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Issues with Edge Chromium: is Google Chrome still a more viable option?


Amir
 

Folks,

I've been using Google Chrome over the past couple of years and have been a happy camper. However, having read about MS Edge Chromium's better privacy/RAM controls and the Read Aloud feature, I decided to give it a try. I really want to make the switch, but the following issues appear to be showstoppers:
1. NVDA has issues focusing the cursor on the Address Bar, or what is called the App Bar in Edge. That is, as I press Control+T or ALT+D, the focus doesn't always land in the edit box. Sometimes I need to press ALT+D several times in order to get the cursor there, and sometimes it doesn't happen at all.
2. I've tried tinkering with Edge's settings, but it seems that Edge doesn't provide a way to offer a blank new tab whenever I press Control+T. That might not be a big deal and Google Chrome doesn't have such a feature either, but I want to achieve this to take care of the following issue in Edge.
3. Unlike Google Chrome, Edge/NVDA tend to report "Load complete", "Load still in progress", "Opening new tab", etc. Even when I press Control+T, I hear "Load complete" which is driving me nuts! At first I thought I'd like them, but now I think there really should be a way to suppress them! And I'm aware of the Win 10 Apps Essentials trick, but can't use it because I don't want to lose other important announcements by utilizing that.
4. I have difficulty accessing favorites in Edge -- what Google Chrome calls Bookmarks. I've found the easiest way to do it would be pressing ALT+F, followed by O, followed by Enter to open Favorites. However, even there not all first-letter navigation presses work. For instance, pressing A or S activates the "Add this page to Favorites" or other options there instead of moving to Favorites which begin with A or S. This is also true with a couple of other letter presses, so how do you efficiently/quickly access Favorites in Edge Chromium? Moreover, in Edge NVDA doesn't notify you if a so-called Favorite item is a folder or a menu containing other items. Oftentimes pressing Enter on such items doesn't force NVDA to read its subitems and you have to get the readout manually.
5. This is more of an NVDA issue rather than an Edge issue. In Google Chrome NVDA notifies me whenever I type a misspelled word into an edit box via a buzz, but in Edge the buzz doesn't work at all. Guess either I or someone else should report this on Github, but this is definitely an NVDA issue with Edge 84.
6. Finally, the Read Aloud feature in Edge, which is really cool, has a serious flaw: it adds long pauses, up to 2 or 3 seconds, between sentences which makes the feature absolutely annoying. Any chance of reducing the pauses? I've seen no settings for that.
So with all of these issues, should I go back to Google Chrome? Your suggestions and work-arounds would be much appreciated.

Best,
Amir


Jesse Farquharson
 

Honestly, I used Google Chrome with NVDA, once, a while back. I lasted all of five minutes with it. The interface was just too confusing and the keystrokes made no sense.

If you are concerned about privacy, I would absolutely not go to Chrome again.

The most NVDA friendly browser, in my experience, is Firefox. I have had zero issues with it, and you don't get any of that page loading or loading complete stuff or whatever. The interface is, in my opinion, also much more pleasant.

Hope this helps.


Gene
 

If you had discussed your difficulties somewhere with blind users, you might have had a very different experience after your initial one. Key strokes do make sense. the interface as far as working with settings and other things, not browsing pages, is different but it is not that different so as to cause serious learning problems.

Firefox is good too, but it is a limitation if you rule out not using another modern browser. There are times when one browser works better, at times, much better on a web page.

If you want to try Chrome again, a lot of people would discuss its use with you. For a demanding blind Internet user, it is important to have more than one modern browser available.

Also, the Brave Browser is a Chrome-based browser and has a similar interface. it is well worth trying, for reasons I won't go into here.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Jesse Farquharson
Sent: Monday, August 10, 2020 12:04 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Issues with Edge Chromium: is Google Chrome still a more viable option?



Honestly, I used Google Chrome with NVDA, once, a while back. I lasted all of five minutes with it. The interface was just too confusing and the keystrokes made no sense.

If you are concerned about privacy, I would absolutely not go to Chrome again.

The most NVDA friendly browser, in my experience, is Firefox. I have had zero issues with it, and you don't get any of that page loading or loading complete stuff or whatever. The interface is, in my opinion, also much more pleasant.

Hope this helps.


Jesse Farquharson
 

In terms of discussing my issues with Chrome, at the time, I was not aware of the NVDA group, or any other group in the first place. Since then, I have had little interest in, or reason to, try Chrome again, for privacy reasons among other concerns.

I might try Brave though. Still, I definitely stand by my recommendation of Firefox at this point.


Amir
 

Let's disagree here. I've had various issues with Firefox -- from old to new, and won't touch it in the near future. I'd rather use Chrome or a Chromium-based browser. Honestly I trust Google -- at least more than I trust the likes of Facebook, so privacy concerns aren't a big issue.
 
Best,
Amir


Gene
 

I don't think it is valid to make a recommendation based on your experience with Chrome's actual use, before you try Chrome again with the proper help for what you don't understand. Your recommendation flies in the face of a great many blind peoples' experience.

It is true that Firefox is better about privacy and so from that standpoint, a recommendation based only on that might be justified but now, with the Brave browser, Brave might be better in terms of privacy. But at this point, not in terms of the actual user experience of a lot of blind users itself. As I said, Brave may be even more private than Firefox, unless you use Firefox with a good ad blocker.

The whole point of Brave is to both stop targeted advertising and pay web pages with Brave's own advertising, which is not targeted. They will give web sites money if you see Brave ads on a web site because they accept that advertising is essential for web sites to make money. But they reject the practice of targeted ads and all the data gathering done when you do things on line.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Jesse Farquharson
Sent: Monday, August 10, 2020 12:24 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Issues with Edge Chromium: is Google Chrome still a more viable option?



In terms of discussing my issues with Chrome, at the time, I was not aware of the NVDA group, or any other group in the first place. Since then, I have had little interest in, or reason to, try Chrome again, for privacy reasons among other concerns.

I might try Brave though. Still, I definitely stand by my recommendation of Firefox at this point.


Amir
 

And to add to that, I use, or rather used, Google Chrome in combination with AdGuard for Windows which is considered by many as the best champion of privacy and user protection.
So, folks, if possible please provide solutions or work-arounds for the Edge/NVDA duo? Do you always get the Address Bar as you press Control+T in Edge? How about a blank, non-intrusive new tab? And how do you interact with Favorites in Edge efficiently?
 
Best,
Amir


Richard Bartholomew
 

Hi, Amir

 

To answer a couple of your points…yes, I do go straight to the app bar if I press either Ctrl+T or Alt+D in Edge. 

 

As far as favourites are concerned, I’m afraid I can’t directly answer that since I use a different approach to favourites.  I save all my favourites as shortcuts in a Dropbox folder which means that I have access to them no matter which browser or platform I’m using provided, of course, the machine or phone has Dropbox installed on it.

 

Cheers

Richard Bartholomew

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Amir
Sent: 10 August 2020 06:46
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Issues with Edge Chromium: is Google Chrome still a more viable option?

 

And to add to that, I use, or rather used, Google Chrome in combination with AdGuard for Windows which is considered by many as the best champion of privacy and user protection.

So, folks, if possible please provide solutions or work-arounds for the Edge/NVDA duo? Do you always get the Address Bar as you press Control+T in Edge? How about a blank, non-intrusive new tab? And how do you interact with Favorites in Edge efficiently?

 

Best,

Amir


Amir
 

Hi Richard,
 
Thanks for your reply.
It's quite strange because I'm not moved to the App Bar/Address Bar upon pressing Control+T quite often. Even if I press Control+T, attempting to force the cursor to move to the App Bar with ALT+D fails quite often, and the cursor will remain on an HTML area belonging to the new tab page. I have none of these issues in Google Chrome, and wish Edge would allow us to use a blank page for its new tabs.
As for Favorites, I don't have Dropbox installed as I don't use it. The equivalent of the Bookmarks submenu in Google Chrome is Favorites in Edge, accessible via ALT+F+O followed by Enter, but it doesn't allow first-letter navigation for some of the letters as they activate some functions -- like A for Add this page to Favorites.
 
Best,
Amir


Luke Davis
 

Amir, i don't use Edge enough to have noticed this. However have you tried running the Com Registration Fixing Tool in NVDA's Tools menu? There is a slight chance it might normalize some of this behavior.

Then again, it could be an Edge bug that has no connection to NVDA, but running the Com Reg Fixing Tool won't hurt anything.

Luke

On Mon, 10 Aug 2020, Amir wrote:

It's quite strange because I'm not moved to the App Bar/Address Bar upon pressing Control+T quite often. Even if I press Control+T, attempting to force the
cursor to move to the App Bar with ALT+D fails quite often, and the cursor will remain on an HTML area belonging to the new tab page. I have none of these
issues in Google Chrome, and wish Edge would allow us to use a blank page for its new tabs.


Gene
 

What happens if you use control l, the other way to get to the address bar in Chrome? The results may be the same but since Chrome provides two different commands, try the other one.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Amir
Sent: Monday, August 10, 2020 4:52 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Issues with Edge Chromium: is Google Chrome still a more viable option?


Hi Richard,

Thanks for your reply.
It's quite strange because I'm not moved to the App Bar/Address Bar upon pressing Control+T quite often. Even if I press Control+T, attempting to force the cursor to move to the App Bar with ALT+D fails quite often, and the cursor will remain on an HTML area belonging to the new tab page. I have none of these issues in Google Chrome, and wish Edge would allow us to use a blank page for its new tabs.
As for Favorites, I don't have Dropbox installed as I don't use it. The equivalent of the Bookmarks submenu in Google Chrome is Favorites in Edge, accessible via ALT+F+O followed by Enter, but it doesn't allow first-letter navigation for some of the letters as they activate some functions -- like A for Add this page to Favorites.

Best,
Amir


Greg Wocher
 

Hello,
Try using Control Plus L to move to the address bar. It is what I use and it works every time. 

Greg Wocher


On Aug 10, 2020, at 5:52 AM, Amir <mobilespace08@...> wrote:

Hi Richard,
 
Thanks for your reply.
It's quite strange because I'm not moved to the App Bar/Address Bar upon pressing Control+T quite often. Even if I press Control+T, attempting to force the cursor to move to the App Bar with ALT+D fails quite often, and the cursor will remain on an HTML area belonging to the new tab page. I have none of these issues in Google Chrome, and wish Edge would allow us to use a blank page for its new tabs.
As for Favorites, I don't have Dropbox installed as I don't use it. The equivalent of the Bookmarks submenu in Google Chrome is Favorites in Edge, accessible via ALT+F+O followed by Enter, but it doesn't allow first-letter navigation for some of the letters as they activate some functions -- like A for Add this page to Favorites.
 
Best,
Amir


Amir
 

Control+L makes no difference. That is, if ALT+D works, Control+L also works. But if ALT+D fails, Control+l will fail, too.

Best,
Amir


Amir
 

Luke, thanks for the Registry suggestion. I just tried it but to no avail.
However, the more I test Edge Chromium with NVDA, the more I come to the conclusion that Google Chrome is a better option. For instance, with the groups.io website if you want to reply to a message via the web interface (like what I'm doing right now), NVDA becomes quite sluggish on the Rich Text area, responding quite slowly to presses of Left, Right, Home, End, and so forth in MS Edge Chromium 84. But with Google Chrome 84 everything works as expected and working with such editors is a breeze. Also add it to the fact that NVDA's reporting of misspelled words, via the buzz, is broken on MS Edge Chromium whereas it works with Google Chrome like a charm. Guess I'm switching back to Google Chrome after that stint with Edge.

Best,
Amir


 

If CTRL+L/ALT+D aren't moving you to the address bar in new Edge then there is a corruption in your installation.

With the exception of a very few shortcuts, because Microsoft elected to maintain the Favorites terminology, pretty much every keyboard command applicable to Chrome (or any Chromium-based browser) is also applicable to new Edge.

You should try, Using SFC (System File Checker) and DISM (Deployment Imaging Servicing and Management) to Repair Windows 8 & 10, for starters.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

          ~ Oscar Wilde

 


CARLOS-ESTEBAN
 

Hello.

About the notifications, you can create a configuration profile with NVDA+control+P in the Microsoft Edge Window. In this configuration profile, disable report notifications and this option only go to work if you is in Edge. In other Windows, NVDA read the notifications.

regards.


El 10/8/2020 a las 5:46, Greg Wocher escribió:
Hello,
Try using Control Plus L to move to the address bar. It is what I use and it works every time. 

Greg Wocher


On Aug 10, 2020, at 5:52 AM, Amir <mobilespace08@...> wrote:

Hi Richard,
 
Thanks for your reply.
It's quite strange because I'm not moved to the App Bar/Address Bar upon pressing Control+T quite often. Even if I press Control+T, attempting to force the cursor to move to the App Bar with ALT+D fails quite often, and the cursor will remain on an HTML area belonging to the new tab page. I have none of these issues in Google Chrome, and wish Edge would allow us to use a blank page for its new tabs.
As for Favorites, I don't have Dropbox installed as I don't use it. The equivalent of the Bookmarks submenu in Google Chrome is Favorites in Edge, accessible via ALT+F+O followed by Enter, but it doesn't allow first-letter navigation for some of the letters as they activate some functions -- like A for Add this page to Favorites.
 
Best,
Amir

--

Carlos Esteban Martínez Macías.

Músico (pianista) y también ayuda a usuarios ciegos con el uso de lectores de pantalla y tecnología.

Experto certificado en el lector de pantalla NVDA.


Musicien (pianist) and also help to the blind people in the use of screen readers and technology. Certified expert in the screen reader NVDA.


Amir
 

It's not that they fail all the time. Rather, they sometimes fail and sometimes work -- especially when Control+T is pressed. So I don't think the installation is problematic.
Given the overall smoothness of NVDA's behavior with Google Chrome compared with Edge and the misspelled notification issue affecting MS Edge, I'd rather return to Google Chrome and not go through the hassles of the Windows fix. BTW I reported NVDA's misspelled notification bug here: https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/11480

Best,
Amir


 

On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 10:54 AM, Amir wrote:
Rather, they sometimes fail and sometimes work -- especially when Control+T is pressed.
-
Which, again, is highly atypical.  I cannot, and will not attempt, to make you do anything.  But you are having experiences that are outliers on the bell curve, which clearly suggest that something is not quite right.

I've been using Chromium-based Edge since before its wide release, both with and without a screen reader, and have not as yet encountered any of the issues you report.  Others have told you the same.   That suggests something idiosyncratic to your installation, whether of Edge or of Windows 10.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally.

          ~ Oscar Wilde

 


Amir
 

I've returned to Google Chrome 84 for now, but will give MS Edge 85 another try as it is released. My issues aren't limited to the Address Bar/App Bar, and a couple of them are NVDA-specific as reported on Github. So I'd rather test newer releases of both in the future instead of going through the Windows fix.

Best,
Amir


Bobby Vinton
 

How do I create a profile for edge?  I went to the profile menu and did not see edge in the menus at all.  Could you please go in to a bit more de tale?

On 8/10/2020 10:36 AM, CARLOS-ESTEBAN wrote:

Hello.

About the notifications, you can create a configuration profile with NVDA+control+P in the Microsoft Edge Window. In this configuration profile, disable report notifications and this option only go to work if you is in Edge. In other Windows, NVDA read the notifications.

regards.


El 10/8/2020 a las 5:46, Greg Wocher escribió:
Hello,
Try using Control Plus L to move to the address bar. It is what I use and it works every time. 

Greg Wocher


On Aug 10, 2020, at 5:52 AM, Amir <mobilespace08@...> wrote:

Hi Richard,
 
Thanks for your reply.
It's quite strange because I'm not moved to the App Bar/Address Bar upon pressing Control+T quite often. Even if I press Control+T, attempting to force the cursor to move to the App Bar with ALT+D fails quite often, and the cursor will remain on an HTML area belonging to the new tab page. I have none of these issues in Google Chrome, and wish Edge would allow us to use a blank page for its new tabs.
As for Favorites, I don't have Dropbox installed as I don't use it. The equivalent of the Bookmarks submenu in Google Chrome is Favorites in Edge, accessible via ALT+F+O followed by Enter, but it doesn't allow first-letter navigation for some of the letters as they activate some functions -- like A for Add this page to Favorites.
 
Best,
Amir

--

Carlos Esteban Martínez Macías.

Músico (pianista) y también ayuda a usuarios ciegos con el uso de lectores de pantalla y tecnología.

Experto certificado en el lector de pantalla NVDA.


Musicien (pianist) and also help to the blind people in the use of screen readers and technology. Certified expert in the screen reader NVDA.