Hey folks, sorry this message is a bit all over the place.

Got myself a Steam Deck for the holidays. It's a nice mini laptop when paired with a bluetooth keyboard, but I'd like to use it as a touch device whenever possible and am looking for some advice/help.

First, I'm trying to set up the enhanced touchscreen gestures addon from here: https://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/enhancedTouchGestures.en.html I do need to remap a gesture, which the changelog for 23.01 says should be possible. The version at the above link seems to be 22.12, though, and there doesn't even appear to be a changelog entry for 22.12. Am I missing something?

I'd also like to bind a few new touch gestures--something to launch OCR, and another for continuous read. Am I correct in thinking that I can't bind gestures to arbitrary NVDA commands and will instead have to submit a PR to add them in the addon? I'm fine doing that if so, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something.

Any other NVDA touchscreen usage tips are welcome as well. I know touch support is a bit lacking, but the intent is to use the Deck for gaming/casual productivity. To that end, I should be able to get by with both touch and my bluetooth keyboard but I'd like to move as many interactions to touch as possible. Thanks.

Hi,

There is no changelog for 22.12 because it contains localization and minor maintenance updates such as updating last tested version flag. Not all released versions have changelog entries as some are really localization updates.

Gestures assignment: yes, you can assign touch gestures to NVDA commands - I just tested assigning five finger flick left to open Windows OCR (NVDA+R) and it works. Keep in mind that the number of commands available via touch are limited, and NVDA divides touch commands into modes. The continuous reading command (say all) is already there: three finger flick down from text mode (to switch between touch modes, do a three finger single tap).

At the moment I'm not accepting pull requests for Enhanced Touch Gestures ad-on as it is in deep maintenance mode - I'm not actively maintaining it.

I advise reading NVDA user guide which lists touchscreen commands for use on touch-capable computers.

Cheers,

Joseph

On Mon, Jan 2, 2023 at 11:07 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:

I advise reading NVDA user guide which lists touchscreen commands for use on touch-capable computers.

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Another chance to re-emphasize that every NVDA user needs to know how to do two basic things when almost any question arises.  The one you want really depends on the exact nature of the question:

1.        Bring up the NVDA Commands Quick Reference:  NVDA + N, H, Q  [NVDA Menu, Help, Commands Quick Reference]

2.      Bring up the NVDA User Guide:  NVDA + N, H, U   [NVDA Menu, Help, User Guide]

 --

Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 19045; Office 2016, Version 16.0.15726.20188, 32-bit

"Be Yourself" is the worst advice you can give to some people.

       ~ Tom Masson

Thanks for the clarity on the changelog.

To be clear, when I click the "stable version" link at https://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/enhancedTouchGestures.en.html, that links me to https://objects.githubusercontent.com/github-production-release-asset-2e65be/61492913/7dfeac29-f8a1-4d30-9535-864bb7574137?X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Credential=AKIAIWNJYAX4CSVEH53A%2F20230102%2Fus-east-1%2Fs3%2Faws4_request&X-Amz-Date=20230102T191806Z&X-Amz-Expires=300&X-Amz-Signature=ac359db2bd0cbb35770226bb00041a160d16753b1a326945422b15fb1aea5803&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host&actor_id=0&key_id=0&repo_id=61492913&response-content-disposition=attachment%3B%20filename%3DenhancedTouchGestures-22.12.nvda-addon&response-content-type=application%2Foctet-stream (note the 22.12.) The ability to rebind gestures appears in the 23.01 changelog. Should I not be getting the addon from this location?

Thanks.

As far as I can see, not only does the NVDA Community Add-Ons Site still feature 22.12 as the latest stable release, so does the NVDA Add-Ons Directory (hosted by the Spanish-Speaking NVDA Community Association).

There seems to be some sort of hitch in the distribution mechanisms, perhaps due to release so close to the Christmas and New Years holidays.
--

Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 19045; Office 2016, Version 16.0.15726.20188, 32-bit

"Be Yourself" is the worst advice you can give to some people.

       ~ Tom Masson

Sorry, I should have mentioned that the NVDA Add-Ons directory does have the latest download noted as a verified dev version:  enhancedTouchGestures 22.03.1 (dev)

But the last stable version is still 22.12 there.

Hi,

Confusing, isn't it? Here's why:

Back in March 2022, I released Enhanced Touch Gestures 22.03 after noticing that NV Access was close to releasing 2022.1 beta 1. I also generated 22.03.1 in case beta 1 came out in March, which did happen. The only difference between 22.03 and 22.03.1 is last tested version flag - the latter declared compatibility with NVDA 2022.1. I then took a long hiatus from this add-on until December 2022 (more specifically, November 2022) when I decided to release 22.12 which included mostly localization updates and updated compatibility information. Because this version is no different than 22.03.1, I reused 22.03 release tag from GitHub and added 22.12 download link. I've been doing something similar to it for years - I reserve tags for major things with localization adding an updated package on top of the latest release tag.

As for why NVDA community add-ons website is offering 22.12 when I did say last night that version 23.01 is on its way: this is due to the way I release add-on updates these days. As part of add-on updates metadata used by Add-on Updater, it contains download links for various update channels for add-ons. As part of add-on updates process, I edit this metadata (hosted on GitHub) to point to absolute latest release I have, commit changes, post it on GitHub, and then Add-on Updater will offer newer updates. At the same time, I send pull requests to another GitHub repository, this time informing NV Access and the add-ons community that new add-on updates are available and is ready for download from community add-ons website. It takes hours to days for these pull requests to be approved by a member of the add-ons community and eventually acted upon by NV Access staff.

The exact process and the timeline I followed to prepare Enhanced Touch Gestures 23.01 (or for that matter, version 23.01 of eleven add-ons I either actively maintain or not):

1. October 2022: I revisited a message I sent earlier in 2022, informing you all that I will be ending support for Windows 7 and 8.x from my add-ons soon. I knew I have to choose a suitable date by which I will be asking you to move to Windows 10 and later, and after some thinking, January 3, 2023 was chosen.
2. Early November 2022: I redownloaded code for unmaintained add-ons (from various GitHub repositories) to do two things: prepare one last release compatible with Windows 7 and 8.1, and work on 23.01. Version 22.12 is almost identical to earlier add-on releases apart from localization updates and a flag declaring support for NVDA 2022.3. At the same time, I rewrote parts of Enhanced Touch Gestures and other add-ons to take advantage of both Windows 10 and later and newer NVDA releases. You may also recall a notice from me around that time or shortly before that I'm giving folks 60-day notice before ending support for Windows 7 and 8.1, and you may remember that it had an urgent tone to it (my tone back then was urgent and intentional).
3. Late November 2022: I released 22.12 of my add-ons. First, I instructed the add-on updates metadata used by Add-on Updater to host 22.12 download links, which prompted Add-on Updater to present 22.12 to everyone. I then sent a colection of pul requests to add-on files GitHub repository maintained by NV Access, declaring that 22.12 add-on updates are available and are ready for distribution on community add-ons website. I also sent a notice throughout the NVDA community about 22.12 updates and their nature (last versions to support soon to be unsupported Windows versions).
4. Early December 2022: while finishing up some last-minute Ph.D. applications, I continued to prepare my add-ons for 23.01 release, this time working on changes introduced in newer NVDA releases.
5. Christmas Eve 2022: by this time 23.01 work was completed, so all I needed was obtain the last localization updates for 2022 (December 30, 2022), declare the new version, then package and upload the new releases to GitHub. I also began the planning phase for Add-on Updater 23.02 and Windows App Essentials 23.03 (the next major milestone for these add-ons), more so for Add-on Updater as I wanted to work on some technical improvements.
6. New Year's Day weekend: after going through the worst part of living with COVID-19, I uploaded 23.01 release packages to GitHub and sent pull requests to NV Access and the add-ons community.
7. January 3, 2023 at 02:00 UTC (6 PM Pacific on January 2nd): add-on updates metadata employed by Add-on Updaterwill be updated to point to 23.01 releases, and Add-on Updater itself will offer these updates to you, fully knowing that 23.01 releases will not be made available to community add-ons website (as I said, it takes hours to days for add-on updates pull requests to be reviewed, approved, and merged).

The ideal situation is for community add-ons website to let you download 23.01 releases today; but as I described above, it takes a while for updates to show up (there are really two active community add-ons reviewers: Noelia Martinez and I; we are the ones approving pull requests so add-on updates can be distributed via community add-ons website once authors present add-on updates for us to review). One of the ideas floating around is to make the review process automated so folks do not have to wait a while between add-on release and distribution, and that's been discussed at length somewhere. The process and timeline I detailed should also shed some light as to why some add-ons are actively updated and some are not - it ultimately comes down to willingness by people to maintain add-ons; I expect lots of activity around add-on releases by the time NVDA 2023.1 beta 1 is released (hopefully I won't be as frustrated and angry as last March when 2022.1 beta 1 came out).

One final note: you may have noticed that I tend to plan add-on releases in advance. While I do respond quickly to last-minute changes, I do plan major changes months in advance and do some preliminary work beforehand. In some cases, I plan things years in advance - while not publicly documented, I do have plans to end support for Windows 10/11 Version 22H2 from Windows App Essentials add-on by middle of 2024, with the last add-on release to support Windows 10 in any form tentatively scheduled for October 2025 provided that I'm maintaining the add-on by then (I also do have an alternative roadmap should Windows App Essentials be discontinued prior to 2025 depending on the direction of Windows as a Service, Windows Insider Program, and my health and well-being and career trajectories). Speaking of discontinuing add-ons, the next on the list is Add-on Updater provided that NVDA does come with a way to update add-ons by itself. As an extension of this, I am keeping an eye on how NVDA can best move to newer Python releases, specifically Python 3.10 or later, something I've been thinking about since last year (this work will take months to perfect).

Hope this explains a lot.

Cheers,

Joseph

I think for touch screens one of the problems is that you almost always want to turn the damn thing off, and this, at least in Windows does not seem to be obvious. The HP I have I thought I'd done it, but reboot and its back again.
OK I imagine this is a windows issue, but to the beginner it is very confusing!

Brian

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On Tue, Jan 3, 2023 at 07:45 AM, Brian's Mail list account wrote:

I think for touch screens one of the problems is that you almost always want to turn the damn thing off, and this, at least in Windows does not seem to be obvious.

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Some people do, some people don't, but you are correct that it's not obvious.  The only way I know of to do it is in device manager, and since I'm not sitting at a machine with a touch screen I can't give the exact thing I have toggled off.
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Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 19045; Office 2016, Version 16.0.15726.20188, 32-bit

"Be Yourself" is the worst advice you can give to some people.

       ~ Tom Masson

Hi,

You can toggle NVDA's touch interaction support by pressing Control+Alt+NVDA+T (T as in touchscreen).

Cheers,

Joseph

On Tue, Jan 3, 2023 at 11:19 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:

You can toggle NVDA's touch interaction support by pressing Control+Alt+NVDA+T (T as in touchscreen).

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But that's disjoint from turning actual touch screen functionality under Windows On or Off, isn't it?

I personally hate touchscreens because I so often accidentally activate something or move the mouse pointer if I am using my finger near the screen and accidentally touch it.  For machines that I work on constantly, I turn off the touchscreen entirely via Device Manager.
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Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 19045; Office 2016, Version 16.0.15726.20188, 32-bit

"Be Yourself" is the worst advice you can give to some people.

       ~ Tom Masson

Hi,

Correct - the "real" way to turn off touchscreens is disabling it from Device Manager or uninstalling the touchscreen driver altogether.

Cheers,

Joseph

On Tue, Jan 3, 2023 at 11:36 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Correct - the "real" way to turn off touchscreens is disabling it from Device Manager or uninstalling the touchscreen driver altogether.

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I don't remove the driver simply because it often gets reinstalled.  Also, if someone else wants to turn the touchscreen back on it's much quicker to go into Device Manager and reenable that.  Once I've turned the touchscreen feature of a touch enabled screen off in device manager, I've never had it turn on again on its own.
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Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 22H2, Build 19045; Office 2016, Version 16.0.15726.20188, 32-bit

"Be Yourself" is the worst advice you can give to some people.

       ~ Tom Masson