen to have made the step forward, to some newer flavor of
Windows, many of us still keep XP machines hanging around. Personally, I
do join the ones who have an XP machine, simply because I have software
that is needed for certain tasks, which would not impose a security
risk, but which cannot be run under newer Windows. That is, my XP
machine is not going online, but I still need a screen reader for it.
And, as the commercial screen readers tend to stop supporting an OS,
whenever Microsoft does, I am happy to learn that NVDA apparently
continues to run under XP. Hopefully, that will leave many of us the
chance to continue using our older equipment, for tasks that totally
well could be run on an offline, XP system.


Seemingly too, there will be many places in the world, where they still
commonly use XP. Not everyone could afford the upgrade of the OS, and
basically there might not be too much more holes in XP, than in any
newer flavors of Windows. According to what I read, both Win8 and 10,
seem to have open holes. Some even are well known, but for whatever
reason are not being cared for. And many times, the biggest holes are
not in your OS itself, but more in the communication between you and the
Internet. Such net related holes, might be independent on which OS you
are running.


Just some thoughts to keep in mind, when advicing.

David

On 12/6/2016 6:49 AM, Shaun Everiss wrote:

Xp is dead, it will probably stay in core for a while but to be honest
microsoft has deemed it unsupported so its crap os now and any
computer with it will have malware and be crappy to because microsoft
says so and I really don't aggree with microsoft but its the way it is.
Xp like win98 and other good versions of windows is history, soon 7
will be then we will have to struggle with 10.



On 6/12/2016 3:10 p.m., Michael Capelle wrote:

please, do not get rid of xp support.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Quentin Christensen"
<quentin@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease


That's true Gene. I had a thought in mind about Windows XP as well,
although when I looked back at Nasrin's original question re
Potplayer, it
was using Windows 7 - although there are multiple versions of Windows
7 as
well (for the record, I have Windows 7 home premium, SP1 64 bit).

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 11:18 AM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

And, of course, you aren't testing with XP. That may be the cause of
these problems.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Quentin Christensen <quentin@...>
*Sent:* Monday, December 05, 2016 6:08 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

Hi everyone,

I downloaded the version that Nasrin linked to, which was the same
one
Gene tried - version 1.6.6385619.7.

It doesn't have a traditional alt menu and you also can't tab around
the
main screen to read the information which is displayed visually.
However,
you can get to the commands via the applications key, and there are
keystrokes for most things, once you know what they are.

I tried it on both Windows 10 and Windows 7, and found that I could
play
MP3 files with it, pause and play again, and alt+f4 to close when I
finished listening to a couple of songs, and everything seems fine?
I'm
using NVDA 2016.4rc1 Actually I just realised I still had 2016.3 on
the
Windows 7 machine so I've gone back and tried with 2016.4rc1 and
again, I
couldn't reproduce the crash, even after listening to a few songs.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 9:11 AM, David Moore
<jesusloves1966@...>
wrote:

Hi, That is true,

Narrator, in win10 anniversary update, has enabled me to access
controls
that I could not access with JAWS or NVDA. I highly recommend that
one
learn how to use Narrator, because it is getting more and more
powful in
win10, and can do a few things that high-end screen readers cannot
do.
Think that you have three screen readerrs, Narrator, NVDA, and JAWS
or
Window eyes that you can use in demo mode.

David Moore

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
Windows 10



*From: *David <trailerdavid@...>
*Sent: *Monday, December 5, 2016 3:12 PM
*To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject: *Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease



Just for your correction.





You said you do NOT have any other screen reader to test? I do

understand what you mean, but it is not fully and completely true.





ALL, and I mean ALL flavors of Windows - from at least XP and up -
holds

Microsoft's embedded screen reader, named NARRATOR. Though far from

being a full-fledged screen reader, it many times can help you out.
For

instance, due to its very basic functionality, it at least could
give

you some idea to what extend a piece of software is accessible at
all.

If NARRATOR cannot help you out, then chances are that the software
at

the minimum requires some more advanced features of the screen
reader.





I do, and have don so in other settings, on a general basis
encourage

all: If your high-end screen reader cannot do what you want, give

Narrator a go. Then com back and report your findings.





Might sound a bit awkward at first glance. But sometimes the
high-end

screen readers might have settings, that complicates the usage of a

software. Running Narrator, finding that things work, you might be
able

to start tracing why the high-end screen reader does not do what you
expect.





Furthermore, most - if not all - of the high-end screen readers, do
have

downloadable demo-versions. Might be an idea, to download and
install at

least one such demo, and use it for cases when you want to
determine if

NVDA is the bottleneck of your issue. Far as I know, they all
provide

you fully working products, with an up-time of anything from 30 to
60

minutes; Enough time to get an idea of whether your third-party
software

is workable or not.





In the older days, installing more than one screen reader, sometimes

caused system trouble. To the best of my knowledge, such is NOT the
case

any longer, and have not been for a decade or so. In other words,

encouraged are everyone, to go get yourself at least one backup
screen

reader, if nothing else go for a demo. It further might help the
tech

team of NVDA getting to the core of your problem, if you can
describe

what is taken place when running an alternative screen reader.





How do you know, if you prefer McDonald burgers, if you never tasted

anything but Burger-King?





David







On 12/5/2016 5:22 PM, nasrin khaksar wrote:

gene.
thanks so much for helping me to test the program.
i dont have any screen reader except nvda to test.
me too, use windows xp service pack 3
you dont need to use nvda cursors to intract with potplayer menus.
you should only press the application keys and you can access to
all
menus and options by normal arrow keys.
only nvda freezes and says nothing in the windows except unknown.
i should restart nvda to work as normal.
On 12/5/16, Brian Vogel <@britechguy> wrote:
Well, this thread has taken an interesting turn that I hadn't
ever
anticipated (and, to quote Seinfeld, "not that there's anything
wrong
with

that.")
So I'll use this to get back on my soapbox about when anyone
encounters an

issue with any software or combination of software:
* if you cannot give steps necessary to replicate the problem
there's

virtually no hope that the problem can or will be solved
* if you can give steps necessary to replicate the problem, but
others

running the same operating system and similar overall
configuration
that you

are don't have it when they perform those steps, this suggests an
idiosyncratic problem with your own system
I cannot count the number of times when I've spent hours on a
given
problem

only to find out that it was a weird interaction between two
programs
that

are installed, that a system has not been updated and old DLL
files >> are

being called that have errors that have long ago been fixed, etc.
I'm not saying that anyone is directly "at fault" for anything,
but
these

are factors that you must consider and there will be occasions
when
"it's

just you" as well as many more when it's "not just you." Having
a
detective's mindset is essential in instances such as this.
--
*Brian*
*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is
complete.
If

you’re alive, it isn’t.*
~ Lauren Bacall









--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306 <%2B61%207%203149%203306>
Direct: +61 413 904 383 <+61%20413%20904%20383>
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess




.







--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306
Direct: +61 413 904 383
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess
--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org

 

hi jacob.
thanks so much for helping me.

can you please test many files with potplayer?
eventually for me nvda is not responding and i dont know how to solve
this problem.

On 12/6/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
hi david and quentin.
i use xp and also i do all of my works with it.
i use internet, libreoffice, notepad, potplayer and one conversion
software.
i dont have the security programs because realy i dont trust them!

On 12/6/16, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:
You're more of an expert on what works under XP than me Brian, that's
great
info!

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 8:18 PM, Brian's Mail list account <
bglists@...> wrote:

Well, as far as I am aware, the basic plan is to not break XP if it is
at
all possible, but just occasionally this might not be possible as the
windows code changes.
Indeed at the moment xp portable versions of even the next snapshots are
very good. Try running portable copies of nvda on, say windows 10 and
you
will find lots of things that no longer work due to the security of
that
operating system not allowing access to parts of windows from a portable
app.
the big problem at present for those using XP is the web browser.
Depending on your processor, 50 is the last version I can get to work on
xp
with intel processors, and 48 is the last one on xp with amd processors.
This is due to the lack of sse2 instruction set support on the amd
chips.
Dropbox, no matter what Dropbox say, is working fine again on xp intel
processors at version 15, though they do warn that this could change as
its officially not supported. AMD chips last working version of Dropbox
is
13, and one has to disable updates by nefarious means to keep it working
on
such hardware.

The hack to continue to get xp updates is still working for MSSE, but
his
month no xp security updates came down. whether this means they have
blocked the loophole or just they have given up I cannot say.
I notice that Flash for IE8 is seemingly not being updated by Adobe, but
seems to be working in Firefox 50 at the moment.
Adobe reader DC is not usable on XP and 11 is the last version.

I'm sure there are many other issues but that really depends on what you
are doing.
Its gratifying to note that the hacked copy of Outlook express that
works
in 10 is still supported by nvda, and its only issue is that its preview
pane has to be turned off or it will fall over sometimes.


Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "David" <trailerdavid@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 8:31 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release,
and
thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease


Is XP REALLY not being supported any longer?


Could be. But I did read an article - think it is about a year ago -
where it was stated that Microsoft continue to support XP for
businesses, of course not free of charge. Cannot speak for the validity
of the article, and do not know if I even bookmarked it either.


A whole other thing to keep in mind, is this:

Do you have an XP machine, and only connect it to the net to update
your
security software, you might still be able to use it offline for a long
time yet. And if you only update the database of your security
software,
that software will keep rolling under XP for who knows how long.


From what I can see, several users still use XP. Even for those of us
who happen to have made the step forward, to some newer flavor of
Windows, many of us still keep XP machines hanging around. Personally,
I
do join the ones who have an XP machine, simply because I have software
that is needed for certain tasks, which would not impose a security
risk, but which cannot be run under newer Windows. That is, my XP
machine is not going online, but I still need a screen reader for it.
And, as the commercial screen readers tend to stop supporting an OS,
whenever Microsoft does, I am happy to learn that NVDA apparently
continues to run under XP. Hopefully, that will leave many of us the
chance to continue using our older equipment, for tasks that totally
well could be run on an offline, XP system.


Seemingly too, there will be many places in the world, where they still
commonly use XP. Not everyone could afford the upgrade of the OS, and
basically there might not be too much more holes in XP, than in any
newer flavors of Windows. According to what I read, both Win8 and 10,
seem to have open holes. Some even are well known, but for whatever
reason are not being cared for. And many times, the biggest holes are
not in your OS itself, but more in the communication between you and
the
Internet. Such net related holes, might be independent on which OS you
are running.


Just some thoughts to keep in mind, when advicing.

David

On 12/6/2016 6:49 AM, Shaun Everiss wrote:

Xp is dead, it will probably stay in core for a while but to be honest
microsoft has deemed it unsupported so its crap os now and any
computer with it will have malware and be crappy to because microsoft
says so and I really don't aggree with microsoft but its the way it
is.
Xp like win98 and other good versions of windows is history, soon 7
will be then we will have to struggle with 10.



On 6/12/2016 3:10 p.m., Michael Capelle wrote:

please, do not get rid of xp support.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Quentin Christensen"
<quentin@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease


That's true Gene. I had a thought in mind about Windows XP as well,
although when I looked back at Nasrin's original question re
Potplayer, it
was using Windows 7 - although there are multiple versions of Windows
7 as
well (for the record, I have Windows 7 home premium, SP1 64 bit).

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 11:18 AM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

And, of course, you aren't testing with XP. That may be the cause of
these problems.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Quentin Christensen <quentin@...>
*Sent:* Monday, December 05, 2016 6:08 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

Hi everyone,

I downloaded the version that Nasrin linked to, which was the same
one
Gene tried - version 1.6.6385619.7.

It doesn't have a traditional alt menu and you also can't tab around
the
main screen to read the information which is displayed visually.
However,
you can get to the commands via the applications key, and there are
keystrokes for most things, once you know what they are.

I tried it on both Windows 10 and Windows 7, and found that I could
play
MP3 files with it, pause and play again, and alt+f4 to close when I
finished listening to a couple of songs, and everything seems fine?
I'm
using NVDA 2016.4rc1 Actually I just realised I still had 2016.3 on
the
Windows 7 machine so I've gone back and tried with 2016.4rc1 and
again, I
couldn't reproduce the crash, even after listening to a few songs.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 9:11 AM, David Moore
<jesusloves1966@...>
wrote:

Hi, That is true,

Narrator, in win10 anniversary update, has enabled me to access
controls
that I could not access with JAWS or NVDA. I highly recommend that
one
learn how to use Narrator, because it is getting more and more
powful in
win10, and can do a few things that high-end screen readers cannot
do.
Think that you have three screen readerrs, Narrator, NVDA, and JAWS
or
Window eyes that you can use in demo mode.

David Moore

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
Windows 10



*From: *David <trailerdavid@...>
*Sent: *Monday, December 5, 2016 3:12 PM
*To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject: *Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease



Just for your correction.





You said you do NOT have any other screen reader to test? I do

understand what you mean, but it is not fully and completely true.





ALL, and I mean ALL flavors of Windows - from at least XP and up -
holds

Microsoft's embedded screen reader, named NARRATOR. Though far from

being a full-fledged screen reader, it many times can help you out.
For

instance, due to its very basic functionality, it at least could
give

you some idea to what extend a piece of software is accessible at
all.

If NARRATOR cannot help you out, then chances are that the software
at

the minimum requires some more advanced features of the screen
reader.





I do, and have don so in other settings, on a general basis
encourage

all: If your high-end screen reader cannot do what you want, give

Narrator a go. Then com back and report your findings.





Might sound a bit awkward at first glance. But sometimes the
high-end

screen readers might have settings, that complicates the usage of a

software. Running Narrator, finding that things work, you might be
able

to start tracing why the high-end screen reader does not do what
you
expect.





Furthermore, most - if not all - of the high-end screen readers, do
have

downloadable demo-versions. Might be an idea, to download and
install at

least one such demo, and use it for cases when you want to
determine if

NVDA is the bottleneck of your issue. Far as I know, they all
provide

you fully working products, with an up-time of anything from 30 to
60

minutes; Enough time to get an idea of whether your third-party
software

is workable or not.





In the older days, installing more than one screen reader,
sometimes

caused system trouble. To the best of my knowledge, such is NOT the
case

any longer, and have not been for a decade or so. In other words,

encouraged are everyone, to go get yourself at least one backup
screen

reader, if nothing else go for a demo. It further might help the
tech

team of NVDA getting to the core of your problem, if you can
describe

what is taken place when running an alternative screen reader.





How do you know, if you prefer McDonald burgers, if you never
tasted

anything but Burger-King?





David







On 12/5/2016 5:22 PM, nasrin khaksar wrote:

gene.
thanks so much for helping me to test the program.
i dont have any screen reader except nvda to test.
me too, use windows xp service pack 3
you dont need to use nvda cursors to intract with potplayer
menus.
you should only press the application keys and you can access to
all
menus and options by normal arrow keys.
only nvda freezes and says nothing in the windows except unknown.
i should restart nvda to work as normal.
On 12/5/16, Brian Vogel <@britechguy> wrote:
Well, this thread has taken an interesting turn that I hadn't
ever
anticipated (and, to quote Seinfeld, "not that there's anything
wrong
with

that.")
So I'll use this to get back on my soapbox about when anyone
encounters an

issue with any software or combination of software:
* if you cannot give steps necessary to replicate the problem
there's

virtually no hope that the problem can or will be solved
* if you can give steps necessary to replicate the problem, but
others

running the same operating system and similar overall
configuration
that you

are don't have it when they perform those steps, this suggests
an
idiosyncratic problem with your own system
I cannot count the number of times when I've spent hours on a
given
problem

only to find out that it was a weird interaction between two
programs
that

are installed, that a system has not been updated and old DLL
files >> are

being called that have errors that have long ago been fixed,
etc.
I'm not saying that anyone is directly "at fault" for anything,
but
these

are factors that you must consider and there will be occasions
when
"it's

just you" as well as many more when it's "not just you." Having
a
detective's mindset is essential in instances such as this.
--
*Brian*
*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is
complete.
If

you’re alive, it isn’t.*
~ Lauren Bacall









--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306 <%2B61%207%203149%203306>
Direct: +61 413 904 383 <+61%20413%20904%20383>
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess




.







--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306
Direct: +61 413 904 383
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess

--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org



--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org

Davy Cuppens
 

David
 
What kind of controls are you talking about, controls that can be managed with narrator?
Regards
Davy
 

Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 11:11 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease
 

Hi, That is true,

Narrator, in win10 anniversary update, has enabled me to access controls that I could not access with JAWS or NVDA. I highly recommend that one learn how to use Narrator, because it is getting more and more powful in win10, and can do a few things that high-end screen readers cannot do. Think that you have three screen readerrs, Narrator, NVDA, and JAWS or Window eyes that you can use in demo mode.

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: David
Sent: Monday, December 5, 2016 3:12 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

 

Just for your correction.

 

 

You said you do NOT have any other screen reader to test? I do

understand what you mean, but it is not fully and completely true.

 

 

ALL, and I mean ALL flavors of Windows - from at least XP and up - holds

Microsoft's embedded screen reader, named NARRATOR. Though far from

being a full-fledged screen reader, it many times can help you out. For

instance, due to its very basic functionality, it at least could give

you some idea to what extend a piece of software is accessible at all.

If NARRATOR cannot help you out, then chances are that the software at

the minimum requires some more advanced features of the screen reader.

 

 

I do, and have don so in other settings, on a general basis encourage

all: If your high-end screen reader cannot do what you want, give

Narrator a go. Then com back and report your findings.

 

 

Might sound a bit awkward at first glance. But sometimes the high-end

screen readers might have settings, that complicates the usage of a

software. Running Narrator, finding that things work, you might be able

to start tracing why the high-end screen reader does not do what you expect.

 

 

Furthermore, most - if not all - of the high-end screen readers, do have

downloadable demo-versions. Might be an idea, to download and install at

least one such demo, and use it for cases when you want to determine if

NVDA is the bottleneck of your issue. Far as I know, they all provide

you fully working products, with an up-time of anything from 30 to 60

minutes; Enough time to get an idea of whether your third-party software

is workable or not.

 

 

In the older days, installing more than one screen reader, sometimes

caused system trouble. To the best of my knowledge, such is NOT the case

any longer, and have not been for a decade or so. In other words,

encouraged are everyone, to go get yourself at least one backup screen

reader, if nothing else go for a demo. It further might help the tech

team of NVDA getting to the core of your problem, if you can describe

what is taken place when running an alternative screen reader.

 

 

How do you know, if you prefer McDonald burgers, if you never tasted

anything but Burger-King?

 

 

David

 

 

 

On 12/5/2016 5:22 PM, nasrin khaksar wrote:

> gene.

> thanks so much for helping me to test the program.

> i dont have any screen reader except nvda to test.

> me too, use windows xp service pack 3

> you dont need to use nvda cursors to intract with potplayer menus.

> you should only press the application keys and you can access to all

> menus and options by normal arrow keys.

> only nvda freezes and says nothing in the windows except unknown.

> i should restart nvda to work as normal.

>

> On 12/5/16, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

>> Well, this thread has taken an interesting turn that I hadn't ever

>> anticipated (and, to quote Seinfeld, "not that there's anything wrong with

>> that.")

>>

>> So I'll use this to get back on my soapbox about when anyone encounters an

>> issue with any software or combination of software:

>>

>> * if you cannot give steps necessary to replicate the problem there's

>> virtually no hope that the problem can or will be solved

>> * if you can give steps necessary to replicate the problem, but others

>> running the same operating system and similar overall configuration that you

>> are don't have it when they perform those steps, this suggests an

>> idiosyncratic problem with your own system

>>

>> I cannot count the number of times when I've spent hours on a given problem

>> only to find out that it was a weird interaction between two programs that

>> are installed, that a system has not been updated and old DLL files are

>> being called that have errors that have long ago been fixed, etc.

>>

>> I'm not saying that anyone is directly "at fault" for anything, but these

>> are factors that you must consider and there will be occasions when "it's

>> just you" as well as many more when it's "not just you."  Having a

>> detective's mindset is essential in instances such as this.

>> --

>> *Brian*

>>

>> *Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete.  If

>> you’re alive, it isn’t.*

>>

>>     ~ Lauren Bacall

>>

>

 

 

 

 

 

hi joseph.
yes, i use windows xp and i heard that .UIA is not supported on xp.
i did not change an important option for accessibility.


hi david.
my windows has problem and i dont know the reason.
but i should say that my windows has not narrator at all!
i tested this and and i am sure that i dont have narrator to test!
moreover, microsoft sam is not understandable for me and i cant
recognize what he says and what message does he read!
and also for me, i could not install another screen reader beside
nvda, because my system faces hangs, crashes and for me in my system,
screen readers are not compatible with each other.
you mentioned that having more than one screen reader does not cause
trouble, but for me it causes!


hi gene.
i tested many versions of potplayer and the result of testing all
versions, was crash of nvda since version 2015.4
so, its a regression in nvda 2015.4, because in 2015.3 i did not face
such problem.
yes. the current stable version of potplayer as you and quentin
mentioned, is 1.6.63856
but as i said i tried different versions and could not solve the issue myself.
also, i did not change any settings in potplayer including: skins,
visual appearance, and its other settings.
vlc is not accessible for me, not has great quality and needs powerful system.
i tried it and the result was only system resources consumption and
crashes of the program for me!
and the only satisfactory program for me is potplayer.
i found this in many month research, many program tested and going to
the many websites.
also, thanks so much for your link.
i joined this and repeated my problem.
the problem for me is only crashing of nvda, not potplayer!


hi quentin.
thanks extremely for your kindness.
i dont think that my problem is related to specific version of windows
and also specific version of potplayer.
i am sure there is one problem with nvda and potplayer which is
regression from nvda 2015.4 and later versions.

On 12/6/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
hi jacob.
thanks so much for helping me.

can you please test many files with potplayer?
eventually for me nvda is not responding and i dont know how to solve
this problem.

On 12/6/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
hi david and quentin.
i use xp and also i do all of my works with it.
i use internet, libreoffice, notepad, potplayer and one conversion
software.
i dont have the security programs because realy i dont trust them!

On 12/6/16, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:
You're more of an expert on what works under XP than me Brian, that's
great
info!

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 8:18 PM, Brian's Mail list account <
bglists@...> wrote:

Well, as far as I am aware, the basic plan is to not break XP if it is
at
all possible, but just occasionally this might not be possible as the
windows code changes.
Indeed at the moment xp portable versions of even the next snapshots
are
very good. Try running portable copies of nvda on, say windows 10 and
you
will find lots of things that no longer work due to the security of
that
operating system not allowing access to parts of windows from a
portable
app.
the big problem at present for those using XP is the web browser.
Depending on your processor, 50 is the last version I can get to work
on
xp
with intel processors, and 48 is the last one on xp with amd
processors.
This is due to the lack of sse2 instruction set support on the amd
chips.
Dropbox, no matter what Dropbox say, is working fine again on xp intel
processors at version 15, though they do warn that this could change
as
its officially not supported. AMD chips last working version of Dropbox
is
13, and one has to disable updates by nefarious means to keep it
working
on
such hardware.

The hack to continue to get xp updates is still working for MSSE, but
his
month no xp security updates came down. whether this means they have
blocked the loophole or just they have given up I cannot say.
I notice that Flash for IE8 is seemingly not being updated by Adobe,
but
seems to be working in Firefox 50 at the moment.
Adobe reader DC is not usable on XP and 11 is the last version.

I'm sure there are many other issues but that really depends on what
you
are doing.
Its gratifying to note that the hacked copy of Outlook express that
works
in 10 is still supported by nvda, and its only issue is that its
preview
pane has to be turned off or it will fall over sometimes.


Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "David" <trailerdavid@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 8:31 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release,
and
thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease


Is XP REALLY not being supported any longer?


Could be. But I did read an article - think it is about a year ago -
where it was stated that Microsoft continue to support XP for
businesses, of course not free of charge. Cannot speak for the
validity
of the article, and do not know if I even bookmarked it either.


A whole other thing to keep in mind, is this:

Do you have an XP machine, and only connect it to the net to update
your
security software, you might still be able to use it offline for a
long
time yet. And if you only update the database of your security
software,
that software will keep rolling under XP for who knows how long.


From what I can see, several users still use XP. Even for those of us
who happen to have made the step forward, to some newer flavor of
Windows, many of us still keep XP machines hanging around. Personally,
I
do join the ones who have an XP machine, simply because I have
software
that is needed for certain tasks, which would not impose a security
risk, but which cannot be run under newer Windows. That is, my XP
machine is not going online, but I still need a screen reader for it.
And, as the commercial screen readers tend to stop supporting an OS,
whenever Microsoft does, I am happy to learn that NVDA apparently
continues to run under XP. Hopefully, that will leave many of us the
chance to continue using our older equipment, for tasks that totally
well could be run on an offline, XP system.


Seemingly too, there will be many places in the world, where they
still
commonly use XP. Not everyone could afford the upgrade of the OS, and
basically there might not be too much more holes in XP, than in any
newer flavors of Windows. According to what I read, both Win8 and 10,
seem to have open holes. Some even are well known, but for whatever
reason are not being cared for. And many times, the biggest holes are
not in your OS itself, but more in the communication between you and
the
Internet. Such net related holes, might be independent on which OS you
are running.


Just some thoughts to keep in mind, when advicing.

David

On 12/6/2016 6:49 AM, Shaun Everiss wrote:

Xp is dead, it will probably stay in core for a while but to be
honest
microsoft has deemed it unsupported so its crap os now and any
computer with it will have malware and be crappy to because microsoft
says so and I really don't aggree with microsoft but its the way it
is.
Xp like win98 and other good versions of windows is history, soon 7
will be then we will have to struggle with 10.



On 6/12/2016 3:10 p.m., Michael Capelle wrote:

please, do not get rid of xp support.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Quentin Christensen"
<quentin@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease


That's true Gene. I had a thought in mind about Windows XP as well,
although when I looked back at Nasrin's original question re
Potplayer, it
was using Windows 7 - although there are multiple versions of
Windows
7 as
well (for the record, I have Windows 7 home premium, SP1 64 bit).

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 11:18 AM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

And, of course, you aren't testing with XP. That may be the cause
of
these problems.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Quentin Christensen <quentin@...>
*Sent:* Monday, December 05, 2016 6:08 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

Hi everyone,

I downloaded the version that Nasrin linked to, which was the same
one
Gene tried - version 1.6.6385619.7.

It doesn't have a traditional alt menu and you also can't tab
around
the
main screen to read the information which is displayed visually.
However,
you can get to the commands via the applications key, and there are
keystrokes for most things, once you know what they are.

I tried it on both Windows 10 and Windows 7, and found that I could
play
MP3 files with it, pause and play again, and alt+f4 to close when I
finished listening to a couple of songs, and everything seems fine?
I'm
using NVDA 2016.4rc1 Actually I just realised I still had 2016.3
on
the
Windows 7 machine so I've gone back and tried with 2016.4rc1 and
again, I
couldn't reproduce the crash, even after listening to a few songs.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 9:11 AM, David Moore
<jesusloves1966@...>
wrote:

Hi, That is true,

Narrator, in win10 anniversary update, has enabled me to access
controls
that I could not access with JAWS or NVDA. I highly recommend that
one
learn how to use Narrator, because it is getting more and more
powful in
win10, and can do a few things that high-end screen readers cannot
do.
Think that you have three screen readerrs, Narrator, NVDA, and
JAWS
or
Window eyes that you can use in demo mode.

David Moore

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>
for
Windows 10



*From: *David <trailerdavid@...>
*Sent: *Monday, December 5, 2016 3:12 PM
*To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject: *Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease



Just for your correction.





You said you do NOT have any other screen reader to test? I do

understand what you mean, but it is not fully and completely true.





ALL, and I mean ALL flavors of Windows - from at least XP and up -
holds

Microsoft's embedded screen reader, named NARRATOR. Though far
from

being a full-fledged screen reader, it many times can help you
out.
For

instance, due to its very basic functionality, it at least could
give

you some idea to what extend a piece of software is accessible at
all.

If NARRATOR cannot help you out, then chances are that the
software
at

the minimum requires some more advanced features of the screen
reader.





I do, and have don so in other settings, on a general basis
encourage

all: If your high-end screen reader cannot do what you want, give

Narrator a go. Then com back and report your findings.





Might sound a bit awkward at first glance. But sometimes the
high-end

screen readers might have settings, that complicates the usage of
a

software. Running Narrator, finding that things work, you might be
able

to start tracing why the high-end screen reader does not do what
you
expect.





Furthermore, most - if not all - of the high-end screen readers,
do
have

downloadable demo-versions. Might be an idea, to download and
install at

least one such demo, and use it for cases when you want to
determine if

NVDA is the bottleneck of your issue. Far as I know, they all
provide

you fully working products, with an up-time of anything from 30 to
60

minutes; Enough time to get an idea of whether your third-party
software

is workable or not.





In the older days, installing more than one screen reader,
sometimes

caused system trouble. To the best of my knowledge, such is NOT
the
case

any longer, and have not been for a decade or so. In other words,

encouraged are everyone, to go get yourself at least one backup
screen

reader, if nothing else go for a demo. It further might help the
tech

team of NVDA getting to the core of your problem, if you can
describe

what is taken place when running an alternative screen reader.





How do you know, if you prefer McDonald burgers, if you never
tasted

anything but Burger-King?





David







On 12/5/2016 5:22 PM, nasrin khaksar wrote:

gene.
thanks so much for helping me to test the program.
i dont have any screen reader except nvda to test.
me too, use windows xp service pack 3
you dont need to use nvda cursors to intract with potplayer
menus.
you should only press the application keys and you can access to
all
menus and options by normal arrow keys.
only nvda freezes and says nothing in the windows except
unknown.
i should restart nvda to work as normal.
On 12/5/16, Brian Vogel <@britechguy> wrote:
Well, this thread has taken an interesting turn that I hadn't
ever
anticipated (and, to quote Seinfeld, "not that there's anything
wrong
with

that.")
So I'll use this to get back on my soapbox about when anyone
encounters an

issue with any software or combination of software:
* if you cannot give steps necessary to replicate the problem
there's

virtually no hope that the problem can or will be solved
* if you can give steps necessary to replicate the problem, but
others

running the same operating system and similar overall
configuration
that you

are don't have it when they perform those steps, this suggests
an
idiosyncratic problem with your own system
I cannot count the number of times when I've spent hours on a
given
problem

only to find out that it was a weird interaction between two
programs
that

are installed, that a system has not been updated and old DLL
files >> are

being called that have errors that have long ago been fixed,
etc.
I'm not saying that anyone is directly "at fault" for anything,
but
these

are factors that you must consider and there will be occasions
when
"it's

just you" as well as many more when it's "not just you."
Having
a
detective's mindset is essential in instances such as this.
--
*Brian*
*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is
complete.
If

you’re alive, it isn’t.*
~ Lauren Bacall









--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306 <%2B61%207%203149%203306>
Direct: +61 413 904 383 <+61%20413%20904%20383>
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess




.







--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306
Direct: +61 413 904 383
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess

--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org




--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org
--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org

 

please dont stop supporting of windows xp.
nvda is extremely great, even with continuation of supporting of all
operating systems that i love and also my softwares.
quentin, i decided to migrate to linux, but i only love nvda, my
current programs and cant learn new operating system and command lines
when installing softwares.
and one people replied that even i cant use nvda via vine on linux and
via vine, i cant use my windows programs because they are not
accessible even with using orca.

On 12/6/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
hi joseph.
yes, i use windows xp and i heard that .UIA is not supported on xp.
i did not change an important option for accessibility.


hi david.
my windows has problem and i dont know the reason.
but i should say that my windows has not narrator at all!
i tested this and and i am sure that i dont have narrator to test!
moreover, microsoft sam is not understandable for me and i cant
recognize what he says and what message does he read!
and also for me, i could not install another screen reader beside
nvda, because my system faces hangs, crashes and for me in my system,
screen readers are not compatible with each other.
you mentioned that having more than one screen reader does not cause
trouble, but for me it causes!


hi gene.
i tested many versions of potplayer and the result of testing all
versions, was crash of nvda since version 2015.4
so, its a regression in nvda 2015.4, because in 2015.3 i did not face
such problem.
yes. the current stable version of potplayer as you and quentin
mentioned, is 1.6.63856
but as i said i tried different versions and could not solve the issue
myself.
also, i did not change any settings in potplayer including: skins,
visual appearance, and its other settings.
vlc is not accessible for me, not has great quality and needs powerful
system.
i tried it and the result was only system resources consumption and
crashes of the program for me!
and the only satisfactory program for me is potplayer.
i found this in many month research, many program tested and going to
the many websites.
also, thanks so much for your link.
i joined this and repeated my problem.
the problem for me is only crashing of nvda, not potplayer!


hi quentin.
thanks extremely for your kindness.
i dont think that my problem is related to specific version of windows
and also specific version of potplayer.
i am sure there is one problem with nvda and potplayer which is
regression from nvda 2015.4 and later versions.

On 12/6/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
hi jacob.
thanks so much for helping me.

can you please test many files with potplayer?
eventually for me nvda is not responding and i dont know how to solve
this problem.

On 12/6/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
hi david and quentin.
i use xp and also i do all of my works with it.
i use internet, libreoffice, notepad, potplayer and one conversion
software.
i dont have the security programs because realy i dont trust them!

On 12/6/16, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:
You're more of an expert on what works under XP than me Brian, that's
great
info!

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 8:18 PM, Brian's Mail list account <
bglists@...> wrote:

Well, as far as I am aware, the basic plan is to not break XP if it is
at
all possible, but just occasionally this might not be possible as the
windows code changes.
Indeed at the moment xp portable versions of even the next snapshots
are
very good. Try running portable copies of nvda on, say windows 10 and
you
will find lots of things that no longer work due to the security of
that
operating system not allowing access to parts of windows from a
portable
app.
the big problem at present for those using XP is the web browser.
Depending on your processor, 50 is the last version I can get to work
on
xp
with intel processors, and 48 is the last one on xp with amd
processors.
This is due to the lack of sse2 instruction set support on the amd
chips.
Dropbox, no matter what Dropbox say, is working fine again on xp intel
processors at version 15, though they do warn that this could change
as
its officially not supported. AMD chips last working version of
Dropbox
is
13, and one has to disable updates by nefarious means to keep it
working
on
such hardware.

The hack to continue to get xp updates is still working for MSSE, but
his
month no xp security updates came down. whether this means they have
blocked the loophole or just they have given up I cannot say.
I notice that Flash for IE8 is seemingly not being updated by Adobe,
but
seems to be working in Firefox 50 at the moment.
Adobe reader DC is not usable on XP and 11 is the last version.

I'm sure there are many other issues but that really depends on what
you
are doing.
Its gratifying to note that the hacked copy of Outlook express that
works
in 10 is still supported by nvda, and its only issue is that its
preview
pane has to be turned off or it will fall over sometimes.


Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "David" <trailerdavid@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 8:31 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release,
and
thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease


Is XP REALLY not being supported any longer?


Could be. But I did read an article - think it is about a year ago -
where it was stated that Microsoft continue to support XP for
businesses, of course not free of charge. Cannot speak for the
validity
of the article, and do not know if I even bookmarked it either.


A whole other thing to keep in mind, is this:

Do you have an XP machine, and only connect it to the net to update
your
security software, you might still be able to use it offline for a
long
time yet. And if you only update the database of your security
software,
that software will keep rolling under XP for who knows how long.


From what I can see, several users still use XP. Even for those of us
who happen to have made the step forward, to some newer flavor of
Windows, many of us still keep XP machines hanging around.
Personally,
I
do join the ones who have an XP machine, simply because I have
software
that is needed for certain tasks, which would not impose a security
risk, but which cannot be run under newer Windows. That is, my XP
machine is not going online, but I still need a screen reader for it.
And, as the commercial screen readers tend to stop supporting an OS,
whenever Microsoft does, I am happy to learn that NVDA apparently
continues to run under XP. Hopefully, that will leave many of us the
chance to continue using our older equipment, for tasks that totally
well could be run on an offline, XP system.


Seemingly too, there will be many places in the world, where they
still
commonly use XP. Not everyone could afford the upgrade of the OS, and
basically there might not be too much more holes in XP, than in any
newer flavors of Windows. According to what I read, both Win8 and 10,
seem to have open holes. Some even are well known, but for whatever
reason are not being cared for. And many times, the biggest holes are
not in your OS itself, but more in the communication between you and
the
Internet. Such net related holes, might be independent on which OS
you
are running.


Just some thoughts to keep in mind, when advicing.

David

On 12/6/2016 6:49 AM, Shaun Everiss wrote:

Xp is dead, it will probably stay in core for a while but to be
honest
microsoft has deemed it unsupported so its crap os now and any
computer with it will have malware and be crappy to because
microsoft
says so and I really don't aggree with microsoft but its the way it
is.
Xp like win98 and other good versions of windows is history, soon 7
will be then we will have to struggle with 10.



On 6/12/2016 3:10 p.m., Michael Capelle wrote:

please, do not get rid of xp support.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Quentin Christensen"
<quentin@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease


That's true Gene. I had a thought in mind about Windows XP as
well,
although when I looked back at Nasrin's original question re
Potplayer, it
was using Windows 7 - although there are multiple versions of
Windows
7 as
well (for the record, I have Windows 7 home premium, SP1 64 bit).

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 11:18 AM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

And, of course, you aren't testing with XP. That may be the cause
of
these problems.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Quentin Christensen <quentin@...>
*Sent:* Monday, December 05, 2016 6:08 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

Hi everyone,

I downloaded the version that Nasrin linked to, which was the same
one
Gene tried - version 1.6.6385619.7.

It doesn't have a traditional alt menu and you also can't tab
around
the
main screen to read the information which is displayed visually.
However,
you can get to the commands via the applications key, and there
are
keystrokes for most things, once you know what they are.

I tried it on both Windows 10 and Windows 7, and found that I
could
play
MP3 files with it, pause and play again, and alt+f4 to close when
I
finished listening to a couple of songs, and everything seems
fine?
I'm
using NVDA 2016.4rc1 Actually I just realised I still had 2016.3
on
the
Windows 7 machine so I've gone back and tried with 2016.4rc1 and
again, I
couldn't reproduce the crash, even after listening to a few songs.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 9:11 AM, David Moore
<jesusloves1966@...>
wrote:

Hi, That is true,

Narrator, in win10 anniversary update, has enabled me to access
controls
that I could not access with JAWS or NVDA. I highly recommend
that
one
learn how to use Narrator, because it is getting more and more
powful in
win10, and can do a few things that high-end screen readers
cannot
do.
Think that you have three screen readerrs, Narrator, NVDA, and
JAWS
or
Window eyes that you can use in demo mode.

David Moore

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>
for
Windows 10



*From: *David <trailerdavid@...>
*Sent: *Monday, December 5, 2016 3:12 PM
*To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject: *Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease



Just for your correction.





You said you do NOT have any other screen reader to test? I do

understand what you mean, but it is not fully and completely
true.





ALL, and I mean ALL flavors of Windows - from at least XP and up
-
holds

Microsoft's embedded screen reader, named NARRATOR. Though far
from

being a full-fledged screen reader, it many times can help you
out.
For

instance, due to its very basic functionality, it at least could
give

you some idea to what extend a piece of software is accessible at
all.

If NARRATOR cannot help you out, then chances are that the
software
at

the minimum requires some more advanced features of the screen
reader.





I do, and have don so in other settings, on a general basis
encourage

all: If your high-end screen reader cannot do what you want, give

Narrator a go. Then com back and report your findings.





Might sound a bit awkward at first glance. But sometimes the
high-end

screen readers might have settings, that complicates the usage of
a

software. Running Narrator, finding that things work, you might
be
able

to start tracing why the high-end screen reader does not do what
you
expect.





Furthermore, most - if not all - of the high-end screen readers,
do
have

downloadable demo-versions. Might be an idea, to download and
install at

least one such demo, and use it for cases when you want to
determine if

NVDA is the bottleneck of your issue. Far as I know, they all
provide

you fully working products, with an up-time of anything from 30
to
60

minutes; Enough time to get an idea of whether your third-party
software

is workable or not.





In the older days, installing more than one screen reader,
sometimes

caused system trouble. To the best of my knowledge, such is NOT
the
case

any longer, and have not been for a decade or so. In other words,

encouraged are everyone, to go get yourself at least one backup
screen

reader, if nothing else go for a demo. It further might help the
tech

team of NVDA getting to the core of your problem, if you can
describe

what is taken place when running an alternative screen reader.





How do you know, if you prefer McDonald burgers, if you never
tasted

anything but Burger-King?





David







On 12/5/2016 5:22 PM, nasrin khaksar wrote:

gene.
thanks so much for helping me to test the program.
i dont have any screen reader except nvda to test.
me too, use windows xp service pack 3
you dont need to use nvda cursors to intract with potplayer
menus.
you should only press the application keys and you can access
to
all
menus and options by normal arrow keys.
only nvda freezes and says nothing in the windows except
unknown.
i should restart nvda to work as normal.
On 12/5/16, Brian Vogel <@britechguy> wrote:
Well, this thread has taken an interesting turn that I hadn't
ever
anticipated (and, to quote Seinfeld, "not that there's
anything
wrong
with

that.")
So I'll use this to get back on my soapbox about when anyone
encounters an

issue with any software or combination of software:
* if you cannot give steps necessary to replicate the problem
there's

virtually no hope that the problem can or will be solved
* if you can give steps necessary to replicate the problem,
but
others

running the same operating system and similar overall
configuration
that you

are don't have it when they perform those steps, this suggests
an
idiosyncratic problem with your own system
I cannot count the number of times when I've spent hours on a
given
problem

only to find out that it was a weird interaction between two
programs
that

are installed, that a system has not been updated and old DLL
files >> are

being called that have errors that have long ago been fixed,
etc.
I'm not saying that anyone is directly "at fault" for
anything,
but
these

are factors that you must consider and there will be occasions
when
"it's

just you" as well as many more when it's "not just you."
Having
a
detective's mindset is essential in instances such as this.
--
*Brian*
*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is
complete.
If

you’re alive, it isn’t.*
~ Lauren Bacall









--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306 <%2B61%207%203149%203306>
Direct: +61 413 904 383 <+61%20413%20904%20383>
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess




.







--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306
Direct: +61 413 904 383
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess

--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org




--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org

--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org



--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org

Gene
 

So you have the worst of both worlds.  XP, which is less secure, and no security programs, which anyone should have regardless of the version of Windows being used.  I'm not giving you a hard time but you have a very incorrect view of security programs, I should say of the reputable ones.  Knowledgeable list members will tell you that such programs are safe if you use reputable ones. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 6:06 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release, and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

hi david and quentin.
i use xp and also i do all of my works with it.
i use internet, libreoffice, notepad, potplayer and one conversion software.
i dont have the security programs because realy i dont trust them!

On 12/6/16, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:
> You're more of an expert on what works under XP than me Brian, that's great
> info!
>
> On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 8:18 PM, Brian's Mail list account <
> bglists@...> wrote:
>
>> Well, as far as I am aware, the basic plan is to not break XP if it is at
>> all possible, but just occasionally this might not be possible as the
>> windows code changes.
>> Indeed at the moment xp portable versions of even the next snapshots are
>> very good. Try running portable copies of nvda on, say windows 10 and you
>> will find lots of things that no longer work due to the  security of that
>> operating system not allowing access to parts of windows from a portable
>> app.
>> the big problem at present for those using XP is  the web browser.
>> Depending on your processor, 50 is the last version I can get to work on
>> xp
>> with intel processors, and 48 is the last one on xp with amd processors.
>> This is due to the lack of sse2  instruction set support on the amd
>> chips.
>> Dropbox, no matter what Dropbox say, is working fine again on xp intel
>> processors at version 15,  though they do warn that this could change as
>> its officially not supported. AMD chips last working version of Dropbox
>> is
>> 13, and one has to disable updates by nefarious means to keep it working
>> on
>> such hardware.
>>
>> The hack to continue to get xp updates is still working for MSSE, but his
>> month no xp security updates came down. whether this means they have
>> blocked the loophole or just they have given up I cannot say.
>> I notice that Flash for IE8 is seemingly not being updated by Adobe, but
>> seems to be working in Firefox 50 at the moment.
>> Adobe reader DC is not usable on XP and 11 is the last version.
>>
>> I'm sure there are many other issues but that really depends on what you
>> are doing.
>> Its gratifying to note that the hacked copy of Outlook express that works
>> in 10 is still supported by nvda, and its only issue is that its preview
>> pane has to be turned off or it will fall over sometimes.
>>
>>
>> Brian
>>
>> bglists@...
>> Sent via blueyonder.
>> Please address personal email to:-
>> briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
>> in the display name field.
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David" <trailerdavid@...>
>> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 8:31 AM
>>
>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release,
>> and
>> thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease
>>
>>
>> Is XP REALLY not being supported any longer?
>>>
>>>
>>> Could be. But I did read an article - think it is about a year ago -
>>> where it was stated that Microsoft continue to support XP for
>>> businesses, of course not free of charge. Cannot speak for the validity
>>> of the article, and do not know if I even bookmarked it either.
>>>
>>>
>>> A whole other thing to keep in mind, is this:
>>>
>>> Do you have an XP machine, and only connect it to the net to update your
>>> security software, you might still be able to use it offline for a long
>>> time yet. And if you only update the database of your security software,
>>> that software will keep rolling under XP for who knows how long.
>>>
>>>
>>> From what I can see, several users still use XP. Even for those of us
>>> who happen to have made the step forward, to some newer flavor of
>>> Windows, many of us still keep XP machines hanging around. Personally, I
>>> do join the ones who have an XP machine, simply because I have software
>>> that is needed for certain tasks, which would not impose a security
>>> risk, but which cannot be run under newer Windows. That is, my XP
>>> machine is not going online, but I still need a screen reader for it.
>>> And, as the commercial screen readers tend to stop supporting an OS,
>>> whenever Microsoft does, I am happy to learn that NVDA apparently
>>> continues to run under XP. Hopefully, that will leave many of us the
>>> chance to continue using our older equipment, for tasks that totally
>>> well could be run on an offline, XP system.
>>>
>>>
>>> Seemingly too, there will be many places in the world, where they still
>>> commonly use XP. Not everyone could afford the upgrade of the OS, and
>>> basically there might not be too much more holes in XP, than in any
>>> newer flavors of Windows. According to what I read, both Win8 and 10,
>>> seem to have open holes. Some even are well known, but for whatever
>>> reason are not being cared for. And many times, the biggest holes are
>>> not in your OS itself, but more in the communication between you and the
>>> Internet. Such net related holes, might be independent on which OS you
>>> are running.
>>>
>>>
>>> Just some thoughts to keep in mind, when advicing.
>>>
>>> David
>>>
>>> On 12/6/2016 6:49 AM, Shaun Everiss wrote:
>>>
>>>> Xp is dead, it will probably stay in core for a while but to be honest
>>>> microsoft has deemed it unsupported so its crap os now and any
>>>> computer with it will have malware and be crappy to because microsoft
>>>> says so and I really don't aggree with microsoft but its the way it is.
>>>> Xp like win98 and other good versions of windows is history, soon 7
>>>> will be then we will have to struggle with 10.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 6/12/2016 3:10 p.m., Michael Capelle wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> please, do not get rid of xp support.
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Quentin Christensen"
>>>>> <quentin@...>
>>>>> To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
>>>>> Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 6:36 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release,
>>>>> and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> That's true Gene.  I had a thought in mind about Windows XP as well,
>>>>> although when I looked back at Nasrin's original question re
>>>>> Potplayer, it
>>>>> was using Windows 7 - although there are multiple versions of Windows
>>>>> 7 as
>>>>> well (for the record, I have Windows 7 home premium, SP1 64 bit).
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 11:18 AM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> And, of course, you aren't testing with XP.  That may be the cause of
>>>>>> these problems.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Gene
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> *From:* Quentin Christensen <quentin@...>
>>>>>> *Sent:* Monday, December 05, 2016 6:08 PM
>>>>>> *To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
>>>>>> release,
>>>>>> and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I downloaded the version that Nasrin linked to, which was the same
>>>>>> one
>>>>>> Gene tried - version 1.6.6385619.7.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It doesn't have a traditional alt menu and you also can't tab around
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> main screen to read the information which is displayed visually.
>>>>>> However,
>>>>>> you can get to the commands via the applications key, and there are
>>>>>> keystrokes for most things, once you know what they are.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I tried it on both Windows 10 and Windows 7, and found that I could
>>>>>> play
>>>>>> MP3 files with it, pause and play again, and alt+f4 to close when I
>>>>>> finished listening to a couple of songs, and everything seems fine?
>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>> using NVDA 2016.4rc1  Actually I just realised I still had 2016.3 on
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> Windows 7 machine so I've gone back and tried with 2016.4rc1 and
>>>>>> again, I
>>>>>> couldn't reproduce the crash, even after listening to a few songs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Kind regards
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Quentin.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 9:11 AM, David Moore
>>>>>> <jesusloves1966@...>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi, That is true,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Narrator, in win10 anniversary update, has enabled me to access
>>>>>>> controls
>>>>>>> that I could not access with JAWS or NVDA. I highly recommend that
>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>> learn how to use Narrator, because it is getting more and more
>>>>>>> powful in
>>>>>>> win10, and can do a few things that high-end screen readers cannot
>>>>>>> do.
>>>>>>> Think that you have three screen readerrs, Narrator, NVDA, and JAWS
>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>> Window eyes that you can use in demo mode.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> David Moore
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>>>>>>> Windows 10
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *From: *David <trailerdavid@...>
>>>>>>> *Sent: *Monday, December 5, 2016 3:12 PM
>>>>>>> *To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io
>>>>>>> *Subject: *Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
>>>>>>> release,
>>>>>>> and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just for your correction.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You said you do NOT have any other screen reader to test? I do
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> understand what you mean, but it is not fully and completely true.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ALL, and I mean ALL flavors of Windows - from at least XP and up -
>>>>>>> holds
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Microsoft's embedded screen reader, named NARRATOR. Though far from
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> being a full-fledged screen reader, it many times can help you out.
>>>>>>> For
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> instance, due to its very basic functionality, it at least could
>>>>>>> give
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> you some idea to what extend a piece of software is accessible at
>>>>>>> all.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If NARRATOR cannot help you out, then chances are that the software
>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> the minimum requires some more advanced features of the screen
>>>>>>> reader.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I do, and have don so in other settings, on a general basis
>>>>>>> encourage
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> all: If your high-end screen reader cannot do what you want, give
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Narrator a go. Then com back and report your findings.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Might sound a bit awkward at first glance. But sometimes the
>>>>>>> high-end
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> screen readers might have settings, that complicates the usage of a
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> software. Running Narrator, finding that things work, you might be
>>>>>>> able
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> to start tracing why the high-end screen reader does not do what you
>>>>>>> expect.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Furthermore, most - if not all - of the high-end screen readers, do
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> downloadable demo-versions. Might be an idea, to download and
>>>>>>> install at
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> least one such demo, and use it for cases when you want to
>>>>>>> determine if
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> NVDA is the bottleneck of your issue. Far as I know, they all
>>>>>>> provide
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> you fully working products, with an up-time of anything from 30 to
>>>>>>> 60
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> minutes; Enough time to get an idea of whether your third-party
>>>>>>> software
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> is workable or not.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In the older days, installing more than one screen reader, sometimes
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> caused system trouble. To the best of my knowledge, such is NOT the
>>>>>>> case
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> any longer, and have not been for a decade or so. In other words,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> encouraged are everyone, to go get yourself at least one backup
>>>>>>> screen
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> reader, if nothing else go for a demo. It further might help the
>>>>>>> tech
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> team of NVDA getting to the core of your problem, if you can
>>>>>>> describe
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> what is taken place when running an alternative screen reader.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> How do you know, if you prefer McDonald burgers, if you never tasted
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> anything but Burger-King?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> David
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 12/5/2016 5:22 PM, nasrin khaksar wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> > gene.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> > thanks so much for helping me to test the program.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> > i dont have any screen reader except nvda to test.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> > me too, use windows xp service pack 3
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> > you dont need to use nvda cursors to intract with potplayer menus.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> > you should only press the application keys and you can access to
>>>>>>> > all
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> > menus and options by normal arrow keys.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> > only nvda freezes and says nothing in the windows except unknown.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> > i should restart nvda to work as normal.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> > On 12/5/16, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >> Well, this thread has taken an interesting turn that I hadn't
>>>>>>> >> ever
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >> anticipated (and, to quote Seinfeld, "not that there's anything
>>>>>>> wrong
>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >> that.")
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >> So I'll use this to get back on my soapbox about when anyone
>>>>>>> encounters an
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >> issue with any software or combination of software:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >> * if you cannot give steps necessary to replicate the problem
>>>>>>> there's
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >> virtually no hope that the problem can or will be solved
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >> * if you can give steps necessary to replicate the problem, but
>>>>>>> others
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >> running the same operating system and similar overall
>>>>>>> >> configuration
>>>>>>> that you
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >> are don't have it when they perform those steps, this suggests an
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >> idiosyncratic problem with your own system
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >> I cannot count the number of times when I've spent hours on a
>>>>>>> >> given
>>>>>>> problem
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >> only to find out that it was a weird interaction between two
>>>>>>> programs
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >> are installed, that a system has not been updated and old DLL
>>>>>>> files >> are
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >> being called that have errors that have long ago been fixed, etc.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >> I'm not saying that anyone is directly "at fault" for anything,
>>>>>>> >> but
>>>>>>> these
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >> are factors that you must consider and there will be occasions
>>>>>>> >> when
>>>>>>> "it's
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >> just you" as well as many more when it's "not just you."  Having
>>>>>>> >> a
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >> detective's mindset is essential in instances such as this.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >> --
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >> *Brian*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >> *Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is
>>>>>>> complete.
>>>>>>> If
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >> you’re alive, it isn’t.*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>     ~ Lauren Bacall
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Quentin Christensen
>>>>>> Training Material Developer
>>>>>> Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
>>>>>> available:
>>>>>> http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ph +61 7 3149 3306 <%2B61%207%203149%203306>
>>>>>> Direct: +61 413 904 383 <+61%20413%20904%20383>
>>>>>> www.nvaccess.org
>>>>>> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
>>>>>> Twitter: @NVAccess
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> .
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Quentin Christensen
> Training Material Developer
> Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available:
> http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
>
> Ph +61 7 3149 3306
> Direct: +61 413 904 383
> www.nvaccess.org
> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
> Twitter: @NVAccess
>


--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org



David <trailerdavid@...>
 

If you have a TRUE and complete installation of XP, you definitely
should have Narrator.


Press the Win-R combo, and type in

narrator

and hit Enter. A screen should come up, and from memory, it seems to me
you have to do a setting or two, the first time you run Narrator, so as
to have it automatically load when it is called.


If your system does not respond at all, when you call Narrator, then
your system is rather sure to have a modified installation, something
broken on the disk, or some other sort of serious trouble. A complete
reinstall might be considered.


And, Please note, if you scroll the menus of XP, you will NOT see
Narrator listed. If you do a disk search, I am ready to think it will
not come up as a choice either. That is why, I several times the last
few days, have informed through different messages here on the list,
that you need to start the Narrator manually. Unless you do it that way,
I am not aware of any water-proofed way under XP, to start Narrator. I
do know there was a hotkey that was told to do the starting of Narrator,
but none of my XP versions did honor that hotkey. So again, open the run
dialog, by hitting Win-R, and type Narrator, confirm with Enter.


When you have tested, come back with your results.


From your description, of the many issues you have, I would strongly
recommend you do a scan with some sort of security software, or do a
system cleanup with something like CCleaner, which should be OK
accessible with NVDA. Very likely your system might be loaded down with
some bugs. And most definitely so, if you have never done such system care.


And, just for the records, all you who thinks this is due to an XP user;
the big news is that the very same conclusion would have been reached,
no matter which flavor of Windows you run - new or obsolete. Smiles.


If you do decide NOT to heed any of the encouragements to do a system
scan and cleanup, sure thing it is up to you. But noone will be able to
solve an issue of yours, should it all be due to you refusing doing any
such care-taking of your system. Then you will only load the list with
numerous issues, cause everyone to try helping you out, spending time on
testing, imagining what could be wrong, type in many handfuls of
messages to you; all in vain. Long as the bug sits on your computer, and
you refuse to find it with the tools available (even for free), that is
a choice of yours, and I will respect that.


But as I have clearly stated here, if you do not have a basic feature of
Windows, like Narrator, your system sounds to me to be hacked in some
way. Not saying that is do to you doing something wron, except from
refusing to cleanup, but it could be a former owner of the computer that
has meddled and tricked the whole system.



I do not want to sound harsh here, so please take all of this as
friendly reminders. You hopefully will find the root of the issues of
yours, but you likely will have to take the necessary steps to do so.
This reminder stands, not for you alone, but for the WHOLE community. Do
you want help, then take the help you can get, or at least make sure you
know the consequences of your choices.


Hope someone can help you.

David

On 12/6/2016 1:20 PM, nasrin khaksar wrote:
hi joseph.
yes, i use windows xp and i heard that .UIA is not supported on xp.
i did not change an important option for accessibility.


hi david.
my windows has problem and i dont know the reason.
but i should say that my windows has not narrator at all!
i tested this and and i am sure that i dont have narrator to test!
moreover, microsoft sam is not understandable for me and i cant
recognize what he says and what message does he read!
and also for me, i could not install another screen reader beside
nvda, because my system faces hangs, crashes and for me in my system,
screen readers are not compatible with each other.
you mentioned that having more than one screen reader does not cause
trouble, but for me it causes!


hi gene.
i tested many versions of potplayer and the result of testing all
versions, was crash of nvda since version 2015.4
so, its a regression in nvda 2015.4, because in 2015.3 i did not face
such problem.
yes. the current stable version of potplayer as you and quentin
mentioned, is 1.6.63856
but as i said i tried different versions and could not solve the issue myself.
also, i did not change any settings in potplayer including: skins,
visual appearance, and its other settings.
vlc is not accessible for me, not has great quality and needs powerful system.
i tried it and the result was only system resources consumption and
crashes of the program for me!
and the only satisfactory program for me is potplayer.
i found this in many month research, many program tested and going to
the many websites.
also, thanks so much for your link.
i joined this and repeated my problem.
the problem for me is only crashing of nvda, not potplayer!


hi quentin.
thanks extremely for your kindness.
i dont think that my problem is related to specific version of windows
and also specific version of potplayer.
i am sure there is one problem with nvda and potplayer which is
regression from nvda 2015.4 and later versions.

On 12/6/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
hi jacob.
thanks so much for helping me.

can you please test many files with potplayer?
eventually for me nvda is not responding and i dont know how to solve
this problem.

On 12/6/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
hi david and quentin.
i use xp and also i do all of my works with it.
i use internet, libreoffice, notepad, potplayer and one conversion
software.
i dont have the security programs because realy i dont trust them!

On 12/6/16, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:
You're more of an expert on what works under XP than me Brian, that's
great
info!

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 8:18 PM, Brian's Mail list account <
bglists@...> wrote:

Well, as far as I am aware, the basic plan is to not break XP if it is
at
all possible, but just occasionally this might not be possible as the
windows code changes.
Indeed at the moment xp portable versions of even the next snapshots
are
very good. Try running portable copies of nvda on, say windows 10 and
you
will find lots of things that no longer work due to the security of
that
operating system not allowing access to parts of windows from a
portable
app.
the big problem at present for those using XP is the web browser.
Depending on your processor, 50 is the last version I can get to work
on
xp
with intel processors, and 48 is the last one on xp with amd
processors.
This is due to the lack of sse2 instruction set support on the amd
chips.
Dropbox, no matter what Dropbox say, is working fine again on xp intel
processors at version 15, though they do warn that this could change
as
its officially not supported. AMD chips last working version of Dropbox
is
13, and one has to disable updates by nefarious means to keep it
working
on
such hardware.

The hack to continue to get xp updates is still working for MSSE, but
his
month no xp security updates came down. whether this means they have
blocked the loophole or just they have given up I cannot say.
I notice that Flash for IE8 is seemingly not being updated by Adobe,
but
seems to be working in Firefox 50 at the moment.
Adobe reader DC is not usable on XP and 11 is the last version.

I'm sure there are many other issues but that really depends on what
you
are doing.
Its gratifying to note that the hacked copy of Outlook express that
works
in 10 is still supported by nvda, and its only issue is that its
preview
pane has to be turned off or it will fall over sometimes.


Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "David" <trailerdavid@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 8:31 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release,
and
thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease


Is XP REALLY not being supported any longer?

Could be. But I did read an article - think it is about a year ago -
where it was stated that Microsoft continue to support XP for
businesses, of course not free of charge. Cannot speak for the
validity
of the article, and do not know if I even bookmarked it either.


A whole other thing to keep in mind, is this:

Do you have an XP machine, and only connect it to the net to update
your
security software, you might still be able to use it offline for a
long
time yet. And if you only update the database of your security
software,
that software will keep rolling under XP for who knows how long.


From what I can see, several users still use XP. Even for those of us
who happen to have made the step forward, to some newer flavor of
Windows, many of us still keep XP machines hanging around. Personally,
I
do join the ones who have an XP machine, simply because I have
software
that is needed for certain tasks, which would not impose a security
risk, but which cannot be run under newer Windows. That is, my XP
machine is not going online, but I still need a screen reader for it.
And, as the commercial screen readers tend to stop supporting an OS,
whenever Microsoft does, I am happy to learn that NVDA apparently
continues to run under XP. Hopefully, that will leave many of us the
chance to continue using our older equipment, for tasks that totally
well could be run on an offline, XP system.


Seemingly too, there will be many places in the world, where they
still
commonly use XP. Not everyone could afford the upgrade of the OS, and
basically there might not be too much more holes in XP, than in any
newer flavors of Windows. According to what I read, both Win8 and 10,
seem to have open holes. Some even are well known, but for whatever
reason are not being cared for. And many times, the biggest holes are
not in your OS itself, but more in the communication between you and
the
Internet. Such net related holes, might be independent on which OS you
are running.


Just some thoughts to keep in mind, when advicing.

David

On 12/6/2016 6:49 AM, Shaun Everiss wrote:

Xp is dead, it will probably stay in core for a while but to be
honest
microsoft has deemed it unsupported so its crap os now and any
computer with it will have malware and be crappy to because microsoft
says so and I really don't aggree with microsoft but its the way it
is.
Xp like win98 and other good versions of windows is history, soon 7
will be then we will have to struggle with 10.



On 6/12/2016 3:10 p.m., Michael Capelle wrote:

please, do not get rid of xp support.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Quentin Christensen"
<quentin@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease


That's true Gene. I had a thought in mind about Windows XP as well,
although when I looked back at Nasrin's original question re
Potplayer, it
was using Windows 7 - although there are multiple versions of
Windows
7 as
well (for the record, I have Windows 7 home premium, SP1 64 bit).

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 11:18 AM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

And, of course, you aren't testing with XP. That may be the cause
of
these problems.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Quentin Christensen <quentin@...>
*Sent:* Monday, December 05, 2016 6:08 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

Hi everyone,

I downloaded the version that Nasrin linked to, which was the same
one
Gene tried - version 1.6.6385619.7.

It doesn't have a traditional alt menu and you also can't tab
around
the
main screen to read the information which is displayed visually.
However,
you can get to the commands via the applications key, and there are
keystrokes for most things, once you know what they are.

I tried it on both Windows 10 and Windows 7, and found that I could
play
MP3 files with it, pause and play again, and alt+f4 to close when I
finished listening to a couple of songs, and everything seems fine?
I'm
using NVDA 2016.4rc1 Actually I just realised I still had 2016.3
on
the
Windows 7 machine so I've gone back and tried with 2016.4rc1 and
again, I
couldn't reproduce the crash, even after listening to a few songs.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 9:11 AM, David Moore
<jesusloves1966@...>
wrote:

Hi, That is true,
Narrator, in win10 anniversary update, has enabled me to access
controls
that I could not access with JAWS or NVDA. I highly recommend that
one
learn how to use Narrator, because it is getting more and more
powful in
win10, and can do a few things that high-end screen readers cannot
do.
Think that you have three screen readerrs, Narrator, NVDA, and
JAWS
or
Window eyes that you can use in demo mode.

David Moore

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>
for
Windows 10



*From: *David <trailerdavid@...>
*Sent: *Monday, December 5, 2016 3:12 PM
*To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject: *Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease



Just for your correction.





You said you do NOT have any other screen reader to test? I do

understand what you mean, but it is not fully and completely true.





ALL, and I mean ALL flavors of Windows - from at least XP and up -
holds

Microsoft's embedded screen reader, named NARRATOR. Though far
from

being a full-fledged screen reader, it many times can help you
out.
For

instance, due to its very basic functionality, it at least could
give

you some idea to what extend a piece of software is accessible at
all.

If NARRATOR cannot help you out, then chances are that the
software
at

the minimum requires some more advanced features of the screen
reader.





I do, and have don so in other settings, on a general basis
encourage

all: If your high-end screen reader cannot do what you want, give

Narrator a go. Then com back and report your findings.





Might sound a bit awkward at first glance. But sometimes the
high-end

screen readers might have settings, that complicates the usage of
a

software. Running Narrator, finding that things work, you might be
able

to start tracing why the high-end screen reader does not do what
you
expect.





Furthermore, most - if not all - of the high-end screen readers,
do
have

downloadable demo-versions. Might be an idea, to download and
install at

least one such demo, and use it for cases when you want to
determine if

NVDA is the bottleneck of your issue. Far as I know, they all
provide

you fully working products, with an up-time of anything from 30 to
60

minutes; Enough time to get an idea of whether your third-party
software

is workable or not.





In the older days, installing more than one screen reader,
sometimes

caused system trouble. To the best of my knowledge, such is NOT
the
case

any longer, and have not been for a decade or so. In other words,

encouraged are everyone, to go get yourself at least one backup
screen

reader, if nothing else go for a demo. It further might help the
tech

team of NVDA getting to the core of your problem, if you can
describe

what is taken place when running an alternative screen reader.





How do you know, if you prefer McDonald burgers, if you never
tasted

anything but Burger-King?





David







On 12/5/2016 5:22 PM, nasrin khaksar wrote:

gene.
thanks so much for helping me to test the program.
i dont have any screen reader except nvda to test.
me too, use windows xp service pack 3
you dont need to use nvda cursors to intract with potplayer
menus.
you should only press the application keys and you can access to
all
menus and options by normal arrow keys.
only nvda freezes and says nothing in the windows except
unknown.
i should restart nvda to work as normal.
On 12/5/16, Brian Vogel <@britechguy> wrote:
Well, this thread has taken an interesting turn that I hadn't
ever
anticipated (and, to quote Seinfeld, "not that there's anything
wrong
with

that.")
So I'll use this to get back on my soapbox about when anyone
encounters an

issue with any software or combination of software:
* if you cannot give steps necessary to replicate the problem
there's

virtually no hope that the problem can or will be solved
* if you can give steps necessary to replicate the problem, but
others

running the same operating system and similar overall
configuration
that you

are don't have it when they perform those steps, this suggests
an
idiosyncratic problem with your own system
I cannot count the number of times when I've spent hours on a
given
problem

only to find out that it was a weird interaction between two
programs
that

are installed, that a system has not been updated and old DLL
files >> are

being called that have errors that have long ago been fixed,
etc.
I'm not saying that anyone is directly "at fault" for anything,
but
these

are factors that you must consider and there will be occasions
when
"it's

just you" as well as many more when it's "not just you."
Having
a
detective's mindset is essential in instances such as this.
--
*Brian*
*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is
complete.
If

you’re alive, it isn’t.*
~ Lauren Bacall








--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306 <%2B61%207%203149%203306>
Direct: +61 413 904 383 <+61%20413%20904%20383>
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess



.




--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306
Direct: +61 413 904 383
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess
--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org



--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org

David <trailerdavid@...>
 

What other screen reader have you tried to install and run, that caused
you trouble? Which version of that screen reader? When did you try it?


Give us some more facts, and maybe we can help you further, please.


David

On 12/6/2016 1:20 PM, nasrin khaksar wrote:
hi joseph.
yes, i use windows xp and i heard that .UIA is not supported on xp.
i did not change an important option for accessibility.


hi david.
my windows has problem and i dont know the reason.
but i should say that my windows has not narrator at all!
i tested this and and i am sure that i dont have narrator to test!
moreover, microsoft sam is not understandable for me and i cant
recognize what he says and what message does he read!
and also for me, i could not install another screen reader beside
nvda, because my system faces hangs, crashes and for me in my system,
screen readers are not compatible with each other.
you mentioned that having more than one screen reader does not cause
trouble, but for me it causes!


hi gene.
i tested many versions of potplayer and the result of testing all
versions, was crash of nvda since version 2015.4
so, its a regression in nvda 2015.4, because in 2015.3 i did not face
such problem.
yes. the current stable version of potplayer as you and quentin
mentioned, is 1.6.63856
but as i said i tried different versions and could not solve the issue myself.
also, i did not change any settings in potplayer including: skins,
visual appearance, and its other settings.
vlc is not accessible for me, not has great quality and needs powerful system.
i tried it and the result was only system resources consumption and
crashes of the program for me!
and the only satisfactory program for me is potplayer.
i found this in many month research, many program tested and going to
the many websites.
also, thanks so much for your link.
i joined this and repeated my problem.
the problem for me is only crashing of nvda, not potplayer!


hi quentin.
thanks extremely for your kindness.
i dont think that my problem is related to specific version of windows
and also specific version of potplayer.
i am sure there is one problem with nvda and potplayer which is
regression from nvda 2015.4 and later versions.

On 12/6/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
hi jacob.
thanks so much for helping me.

can you please test many files with potplayer?
eventually for me nvda is not responding and i dont know how to solve
this problem.

On 12/6/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
hi david and quentin.
i use xp and also i do all of my works with it.
i use internet, libreoffice, notepad, potplayer and one conversion
software.
i dont have the security programs because realy i dont trust them!

On 12/6/16, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:
You're more of an expert on what works under XP than me Brian, that's
great
info!

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 8:18 PM, Brian's Mail list account <
bglists@...> wrote:

Well, as far as I am aware, the basic plan is to not break XP if it is
at
all possible, but just occasionally this might not be possible as the
windows code changes.
Indeed at the moment xp portable versions of even the next snapshots
are
very good. Try running portable copies of nvda on, say windows 10 and
you
will find lots of things that no longer work due to the security of
that
operating system not allowing access to parts of windows from a
portable
app.
the big problem at present for those using XP is the web browser.
Depending on your processor, 50 is the last version I can get to work
on
xp
with intel processors, and 48 is the last one on xp with amd
processors.
This is due to the lack of sse2 instruction set support on the amd
chips.
Dropbox, no matter what Dropbox say, is working fine again on xp intel
processors at version 15, though they do warn that this could change
as
its officially not supported. AMD chips last working version of Dropbox
is
13, and one has to disable updates by nefarious means to keep it
working
on
such hardware.

The hack to continue to get xp updates is still working for MSSE, but
his
month no xp security updates came down. whether this means they have
blocked the loophole or just they have given up I cannot say.
I notice that Flash for IE8 is seemingly not being updated by Adobe,
but
seems to be working in Firefox 50 at the moment.
Adobe reader DC is not usable on XP and 11 is the last version.

I'm sure there are many other issues but that really depends on what
you
are doing.
Its gratifying to note that the hacked copy of Outlook express that
works
in 10 is still supported by nvda, and its only issue is that its
preview
pane has to be turned off or it will fall over sometimes.


Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "David" <trailerdavid@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 8:31 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release,
and
thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease


Is XP REALLY not being supported any longer?

Could be. But I did read an article - think it is about a year ago -
where it was stated that Microsoft continue to support XP for
businesses, of course not free of charge. Cannot speak for the
validity
of the article, and do not know if I even bookmarked it either.


A whole other thing to keep in mind, is this:

Do you have an XP machine, and only connect it to the net to update
your
security software, you might still be able to use it offline for a
long
time yet. And if you only update the database of your security
software,
that software will keep rolling under XP for who knows how long.


From what I can see, several users still use XP. Even for those of us
who happen to have made the step forward, to some newer flavor of
Windows, many of us still keep XP machines hanging around. Personally,
I
do join the ones who have an XP machine, simply because I have
software
that is needed for certain tasks, which would not impose a security
risk, but which cannot be run under newer Windows. That is, my XP
machine is not going online, but I still need a screen reader for it.
And, as the commercial screen readers tend to stop supporting an OS,
whenever Microsoft does, I am happy to learn that NVDA apparently
continues to run under XP. Hopefully, that will leave many of us the
chance to continue using our older equipment, for tasks that totally
well could be run on an offline, XP system.


Seemingly too, there will be many places in the world, where they
still
commonly use XP. Not everyone could afford the upgrade of the OS, and
basically there might not be too much more holes in XP, than in any
newer flavors of Windows. According to what I read, both Win8 and 10,
seem to have open holes. Some even are well known, but for whatever
reason are not being cared for. And many times, the biggest holes are
not in your OS itself, but more in the communication between you and
the
Internet. Such net related holes, might be independent on which OS you
are running.


Just some thoughts to keep in mind, when advicing.

David

On 12/6/2016 6:49 AM, Shaun Everiss wrote:

Xp is dead, it will probably stay in core for a while but to be
honest
microsoft has deemed it unsupported so its crap os now and any
computer with it will have malware and be crappy to because microsoft
says so and I really don't aggree with microsoft but its the way it
is.
Xp like win98 and other good versions of windows is history, soon 7
will be then we will have to struggle with 10.



On 6/12/2016 3:10 p.m., Michael Capelle wrote:

please, do not get rid of xp support.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Quentin Christensen"
<quentin@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease


That's true Gene. I had a thought in mind about Windows XP as well,
although when I looked back at Nasrin's original question re
Potplayer, it
was using Windows 7 - although there are multiple versions of
Windows
7 as
well (for the record, I have Windows 7 home premium, SP1 64 bit).

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 11:18 AM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

And, of course, you aren't testing with XP. That may be the cause
of
these problems.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Quentin Christensen <quentin@...>
*Sent:* Monday, December 05, 2016 6:08 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

Hi everyone,

I downloaded the version that Nasrin linked to, which was the same
one
Gene tried - version 1.6.6385619.7.

It doesn't have a traditional alt menu and you also can't tab
around
the
main screen to read the information which is displayed visually.
However,
you can get to the commands via the applications key, and there are
keystrokes for most things, once you know what they are.

I tried it on both Windows 10 and Windows 7, and found that I could
play
MP3 files with it, pause and play again, and alt+f4 to close when I
finished listening to a couple of songs, and everything seems fine?
I'm
using NVDA 2016.4rc1 Actually I just realised I still had 2016.3
on
the
Windows 7 machine so I've gone back and tried with 2016.4rc1 and
again, I
couldn't reproduce the crash, even after listening to a few songs.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 9:11 AM, David Moore
<jesusloves1966@...>
wrote:

Hi, That is true,
Narrator, in win10 anniversary update, has enabled me to access
controls
that I could not access with JAWS or NVDA. I highly recommend that
one
learn how to use Narrator, because it is getting more and more
powful in
win10, and can do a few things that high-end screen readers cannot
do.
Think that you have three screen readerrs, Narrator, NVDA, and
JAWS
or
Window eyes that you can use in demo mode.

David Moore

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>
for
Windows 10



*From: *David <trailerdavid@...>
*Sent: *Monday, December 5, 2016 3:12 PM
*To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject: *Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease



Just for your correction.





You said you do NOT have any other screen reader to test? I do

understand what you mean, but it is not fully and completely true.





ALL, and I mean ALL flavors of Windows - from at least XP and up -
holds

Microsoft's embedded screen reader, named NARRATOR. Though far
from

being a full-fledged screen reader, it many times can help you
out.
For

instance, due to its very basic functionality, it at least could
give

you some idea to what extend a piece of software is accessible at
all.

If NARRATOR cannot help you out, then chances are that the
software
at

the minimum requires some more advanced features of the screen
reader.





I do, and have don so in other settings, on a general basis
encourage

all: If your high-end screen reader cannot do what you want, give

Narrator a go. Then com back and report your findings.





Might sound a bit awkward at first glance. But sometimes the
high-end

screen readers might have settings, that complicates the usage of
a

software. Running Narrator, finding that things work, you might be
able

to start tracing why the high-end screen reader does not do what
you
expect.





Furthermore, most - if not all - of the high-end screen readers,
do
have

downloadable demo-versions. Might be an idea, to download and
install at

least one such demo, and use it for cases when you want to
determine if

NVDA is the bottleneck of your issue. Far as I know, they all
provide

you fully working products, with an up-time of anything from 30 to
60

minutes; Enough time to get an idea of whether your third-party
software

is workable or not.





In the older days, installing more than one screen reader,
sometimes

caused system trouble. To the best of my knowledge, such is NOT
the
case

any longer, and have not been for a decade or so. In other words,

encouraged are everyone, to go get yourself at least one backup
screen

reader, if nothing else go for a demo. It further might help the
tech

team of NVDA getting to the core of your problem, if you can
describe

what is taken place when running an alternative screen reader.





How do you know, if you prefer McDonald burgers, if you never
tasted

anything but Burger-King?





David







On 12/5/2016 5:22 PM, nasrin khaksar wrote:

gene.
thanks so much for helping me to test the program.
i dont have any screen reader except nvda to test.
me too, use windows xp service pack 3
you dont need to use nvda cursors to intract with potplayer
menus.
you should only press the application keys and you can access to
all
menus and options by normal arrow keys.
only nvda freezes and says nothing in the windows except
unknown.
i should restart nvda to work as normal.
On 12/5/16, Brian Vogel <@britechguy> wrote:
Well, this thread has taken an interesting turn that I hadn't
ever
anticipated (and, to quote Seinfeld, "not that there's anything
wrong
with

that.")
So I'll use this to get back on my soapbox about when anyone
encounters an

issue with any software or combination of software:
* if you cannot give steps necessary to replicate the problem
there's

virtually no hope that the problem can or will be solved
* if you can give steps necessary to replicate the problem, but
others

running the same operating system and similar overall
configuration
that you

are don't have it when they perform those steps, this suggests
an
idiosyncratic problem with your own system
I cannot count the number of times when I've spent hours on a
given
problem

only to find out that it was a weird interaction between two
programs
that

are installed, that a system has not been updated and old DLL
files >> are

being called that have errors that have long ago been fixed,
etc.
I'm not saying that anyone is directly "at fault" for anything,
but
these

are factors that you must consider and there will be occasions
when
"it's

just you" as well as many more when it's "not just you."
Having
a
detective's mindset is essential in instances such as this.
--
*Brian*
*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is
complete.
If

you’re alive, it isn’t.*
~ Lauren Bacall








--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306 <%2B61%207%203149%203306>
Direct: +61 413 904 383 <+61%20413%20904%20383>
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess



.




--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306
Direct: +61 413 904 383
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess
--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org



--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org

 

david,
i tested the demo version of jaws 11, 14 and 15 with nvda and the
result was crash and sometimes not responding nvda.
i took your advice and and recieve a message that i dont have narrator.
in the first time of installation of my windows, i tried openning
narrater via its shortcut and i did not have any voice.
i am sure that the narrator is not installed in my system.

On 12/6/16, David <trailerdavid@...> wrote:
What other screen reader have you tried to install and run, that caused
you trouble? Which version of that screen reader? When did you try it?


Give us some more facts, and maybe we can help you further, please.


David

On 12/6/2016 1:20 PM, nasrin khaksar wrote:
hi joseph.
yes, i use windows xp and i heard that .UIA is not supported on xp.
i did not change an important option for accessibility.


hi david.
my windows has problem and i dont know the reason.
but i should say that my windows has not narrator at all!
i tested this and and i am sure that i dont have narrator to test!
moreover, microsoft sam is not understandable for me and i cant
recognize what he says and what message does he read!
and also for me, i could not install another screen reader beside
nvda, because my system faces hangs, crashes and for me in my system,
screen readers are not compatible with each other.
you mentioned that having more than one screen reader does not cause
trouble, but for me it causes!


hi gene.
i tested many versions of potplayer and the result of testing all
versions, was crash of nvda since version 2015.4
so, its a regression in nvda 2015.4, because in 2015.3 i did not face
such problem.
yes. the current stable version of potplayer as you and quentin
mentioned, is 1.6.63856
but as i said i tried different versions and could not solve the issue
myself.
also, i did not change any settings in potplayer including: skins,
visual appearance, and its other settings.
vlc is not accessible for me, not has great quality and needs powerful
system.
i tried it and the result was only system resources consumption and
crashes of the program for me!
and the only satisfactory program for me is potplayer.
i found this in many month research, many program tested and going to
the many websites.
also, thanks so much for your link.
i joined this and repeated my problem.
the problem for me is only crashing of nvda, not potplayer!


hi quentin.
thanks extremely for your kindness.
i dont think that my problem is related to specific version of windows
and also specific version of potplayer.
i am sure there is one problem with nvda and potplayer which is
regression from nvda 2015.4 and later versions.

On 12/6/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
hi jacob.
thanks so much for helping me.

can you please test many files with potplayer?
eventually for me nvda is not responding and i dont know how to solve
this problem.

On 12/6/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
hi david and quentin.
i use xp and also i do all of my works with it.
i use internet, libreoffice, notepad, potplayer and one conversion
software.
i dont have the security programs because realy i dont trust them!

On 12/6/16, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:
You're more of an expert on what works under XP than me Brian, that's
great
info!

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 8:18 PM, Brian's Mail list account <
bglists@...> wrote:

Well, as far as I am aware, the basic plan is to not break XP if it
is
at
all possible, but just occasionally this might not be possible as the
windows code changes.
Indeed at the moment xp portable versions of even the next snapshots
are
very good. Try running portable copies of nvda on, say windows 10 and
you
will find lots of things that no longer work due to the security of
that
operating system not allowing access to parts of windows from a
portable
app.
the big problem at present for those using XP is the web browser.
Depending on your processor, 50 is the last version I can get to work
on
xp
with intel processors, and 48 is the last one on xp with amd
processors.
This is due to the lack of sse2 instruction set support on the amd
chips.
Dropbox, no matter what Dropbox say, is working fine again on xp
intel
processors at version 15, though they do warn that this could change
as
its officially not supported. AMD chips last working version of
Dropbox
is
13, and one has to disable updates by nefarious means to keep it
working
on
such hardware.

The hack to continue to get xp updates is still working for MSSE, but
his
month no xp security updates came down. whether this means they have
blocked the loophole or just they have given up I cannot say.
I notice that Flash for IE8 is seemingly not being updated by Adobe,
but
seems to be working in Firefox 50 at the moment.
Adobe reader DC is not usable on XP and 11 is the last version.

I'm sure there are many other issues but that really depends on what
you
are doing.
Its gratifying to note that the hacked copy of Outlook express that
works
in 10 is still supported by nvda, and its only issue is that its
preview
pane has to be turned off or it will fall over sometimes.


Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "David" <trailerdavid@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 8:31 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release,
and
thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease


Is XP REALLY not being supported any longer?

Could be. But I did read an article - think it is about a year ago -
where it was stated that Microsoft continue to support XP for
businesses, of course not free of charge. Cannot speak for the
validity
of the article, and do not know if I even bookmarked it either.


A whole other thing to keep in mind, is this:

Do you have an XP machine, and only connect it to the net to update
your
security software, you might still be able to use it offline for a
long
time yet. And if you only update the database of your security
software,
that software will keep rolling under XP for who knows how long.


From what I can see, several users still use XP. Even for those of
us
who happen to have made the step forward, to some newer flavor of
Windows, many of us still keep XP machines hanging around.
Personally,
I
do join the ones who have an XP machine, simply because I have
software
that is needed for certain tasks, which would not impose a security
risk, but which cannot be run under newer Windows. That is, my XP
machine is not going online, but I still need a screen reader for
it.
And, as the commercial screen readers tend to stop supporting an OS,
whenever Microsoft does, I am happy to learn that NVDA apparently
continues to run under XP. Hopefully, that will leave many of us the
chance to continue using our older equipment, for tasks that totally
well could be run on an offline, XP system.


Seemingly too, there will be many places in the world, where they
still
commonly use XP. Not everyone could afford the upgrade of the OS,
and
basically there might not be too much more holes in XP, than in any
newer flavors of Windows. According to what I read, both Win8 and
10,
seem to have open holes. Some even are well known, but for whatever
reason are not being cared for. And many times, the biggest holes
are
not in your OS itself, but more in the communication between you and
the
Internet. Such net related holes, might be independent on which OS
you
are running.


Just some thoughts to keep in mind, when advicing.

David

On 12/6/2016 6:49 AM, Shaun Everiss wrote:

Xp is dead, it will probably stay in core for a while but to be
honest
microsoft has deemed it unsupported so its crap os now and any
computer with it will have malware and be crappy to because
microsoft
says so and I really don't aggree with microsoft but its the way it
is.
Xp like win98 and other good versions of windows is history, soon 7
will be then we will have to struggle with 10.



On 6/12/2016 3:10 p.m., Michael Capelle wrote:

please, do not get rid of xp support.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Quentin Christensen"
<quentin@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease


That's true Gene. I had a thought in mind about Windows XP as
well,
although when I looked back at Nasrin's original question re
Potplayer, it
was using Windows 7 - although there are multiple versions of
Windows
7 as
well (for the record, I have Windows 7 home premium, SP1 64 bit).

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 11:18 AM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

And, of course, you aren't testing with XP. That may be the cause
of
these problems.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Quentin Christensen <quentin@...>
*Sent:* Monday, December 05, 2016 6:08 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

Hi everyone,

I downloaded the version that Nasrin linked to, which was the
same
one
Gene tried - version 1.6.6385619.7.

It doesn't have a traditional alt menu and you also can't tab
around
the
main screen to read the information which is displayed visually.
However,
you can get to the commands via the applications key, and there
are
keystrokes for most things, once you know what they are.

I tried it on both Windows 10 and Windows 7, and found that I
could
play
MP3 files with it, pause and play again, and alt+f4 to close when
I
finished listening to a couple of songs, and everything seems
fine?
I'm
using NVDA 2016.4rc1 Actually I just realised I still had 2016.3
on
the
Windows 7 machine so I've gone back and tried with 2016.4rc1 and
again, I
couldn't reproduce the crash, even after listening to a few
songs.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 9:11 AM, David Moore
<jesusloves1966@...>
wrote:

Hi, That is true,
Narrator, in win10 anniversary update, has enabled me to access
controls
that I could not access with JAWS or NVDA. I highly recommend
that
one
learn how to use Narrator, because it is getting more and more
powful in
win10, and can do a few things that high-end screen readers
cannot
do.
Think that you have three screen readerrs, Narrator, NVDA, and
JAWS
or
Window eyes that you can use in demo mode.

David Moore

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>
for
Windows 10



*From: *David <trailerdavid@...>
*Sent: *Monday, December 5, 2016 3:12 PM
*To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject: *Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease



Just for your correction.





You said you do NOT have any other screen reader to test? I do

understand what you mean, but it is not fully and completely
true.





ALL, and I mean ALL flavors of Windows - from at least XP and up
-
holds

Microsoft's embedded screen reader, named NARRATOR. Though far
from

being a full-fledged screen reader, it many times can help you
out.
For

instance, due to its very basic functionality, it at least could
give

you some idea to what extend a piece of software is accessible
at
all.

If NARRATOR cannot help you out, then chances are that the
software
at

the minimum requires some more advanced features of the screen
reader.





I do, and have don so in other settings, on a general basis
encourage

all: If your high-end screen reader cannot do what you want,
give

Narrator a go. Then com back and report your findings.





Might sound a bit awkward at first glance. But sometimes the
high-end

screen readers might have settings, that complicates the usage
of
a

software. Running Narrator, finding that things work, you might
be
able

to start tracing why the high-end screen reader does not do what
you
expect.





Furthermore, most - if not all - of the high-end screen readers,
do
have

downloadable demo-versions. Might be an idea, to download and
install at

least one such demo, and use it for cases when you want to
determine if

NVDA is the bottleneck of your issue. Far as I know, they all
provide

you fully working products, with an up-time of anything from 30
to
60

minutes; Enough time to get an idea of whether your third-party
software

is workable or not.





In the older days, installing more than one screen reader,
sometimes

caused system trouble. To the best of my knowledge, such is NOT
the
case

any longer, and have not been for a decade or so. In other
words,

encouraged are everyone, to go get yourself at least one backup
screen

reader, if nothing else go for a demo. It further might help the
tech

team of NVDA getting to the core of your problem, if you can
describe

what is taken place when running an alternative screen reader.





How do you know, if you prefer McDonald burgers, if you never
tasted

anything but Burger-King?





David







On 12/5/2016 5:22 PM, nasrin khaksar wrote:

gene.
thanks so much for helping me to test the program.
i dont have any screen reader except nvda to test.
me too, use windows xp service pack 3
you dont need to use nvda cursors to intract with potplayer
menus.
you should only press the application keys and you can access
to
all
menus and options by normal arrow keys.
only nvda freezes and says nothing in the windows except
unknown.
i should restart nvda to work as normal.
On 12/5/16, Brian Vogel <@britechguy> wrote:
Well, this thread has taken an interesting turn that I hadn't
ever
anticipated (and, to quote Seinfeld, "not that there's
anything
wrong
with

that.")
So I'll use this to get back on my soapbox about when anyone
encounters an

issue with any software or combination of software:
* if you cannot give steps necessary to replicate the problem
there's

virtually no hope that the problem can or will be solved
* if you can give steps necessary to replicate the problem,
but
others

running the same operating system and similar overall
configuration
that you

are don't have it when they perform those steps, this suggests
an
idiosyncratic problem with your own system
I cannot count the number of times when I've spent hours on a
given
problem

only to find out that it was a weird interaction between two
programs
that

are installed, that a system has not been updated and old DLL
files >> are

being called that have errors that have long ago been fixed,
etc.
I'm not saying that anyone is directly "at fault" for
anything,
but
these

are factors that you must consider and there will be occasions
when
"it's

just you" as well as many more when it's "not just you."
Having
a
detective's mindset is essential in instances such as this.
--
*Brian*
*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is
complete.
If

you’re alive, it isn’t.*
~ Lauren Bacall








--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306 <%2B61%207%203149%203306>
Direct: +61 413 904 383 <+61%20413%20904%20383>
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess



.




--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306
Direct: +61 413 904 383
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess
--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org



--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org



--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org

Andre Fisher
 

Where did you get this copy of Windows XP? Is it legal?

On 12/6/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
david,
i tested the demo version of jaws 11, 14 and 15 with nvda and the
result was crash and sometimes not responding nvda.
i took your advice and and recieve a message that i dont have narrator.
in the first time of installation of my windows, i tried openning
narrater via its shortcut and i did not have any voice.
i am sure that the narrator is not installed in my system.

On 12/6/16, David <trailerdavid@...> wrote:
What other screen reader have you tried to install and run, that caused
you trouble? Which version of that screen reader? When did you try it?


Give us some more facts, and maybe we can help you further, please.


David

On 12/6/2016 1:20 PM, nasrin khaksar wrote:
hi joseph.
yes, i use windows xp and i heard that .UIA is not supported on xp.
i did not change an important option for accessibility.


hi david.
my windows has problem and i dont know the reason.
but i should say that my windows has not narrator at all!
i tested this and and i am sure that i dont have narrator to test!
moreover, microsoft sam is not understandable for me and i cant
recognize what he says and what message does he read!
and also for me, i could not install another screen reader beside
nvda, because my system faces hangs, crashes and for me in my system,
screen readers are not compatible with each other.
you mentioned that having more than one screen reader does not cause
trouble, but for me it causes!


hi gene.
i tested many versions of potplayer and the result of testing all
versions, was crash of nvda since version 2015.4
so, its a regression in nvda 2015.4, because in 2015.3 i did not face
such problem.
yes. the current stable version of potplayer as you and quentin
mentioned, is 1.6.63856
but as i said i tried different versions and could not solve the issue
myself.
also, i did not change any settings in potplayer including: skins,
visual appearance, and its other settings.
vlc is not accessible for me, not has great quality and needs powerful
system.
i tried it and the result was only system resources consumption and
crashes of the program for me!
and the only satisfactory program for me is potplayer.
i found this in many month research, many program tested and going to
the many websites.
also, thanks so much for your link.
i joined this and repeated my problem.
the problem for me is only crashing of nvda, not potplayer!


hi quentin.
thanks extremely for your kindness.
i dont think that my problem is related to specific version of windows
and also specific version of potplayer.
i am sure there is one problem with nvda and potplayer which is
regression from nvda 2015.4 and later versions.

On 12/6/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
hi jacob.
thanks so much for helping me.

can you please test many files with potplayer?
eventually for me nvda is not responding and i dont know how to solve
this problem.

On 12/6/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
hi david and quentin.
i use xp and also i do all of my works with it.
i use internet, libreoffice, notepad, potplayer and one conversion
software.
i dont have the security programs because realy i dont trust them!

On 12/6/16, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:
You're more of an expert on what works under XP than me Brian, that's
great
info!

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 8:18 PM, Brian's Mail list account <
bglists@...> wrote:

Well, as far as I am aware, the basic plan is to not break XP if it
is
at
all possible, but just occasionally this might not be possible as
the
windows code changes.
Indeed at the moment xp portable versions of even the next snapshots
are
very good. Try running portable copies of nvda on, say windows 10
and
you
will find lots of things that no longer work due to the security of
that
operating system not allowing access to parts of windows from a
portable
app.
the big problem at present for those using XP is the web browser.
Depending on your processor, 50 is the last version I can get to
work
on
xp
with intel processors, and 48 is the last one on xp with amd
processors.
This is due to the lack of sse2 instruction set support on the amd
chips.
Dropbox, no matter what Dropbox say, is working fine again on xp
intel
processors at version 15, though they do warn that this could
change
as
its officially not supported. AMD chips last working version of
Dropbox
is
13, and one has to disable updates by nefarious means to keep it
working
on
such hardware.

The hack to continue to get xp updates is still working for MSSE,
but
his
month no xp security updates came down. whether this means they have
blocked the loophole or just they have given up I cannot say.
I notice that Flash for IE8 is seemingly not being updated by Adobe,
but
seems to be working in Firefox 50 at the moment.
Adobe reader DC is not usable on XP and 11 is the last version.

I'm sure there are many other issues but that really depends on what
you
are doing.
Its gratifying to note that the hacked copy of Outlook express that
works
in 10 is still supported by nvda, and its only issue is that its
preview
pane has to be turned off or it will fall over sometimes.


Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "David"
<trailerdavid@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 8:31 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release,
and
thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease


Is XP REALLY not being supported any longer?

Could be. But I did read an article - think it is about a year ago
-
where it was stated that Microsoft continue to support XP for
businesses, of course not free of charge. Cannot speak for the
validity
of the article, and do not know if I even bookmarked it either.


A whole other thing to keep in mind, is this:

Do you have an XP machine, and only connect it to the net to update
your
security software, you might still be able to use it offline for a
long
time yet. And if you only update the database of your security
software,
that software will keep rolling under XP for who knows how long.


From what I can see, several users still use XP. Even for those of
us
who happen to have made the step forward, to some newer flavor of
Windows, many of us still keep XP machines hanging around.
Personally,
I
do join the ones who have an XP machine, simply because I have
software
that is needed for certain tasks, which would not impose a security
risk, but which cannot be run under newer Windows. That is, my XP
machine is not going online, but I still need a screen reader for
it.
And, as the commercial screen readers tend to stop supporting an
OS,
whenever Microsoft does, I am happy to learn that NVDA apparently
continues to run under XP. Hopefully, that will leave many of us
the
chance to continue using our older equipment, for tasks that
totally
well could be run on an offline, XP system.


Seemingly too, there will be many places in the world, where they
still
commonly use XP. Not everyone could afford the upgrade of the OS,
and
basically there might not be too much more holes in XP, than in any
newer flavors of Windows. According to what I read, both Win8 and
10,
seem to have open holes. Some even are well known, but for whatever
reason are not being cared for. And many times, the biggest holes
are
not in your OS itself, but more in the communication between you
and
the
Internet. Such net related holes, might be independent on which OS
you
are running.


Just some thoughts to keep in mind, when advicing.

David

On 12/6/2016 6:49 AM, Shaun Everiss wrote:

Xp is dead, it will probably stay in core for a while but to be
honest
microsoft has deemed it unsupported so its crap os now and any
computer with it will have malware and be crappy to because
microsoft
says so and I really don't aggree with microsoft but its the way
it
is.
Xp like win98 and other good versions of windows is history, soon
7
will be then we will have to struggle with 10.



On 6/12/2016 3:10 p.m., Michael Capelle wrote:

please, do not get rid of xp support.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Quentin Christensen"
<quentin@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease


That's true Gene. I had a thought in mind about Windows XP as
well,
although when I looked back at Nasrin's original question re
Potplayer, it
was using Windows 7 - although there are multiple versions of
Windows
7 as
well (for the record, I have Windows 7 home premium, SP1 64 bit).

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 11:18 AM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

And, of course, you aren't testing with XP. That may be the
cause
of
these problems.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Quentin Christensen <quentin@...>
*Sent:* Monday, December 05, 2016 6:08 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

Hi everyone,

I downloaded the version that Nasrin linked to, which was the
same
one
Gene tried - version 1.6.6385619.7.

It doesn't have a traditional alt menu and you also can't tab
around
the
main screen to read the information which is displayed visually.
However,
you can get to the commands via the applications key, and there
are
keystrokes for most things, once you know what they are.

I tried it on both Windows 10 and Windows 7, and found that I
could
play
MP3 files with it, pause and play again, and alt+f4 to close
when
I
finished listening to a couple of songs, and everything seems
fine?
I'm
using NVDA 2016.4rc1 Actually I just realised I still had
2016.3
on
the
Windows 7 machine so I've gone back and tried with 2016.4rc1 and
again, I
couldn't reproduce the crash, even after listening to a few
songs.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 9:11 AM, David Moore
<jesusloves1966@...>
wrote:

Hi, That is true,
Narrator, in win10 anniversary update, has enabled me to access
controls
that I could not access with JAWS or NVDA. I highly recommend
that
one
learn how to use Narrator, because it is getting more and more
powful in
win10, and can do a few things that high-end screen readers
cannot
do.
Think that you have three screen readerrs, Narrator, NVDA, and
JAWS
or
Window eyes that you can use in demo mode.

David Moore

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>
for
Windows 10



*From: *David <trailerdavid@...>
*Sent: *Monday, December 5, 2016 3:12 PM
*To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject: *Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease



Just for your correction.





You said you do NOT have any other screen reader to test? I do

understand what you mean, but it is not fully and completely
true.





ALL, and I mean ALL flavors of Windows - from at least XP and
up
-
holds

Microsoft's embedded screen reader, named NARRATOR. Though far
from

being a full-fledged screen reader, it many times can help you
out.
For

instance, due to its very basic functionality, it at least
could
give

you some idea to what extend a piece of software is accessible
at
all.

If NARRATOR cannot help you out, then chances are that the
software
at

the minimum requires some more advanced features of the screen
reader.





I do, and have don so in other settings, on a general basis
encourage

all: If your high-end screen reader cannot do what you want,
give

Narrator a go. Then com back and report your findings.





Might sound a bit awkward at first glance. But sometimes the
high-end

screen readers might have settings, that complicates the usage
of
a

software. Running Narrator, finding that things work, you might
be
able

to start tracing why the high-end screen reader does not do
what
you
expect.





Furthermore, most - if not all - of the high-end screen
readers,
do
have

downloadable demo-versions. Might be an idea, to download and
install at

least one such demo, and use it for cases when you want to
determine if

NVDA is the bottleneck of your issue. Far as I know, they all
provide

you fully working products, with an up-time of anything from 30
to
60

minutes; Enough time to get an idea of whether your third-party
software

is workable or not.





In the older days, installing more than one screen reader,
sometimes

caused system trouble. To the best of my knowledge, such is NOT
the
case

any longer, and have not been for a decade or so. In other
words,

encouraged are everyone, to go get yourself at least one backup
screen

reader, if nothing else go for a demo. It further might help
the
tech

team of NVDA getting to the core of your problem, if you can
describe

what is taken place when running an alternative screen reader.





How do you know, if you prefer McDonald burgers, if you never
tasted

anything but Burger-King?





David







On 12/5/2016 5:22 PM, nasrin khaksar wrote:

gene.
thanks so much for helping me to test the program.
i dont have any screen reader except nvda to test.
me too, use windows xp service pack 3
you dont need to use nvda cursors to intract with potplayer
menus.
you should only press the application keys and you can access
to
all
menus and options by normal arrow keys.
only nvda freezes and says nothing in the windows except
unknown.
i should restart nvda to work as normal.
On 12/5/16, Brian Vogel <@britechguy> wrote:
Well, this thread has taken an interesting turn that I hadn't
ever
anticipated (and, to quote Seinfeld, "not that there's
anything
wrong
with

that.")
So I'll use this to get back on my soapbox about when anyone
encounters an

issue with any software or combination of software:
* if you cannot give steps necessary to replicate the problem
there's

virtually no hope that the problem can or will be solved
* if you can give steps necessary to replicate the problem,
but
others

running the same operating system and similar overall
configuration
that you

are don't have it when they perform those steps, this
suggests
an
idiosyncratic problem with your own system
I cannot count the number of times when I've spent hours on a
given
problem

only to find out that it was a weird interaction between two
programs
that

are installed, that a system has not been updated and old DLL
files >> are

being called that have errors that have long ago been fixed,
etc.
I'm not saying that anyone is directly "at fault" for
anything,
but
these

are factors that you must consider and there will be
occasions
when
"it's

just you" as well as many more when it's "not just you."
Having
a
detective's mindset is essential in instances such as this.
--
*Brian*
*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is
complete.
If

you’re alive, it isn’t.*
~ Lauren Bacall








--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306 <%2B61%207%203149%203306>
Direct: +61 413 904 383 <+61%20413%20904%20383>
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess



.




--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306
Direct: +61 413 904 383
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess
--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org



--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org




--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org



 

i dont know.

On 12/6/16, Andre Fisher <andrefisher729@...> wrote:
Where did you get this copy of Windows XP? Is it legal?

On 12/6/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
david,
i tested the demo version of jaws 11, 14 and 15 with nvda and the
result was crash and sometimes not responding nvda.
i took your advice and and recieve a message that i dont have narrator.
in the first time of installation of my windows, i tried openning
narrater via its shortcut and i did not have any voice.
i am sure that the narrator is not installed in my system.

On 12/6/16, David <trailerdavid@...> wrote:
What other screen reader have you tried to install and run, that caused
you trouble? Which version of that screen reader? When did you try it?


Give us some more facts, and maybe we can help you further, please.


David

On 12/6/2016 1:20 PM, nasrin khaksar wrote:
hi joseph.
yes, i use windows xp and i heard that .UIA is not supported on xp.
i did not change an important option for accessibility.


hi david.
my windows has problem and i dont know the reason.
but i should say that my windows has not narrator at all!
i tested this and and i am sure that i dont have narrator to test!
moreover, microsoft sam is not understandable for me and i cant
recognize what he says and what message does he read!
and also for me, i could not install another screen reader beside
nvda, because my system faces hangs, crashes and for me in my system,
screen readers are not compatible with each other.
you mentioned that having more than one screen reader does not cause
trouble, but for me it causes!


hi gene.
i tested many versions of potplayer and the result of testing all
versions, was crash of nvda since version 2015.4
so, its a regression in nvda 2015.4, because in 2015.3 i did not face
such problem.
yes. the current stable version of potplayer as you and quentin
mentioned, is 1.6.63856
but as i said i tried different versions and could not solve the issue
myself.
also, i did not change any settings in potplayer including: skins,
visual appearance, and its other settings.
vlc is not accessible for me, not has great quality and needs powerful
system.
i tried it and the result was only system resources consumption and
crashes of the program for me!
and the only satisfactory program for me is potplayer.
i found this in many month research, many program tested and going to
the many websites.
also, thanks so much for your link.
i joined this and repeated my problem.
the problem for me is only crashing of nvda, not potplayer!


hi quentin.
thanks extremely for your kindness.
i dont think that my problem is related to specific version of windows
and also specific version of potplayer.
i am sure there is one problem with nvda and potplayer which is
regression from nvda 2015.4 and later versions.

On 12/6/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
hi jacob.
thanks so much for helping me.

can you please test many files with potplayer?
eventually for me nvda is not responding and i dont know how to solve
this problem.

On 12/6/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
hi david and quentin.
i use xp and also i do all of my works with it.
i use internet, libreoffice, notepad, potplayer and one conversion
software.
i dont have the security programs because realy i dont trust them!

On 12/6/16, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:
You're more of an expert on what works under XP than me Brian,
that's
great
info!

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 8:18 PM, Brian's Mail list account <
bglists@...> wrote:

Well, as far as I am aware, the basic plan is to not break XP if it
is
at
all possible, but just occasionally this might not be possible as
the
windows code changes.
Indeed at the moment xp portable versions of even the next
snapshots
are
very good. Try running portable copies of nvda on, say windows 10
and
you
will find lots of things that no longer work due to the security
of
that
operating system not allowing access to parts of windows from a
portable
app.
the big problem at present for those using XP is the web browser.
Depending on your processor, 50 is the last version I can get to
work
on
xp
with intel processors, and 48 is the last one on xp with amd
processors.
This is due to the lack of sse2 instruction set support on the amd
chips.
Dropbox, no matter what Dropbox say, is working fine again on xp
intel
processors at version 15, though they do warn that this could
change
as
its officially not supported. AMD chips last working version of
Dropbox
is
13, and one has to disable updates by nefarious means to keep it
working
on
such hardware.

The hack to continue to get xp updates is still working for MSSE,
but
his
month no xp security updates came down. whether this means they
have
blocked the loophole or just they have given up I cannot say.
I notice that Flash for IE8 is seemingly not being updated by
Adobe,
but
seems to be working in Firefox 50 at the moment.
Adobe reader DC is not usable on XP and 11 is the last version.

I'm sure there are many other issues but that really depends on
what
you
are doing.
Its gratifying to note that the hacked copy of Outlook express that
works
in 10 is still supported by nvda, and its only issue is that its
preview
pane has to be turned off or it will fall over sometimes.


Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "David"
<trailerdavid@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 8:31 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release,
and
thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease


Is XP REALLY not being supported any longer?

Could be. But I did read an article - think it is about a year ago
-
where it was stated that Microsoft continue to support XP for
businesses, of course not free of charge. Cannot speak for the
validity
of the article, and do not know if I even bookmarked it either.


A whole other thing to keep in mind, is this:

Do you have an XP machine, and only connect it to the net to
update
your
security software, you might still be able to use it offline for a
long
time yet. And if you only update the database of your security
software,
that software will keep rolling under XP for who knows how long.


From what I can see, several users still use XP. Even for those
of
us
who happen to have made the step forward, to some newer flavor of
Windows, many of us still keep XP machines hanging around.
Personally,
I
do join the ones who have an XP machine, simply because I have
software
that is needed for certain tasks, which would not impose a
security
risk, but which cannot be run under newer Windows. That is, my XP
machine is not going online, but I still need a screen reader for
it.
And, as the commercial screen readers tend to stop supporting an
OS,
whenever Microsoft does, I am happy to learn that NVDA apparently
continues to run under XP. Hopefully, that will leave many of us
the
chance to continue using our older equipment, for tasks that
totally
well could be run on an offline, XP system.


Seemingly too, there will be many places in the world, where they
still
commonly use XP. Not everyone could afford the upgrade of the OS,
and
basically there might not be too much more holes in XP, than in
any
newer flavors of Windows. According to what I read, both Win8 and
10,
seem to have open holes. Some even are well known, but for
whatever
reason are not being cared for. And many times, the biggest holes
are
not in your OS itself, but more in the communication between you
and
the
Internet. Such net related holes, might be independent on which OS
you
are running.


Just some thoughts to keep in mind, when advicing.

David

On 12/6/2016 6:49 AM, Shaun Everiss wrote:

Xp is dead, it will probably stay in core for a while but to be
honest
microsoft has deemed it unsupported so its crap os now and any
computer with it will have malware and be crappy to because
microsoft
says so and I really don't aggree with microsoft but its the way
it
is.
Xp like win98 and other good versions of windows is history, soon
7
will be then we will have to struggle with 10.



On 6/12/2016 3:10 p.m., Michael Capelle wrote:

please, do not get rid of xp support.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Quentin Christensen"
<quentin@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease


That's true Gene. I had a thought in mind about Windows XP as
well,
although when I looked back at Nasrin's original question re
Potplayer, it
was using Windows 7 - although there are multiple versions of
Windows
7 as
well (for the record, I have Windows 7 home premium, SP1 64
bit).

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 11:18 AM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

And, of course, you aren't testing with XP. That may be the
cause
of
these problems.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Quentin Christensen <quentin@...>
*Sent:* Monday, December 05, 2016 6:08 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

Hi everyone,

I downloaded the version that Nasrin linked to, which was the
same
one
Gene tried - version 1.6.6385619.7.

It doesn't have a traditional alt menu and you also can't tab
around
the
main screen to read the information which is displayed
visually.
However,
you can get to the commands via the applications key, and there
are
keystrokes for most things, once you know what they are.

I tried it on both Windows 10 and Windows 7, and found that I
could
play
MP3 files with it, pause and play again, and alt+f4 to close
when
I
finished listening to a couple of songs, and everything seems
fine?
I'm
using NVDA 2016.4rc1 Actually I just realised I still had
2016.3
on
the
Windows 7 machine so I've gone back and tried with 2016.4rc1
and
again, I
couldn't reproduce the crash, even after listening to a few
songs.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 9:11 AM, David Moore
<jesusloves1966@...>
wrote:

Hi, That is true,
Narrator, in win10 anniversary update, has enabled me to
access
controls
that I could not access with JAWS or NVDA. I highly recommend
that
one
learn how to use Narrator, because it is getting more and more
powful in
win10, and can do a few things that high-end screen readers
cannot
do.
Think that you have three screen readerrs, Narrator, NVDA, and
JAWS
or
Window eyes that you can use in demo mode.

David Moore

Sent from Mail
<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>
for
Windows 10



*From: *David <trailerdavid@...>
*Sent: *Monday, December 5, 2016 3:12 PM
*To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject: *Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest
stable
release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease



Just for your correction.





You said you do NOT have any other screen reader to test? I do

understand what you mean, but it is not fully and completely
true.





ALL, and I mean ALL flavors of Windows - from at least XP and
up
-
holds

Microsoft's embedded screen reader, named NARRATOR. Though far
from

being a full-fledged screen reader, it many times can help you
out.
For

instance, due to its very basic functionality, it at least
could
give

you some idea to what extend a piece of software is accessible
at
all.

If NARRATOR cannot help you out, then chances are that the
software
at

the minimum requires some more advanced features of the screen
reader.





I do, and have don so in other settings, on a general basis
encourage

all: If your high-end screen reader cannot do what you want,
give

Narrator a go. Then com back and report your findings.





Might sound a bit awkward at first glance. But sometimes the
high-end

screen readers might have settings, that complicates the usage
of
a

software. Running Narrator, finding that things work, you
might
be
able

to start tracing why the high-end screen reader does not do
what
you
expect.





Furthermore, most - if not all - of the high-end screen
readers,
do
have

downloadable demo-versions. Might be an idea, to download and
install at

least one such demo, and use it for cases when you want to
determine if

NVDA is the bottleneck of your issue. Far as I know, they all
provide

you fully working products, with an up-time of anything from
30
to
60

minutes; Enough time to get an idea of whether your
third-party
software

is workable or not.





In the older days, installing more than one screen reader,
sometimes

caused system trouble. To the best of my knowledge, such is
NOT
the
case

any longer, and have not been for a decade or so. In other
words,

encouraged are everyone, to go get yourself at least one
backup
screen

reader, if nothing else go for a demo. It further might help
the
tech

team of NVDA getting to the core of your problem, if you can
describe

what is taken place when running an alternative screen reader.





How do you know, if you prefer McDonald burgers, if you never
tasted

anything but Burger-King?





David







On 12/5/2016 5:22 PM, nasrin khaksar wrote:

gene.
thanks so much for helping me to test the program.
i dont have any screen reader except nvda to test.
me too, use windows xp service pack 3
you dont need to use nvda cursors to intract with potplayer
menus.
you should only press the application keys and you can access
to
all
menus and options by normal arrow keys.
only nvda freezes and says nothing in the windows except
unknown.
i should restart nvda to work as normal.
On 12/5/16, Brian Vogel <@britechguy> wrote:
Well, this thread has taken an interesting turn that I
hadn't
ever
anticipated (and, to quote Seinfeld, "not that there's
anything
wrong
with

that.")
So I'll use this to get back on my soapbox about when anyone
encounters an

issue with any software or combination of software:
* if you cannot give steps necessary to replicate the
problem
there's

virtually no hope that the problem can or will be solved
* if you can give steps necessary to replicate the problem,
but
others

running the same operating system and similar overall
configuration
that you

are don't have it when they perform those steps, this
suggests
an
idiosyncratic problem with your own system
I cannot count the number of times when I've spent hours on
a
given
problem

only to find out that it was a weird interaction between two
programs
that

are installed, that a system has not been updated and old
DLL
files >> are

being called that have errors that have long ago been fixed,
etc.
I'm not saying that anyone is directly "at fault" for
anything,
but
these

are factors that you must consider and there will be
occasions
when
"it's

just you" as well as many more when it's "not just you."
Having
a
detective's mindset is essential in instances such as this.
--
*Brian*
*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is
complete.
If

you’re alive, it isn’t.*
~ Lauren Bacall








--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306 <%2B61%207%203149%203306>
Direct: +61 413 904 383 <+61%20413%20904%20383>
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess



.




--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306
Direct: +61 413 904 383
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess
--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org



--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org




--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org





--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org

 

Freedom Scientific stopped supporting XP since version 16 of Jaws, so I think it wouldn't be strange if some day in the future NV Access stops supporting XP. As has been mentioned in this thread, XP is now unsupported by Microsoft, and for day-to-day use I'd say Windows 7 or later is the optimum choice. If you really want or have to use XP, you can either install it in a virtual machine or use Windows XP mode, which I don't know if it's still available to download.

I've been a long time XP users, but finally decided, around 6 years ago, that I have to move on and upgrade to Windows 7 for better stability, and today I found myself relying on many features in Windows 7 that weren't available in XP.

 

one great advantage of free softwares is the freedom and choices of
there users for there operating system.
commercial programs stop the previous windows, but free programs
support them for many years later and even maybe forever!
i know some softwares that work on windows 95 until windows 10

On 12/6/16, Supanut Leepaisomboon <@supanut2000> wrote:
Freedom Scientific stopped supporting XP since version 16 of Jaws, so I
think it wouldn't be strange if some day in the future NV Access stops
supporting XP. As has been mentioned in this thread, XP is now unsupported
by Microsoft, and for day-to-day use I'd say Windows 7 or later is the
optimum choice. If you really want or have to use XP, you can either install
it in a virtual machine or use Windows XP mode, which I don't know if it's
still available to download.

I've been a long time XP users, but finally decided, around 6 years ago,
that I have to move on and upgrade to Windows 7 for better stability, and
today I found myself relying on many features in Windows 7 that weren't
available in XP.
--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org

Antony Stone
 

What would be the advantage of running Windows XP inside a virtual machine,
for someone who still has hardware which is capable of running it natively?


Antony.

On Tuesday 06 December 2016 at 15:18:58, Supanut Leepaisomboon wrote:

Freedom Scientific stopped supporting XP since version 16 of Jaws, so I
think it wouldn't be strange if some day in the future NV Access stops
supporting XP. As has been mentioned in this thread, XP is now unsupported
by Microsoft, and for day-to-day use I'd say Windows 7 or later is the
optimum choice. If you really want or have to use XP, you can either
install it in a virtual machine or use Windows XP mode, which I don't know
if it's still available to download.

I've been a long time XP users, but finally decided, around 6 years ago,
that I have to move on and upgrade to Windows 7 for better stability, and
today I found myself relying on many features in Windows 7 that weren't
available in XP.
--
I love deadlines. I love the whooshing noise they make as they go by.

- Douglas Noel Adams

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.

Antony Stone
 

There's a big difference between "most programs" and a screenreader.

Writing a standard application which can run under almost any version of
Windows is entirely feasible, but a screenreader has to hook into special
places in the operating system kernel, which change from one version of the
system to the next, and therefore the screenreader code cannot remain the same
and work across all versions of Windows.

One day there will be a choice between holding everybody back to the
capabilities supported by Windows XP, or else taking advantage of what the
latest versions of Windows provide, with the downside that the code no longer
runs on Windows XP.

After all, NVDA doesn't run under Windows 95.

People who still run Windows XP are already used to having to stick to old
versions of some applications because the new ones don't work under XP; the
same will simply become true for NVDA. Nobody's saying you won't be able to
run it any more, but you may have to stay with an outdated version to match an
outdated operating system.

Antony.

On Tuesday 06 December 2016 at 15:23:56, nasrin khaksar wrote:

one great advantage of free softwares is the freedom and choices of
there users for there operating system.
commercial programs stop the previous windows, but free programs
support them for many years later and even maybe forever!
i know some softwares that work on windows 95 until windows 10
--
Police have found a cartoonist dead in his house. They say that details are
currently sketchy.

Please reply to the list;
please *don't* CC me.

 

Well, you get to enjoy the benefits of both OSes. Think of it this way, if you install Windows XP mode in Windows 7, and when you go into Windows XP and install anything, it shows up in the Windows 7 start menu so it's relatively easy to launch; although the catch is that I think XP mode is not available for the home editions of Windows 7, except for Windows 7 Ultimate. From my tests in the past, NVDA does work under XP mode.

In response to a message earlier, yes, free/open source software stopped supporting old versions of Windows later than paid ones, but eventually old versions of Windows will not be supported. Take Firefox, Mozilla stopped supporting Windows 2000 I think a year or 2-3 years after Windows 2000 became unsupported by Microsoft.

 

antony, do you know the last version of nvda which supports xp?
whats the last version that i can use?
i realy wish that its be possible supporting of xp forever.

On 12/6/16, Supanut Leepaisomboon <@supanut2000> wrote:
Well, you get to enjoy the benefits of both OSes. Think of it this way, if
you install Windows XP mode in Windows 7, and when you go into Windows XP
and install anything, it shows up in the Windows 7 start menu so it's
relatively easy to launch; although the catch is that I think XP mode is not
available for the home editions of Windows 7, except for Windows 7 Ultimate.
From my tests in the past, NVDA does work under XP mode.

In response to a message earlier, yes, free/open source software stopped
supporting old versions of Windows later than paid ones, but eventually old
versions of Windows will not be supported. Take Firefox, Mozilla stopped
supporting Windows 2000 I think a year or 2-3 years after Windows 2000
became unsupported by Microsoft.
--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org

Jacob Kruger
 

If I open 900+ tracks in playback on my win10 64 bit machine, it works fine, and, unfortunately, don't have many tracks on the virtual windows xp machine.


I opened up one full album - 11 tracks, and, could jump around in a track with cursor keys, could jump between tracks using page up and down, and, when hit alt+f4, it just closed, without any hassles.


Have you tried gomPlayer? I operates pretty much exactly the same as this one, but, like said, with additional functionality, including speeding up track playback speeds, while maintaining voice adjustment, etc. etc. - I've been using it for a few years now as my primary, with winamp as backup, but anyway.


Stay well


Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Resistance is futile, but, acceptance is versatile..."

On 2016-12-06 14:10, nasrin khaksar wrote:
hi jacob.
thanks so much for helping me.

can you please test many files with potplayer?
eventually for me nvda is not responding and i dont know how to solve
this problem.

On 12/6/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
hi david and quentin.
i use xp and also i do all of my works with it.
i use internet, libreoffice, notepad, potplayer and one conversion
software.
i dont have the security programs because realy i dont trust them!

On 12/6/16, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:
You're more of an expert on what works under XP than me Brian, that's
great
info!

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 8:18 PM, Brian's Mail list account <
bglists@...> wrote:

Well, as far as I am aware, the basic plan is to not break XP if it is
at
all possible, but just occasionally this might not be possible as the
windows code changes.
Indeed at the moment xp portable versions of even the next snapshots are
very good. Try running portable copies of nvda on, say windows 10 and
you
will find lots of things that no longer work due to the security of
that
operating system not allowing access to parts of windows from a portable
app.
the big problem at present for those using XP is the web browser.
Depending on your processor, 50 is the last version I can get to work on
xp
with intel processors, and 48 is the last one on xp with amd processors.
This is due to the lack of sse2 instruction set support on the amd
chips.
Dropbox, no matter what Dropbox say, is working fine again on xp intel
processors at version 15, though they do warn that this could change as
its officially not supported. AMD chips last working version of Dropbox
is
13, and one has to disable updates by nefarious means to keep it working
on
such hardware.

The hack to continue to get xp updates is still working for MSSE, but
his
month no xp security updates came down. whether this means they have
blocked the loophole or just they have given up I cannot say.
I notice that Flash for IE8 is seemingly not being updated by Adobe, but
seems to be working in Firefox 50 at the moment.
Adobe reader DC is not usable on XP and 11 is the last version.

I'm sure there are many other issues but that really depends on what you
are doing.
Its gratifying to note that the hacked copy of Outlook express that
works
in 10 is still supported by nvda, and its only issue is that its preview
pane has to be turned off or it will fall over sometimes.


Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "David" <trailerdavid@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 8:31 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release,
and
thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease


Is XP REALLY not being supported any longer?

Could be. But I did read an article - think it is about a year ago -
where it was stated that Microsoft continue to support XP for
businesses, of course not free of charge. Cannot speak for the validity
of the article, and do not know if I even bookmarked it either.


A whole other thing to keep in mind, is this:

Do you have an XP machine, and only connect it to the net to update
your
security software, you might still be able to use it offline for a long
time yet. And if you only update the database of your security
software,
that software will keep rolling under XP for who knows how long.


From what I can see, several users still use XP. Even for those of us
who happen to have made the step forward, to some newer flavor of
Windows, many of us still keep XP machines hanging around. Personally,
I
do join the ones who have an XP machine, simply because I have software
that is needed for certain tasks, which would not impose a security
risk, but which cannot be run under newer Windows. That is, my XP
machine is not going online, but I still need a screen reader for it.
And, as the commercial screen readers tend to stop supporting an OS,
whenever Microsoft does, I am happy to learn that NVDA apparently
continues to run under XP. Hopefully, that will leave many of us the
chance to continue using our older equipment, for tasks that totally
well could be run on an offline, XP system.


Seemingly too, there will be many places in the world, where they still
commonly use XP. Not everyone could afford the upgrade of the OS, and
basically there might not be too much more holes in XP, than in any
newer flavors of Windows. According to what I read, both Win8 and 10,
seem to have open holes. Some even are well known, but for whatever
reason are not being cared for. And many times, the biggest holes are
not in your OS itself, but more in the communication between you and
the
Internet. Such net related holes, might be independent on which OS you
are running.


Just some thoughts to keep in mind, when advicing.

David

On 12/6/2016 6:49 AM, Shaun Everiss wrote:

Xp is dead, it will probably stay in core for a while but to be honest
microsoft has deemed it unsupported so its crap os now and any
computer with it will have malware and be crappy to because microsoft
says so and I really don't aggree with microsoft but its the way it
is.
Xp like win98 and other good versions of windows is history, soon 7
will be then we will have to struggle with 10.



On 6/12/2016 3:10 p.m., Michael Capelle wrote:

please, do not get rid of xp support.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Quentin Christensen"
<quentin@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease


That's true Gene. I had a thought in mind about Windows XP as well,
although when I looked back at Nasrin's original question re
Potplayer, it
was using Windows 7 - although there are multiple versions of Windows
7 as
well (for the record, I have Windows 7 home premium, SP1 64 bit).

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 11:18 AM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

And, of course, you aren't testing with XP. That may be the cause of
these problems.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Quentin Christensen <quentin@...>
*Sent:* Monday, December 05, 2016 6:08 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

Hi everyone,

I downloaded the version that Nasrin linked to, which was the same
one
Gene tried - version 1.6.6385619.7.

It doesn't have a traditional alt menu and you also can't tab around
the
main screen to read the information which is displayed visually.
However,
you can get to the commands via the applications key, and there are
keystrokes for most things, once you know what they are.

I tried it on both Windows 10 and Windows 7, and found that I could
play
MP3 files with it, pause and play again, and alt+f4 to close when I
finished listening to a couple of songs, and everything seems fine?
I'm
using NVDA 2016.4rc1 Actually I just realised I still had 2016.3 on
the
Windows 7 machine so I've gone back and tried with 2016.4rc1 and
again, I
couldn't reproduce the crash, even after listening to a few songs.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 9:11 AM, David Moore
<jesusloves1966@...>
wrote:

Hi, That is true,
Narrator, in win10 anniversary update, has enabled me to access
controls
that I could not access with JAWS or NVDA. I highly recommend that
one
learn how to use Narrator, because it is getting more and more
powful in
win10, and can do a few things that high-end screen readers cannot
do.
Think that you have three screen readerrs, Narrator, NVDA, and JAWS
or
Window eyes that you can use in demo mode.

David Moore

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
Windows 10



*From: *David <trailerdavid@...>
*Sent: *Monday, December 5, 2016 3:12 PM
*To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject: *Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease



Just for your correction.





You said you do NOT have any other screen reader to test? I do

understand what you mean, but it is not fully and completely true.





ALL, and I mean ALL flavors of Windows - from at least XP and up -
holds

Microsoft's embedded screen reader, named NARRATOR. Though far from

being a full-fledged screen reader, it many times can help you out.
For

instance, due to its very basic functionality, it at least could
give

you some idea to what extend a piece of software is accessible at
all.

If NARRATOR cannot help you out, then chances are that the software
at

the minimum requires some more advanced features of the screen
reader.





I do, and have don so in other settings, on a general basis
encourage

all: If your high-end screen reader cannot do what you want, give

Narrator a go. Then com back and report your findings.





Might sound a bit awkward at first glance. But sometimes the
high-end

screen readers might have settings, that complicates the usage of a

software. Running Narrator, finding that things work, you might be
able

to start tracing why the high-end screen reader does not do what
you
expect.





Furthermore, most - if not all - of the high-end screen readers, do
have

downloadable demo-versions. Might be an idea, to download and
install at

least one such demo, and use it for cases when you want to
determine if

NVDA is the bottleneck of your issue. Far as I know, they all
provide

you fully working products, with an up-time of anything from 30 to
60

minutes; Enough time to get an idea of whether your third-party
software

is workable or not.





In the older days, installing more than one screen reader,
sometimes

caused system trouble. To the best of my knowledge, such is NOT the
case

any longer, and have not been for a decade or so. In other words,

encouraged are everyone, to go get yourself at least one backup
screen

reader, if nothing else go for a demo. It further might help the
tech

team of NVDA getting to the core of your problem, if you can
describe

what is taken place when running an alternative screen reader.





How do you know, if you prefer McDonald burgers, if you never
tasted

anything but Burger-King?





David







On 12/5/2016 5:22 PM, nasrin khaksar wrote:

gene.
thanks so much for helping me to test the program.
i dont have any screen reader except nvda to test.
me too, use windows xp service pack 3
you dont need to use nvda cursors to intract with potplayer
menus.
you should only press the application keys and you can access to
all
menus and options by normal arrow keys.
only nvda freezes and says nothing in the windows except unknown.
i should restart nvda to work as normal.
On 12/5/16, Brian Vogel <@britechguy> wrote:
Well, this thread has taken an interesting turn that I hadn't
ever
anticipated (and, to quote Seinfeld, "not that there's anything
wrong
with

that.")
So I'll use this to get back on my soapbox about when anyone
encounters an

issue with any software or combination of software:
* if you cannot give steps necessary to replicate the problem
there's

virtually no hope that the problem can or will be solved
* if you can give steps necessary to replicate the problem, but
others

running the same operating system and similar overall
configuration
that you

are don't have it when they perform those steps, this suggests
an
idiosyncratic problem with your own system
I cannot count the number of times when I've spent hours on a
given
problem

only to find out that it was a weird interaction between two
programs
that

are installed, that a system has not been updated and old DLL
files >> are

being called that have errors that have long ago been fixed,
etc.
I'm not saying that anyone is directly "at fault" for anything,
but
these

are factors that you must consider and there will be occasions
when
"it's

just you" as well as many more when it's "not just you." Having
a
detective's mindset is essential in instances such as this.
--
*Brian*
*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is
complete.
If

you’re alive, it isn’t.*
~ Lauren Bacall








--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306 <%2B61%207%203149%203306>
Direct: +61 413 904 383 <+61%20413%20904%20383>
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess



.




--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306
Direct: +61 413 904 383
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess
--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org



 

jacob
yes i tested gomplayer before and i did not have this problem using it.

On 12/6/16, Jacob Kruger <jacob@...> wrote:
If I open 900+ tracks in playback on my win10 64 bit machine, it works
fine, and, unfortunately, don't have many tracks on the virtual windows
xp machine.


I opened up one full album - 11 tracks, and, could jump around in a
track with cursor keys, could jump between tracks using page up and
down, and, when hit alt+f4, it just closed, without any hassles.


Have you tried gomPlayer? I operates pretty much exactly the same as
this one, but, like said, with additional functionality, including
speeding up track playback speeds, while maintaining voice adjustment,
etc. etc. - I've been using it for a few years now as my primary, with
winamp as backup, but anyway.


Stay well


Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Resistance is futile, but, acceptance is versatile..."

On 2016-12-06 14:10, nasrin khaksar wrote:
hi jacob.
thanks so much for helping me.

can you please test many files with potplayer?
eventually for me nvda is not responding and i dont know how to solve
this problem.

On 12/6/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
hi david and quentin.
i use xp and also i do all of my works with it.
i use internet, libreoffice, notepad, potplayer and one conversion
software.
i dont have the security programs because realy i dont trust them!

On 12/6/16, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:
You're more of an expert on what works under XP than me Brian, that's
great
info!

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 8:18 PM, Brian's Mail list account <
bglists@...> wrote:

Well, as far as I am aware, the basic plan is to not break XP if it is
at
all possible, but just occasionally this might not be possible as the
windows code changes.
Indeed at the moment xp portable versions of even the next snapshots
are
very good. Try running portable copies of nvda on, say windows 10 and
you
will find lots of things that no longer work due to the security of
that
operating system not allowing access to parts of windows from a
portable
app.
the big problem at present for those using XP is the web browser.
Depending on your processor, 50 is the last version I can get to work
on
xp
with intel processors, and 48 is the last one on xp with amd
processors.
This is due to the lack of sse2 instruction set support on the amd
chips.
Dropbox, no matter what Dropbox say, is working fine again on xp intel
processors at version 15, though they do warn that this could change
as
its officially not supported. AMD chips last working version of
Dropbox
is
13, and one has to disable updates by nefarious means to keep it
working
on
such hardware.

The hack to continue to get xp updates is still working for MSSE, but
his
month no xp security updates came down. whether this means they have
blocked the loophole or just they have given up I cannot say.
I notice that Flash for IE8 is seemingly not being updated by Adobe,
but
seems to be working in Firefox 50 at the moment.
Adobe reader DC is not usable on XP and 11 is the last version.

I'm sure there are many other issues but that really depends on what
you
are doing.
Its gratifying to note that the hacked copy of Outlook express that
works
in 10 is still supported by nvda, and its only issue is that its
preview
pane has to be turned off or it will fall over sometimes.


Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "David" <trailerdavid@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 8:31 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable release,
and
thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease


Is XP REALLY not being supported any longer?

Could be. But I did read an article - think it is about a year ago -
where it was stated that Microsoft continue to support XP for
businesses, of course not free of charge. Cannot speak for the
validity
of the article, and do not know if I even bookmarked it either.


A whole other thing to keep in mind, is this:

Do you have an XP machine, and only connect it to the net to update
your
security software, you might still be able to use it offline for a
long
time yet. And if you only update the database of your security
software,
that software will keep rolling under XP for who knows how long.


From what I can see, several users still use XP. Even for those of
us
who happen to have made the step forward, to some newer flavor of
Windows, many of us still keep XP machines hanging around.
Personally,
I
do join the ones who have an XP machine, simply because I have
software
that is needed for certain tasks, which would not impose a security
risk, but which cannot be run under newer Windows. That is, my XP
machine is not going online, but I still need a screen reader for it.
And, as the commercial screen readers tend to stop supporting an OS,
whenever Microsoft does, I am happy to learn that NVDA apparently
continues to run under XP. Hopefully, that will leave many of us the
chance to continue using our older equipment, for tasks that totally
well could be run on an offline, XP system.


Seemingly too, there will be many places in the world, where they
still
commonly use XP. Not everyone could afford the upgrade of the OS, and
basically there might not be too much more holes in XP, than in any
newer flavors of Windows. According to what I read, both Win8 and 10,
seem to have open holes. Some even are well known, but for whatever
reason are not being cared for. And many times, the biggest holes are
not in your OS itself, but more in the communication between you and
the
Internet. Such net related holes, might be independent on which OS
you
are running.


Just some thoughts to keep in mind, when advicing.

David

On 12/6/2016 6:49 AM, Shaun Everiss wrote:

Xp is dead, it will probably stay in core for a while but to be
honest
microsoft has deemed it unsupported so its crap os now and any
computer with it will have malware and be crappy to because
microsoft
says so and I really don't aggree with microsoft but its the way it
is.
Xp like win98 and other good versions of windows is history, soon 7
will be then we will have to struggle with 10.



On 6/12/2016 3:10 p.m., Michael Capelle wrote:

please, do not get rid of xp support.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Quentin Christensen"
<quentin@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease


That's true Gene. I had a thought in mind about Windows XP as
well,
although when I looked back at Nasrin's original question re
Potplayer, it
was using Windows 7 - although there are multiple versions of
Windows
7 as
well (for the record, I have Windows 7 home premium, SP1 64 bit).

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 11:18 AM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

And, of course, you aren't testing with XP. That may be the cause
of
these problems.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Quentin Christensen <quentin@...>
*Sent:* Monday, December 05, 2016 6:08 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

Hi everyone,

I downloaded the version that Nasrin linked to, which was the same
one
Gene tried - version 1.6.6385619.7.

It doesn't have a traditional alt menu and you also can't tab
around
the
main screen to read the information which is displayed visually.
However,
you can get to the commands via the applications key, and there
are
keystrokes for most things, once you know what they are.

I tried it on both Windows 10 and Windows 7, and found that I
could
play
MP3 files with it, pause and play again, and alt+f4 to close when
I
finished listening to a couple of songs, and everything seems
fine?
I'm
using NVDA 2016.4rc1 Actually I just realised I still had 2016.3
on
the
Windows 7 machine so I've gone back and tried with 2016.4rc1 and
again, I
couldn't reproduce the crash, even after listening to a few songs.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 9:11 AM, David Moore
<jesusloves1966@...>
wrote:

Hi, That is true,
Narrator, in win10 anniversary update, has enabled me to access
controls
that I could not access with JAWS or NVDA. I highly recommend
that
one
learn how to use Narrator, because it is getting more and more
powful in
win10, and can do a few things that high-end screen readers
cannot
do.
Think that you have three screen readerrs, Narrator, NVDA, and
JAWS
or
Window eyes that you can use in demo mode.

David Moore

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>
for
Windows 10



*From: *David <trailerdavid@...>
*Sent: *Monday, December 5, 2016 3:12 PM
*To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject: *Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease



Just for your correction.





You said you do NOT have any other screen reader to test? I do

understand what you mean, but it is not fully and completely
true.





ALL, and I mean ALL flavors of Windows - from at least XP and up
-
holds

Microsoft's embedded screen reader, named NARRATOR. Though far
from

being a full-fledged screen reader, it many times can help you
out.
For

instance, due to its very basic functionality, it at least could
give

you some idea to what extend a piece of software is accessible at
all.

If NARRATOR cannot help you out, then chances are that the
software
at

the minimum requires some more advanced features of the screen
reader.





I do, and have don so in other settings, on a general basis
encourage

all: If your high-end screen reader cannot do what you want, give

Narrator a go. Then com back and report your findings.





Might sound a bit awkward at first glance. But sometimes the
high-end

screen readers might have settings, that complicates the usage of
a

software. Running Narrator, finding that things work, you might
be
able

to start tracing why the high-end screen reader does not do what
you
expect.





Furthermore, most - if not all - of the high-end screen readers,
do
have

downloadable demo-versions. Might be an idea, to download and
install at

least one such demo, and use it for cases when you want to
determine if

NVDA is the bottleneck of your issue. Far as I know, they all
provide

you fully working products, with an up-time of anything from 30
to
60

minutes; Enough time to get an idea of whether your third-party
software

is workable or not.





In the older days, installing more than one screen reader,
sometimes

caused system trouble. To the best of my knowledge, such is NOT
the
case

any longer, and have not been for a decade or so. In other words,

encouraged are everyone, to go get yourself at least one backup
screen

reader, if nothing else go for a demo. It further might help the
tech

team of NVDA getting to the core of your problem, if you can
describe

what is taken place when running an alternative screen reader.





How do you know, if you prefer McDonald burgers, if you never
tasted

anything but Burger-King?





David







On 12/5/2016 5:22 PM, nasrin khaksar wrote:

gene.
thanks so much for helping me to test the program.
i dont have any screen reader except nvda to test.
me too, use windows xp service pack 3
you dont need to use nvda cursors to intract with potplayer
menus.
you should only press the application keys and you can access to
all
menus and options by normal arrow keys.
only nvda freezes and says nothing in the windows except
unknown.
i should restart nvda to work as normal.
On 12/5/16, Brian Vogel <@britechguy> wrote:
Well, this thread has taken an interesting turn that I hadn't
ever
anticipated (and, to quote Seinfeld, "not that there's anything
wrong
with

that.")
So I'll use this to get back on my soapbox about when anyone
encounters an

issue with any software or combination of software:
* if you cannot give steps necessary to replicate the problem
there's

virtually no hope that the problem can or will be solved
* if you can give steps necessary to replicate the problem, but
others

running the same operating system and similar overall
configuration
that you

are don't have it when they perform those steps, this suggests
an
idiosyncratic problem with your own system
I cannot count the number of times when I've spent hours on a
given
problem

only to find out that it was a weird interaction between two
programs
that

are installed, that a system has not been updated and old DLL
files >> are

being called that have errors that have long ago been fixed,
etc.
I'm not saying that anyone is directly "at fault" for anything,
but
these

are factors that you must consider and there will be occasions
when
"it's

just you" as well as many more when it's "not just you."
Having
a
detective's mindset is essential in instances such as this.
--
*Brian*
*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is
complete.
If

you’re alive, it isn’t.*
~ Lauren Bacall








--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306 <%2B61%207%203149%203306>
Direct: +61 413 904 383 <+61%20413%20904%20383>
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess



.




--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306
Direct: +61 413 904 383
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess
--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org






--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org

 

joseph, quentin and all nvda developers,
i remembered that i had jaws 11 on my old cd.
i installed its demo version without any problem with potplayer!
but my graphic card is distroyed and my resolution and colors are
decreased to the lowest level and i could not raise them.
because does not work without uninstallation of jaws!
one of other my friends who has xp, tested for me with nvda 2015.4 and jaws 15.
with jaws was not any problem, but with nvda the result was the same with mine!

On 12/6/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
jacob
yes i tested gomplayer before and i did not have this problem using it.


On 12/6/16, Jacob Kruger <jacob@...> wrote:
If I open 900+ tracks in playback on my win10 64 bit machine, it works
fine, and, unfortunately, don't have many tracks on the virtual windows
xp machine.


I opened up one full album - 11 tracks, and, could jump around in a
track with cursor keys, could jump between tracks using page up and
down, and, when hit alt+f4, it just closed, without any hassles.


Have you tried gomPlayer? I operates pretty much exactly the same as
this one, but, like said, with additional functionality, including
speeding up track playback speeds, while maintaining voice adjustment,
etc. etc. - I've been using it for a few years now as my primary, with
winamp as backup, but anyway.


Stay well


Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
"Resistance is futile, but, acceptance is versatile..."

On 2016-12-06 14:10, nasrin khaksar wrote:
hi jacob.
thanks so much for helping me.

can you please test many files with potplayer?
eventually for me nvda is not responding and i dont know how to solve
this problem.

On 12/6/16, nasrin khaksar <nasrinkhaksar3@...> wrote:
hi david and quentin.
i use xp and also i do all of my works with it.
i use internet, libreoffice, notepad, potplayer and one conversion
software.
i dont have the security programs because realy i dont trust them!

On 12/6/16, Quentin Christensen <quentin@...> wrote:
You're more of an expert on what works under XP than me Brian, that's
great
info!

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 8:18 PM, Brian's Mail list account <
bglists@...> wrote:

Well, as far as I am aware, the basic plan is to not break XP if it
is
at
all possible, but just occasionally this might not be possible as the
windows code changes.
Indeed at the moment xp portable versions of even the next snapshots
are
very good. Try running portable copies of nvda on, say windows 10 and
you
will find lots of things that no longer work due to the security of
that
operating system not allowing access to parts of windows from a
portable
app.
the big problem at present for those using XP is the web browser.
Depending on your processor, 50 is the last version I can get to work
on
xp
with intel processors, and 48 is the last one on xp with amd
processors.
This is due to the lack of sse2 instruction set support on the amd
chips.
Dropbox, no matter what Dropbox say, is working fine again on xp
intel
processors at version 15, though they do warn that this could change
as
its officially not supported. AMD chips last working version of
Dropbox
is
13, and one has to disable updates by nefarious means to keep it
working
on
such hardware.

The hack to continue to get xp updates is still working for MSSE, but
his
month no xp security updates came down. whether this means they have
blocked the loophole or just they have given up I cannot say.
I notice that Flash for IE8 is seemingly not being updated by Adobe,
but
seems to be working in Firefox 50 at the moment.
Adobe reader DC is not usable on XP and 11 is the last version.

I'm sure there are many other issues but that really depends on what
you
are doing.
Its gratifying to note that the hacked copy of Outlook express that
works
in 10 is still supported by nvda, and its only issue is that its
preview
pane has to be turned off or it will fall over sometimes.


Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal email to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "David" <trailerdavid@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 8:31 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release,
and
thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease


Is XP REALLY not being supported any longer?

Could be. But I did read an article - think it is about a year ago -
where it was stated that Microsoft continue to support XP for
businesses, of course not free of charge. Cannot speak for the
validity
of the article, and do not know if I even bookmarked it either.


A whole other thing to keep in mind, is this:

Do you have an XP machine, and only connect it to the net to update
your
security software, you might still be able to use it offline for a
long
time yet. And if you only update the database of your security
software,
that software will keep rolling under XP for who knows how long.


From what I can see, several users still use XP. Even for those of
us
who happen to have made the step forward, to some newer flavor of
Windows, many of us still keep XP machines hanging around.
Personally,
I
do join the ones who have an XP machine, simply because I have
software
that is needed for certain tasks, which would not impose a security
risk, but which cannot be run under newer Windows. That is, my XP
machine is not going online, but I still need a screen reader for
it.
And, as the commercial screen readers tend to stop supporting an OS,
whenever Microsoft does, I am happy to learn that NVDA apparently
continues to run under XP. Hopefully, that will leave many of us the
chance to continue using our older equipment, for tasks that totally
well could be run on an offline, XP system.


Seemingly too, there will be many places in the world, where they
still
commonly use XP. Not everyone could afford the upgrade of the OS,
and
basically there might not be too much more holes in XP, than in any
newer flavors of Windows. According to what I read, both Win8 and
10,
seem to have open holes. Some even are well known, but for whatever
reason are not being cared for. And many times, the biggest holes
are
not in your OS itself, but more in the communication between you and
the
Internet. Such net related holes, might be independent on which OS
you
are running.


Just some thoughts to keep in mind, when advicing.

David

On 12/6/2016 6:49 AM, Shaun Everiss wrote:

Xp is dead, it will probably stay in core for a while but to be
honest
microsoft has deemed it unsupported so its crap os now and any
computer with it will have malware and be crappy to because
microsoft
says so and I really don't aggree with microsoft but its the way it
is.
Xp like win98 and other good versions of windows is history, soon 7
will be then we will have to struggle with 10.



On 6/12/2016 3:10 p.m., Michael Capelle wrote:

please, do not get rid of xp support.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Quentin Christensen"
<quentin@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease


That's true Gene. I had a thought in mind about Windows XP as
well,
although when I looked back at Nasrin's original question re
Potplayer, it
was using Windows 7 - although there are multiple versions of
Windows
7 as
well (for the record, I have Windows 7 home premium, SP1 64 bit).

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 11:18 AM, Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

And, of course, you aren't testing with XP. That may be the cause
of
these problems.

Gene
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Quentin Christensen <quentin@...>
*Sent:* Monday, December 05, 2016 6:08 PM
*To:* nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease

Hi everyone,

I downloaded the version that Nasrin linked to, which was the
same
one
Gene tried - version 1.6.6385619.7.

It doesn't have a traditional alt menu and you also can't tab
around
the
main screen to read the information which is displayed visually.
However,
you can get to the commands via the applications key, and there
are
keystrokes for most things, once you know what they are.

I tried it on both Windows 10 and Windows 7, and found that I
could
play
MP3 files with it, pause and play again, and alt+f4 to close when
I
finished listening to a couple of songs, and everything seems
fine?
I'm
using NVDA 2016.4rc1 Actually I just realised I still had 2016.3
on
the
Windows 7 machine so I've gone back and tried with 2016.4rc1 and
again, I
couldn't reproduce the crash, even after listening to a few
songs.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 9:11 AM, David Moore
<jesusloves1966@...>
wrote:

Hi, That is true,
Narrator, in win10 anniversary update, has enabled me to access
controls
that I could not access with JAWS or NVDA. I highly recommend
that
one
learn how to use Narrator, because it is getting more and more
powful in
win10, and can do a few things that high-end screen readers
cannot
do.
Think that you have three screen readerrs, Narrator, NVDA, and
JAWS
or
Window eyes that you can use in demo mode.

David Moore

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>
for
Windows 10



*From: *David <trailerdavid@...>
*Sent: *Monday, December 5, 2016 3:12 PM
*To: *nvda@nvda.groups.io
*Subject: *Re: [nvda] Is any release prior to the latest stable
release,
and thenext RC release, officially supported? #NVDARelease



Just for your correction.





You said you do NOT have any other screen reader to test? I do

understand what you mean, but it is not fully and completely
true.





ALL, and I mean ALL flavors of Windows - from at least XP and up
-
holds

Microsoft's embedded screen reader, named NARRATOR. Though far
from

being a full-fledged screen reader, it many times can help you
out.
For

instance, due to its very basic functionality, it at least could
give

you some idea to what extend a piece of software is accessible
at
all.

If NARRATOR cannot help you out, then chances are that the
software
at

the minimum requires some more advanced features of the screen
reader.





I do, and have don so in other settings, on a general basis
encourage

all: If your high-end screen reader cannot do what you want,
give

Narrator a go. Then com back and report your findings.





Might sound a bit awkward at first glance. But sometimes the
high-end

screen readers might have settings, that complicates the usage
of
a

software. Running Narrator, finding that things work, you might
be
able

to start tracing why the high-end screen reader does not do what
you
expect.





Furthermore, most - if not all - of the high-end screen readers,
do
have

downloadable demo-versions. Might be an idea, to download and
install at

least one such demo, and use it for cases when you want to
determine if

NVDA is the bottleneck of your issue. Far as I know, they all
provide

you fully working products, with an up-time of anything from 30
to
60

minutes; Enough time to get an idea of whether your third-party
software

is workable or not.





In the older days, installing more than one screen reader,
sometimes

caused system trouble. To the best of my knowledge, such is NOT
the
case

any longer, and have not been for a decade or so. In other
words,

encouraged are everyone, to go get yourself at least one backup
screen

reader, if nothing else go for a demo. It further might help the
tech

team of NVDA getting to the core of your problem, if you can
describe

what is taken place when running an alternative screen reader.





How do you know, if you prefer McDonald burgers, if you never
tasted

anything but Burger-King?





David







On 12/5/2016 5:22 PM, nasrin khaksar wrote:

gene.
thanks so much for helping me to test the program.
i dont have any screen reader except nvda to test.
me too, use windows xp service pack 3
you dont need to use nvda cursors to intract with potplayer
menus.
you should only press the application keys and you can access
to
all
menus and options by normal arrow keys.
only nvda freezes and says nothing in the windows except
unknown.
i should restart nvda to work as normal.
On 12/5/16, Brian Vogel <@britechguy> wrote:
Well, this thread has taken an interesting turn that I hadn't
ever
anticipated (and, to quote Seinfeld, "not that there's
anything
wrong
with

that.")
So I'll use this to get back on my soapbox about when anyone
encounters an

issue with any software or combination of software:
* if you cannot give steps necessary to replicate the problem
there's

virtually no hope that the problem can or will be solved
* if you can give steps necessary to replicate the problem,
but
others

running the same operating system and similar overall
configuration
that you

are don't have it when they perform those steps, this suggests
an
idiosyncratic problem with your own system
I cannot count the number of times when I've spent hours on a
given
problem

only to find out that it was a weird interaction between two
programs
that

are installed, that a system has not been updated and old DLL
files >> are

being called that have errors that have long ago been fixed,
etc.
I'm not saying that anyone is directly "at fault" for
anything,
but
these

are factors that you must consider and there will be occasions
when
"it's

just you" as well as many more when it's "not just you."
Having
a
detective's mindset is essential in instances such as this.
--
*Brian*
*Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is
complete.
If

you’re alive, it isn’t.*
~ Lauren Bacall








--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306 <%2B61%207%203149%203306>
Direct: +61 413 904 383 <+61%20413%20904%20383>
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess



.




--
Quentin Christensen
Training Material Developer
Basic Training for NVDA & Microsoft Word with NVDA E-Books now
available:
http://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Ph +61 7 3149 3306
Direct: +61 413 904 383
www.nvaccess.org
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess
--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org







--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org
--
we have not sent you but as a mercy to the creation.
holy quran, chapter 21, verse 107.
in the very authentic narration is:
imam hosein is the beacon of light and the ark of salvation.
best website for studying islamic book in different languages
al-islam.org