Topics

Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

Jason White
 

Modern browsers are much more carefully designed to be secure (for example, with the multi-process architecture of chrome).


So far as I can recall, Internet Explorer has always had a reputation for security vulnerabilities. It also does not support modern Web standards - another reason why the web is moving on, leaving IE behind.


Needless to say, I don't use Internet Explorer. When I'm on Windows, it's mostly Chrome at the moment.

On 2/9/19 4:53 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
That is though mainly because they have not bothered to actually bring it up to date. They want everyone to get Windows 10 and use Edge.
On the other hand a lot of the  things in IE have been clunky for some time, so most people I know use Firefox, Water-fox or Chrome most of the time.

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Vogel" <@britechguy>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2019 11:50 PM
Subject: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer


Article that came out today in The Telegraph newspaper in the UK:

Stop using Internet Explorer, warns Microsoft's own security chief ( https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2019/02/08/stop-using-internet-explorer-warns-microsofts-security-chief/ )

If that doesn't convince people that the shelf life of IE is now expired, nothing will.
--

Brian *-* Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763

*A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.*

~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back





molly the blind tech lover
 

One time a long time ago when I was using internet explorer this terrible virus popped up. It was talking and it scared me. Obviously I didn't click on it. I've never used internet explorer since then.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jason White via Groups.Io
Sent: Saturday, February 9, 2019 5:05 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

Modern browsers are much more carefully designed to be secure (for example, with the multi-process architecture of chrome).


So far as I can recall, Internet Explorer has always had a reputation
for security vulnerabilities. It also does not support modern Web
standards - another reason why the web is moving on, leaving IE behind.


Needless to say, I don't use Internet Explorer. When I'm on Windows,
it's mostly Chrome at the moment.


On 2/9/19 4:53 AM, Brian's Mail list account via Groups.Io wrote:
That is though mainly because they have not bothered to actually bring
it up to date. They want everyone to get Windows 10 and use Edge.
On the other hand a lot of the things in IE have been clunky for some
time, so most people I know use Firefox, Water-fox or Chrome most of
the time.

Brian

bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Vogel" <@britechguy>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2019 11:50 PM
Subject: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using
Internet Explorer


Article that came out today in The Telegraph newspaper in the UK:

Stop using Internet Explorer, warns Microsoft's own security chief (
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2019/02/08/stop-using-internet-explorer-warns-microsofts-security-chief/
)

If that doesn't convince people that the shelf life of IE is now
expired, nothing will.
--

Brian *-* Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763

*A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the
need for illusion is deep.*

~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back






Laurie Mehta
 

When you use the alt key are you getting the menus?
Have you tried toggling the F11 key?
-LM
--------------------------------------------

On Sat, 2/9/19, MAX <max@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Date: Saturday, February 9, 2019, 1:58 PM

#yiv3394914628
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#yiv3394914628 OK.  Here is a list of everything
I see in the fire fox open menu.                Sine
into synk.              Content
blocking standard.              New
window.              New
private  window.              Restore
previous session.              Zoom
100%             
Edit.             
Library             
Add-ons.             
Options.             
Customize.              Open
file.              Save
page as.             
Print.              Find in
this page.             
More.              Web
developer.             
Help.              Exit
exit fire fox.  I see nothing there that seems
related to bookmarks.  Find in this page seems to be on
the right track for searching bookmarks but it searches the
current page as you might expect.  73 (Regards).  Max K 4 O D S.  I've Never Lost the
Wonder.  Antique Electronics Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/    From: nvda@nvda.groups.io
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of JM Casey
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2019 12:55
PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own
Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet
Explorer
 Not only is it not an “easter
egg”, but it’s one of the choices right there in the
menu bar that’s at the top of the screen in every version
of the programme.
 From: nvda@nvda.groups.io
<nvda@nvda.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Gene
Sent:
February 9, 2019 1:07 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own
Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet
Explorer
 I'm sorry you misinterpreted
my comment.  I'm saying that you assumed you
couldn't manage book marks.  Instead of assuming, if
you ask here or use some sort of documentation or
instructional material, you will save yourself time and
trouble, perhaps a lot.  I'm speaking in general,
concerning programs and Windows. It
isn't an easter egg.  There is nothing hidden about
this.  It is common to have context menus in various
structures of a program. I
don't know how sighted people learn this.  I learned it
because, whenever I want to see how to do something more
easily or where there appears to be no way, if I am in a
list or a menu, I look through the context menu. 
 Gene----- Original Message
-----From: MAX
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2019 11:46
AMTo: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own
Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet
Explorer
 Hi
Gene.
 You have been mostly helpful to me
in the past so I’ll be civil to you.  If you understand
how I work with a computer and screen reader maybe you’ll
be a little more understanding. 
 I
have some vision and a magnifying glass mounted in glasses
frames so I can use it hands free.  It helped me get
through the university of Florida E E program, 35 years of
employment, and it still serves me in retirement.   Using
this magnifier I can see the contents of a circle about ½
inch in diameter.  I can see icons and the contents of
menus.  If I have more than 3 or 4 words to read I turn the
job over to a screen reader.  Most makers of screen readers
assume that people are totally sighted or totally blind with
nobody between.  I think the statistics of blind and
visually impaired say just the opposite.  I am aware that
nvda developers have acknowledged this through the mouse
tracking feature.  I have it turned on and use it all the
time.  The play audio coordinates when mouse moves would be
useful to me if the tones were not so loud.  I couldn’t
find a volume control that would effect only the tones. 
Sorry for the digression. 
 Now to the current problem.  I
have spent a lot of time visually looking through the menu
in fire fox and have never seen the one that is invoked by
alt B.  How do the fully sighted know about this Easter
egg?  Now that I know this secret I will use it regularly
to manage my bookmarks.  Furthermore When I have the
bookmarks open nvda reads each line of the menu but makes no
distinction between direct links and folders.  A fully
sighted person can see the menus that pop up on the right
side of the list of bookmarks but nvda makes no announcement
of folder.
 You wrote of a search bookmarks
feature.  I haven’t visually seen  that one in the menu
either.  How does it work? 
 
 73
(Regards).
 Max K 4 O D S.
 I've Never Lost the
Wonder.
 Antique Electronics Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/
 
 From: nvda@nvda.groups.io
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io]
On Behalf Of Gene
Sent:
Friday, February 08, 2019 11:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own
Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet
Explorer
 What do you mean by the management
is almost nonexistent?  You can move bookmarks around in
Firefox.  I assume you can in Chrome as well.  Instead of
assuming something isn't available or doesn't exist,
ask here or get some sort of documentation or tutorial. 
You'll save yourself a lot of
trouble. Open the bookmarks menu with alt
b.Move to a bookmark in Firefox. 
Open the context menu.  Down arrow to cut.  Press
enter.Then move to where you want the
bookmark to be.  Open the context menu and find paste. 
Press enter.The bookmark has been
moved.However, I almost never move or
organize bookmarks in Firefox because of the very good
search for bookmarks feature.  If you are interested,
I'll describe it. Gene----- Original Message
-----From: MAX
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2019 10:01
PMTo: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own
Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet
Explorer
 The management of favorites in
chrome and Firefox is almost nonexistent.  I use explorer
to update and manage my favorites file.   Why can’t
programmers leave things alone. Especially things that
work.
 
 73 (Regards).
 Max K 4 O D S.
 I've Never Lost the
Wonder.
 Antique Electronics Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/
 
 From: nvda@nvda.groups.io
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io]
On Behalf Of Gene
Sent:
Friday, February 08, 2019 8:39 PM
To:
nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own
Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet
Explorer
 You may not find ways that work as
well to use those sites.  You may continue using Internet
Explorer with them.  It’s the browser you use as the main
browser that is the issue, not the browser you use for
occasional accessibility purposes with this or that site. 
 Gene----- Original Message
-----From: Rosemarie ChavarrFrom:
nvda@nvda.groups.io
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io]
On Behalf Of Clarissa Mitchell
Sent: Friday,
February 8, 2019 5:10 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own
Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

I hardly use IE anymore at
all. For me, it's either Chrome or Firefox.
There were one or two site-specific functions I
still had to use IE for because of one thing or another, but
I'm going to find a way to access those sites with
Chrome, which is my main browser. I'm still working on
that. I haven't used IE as my main browser in ages. I
don't understand why people are even still using that
browser; it's outdated and, at least on my more recent
computers, slow as a snail! To me, there's really not
that much difference in using one of the other browsers,
from a screen reader standpoint anyway. You can still use a
lot of the same navigation commands. I don't know about
Edge; I haven't used it much, but as far as I can tell,
Chrome and Firefox work great with NVDA.

On 2/8/19, Brian Vogel <@britechguy>
wrote:
> Article that came out today in
The Telegraph newspaper in the UK:
>
>           Stop using Internet
Explorer, warns Microsoft's own security
> chief (
> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2019/02/08/stop-using-internet-
>
explorer-warns-microsofts-security-chief/
> )
>
> If that doesn't convince people that
the shelf life of IE is now
> expired,
nothing will.
> --
>
> Brian *-* Windows 10
Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763
>
> *A great deal of
intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the
> need for illusion is deep.*
>
>           ~
Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back
>
>
>
>

 

On Sat, Feb 9, 2019 at 04:58 PM, MAX wrote:
I see nothing there that seems related to bookmarks.
And, apparently, couldn't bother to read through the topic before posting this.  I already answered your questions about 7 minutes earlier, with a lot more detail as well.

Think of where books reside . . .
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 

MAX <max@...>
 

/The links you sent were helpful.  You can criticize  me for not knowing certain things but just wait till you get to be my age.  You’ll understand then.  I’m not used to using web wide search engines to find information about a specific program.  Apparently it works better than searching within the program’s own help system. 

 

73 (Regards).

 

Max K 4 O D S.

 

I've Never Lost the Wonder.

 

Antique Electronics Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2019 1:32 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

On Sat, Feb 9, 2019 at 01:55 PM, JM Casey wrote:

Not only is it not an “easter egg”, but it’s one of the choices right there in the menu bar that’s at the top of the screen in every version of the programme.

I may have turned it off, but I no longer have the Bookmarks toolbar on either Firefox or Chrome because I find them a waste of space.

It is, however, a given that any web browser has a bookmarking mechanism, and with the exception of IE (and maybe Edge) every one of them uses the terminology, bookmarks.

I am sighted, and I've been using web browsers since they first came into existence, and I have no recollection about how I came to know about favorites/bookmarks at this juncture.  But once I knew they were a standard feature of any web browser, a quick web search on the browser name and the word "bookmarks" returns more documentation on how to use them for that browser than you will ever be able to plow through (or would want to).  For example:

                    https://duckduckgo.com/?q=chrome+bookmarks

                    https://duckduckgo.com/?q=firefox+bookmarks

                    https://duckduckgo.com/?q=opera+bookmarks

                    https://duckduckgo.com/?q=waterfox+bookmarks 

and so on and so on and so on.

I'm sorry, but anyone who has been using the internet for decades, regardless of whether they can see or not, should know how to do a simple web search for information this basic (and significantly less basic).   This is an essential skill that I cannot fathom anyone who browses the web not having learned how to do, and early.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 

MAX <max@...>
 

I would never have thought of finding bookmarks under library.  I must admit that my method of working does complicate things for me.  If I had not hovered the mouse over the three vertical lines with a slanted line next to them I would never have known that this symbol means library.  All these cute little symbols make it hard for someone who has been using words for 30 years and suddenly someone decides that words are right out and symbols are in.  They probably have meaning to those who thought them up but a few lines that look like modern art don’t necessarily have meaning to everyone.

 

 

73 (Regards).

 

Max K 4 O D S.

 

I've Never Lost the Wonder.

 

Antique Electronics Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2019 3:51 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

In Firefox, Bookmarks can be found under the Library category from the main menu button or via the Firefox conventional menu, which can be invoked by hitting ALT.  Bookmarks is one of the primary entries, and its shortcut is ALT+B.

CTRL+SHIFT+B shows all bookmarks in the Bookmark Manager (which has the dialog title, Library - this is my favorite access method, much like File Explorer)

CTRL+D bookmarks the page you're currently viewing.

CTRL+SHIFT+D bookmarks all open tabs
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 

Gene
 

I'm not sure what you are describing.  If you press alt and right arrow through the menu titles, you should find a book marks menu.  If you don't, I'm not sure why but perhaps maximizing the program would show it. 
 
Have you created any book marks with the word help as part of the title?  If you search for the word help, the list will show any bookmark with the letters help in it, whether those letters occur at the beginning, middle, or end, anywhere in the string of characters. 
 
It sounds to me as though you may be trying to search the help system instead of bookmarks but I can't tell just what you are doing.
 

Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: MAX
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2019 3:31 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

Hi Gene.

 

I called it up the way you told me.  Obviously the bookmarks aren’t secret but they must be called something else in the menu because there is nothing called bookmarks in the Firefox open menu.  I did find this time that if I down arrow through the list nvda does announce sub menu on items marked with a folder icon.  I tried to find out on my own how to search for something in the bookmarks.  I selected help and typed search in bookmarks.  The list of topics seemed only tangentially  related to my question.  That has been my experience with help files in general ever since I started using a PC.  It seems I don’t type the correct words to bring up the correct help file.  So please tell me how to search the bookmarks beginning at the beginning.

 

 

73 (Regards).

 

Max K 4 O D S.

 

I've Never Lost the Wonder.

 

Antique Electronics Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2019 12:12 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

As far as folder, I don't know how you are opening book marks.  If you open them the way I described, I think it presents a structure like that in Internet Explorer.  But as I said, and I'll add a bit here, if you want to find a bookmark and you remember a word or phrase that won't be repeated at all or much in other bookmarks, you can use the search bookmarks feature.  You can type, for example, rk times or rk and the letters ti to find new york times bookmarks.  I'll explain the feature more if you want to know. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: MAX

Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2019 11:46 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

Hi Gene.

 

You have been mostly helpful to me in the past so I’ll be civil to you.  If you understand how I work with a computer and screen reader maybe you’ll be a little more understanding. 

 

I have some vision and a magnifying glass mounted in glasses frames so I can use it hands free.  It helped me get through the university of Florida E E program, 35 years of employment, and it still serves me in retirement.   Using this magnifier I can see the contents of a circle about ½ inch in diameter.  I can see icons and the contents of menus.  If I have more than 3 or 4 words to read I turn the job over to a screen reader.  Most makers of screen readers assume that people are totally sighted or totally blind with nobody between.  I think the statistics of blind and visually impaired say just the opposite.  I am aware that nvda developers have acknowledged this through the mouse tracking feature.  I have it turned on and use it all the time.  The play audio coordinates when mouse moves would be useful to me if the tones were not so loud.  I couldn’t find a volume control that would effect only the tones.  Sorry for the digression. 

 

Now to the current problem.  I have spent a lot of time visually looking through the menu in fire fox and have never seen the one that is invoked by alt B.  How do the fully sighted know about this Easter egg?  Now that I know this secret I will use it regularly to manage my bookmarks.  Furthermore When I have the bookmarks open nvda reads each line of the menu but makes no distinction between direct links and folders.  A fully sighted person can see the menus that pop up on the right side of the list of bookmarks but nvda makes no announcement of folder.

 

You wrote of a search bookmarks feature.  I haven’t visually seen  that one in the menu either.  How does it work? 

 

 

73 (Regards).

 

Max K 4 O D S.

 

I've Never Lost the Wonder.

 

Antique Electronics Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2019 11:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

What do you mean by the management is almost nonexistent?  You can move bookmarks around in Firefox.  I assume you can in Chrome as well.  Instead of assuming something isn't available or doesn't exist, ask here or get some sort of documentation or tutorial.  You'll save yourself a lot of trouble.

 

Open the bookmarks menu with alt b.

Move to a bookmark in Firefox.  Open the context menu.  Down arrow to cut.  Press enter.

Then move to where you want the bookmark to be.  Open the context menu and find paste.  Press enter.

The bookmark has been moved.

However, I almost never move or organize bookmarks in Firefox because of the very good search for bookmarks feature.  If you are interested, I'll describe it.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: MAX

Sent: Friday, February 08, 2019 10:01 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

The management of favorites in chrome and Firefox is almost nonexistent.  I use explorer to update and manage my favorites file.   Why can’t programmers leave things alone. Especially things that work.

 

 

73 (Regards).

 

Max K 4 O D S.

 

I've Never Lost the Wonder.

 

Antique Electronics Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2019 8:39 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

You may not find ways that work as well to use those sites.  You may continue using Internet Explorer with them.  It’s the browser you use as the main browser that is the issue, not the browser you use for occasional accessibility purposes with this or that site. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Rosemarie ChavarrFrom: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Clarissa Mitchell
Sent: Friday, February 8, 2019 5:10 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

I hardly use IE anymore at all. For me, it's either Chrome or Firefox.
There were one or two site-specific functions I still had to use IE for because of one thing or another, but I'm going to find a way to access those sites with Chrome, which is my main browser. I'm still working on that. I haven't used IE as my main browser in ages. I don't understand why people are even still using that browser; it's outdated and, at least on my more recent computers, slow as a snail! To me, there's really not that much difference in using one of the other browsers, from a screen reader standpoint anyway. You can still use a lot of the same navigation commands. I don't know about Edge; I haven't used it much, but as far as I can tell, Chrome and Firefox work great with NVDA.

On 2/8/19, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
> Article that came out today in The Telegraph newspaper in the UK:
>
>           Stop using Internet Explorer, warns Microsoft's own security
> chief (
> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2019/02/08/stop-using-internet-
> explorer-warns-microsofts-security-chief/
> )
>
> If that doesn't convince people that the shelf life of IE is now
> expired, nothing will.
> --
>
> Brian *-* Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763
>
> *A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the
> need for illusion is deep.*
>
>           ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back
>
>
>
>



Ron Canazzi
 

The keystroke to invoke the bookmarks menu in Firefox is alt+ B that is alt + Bravo.


Under this menu, there are the following items.

Show All Bookmarks Ctrl+Shift+B
Bookmark this page ctrl+D
bookmark all tabs

bookmarks toolbar sub menu
other bookmarks
recent bookmarks
Other bookmarks
get bookmark add ons


After these default listings come your bookmarks: folders first followed by individual bookmarks.


To get the whole list of bookmarks you have saved, the keystroke (which has been stated in other messages in this thread) is control + shift + B.


This last keystroke brings up your bookmarks list in a separate browser window with the default items and the folder in a tree view and the bookmarks within each folder in a list view which you access by pressing the tab key once from the tree view.  If you have no folder in your bookmarks list, then the individual bookmarks are in the list view under the bookmarks default folder one tab press from the tree view.


This is about as detailed a description as one can give of just how to access bookmarks in Firefox and how to manipulate them.  I hope this helps.


On 2/9/2019 4:58 PM, MAX wrote:

OK.  Here is a list of everything I see in the fire fox open menu.

 

              Sine into synk.

              Content blocking standard.

              New window.

              New private  window.

              Restore previous session.

              Zoom 100%

              Edit.

              Library

              Add-ons.

              Options.

              Customize.

              Open file.

              Save page as.

              Print.

              Find in this page.

              More.

              Web developer.

              Help.

              Exit exit fire fox.

 

I see nothing there that seems related to bookmarks. 

Find in this page seems to be on the right track for searching bookmarks but it searches the current page as you might expect.

 

73 (Regards).

 

Max K 4 O D S.

 

I've Never Lost the Wonder.

 

Antique Electronics Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of JM Casey
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2019 12:55 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

Not only is it not an “easter egg”, but it’s one of the choices right there in the menu bar that’s at the top of the screen in every version of the programme.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: February 9, 2019 1:07 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

I'm sorry you misinterpreted my comment.  I'm saying that you assumed you couldn't manage book marks.  Instead of assuming, if you ask here or use some sort of documentation or instructional material, you will save yourself time and trouble, perhaps a lot.  I'm speaking in general, concerning programs and Windows.

 

It isn't an easter egg.  There is nothing hidden about this.  It is common to have context menus in various structures of a program.

 

I don't know how sighted people learn this.  I learned it because, whenever I want to see how to do something more easily or where there appears to be no way, if I am in a list or a menu, I look through the context menu. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: MAX

Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2019 11:46 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

Hi Gene.

 

You have been mostly helpful to me in the past so I’ll be civil to you.  If you understand how I work with a computer and screen reader maybe you’ll be a little more understanding. 

 

I have some vision and a magnifying glass mounted in glasses frames so I can use it hands free.  It helped me get through the university of Florida E E program, 35 years of employment, and it still serves me in retirement.   Using this magnifier I can see the contents of a circle about ½ inch in diameter.  I can see icons and the contents of menus.  If I have more than 3 or 4 words to read I turn the job over to a screen reader.  Most makers of screen readers assume that people are totally sighted or totally blind with nobody between.  I think the statistics of blind and visually impaired say just the opposite.  I am aware that nvda developers have acknowledged this through the mouse tracking feature.  I have it turned on and use it all the time.  The play audio coordinates when mouse moves would be useful to me if the tones were not so loud.  I couldn’t find a volume control that would effect only the tones.  Sorry for the digression. 

 

Now to the current problem.  I have spent a lot of time visually looking through the menu in fire fox and have never seen the one that is invoked by alt B.  How do the fully sighted know about this Easter egg?  Now that I know this secret I will use it regularly to manage my bookmarks.  Furthermore When I have the bookmarks open nvda reads each line of the menu but makes no distinction between direct links and folders.  A fully sighted person can see the menus that pop up on the right side of the list of bookmarks but nvda makes no announcement of folder.

 

You wrote of a search bookmarks feature.  I haven’t visually seen  that one in the menu either.  How does it work? 

 

 

73 (Regards).

 

Max K 4 O D S.

 

I've Never Lost the Wonder.

 

Antique Electronics Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2019 11:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

What do you mean by the management is almost nonexistent?  You can move bookmarks around in Firefox.  I assume you can in Chrome as well.  Instead of assuming something isn't available or doesn't exist, ask here or get some sort of documentation or tutorial.  You'll save yourself a lot of trouble.

 

Open the bookmarks menu with alt b.

Move to a bookmark in Firefox.  Open the context menu.  Down arrow to cut.  Press enter.

Then move to where you want the bookmark to be.  Open the context menu and find paste.  Press enter.

The bookmark has been moved.

However, I almost never move or organize bookmarks in Firefox because of the very good search for bookmarks feature.  If you are interested, I'll describe it.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: MAX

Sent: Friday, February 08, 2019 10:01 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

The management of favorites in chrome and Firefox is almost nonexistent.  I use explorer to update and manage my favorites file.   Why can’t programmers leave things alone. Especially things that work.

 

 

73 (Regards).

 

Max K 4 O D S.

 

I've Never Lost the Wonder.

 

Antique Electronics Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2019 8:39 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

You may not find ways that work as well to use those sites.  You may continue using Internet Explorer with them.  It’s the browser you use as the main browser that is the issue, not the browser you use for occasional accessibility purposes with this or that site. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Rosemarie ChavarrFrom: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Clarissa Mitchell
Sent: Friday, February 8, 2019 5:10 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

I hardly use IE anymore at all. For me, it's either Chrome or Firefox.
There were one or two site-specific functions I still had to use IE for because of one thing or another, but I'm going to find a way to access those sites with Chrome, which is my main browser. I'm still working on that. I haven't used IE as my main browser in ages. I don't understand why people are even still using that browser; it's outdated and, at least on my more recent computers, slow as a snail! To me, there's really not that much difference in using one of the other browsers, from a screen reader standpoint anyway. You can still use a lot of the same navigation commands. I don't know about Edge; I haven't used it much, but as far as I can tell, Chrome and Firefox work great with NVDA.

On 2/8/19, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
> Article that came out today in The Telegraph newspaper in the UK:
>
>           Stop using Internet Explorer, warns Microsoft's own security
> chief (
> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2019/02/08/stop-using-internet-
> explorer-warns-microsofts-security-chief/
> )
>
> If that doesn't convince people that the shelf life of IE is now
> expired, nothing will.
> --
>
> Brian *-* Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763
>
> *A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the
> need for illusion is deep.*
>
>           ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back
>
>
>
>


-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"

Gene
 

The menu you see isn't any menu in the main interface and I'm not sure how you are getting to it.  If you press alt and then right arrow and you don't move to five or six menu titles, one of them being book marks, then try maximizing the program.  If that doesn't let you see the menus, I don't know why you are seeing what you are describing.  How are you getting to the menu?
 
Gene

-----Original Message -----
From: MAX
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2019 5:59 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

I would never have thought of finding bookmarks under library.  I must admit that my method of working does complicate things for me.  If I had not hovered the mouse over the three vertical lines with a slanted line next to them I would never have known that this symbol means library.  All these cute little symbols make it hard for someone who has been using words for 30 years and suddenly someone decides that words are right out and symbols are in.  They probably have meaning to those who thought them up but a few lines that look like modern art don’t necessarily have meaning to everyone.

 

 

73 (Regards).

 

Max K 4 O D S.

 

I've Never Lost the Wonder.

 

Antique Electronics Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2019 3:51 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

In Firefox, Bookmarks can be found under the Library category from the main menu button or via the Firefox conventional menu, which can be invoked by hitting ALT.  Bookmarks is one of the primary entries, and its shortcut is ALT+B.

CTRL+SHIFT+B shows all bookmarks in the Bookmark Manager (which has the dialog title, Library - this is my favorite access method, much like File Explorer)

CTRL+D bookmarks the page you're currently viewing.

CTRL+SHIFT+D bookmarks all open tabs
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 

MAX <max@...>
 

Thanks to help from you and others I have figured it out.  I’m not happy with the modern way of doing menus but I know they aren’t going to change it because of that.  The point is moot so let’s close out this branch of the Microsoft’s own etc. thread.   For my part I’m not going to answer any more messages in this thread.  Thank you to all who helped and tried to help.

 

 

73 (Regards).

 

Max K 4 O D S.

 

I've Never Lost the Wonder.

 

Antique Electronics Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2019 6:13 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

I'm not sure what you are describing.  If you press alt and right arrow through the menu titles, you should find a book marks menu.  If you don't, I'm not sure why but perhaps maximizing the program would show it. 

 

Have you created any book marks with the word help as part of the title?  If you search for the word help, the list will show any bookmark with the letters help in it, whether those letters occur at the beginning, middle, or end, anywhere in the string of characters. 

 

It sounds to me as though you may be trying to search the help system instead of bookmarks but I can't tell just what you are doing.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: MAX

Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2019 3:31 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

Hi Gene.

 

I called it up the way you told me.  Obviously the bookmarks aren’t secret but they must be called something else in the menu because there is nothing called bookmarks in the Firefox open menu.  I did find this time that if I down arrow through the list nvda does announce sub menu on items marked with a folder icon.  I tried to find out on my own how to search for something in the bookmarks.  I selected help and typed search in bookmarks.  The list of topics seemed only tangentially  related to my question.  That has been my experience with help files in general ever since I started using a PC.  It seems I don’t type the correct words to bring up the correct help file.  So please tell me how to search the bookmarks beginning at the beginning.

 

 

73 (Regards).

 

Max K 4 O D S.

 

I've Never Lost the Wonder.

 

Antique Electronics Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2019 12:12 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

As far as folder, I don't know how you are opening book marks.  If you open them the way I described, I think it presents a structure like that in Internet Explorer.  But as I said, and I'll add a bit here, if you want to find a bookmark and you remember a word or phrase that won't be repeated at all or much in other bookmarks, you can use the search bookmarks feature.  You can type, for example, rk times or rk and the letters ti to find new york times bookmarks.  I'll explain the feature more if you want to know. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: MAX

Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2019 11:46 AM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

Hi Gene.

 

You have been mostly helpful to me in the past so I’ll be civil to you.  If you understand how I work with a computer and screen reader maybe you’ll be a little more understanding. 

 

I have some vision and a magnifying glass mounted in glasses frames so I can use it hands free.  It helped me get through the university of Florida E E program, 35 years of employment, and it still serves me in retirement.   Using this magnifier I can see the contents of a circle about ½ inch in diameter.  I can see icons and the contents of menus.  If I have more than 3 or 4 words to read I turn the job over to a screen reader.  Most makers of screen readers assume that people are totally sighted or totally blind with nobody between.  I think the statistics of blind and visually impaired say just the opposite.  I am aware that nvda developers have acknowledged this through the mouse tracking feature.  I have it turned on and use it all the time.  The play audio coordinates when mouse moves would be useful to me if the tones were not so loud.  I couldn’t find a volume control that would effect only the tones.  Sorry for the digression. 

 

Now to the current problem.  I have spent a lot of time visually looking through the menu in fire fox and have never seen the one that is invoked by alt B.  How do the fully sighted know about this Easter egg?  Now that I know this secret I will use it regularly to manage my bookmarks.  Furthermore When I have the bookmarks open nvda reads each line of the menu but makes no distinction between direct links and folders.  A fully sighted person can see the menus that pop up on the right side of the list of bookmarks but nvda makes no announcement of folder.

 

You wrote of a search bookmarks feature.  I haven’t visually seen  that one in the menu either.  How does it work? 

 

 

73 (Regards).

 

Max K 4 O D S.

 

I've Never Lost the Wonder.

 

Antique Electronics Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2019 11:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

What do you mean by the management is almost nonexistent?  You can move bookmarks around in Firefox.  I assume you can in Chrome as well.  Instead of assuming something isn't available or doesn't exist, ask here or get some sort of documentation or tutorial.  You'll save yourself a lot of trouble.

 

Open the bookmarks menu with alt b.

Move to a bookmark in Firefox.  Open the context menu.  Down arrow to cut.  Press enter.

Then move to where you want the bookmark to be.  Open the context menu and find paste.  Press enter.

The bookmark has been moved.

However, I almost never move or organize bookmarks in Firefox because of the very good search for bookmarks feature.  If you are interested, I'll describe it.

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: MAX

Sent: Friday, February 08, 2019 10:01 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

The management of favorites in chrome and Firefox is almost nonexistent.  I use explorer to update and manage my favorites file.   Why can’t programmers leave things alone. Especially things that work.

 

 

73 (Regards).

 

Max K 4 O D S.

 

I've Never Lost the Wonder.

 

Antique Electronics Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2019 8:39 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

 

You may not find ways that work as well to use those sites.  You may continue using Internet Explorer with them.  It’s the browser you use as the main browser that is the issue, not the browser you use for occasional accessibility purposes with this or that site. 

 

Gene

----- Original Message -----

From: Rosemarie ChavarrFrom: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Clarissa Mitchell
Sent: Friday, February 8, 2019 5:10 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

I hardly use IE anymore at all. For me, it's either Chrome or Firefox.
There were one or two site-specific functions I still had to use IE for because of one thing or another, but I'm going to find a way to access those sites with Chrome, which is my main browser. I'm still working on that. I haven't used IE as my main browser in ages. I don't understand why people are even still using that browser; it's outdated and, at least on my more recent computers, slow as a snail! To me, there's really not that much difference in using one of the other browsers, from a screen reader standpoint anyway. You can still use a lot of the same navigation commands. I don't know about Edge; I haven't used it much, but as far as I can tell, Chrome and Firefox work great with NVDA.

On 2/8/19, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
> Article that came out today in The Telegraph newspaper in the UK:
>
>           Stop using Internet Explorer, warns Microsoft's own security
> chief (
> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2019/02/08/stop-using-internet-
> explorer-warns-microsofts-security-chief/
> )
>
> If that doesn't convince people that the shelf life of IE is now
> expired, nothing will.
> --
>
> Brian *-* Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763
>
> *A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the
> need for illusion is deep.*
>
>           ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back
>
>
>
>


 

On Sat, Feb 9, 2019 at 06:46 PM, MAX wrote:
I’m not used to using web wide search engines to find information about a specific program.  Apparently it works better than searching within the program’s own help system. 
Some of my dearest friends are over 70 and 80, so the age thing carries no weight with me.

You have, however, hit upon a really valuable piece of information, that deserves reinforcement:  It most often works better to do a web search, using either reasonable keywords or an actual natural question, to get information on specific programs and features.  There are tons of people who've "been where you are now" no matter the you or the where, and a great many have generated tutorials or just descriptions of what they did that will generally be far more helpful than quite a few formal help systems are.

Not that one shouldn't avail oneself of a given program's help, too, but I generally go there second because finding things can be challenging - often times unnecessarily so.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 

JM Casey
 

I was wondering that too, because the menu's name is "bookmarks" -- as in it should actually say that -- it's not a symbol or series of symbols, just a word.

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Laurie Mehta via Groups.Io
Sent: February 9, 2019 5:12 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

When you use the alt key are you getting the menus?
Have you tried toggling the F11 key?
-LM
--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 2/9/19, MAX <max@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Date: Saturday, February 9, 2019, 1:58 PM

#yiv3394914628
#yiv3394914628 --

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#yiv3394914628 OK. Here is a list of everything I see in the fire fox open menu. Sine into synk. Content blocking standard. New window. New private window. Restore previous session. Zoom 100% Edit. Library Add-ons. Options. Customize. Open file. Save page as. Print. Find in this page. More. Web developer. Help. Exit exit fire fox. I see nothing there that seems related to bookmarks. Find in this page seems to be on the right track for searching bookmarks but it searches the current page as you might expect. 73 (Regards). Max K 4 O D S. I've Never Lost the Wonder. Antique Electronics Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/ From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of JM Casey
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2019 12:55 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own
Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer
Not only is it not an “easter
egg”, but it’s one of the choices right there in the menu bar that’s at the top of the screen in every version of the programme.
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io
<nvda@nvda.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Gene
Sent:
February 9, 2019 1:07 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own
Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer
I'm sorry you misinterpreted
my comment. I'm saying that you assumed you couldn't manage book marks. Instead of assuming, if you ask here or use some sort of documentation or instructional material, you will save yourself time and trouble, perhaps a lot. I'm speaking in general, concerning programs and Windows. It isn't an easter egg. There is nothing hidden about this. It is common to have context menus in various structures of a program. I don't know how sighted people learn this. I learned it because, whenever I want to see how to do something more easily or where there appears to be no way, if I am in a list or a menu, I look through the context menu.
Gene----- Original Message
-----From: MAX
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2019 11:46
AMTo: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own
Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer
Hi
Gene.
You have been mostly helpful to me
in the past so I’ll be civil to you. If you understand how I work with a computer and screen reader maybe you’ll be a little more understanding.
I
have some vision and a magnifying glass mounted in glasses frames so I can use it hands free. It helped me get through the university of Florida E E program, 35 years of employment, and it still serves me in retirement. Using this magnifier I can see the contents of a circle about ½ inch in diameter. I can see icons and the contents of menus. If I have more than 3 or 4 words to read I turn the job over to a screen reader. Most makers of screen readers assume that people are totally sighted or totally blind with nobody between. I think the statistics of blind and visually impaired say just the opposite. I am aware that nvda developers have acknowledged this through the mouse tracking feature. I have it turned on and use it all the time. The play audio coordinates when mouse moves would be useful to me if the tones were not so loud. I couldn’t find a volume control that would effect only the tones. Sorry for the digression.
Now to the current problem. I
have spent a lot of time visually looking through the menu in fire fox and have never seen the one that is invoked by alt B. How do the fully sighted know about this Easter egg? Now that I know this secret I will use it regularly to manage my bookmarks. Furthermore When I have the bookmarks open nvda reads each line of the menu but makes no distinction between direct links and folders. A fully sighted person can see the menus that pop up on the right side of the list of bookmarks but nvda makes no announcement of folder.
You wrote of a search bookmarks
feature. I haven’t visually seen that one in the menu either. How does it work?

73
(Regards).
Max K 4 O D S.
I've Never Lost the
Wonder.
Antique Electronics Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io]
On Behalf Of Gene
Sent:
Friday, February 08, 2019 11:21 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own
Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer
What do you mean by the management
is almost nonexistent? You can move bookmarks around in Firefox. I assume you can in Chrome as well. Instead of assuming something isn't available or doesn't exist, ask here or get some sort of documentation or tutorial. You'll save yourself a lot of trouble. Open the bookmarks menu with alt b.Move to a bookmark in Firefox. Open the context menu. Down arrow to cut. Press enter.Then move to where you want the bookmark to be. Open the context menu and find paste. Press enter.The bookmark has been moved.However, I almost never move or organize bookmarks in Firefox because of the very good search for bookmarks feature. If you are interested, I'll describe it. Gene----- Original Message
-----From: MAX
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2019 10:01
PMTo: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own
Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer
The management of favorites in
chrome and Firefox is almost nonexistent. I use explorer to update and manage my favorites file. Why can’t programmers leave things alone. Especially things that work.

73 (Regards).
Max K 4 O D S.
I've Never Lost the
Wonder.
Antique Electronics Site: http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/funwithtubes/

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io]
On Behalf Of Gene
Sent:
Friday, February 08, 2019 8:39 PM
To:
nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own
Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer
You may not find ways that work as
well to use those sites. You may continue using Internet Explorer with them. It’s the browser you use as the main browser that is the issue, not the browser you use for occasional accessibility purposes with this or that site.
Gene----- Original Message
-----From: Rosemarie ChavarrFrom:
nvda@nvda.groups.io
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io]
On Behalf Of Clarissa Mitchell
Sent: Friday,
February 8, 2019 5:10 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own
Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

I hardly use IE anymore at
all. For me, it's either Chrome or Firefox.
There were one or two site-specific functions I still had to use IE for because of one thing or another, but I'm going to find a way to access those sites with Chrome, which is my main browser. I'm still working on that. I haven't used IE as my main browser in ages. I don't understand why people are even still using that browser; it's outdated and, at least on my more recent computers, slow as a snail! To me, there's really not that much difference in using one of the other browsers, from a screen reader standpoint anyway. You can still use a lot of the same navigation commands. I don't know about Edge; I haven't used it much, but as far as I can tell, Chrome and Firefox work great with NVDA.

On 2/8/19, Brian Vogel <@britechguy>
wrote:
> Article that came out today in
The Telegraph newspaper in the UK:
>
> Stop using Internet
Explorer, warns Microsoft's own security > chief ( > https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2019/02/08/stop-using-internet-
>
explorer-warns-microsofts-security-chief/
> )
>
> If that doesn't convince people that
the shelf life of IE is now
> expired,
nothing will.
> --
>
> Brian *-* Windows 10
Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763 > > *A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the > need for illusion is deep.* > > ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back > > > >

 

Well there are books in searching, but you can control your search engine.

putting quotes round the items to search will search spacifically for that item online and nothing else.

You can add plus or minus simbles to search for extra items or not search for items.

Wildcards like * can be used, now there are various books on the net search thing, I forget where they can be gotten.

Your local blind organisation may have courses to teach people how to use computers that are blind.

And sone of those could deal with the net, and searching.

Some universities and other places may have them to and these can be usually free or low cost so I would recomend doing one of those if you want that is.

Search engines can be and have been quite smart for an age now, but they can get something wrong from time to time.

There have been a few massive foulups by google and others.



On 10/02/2019 2:02 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Sat, Feb 9, 2019 at 06:46 PM, MAX wrote:
I’m not used to using web wide search engines to find information about a specific program.  Apparently it works better than searching within the program’s own help system. 
Some of my dearest friends are over 70 and 80, so the age thing carries no weight with me.

You have, however, hit upon a really valuable piece of information, that deserves reinforcement:  It most often works better to do a web search, using either reasonable keywords or an actual natural question, to get information on specific programs and features.  There are tons of people who've "been where you are now" no matter the you or the where, and a great many have generated tutorials or just descriptions of what they did that will generally be far more helpful than quite a few formal help systems are.

Not that one shouldn't avail oneself of a given program's help, too, but I generally go there second because finding things can be challenging - often times unnecessarily so.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 

Gene
 

You can make searching very complicated but it is usually unnecessary.  Its good to know about quotes and using plus or minus if you want to limit a search at times but for most searches, this is unnecessary. 
 
Search engines are consumer products.  They want to make searches effective for those who know nothing about searching using such variables.  If I want to search for something, I usually get good results just by searching for what I want to find, no alterations, no signs added.  For example, if I want to search for information about the book Oliver Twist, if I simply type Oliver twist and if I want to find articles dealing with literary critism, I may type critique or criticism or critic, I'd have to experiment because (I haven't searched for that description so often that I'm sure what might get the best results, I can find all sorts of information.  If I want more general information, I might type Oliver Twist Wikipedia.  Or Oliver Twist Britanica.  Or even just Oliver Twist and nothing else would probably provide a variety of results.
 
If I want to find a song on Youtube, I just type the name of the song followed by Youtube.  I seldom have to do anything else. 
 
Many people are needlessly intimidated by searching.  Keep in mind that we are in a completely different era than in the early days of the Internet.  We are dealing with a consumer product and that as such, it is designed to guess about what people are searching for who know nothing about anything except the most elementary way to search.  That's how consumer products are.  If they can be simplified over time, they will be. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2019 1:44 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Microsoft's Own Security Chief Says: STOP using Internet Explorer

Well there are books in searching, but you can control your search engine.

putting quotes round the items to search will search spacifically for that item online and nothing else.

You can add plus or minus simbles to search for extra items or not search for items.

Wildcards like * can be used, now there are various books on the net search thing, I forget where they can be gotten.

Your local blind organisation may have courses to teach people how to use computers that are blind.

And sone of those could deal with the net, and searching.

Some universities and other places may have them to and these can be usually free or low cost so I would recomend doing one of those if you want that is.

Search engines can be and have been quite smart for an age now, but they can get something wrong from time to time.

There have been a few massive foulups by google and others.



On 10/02/2019 2:02 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Sat, Feb 9, 2019 at 06:46 PM, MAX wrote:
I’m not used to using web wide search engines to find information about a specific program.  Apparently it works better than searching within the program’s own help system. 
Some of my dearest friends are over 70 and 80, so the age thing carries no weight with me.

You have, however, hit upon a really valuable piece of information, that deserves reinforcement:  It most often works better to do a web search, using either reasonable keywords or an actual natural question, to get information on specific programs and features.  There are tons of people who've "been where you are now" no matter the you or the where, and a great many have generated tutorials or just descriptions of what they did that will generally be far more helpful than quite a few formal help systems are.

Not that one shouldn't avail oneself of a given program's help, too, but I generally go there second because finding things can be challenging - often times unnecessarily so.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 

 

On Sun, Feb 10, 2019 at 08:17 AM, Gene wrote:
You can make searching very complicated but it is usually unnecessary.
Yep.  And, like a great many things in life, the best way to learn is by doing.  You eventually perfect a method of generating your search terms that works for you.  Eventually trial and error transitions to "my method."

It's also a zero risk proposition (or very very low) if you're not trying to dig into the dark recesses of the internet.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 

Orlando Enrique Fiol
 

At 05:56 AM 2/9/2019, Clare Page wrote:
Hi!
Firefox certainly works well with NVDA, I've used it 99.9% of the time
for several years now: I switched to it when I had a faulty version of
Internet Explorer, and haven't looked back. I haven't even opened IE
for years: I have Google Chrome as a backup web browser, although I
don't use it very much, but it's worked well with NVDA on the rare
occasions I've used it. Good to still have a choice, even on Windows 7
which I still have, now that IE is dying!
Havingg tried out Firefox,, Chrome, Edge and even Opera, I find myself returning to good old IE because off two important factors for me: favorites organization and system sounds. IE is they only browser I've found where I can assign sounds to all sorts of navigation functions, most importantly, link activation, page loads and f previous/next page movement.. In terms of favorites, Chrome doesn't even allow you to edit the bookmark name, let alone store it in a directory, although it does maintain Internet Explorer directory structures during importation.
FFor the life of me, I can't figure out how to access Chromes notification; I've tried alt+shift+A and alt+A, but neither actually speak the notification area to activate it. Chrome doesn't have as many settings as Internet Explorerr, such as when history is cleared,, and whether SSL is used.
Moreover, I say all this with the caveat that I am far from perfect and may not have discovered features in Chrome or Firefox that I could use effectively. If anyone knows how to edit favorite names, store them in directories and assign system sounds to browser navigations in Chrome, Firefox or Edge, please do enlighten me.
ManBut till then, although I'll always experiment with other browsers, Internet Explorer remains my reliable default.


Orlando Enrique Fiol
Ph.D. in Music Theory
University of Pennsylvania
Professional Pianist/Keyboardist, Percussionist, Arranger, Performer and Pedagogue

 

Em 10/02/2019 21:26, Orlando Enrique Fiol escreveu:
IE is they only browser  I've found where I can assign sounds to all sorts of navigation functions, most importantly, link activation, page loads and f previous/next page movement..
You should try a Firefox add-on called Navigational Sounds, or something like that. Actually, there's certainly more than just 1 add-on to do it to you.
Also you would be amazed how an only add-on allows us customizing things the way we like them.

Cheers,

 

On Sun, Feb 10, 2019 at 06:26 PM, Orlando Enrique Fiol wrote:
Chrome doesn't even allow you to edit the bookmark name,
Oh, puhleeeze.  There isn't a browser in existence that doesn't allow you to set, and later edit your bookmark names.  This is just common sense.

CTRL+SHIFT+O brings up the Chrome Bookmarks Manager and you can easily change the current names assigned.  Bringing up the context menu in Bookmarks Manager when you're sitting on a bookmark gives Edit as the first choice.  You can set the name to anything you wish at creation time right in the edit box presented and it's the first thing you land on.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 

 

With regard to Chrome notifications, that's been discussed on this very group and the information is available in the archives.  To wit:


On 5/14/2018 5:21 PM, Steve Nutt wrote:

Hi,

 

Alt+Shift+A should get you into what Chrome calls Actions, which are the notifications.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep.

          ~ Saul Bellow, To Jerusalem and Back

 

 

Orlando Enrique Fiol
 

At 07:28 PM 2/10/2019, Brian Vogel wrote:
Oh, puhleeeze. There isn't a browser in existence that doesn't allow
you to set, and later edit your bookmark names. This is just common sense.
CTRL+SHIFT+O brings up the Chrome Bookmarks Manager and you can easily
change the current names assigned. Bringing up the context menu in
Bookmarks Manager when you're sitting on a bookmark gives Edit as the
first choice. You can set the name to anything you wish at creation
time right in the edit box presented and it's the first thing you land on.

That's all very good. But I want to edit the bookmark name before I save it, not afterward, since I won't be able to find my bookmark if I don't know what Chrome automatically named it.
Also, I'd like to move all my Internet Explorer favorites in Chrome from the Imported from IE directory to the root of wherever Chrome stores favorites. AI want all my favorites sorted into the directories I assigned them, not grouped by the browser from which they were imported.
Thanks,
Orlando