Topics

More help: Selecting text with the caret without losing selection


Jonathan Milam
 

Hi All,

To revisit this issue, what I am needing to do is to use the System Caret
and be able to select text using the caret itself. With this application,
whenever I select text with caret browsing on in Firefox, I am supposed to
be able to find and select a button called "annotate" that appears when text
is selected. However, when I select text, and use the caret desktop
shortcut key NVDA+Shift+UpArrow, NVDA tells me that the text is selected,
however, if I move away from the selection to search for the button that
should appear, the selection is lost in browse mode. I am not getting any
feedback when in Focus mode. How can I select text with the caret and then
search for the annotate button without losing my selection while in browse
mode? Is that possible?

Originally, I thought object navigation would work here, but Object
navigation isn't actually using the caret when selecting text.

Thanks,
Jonathan

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Tuesday, August 4, 2020 10:18 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Selecting text

I don't know if this works in all browsers that support browse mode. it
does work in some.
I am using movement commands for the desktop keyboard layout.

Be in object review.
Use numpad 4 and 6 by themselves. 4 will move back and 6 will move forward.
You are moving by word. To move by line, use 7 and 9. To move by letter,
use 1 and 3.
When you get to the beginning of what you want to select, issue the command
NVDA f9. Move to the end of what you want to select and issue the command
NVDA f10 quickly. You should hear something indicating that text was
selected. To copy text to the clipboard, issue the command twice quickly,
not once.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Jonathan Milam
Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2020 8:48 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Selecting text



Hi All,



I am testing a web application called “Hypothesis” and need to be able to
select text while in browse mode, separate from the caret. Is there a way
of selecting text with NVDA in one of its object modes so that I can have
the main browser cursor elsewhere?



Thanks,

Jonathan


Gene
 

I'm not at all sure you can do what you want, at least not without a lot of time consuming, frustrating work. First, the command you are using to select text, NVDA shift up arrow doesn't select text. It may read the current line but it doesn't move you through anything. Except for control ak, which selects all text, you must always move through what you are selecting.

As for doing what you want to do, if you turn on caret browsing while in browse mode, you can turn it on later but its probably most convenient then, and then move in browse mode to what you want to select, then turn browse mode off and move with the left and right arrows, you evidently can select what you want. If you want to start selecting at the beginning of the line, moving with home may put you there and you can then use shift right arrow to move and select. But you will hear nothing. Screen-readers are completely unaware of the virtual caret the browser places on the screen. The only way I know to determine what you have selected is to move without any feedback to where you think you want to be from where you are on a line, then use control c to copy what you have selected to the clipboard, then use the NVDA read clipboard command, NVDA key c.

Aside from then finding the button, this method of selecting with no feedback may be so difficult that you will find it not worth it. You can change what you have selected. If, for example, you select a word too far, you can use shift left arrow and move by letter until you have unselected the word. The rest of what you selected will still be. So you can copy to the clipboard, hold shift and either move farther right or farther left. If you move in the opposite direction of what you have selected, what you move through will be unselected and the rest will still be selected.

Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Jonathan Milam
Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2020 9:35 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] More help: Selecting text with the caret without losing selection

Hi All,

To revisit this issue, what I am needing to do is to use the System Caret
and be able to select text using the caret itself. With this application,
whenever I select text with caret browsing on in Firefox, I am supposed to
be able to find and select a button called "annotate" that appears when text
is selected. However, when I select text, and use the caret desktop
shortcut key NVDA+Shift+UpArrow, NVDA tells me that the text is selected,
however, if I move away from the selection to search for the button that
should appear, the selection is lost in browse mode. I am not getting any
feedback when in Focus mode. How can I select text with the caret and then
search for the annotate button without losing my selection while in browse
mode? Is that possible?

Originally, I thought object navigation would work here, but Object
navigation isn't actually using the caret when selecting text.

Thanks,
Jonathan
-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Tuesday, August 4, 2020 10:18 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Selecting text

I don't know if this works in all browsers that support browse mode. it
does work in some.
I am using movement commands for the desktop keyboard layout.

Be in object review.
Use numpad 4 and 6 by themselves. 4 will move back and 6 will move forward.
You are moving by word. To move by line, use 7 and 9. To move by letter,
use 1 and 3.
When you get to the beginning of what you want to select, issue the command
NVDA f9. Move to the end of what you want to select and issue the command
NVDA f10 quickly. You should hear something indicating that text was
selected. To copy text to the clipboard, issue the command twice quickly,
not once.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Jonathan Milam
Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2020 8:48 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Selecting text



Hi All,



I am testing a web application called “Hypothesis” and need to be able to
select text while in browse mode, separate from the caret. Is there a way
of selecting text with NVDA in one of its object modes so that I can have
the main browser cursor elsewhere?



Thanks,

Jonathan


Jonathan Milam
 

Thanks, Gene. Sorry if I wasn't clear. I was actually using
NVDA+Shift+UpArrow to read text that was selected at the caret.

The problem with this web application is that it has a frame that NVDA is
supposed to see to allow navigation in Focus mode. I think the company is
saying that the Caret browsing method allows this navigation, but in fact it
doesn't. It goes back to what you are saying in that Screen-readers are
completely unaware of the virtual caret. I would need to know what I am
selecting so that I can activate the annotate button. This is similar to
making comments on certain strings of text in Google Docs. This is
unfortunately a lost cause unless the vendor actually makes their document
frame a focusable environment.

Jonathan

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2020 11:24 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] More help: Selecting text with the caret without losing
selection

I'm not at all sure you can do what you want, at least not without a lot of
time consuming, frustrating work. First, the command you are using to
select text, NVDA shift up arrow doesn't select text. It may read the
current line but it doesn't move you through anything. Except for control
ak, which selects all text, you must always move through what you are
selecting.

As for doing what you want to do, if you turn on caret browsing while in
browse mode, you can turn it on later but its probably most convenient then,
and then move in browse mode to what you want to select, then turn browse
mode off and move with the left and right arrows, you evidently can select
what you want. If you want to start selecting at the beginning of the line,
moving with home may put you there and you can then use shift right arrow to
move and select. But you will hear nothing. Screen-readers are completely
unaware of the virtual caret the browser places on the screen. The only way
I know to determine what you have selected is to move without any feedback
to where you think you want to be from where you are on a line, then use
control c to copy what you have selected to the clipboard, then use the NVDA
read clipboard command, NVDA key c.

Aside from then finding the button, this method of selecting with no
feedback may be so difficult that you will find it not worth it. You can
change what you have selected. If, for example, you select a word too far,
you can use shift left arrow and move by letter until you have unselected
the word. The rest of what you selected will still be. So you can copy to
the clipboard, hold shift and either move farther right or farther left. If
you move in the opposite direction of what you have selected, what you move
through will be unselected and the rest will still be selected.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Jonathan Milam
Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2020 9:35 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] More help: Selecting text with the caret without losing
selection

Hi All,

To revisit this issue, what I am needing to do is to use the System Caret
and be able to select text using the caret itself. With this application,
whenever I select text with caret browsing on in Firefox, I am supposed to
be able to find and select a button called "annotate" that appears when text
is selected. However, when I select text, and use the caret desktop
shortcut key NVDA+Shift+UpArrow, NVDA tells me that the text is selected,
however, if I move away from the selection to search for the button that
should appear, the selection is lost in browse mode. I am not getting any
feedback when in Focus mode. How can I select text with the caret and then
search for the annotate button without losing my selection while in browse
mode? Is that possible?

Originally, I thought object navigation would work here, but Object
navigation isn't actually using the caret when selecting text.

Thanks,
Jonathan
-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Tuesday, August 4, 2020 10:18 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Selecting text

I don't know if this works in all browsers that support browse mode. it
does work in some.
I am using movement commands for the desktop keyboard layout.

Be in object review.
Use numpad 4 and 6 by themselves. 4 will move back and 6 will move forward.
You are moving by word. To move by line, use 7 and 9. To move by letter,
use 1 and 3.
When you get to the beginning of what you want to select, issue the command
NVDA f9. Move to the end of what you want to select and issue the command
NVDA f10 quickly. You should hear something indicating that text was
selected. To copy text to the clipboard, issue the command twice quickly,
not once.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Jonathan Milam
Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2020 8:48 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Selecting text



Hi All,



I am testing a web application called “Hypothesis” and need to be able to
select text while in browse mode, separate from the caret. Is there a way
of selecting text with NVDA in one of its object modes so that I can have
the main browser cursor elsewhere?



Thanks,

Jonathan


Gene
 

I see that in general, that's what the command does. I've almost never used it and I didn't recall it. But in doing what you are doing, it doesn't work properly. If I am in forms mode and use carret browsing to select text on a web page the NVDA shift up arrow command doesn't read the text. It has something to do with how text is presented to the screen-reader. If I select text with browse mode off, then copy it to the clipboard and use the read clipboard command, the text is read. Going into browse mode again after selecting text with caret browsing doesn't cause the command to work to tell you what you selected. You selected text directly on the web page. When you go back into browse mode, no text is selected in the browse mode buffer, which is where you select text in browse mode.
In other words, browse mode doesn't know anything about text you have selected on the page. it only knows about text you select while in browse mode from the browse mode buffer.
Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Jonathan Milam
Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2020 1:41 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] More help: Selecting text with the caret without losing selection

Thanks, Gene. Sorry if I wasn't clear. I was actually using
NVDA+Shift+UpArrow to read text that was selected at the caret.

The problem with this web application is that it has a frame that NVDA is
supposed to see to allow navigation in Focus mode. I think the company is
saying that the Caret browsing method allows this navigation, but in fact it
doesn't. It goes back to what you are saying in that Screen-readers are
completely unaware of the virtual caret. I would need to know what I am
selecting so that I can activate the annotate button. This is similar to
making comments on certain strings of text in Google Docs. This is
unfortunately a lost cause unless the vendor actually makes their document
frame a focusable environment.

Jonathan

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2020 11:24 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] More help: Selecting text with the caret without losing
selection

I'm not at all sure you can do what you want, at least not without a lot of
time consuming, frustrating work. First, the command you are using to
select text, NVDA shift up arrow doesn't select text. It may read the
current line but it doesn't move you through anything. Except for control
ak, which selects all text, you must always move through what you are
selecting.

As for doing what you want to do, if you turn on caret browsing while in
browse mode, you can turn it on later but its probably most convenient then,
and then move in browse mode to what you want to select, then turn browse
mode off and move with the left and right arrows, you evidently can select
what you want. If you want to start selecting at the beginning of the line,
moving with home may put you there and you can then use shift right arrow to
move and select. But you will hear nothing. Screen-readers are completely
unaware of the virtual caret the browser places on the screen. The only way
I know to determine what you have selected is to move without any feedback
to where you think you want to be from where you are on a line, then use
control c to copy what you have selected to the clipboard, then use the NVDA
read clipboard command, NVDA key c.

Aside from then finding the button, this method of selecting with no
feedback may be so difficult that you will find it not worth it. You can
change what you have selected. If, for example, you select a word too far,
you can use shift left arrow and move by letter until you have unselected
the word. The rest of what you selected will still be. So you can copy to
the clipboard, hold shift and either move farther right or farther left. If
you move in the opposite direction of what you have selected, what you move
through will be unselected and the rest will still be selected.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Jonathan Milam
Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2020 9:35 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] More help: Selecting text with the caret without losing
selection

Hi All,

To revisit this issue, what I am needing to do is to use the System Caret
and be able to select text using the caret itself. With this application,
whenever I select text with caret browsing on in Firefox, I am supposed to
be able to find and select a button called "annotate" that appears when text
is selected. However, when I select text, and use the caret desktop
shortcut key NVDA+Shift+UpArrow, NVDA tells me that the text is selected,
however, if I move away from the selection to search for the button that
should appear, the selection is lost in browse mode. I am not getting any
feedback when in Focus mode. How can I select text with the caret and then
search for the annotate button without losing my selection while in browse
mode? Is that possible?

Originally, I thought object navigation would work here, but Object
navigation isn't actually using the caret when selecting text.

Thanks,
Jonathan
-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Tuesday, August 4, 2020 10:18 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Selecting text

I don't know if this works in all browsers that support browse mode. it
does work in some.
I am using movement commands for the desktop keyboard layout.

Be in object review.
Use numpad 4 and 6 by themselves. 4 will move back and 6 will move forward.
You are moving by word. To move by line, use 7 and 9. To move by letter,
use 1 and 3.
When you get to the beginning of what you want to select, issue the command
NVDA f9. Move to the end of what you want to select and issue the command
NVDA f10 quickly. You should hear something indicating that text was
selected. To copy text to the clipboard, issue the command twice quickly,
not once.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Jonathan Milam
Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2020 8:48 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Selecting text



Hi All,



I am testing a web application called “Hypothesis” and need to be able to
select text while in browse mode, separate from the caret. Is there a way
of selecting text with NVDA in one of its object modes so that I can have
the main browser cursor elsewhere?



Thanks,

Jonathan


Jonathan Milam
 

That's correct, and I think that is where the disconnect is with this
particular application.

Jonathan

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2020 3:02 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] More help: Selecting text with the caret without losing
selection

I see that in general, that's what the command does. I've almost never used
it and I didn't recall it. But in doing what you are doing, it doesn't work
properly. If I am in forms mode and use carret browsing to select text on a
web page the NVDA shift up arrow command doesn't read the text. It has
something to do with how text is presented to the screen-reader. If I
select text with browse mode off, then copy it to the clipboard and use the
read clipboard command, the text is read. Going into browse mode again
after selecting text with caret browsing doesn't cause the command to work
to tell you what you selected. You selected text directly on the web page.
When you go back into browse mode, no text is selected in the browse mode
buffer, which is where you select text in browse mode.
In other words, browse mode doesn't know anything about text you have
selected on the page. it only knows about text you select while in browse
mode from the browse mode buffer.
Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Jonathan Milam
Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2020 1:41 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] More help: Selecting text with the caret without losing
selection

Thanks, Gene. Sorry if I wasn't clear. I was actually using
NVDA+Shift+UpArrow to read text that was selected at the caret.

The problem with this web application is that it has a frame that NVDA is
supposed to see to allow navigation in Focus mode. I think the company is
saying that the Caret browsing method allows this navigation, but in fact it
doesn't. It goes back to what you are saying in that Screen-readers are
completely unaware of the virtual caret. I would need to know what I am
selecting so that I can activate the annotate button. This is similar to
making comments on certain strings of text in Google Docs. This is
unfortunately a lost cause unless the vendor actually makes their document
frame a focusable environment.

Jonathan

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2020 11:24 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] More help: Selecting text with the caret without losing
selection

I'm not at all sure you can do what you want, at least not without a lot of
time consuming, frustrating work. First, the command you are using to
select text, NVDA shift up arrow doesn't select text. It may read the
current line but it doesn't move you through anything. Except for control
ak, which selects all text, you must always move through what you are
selecting.

As for doing what you want to do, if you turn on caret browsing while in
browse mode, you can turn it on later but its probably most convenient then,
and then move in browse mode to what you want to select, then turn browse
mode off and move with the left and right arrows, you evidently can select
what you want. If you want to start selecting at the beginning of the line,
moving with home may put you there and you can then use shift right arrow to
move and select. But you will hear nothing. Screen-readers are completely
unaware of the virtual caret the browser places on the screen. The only way
I know to determine what you have selected is to move without any feedback
to where you think you want to be from where you are on a line, then use
control c to copy what you have selected to the clipboard, then use the NVDA
read clipboard command, NVDA key c.

Aside from then finding the button, this method of selecting with no
feedback may be so difficult that you will find it not worth it. You can
change what you have selected. If, for example, you select a word too far,
you can use shift left arrow and move by letter until you have unselected
the word. The rest of what you selected will still be. So you can copy to
the clipboard, hold shift and either move farther right or farther left. If
you move in the opposite direction of what you have selected, what you move
through will be unselected and the rest will still be selected.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Jonathan Milam
Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2020 9:35 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] More help: Selecting text with the caret without losing
selection

Hi All,

To revisit this issue, what I am needing to do is to use the System Caret
and be able to select text using the caret itself. With this application,
whenever I select text with caret browsing on in Firefox, I am supposed to
be able to find and select a button called "annotate" that appears when text
is selected. However, when I select text, and use the caret desktop
shortcut key NVDA+Shift+UpArrow, NVDA tells me that the text is selected,
however, if I move away from the selection to search for the button that
should appear, the selection is lost in browse mode. I am not getting any
feedback when in Focus mode. How can I select text with the caret and then
search for the annotate button without losing my selection while in browse
mode? Is that possible?

Originally, I thought object navigation would work here, but Object
navigation isn't actually using the caret when selecting text.

Thanks,
Jonathan
-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Tuesday, August 4, 2020 10:18 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Selecting text

I don't know if this works in all browsers that support browse mode. it
does work in some.
I am using movement commands for the desktop keyboard layout.

Be in object review.
Use numpad 4 and 6 by themselves. 4 will move back and 6 will move forward.
You are moving by word. To move by line, use 7 and 9. To move by letter,
use 1 and 3.
When you get to the beginning of what you want to select, issue the command
NVDA f9. Move to the end of what you want to select and issue the command
NVDA f10 quickly. You should hear something indicating that text was
selected. To copy text to the clipboard, issue the command twice quickly,
not once.

Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Jonathan Milam
Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2020 8:48 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] Selecting text



Hi All,



I am testing a web application called “Hypothesis” and need to be able to
select text while in browse mode, separate from the caret. Is there a way
of selecting text with NVDA in one of its object modes so that I can have
the main browser cursor elsewhere?



Thanks,

Jonathan