Topics

Microsoft Edge Internet Explorer mode conflict with NVDA


Louise Pfau
 

Hi.  When I tried to read a podcast feed in Microsoft Edge with Internet Explorer mode, the speech quit.  I had to restart NVDA, and when I did, the page was read as a restore error.  I used Internet Explorer mode because the default mode for both Microsoft Edge and Google Chrome displays what I think is the code for a lot of the podcast feeds I use.  I like reading through podcast feeds in web browsers.

Thanks,

Louise


Quentin Christensen
 

Does it always do this on that page - eg if you go back to the same page will it do it again?  If so, can you share the URL please?

Are you using any NVDA add-ons?  If you restart NVDA without those (NVDA+Q then down arrow to "Restart NVDA with add-ons disabled" then enter) does it make a difference.

And which version of NVDA are you using?  EG NVDA 2020.2 or NVDA 2020.3 RC1? (and if you try the other version does it help?)

Regards

Quentin.

On Mon, Oct 12, 2020 at 3:27 PM Louise Pfau <louise.pfau@...> wrote:
Hi.  When I tried to read a podcast feed in Microsoft Edge with Internet Explorer mode, the speech quit.  I had to restart NVDA, and when I did, the page was read as a restore error.  I used Internet Explorer mode because the default mode for both Microsoft Edge and Google Chrome displays what I think is the code for a lot of the podcast feeds I use.  I like reading through podcast feeds in web browsers.

Thanks,

Louise



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Louise Pfau
 

Hi.  This issue happened before I'd installed any add-ons, so disabling them would probably produce the same result.  There are several urls that this happens with, but I believe they all have xml code because when I open them, xml is mentioned.  I'm running NVDA 2020.3 RC1.

Thanks,

Louise


Quentin Christensen
 

Have you got a page it always does it on?  (and can you share the URL please - it's a bit hard to test without an example!)


On Mon, Oct 12, 2020 at 6:07 PM Louise Pfau <louise.pfau@...> wrote:
Hi.  This issue happened before I'd installed any add-ons, so disabling them would probably produce the same result.  There are several urls that this happens with, but I believe they all have xml code because when I open them, xml is mentioned.  I'm running NVDA 2020.3 RC1.

Thanks,

Louise



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Louise Pfau
 

Hi.  I didn't want to send a long list of urls to the list.  I've placed an example below my name.  I should note that Google Chrome creates the same xml error, although it doesn't have Internet Explorer mode.

Thanks,

Louise

Fictional: https://fictional.libsyn.com/rss


Gene
 

I don't see an error with Chrome. I don't use Edge. What I do see with chrome is something that looks as though a lot of source code is displayed.

Firefox renders the page better but it gives a message at the top
This XML file does not appear to have any style information associated with it. The document tree is shown below.

We'll see what people say with the technical knowledge to evaluate the situation but I doubt the page will display properly in general. I don't know if there is any problem other than what may exist on the page.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Louise Pfau
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2020 12:47 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft Edge Internet Explorer mode conflict with NVDA

Hi. I didn't want to send a long list of urls to the list. I've placed an example below my name. I should note that Google Chrome creates the same xml error, although it doesn't have Internet Explorer mode.

Thanks,

Louise


Fictional: https://fictional.libsyn.com/rss


Louise Pfau
 

Hi.  I didn't know exactly how to describe the phenomenon apart from an error.  Internet Explorer displays the page correctly, along with the other pages that do this.  I'm aware that Internet Explorer is nearing its end-of-life date, so I want to find a workable alternative.  While we're on the topic of feeds not reading correctly, what is a feed code error?  The url for the Victor Reader Stream feed displays a feed code error in Google Chrome, Microsoft Edge, and Microsoft Internet Explorer.

Thanks,

Louise


Arlene
 

Hi, I don’t use IE, I use Chrome I don’t use edge often. I mostly use Chrome as default browser.  I can partly confirm your problem.  I’ll play around with your link some more later tonight.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Louise Pfau
Sent: October 12, 2020 3:32 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft Edge Internet Explorer mode conflict with NVDA

 

Hi.  I didn't know exactly how to describe the phenomenon apart from an error.  Internet Explorer displays the page correctly, along with the other pages that do this.  I'm aware that Internet Explorer is nearing its end-of-life date, so I want to find a workable alternative.  While we're on the topic of feeds not reading correctly, what is a feed code error?  The url for the Victor Reader Stream feed displays a feed code error in Google Chrome, Microsoft Edge, and Microsoft Internet Explorer.

Thanks,

Louise

 


Scott Salzman
 

Hi Louise,

 

I believe that the example URL you included in your email, https://fictional.libsyn.com/rss, is actually a URL that points to the RSS feed, and not to a web browser-friendly version of the information contained in that feed.  I think that if you just remove the trailing "rss" from this URL, you'll find a web page that is intended to be read with a web browser (that URL would be https://fictional.libsyn.com), and will work as I believe you intend for it to work.  If this suggestion does what you wanted, then when you encounter a web page that seems like you've run into a similar issue, if those pages' URLs have either a trailing "rss" or a trailing "feed", try removing them from the URL, and then reading the page that the resulting URL points at.

 

Since this might help with future troubleshooting, I'll mention that, on the shorter version of the above URL example, I found a link called "Subscribe to RSS feed".  Links with that text typically point at RSS feeds, so they're not likely to be readable as web pages.

 

Oh, and if https://fictional.libsyn.com is a podcast site you visit, then you probably already know this, but each podcast title is a level 2 heading, and the only way I was able to get the podcasts to play, using NVDA, was to use Shift+Enter on the play buttons.

 

So the issue you described with NVDA and certain web browsers, may be due to how certain browsers behave when they try to recognize and process an RSS feed.

 

Hope this was helpful and neither too technical nor not technical enough.

 

Scott

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Louise Pfau via groups.io
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2020 1:47 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft Edge Internet Explorer mode conflict with NVDA

 

Hi.  I didn't want to send a long list of urls to the list.  I've placed an example below my name.  I should note that Google Chrome creates the same xml error, although it doesn't have Internet Explorer mode.

Thanks,

Louise

Fictional: https://fictional.libsyn.com/rss


Gene
 

Sometimes, one browser, even Internet Explorer, works better on a certain page. It may be the best solution to use Internet Explorer on that page, if it is a [page that should be safe. I don't know if or what kinds of ads are shown on the page, but that is where I would expect the danger to be, so you would be, I think, pretty safe on a page like that either if it has no ads or if you use an ad blocker.

In spite of the errors or odd presentation, is there anything you can't do on the page with the other browsers? I didn't look carefully but it looked to me as though you might be able to do what you want, just less conveniently.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Louise Pfau
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2020 5:29 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft Edge Internet Explorer mode conflict with NVDA

Hi. I didn't know exactly how to describe the phenomenon apart from an error. Internet Explorer displays the page correctly, along with the other pages that do this. I'm aware that Internet Explorer is nearing its end-of-life date, so I want to find a workable alternative. While we're on the topic of feeds not reading correctly, what is a feed code error? The url for the Victor Reader Stream feed displays a feed code error in Google Chrome, Microsoft Edge, and Microsoft Internet Explorer.

Thanks,

Louise


Gene
 

I tried your suggestion,  removing the rss at the end of the address and using it.  the proper browser page came up. 


While I don't know this, I wonder if Internet Explorer works better on the RSS version of the page either because it doesn't follow current web standards regarding such content or because it somehow is using its built-in RSS reading function in decoding the page.  Someone else with the technical knowledge to discuss that question may be able to discuss whether either guess is right. 


Gene

On 10/12/2020 8:40 PM, Scott Salzman wrote:

Hi Louise,

 

I believe that the example URL you included in your email, https://fictional.libsyn.com/rss, is actually a URL that points to the RSS feed, and not to a web browser-friendly version of the information contained in that feed.  I think that if you just remove the trailing "rss" from this URL, you'll find a web page that is intended to be read with a web browser (that URL would be https://fictional.libsyn.com), and will work as I believe you intend for it to work.  If this suggestion does what you wanted, then when you encounter a web page that seems like you've run into a similar issue, if those pages' URLs have either a trailing "rss" or a trailing "feed", try removing them from the URL, and then reading the page that the resulting URL points at.

 

Since this might help with future troubleshooting, I'll mention that, on the shorter version of the above URL example, I found a link called "Subscribe to RSS feed".  Links with that text typically point at RSS feeds, so they're not likely to be readable as web pages.

 

Oh, and if https://fictional.libsyn.com is a podcast site you visit, then you probably already know this, but each podcast title is a level 2 heading, and the only way I was able to get the podcasts to play, using NVDA, was to use Shift+Enter on the play buttons.

 

So the issue you described with NVDA and certain web browsers, may be due to how certain browsers behave when they try to recognize and process an RSS feed.

 

Hope this was helpful and neither too technical nor not technical enough.

 

Scott

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Louise Pfau via groups.io
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2020 1:47 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft Edge Internet Explorer mode conflict with NVDA

 

Hi.  I didn't want to send a long list of urls to the list.  I've placed an example below my name.  I should note that Google Chrome creates the same xml error, although it doesn't have Internet Explorer mode.

Thanks,

Louise

Fictional: https://fictional.libsyn.com/rss


Louise Pfau
 

Hi.  I was able to use Internet Explorer to read the feed correctly, as well as the other ones that use xml.  I didn't know if Internet Explorer would still work after its end-of-life date.  I'll try removing the trailing text like "rss" or "feed" as suggested in an earlier message in this thread.  A couple of the websites I use don't date the podcast episodes on the regular page, so I like the feeds in those cases.

Thanks,

Louise


Gene
 

Programs in general work after they are no longer supported. Some people still use XP. Some people still use Office 2007. No longer supported means the program is no longer updated, and in the case of a program where security updates are issued, such updates aren't issued either.

It isn't a question in the case of Internet Explorer of whether it will continue to work. When it is unsupported, and I think that will occur in about two years, it won't receive security updates. Therefore, it will become increasingly vulnerable to attacks. It is already vulnerable now even with security updates for various reasons and, as is being seen, increasing numbers of web sites won't work with it over time.

But you can still use it on pages that you think are safe enough to risk doing so if it works significantly better on such pages. With most pages, using Internet Explorer will confer no benefit.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Louise Pfau
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2020 11:05 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft Edge Internet Explorer mode conflict with NVDA

Hi. I was able to use Internet Explorer to read the feed correctly, as well as the other ones that use xml. I didn't know if Internet Explorer would still work after its end-of-life date. I'll try removing the trailing text like "rss" or "feed" as suggested in an earlier message in this thread. A couple of the websites I use don't date the podcast episodes on the regular page, so I like the feeds in those cases.

Thanks,

Louise


Scott Salzman
 

I don't have a solution, but I think I have an explanation for what is happening "under the hood", when different browsers treat RSS feeds differently. 

 

HTML (HyperText Markup Language) evolved along with web browsers for the specific purpose of coding web pages so that they can be read in various ways, including via screen readers or visually.  XML (Extensible Markup Language) is a generic markup language and is mostly used to store data, and to transmit that data, like when you follow a link to an RSS feed.  Since XML is a generic markup language, in order to present an XML document in a way that's convenient to read, it has to be used with an XSLT stylesheet (Extensible Stylesheet Language Transformations).  XSLT stylesheets are used to transform XML files into other formats, like into HTML for example, which would make them easier and more efficient to read.  So, you could imagine an XSLT stylesheet that would take all those tags or fields in an RSS feed, and map them to things like headings, links, etc.  That could be a good reading experience.

 

When you read an XML file, like an RSS feed, in Firefox, Firefox appears to apply a very basic XSLT stylesheet to it.  So when I read the Fictional RSS feed in Firefox, some of the XML tags get transformed into buttons, and I can navigate with some very basic efficiency using NVDA.  But I wouldn't say that this gives the RSS feed much of a structure that I can easily understand.

 

When you read an XML file in Chrome, Chrome doesn't appear to apply any XSLT stylesheet to it, which would explain why reading an RSS feed using Chrome is like reading a plain text file, with no real structure that a screen reader like NVDA can use.  I don't have Internet Explorer on my laptop, but if you have a better reading experience with it than with Chrome, then it's almost certain that Internet Explorer is also applying an XSLT stylesheet to XML files.

 

Unfortunately, I don't know how to view, modify, or install XSLT stylesheets in web browsers, but maybe this will give someone an idea about how to improve the experience of reading an XML file directly in a web browser.

 

I hope at least the explanation was helpful in some way.

 

Scott

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Louise Pfau via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2020 12:05 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft Edge Internet Explorer mode conflict with NVDA

 

Hi.  I was able to use Internet Explorer to read the feed correctly, as well as the other ones that use xml.  I didn't know if Internet Explorer would still work after its end-of-life date.  I'll try removing the trailing text like "rss" or "feed" as suggested in an earlier message in this thread.  A couple of the websites I use don't date the podcast episodes on the regular page, so I like the feeds in those cases.

Thanks,

Louise