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NVDA 2023.1 and community add-ons

Joseph Lee
 

Hi all,

Just like 2022, I plan to keep an eye on add-ons compatibility with NVDA 2023.1. The compatibility list can be found at:

Add-ons and backwards incompatible NVDA releases (nvda-project.org)

 

Notes:

  • This thread will be updated whenever add-ons become compatible or authors communicate their intentions.
  • This might be the last year I will do this.

 

As of February 14, 2023, 11% of add-ons listed in community add-ons website are compatible with NVDA 2023.1.

Cheers,

Joseph
Brian's Mail list account
 

I just ran the Alpha snap and saw no red flags on the add ones I have. Obviously, I cannot really tell if there are any subtle incompatibilities, until we get a proper beta or release candidate.
I've not tried them all on Win10 and 11, and probably won't till the new machine is ready to go.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2023 7:08 AM
Subject: [nvda] NVDA 2023.1 and community add-ons


Hi all,

Just like 2022, I plan to keep an eye on add-ons compatibility with NVDA
2023.1. The compatibility list can be found at:

Add-ons and backwards incompatible NVDA releases (nvda-project.org)
<https://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/nvdacompat.en.html>



Notes:

* This thread will be updated whenever add-ons become compatible or
authors communicate their intentions.
* This might be the last year I will do this.



As of February 14, 2023, 11% of add-ons listed in community add-ons website
are compatible with NVDA 2023.1.

Cheers,

Joseph
Brian's Mail list account
 

OK here is where I'm confused then.
The alphas I've been running up until now have all still worked with all my current add ons. The beta, which as I understand it is just the latest alpha in effect, throws up 16 add ons that will not work, indeed most of the ones I use daily. How can this be the case.

Either the code is different to the alpha, or not. If not then the incompatibilities are surely not real and have been introduced by something else.
I'm confused, so maybe others will be as well. I do not really fancy mucking about with 16 manifest files only to find that some subtle code changes made between the latest alpha and the beta have made these incompatible addons really not work.

At the moment, I've pulled out of the beta, and have gone back to a portable Alpha, I may make a portable version of the beta also, but it is very confusing, as logically, I'd have thought that the Alpha tests would be what the add on writers were watching to start work on their updates.
Brian

--
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Sent via blueyonder.(Virgin media)
Please address personal E-mail to:-
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2023 7:08 AM
Subject: [nvda] NVDA 2023.1 and community add-ons


Hi all,

Just like 2022, I plan to keep an eye on add-ons compatibility with NVDA
2023.1. The compatibility list can be found at:

Add-ons and backwards incompatible NVDA releases (nvda-project.org)
<https://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/nvdacompat.en.html>



Notes:

* This thread will be updated whenever add-ons become compatible or
authors communicate their intentions.
* This might be the last year I will do this.



As of February 14, 2023, 11% of add-ons listed in community add-ons website
are compatible with NVDA 2023.1.

Cheers,

Joseph
Quentin Christensen
 

Brian,

Looks like you found the beta by your last message, but just for anyone else, see the release announcement here: https://www.nvaccess.org/post/nvda-2023-1beta1/

In terms of detecting incompatible add-ons, NVDA looks at the version the add-on has declared compatibility with and compares it to the version it needs add-ons to be compatible with.  That number has obviously changed (from 2022.1 to 2023.1) in the beta - I'm not sure when it gets changed in the alpha, but maybe once the first beta of the .1 release comes out? - but in any case, that's how it decides, not by checking exactly what the add-on does.  So, that an add-on passes or fails that check on startup purely means that, nothing more.  Which is why it is important for add-on authors to check their add-ons at this time of year, against what breaking changes are coming up in .1 (and in the beta now) before simply updating the file to say it's fine.  It's also why "simply updating the manifest", doesn't stop an add-on from running - but also provides no assurance that everything will work fine.

So, as usual with the yearly .1 beta, if you need add-ons and can't live without them - then either wait until the ones you need are updated before updating, or download the beta and test it as a temporary or portable copy, rather than your daily driver.

On Tue, Feb 14, 2023 at 7:09 PM Brian's Mail list account via groups.io <bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:

OK here is where I'm confused then.
 The alphas I've been running up until now have all still worked with all my
current add ons. The beta, which as I understand it is just the latest alpha
in effect, throws up 16 add ons that will not work, indeed most of the ones
I use daily. How can this be the case.

 Either the code is different to the alpha, or not. If not then the
incompatibilities are surely not real and have been introduced by something
else.
 I'm confused, so maybe others will be as well. I do not really fancy
mucking about with 16 manifest files only to find that some subtle code
changes made between the latest alpha and the beta have made these
incompatible addons really not work.

 At the moment, I've pulled out of the beta, and have gone back to a
portable Alpha, I may make a portable version of the beta also, but it is
very confusing, as logically, I'd have thought that the Alpha tests would be
what the add on writers were watching to start work on their updates.
 Brian

--
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Sent via blueyonder.(Virgin media)
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2023 7:08 AM
Subject: [nvda] NVDA 2023.1 and community add-ons


Hi all,

Just like 2022, I plan to keep an eye on add-ons compatibility with NVDA
2023.1. The compatibility list can be found at:

Add-ons and backwards incompatible NVDA releases (nvda-project.org)
<https://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/nvdacompat.en.html>



Notes:

* This thread will be updated whenever add-ons become compatible or
authors communicate their intentions.
* This might be the last year I will do this.



As of February 14, 2023, 11% of add-ons listed in community add-ons website
are compatible with NVDA 2023.1.

Cheers,

Joseph














--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager
Simone Dal Maso
 

Hello,
I did what any serious programmer hates, but any user who doesn't want to wait wants to check: change the manifest.ini without doing a single check. :-)
Good news, many addons will work! That's better. At least, the ones I use, see instant translate, braille extender, Nao, golden cursor,and other and other.
Obviously, ony maintainer of each addon should ensure compatibility.
But it is very probably that for most of them there will be no work to do.
Thank you very much for the beta!

Il 14/02/2023 09:38, Quentin Christensen ha scritto:
Brian,
Looks like you found the beta by your last message, but just for anyone else, see the release announcement here: https://www.nvaccess.org/post/nvda-2023-1beta1/ <https://www.nvaccess.org/post/nvda-2023-1beta1/>
In terms of detecting incompatible add-ons, NVDA looks at the version the add-on has declared compatibility with and compares it to the version it needs add-ons to be compatible with.  That number has obviously changed (from 2022.1 to 2023.1) in the beta - I'm not sure when it gets changed in the alpha, but maybe once the first beta of the .1 release comes out? - but in any case, that's how it decides, not by checking exactly what the add-on does.  So, that an add-on passes or fails that check on startup purely means that, nothing more.  Which is why it is important for add-on authors to check their add-ons at this time of year, against what breaking changes are coming up in .1 (and in the beta now) before simply updating the file to say it's fine.  It's also why "simply updating the manifest", doesn't stop an add-on from running - but also provides no assurance that everything will work fine.
So, as usual with the yearly .1 beta, if you need add-ons and can't live without them - then either wait until the ones you need are updated before updating, or download the beta and test it as a temporary or portable copy, rather than your daily driver.
On Tue, Feb 14, 2023 at 7:09 PM Brian's Mail list account via groups.io <http://groups.io> <bglists@... <mailto:blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io>> wrote:
OK here is where I'm confused then.
 The alphas I've been running up until now have all still worked
with all my
current add ons. The beta, which as I understand it is just the
latest alpha
in effect, throws up 16 add ons that will not work, indeed most of
the ones
I use daily. How can this be the case.
 Either the code is different to the alpha, or not. If not then the
incompatibilities are surely not real and have been introduced by
something
else.
 I'm confused, so maybe others will be as well. I do not really fancy
mucking about with 16 manifest files only to find that some subtle code
changes made between the latest alpha and the beta have made these
incompatible addons really not work.
 At the moment, I've pulled out of the beta, and have gone back to a
portable Alpha, I may make a portable version of the beta also, but
it is
very confusing, as logically, I'd have thought that the Alpha tests
would be
what the add on writers were watching to start work on their updates.
 Brian
--
bglists@... <mailto:bglists@...>
Sent via blueyonder.(Virgin media)
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@... <mailto:briang1@...>, putting
'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@...
<mailto:joseph.lee22590@...>>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>>
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2023 7:08 AM
Subject: [nvda] NVDA 2023.1 and community add-ons
Hi all,
Just like 2022, I plan to keep an eye on add-ons compatibility with NVDA
2023.1. The compatibility list can be found at:
Add-ons and backwards incompatible NVDA releases (nvda-project.org
<http://nvda-project.org>)
<https://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/nvdacompat.en.html
<https://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/nvdacompat.en.html>>
Notes:
* This thread will be updated whenever add-ons become compatible or
authors communicate their intentions.
* This might be the last year I will do this.
As of February 14, 2023, 11% of add-ons listed in community add-ons
website
are compatible with NVDA 2023.1.
Cheers,
Joseph
--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager
Web: www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org/>
Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/ <https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/>
Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/ <https://certification.nvaccess.org/>
User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda <https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda>
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess <http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess>
Twitter: @NVAccess <https://twitter.com/NVAccess>
Quentin Christensen
 

The reason we strongly recommend against it Simone is that you don't KNOW the add-ons work.  They might appear to work and they haven't instantly brought down NVDA or your whole system - and that's a good start.  But unless you've checked the changes, you can't be sure.  (API changes are posted to https://groups.google.com/a/nvaccess.org/g/nvda-api btw - I hope all add-on authors are subscribed already!)

We try to keep changes manageable for add-on authors, so hopefully it isn't too much work to update any given add-on - but please know we don't just change the "magic number" for the sake of it :)



On Tue, Feb 14, 2023 at 7:52 PM Simone Dal Maso <simone.dalmaso@...> wrote:
Hello,
I did what any serious programmer hates, but any user who doesn't want
to wait wants to check: change the manifest.ini without doing a single
check. :-)
Good news, many addons will work! That's better. At least, the ones I
use, see instant translate, braille extender, Nao, golden cursor,and
other and other.
Obviously, ony maintainer of each addon should ensure compatibility.
But it is very probably that for most of them there will be no work to do.
Thank you very much for the beta!


Il 14/02/2023 09:38, Quentin Christensen ha scritto:
> Brian,
>
> Looks like you found the beta by your last message, but just for anyone
> else, see the release announcement here:
> https://www.nvaccess.org/post/nvda-2023-1beta1/
> <https://www.nvaccess.org/post/nvda-2023-1beta1/>
>
> In terms of detecting incompatible add-ons, NVDA looks at the version
> the add-on has declared compatibility with and compares it to the
> version it needs add-ons to be compatible with.  That number has
> obviously changed (from 2022.1 to 2023.1) in the beta - I'm not sure
> when it gets changed in the alpha, but maybe once the first beta of the
> .1 release comes out? - but in any case, that's how it decides, not by
> checking exactly what the add-on does.  So, that an add-on passes or
> fails that check on startup purely means that, nothing more.  Which is
> why it is important for add-on authors to check their add-ons at this
> time of year, against what breaking changes are coming up in .1 (and in
> the beta now) before simply updating the file to say it's fine.  It's
> also why "simply updating the manifest", doesn't stop an add-on from
> running - but also provides no assurance that everything will work fine.
>
> So, as usual with the yearly .1 beta, if you need add-ons and can't live
> without them - then either wait until the ones you need are updated
> before updating, or download the beta and test it as a temporary or
> portable copy, rather than your daily driver.
>
> On Tue, Feb 14, 2023 at 7:09 PM Brian's Mail list account via groups.io
> <http://groups.io> <bglists=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io
> <mailto:blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io>> wrote:
>
>     OK here is where I'm confused then.
>       The alphas I've been running up until now have all still worked
>     with all my
>     current add ons. The beta, which as I understand it is just the
>     latest alpha
>     in effect, throws up 16 add ons that will not work, indeed most of
>     the ones
>     I use daily. How can this be the case.
>
>       Either the code is different to the alpha, or not. If not then the
>     incompatibilities are surely not real and have been introduced by
>     something
>     else.
>       I'm confused, so maybe others will be as well. I do not really fancy
>     mucking about with 16 manifest files only to find that some subtle code
>     changes made between the latest alpha and the beta have made these
>     incompatible addons really not work.
>
>       At the moment, I've pulled out of the beta, and have gone back to a
>     portable Alpha, I may make a portable version of the beta also, but
>     it is
>     very confusing, as logically, I'd have thought that the Alpha tests
>     would be
>     what the add on writers were watching to start work on their updates.
>       Brian
>
>     --
>     bglists@... <mailto:bglists@...>
>     Sent via blueyonder.(Virgin media)
>     Please address personal E-mail to:-
>     briang1@... <mailto:briang1@...>, putting
>     'Brian Gaff'
>     in the display name field.
>     ----- Original Message -----
>     From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@...
>     <mailto:joseph.lee22590@...>>
>     To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>>
>     Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2023 7:08 AM
>     Subject: [nvda] NVDA 2023.1 and community add-ons
>
>
>     Hi all,
>
>     Just like 2022, I plan to keep an eye on add-ons compatibility with NVDA
>     2023.1. The compatibility list can be found at:
>
>     Add-ons and backwards incompatible NVDA releases (nvda-project.org
>     <http://nvda-project.org>)
>     <https://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/nvdacompat.en.html
>     <https://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/nvdacompat.en.html>>
>
>
>
>     Notes:
>
>     * This thread will be updated whenever add-ons become compatible or
>     authors communicate their intentions.
>     * This might be the last year I will do this.
>
>
>
>     As of February 14, 2023, 11% of add-ons listed in community add-ons
>     website
>     are compatible with NVDA 2023.1.
>
>     Cheers,
>
>     Joseph
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Quentin Christensen
> Training and Support Manager
>
> Web: www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org/>
> Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/ <https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/>
> Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/
> <https://certification.nvaccess.org/>
> User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda <https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda>
> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
> <http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess>
> Twitter: @NVAccess <https://twitter.com/NVAccess>
>








--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager
Joseph Lee
 

Hi all,

If stars align, the method of editing manifest files will not work next year.

Cheers,

Joseph
David Ouimet
 

I have others tooo, but here are some updates just thought of looking forward to be compatible with NVDA 23.1, Acapela, Thunderbird, ClipSpeak and PlaceMarkers also.  

David Ouimet
Brian's Mail list account
 

I don't think i have ever seen 16 go offline in a beta. Would it not have been better to have the alpha declaring the incompatible ones? I'm assuming there is a road map that makes the breaking changes planned for later on in the 2023.x range etc?


I might as well in the current case then simply move the alpha to my temp copy, and that will save me messing about with registries. I know enough about the add ons I use to see no bits in the ones indicated that do not work at the moment, so it means that I won't have to do anything and can then keep an alpha which has I imagine bumped up to the next release to keep an eye on what in reality fails, not just which may fail. You say about the Manifest, and while I agree that you have to place the change somewhere, it is, for a normal user a bit of a faff, since its clear to me that hardly any add ons as on the web site actually still work officially, but do in reality.
Brian

--
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Sent via blueyonder.(Virgin media)
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Quentin Christensen" <quentin@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2023 8:38 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA 2023.1 and community add-ons


Brian,

Looks like you found the beta by your last message, but just for anyone
else, see the release announcement here:
https://www.nvaccess.org/post/nvda-2023-1beta1/

In terms of detecting incompatible add-ons, NVDA looks at the version the
add-on has declared compatibility with and compares it to the version it
needs add-ons to be compatible with. That number has obviously changed
(from 2022.1 to 2023.1) in the beta - I'm not sure when it gets changed in
the alpha, but maybe once the first beta of the .1 release comes out? - but
in any case, that's how it decides, not by checking exactly what the add-on
does. So, that an add-on passes or fails that check on startup purely
means that, nothing more. Which is why it is important for add-on authors
to check their add-ons at this time of year, against what breaking changes
are coming up in .1 (and in the beta now) before simply updating the file
to say it's fine. It's also why "simply updating the manifest", doesn't
stop an add-on from running - but also provides no assurance that
everything will work fine.

So, as usual with the yearly .1 beta, if you need add-ons and can't live
without them - then either wait until the ones you need are updated before
updating, or download the beta and test it as a temporary or portable copy,
rather than your daily driver.

On Tue, Feb 14, 2023 at 7:09 PM Brian's Mail list account via groups.io
<bglists@...> wrote:

OK here is where I'm confused then.
The alphas I've been running up until now have all still worked with all
my
current add ons. The beta, which as I understand it is just the latest
alpha
in effect, throws up 16 add ons that will not work, indeed most of the
ones
I use daily. How can this be the case.

Either the code is different to the alpha, or not. If not then the
incompatibilities are surely not real and have been introduced by
something
else.
I'm confused, so maybe others will be as well. I do not really fancy
mucking about with 16 manifest files only to find that some subtle code
changes made between the latest alpha and the beta have made these
incompatible addons really not work.

At the moment, I've pulled out of the beta, and have gone back to a
portable Alpha, I may make a portable version of the beta also, but it is
very confusing, as logically, I'd have thought that the Alpha tests would
be
what the add on writers were watching to start work on their updates.
Brian

--
bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.(Virgin media)
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2023 7:08 AM
Subject: [nvda] NVDA 2023.1 and community add-ons


Hi all,

Just like 2022, I plan to keep an eye on add-ons compatibility with NVDA
2023.1. The compatibility list can be found at:

Add-ons and backwards incompatible NVDA releases (nvda-project.org)
<https://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/nvdacompat.en.html>



Notes:

* This thread will be updated whenever add-ons become compatible or
authors communicate their intentions.
* This might be the last year I will do this.



As of February 14, 2023, 11% of add-ons listed in community add-ons website
are compatible with NVDA 2023.1.

Cheers,

Joseph












--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Web: www.nvaccess.org
Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/
User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess <https://twitter.com/NVAccess>
Brian's Mail list account
 

I think what was worrying me was 16 of the maybe 19 I have all came up no updates and fail. Maybe I'm just unlucky.
Brian

--
bglists@...
Sent via blueyonder.(Virgin media)
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@..., putting 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Simone Dal Maso" <simone.dalmaso@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2023 8:52 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA 2023.1 and community add-ons


Hello,
I did what any serious programmer hates, but any user who doesn't want to wait wants to check: change the manifest.ini without doing a single check. :-)
Good news, many addons will work! That's better. At least, the ones I use, see instant translate, braille extender, Nao, golden cursor,and other and other.
Obviously, ony maintainer of each addon should ensure compatibility.
But it is very probably that for most of them there will be no work to do.
Thank you very much for the beta!


Il 14/02/2023 09:38, Quentin Christensen ha scritto:
Brian,

Looks like you found the beta by your last message, but just for anyone else, see the release announcement here: https://www.nvaccess.org/post/nvda-2023-1beta1/ <https://www.nvaccess.org/post/nvda-2023-1beta1/>

In terms of detecting incompatible add-ons, NVDA looks at the version the add-on has declared compatibility with and compares it to the version it needs add-ons to be compatible with. That number has obviously changed (from 2022.1 to 2023.1) in the beta - I'm not sure when it gets changed in the alpha, but maybe once the first beta of the .1 release comes out? - but in any case, that's how it decides, not by checking exactly what the add-on does. So, that an add-on passes or fails that check on startup purely means that, nothing more. Which is why it is important for add-on authors to check their add-ons at this time of year, against what breaking changes are coming up in .1 (and in the beta now) before simply updating the file to say it's fine. It's also why "simply updating the manifest", doesn't stop an add-on from running - but also provides no assurance that everything will work fine.

So, as usual with the yearly .1 beta, if you need add-ons and can't live without them - then either wait until the ones you need are updated before updating, or download the beta and test it as a temporary or portable copy, rather than your daily driver.

On Tue, Feb 14, 2023 at 7:09 PM Brian's Mail list account via groups.io <http://groups.io> <bglists@... <mailto:blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io>> wrote:

OK here is where I'm confused then.
The alphas I've been running up until now have all still worked
with all my
current add ons. The beta, which as I understand it is just the
latest alpha
in effect, throws up 16 add ons that will not work, indeed most of
the ones
I use daily. How can this be the case.

Either the code is different to the alpha, or not. If not then the
incompatibilities are surely not real and have been introduced by
something
else.
I'm confused, so maybe others will be as well. I do not really fancy
mucking about with 16 manifest files only to find that some subtle code
changes made between the latest alpha and the beta have made these
incompatible addons really not work.

At the moment, I've pulled out of the beta, and have gone back to a
portable Alpha, I may make a portable version of the beta also, but
it is
very confusing, as logically, I'd have thought that the Alpha tests
would be
what the add on writers were watching to start work on their updates.
Brian

--
bglists@... <mailto:bglists@...>
Sent via blueyonder.(Virgin media)
Please address personal E-mail to:-
briang1@... <mailto:briang1@...>, putting
'Brian Gaff'
in the display name field.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@...
<mailto:joseph.lee22590@...>>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>>
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2023 7:08 AM
Subject: [nvda] NVDA 2023.1 and community add-ons


Hi all,

Just like 2022, I plan to keep an eye on add-ons compatibility with NVDA
2023.1. The compatibility list can be found at:

Add-ons and backwards incompatible NVDA releases (nvda-project.org
<http://nvda-project.org>)
<https://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/nvdacompat.en.html
<https://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/nvdacompat.en.html>>



Notes:

* This thread will be updated whenever add-ons become compatible or
authors communicate their intentions.
* This might be the last year I will do this.



As of February 14, 2023, 11% of add-ons listed in community add-ons
website
are compatible with NVDA 2023.1.

Cheers,

Joseph














--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Web: www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org/>
Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/ <https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/>
Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/ <https://certification.nvaccess.org/>
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Hi, I'm not a developer but am subscribed and to an average user of add ons,i it is all very obscure exactly what might get affected.In fact, by making the version number different they have made it very hard for a normal user to judge what will happen until you posted the e beta, as I've been using Alphas, and have seen no malfunctioning add ons even in the old audio themes for letting you know a screen position for a change in audio form.

We have a problem insofar that it would need a lot of people to check all aspects of add ons, yet it should be at least acknowledged that since the Alphas have been in use, many add ons might have shown their issues by now had there been some form of warning.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Quentin Christensen" <quentin@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2023 10:24 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA 2023.1 and community add-ons


The reason we strongly recommend against it Simone is that you don't KNOW
the add-ons work. They might appear to work and they haven't instantly
brought down NVDA or your whole system - and that's a good start. But
unless you've checked the changes, you can't be sure. (API changes are
posted to https://groups.google.com/a/nvaccess.org/g/nvda-api btw - I hope
all add-on authors are subscribed already!)

We try to keep changes manageable for add-on authors, so hopefully it isn't
too much work to update any given add-on - but please know we don't just
change the "magic number" for the sake of it :)



On Tue, Feb 14, 2023 at 7:52 PM Simone Dal Maso <simone.dalmaso@...>
wrote:

Hello,
I did what any serious programmer hates, but any user who doesn't want
to wait wants to check: change the manifest.ini without doing a single
check. :-)
Good news, many addons will work! That's better. At least, the ones I
use, see instant translate, braille extender, Nao, golden cursor,and
other and other.
Obviously, ony maintainer of each addon should ensure compatibility.
But it is very probably that for most of them there will be no work to do.
Thank you very much for the beta!


Il 14/02/2023 09:38, Quentin Christensen ha scritto:
Brian,

Looks like you found the beta by your last message, but just for anyone
else, see the release announcement here:
https://www.nvaccess.org/post/nvda-2023-1beta1/
<https://www.nvaccess.org/post/nvda-2023-1beta1/>

In terms of detecting incompatible add-ons, NVDA looks at the version
the add-on has declared compatibility with and compares it to the
version it needs add-ons to be compatible with. That number has
obviously changed (from 2022.1 to 2023.1) in the beta - I'm not sure
when it gets changed in the alpha, but maybe once the first beta of the
.1 release comes out? - but in any case, that's how it decides, not by
checking exactly what the add-on does. So, that an add-on passes or
fails that check on startup purely means that, nothing more. Which is
why it is important for add-on authors to check their add-ons at this
time of year, against what breaking changes are coming up in .1 (and in
the beta now) before simply updating the file to say it's fine. It's
also why "simply updating the manifest", doesn't stop an add-on from
running - but also provides no assurance that everything will work fine.

So, as usual with the yearly .1 beta, if you need add-ons and can't live
without them - then either wait until the ones you need are updated
before updating, or download the beta and test it as a temporary or
portable copy, rather than your daily driver.

On Tue, Feb 14, 2023 at 7:09 PM Brian's Mail list account via groups.io
<http://groups.io> <bglists@...
<mailto:blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io>> wrote:

OK here is where I'm confused then.
The alphas I've been running up until now have all still worked
with all my
current add ons. The beta, which as I understand it is just the
latest alpha
in effect, throws up 16 add ons that will not work, indeed most of
the ones
I use daily. How can this be the case.

Either the code is different to the alpha, or not. If not then the
incompatibilities are surely not real and have been introduced by
something
else.
I'm confused, so maybe others will be as well. I do not really
fancy
mucking about with 16 manifest files only to find that some subtle
code
changes made between the latest alpha and the beta have made these
incompatible addons really not work.

At the moment, I've pulled out of the beta, and have gone back to a
portable Alpha, I may make a portable version of the beta also, but
it is
very confusing, as logically, I'd have thought that the Alpha tests
would be
what the add on writers were watching to start work on their updates.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@...
<mailto:joseph.lee22590@...>>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io <mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io>>
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2023 7:08 AM
Subject: [nvda] NVDA 2023.1 and community add-ons


Hi all,

Just like 2022, I plan to keep an eye on add-ons compatibility with
NVDA
2023.1. The compatibility list can be found at:

Add-ons and backwards incompatible NVDA releases (nvda-project.org
<http://nvda-project.org>)
<https://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/nvdacompat.en.html
<https://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/nvdacompat.en.html>>



Notes:

* This thread will be updated whenever add-ons become compatible or
authors communicate their intentions.
* This might be the last year I will do this.



As of February 14, 2023, 11% of add-ons listed in community add-ons
website
are compatible with NVDA 2023.1.

Cheers,

Joseph














--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Web: www.nvaccess.org <http://www.nvaccess.org/>
Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/ <https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/

Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/
<https://certification.nvaccess.org/>
User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda <https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
<http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess>
Twitter: @NVAccess <https://twitter.com/NVAccess>





--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

Web: www.nvaccess.org
Training: https://www.nvaccess.org/shop/
Certification: https://certification.nvaccess.org/
User group: https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/NVAccess
Twitter: @NVAccess <https://twitter.com/NVAccess>
Brian's Mail list account
 

Does that mean that code itself will then be automatically checked for failures then? If yes, good, if no, then bad.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Lee" <joseph.lee22590@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2023 12:09 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA 2023.1 and community add-ons


Hi all,

If stars align, the method of editing manifest files will not work next year.

Cheers,

Joseph
Brian's Mail list account
 

Of course you also seem to get the double whammy of this if you want to still run NvDA on Windows7, as some updated add ons will no longer install on that version of windows. Its interesting because in my small circle of friends, many do keep Windows 7, since 11 will not run on their hardware, and they have shelved an idea of a new computer during the current cost of living crisis. Of course, there is nothing to stop the current versions of nvda working, but its a ramification to bear in mind in these troubled times. Of course, hindsight is a wonderful thing and they all should have done it years ago, but I suspect that many just found the learning curve a hassle, not being geeks like us. grin.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "David Ouimet" <whitewater2612@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2023 6:20 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA 2023.1 and community add-ons


I have others tooo, but here are some updates just thought of looking forward to be compatible with NVDA 23.1, Acapela, Thunderbird, ClipSpeak and PlaceMarkers also.

David Ouimet
Gene
 

If People continue to use Windows 7, they can use versions of NVDA in which the versions of add-ons they have still work.  There are changes and new features in new versions of NVDA, but most people won't have detriments that matter by using the old version they are currently using. 

I believe you can still upgrade to Windows 10 even though it is out of support.  That is something others may know.  I don't know anything about the people's computers in question.  I don't know if they will run Windows 10 well or reasonably well. 

Windows 7 can continue to be used, but it will become increasingly limited and more dangerous.  Already, Chrome, Edge and the Brave browser don't support Windows 7.  Kindle no longer does either.  When Firefox support ends, it may do so around August of this year, no major browser will support it any longer.  When a browser version becomes too old, you can't use banking sites any longer. 

There simply comes a point when you either upgrade or start having more and more limitations and exposure to the danger of being hacked.

Gene

On 2/15/2023 3:43 AM, Brian's Mail list account via groups.io wrote:

Of course you also seem to get the double whammy of this if you want to still run NvDA on Windows7, as some updated add ons will no longer install on that version of windows. Its interesting because in my small circle of friends, many do keep Windows 7, since 11 will not run on their hardware, and they have shelved an idea of a new computer during the current cost of living crisis. Of course, there is nothing to stop the current versions of nvda working, but its a ramification to bear in mind in these troubled times. Of course, hindsight is a wonderful thing and they all should have done it years ago, but I suspect that many just found the learning curve a hassle, not being geeks like us. grin.
Brian


Gene
 

I need to make a correction.  I said that Windows 10 is out of support.  That's wrong, it is still supported, but I don't know if you can still get Windows 10 since Windows 11 has been out for awhile.

Gene

On 2/15/2023 3:54 AM, Gene wrote:

If People continue to use Windows 7, they can use versions of NVDA in which the versions of add-ons they have still work.  There are changes and new features in new versions of NVDA, but most people won't have detriments that matter by using the old version they are currently using. 

I believe you can still upgrade to Windows 10 even though it is out of support.  That is something others may know.  I don't know anything about the people's computers in question.  I don't know if they will run Windows 10 well or reasonably well. 

Windows 7 can continue to be used, but it will become increasingly limited and more dangerous.  Already, Chrome, Edge and the Brave browser don't support Windows 7.  Kindle no longer does either.  When Firefox support ends, it may do so around August of this year, no major browser will support it any longer.  When a browser version becomes too old, you can't use banking sites any longer. 

There simply comes a point when you either upgrade or start having more and more limitations and exposure to the danger of being hacked.

Gene

On 2/15/2023 3:43 AM, Brian's Mail list account via groups.io wrote:
Of course you also seem to get the double whammy of this if you want to still run NvDA on Windows7, as some updated add ons will no longer install on that version of windows. Its interesting because in my small circle of friends, many do keep Windows 7, since 11 will not run on their hardware, and they have shelved an idea of a new computer during the current cost of living crisis. Of course, there is nothing to stop the current versions of nvda working, but its a ramification to bear in mind in these troubled times. Of course, hindsight is a wonderful thing and they all should have done it years ago, but I suspect that many just found the learning curve a hassle, not being geeks like us. grin.
Brian



Joseph Lee
 

Hi,

To answer some questions:

  • Manifest editing: this method will not work once NVDA moves to a newer Python 3 release. There are differences between Python 3.7 and newer Python releases that can cause add-ons to fail, especially if they use things that no longer exist in nwer Python releases.
  • Python upgrade in a 2023.x release: nope - year.1 releases are compatibility breaking releases. The next such opportunity will be 2024.1.
  • Add-ons and alpha builds: not all add-on authors test their add-ons via NVDA alpha releases (I do). I prepared my add-ons to support 2023.1 changes weeks ago, so the only things I did when beta 1 was tagged at the source code level (before it was actually compiled) were perform last-minute checks and update the manifest (for this year, the only thing I did was update the manifest when packaging add-ons). Several weeks ago, the code from NVDA alpha snapshots made its way to beta branch (defined in NVDA's GitHub repository), and that's when I knew I must perform some more tests to make sure add-ons are ready as API freeze was imminent. Surely enough, on Monday (13th) afternoon (Pacific Time), 2023.1 beta 1 was tagged, and it took at least an hour for the actual beta installer to appear, and I used that time to package and release 23.02.1 releases. This is why when you look at compatible add-ons list at this moment (morning of February 15th) carefully, all add-ons except one or two declaring compatibility with 2023.1 are minee. Not all add-on authors respond the way I do, and that's why I did say updates are on the way as more add-ons become compatible.
  • Most add-ons failing when installing 2023.1 beta 1: this is expected. This is why I advised everyone to install Add-on Updater 23.02.1 BEFORE installing 2023.1 beta 1 so the add-on can check for updates as more add-ons become compatible.

Hope this clarifies things.

Cheers,

Joseph
Jim Pemberton
 

This is an honest question from a non-developer, and believe me, no offense is meant here, I just really want to know.  If a new version of NVDA uses a newer version of Python, and that version of Python breaks compatibility so that certain things that used to be possible are no longer possible, then how exactly is it an improvement, rather than a step backwards?  I’m not trying to ask a stupid question, but what are the benefits here? 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2023 6:30 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA 2023.1 and community add-ons

 

Hi,

To answer some questions:

  • Manifest editing: this method will not work once NVDA moves to a newer Python 3 release. There are differences between Python 3.7 and newer Python releases that can cause add-ons to fail, especially if they use things that no longer exist in nwer Python releases.
  • Python upgrade in a 2023.x release: nope - year.1 releases are compatibility breaking releases. The next such opportunity will be 2024.1.
  • Add-ons and alpha builds: not all add-on authors test their add-ons via NVDA alpha releases (I do). I prepared my add-ons to support 2023.1 changes weeks ago, so the only things I did when beta 1 was tagged at the source code level (before it was actually compiled) were perform last-minute checks and update the manifest (for this year, the only thing I did was update the manifest when packaging add-ons). Several weeks ago, the code from NVDA alpha snapshots made its way to beta branch (defined in NVDA's GitHub repository), and that's when I knew I must perform some more tests to make sure add-ons are ready as API freeze was imminent. Surely enough, on Monday (13th) afternoon (Pacific Time), 2023.1 beta 1 was tagged, and it took at least an hour for the actual beta installer to appear, and I used that time to package and release 23.02.1 releases. This is why when you look at compatible add-ons list at this moment (morning of February 15th) carefully, all add-ons except one or two declaring compatibility with 2023.1 are minee. Not all add-on authors respond the way I do, and that's why I did say updates are on the way as more add-ons become compatible.
  • Most add-ons failing when installing 2023.1 beta 1: this is expected. This is why I advised everyone to install Add-on Updater 23.02.1 BEFORE installing 2023.1 beta 1 so the add-on can check for updates as more add-ons become compatible.

Hope this clarifies things.

Cheers,

Joseph
Brian Vogel
 

On Wed, Feb 15, 2023 at 08:59 AM, Jim Pemberton wrote:
If a new version of NVDA uses a newer version of Python, and that version of Python breaks compatibility so that certain things that used to be possible are no longer possible, then how exactly is it an improvement, rather than a step backwards? 
-
Jim, that's a good question that has no real answer.

The fact of the matter is that for software, any software, not just NVDA, to remain viable in the marketplace it must be constantly moving forward in one way or another, and often multiple ways at once.  It's been a fact since the PC appeared on our doorsteps.

And I'd say that there's very, very seldom a true case of something that was possible no longer being possible.  But there are plenty of times, particularly when it comes to NVDA add-ons, where if their developers/maintainers are not paying attention to when the next major compatibility-breaking NVDA update is coming along (Hey Guys & Gals, it's the first one of every calendar year, at least recently) and do not do the tweaks required to allow ongoing compatibility, things break.  

But NVDA, like all software, must be part of continuous process improvement, and that's never going away, or the product will go away.  And the folks at NVDA are entirely separate from most add-on developers, and have clearly communicated what the major upgrade releases are where compatibility will break.  It is up to the add-on developers to follow NVDA, not the reverse.  [Not unlike it's up to third-party software houses to follow Windows or Mac, not the reverse.]

But this is also why one should make a portable copy of the last fully working installation of any given calendar year's release prior to the installation of the next calendar year's new major release.  It's the same principle as needing a full system image backup of your computer, but on a tiny scale.
--

Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 11 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 22621; Office 2016, Version 16.0.15726.20188, 32-bit

It is much easier to be critical than to be correct.

       ~ Benjamin Disraeli, 1804-1881
Brian Vogel
 

On Wed, Feb 15, 2023 at 05:17 AM, Gene wrote:
I don't know if you can still get Windows 10 since Windows 11 has been out for awhile.
-
Brief answer to this question:  Yes, you can still get Windows 10, provided you are doing an in-place upgrade from Windows 7 or 8.1, or if you have previously purchased a Windows 10 license key.

Microsoft is no longer selling Windows 10 license keys directly.  You can still download Windows 10, but you need to have already acquired a license key at some point in the past if you are installing it on a computer that never had an operating system on it.

As far as folks who already own machines that came with Windows 10, they can always "nuke and pave" and reinstall Windows, as the digital license is already linked to the motherboard on that machine.

As far as buying a new computer, you can pretty much count on it having Windows 11 unless you were to special order a business class machine with a Windows 10 downgrade.  And you'd need to have a very, very good reason to want to do that at this juncture, since the clock is definitely ticking for Windows 10.  October 2025 will be here before we know it.
--

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It is much easier to be critical than to be correct.

       ~ Benjamin Disraeli, 1804-1881
Brian's Mail list account
 

I ask the same question every time this happens. I imagine one of the annoyances for all is that new versions of Python only support the old way of syntaxically doing things for a while and label them deprecated, and hence when that happens everyone is expected to have changed. In the case of a screenreader, though you are in a bit of a cleft stick. IE you want to make use of the better performance and features of the new version but on the other hand you need to teach yourself different ways the syntax has changed, but with contributing authors updating on their own schedule, and some having ceased updating their code, we end up with the current situation at some point down the road The next big one for a significant number of users will be the non support of windows 7 at all, as some of the routines used to make code run, simply do not exist in older windows than 10.

I have no answer, in my view, and this is mine alone. Since the new Windows front ends Microsoft come up with are just skins on the original code, why don't they allow older forms of skins. The obvious one is to remove ribbon menus and make files and folders less cluttered. After all, it would not worry your average user, and might even speed the productivity up when a change is made to Windows. They are sort of doing it with those ill fated apps they brought out, which in most cases were worse than the normal Windows versions they were supposed to be replacing.
Brian

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Pemberton" <pemby@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2023 1:59 PM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA 2023.1 and community add-ons


This is an honest question from a non-developer, and believe me, no offense is meant here, I just really want to know. If a new version of NVDA uses a newer version of Python, and that version of Python breaks compatibility so that certain things that used to be possible are no longer possible, then how exactly is it an improvement, rather than a step backwards? I’m not trying to ask a stupid question, but what are the benefits here?



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2023 6:30 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA 2023.1 and community add-ons



Hi,

To answer some questions:

* Manifest editing: this method will not work once NVDA moves to a newer Python 3 release. There are differences between Python 3.7 and newer Python releases that can cause add-ons to fail, especially if they use things that no longer exist in nwer Python releases.
* Python upgrade in a 2023.x release: nope - year.1 releases are compatibility breaking releases. The next such opportunity will be 2024.1.
* Add-ons and alpha builds: not all add-on authors test their add-ons via NVDA alpha releases (I do). I prepared my add-ons to support 2023.1 changes weeks ago, so the only things I did when beta 1 was tagged at the source code level (before it was actually compiled) were perform last-minute checks and update the manifest (for this year, the only thing I did was update the manifest when packaging add-ons). Several weeks ago, the code from NVDA alpha snapshots made its way to beta branch (defined in NVDA's GitHub repository), and that's when I knew I must perform some more tests to make sure add-ons are ready as API freeze was imminent. Surely enough, on Monday (13th) afternoon (Pacific Time), 2023.1 beta 1 was tagged, and it took at least an hour for the actual beta installer to appear, and I used that time to package and release 23.02.1 releases. This is why when you look at compatible add-ons list at this moment (morning of February 15th) carefully, all add-ons except one or two declaring compatibility with 2023.1 are minee. Not all add-on authors respond the way I do, and that's why I did say updates are on the way as more add-ons become compatible.
* Most add-ons failing when installing 2023.1 beta 1: this is expected. This is why I advised everyone to install Add-on Updater 23.02.1 BEFORE installing 2023.1 beta 1 so the add-on can check for updates as more add-ons become compatible.

Hope this clarifies things.

Cheers,

Joseph

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