NVDA and Email Images


David Russell
 

Hello NVDA Group,
I am running into the occasion more frequent than I care to admit
where websites to block spam and trawling have resorted to using an
image to convey contact info, which my version of NVDA does not read.
The website contact form is also designed to hide the email address,
but is an option for making contact as a screen reader user.
As links appear to be coming passe, are developers addressing this dilemma?
Thanks for the reply; I am sorry if I missed something on this specific issue.
Best,

--
David C. Russell, Author


Sarah k Alawami
 

Can you not use an audio captcha to get past it? Or is this something different?

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of David Russell
Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2021 1:57 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] NVDA and Email Images

Hello NVDA Group,
I am running into the occasion more frequent than I care to admit where websites to block spam and trawling have resorted to using an image to convey contact info, which my version of NVDA does not read.
The website contact form is also designed to hide the email address, but is an option for making contact as a screen reader user.
As links appear to be coming passe, are developers addressing this dilemma?
Thanks for the reply; I am sorry if I missed something on this specific issue.
Best,

--
David C. Russell, Author


Quentin Christensen
 

If you move focus to the image, you can press NVDA+r to run OCR over the image to detect text.  We introduced this into NVDA itself back in 2017 (prior to that time it was only available via an add-on).  You can find more information and a walkthrough of the feature from our In-Process blog from back when we introduced it: https://www.nvaccess.org/post/in-process-5th-october-2017/#OCR

Unfortunately, keeping ahead of spammers is an ongoing effort with ever changing goalposts.  We often get asked why we can't make a function in NVDA to overcome Captchas for instance - and the main point is, if we could automate it reliably, so could the spammers - which would defeat the purpose of using the captcha in the first place.  Newer algorithms do things like detecting keystrokes / mouse movements, and time between interactions and so on to make a good guess as to whether it is a human or a bot attempting to access the page, and so more easily let a human through, and this usually works well and is quite accessible, often only requiring the user to check a checkbox saying something like "I am not a robot".  What we suggest for now is to encourage developers and sites to use those more accessible options.

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Wed, Oct 27, 2021 at 8:35 AM Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@...> wrote:
Can you not  use an audio captcha to get past it? Or is this something different?

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of David Russell
Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2021 1:57 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] NVDA and Email Images

Hello NVDA Group,
I am running into the occasion more frequent than I care to admit where websites to block spam and trawling have resorted to using an image to convey contact info, which my version of NVDA does not read.
The website contact form is also designed to hide the email address, but is an option for making contact as a screen reader user.
As links appear to be coming passe, are developers addressing this dilemma?
Thanks for the reply; I am sorry if I missed something on this specific issue.
Best,

--
David C. Russell, Author













--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


David Russell
 

Hi NVDA Group,

Thanks for the advisement to use the NVDA key and the letter r to
address the email image issue.
This is different from audio captcha.
To the website administrator, this image feature is to deter spammers
and the like from sending unwanted communications. I hasten to ask,
what is to prevent such activity if one sending spam realizes they can
override the intention of a website admin by acquiring NVDA and
misusing this feature?
This begs the question, would it be good practice to inform the admin
that blind persons can use the NVDA screen reader and utilize a
feature to send email via the presented image?

I think it's great to provide technology solutions, but as the adage
states, idle hands are mischief's workshop.
Best,

--
David C. Russell, Author


Jackie
 

The accuracy of this tool to decipher captchas is so questionable as
to make it virtually useless in that regard.

On 10/27/21, David Russell <david.sonofhashem@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi NVDA Group,

Thanks for the advisement to use the NVDA key and the letter r to
address the email image issue.
This is different from audio captcha.
To the website administrator, this image feature is to deter spammers
and the like from sending unwanted communications. I hasten to ask,
what is to prevent such activity if one sending spam realizes they can
override the intention of a website admin by acquiring NVDA and
misusing this feature?
This begs the question, would it be good practice to inform the admin
that blind persons can use the NVDA screen reader and utilize a
feature to send email via the presented image?

I think it's great to provide technology solutions, but as the adage
states, idle hands are mischief's workshop.
Best,

--
David C. Russell, Author





--
Subscribe to a WordPress for Newbies Mailing List by sending a message to:
wp4newbs-request@freelists.org with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by
visiting the list page at http://www.freelists.org/list/wp4newbs
& check out my sites at www.brightstarsweb.com & www.mysitesbeenhacked.com


 

On Wed, Oct 27, 2021 at 09:49 AM, David Russell wrote:
I hasten to ask,
what is to prevent such activity if one sending spam realizes they can
override the intention of a website admin by acquiring NVDA and
misusing this feature?
-
Just not gonna happen.  What they're trying to prevent is bots, not humans who are willing to go to great lengths.

And bots handle things without human intervention, and there is no way I know of to use NVDA from the command line to achieve this end.

Quite simply, what these things are meant to prevent is "smash and grab" via programmatic automation.  And they do it, very effectively. 
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all.

         ~ John F. Kennedy

 


 

And I'll make the point, again, that it's very difficult to discuss solutions or workarounds without actual examples to work from.  Even if it's a section of an e-mail that's problematic that gets cut and pasted, that's better than just a description.

And, as Jackie noted, if the thing in question is a text-based captcha, they are designed to thwart OCR.  They rely on the rather extraordinary pattern matching that humans can do when faced with incomplete and/or distorted visual information (provided they can see, of course).
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all.

         ~ John F. Kennedy

 


Quentin Christensen
 

I wasn't suggesting using NVDA+r to read captchas, indeed my other comment was that we CAN'T build a feature which will reliably do that - for the very reason that if we could, so could the people (or bots) the captchas are designed to stop in the first place.  My suggestion for NVDA+r was in the case of someone's contact details being provided in an image - at least that was my understanding but maybe the question was simply how to get past the captcha to get to the contact details, in which case no, NVDA+r won't work there.

Quentin.

On Thu, Oct 28, 2021 at 1:03 AM Jackie <abletec@...> wrote:
The accuracy of this tool to decipher captchas is so questionable as
to make it virtually useless in that regard.

On 10/27/21, David Russell <david.sonofhashem@...> wrote:
> Hi NVDA Group,
>
> Thanks for the advisement to use the NVDA key and the letter r to
> address the email image issue.
> This is different from audio captcha.
> To the website administrator, this image feature is to deter spammers
> and the like from sending unwanted communications. I hasten to ask,
> what is to prevent such activity if one sending spam realizes they can
> override the intention of a website admin by acquiring NVDA and
> misusing this feature?
> This begs the question, would it be good practice to inform the admin
> that blind persons can use the NVDA screen reader and utilize a
> feature to send email via the presented image?
>
> I think it's great to provide technology solutions, but as the adage
> states, idle hands are mischief's workshop.
> Best,
>
> --
> David C. Russell, Author
>
>
>
>
>
>


--
Subscribe to a WordPress for Newbies Mailing List by sending a message to:
wp4newbs-request@... with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by
visiting the list page at http://www.freelists.org/list/wp4newbs
& check out my sites at www.brightstarsweb.com & www.mysitesbeenhacked.com







--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Shawn
 

Sometimes NVDA’s OCR works on images, sometimes I have to go to the full size page on Facebook, sometimes Facebook’s own OCR puts the text on there, but sometimes neither of those works and I have to turn my monitor on and use Seeing AI on my Iphone to read it. When all else fails, that one works.

Shawn Klein

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

From: Quentin Christensen
Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2021 6:59 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and Email Images

 

I wasn't suggesting using NVDA+r to read captchas, indeed my other comment was that we CAN'T build a feature which will reliably do that - for the very reason that if we could, so could the people (or bots) the captchas are designed to stop in the first place.  My suggestion for NVDA+r was in the case of someone's contact details being provided in an image - at least that was my understanding but maybe the question was simply how to get past the captcha to get to the contact details, in which case no, NVDA+r won't work there.

 

Quentin.

 

On Thu, Oct 28, 2021 at 1:03 AM Jackie <abletec@...> wrote:

The accuracy of this tool to decipher captchas is so questionable as
to make it virtually useless in that regard.

On 10/27/21, David Russell <david.sonofhashem@...> wrote:
> Hi NVDA Group,
>
> Thanks for the advisement to use the NVDA key and the letter r to
> address the email image issue.
> This is different from audio captcha.
> To the website administrator, this image feature is to deter spammers
> and the like from sending unwanted communications. I hasten to ask,
> what is to prevent such activity if one sending spam realizes they can
> override the intention of a website admin by acquiring NVDA and
> misusing this feature?
> This begs the question, would it be good practice to inform the admin
> that blind persons can use the NVDA screen reader and utilize a
> feature to send email via the presented image?
>
> I think it's great to provide technology solutions, but as the adage
> states, idle hands are mischief's workshop.
> Best,
>
> --
> David C. Russell, Author
>
>
>
>
>
>


--
Subscribe to a WordPress for Newbies Mailing List by sending a message to:
wp4newbs-request@... with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by
visiting the list page at http://www.freelists.org/list/wp4newbs
& check out my sites at www.brightstarsweb.com & www.mysitesbeenhacked.com





 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager