NVDA and LibreOffice Calc


Cearbhall O'Meadhra
 

Brian,

 

Thanks for taking a shot at this, I appreciate the careful detail that you suggest.

 

I should explain that I am advising someone else who created this spreadsheet so my detail is somewhat limited.

The spreadsheet was created in LibreOffice calc. The person who created this is a recently established user of NVDA. He applied the NVDA + shift + c and NVDA + shift + r commands to try to set up the first row and column as column and row headers respectively. NVDA did not confirm them as being established. In fact, NVDA would only read out the cell coordinates even though he has Tables, Row and column headings and cell coordinates all checked in the Document settings of NVDA.

He saved the newly created spreadsheet as a .xlx which Calc indicated was an excel format.

 

He could not confirm whether the column and row headings had been set because his NVDA would only give him the cell coordinates and nothing about headings.

 

He subsequently sent the .xlsx format of the spreadsheet to me where I uploaded it into a full excel 2019 application. I found the row and column headings had, indeed, been set by him and worked perfectly with NVDA in my Excel program.

 

It is a mystery as to how he managed to set the row and column headings since NVDA refuses to speak them in the same spreadsheet in calc.

 

For the reasons outlined above, we are now asking if:

  1. Should NVDA be able to operate in LibreOffice Calc ;
  2. Are there NVDA keystrokes that will cause the row and column headings to be spoken in LibreOffice calc;
  3. Failing a positive answer to the last two questions, is there any way in LibreOffice calc to determine if the row and column headings have been successfully set?

 

 

All the best,

 

Cearbhall

 

m +353 (0)833323487 Ph: _353 (0)1-2864623 e: cearbhall.omeadhra@...

 

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Friday, November 19, 2021 6:36 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and Libre Office Calc

 

Cearbhall,

I hate even giving this response, but it's a suggestion based on a hunch.  The commands you give from NVDA are, if memory serves, NVDA specific and are used on an Excel spreadsheet where the person who created the spreadsheet did not use the Excel row and column heading feature that carries this information along with the xlsx file itself so that other users don't have to go "the screen reader route" of defining these each time the file is opened.

Have you tried using the Excel built-in heading definition function, then opening a file saved with same in Calc to see if it makes any difference in what NVDA can pick up under Calc?
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all.

         ~ John F. Kennedy

 




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Cearbhall,

A couple more general observations:

1.  Although LibreOffice is accessible, by and large, it is not as "nicely accessible" as Microsoft Office is.

2.  Microsoft Office, being the de facto standard Office suite of the world (and anyone who wants to argue that with me, don't bother, I've been in the private and public sector in the USA and paying attention to users overseas in these very forums - Microsoft Office vastly predominates) the various screen reader developers focus on compatibility with it, first, for very good reason.  When you've got limited resources, you focus where they have the most impact.

3.  Screen readers are directly dependent on what the software they're working with exposes to them for auditory presentation.  It doesn't matter if it's an XLSX file if LibreOffice does not expose certain elements of the file structure to NVDA (or JAWS, or whatever screen reader) for presentation to the user.  There's a lot of "handshaking" type information exchange, and if one hand is not extended, the other can't grab it.

My guess is that it's item number three in my above observations that accounts for the difference in what NVDA is able to present when using precisely the same file in MS-Excel versus LibreOffice.  It likely lies in what Excel versus LibreOffice exposes to NVDA.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all.

         ~ John F. Kennedy

 


Richard B. McDonald
 

I should like to add to all the below 1) everything that Brian says is correct and 2) there is presently underway a significant effort to improve Libre Office’s accessibility with NVDA, especially as it appertains to Calc and Writer under Windows.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Friday, November 19, 2021 4:03 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and LibreOffice Calc

 

Cearbhall,

A couple more general observations:

1.  Although LibreOffice is accessible, by and large, it is not as "nicely accessible" as Microsoft Office is.

2.  Microsoft Office, being the de facto standard Office suite of the world (and anyone who wants to argue that with me, don't bother, I've been in the private and public sector in the USA and paying attention to users overseas in these very forums - Microsoft Office vastly predominates) the various screen reader developers focus on compatibility with it, first, for very good reason.  When you've got limited resources, you focus where they have the most impact.

3.  Screen readers are directly dependent on what the software they're working with exposes to them for auditory presentation.  It doesn't matter if it's an XLSX file if LibreOffice does not expose certain elements of the file structure to NVDA (or JAWS, or whatever screen reader) for presentation to the user.  There's a lot of "handshaking" type information exchange, and if one hand is not extended, the other can't grab it.

My guess is that it's item number three in my above observations that accounts for the difference in what NVDA is able to present when using precisely the same file in MS-Excel versus LibreOffice.  It likely lies in what Excel versus LibreOffice exposes to NVDA.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all.

         ~ John F. Kennedy