locked My Wish list, various issues.


David Mellor
 

Dear group,
Here is my current wish list for NVDA. I will try and find the time to
submit some of it through the github page.
Could I ask if others would find any of these useful?


NVDA-tag after a successful search does not speak the control in focus.
Tabbing away then back does correct it.

Starts and ends of lists like email or file lists are not indicated. Rather
the item at the cursor is repeated which can cause confusion in contexts
where repetitions are possible. Perhaps a beep could be used. I don't know
if NVDA is able to detect this.

Apps key in email list in Outlook 2003 to bring up the context menu does not
say anything. I understand older Office apps are no longer supported though.

Win 7 calculator result is often not read automatically.

nvda-cntl-right does not move to the next synth ring setting. Left does move
to the previous.

NVDA f12 for time and date often causes firefox to go into dev console mode.

Text in a link is often not found by an NVDA search on a web page.

Drag and drop on Win 7 start menu often drops in the wrong place.

A common annoyance with VIP browsing through long lists of data is the
continuous repetition of a number of common chars or words on a link. I have
recently waded through a backlog of around 35,000 messages on this group
having got way behind.
Listening to:
Group By: Collapse: Subject: [nvda] need help with XXX
and similar is a lot more time consuming that it needs to be.
Reading the lists of file directories would be another example. The left
side of the list will contain continuous repetition.
Would anyone else think a facility to compact down repeated characters on
successive lines in lists would be useful with some appropriate speech to
indicate the number of chars that were currently in common?
automatically jumping passed a number of lines with a number of words in
common whilst holding shift so they can be selected and deleted would be
useful as well.

The add-ons manager could give a button to check for release notes rather
than inviting us to install the add-on without knowing what has changed.
Also an easy way to track down the developer would be really useful.
It would be good for the main NVDA update dialogue to have a button to read
release notes as well.

I don't need it right now but there have been times in the passed where it
would have been really useful to be able to trigger NVDA commands from a
user configurable menu of commands rather than having to look them up in the
manual. Trying to remember the keystrokes for drag-and-drop would be an
example that comes to mind.

Full context-free version of NVDA-1 help mode to find free keys that can be
assigned would be good.

Allow the NVDA hot key mechanism to be used for the user to fire up specific
applications or find and bring specific applications in to the foreground. I
find the Windows 7 hot keys do not work correctly for me. I'd rather use
NVDA than looking for an accessible third party app.

I often find the NVDA updater errors although the update always seems to
have worked.

In app sleep mode, NVDA shift s, it would be better if the alt-tabbing to
the app still speaks the window title rather than saying nothing. I haven't
tried using an app triggered profile with speech turned off but I suspect
the same thing would happen.

When auto say all when opening a new document like web pages, could it
please be done in a way that causes the cursor to be left in the current
read position when a key is hit to stop the reading.
I always stop the auto read and hit NVDA-down to start it again so that the
cursor will be left in the correct position when I stop it.

I frequently turn off num-lock to use object or screen navigation and forget
to turn it on again. Later I start typing numbers, possibly while on the
phone and don't realise that they are not actually being entered. A timer
that would automatically turn num-lock on again (or off is that is your
default) would be really good.

Best wishes,
David


Carlos
 

Why do people still insist on using Windows 7/XP? And, then complain about lack of support for features that are found in newer versions of NVDA, as well as other software which in newer versions of software included/fixed. At some point the madness of using unsupported software has to stop!

On 10/29/2021 7:42 AM, David Mellor wrote:
Dear group,
Here is my current wish list for NVDA. I will try and find the time to
submit some of it through the github page.
Could I ask if others would find any of these useful?


NVDA-tag after a successful search does not speak the control in focus.
Tabbing away then back does correct it.

Starts and ends of lists like email or file lists are not indicated. Rather
the item at the cursor is repeated which can cause confusion in contexts
where repetitions are possible. Perhaps a beep could be used. I don't know
if NVDA is able to detect this.

Apps key in email list in Outlook 2003 to bring up the context menu does not
say anything. I understand older Office apps are no longer supported though.

Win 7 calculator result is often not read automatically.

nvda-cntl-right does not move to the next synth ring setting. Left does move
to the previous.

NVDA f12 for time and date often causes firefox to go into dev console mode.

Text in a link is often not found by an NVDA search on a web page.

Drag and drop on Win 7 start menu often drops in the wrong place.

A common annoyance with VIP browsing through long lists of data is the
continuous repetition of a number of common chars or words on a link. I have
recently waded through a backlog of around 35,000 messages on this group
having got way behind.
Listening to:
Group By: Collapse: Subject: [nvda] need help with XXX
and similar is a lot more time consuming that it needs to be.
Reading the lists of file directories would be another example. The left
side of the list will contain continuous repetition.
Would anyone else think a facility to compact down repeated characters on
successive lines in lists would be useful with some appropriate speech to
indicate the number of chars that were currently in common?
automatically jumping passed a number of lines with a number of words in
common whilst holding shift so they can be selected and deleted would be
useful as well.

The add-ons manager could give a button to check for release notes rather
than inviting us to install the add-on without knowing what has changed.
Also an easy way to track down the developer would be really useful.
It would be good for the main NVDA update dialogue to have a button to read
release notes as well.

I don't need it right now but there have been times in the passed where it
would have been really useful to be able to trigger NVDA commands from a
user configurable menu of commands rather than having to look them up in the
manual. Trying to remember the keystrokes for drag-and-drop would be an
example that comes to mind.

Full context-free version of NVDA-1 help mode to find free keys that can be
assigned would be good.

Allow the NVDA hot key mechanism to be used for the user to fire up specific
applications or find and bring specific applications in to the foreground. I
find the Windows 7 hot keys do not work correctly for me. I'd rather use
NVDA than looking for an accessible third party app.

I often find the NVDA updater errors although the update always seems to
have worked.

In app sleep mode, NVDA shift s, it would be better if the alt-tabbing to
the app still speaks the window title rather than saying nothing. I haven't
tried using an app triggered profile with speech turned off but I suspect
the same thing would happen.

When auto say all when opening a new document like web pages, could it
please be done in a way that causes the cursor to be left in the current
read position when a key is hit to stop the reading.
I always stop the auto read and hit NVDA-down to start it again so that the
cursor will be left in the correct position when I stop it.

I frequently turn off num-lock to use object or screen navigation and forget
to turn it on again. Later I start typing numbers, possibly while on the
phone and don't realise that they are not actually being entered. A timer
that would automatically turn num-lock on again (or off is that is your
default) would be really good.

Best wishes,
David






Gene
 

NVDA still supports Windows 7.  But it appears to me that many of the things complained of may be quirks on the machine.  If any of the issues discussed are specific to Windows 7, it probably isn’t considered worth developers spending valuable time correcting.  They may bbe annoyances, but I doubt Windows 7 support will last that much longer. 
 
Regarding what may well be quirks, I use Windows 7 and I don’t have the following problems:
Time and date work properly. 
The speech ring works properly.
The cursor moves properly in automatic reading of web pages.
Search not finding text in links may be a quirk.
When I get to the end of the message list in Thunderbird and Windows Live Mail, there is no speech if I press down arrow at the end  of the list.  That is also the case in a list of files and folders. 
 
We don’t know what is being used for a keyboard.  Does that have anything to do with any of these problems?  Some external keyboards use some incompatible codes. 
 
Many of the things discussed are feature requests or requests for changes and I won’t comment on those.
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Carlos
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2021 10:08 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] My Wish list, various issues.
 
Why do people still insist on using Windows 7/XP? And, then complain
about lack of support for features that are found in newer versions of
NVDA, as well as other software which in newer versions of software
included/fixed. At some point the madness of using unsupported software
has to stop!


On 10/29/2021 7:42 AM, David Mellor wrote:
> Dear group,
> Here is my current wish list for NVDA. I will try and find the time to
> submit some of it through the github page.
> Could I ask if others would find any of these useful?
>
>
> NVDA-tag after a successful search does not speak the control in focus.
> Tabbing away then back does correct it.
>
> Starts and ends of lists like email or file lists are not indicated. Rather
> the item at the cursor is repeated which can cause confusion in contexts
> where repetitions are possible. Perhaps a beep could be used. I don't know
> if NVDA is able to detect this.
>
> Apps key in email list in Outlook 2003 to bring up the context menu does not
> say anything. I understand older Office apps are no longer supported though.
>
> Win 7 calculator result is often not read automatically.
>
> nvda-cntl-right does not move to the next synth ring setting. Left does move
> to the previous.
>
> NVDA f12 for time and date often causes firefox to go into dev console mode.
>
> Text in a link is often not found by an NVDA search on a web page.
>
> Drag and drop on Win 7 start menu often drops in the wrong place.
>
> A common annoyance with VIP browsing through long lists of data is the
> continuous repetition of a number of common chars or words on a link. I have
> recently waded through a backlog of around 35,000 messages on this group
> having got way behind.
> Listening to:
> Group By: Collapse:   Subject: [nvda] need help with XXX
> and similar is a lot more time consuming that it needs to be.
> Reading the lists of file directories would be another example. The left
> side of the list will contain continuous repetition.
> Would anyone else think a facility to compact down repeated characters on
> successive lines in lists would be useful with some appropriate speech to
> indicate the number of chars that were currently in common?
> automatically jumping passed a number of lines with a number of words in
> common whilst holding shift so they can be selected and deleted would be
> useful as well.
>
> The add-ons manager could give a button to check for release notes rather
> than inviting us to install the add-on without knowing what has changed.
> Also an easy way to track down the developer would be really useful.
> It would be good for the main NVDA update dialogue to have a button to read
> release notes as well.
>
> I don't need it right now but there have been times in the passed where it
> would have been really useful to be able to trigger NVDA commands from a
> user configurable menu of commands rather than having to look them up in the
> manual. Trying to remember the keystrokes for drag-and-drop would be an
> example that comes to mind.
>
> Full context-free version of NVDA-1 help mode to find free keys that can be
> assigned would be good.
>
> Allow the NVDA hot key mechanism to be used for the user to fire up specific
> applications or find and bring specific applications in to the foreground. I
> find the Windows 7 hot keys do not work correctly for me. I'd rather use
> NVDA than looking for an accessible third party app.
>
> I often find the NVDA updater errors although the update always seems to
> have worked.
>
> In app sleep mode, NVDA shift s, it would be better if the alt-tabbing to
> the app still speaks the window title rather than saying nothing. I haven't
> tried using an app triggered profile with speech turned off but I suspect
> the same thing would happen.
>
> When auto say all when opening a new document like web pages, could it
> please be done in a way that causes the cursor to be left in the current
> read position when a key is hit to stop the reading.
> I always stop the auto read and hit NVDA-down to start it again so that the
> cursor will be left in the correct position when I stop it.
>
> I frequently turn off num-lock to use object or screen navigation and forget
> to turn it on again. Later I start typing numbers, possibly while on the
> phone and don't realise that they are not actually being entered. A timer
> that would automatically turn num-lock on again (or off is that is your
> default) would be really good.
>
> Best wishes,
> David
>
>
>
>
>
>
>





Hope Williamson
 

Perhaps I can provide a bit more understanding on the time issue, but
it's an issue of thoroughness and nothing else. If you use the number
pad for other things, and then forget, and then try to press the insert
+f12 key combination, you end up pressing f12 by itself. This results in
opening up the developer console in Firefox and Chromium-based browsers.
This is easily resolved by pressing f12 again.


David Mellor
 

Thanks for this Hope.
I don't use the numpad insert though. I'm using a full sized USB external
keyboard.
The only time this problem occurs for me is when the machine is heavily
loaded and labouring with a large number of open firefox windows.
There would be a couple of seconds delay after hitting Insert-f12 and then
the dev console appears as if NVDA has missed the keystroke and it's been
passed through to firefox instead.
Now I know I just need to hit f12 to switch back again, that won't be a
hassle anymore.
Thank you,
David


Howard Traxler
 

Carlos, you say
"At some point the madness of using unsupported software has to stop!"

Who says?

On 10/29/2021 10:08 AM, Carlos wrote:
Why do people still insist on using Windows 7/XP? And, then complain about lack of support for features that are found in newer versions of NVDA, as well as other software which in newer versions of software included/fixed. At some point the madness of using unsupported software has to stop!


On 10/29/2021 7:42 AM, David Mellor wrote:
Dear group,
Here is my current wish list for NVDA. I will try and find the time to
submit some of it through the github page.
Could I ask if others would find any of these useful?


NVDA-tag after a successful search does not speak the control in focus.
Tabbing away then back does correct it.

Starts and ends of lists like email or file lists are not indicated. Rather
the item at the cursor is repeated which can cause confusion in contexts
where repetitions are possible. Perhaps a beep could be used. I don't know
if NVDA is able to detect this.

Apps key in email list in Outlook 2003 to bring up the context menu does not
say anything. I understand older Office apps are no longer supported though.

Win 7 calculator result is often not read automatically.

nvda-cntl-right does not move to the next synth ring setting. Left does move
to the previous.

NVDA f12 for time and date often causes firefox to go into dev console mode.

Text in a link is often not found by an NVDA search on a web page.

Drag and drop on Win 7 start menu often drops in the wrong place.

A common annoyance with VIP browsing through long lists of data is the
continuous repetition of a number of common chars or words on a link. I have
recently waded through a backlog of around 35,000 messages on this group
having got way behind.
Listening to:
Group By: Collapse:   Subject: [nvda] need help with XXX
and similar is a lot more time consuming that it needs to be.
Reading the lists of file directories would be another example. The left
side of the list will contain continuous repetition.
Would anyone else think a facility to compact down repeated characters on
successive lines in lists would be useful with some appropriate speech to
indicate the number of chars that were currently in common?
automatically jumping passed a number of lines with a number of words in
common whilst holding shift so they can be selected and deleted would be
useful as well.

The add-ons manager could give a button to check for release notes rather
than inviting us to install the add-on without knowing what has changed.
Also an easy way to track down the developer would be really useful.
It would be good for the main NVDA update dialogue to have a button to read
release notes as well.

I don't need it right now but there have been times in the passed where it
would have been really useful to be able to trigger NVDA commands from a
user configurable menu of commands rather than having to look them up in the
manual. Trying to remember the keystrokes for drag-and-drop would be an
example that comes to mind.

Full context-free version of NVDA-1 help mode to find free keys that can be
assigned would be good.

Allow the NVDA hot key mechanism to be used for the user to fire up specific
applications or find and bring specific applications in to the foreground. I
find the Windows 7 hot keys do not work correctly for me. I'd rather use
NVDA than looking for an accessible third party app.

I often find the NVDA updater errors although the update always seems to
have worked.

In app sleep mode, NVDA shift s, it would be better if the alt-tabbing to
the app still speaks the window title rather than saying nothing. I haven't
tried using an app triggered profile with speech turned off but I suspect
the same thing would happen.

When auto say all when opening a new document like web pages, could it
please be done in a way that causes the cursor to be left in the current
read position when a key is hit to stop the reading.
I always stop the auto read and hit NVDA-down to start it again so that the
cursor will be left in the correct position when I stop it.

I frequently turn off num-lock to use object or screen navigation and forget
to turn it on again. Later I start typing numbers, possibly while on the
phone and don't realise that they are not actually being entered. A timer
that would automatically turn num-lock on again (or off is that is your
default) would be really good.

Best wishes,
David









David Mellor
 

Thanks Gene,
I have realised that my comment on the cursor not stopping in the correct place after auto-reading is no longer a problem in my current NVDA release. I should have checked that again before posting.
Search not finding text in links is not universal. There are examples here and there  on some web pages  but in most cases it works.
Very many thanks,
 David 


tim
 

That is not a problem for NVDA, but more a win7 and resources. That is how unsupported software gets, it keeps lagging until dead.

On 10/29/2021 12:19 PM, David Mellor wrote:
Thanks for this Hope.
I don't use the numpad insert though. I'm using a full sized USB external
keyboard.
The only time this problem occurs for me is when the machine is heavily
loaded and labouring with a large number of open firefox windows.
There would be a couple of seconds delay after hitting Insert-f12 and then
the dev console appears as if NVDA has missed the keystroke and it's been
passed through to firefox instead.
Now I know I just need to hit f12 to switch back again, that won't be a
hassle anymore.
Thank you,
David






 

On Fri, Oct 29, 2021 at 12:30 PM, Howard Traxler wrote:
Who says?  [in reference to Carlos' comment: "At some point the madness of using unsupported software has to stop!"]  
-
Quite literally anyone with a lick of sense.

In the computing world both hardware and software has a finite shelf life.  And those who continue using either past its time in support gets precisely what they deserve.

If you are going to use a computer, you use an operating system and application software that's in support if you want your life to remain as sane in that arena as it can be.  There are very, very good reasons that computing tools have a finite shelf life, and part of that is the pace of change and the major changes in security needs.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all.

         ~ John F. Kennedy

 


Howard Traxler
 

I agree with all of yous.  It only makes sense to move on.  However, I don't think anyone is gonna come around and hold a gun to my stupid head and force me to do what's good for me.  Sorry folks.  I won't remark further.

Howard

On 10/29/2021 1:40 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Fri, Oct 29, 2021 at 12:30 PM, Howard Traxler wrote:

Who says?  [in reference to Carlos' comment: "At some point the
madness of using unsupported software has to stop!"]
-
Quite literally anyone with a lick of sense.

In the computing world both hardware and software has a finite shelf life.  And those who continue using either past its time in support gets precisely what they deserve.

If you are going to use a computer, you use an operating system and application software that's in support if you want your life to remain as sane in that arena as it can be.  There are very, very good reasons that computing tools have a finite shelf life, and part of that is the pace of change and the major changes in security needs.

--

Brian -Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043

*The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all.*

         ~ John F. Kennedy


 

On Fri, Oct 29, 2021 at 02:46 PM, Howard Traxler wrote:
However, I don't think anyone is gonna come around and hold a gun to my stupid head and force me to do what's good for me.
-
Well, I don't think anyone's going to do that, either.

But given the number of hangers-on that I see on the blind-tech groups, in particular, it bears repeating that you must move on.

It really gets old having people expecting others to support things that have been out of support by their own official makers for years, and in most cases secondary to nothing but resistance to any change.

But when it comes to Windows, web browsers, and Screen Readers, if you expect to have them functioning as you'd like them to, all need to be up to date.  The rate of change in the computing world alone dictates it.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all.

         ~ John F. Kennedy

 


Gene
 

A lot of people run unsupported software that is years old or older without the problem you are describing.  While things like browsers should be kept updated, there is a lot of unsupported software that runs well where security is not a concern. 
 
And browsers such as Firefox, Chrome, Brave and Edhge still support Windows 7.  I don’t know how long they will but they do.
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: tim
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2021 12:06 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] My Wish list, various issues.
 
That is not a problem for NVDA, but more a win7 and resources. That is
how unsupported software gets, it keeps lagging until dead.


On 10/29/2021 12:19 PM, David Mellor wrote:
> Thanks for this Hope.
> I don't use the numpad insert though. I'm using a full sized USB external
> keyboard.
> The only time this problem occurs for me is when the machine is heavily
> loaded and labouring with a large number of open firefox windows.
> There would be a couple of seconds delay  after hitting Insert-f12 and then
> the dev console appears as if NVDA has missed the keystroke and it's been
> passed through to firefox instead.
> Now I know I just need to hit f12 to switch back again, that won't be a
> hassle anymore.
> Thank you,
> David
>
>
>
>
>
>
>





Chris Tromborg
 

What!  Do you mean that I have to give up my Optacon?

 

Chris Tromborg, Ph.D.

Mountain Lion Foundation

Feline Conservation Foundation

Behavioral Enrichment for Captive Animals

Animal Communication, Behavior, & Cognition

Feline Conservation & Biology

1-530-753-2763 Home

1-530-902-2763 Cell

cattromborg@...

www.christromborg.com

 

  

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2021 11:52 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] My Wish list, various issues.

 

On Fri, Oct 29, 2021 at 02:46 PM, Howard Traxler wrote:

However, I don't think anyone is gonna come around and hold a gun to my stupid head and force me to do what's good for me.

-
Well, I don't think anyone's going to do that, either.

But given the number of hangers-on that I see on the blind-tech groups, in particular, it bears repeating that you must move on.

It really gets old having people expecting others to support things that have been out of support by their own official makers for years, and in most cases secondary to nothing but resistance to any change.

But when it comes to Windows, web browsers, and Screen Readers, if you expect to have them functioning as you'd like them to, all need to be up to date.  The rate of change in the computing world alone dictates it.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all.

         ~ John F. Kennedy

 


 

On Fri, Oct 29, 2021 at 09:12 PM, Chris Tromborg wrote:
What!  Do you mean that I have to give up my Optacon?
-
The questions are:  Does it do what you need it to?  Does it need any special care and feeding up through exceptional measures to make it keep doing so?

If the answers are "yes," and "no," respectively, then keep on keepin' on.

That's not what has been under discussion here.  When references are being made to issues with NVDA, and I'd have to presume that means the current version, and things like Outlook 2003 and the Windows 7 calculator, we're out of compliance with one of the group rules about discussion being limited to current versions of the operating systems and software.

The topic has strayed, and not just because of you, I'm guilty too, far away from the purpose of this group.  This topic is now locked.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all.

         ~ John F. Kennedy