Layers and NVDA


Cearbhall O'Meadhra
 

Hi all you experts!

 

I have only heard of layers yesterday, would you believe?

 

I have been involved in programming since DOS days and have HTML C++ and Cobol and basic under my belt but I have not been active in programming for the pat 20 years . perhaps that would excuse me?

 

Can you point me to a good introduction to the concept of “Layers” in modern programs? My discovery of all this came from a question at a recent tech discussion asking “What are Layered keys?” As you can guess, I had no idea what this meant and started reading.

 

So far, I have the impression that “layering” allows an application to access some other program or application, like Photo shop or a browser, to capture data while the user keeps the application open and, in fact, does not need to know that an outside application has been called. I assume that NVDA’s OCR is such a case in which NVDA can launch its OCR function without closing the base application(a new term which, as you can see, I am already using like  a pro!). This allows the OCR function to hook any other resources that are on the computer or network that enable the OCR to take place, even though those same resources have nothing to do with the base application. Have I got that right?

 

If I have correctly understood the basic idea, I am really pleased. Then comes what does a screen reader do about this situation? Does the screen reader ever let the user know that there is a layered operation going on? Does the user need to know that there is a layered operation? If so, why? Then, what keystrokes apply to the use of the layer? When does the user know to use “Layered” keystrokes rather than “basic” ones?

 

All the best,

 

Cearbhall

 

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...

 

 




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Sarah k Alawami
 

Yes and no. When I sim, I have a program which allows me to use an AP we are coding. So I hit the right bracket, I hear a beep, and then its application takes over and II can then use keys without interfeering with my sim and lowering my landing ggear let's say. Think home row mode in jaws, or BX mode in jaws. It is a really cool concept

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On 11 Apr 2021, at 13:03, Cearbhall O'Meadhra wrote:

Hi all you experts!

 

I have only heard of layers yesterday, would you believe?

 

I have been involved in programming since DOS days and have HTML C++ and Cobol and basic under my belt but I have not been active in programming for the pat 20 years . perhaps that would excuse me?

 

Can you point me to a good introduction to the concept of “Layers” in modern programs? My discovery of all this came from a question at a recent tech discussion asking “What are Layered keys?” As you can guess, I had no idea what this meant and started reading.

 

So far, I have the impression that “layering” allows an application to access some other program or application, like Photo shop or a browser, to capture data while the user keeps the application open and, in fact, does not need to know that an outside application has been called. I assume that NVDA’s OCR is such a case in which NVDA can launch its OCR function without closing the base application(a new term which, as you can see, I am already using like  a pro!). This allows the OCR function to hook any other resources that are on the computer or network that enable the OCR to take place, even though those same resources have nothing to do with the base application. Have I got that right?

 

If I have correctly understood the basic idea, I am really pleased. Then comes what does a screen reader do about this situation? Does the screen reader ever let the user know that there is a layered operation going on? Does the user need to know that there is a layered operation? If so, why? Then, what keystrokes apply to the use of the layer? When does the user know to use “Layered” keystrokes rather than “basic” ones?

 

All the best,

 

Cearbhall

 

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...

 

 




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Luke Davis
 

Honestly I have not heard the term layering used in the way that you are using it.

There is programmatic layering, which is mainly about isolating different portions of a program into higher and lower functions that only know about the layer directly above/below them.

There is screen reader keyboard layers, which is when one screen reader keyboard command (gesture, in NVDA terms), causes other keys on the keyboard to have effects other than they usually would.

For example, the Developer Toolkit add-on for NVDA does this.
Read more about it here: https://addons.nvda-project.org/./addons/developerToolkit.en.html
You press a certain key sequence, after which other keyboard keys now do something dedicated to that add-on, instead of whatever they did before. It is a way of using more keyboard commands than you normally have keys available to use conveniently.

But I don't think that's quite what you're talking about, at least not entirely, as you seem to be bringing in other concepts of programs interacting with each other, which I have not heard called layering.

Then again, there is much I don't know. You may be better off asking about this on either the nvda-devel or nvda-addons lists.
https://groups.io/g/nvda-devel
https://groups.io/g/nvda-addons


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Luke

"In this life there are obstacles, and forces who overcome obstacles. You can be either one or the other.
If you refuse to even try to clear an obstacle, you become the obstacle."
- Joel Shepherd


Cearbhall O'Meadhra
 

Thanks for this, Luke. I am a complete novice as I only heard about this
concept fo layers last Saturday! Please don't take it that I know anything
about it yet. I will pull back my concept as you clearly indicate it as
misplaced. I agree that the information I have gathered so far simply permits
extra keystrokes that might otherwise interfere with the basic set of keys
that drive the screen reader.

I will study the detail of your response and I am sure to learn more from it.


All the best,

Cearbhall

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@blbc.ie

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Luke Davis
Sent: Monday, April 12, 2021 4:23 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Layers and NVDA

Honestly I have not heard the term layering used in the way that you are
using it.

There is programmatic layering, which is mainly about isolating different
portions of a program into higher and lower functions that only know about
the layer directly above/below them.

There is screen reader keyboard layers, which is when one screen reader
keyboard command (gesture, in NVDA terms), causes other keys on the keyboard
to have effects other than they usually would.

For example, the Developer Toolkit add-on for NVDA does this.
Read more about it here:
https://addons.nvda-project.org/./addons/developerToolkit.en.html
You press a certain key sequence, after which other keyboard keys now do
something dedicated to that add-on, instead of whatever they did before. It
is a way of using more keyboard commands than you normally have keys
available to use conveniently.

But I don't think that's quite what you're talking about, at least not
entirely, as you seem to be bringing in other concepts of programs
interacting with each other, which I have not heard called layering.

Then again, there is much I don't know. You may be better off asking about
this on either the nvda-devel or nvda-addons lists.
https://groups.io/g/nvda-devel
https://groups.io/g/nvda-addons


--
Luke

"In this life there are obstacles, and forces who overcome obstacles. You can
be either one or the other.
If you refuse to even try to clear an obstacle, you become the obstacle."
- Joel Shepherd






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Desert Moon
 

Hello All,

I use ZoomText 2020 at work. ZT offers a bunch of layered hotkeys. Here is the definition:

Tip: A layered keystroke reduces the number of keys that you need to hold down at once to perform an action. To type a layered keystroke, press and release CAPS LOCK+SPACEBAR, followed by the appropriate keystroke to perform the action.
https://www.freedomscientific.com/training/zoomtext/zoomtext-hotkeys/





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Desert