Topics

Now available: DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA 2018


 

Well if they are numbered fine I have actually resorted to my media player to do the reading.

Ofcause due to structure daisy book files can be in little bits to.

On 10/02/2018 11:33 a.m., Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:
Hi,


I did find them as mp3 files. I don't have a device like the victor stream
or plex-talk to be able to jump from section to section.




From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph
Lee
Sent: Friday, February 9, 2018 1:23 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Now available: DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA 2018


Hi,

The audio recordings are in mp3 format, which may explain why this isn't
working.

Cheers,

Joseph


From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: Friday, February 9, 2018 1:16 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Now available: DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA 2018


Hi, Joseph,


I'm not able to read the daisy format of the tutorial. Do you have to have a
special player or is this a word document?


Rosemarie




From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Friday, February 9, 2018 9:24 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: [nvda] Now available: DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA 2018


Hi everyone,


Thanks to AccessiDocs project from Pennsylvania Council of the Blind, an
audio DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA 2018 tutorial set is now available
from:

http://www.josephsl.net/files/nvda18/DB-Welcome_to_NVDA_2018-by-Joseph_lee.z
ip


The DAISY book is a bit out of date, but for the most part, it is up to
date.


Also, a UK-based charity named BCAB has offered to distribute this tutorial
set on physical media for a fee.


Enjoy.

Cheers,

Joseph




Rick
 

What I fail to understand is, if you do not have access to software or a
device that supports Daisy format, why you would download the Daisy format
of the tutorial. It's like buying Vinyl records when you do not have a
turntable and only have a CD player. It's just stupid. The tutorial from
Joseph's site is in MP3 format and is great for media players. The Daisy
format is for people with "Daisy players. Period. Choose the format that
works best for your situation.

Rick

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Shaun
Everiss
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2018 5:34 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Now available: DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA 2018

Well if they are numbered fine I have actually resorted to my media player
to do the reading.

Ofcause due to structure daisy book files can be in little bits to.




On 10/02/2018 11:33 a.m., Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:
Hi,



I did find them as mp3 files. I don't have a device like the victor
stream or plex-talk to be able to jump from section to section.







From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Joseph Lee
Sent: Friday, February 9, 2018 1:23 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Now available: DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA
2018



Hi,

The audio recordings are in mp3 format, which may explain why this
isn't working.

Cheers,

Joseph



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: Friday, February 9, 2018 1:16 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Now available: DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA
2018



Hi, Joseph,



I'm not able to read the daisy format of the tutorial. Do you have to
have a special player or is this a word document?



Rosemarie







From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Friday, February 9, 2018 9:24 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: [nvda] Now available: DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA 2018



Hi everyone,



Thanks to AccessiDocs project from Pennsylvania Council of the Blind,
an audio DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA 2018 tutorial set is now
available
from:

http://www.josephsl.net/files/nvda18/DB-Welcome_to_NVDA_2018-by-Joseph
_lee.z
ip



The DAISY book is a bit out of date, but for the most part, it is up
to date.



Also, a UK-based charity named BCAB has offered to distribute this
tutorial set on physical media for a fee.



Enjoy.

Cheers,

Joseph




Dennis L <dennisl1982@...>
 

will a text version be created?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick" <softwarethatworks@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2018 5:56 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Now available: DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA 2018


What I fail to understand is, if you do not have access to software or a
device that supports Daisy format, why you would download the Daisy format
of the tutorial. It's like buying Vinyl records when you do not have a
turntable and only have a CD player. It's just stupid. The tutorial from
Joseph's site is in MP3 format and is great for media players. The Daisy
format is for people with "Daisy players. Period. Choose the format that
works best for your situation.

Rick

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Shaun
Everiss
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2018 5:34 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Now available: DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA 2018

Well if they are numbered fine I have actually resorted to my media player
to do the reading.

Ofcause due to structure daisy book files can be in little bits to.




On 10/02/2018 11:33 a.m., Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:
Hi,



I did find them as mp3 files. I don't have a device like the victor
stream or plex-talk to be able to jump from section to section.







From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Joseph Lee
Sent: Friday, February 9, 2018 1:23 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Now available: DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA
2018



Hi,

The audio recordings are in mp3 format, which may explain why this
isn't working.

Cheers,

Joseph



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: Friday, February 9, 2018 1:16 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Now available: DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA
2018



Hi, Joseph,



I'm not able to read the daisy format of the tutorial. Do you have to
have a special player or is this a word document?



Rosemarie







From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Friday, February 9, 2018 9:24 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: [nvda] Now available: DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA 2018



Hi everyone,



Thanks to AccessiDocs project from Pennsylvania Council of the Blind,
an audio DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA 2018 tutorial set is now
available
from:

http://www.josephsl.net/files/nvda18/DB-Welcome_to_NVDA_2018-by-Joseph
_lee.z
ip



The DAISY book is a bit out of date, but for the most part, it is up
to date.



Also, a UK-based charity named BCAB has offered to distribute this
tutorial set on physical media for a fee.



Enjoy.

Cheers,

Joseph









 

Hi,
The user guide is the text version at the moment, and no, I won't be able to
transcribe the tutorial set on my own. There is an additional, important
condition to be met: the community must demand it. I want to see the
community wanting this; I want to see the community REALLY wanting this to
happen; I want to see the community rise up to do it; I want to get a firm
promise from the community that they'll take care of this with highest of
standards. Yes, I'm setting the bar really high on this for a number of
reasons:
1. Initiated and driven by the community: the era where you can just rely on
one person to do all sorts of things is coming to a close. In fact, we
should have left that era a long time ago. I believe that one way to move
forward is to let the community take care of itself when it is time to do so
(after being nurtured by leaders), hence my condition above regarding text
transcripts. I do know that the community can go above and beyond what I did
and can produce higher quality tutorials (complete with text transcripts),
hence the high quality requirement; but it won't work if the community
doesn't rise up to do this and other huge projects on its own.
2. Passing the torch to the next group of leaders: as noted a few weeks ago,
my active time with the community is slowly coming to a close. I believe
this is a great opportunity to find and teach the next group of leaders, and
one way to do so is giving them something to practice their skills, and
leading a huge project from start to finish is a good exercise. This is one
of the reasons why I don't involve myself a lot with NVDACon planning
recently, because I do know that current organizers can do a much better job
at organizing this gathering. Same could be set about transcriptions:
although some guidance is needed in the beginning, I believe that the
community is more than ready to tackle this from start to finish: producing
a high quality text transcription of the tutorial set.
3. Personal: I carry out some important community duties on top of being a
student and a speech and debate competitor (with trophies under my belt,
including several first place finishes and being qualified to go to national
tournaments). If you thought I am just an NVDA Expert because I can answer
questions with detailed guesses at midnight or seem to possess encyclopedic
knowledge about NVDA source code, I'd like you to sincerely think again,
taking into consideration who I really am: a student volunteer. Given that
academics takes highest of highest of priorities, I dare not go through
another project that'll drain me (this is the biggest regret I have about
producing the audio tutorial set when I should have been taking breaks).
To be blunt (sorry for coming across as too harsh): I usually don't say this
in public, but I believe it must be said before it is too late: an
accomplishment without a spark and a flame is nothing. That is, if you just
wish for things to happen without acting on it, it would have been better to
not wish it in the first place. One of the reasons why I felt burnt out from
this community (especially during tutorial set production) is people's
tendency to ask without acting on that wish, and a persistent attitude that
one must wait for a savior to give guidance without taking the initiative to
think progress and search for things on one's own. And I'm afraid that
either I have contributed to this problem, or that we are not heeding this
and similar criticisms. Thus, before we go any further (such as downloading
the book format one cannot read right now), I sincerely advise you to heed
this criticism for once, because without doing so, we won't see much
progress; I think it would be helpful for us (as a community) to assess what
we're doing, our attitudes, and what we need to do in the future, so that we
can be a much better community: a community where people can answer each
other with more confidence.
Hope this helps. I do know that my post may come across as harsh, and may
not have answered your questions. But I believe that there are more
important matters to think about, more important than text transcription of
Welcome to NVDA 2018 that'll have profound effect on this community and
beyond.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dennis L
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2018 3:33 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Now available: DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA 2018

will a text version be created?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick" <softwarethatworks@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2018 5:56 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Now available: DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA 2018


What I fail to understand is, if you do not have access to software or a
device that supports Daisy format, why you would download the Daisy format
of the tutorial. It's like buying Vinyl records when you do not have a
turntable and only have a CD player. It's just stupid. The tutorial from
Joseph's site is in MP3 format and is great for media players. The Daisy
format is for people with "Daisy players. Period. Choose the format that
works best for your situation.

Rick

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Shaun
Everiss
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2018 5:34 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Now available: DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA 2018

Well if they are numbered fine I have actually resorted to my media player
to do the reading.

Ofcause due to structure daisy book files can be in little bits to.




On 10/02/2018 11:33 a.m., Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:
Hi,



I did find them as mp3 files. I don't have a device like the victor
stream or plex-talk to be able to jump from section to section.







From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Joseph Lee
Sent: Friday, February 9, 2018 1:23 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Now available: DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA
2018



Hi,

The audio recordings are in mp3 format, which may explain why this
isn't working.

Cheers,

Joseph



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: Friday, February 9, 2018 1:16 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Now available: DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA
2018



Hi, Joseph,



I'm not able to read the daisy format of the tutorial. Do you have to
have a special player or is this a word document?



Rosemarie







From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Friday, February 9, 2018 9:24 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: [nvda] Now available: DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA 2018



Hi everyone,



Thanks to AccessiDocs project from Pennsylvania Council of the Blind,
an audio DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA 2018 tutorial set is now
available
from:

http://www.josephsl.net/files/nvda18/DB-Welcome_to_NVDA_2018-by-Joseph
_lee.z
ip



The DAISY book is a bit out of date, but for the most part, it is up
to date.



Also, a UK-based charity named BCAB has offered to distribute this
tutorial set on physical media for a fee.



Enjoy.

Cheers,

Joseph










ely.r@...
 

Joseph,
I fully support your view on this. As NVDA largely supports those of us who
are blind or visually impaired, The your audio version makes the Tutorial in
MP3 available to the widest user profile. I can't imagine the time you put
into the production. I hope that others know that you didn't just sit down
and start recording off the top of your head. The material is far too well
organized and your examples to well selected and described to not have taken
you untold hours of pre-production.
A text version would allow one to cut and paste a personal set of reminders,
but in no way, should that fall on you. I can also understand that you would
not be comfortable with less than an exact accurate copy of your work.
Though you did not copyright the Tutorial, which you might have elected to
do. Nor did you offer to sell it, though I, for one, would have gladly paid.


I suggest to this group that volunteers could use this forum to create a
free transcription Service, divide up the tutorial with each person taking
on sections to produce in a common text format. Others might serve as an
editorial board to proof and finalize the text version to be submitted to
you for approval.

When I was a grad student, I barely had time to keep up with my studies. I
would never had time to do what you do for NVDA and for this list.


Rick

Dr. Rick Ely
TVI, Vision Consultant
451 Rocky Hill Road
Florence, MA 01062
&413() 727-3038

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph
Lee
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2018 7:15 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Now available: DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA 2018

Hi,
The user guide is the text version at the moment, and no, I won't be able to
transcribe the tutorial set on my own. There is an additional, important
condition to be met: the community must demand it. I want to see the
community wanting this; I want to see the community REALLY wanting this to
happen; I want to see the community rise up to do it; I want to get a firm
promise from the community that they'll take care of this with highest of
standards. Yes, I'm setting the bar really high on this for a number of
reasons:
1. Initiated and driven by the community: the era where you can just rely on
one person to do all sorts of things is coming to a close. In fact, we
should have left that era a long time ago. I believe that one way to move
forward is to let the community take care of itself when it is time to do so
(after being nurtured by leaders), hence my condition above regarding text
transcripts. I do know that the community can go above and beyond what I did
and can produce higher quality tutorials (complete with text transcripts),
hence the high quality requirement; but it won't work if the community
doesn't rise up to do this and other huge projects on its own.
2. Passing the torch to the next group of leaders: as noted a few weeks ago,
my active time with the community is slowly coming to a close. I believe
this is a great opportunity to find and teach the next group of leaders, and
one way to do so is giving them something to practice their skills, and
leading a huge project from start to finish is a good exercise. This is one
of the reasons why I don't involve myself a lot with NVDACon planning
recently, because I do know that current organizers can do a much better job
at organizing this gathering. Same could be set about transcriptions:
although some guidance is needed in the beginning, I believe that the
community is more than ready to tackle this from start to finish: producing
a high quality text transcription of the tutorial set.
3. Personal: I carry out some important community duties on top of being a
student and a speech and debate competitor (with trophies under my belt,
including several first place finishes and being qualified to go to national
tournaments). If you thought I am just an NVDA Expert because I can answer
questions with detailed guesses at midnight or seem to possess encyclopedic
knowledge about NVDA source code, I'd like you to sincerely think again,
taking into consideration who I really am: a student volunteer. Given that
academics takes highest of highest of priorities, I dare not go through
another project that'll drain me (this is the biggest regret I have about
producing the audio tutorial set when I should have been taking breaks).
To be blunt (sorry for coming across as too harsh): I usually don't say this
in public, but I believe it must be said before it is too late: an
accomplishment without a spark and a flame is nothing. That is, if you just
wish for things to happen without acting on it, it would have been better to
not wish it in the first place. One of the reasons why I felt burnt out from
this community (especially during tutorial set production) is people's
tendency to ask without acting on that wish, and a persistent attitude that
one must wait for a savior to give guidance without taking the initiative to
think progress and search for things on one's own. And I'm afraid that
either I have contributed to this problem, or that we are not heeding this
and similar criticisms. Thus, before we go any further (such as downloading
the book format one cannot read right now), I sincerely advise you to heed
this criticism for once, because without doing so, we won't see much
progress; I think it would be helpful for us (as a community) to assess what
we're doing, our attitudes, and what we need to do in the future, so that we
can be a much better community: a community where people can answer each
other with more confidence.
Hope this helps. I do know that my post may come across as harsh, and may
not have answered your questions. But I believe that there are more
important matters to think about, more important than text transcription of
Welcome to NVDA 2018 that'll have profound effect on this community and
beyond.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dennis L
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2018 3:33 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Now available: DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA 2018

will a text version be created?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick" <softwarethatworks@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2018 5:56 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] Now available: DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA 2018


What I fail to understand is, if you do not have access to software or a
device that supports Daisy format, why you would download the Daisy format
of the tutorial. It's like buying Vinyl records when you do not have a
turntable and only have a CD player. It's just stupid. The tutorial from
Joseph's site is in MP3 format and is great for media players. The Daisy
format is for people with "Daisy players. Period. Choose the format that
works best for your situation.

Rick

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Shaun
Everiss
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2018 5:34 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Now available: DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA 2018

Well if they are numbered fine I have actually resorted to my media player
to do the reading.

Ofcause due to structure daisy book files can be in little bits to.




On 10/02/2018 11:33 a.m., Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:
Hi,



I did find them as mp3 files. I don't have a device like the victor
stream or plex-talk to be able to jump from section to section.







From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of
Joseph Lee
Sent: Friday, February 9, 2018 1:23 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Now available: DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA
2018



Hi,

The audio recordings are in mp3 format, which may explain why this
isn't working.

Cheers,

Joseph



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: Friday, February 9, 2018 1:16 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [nvda] Now available: DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA
2018



Hi, Joseph,



I'm not able to read the daisy format of the tutorial. Do you have to
have a special player or is this a word document?



Rosemarie







From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
[mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Friday, February 9, 2018 9:24 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: [nvda] Now available: DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA 2018



Hi everyone,



Thanks to AccessiDocs project from Pennsylvania Council of the Blind,
an audio DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA 2018 tutorial set is now
available
from:

http://www.josephsl.net/files/nvda18/DB-Welcome_to_NVDA_2018-by-Joseph
_lee.z
ip



The DAISY book is a bit out of date, but for the most part, it is up
to date.



Also, a UK-based charity named BCAB has offered to distribute this
tutorial set on physical media for a fee.



Enjoy.

Cheers,

Joseph










David Moore
 

Hi Joseph!

I totally agree with what you are saying. People get so used to one person doing everything, then their expectations for that one person get far too high. If we want a written version of the tutorial, then let us start working on it. I am so grateful and happy with the audio version. I am afraid that this NVDA group, and all the demands will cause you to have to leave altogether. We sure do not want that. It is always a few people having to do it all, even in my church. That is too bad, that people just sit back and wait for someone else to do what they want, instead of doing it themselves. I am so sorry, Joseph, that people rely on you too much.

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: ely.r@...
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2018 8:20 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Now available: DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA 2018

 

Joseph,

I fully support your view on this. As NVDA largely supports those of us who

are blind or visually impaired, The your audio version makes the Tutorial in

MP3 available to the widest user profile. I can't imagine the time you put

into the production. I hope that others know that you didn't just sit down

and start recording off the top of your head. The material is far too well

organized and your examples to well selected and described to not have taken

you untold hours of pre-production.

A text version would allow one to cut and paste a personal set of reminders,

but in no way, should that fall on you. I can also understand that you would

not be comfortable with less than an exact accurate copy of your work.

Though you did not copyright the Tutorial, which you might have elected to

do. Nor did you offer to sell it, though I, for one, would have gladly paid.

 

 

I suggest to this group that volunteers could use this forum to create a

free transcription Service, divide up the tutorial with each person taking

on sections to produce in a common text format. Others might serve as an

editorial board to proof and finalize the text version to be submitted to

you for approval.

 

When I was a grad student, I barely had time to keep up with my studies. I

would never had time to do what you do for NVDA and for this list.

 

 

Rick

 

Dr. Rick Ely

TVI, Vision Consultant

451 Rocky Hill Road

Florence, MA 01062

&413()  727-3038

 

-----Original Message-----

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph

Lee

Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2018 7:15 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] Now available: DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA 2018

 

Hi,

The user guide is the text version at the moment, and no, I won't be able to

transcribe the tutorial set on my own. There is an additional, important

condition to be met: the community must demand it. I want to see the

community wanting this; I want to see the community REALLY wanting this to

happen; I want to see the community rise up to do it; I want to get a firm

promise from the community that they'll take care of this with highest of

standards. Yes, I'm setting the bar really high on this for a number of

reasons:

1. Initiated and driven by the community: the era where you can just rely on

one person to do all sorts of things is coming to a close. In fact, we

should have left that era a long time ago. I believe that one way to move

forward is to let the community take care of itself when it is time to do so

(after being nurtured by leaders), hence my condition above regarding text

transcripts. I do know that the community can go above and beyond what I did

and can produce higher quality tutorials (complete with text transcripts),

hence the high quality requirement; but it won't work if the community

doesn't rise up to do this and other huge projects on its own.

2. Passing the torch to the next group of leaders: as noted a few weeks ago,

my active time with the community is slowly coming to a close. I believe

this is a great opportunity to find and teach the next group of leaders, and

one way to do so is giving them something to practice their skills, and

leading a huge project from start to finish is a good exercise. This is one

of the reasons why I don't involve myself a lot with NVDACon planning

recently, because I do know that current organizers can do a much better job

at organizing this gathering. Same could be set about transcriptions:

although some guidance is needed in the beginning, I believe that the

community is more than ready to tackle this from start to finish: producing

a high quality text transcription of the tutorial set.

3. Personal: I carry out some important community duties on top of being a

student and a speech and debate competitor (with trophies under my belt,

including several first place finishes and being qualified to go to national

tournaments). If you thought I am just an NVDA Expert because I can answer

questions with detailed guesses at midnight or seem to possess encyclopedic

knowledge about NVDA source code, I'd like you to sincerely think again,

taking into consideration who I really am: a student volunteer. Given that

academics takes highest of highest of priorities, I dare not go through

another project that'll drain me (this is the biggest regret I have about

producing the audio tutorial set when I should have been taking breaks).

To be blunt (sorry for coming across as too harsh): I usually don't say this

in public, but I believe it must be said before it is too late: an

accomplishment without a spark and a flame is nothing. That is, if you just

wish for things to happen without acting on it, it would have been better to

not wish it in the first place. One of the reasons why I felt burnt out from

this community (especially during tutorial set production) is people's

tendency to ask without acting on that wish, and a persistent attitude that

one must wait for a savior to give guidance without taking the initiative to

think progress and search for things on one's own. And I'm afraid that

either I have contributed to this problem, or that we are not heeding this

and similar criticisms. Thus, before we go any further (such as downloading

the book format one cannot read right now), I sincerely advise you to heed

this criticism for once, because without doing so, we won't see much

progress; I think it would be helpful for us (as a community) to assess what

we're doing, our attitudes, and what we need to do in the future, so that we

can be a much better community: a community where people can answer each

other with more confidence.

Hope this helps. I do know that my post may come across as harsh, and may

not have answered your questions. But I believe that there are more

important matters to think about, more important than text transcription of

Welcome to NVDA 2018 that'll have profound effect on this community and

beyond.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

-----Original Message-----

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dennis L

Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2018 3:33 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] Now available: DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA 2018

 

will a text version be created?

----- Original Message -----

From: "Rick" <softwarethatworks@...>

To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>

Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2018 5:56 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Now available: DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA 2018

 

 

> What I fail to understand is, if you do not have access to software or a

> device that supports Daisy format, why you would download the Daisy format

> of the tutorial. It's like buying Vinyl records when you do not have a

> turntable and only have a CD player. It's just stupid. The tutorial from

> Joseph's site is in MP3 format and is great for media players. The Daisy

> format is for people with "Daisy players. Period. Choose the format that

> works best for your situation.

> Rick

> -----Original Message-----

> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Shaun

> Everiss

> Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2018 5:34 PM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] Now available: DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA 2018

> Well if they are numbered fine I have actually resorted to my media player

> to do the reading.

> Ofcause due to structure daisy book files can be in little bits to.

> On 10/02/2018 11:33 a.m., Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:

>> Hi,

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> I did find them as mp3 files. I don't have a device like the victor

>> stream or plex-talk to be able to jump from section to section.

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of

>> Joseph Lee

>> Sent: Friday, February 9, 2018 1:23 PM

>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Now available: DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA

>> 2018

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> Hi,

>> 

>> The audio recordings are in mp3 format, which may explain why this

>> isn't working.

>> 

>> Cheers,

>> 

>> Joseph

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

>> [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Rosemarie Chavarria

>> Sent: Friday, February 9, 2018 1:16 PM

>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Now available: DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA

>> 2018

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> Hi, Joseph,

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> I'm not able to read the daisy format of the tutorial. Do you have to

>> have a special player or is this a word document?

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> Rosemarie

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

>> [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee

>> Sent: Friday, February 9, 2018 9:24 AM

>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

>> Subject: [nvda] Now available: DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA 2018

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> Hi everyone,

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> Thanks to AccessiDocs project from Pennsylvania Council of the Blind,

>> an audio DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA 2018 tutorial set is now

>> available

>> from:

>> 

>> http://www.josephsl.net/files/nvda18/DB-Welcome_to_NVDA_2018-by-Joseph

>> _lee.z

>> ip

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> The DAISY book is a bit out of date, but for the most part, it is up

>> to date.

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> Also, a UK-based charity named BCAB has offered to distribute this

>> tutorial set on physical media for a fee.

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> Enjoy.

>> 

>> Cheers,

>> 

>> Joseph

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


 

Hi,

As for people relying on me: I do understand this to some extent, but I do know that, at some point, people will need to look for things on their own. As a famous proverb says, “teach a man to fish, and he’ll feed himself all his life” or something similar. As much as I love serving as an expert, I do know that, eventually, there will be someone much greater than I who can do much better things than some of us did. At the moment, besides studying, my job in the community seems to be raising up the next group of experts, who can take NVDA and the community to the next level. There are some projects I’m personally leading at the moment (such as teaching some of you the internals of NVDA), but I do know that we do have experts who are more than ready to showcase their skills – it’s a matter of identifying these people and giving them proper training experience.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of David Moore
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2018 5:36 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Now available: DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA 2018

 

Hi Joseph!

I totally agree with what you are saying. People get so used to one person doing everything, then their expectations for that one person get far too high. If we want a written version of the tutorial, then let us start working on it. I am so grateful and happy with the audio version. I am afraid that this NVDA group, and all the demands will cause you to have to leave altogether. We sure do not want that. It is always a few people having to do it all, even in my church. That is too bad, that people just sit back and wait for someone else to do what they want, instead of doing it themselves. I am so sorry, Joseph, that people rely on you too much.

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: ely.r@...
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2018 8:20 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Now available: DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA 2018

 

Joseph,

I fully support your view on this. As NVDA largely supports those of us who

are blind or visually impaired, The your audio version makes the Tutorial in

MP3 available to the widest user profile. I can't imagine the time you put

into the production. I hope that others know that you didn't just sit down

and start recording off the top of your head. The material is far too well

organized and your examples to well selected and described to not have taken

you untold hours of pre-production.

A text version would allow one to cut and paste a personal set of reminders,

but in no way, should that fall on you. I can also understand that you would

not be comfortable with less than an exact accurate copy of your work.

Though you did not copyright the Tutorial, which you might have elected to

do. Nor did you offer to sell it, though I, for one, would have gladly paid.

 

 

I suggest to this group that volunteers could use this forum to create a

free transcription Service, divide up the tutorial with each person taking

on sections to produce in a common text format. Others might serve as an

editorial board to proof and finalize the text version to be submitted to

you for approval.

 

When I was a grad student, I barely had time to keep up with my studies. I

would never had time to do what you do for NVDA and for this list.

 

 

Rick

 

Dr. Rick Ely

TVI, Vision Consultant

451 Rocky Hill Road

Florence, MA 01062

&413()  727-3038

 

-----Original Message-----

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph

Lee

Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2018 7:15 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] Now available: DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA 2018

 

Hi,

The user guide is the text version at the moment, and no, I won't be able to

transcribe the tutorial set on my own. There is an additional, important

condition to be met: the community must demand it. I want to see the

community wanting this; I want to see the community REALLY wanting this to

happen; I want to see the community rise up to do it; I want to get a firm

promise from the community that they'll take care of this with highest of

standards. Yes, I'm setting the bar really high on this for a number of

reasons:

1. Initiated and driven by the community: the era where you can just rely on

one person to do all sorts of things is coming to a close. In fact, we

should have left that era a long time ago. I believe that one way to move

forward is to let the community take care of itself when it is time to do so

(after being nurtured by leaders), hence my condition above regarding text

transcripts. I do know that the community can go above and beyond what I did

and can produce higher quality tutorials (complete with text transcripts),

hence the high quality requirement; but it won't work if the community

doesn't rise up to do this and other huge projects on its own.

2. Passing the torch to the next group of leaders: as noted a few weeks ago,

my active time with the community is slowly coming to a close. I believe

this is a great opportunity to find and teach the next group of leaders, and

one way to do so is giving them something to practice their skills, and

leading a huge project from start to finish is a good exercise. This is one

of the reasons why I don't involve myself a lot with NVDACon planning

recently, because I do know that current organizers can do a much better job

at organizing this gathering. Same could be set about transcriptions:

although some guidance is needed in the beginning, I believe that the

community is more than ready to tackle this from start to finish: producing

a high quality text transcription of the tutorial set.

3. Personal: I carry out some important community duties on top of being a

student and a speech and debate competitor (with trophies under my belt,

including several first place finishes and being qualified to go to national

tournaments). If you thought I am just an NVDA Expert because I can answer

questions with detailed guesses at midnight or seem to possess encyclopedic

knowledge about NVDA source code, I'd like you to sincerely think again,

taking into consideration who I really am: a student volunteer. Given that

academics takes highest of highest of priorities, I dare not go through

another project that'll drain me (this is the biggest regret I have about

producing the audio tutorial set when I should have been taking breaks).

To be blunt (sorry for coming across as too harsh): I usually don't say this

in public, but I believe it must be said before it is too late: an

accomplishment without a spark and a flame is nothing. That is, if you just

wish for things to happen without acting on it, it would have been better to

not wish it in the first place. One of the reasons why I felt burnt out from

this community (especially during tutorial set production) is people's

tendency to ask without acting on that wish, and a persistent attitude that

one must wait for a savior to give guidance without taking the initiative to

think progress and search for things on one's own. And I'm afraid that

either I have contributed to this problem, or that we are not heeding this

and similar criticisms. Thus, before we go any further (such as downloading

the book format one cannot read right now), I sincerely advise you to heed

this criticism for once, because without doing so, we won't see much

progress; I think it would be helpful for us (as a community) to assess what

we're doing, our attitudes, and what we need to do in the future, so that we

can be a much better community: a community where people can answer each

other with more confidence.

Hope this helps. I do know that my post may come across as harsh, and may

not have answered your questions. But I believe that there are more

important matters to think about, more important than text transcription of

Welcome to NVDA 2018 that'll have profound effect on this community and

beyond.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

-----Original Message-----

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dennis L

Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2018 3:33 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] Now available: DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA 2018

 

will a text version be created?

----- Original Message -----

From: "Rick" <softwarethatworks@...>

To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>

Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2018 5:56 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Now available: DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA 2018

 

 

> What I fail to understand is, if you do not have access to software or a

> device that supports Daisy format, why you would download the Daisy format

> of the tutorial. It's like buying Vinyl records when you do not have a

> turntable and only have a CD player. It's just stupid. The tutorial from

> Joseph's site is in MP3 format and is great for media players. The Daisy

> format is for people with "Daisy players. Period. Choose the format that

> works best for your situation.

> Rick

> -----Original Message-----

> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Shaun

> Everiss

> Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2018 5:34 PM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] Now available: DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA 2018

> Well if they are numbered fine I have actually resorted to my media player

> to do the reading.

> Ofcause due to structure daisy book files can be in little bits to.

> On 10/02/2018 11:33 a.m., Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:

>> Hi,

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> I did find them as mp3 files. I don't have a device like the victor

>> stream or plex-talk to be able to jump from section to section.

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of

>> Joseph Lee

>> Sent: Friday, February 9, 2018 1:23 PM

>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Now available: DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA

>> 2018

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> Hi,

>> 

>> The audio recordings are in mp3 format, which may explain why this

>> isn't working.

>> 

>> Cheers,

>> 

>> Joseph

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

>> [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Rosemarie Chavarria

>> Sent: Friday, February 9, 2018 1:16 PM

>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Now available: DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA

>> 2018

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> Hi, Joseph,

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> I'm not able to read the daisy format of the tutorial. Do you have to

>> have a special player or is this a word document?

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> Rosemarie

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

>> [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee

>> Sent: Friday, February 9, 2018 9:24 AM

>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

>> Subject: [nvda] Now available: DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA 2018

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> Hi everyone,

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> Thanks to AccessiDocs project from Pennsylvania Council of the Blind,

>> an audio DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA 2018 tutorial set is now

>> available

>> from:

>> 

>> http://www.josephsl.net/files/nvda18/DB-Welcome_to_NVDA_2018-by-Joseph

>> _lee.z

>> ip

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> The DAISY book is a bit out of date, but for the most part, it is up

>> to date.

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> Also, a UK-based charity named BCAB has offered to distribute this

>> tutorial set on physical media for a fee.

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> Enjoy.

>> 

>> Cheers,

>> 

>> Joseph

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Rosemarie Chavarria
 

Hi, Joseph,

 

I agree with the others here. I think trying to do a text tutorial is asking too much. I personally prefer audio tutorials over text. You have enough on your plate with your schooling and everything else you do. Thanks so much for all that you do for us.

 

Rosemarie

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of David Moore
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2018 5:36 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Now available: DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA 2018

 

Hi Joseph!

I totally agree with what you are saying. People get so used to one person doing everything, then their expectations for that one person get far too high. If we want a written version of the tutorial, then let us start working on it. I am so grateful and happy with the audio version. I am afraid that this NVDA group, and all the demands will cause you to have to leave altogether. We sure do not want that. It is always a few people having to do it all, even in my church. That is too bad, that people just sit back and wait for someone else to do what they want, instead of doing it themselves. I am so sorry, Joseph, that people rely on you too much.

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: ely.r@...
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2018 8:20 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Now available: DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA 2018

 

Joseph,

I fully support your view on this. As NVDA largely supports those of us who

are blind or visually impaired, The your audio version makes the Tutorial in

MP3 available to the widest user profile. I can't imagine the time you put

into the production. I hope that others know that you didn't just sit down

and start recording off the top of your head. The material is far too well

organized and your examples to well selected and described to not have taken

you untold hours of pre-production.

A text version would allow one to cut and paste a personal set of reminders,

but in no way, should that fall on you. I can also understand that you would

not be comfortable with less than an exact accurate copy of your work.

Though you did not copyright the Tutorial, which you might have elected to

do. Nor did you offer to sell it, though I, for one, would have gladly paid.

 

 

I suggest to this group that volunteers could use this forum to create a

free transcription Service, divide up the tutorial with each person taking

on sections to produce in a common text format. Others might serve as an

editorial board to proof and finalize the text version to be submitted to

you for approval.

 

When I was a grad student, I barely had time to keep up with my studies. I

would never had time to do what you do for NVDA and for this list.

 

 

Rick

 

Dr. Rick Ely

TVI, Vision Consultant

451 Rocky Hill Road

Florence, MA 01062

&413()  727-3038

 

-----Original Message-----

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph

Lee

Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2018 7:15 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] Now available: DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA 2018

 

Hi,

The user guide is the text version at the moment, and no, I won't be able to

transcribe the tutorial set on my own. There is an additional, important

condition to be met: the community must demand it. I want to see the

community wanting this; I want to see the community REALLY wanting this to

happen; I want to see the community rise up to do it; I want to get a firm

promise from the community that they'll take care of this with highest of

standards. Yes, I'm setting the bar really high on this for a number of

reasons:

1. Initiated and driven by the community: the era where you can just rely on

one person to do all sorts of things is coming to a close. In fact, we

should have left that era a long time ago. I believe that one way to move

forward is to let the community take care of itself when it is time to do so

(after being nurtured by leaders), hence my condition above regarding text

transcripts. I do know that the community can go above and beyond what I did

and can produce higher quality tutorials (complete with text transcripts),

hence the high quality requirement; but it won't work if the community

doesn't rise up to do this and other huge projects on its own.

2. Passing the torch to the next group of leaders: as noted a few weeks ago,

my active time with the community is slowly coming to a close. I believe

this is a great opportunity to find and teach the next group of leaders, and

one way to do so is giving them something to practice their skills, and

leading a huge project from start to finish is a good exercise. This is one

of the reasons why I don't involve myself a lot with NVDACon planning

recently, because I do know that current organizers can do a much better job

at organizing this gathering. Same could be set about transcriptions:

although some guidance is needed in the beginning, I believe that the

community is more than ready to tackle this from start to finish: producing

a high quality text transcription of the tutorial set.

3. Personal: I carry out some important community duties on top of being a

student and a speech and debate competitor (with trophies under my belt,

including several first place finishes and being qualified to go to national

tournaments). If you thought I am just an NVDA Expert because I can answer

questions with detailed guesses at midnight or seem to possess encyclopedic

knowledge about NVDA source code, I'd like you to sincerely think again,

taking into consideration who I really am: a student volunteer. Given that

academics takes highest of highest of priorities, I dare not go through

another project that'll drain me (this is the biggest regret I have about

producing the audio tutorial set when I should have been taking breaks).

To be blunt (sorry for coming across as too harsh): I usually don't say this

in public, but I believe it must be said before it is too late: an

accomplishment without a spark and a flame is nothing. That is, if you just

wish for things to happen without acting on it, it would have been better to

not wish it in the first place. One of the reasons why I felt burnt out from

this community (especially during tutorial set production) is people's

tendency to ask without acting on that wish, and a persistent attitude that

one must wait for a savior to give guidance without taking the initiative to

think progress and search for things on one's own. And I'm afraid that

either I have contributed to this problem, or that we are not heeding this

and similar criticisms. Thus, before we go any further (such as downloading

the book format one cannot read right now), I sincerely advise you to heed

this criticism for once, because without doing so, we won't see much

progress; I think it would be helpful for us (as a community) to assess what

we're doing, our attitudes, and what we need to do in the future, so that we

can be a much better community: a community where people can answer each

other with more confidence.

Hope this helps. I do know that my post may come across as harsh, and may

not have answered your questions. But I believe that there are more

important matters to think about, more important than text transcription of

Welcome to NVDA 2018 that'll have profound effect on this community and

beyond.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

-----Original Message-----

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dennis L

Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2018 3:33 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] Now available: DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA 2018

 

will a text version be created?

----- Original Message -----

From: "Rick" <softwarethatworks@...>

To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>

Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2018 5:56 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Now available: DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA 2018

 

 

> What I fail to understand is, if you do not have access to software or a

> device that supports Daisy format, why you would download the Daisy format

> of the tutorial. It's like buying Vinyl records when you do not have a

> turntable and only have a CD player. It's just stupid. The tutorial from

> Joseph's site is in MP3 format and is great for media players. The Daisy

> format is for people with "Daisy players. Period. Choose the format that

> works best for your situation.

> Rick

> -----Original Message-----

> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Shaun

> Everiss

> Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2018 5:34 PM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] Now available: DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA 2018

> Well if they are numbered fine I have actually resorted to my media player

> to do the reading.

> Ofcause due to structure daisy book files can be in little bits to.

> On 10/02/2018 11:33 a.m., Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:

>> Hi,

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> I did find them as mp3 files. I don't have a device like the victor

>> stream or plex-talk to be able to jump from section to section.

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of

>> Joseph Lee

>> Sent: Friday, February 9, 2018 1:23 PM

>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Now available: DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA

>> 2018

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> Hi,

>> 

>> The audio recordings are in mp3 format, which may explain why this

>> isn't working.

>> 

>> Cheers,

>> 

>> Joseph

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

>> [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Rosemarie Chavarria

>> Sent: Friday, February 9, 2018 1:16 PM

>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Now available: DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA

>> 2018

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> Hi, Joseph,

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> I'm not able to read the daisy format of the tutorial. Do you have to

>> have a special player or is this a word document?

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> Rosemarie

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

>> [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee

>> Sent: Friday, February 9, 2018 9:24 AM

>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

>> Subject: [nvda] Now available: DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA 2018

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> Hi everyone,

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> Thanks to AccessiDocs project from Pennsylvania Council of the Blind,

>> an audio DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA 2018 tutorial set is now

>> available

>> from:

>> 

>> http://www.josephsl.net/files/nvda18/DB-Welcome_to_NVDA_2018-by-Joseph

>> _lee.z

>> ip

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> The DAISY book is a bit out of date, but for the most part, it is up

>> to date.

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> Also, a UK-based charity named BCAB has offered to distribute this

>> tutorial set on physical media for a fee.

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> Enjoy.

>> 

>> Cheers,

>> 

>> Joseph

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


derek riemer
 

Joseph, don't worry about it. We the community could probably scoop up money to have it professionally transcribed.

On Sat, Feb 10, 2018 at 6:54 PM, Rosemarie Chavarria <knitqueen2007@...> wrote:

Hi, Joseph,

 

I agree with the others here. I think trying to do a text tutorial is asking too much. I personally prefer audio tutorials over text. You have enough on your plate with your schooling and everything else you do. Thanks so much for all that you do for us.

 

Rosemarie

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of David Moore
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2018 5:36 PM


To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Now available: DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA 2018

 

Hi Joseph!

I totally agree with what you are saying. People get so used to one person doing everything, then their expectations for that one person get far too high. If we want a written version of the tutorial, then let us start working on it. I am so grateful and happy with the audio version. I am afraid that this NVDA group, and all the demands will cause you to have to leave altogether. We sure do not want that. It is always a few people having to do it all, even in my church. That is too bad, that people just sit back and wait for someone else to do what they want, instead of doing it themselves. I am so sorry, Joseph, that people rely on you too much.

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: ely.r@...
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2018 8:20 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Now available: DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA 2018

 

Joseph,

I fully support your view on this. As NVDA largely supports those of us who

are blind or visually impaired, The your audio version makes the Tutorial in

MP3 available to the widest user profile. I can't imagine the time you put

into the production. I hope that others know that you didn't just sit down

and start recording off the top of your head. The material is far too well

organized and your examples to well selected and described to not have taken

you untold hours of pre-production.

A text version would allow one to cut and paste a personal set of reminders,

but in no way, should that fall on you. I can also understand that you would

not be comfortable with less than an exact accurate copy of your work.

Though you did not copyright the Tutorial, which you might have elected to

do. Nor did you offer to sell it, though I, for one, would have gladly paid.

 

 

I suggest to this group that volunteers could use this forum to create a

free transcription Service, divide up the tutorial with each person taking

on sections to produce in a common text format. Others might serve as an

editorial board to proof and finalize the text version to be submitted to

you for approval.

 

When I was a grad student, I barely had time to keep up with my studies. I

would never had time to do what you do for NVDA and for this list.

 

 

Rick

 

Dr. Rick Ely

TVI, Vision Consultant

451 Rocky Hill Road

Florence, MA 01062

&413()  727-3038

 

-----Original Message-----

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph

Lee

Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2018 7:15 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] Now available: DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA 2018

 

Hi,

The user guide is the text version at the moment, and no, I won't be able to

transcribe the tutorial set on my own. There is an additional, important

condition to be met: the community must demand it. I want to see the

community wanting this; I want to see the community REALLY wanting this to

happen; I want to see the community rise up to do it; I want to get a firm

promise from the community that they'll take care of this with highest of

standards. Yes, I'm setting the bar really high on this for a number of

reasons:

1. Initiated and driven by the community: the era where you can just rely on

one person to do all sorts of things is coming to a close. In fact, we

should have left that era a long time ago. I believe that one way to move

forward is to let the community take care of itself when it is time to do so

(after being nurtured by leaders), hence my condition above regarding text

transcripts. I do know that the community can go above and beyond what I did

and can produce higher quality tutorials (complete with text transcripts),

hence the high quality requirement; but it won't work if the community

doesn't rise up to do this and other huge projects on its own.

2. Passing the torch to the next group of leaders: as noted a few weeks ago,

my active time with the community is slowly coming to a close. I believe

this is a great opportunity to find and teach the next group of leaders, and

one way to do so is giving them something to practice their skills, and

leading a huge project from start to finish is a good exercise. This is one

of the reasons why I don't involve myself a lot with NVDACon planning

recently, because I do know that current organizers can do a much better job

at organizing this gathering. Same could be set about transcriptions:

although some guidance is needed in the beginning, I believe that the

community is more than ready to tackle this from start to finish: producing

a high quality text transcription of the tutorial set.

3. Personal: I carry out some important community duties on top of being a

student and a speech and debate competitor (with trophies under my belt,

including several first place finishes and being qualified to go to national

tournaments). If you thought I am just an NVDA Expert because I can answer

questions with detailed guesses at midnight or seem to possess encyclopedic

knowledge about NVDA source code, I'd like you to sincerely think again,

taking into consideration who I really am: a student volunteer. Given that

academics takes highest of highest of priorities, I dare not go through

another project that'll drain me (this is the biggest regret I have about

producing the audio tutorial set when I should have been taking breaks).

To be blunt (sorry for coming across as too harsh): I usually don't say this

in public, but I believe it must be said before it is too late: an

accomplishment without a spark and a flame is nothing. That is, if you just

wish for things to happen without acting on it, it would have been better to

not wish it in the first place. One of the reasons why I felt burnt out from

this community (especially during tutorial set production) is people's

tendency to ask without acting on that wish, and a persistent attitude that

one must wait for a savior to give guidance without taking the initiative to

think progress and search for things on one's own. And I'm afraid that

either I have contributed to this problem, or that we are not heeding this

and similar criticisms. Thus, before we go any further (such as downloading

the book format one cannot read right now), I sincerely advise you to heed

this criticism for once, because without doing so, we won't see much

progress; I think it would be helpful for us (as a community) to assess what

we're doing, our attitudes, and what we need to do in the future, so that we

can be a much better community: a community where people can answer each

other with more confidence.

Hope this helps. I do know that my post may come across as harsh, and may

not have answered your questions. But I believe that there are more

important matters to think about, more important than text transcription of

Welcome to NVDA 2018 that'll have profound effect on this community and

beyond.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

-----Original Message-----

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dennis L

Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2018 3:33 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] Now available: DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA 2018

 

will a text version be created?

----- Original Message -----

From: "Rick" <softwarethatworks@...>

To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>

Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2018 5:56 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Now available: DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA 2018

 

 

> What I fail to understand is, if you do not have access to software or a

> device that supports Daisy format, why you would download the Daisy format

> of the tutorial. It's like buying Vinyl records when you do not have a

> turntable and only have a CD player. It's just stupid. The tutorial from

> Joseph's site is in MP3 format and is great for media players. The Daisy

> format is for people with "Daisy players. Period. Choose the format that

> works best for your situation.

> 

> Rick

> 

> -----Original Message-----

> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Shaun

> Everiss

> Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2018 5:34 PM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] Now available: DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA 2018

> 

> Well if they are numbered fine I have actually resorted to my media player

> to do the reading.

> 

> Ofcause due to structure daisy book files can be in little bits to.

> 

> 

> 

> 

> On 10/02/2018 11:33 a.m., Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:

>> Hi,

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> I did find them as mp3 files. I don't have a device like the victor

>> stream or plex-talk to be able to jump from section to section.

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of

>> Joseph Lee

>> Sent: Friday, February 9, 2018 1:23 PM

>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Now available: DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA

>> 2018

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> Hi,

>> 

>> The audio recordings are in mp3 format, which may explain why this

>> isn't working.

>> 

>> Cheers,

>> 

>> Joseph

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

>> [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Rosemarie Chavarria

>> Sent: Friday, February 9, 2018 1:16 PM

>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Now available: DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA

>> 2018

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> Hi, Joseph,

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> I'm not able to read the daisy format of the tutorial. Do you have to

>> have a special player or is this a word document?

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> Rosemarie

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

>> [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee

>> Sent: Friday, February 9, 2018 9:24 AM

>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

>> Subject: [nvda] Now available: DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA 2018

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> Hi everyone,

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> Thanks to AccessiDocs project from Pennsylvania Council of the Blind,

>> an audio DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA 2018 tutorial set is now

>> available

>> from:

>> 

>> http://www.josephsl.net/files/nvda18/DB-Welcome_to_NVDA_2018-by-Joseph

>> _lee.z

>> ip

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> The DAISY book is a bit out of date, but for the most part, it is up

>> to date.

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> Also, a UK-based charity named BCAB has offered to distribute this

>> tutorial set on physical media for a fee.

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> Enjoy.

>> 

>> Cheers,

>> 

>> Joseph

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

>

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 




--

Derek Riemer: Improving the world one byte at a time!

  • University of Colorado Boulder Department of computer science, 4th year undergraduate student.
  • Accessibility enthusiast.
  • Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
  • Open source enthusiast.
  • Skier.

Personal website



Fernando Apan
 

Hi.

All what I can say is that I'm very happy with the Daisy format of this book. If I don't have the way to play this book, I just look for it and that's it.

Thanks joseph for this wonderfull book and congratulations for all what you do for this comunity.

Cheers.


Fernando Apan.




El 10/02/2018 a las 07:35 p.m., David Moore escribió:

Hi Joseph!

I totally agree with what you are saying. People get so used to one person doing everything, then their expectations for that one person get far too high. If we want a written version of the tutorial, then let us start working on it. I am so grateful and happy with the audio version. I am afraid that this NVDA group, and all the demands will cause you to have to leave altogether. We sure do not want that. It is always a few people having to do it all, even in my church. That is too bad, that people just sit back and wait for someone else to do what they want, instead of doing it themselves. I am so sorry, Joseph, that people rely on you too much.

David Moore

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: ely.r@...
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2018 8:20 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] Now available: DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA 2018

 

Joseph,

I fully support your view on this. As NVDA largely supports those of us who

are blind or visually impaired, The your audio version makes the Tutorial in

MP3 available to the widest user profile. I can't imagine the time you put

into the production. I hope that others know that you didn't just sit down

and start recording off the top of your head. The material is far too well

organized and your examples to well selected and described to not have taken

you untold hours of pre-production.

A text version would allow one to cut and paste a personal set of reminders,

but in no way, should that fall on you. I can also understand that you would

not be comfortable with less than an exact accurate copy of your work.

Though you did not copyright the Tutorial, which you might have elected to

do. Nor did you offer to sell it, though I, for one, would have gladly paid.

 

 

I suggest to this group that volunteers could use this forum to create a

free transcription Service, divide up the tutorial with each person taking

on sections to produce in a common text format. Others might serve as an

editorial board to proof and finalize the text version to be submitted to

you for approval.

 

When I was a grad student, I barely had time to keep up with my studies. I

would never had time to do what you do for NVDA and for this list.

 

 

Rick

 

Dr. Rick Ely

TVI, Vision Consultant

451 Rocky Hill Road

Florence, MA 01062

&413()  727-3038

 

-----Original Message-----

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph

Lee

Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2018 7:15 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] Now available: DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA 2018

 

Hi,

The user guide is the text version at the moment, and no, I won't be able to

transcribe the tutorial set on my own. There is an additional, important

condition to be met: the community must demand it. I want to see the

community wanting this; I want to see the community REALLY wanting this to

happen; I want to see the community rise up to do it; I want to get a firm

promise from the community that they'll take care of this with highest of

standards. Yes, I'm setting the bar really high on this for a number of

reasons:

1. Initiated and driven by the community: the era where you can just rely on

one person to do all sorts of things is coming to a close. In fact, we

should have left that era a long time ago. I believe that one way to move

forward is to let the community take care of itself when it is time to do so

(after being nurtured by leaders), hence my condition above regarding text

transcripts. I do know that the community can go above and beyond what I did

and can produce higher quality tutorials (complete with text transcripts),

hence the high quality requirement; but it won't work if the community

doesn't rise up to do this and other huge projects on its own.

2. Passing the torch to the next group of leaders: as noted a few weeks ago,

my active time with the community is slowly coming to a close. I believe

this is a great opportunity to find and teach the next group of leaders, and

one way to do so is giving them something to practice their skills, and

leading a huge project from start to finish is a good exercise. This is one

of the reasons why I don't involve myself a lot with NVDACon planning

recently, because I do know that current organizers can do a much better job

at organizing this gathering. Same could be set about transcriptions:

although some guidance is needed in the beginning, I believe that the

community is more than ready to tackle this from start to finish: producing

a high quality text transcription of the tutorial set.

3. Personal: I carry out some important community duties on top of being a

student and a speech and debate competitor (with trophies under my belt,

including several first place finishes and being qualified to go to national

tournaments). If you thought I am just an NVDA Expert because I can answer

questions with detailed guesses at midnight or seem to possess encyclopedic

knowledge about NVDA source code, I'd like you to sincerely think again,

taking into consideration who I really am: a student volunteer. Given that

academics takes highest of highest of priorities, I dare not go through

another project that'll drain me (this is the biggest regret I have about

producing the audio tutorial set when I should have been taking breaks).

To be blunt (sorry for coming across as too harsh): I usually don't say this

in public, but I believe it must be said before it is too late: an

accomplishment without a spark and a flame is nothing. That is, if you just

wish for things to happen without acting on it, it would have been better to

not wish it in the first place. One of the reasons why I felt burnt out from

this community (especially during tutorial set production) is people's

tendency to ask without acting on that wish, and a persistent attitude that

one must wait for a savior to give guidance without taking the initiative to

think progress and search for things on one's own. And I'm afraid that

either I have contributed to this problem, or that we are not heeding this

and similar criticisms. Thus, before we go any further (such as downloading

the book format one cannot read right now), I sincerely advise you to heed

this criticism for once, because without doing so, we won't see much

progress; I think it would be helpful for us (as a community) to assess what

we're doing, our attitudes, and what we need to do in the future, so that we

can be a much better community: a community where people can answer each

other with more confidence.

Hope this helps. I do know that my post may come across as harsh, and may

not have answered your questions. But I believe that there are more

important matters to think about, more important than text transcription of

Welcome to NVDA 2018 that'll have profound effect on this community and

beyond.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

-----Original Message-----

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dennis L

Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2018 3:33 PM

To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

Subject: Re: [nvda] Now available: DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA 2018

 

will a text version be created?

----- Original Message -----

From: "Rick" <softwarethatworks@...>

To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>

Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2018 5:56 PM

Subject: Re: [nvda] Now available: DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA 2018

 

 

> What I fail to understand is, if you do not have access to software or a

> device that supports Daisy format, why you would download the Daisy format

> of the tutorial. It's like buying Vinyl records when you do not have a

> turntable and only have a CD player. It's just stupid. The tutorial from

> Joseph's site is in MP3 format and is great for media players. The Daisy

> format is for people with "Daisy players. Period. Choose the format that

> works best for your situation.

> Rick

> -----Original Message-----

> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Shaun

> Everiss

> Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2018 5:34 PM

> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [nvda] Now available: DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA 2018

> Well if they are numbered fine I have actually resorted to my media player

> to do the reading.

> Ofcause due to structure daisy book files can be in little bits to.

> On 10/02/2018 11:33 a.m., Rosemarie Chavarria wrote:

>> Hi,

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> I did find them as mp3 files. I don't have a device like the victor

>> stream or plex-talk to be able to jump from section to section.

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of

>> Joseph Lee

>> Sent: Friday, February 9, 2018 1:23 PM

>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io

>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Now available: DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA

>> 2018

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> Hi,

>> 

>> The audio recordings are in mp3 format, which may explain why this

>> isn't working.

>> 

>> Cheers,

>> 

>> Joseph

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

>> [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Rosemarie Chavarria

>> Sent: Friday, February 9, 2018 1:16 PM

>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

>> Subject: Re: [nvda] Now available: DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA

>> 2018

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> Hi, Joseph,

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> I'm not able to read the daisy format of the tutorial. Do you have to

>> have a special player or is this a word document?

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> Rosemarie

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

>> [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee

>> Sent: Friday, February 9, 2018 9:24 AM

>> To: nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>

>> Subject: [nvda] Now available: DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA 2018

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> Hi everyone,

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> Thanks to AccessiDocs project from Pennsylvania Council of the Blind,

>> an audio DAISY version of Welcome to NVDA 2018 tutorial set is now

>> available

>> from:

>> 

>> http://www.josephsl.net/files/nvda18/DB-Welcome_to_NVDA_2018-by-Joseph

>> _lee.z

>> ip

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> The DAISY book is a bit out of date, but for the most part, it is up

>> to date.

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> Also, a UK-based charity named BCAB has offered to distribute this

>> tutorial set on physical media for a fee.

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> Enjoy.

>> 

>> Cheers,

>> 

>> Joseph

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>

>