NVDA and natural voices


Şenolcan HANCI
 

Hello friends. As you know with Windows 11 22h2 new natural voices are available, although for english USA for now. İ have a question. To see these voices in NVDA, does Microsoft or NVDA developers should take a step and can we do something for this

 

Windows için Posta ile gönderildi

 


David Goldfield
 

When Jeff Bishop from Microsoft was a panelist at the 2022 ACB convention I did ask if the new natural voices might become available for third party screen readers. He said that they were only available for Narrator and I knew that attempting to try to get more information out of him by asking follow-up questions would probably be fruitless. This doesn’t mean we’ll never see them for other screen readers but it’s pretty clear to me that Microsoft has no immediate plans for this.

 

David Goldfield,

Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist

NVDA Certified Expert

 

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive news, events and information regarding the blindness assistive technology field.

Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

www.DavidGoldfield.org

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Senolcan HANCI
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2022 9:30 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Integration <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Subject: [nvda] NVDA and natural voices

 

Hello friends. As you know with Windows 11 22h2 new natural voices are available, although for english USA for now. İ have a question. To see these voices in NVDA, does Microsoft or NVDA developers should take a step and can we do something for this

 

Windows için Posta ile gönderildi

 


Gene
 

This youtube video let's you hear at least a little of the voices, I didn't listen to all of it so I don't know if more samples are provided later.  But the really important thing is that it tells you how to hear them on any system using Edge. 

You can have material more than just a short sample spoken.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdQitJEuyug

Gene
Gene

On 9/22/2022 8:30 PM, Şenolcan HANCI wrote:

Hello friends. As you know with Windows 11 22h2 new natural voices are available, although for english USA for now. İ have a question. To see these voices in NVDA, does Microsoft or NVDA developers should take a step and can we do something for this

 

Windows için Posta ile gönderildi

 



Gene
 

The person doing the video keeps repeating how natural the voices sound, as though a natural sounding voice in and of itself is an extraordinary achievement.  We've had natural sounding voices for a long time.  Having natural sounding voices is common these days.  Its other characteristics of a lot of these voices that cause me to dislike them. 

If the behavior of the voices using Edge is what you get when using them in Windows 11, they currently have characteristics that would lead me to not use the voices. 

By far the most important one is the ridiculously long pauses at the ends of sentences. 
If this occurs in Narrator and not just in Edge, those long, long pauses are maddening to the point where I wouldn't consider using the voices as long as the pauses can't be adjusted by the user and greatly shortened. 

Also, inflection is too high and there is a slight sing-songy quality to the inflection. 

The voices may be quite good if these defects are eliminated. 

Do these problems exist when using the voices with Narrator?  Those interested in using these voices, if these problems exist when using Narrator, and if you object to them, may wish to contact Microsoft about them.

Gene

On 9/22/2022 10:12 PM, Gene via groups.io wrote:
This youtube video let's you hear at least a little of the voices, I didn't listen to all of it so I don't know if more samples are provided later.  But the really important thing is that it tells you how to hear them on any system using Edge. 

You can have material more than just a short sample spoken.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdQitJEuyug

Gene
Gene

On 9/22/2022 8:30 PM, Şenolcan HANCI wrote:

Hello friends. As you know with Windows 11 22h2 new natural voices are available, although for english USA for now. İ have a question. To see these voices in NVDA, does Microsoft or NVDA developers should take a step and can we do something for this

 

Windows için Posta ile gönderildi

 




David Goldfield
 

Gene,

When using these voices in Narrator you definitely don’t have unnatural pauses at the end of each sentence. I understand your point of view in that we’ve had many human sounding voices for quite some time but, to me, human sounding doesn’t always mean that they sound natural. Some of the Nuance voices, while they sound human, have a quality about them that sounds unnatural and electronic and that odd nonhuman aspect isn’t as noticeable with these new voices. Then again, that’s just my perception and as I’m sure you’d agree a voice that may sound fabulous to my ear might sound jarring or problematic to yours.

 

David Goldfield,

Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist

NVDA Certified Expert

 

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive news, events and information regarding the blindness assistive technology field.

Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

www.DavidGoldfield.org

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2022 11:39 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and natural voices

 

The person doing the video keeps repeating how natural the voices sound, as though a natural sounding voice in and of itself is an extraordinary achievement.  We've had natural sounding voices for a long time.  Having natural sounding voices is common these days.  Its other characteristics of a lot of these voices that cause me to dislike them. 

If the behavior of the voices using Edge is what you get when using them in Windows 11, they currently have characteristics that would lead me to not use the voices. 

By far the most important one is the ridiculously long pauses at the ends of sentences. 
If this occurs in Narrator and not just in Edge, those long, long pauses are maddening to the point where I wouldn't consider using the voices as long as the pauses can't be adjusted by the user and greatly shortened. 

Also, inflection is too high and there is a slight sing-songy quality to the inflection. 

The voices may be quite good if these defects are eliminated. 

Do these problems exist when using the voices with Narrator?  Those interested in using these voices, if these problems exist when using Narrator, and if you object to them, may wish to contact Microsoft about them.

Gene

On 9/22/2022 10:12 PM, Gene via groups.io wrote:

This youtube video let's you hear at least a little of the voices, I didn't listen to all of it so I don't know if more samples are provided later.  But the really important thing is that it tells you how to hear them on any system using Edge. 

You can have material more than just a short sample spoken.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdQitJEuyug

Gene
Gene

On 9/22/2022 8:30 PM, Şenolcan HANCI wrote:

Hello friends. As you know with Windows 11 22h2 new natural voices are available, although for english USA for now. İ have a question. To see these voices in NVDA, does Microsoft or NVDA developers should take a step and can we do something for this

 

Windows için Posta ile gönderildi

 

 

 


Şenolcan HANCI
 

As far as İ see long pouse isn’t exist in narrator so İ don’t have that problem in narrator

 

Windows için Posta ile gönderildi

 

Kimden: Gene
Gönderilme: 23 Eylül 2022 Cuma 06:39
Kime: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Konu: Re: [nvda] NVDA and natural voices

 

The person doing the video keeps repeating how natural the voices sound, as though a natural sounding voice in and of itself is an extraordinary achievement.  We've had natural sounding voices for a long time.  Having natural sounding voices is common these days.  Its other characteristics of a lot of these voices that cause me to dislike them. 

If the behavior of the voices using Edge is what you get when using them in Windows 11, they currently have characteristics that would lead me to not use the voices. 

By far the most important one is the ridiculously long pauses at the ends of sentences. 
If this occurs in Narrator and not just in Edge, those long, long pauses are maddening to the point where I wouldn't consider using the voices as long as the pauses can't be adjusted by the user and greatly shortened. 

Also, inflection is too high and there is a slight sing-songy quality to the inflection. 

The voices may be quite good if these defects are eliminated. 

Do these problems exist when using the voices with Narrator?  Those interested in using these voices, if these problems exist when using Narrator, and if you object to them, may wish to contact Microsoft about them.

Gene

On 9/22/2022 10:12 PM, Gene via groups.io wrote:

This youtube video let's you hear at least a little of the voices, I didn't listen to all of it so I don't know if more samples are provided later.  But the really important thing is that it tells you how to hear them on any system using Edge. 

You can have material more than just a short sample spoken.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdQitJEuyug

Gene
Gene

On 9/22/2022 8:30 PM, Şenolcan HANCI wrote:

Hello friends. As you know with Windows 11 22h2 new natural voices are available, although for english USA for now. İ have a question. To see these voices in NVDA, does Microsoft or NVDA developers should take a step and can we do something for this

 

Windows için Posta ile gönderildi

 

 

 

 


Şenolcan HANCI
 

But long pouse in Microsoft edge is normal because these voices are working as online

 

Windows için Posta ile gönderildi

 

Kimden: Gene
Gönderilme: 23 Eylül 2022 Cuma 06:39
Kime: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Konu: Re: [nvda] NVDA and natural voices

 

The person doing the video keeps repeating how natural the voices sound, as though a natural sounding voice in and of itself is an extraordinary achievement.  We've had natural sounding voices for a long time.  Having natural sounding voices is common these days.  Its other characteristics of a lot of these voices that cause me to dislike them. 

If the behavior of the voices using Edge is what you get when using them in Windows 11, they currently have characteristics that would lead me to not use the voices. 

By far the most important one is the ridiculously long pauses at the ends of sentences. 
If this occurs in Narrator and not just in Edge, those long, long pauses are maddening to the point where I wouldn't consider using the voices as long as the pauses can't be adjusted by the user and greatly shortened. 

Also, inflection is too high and there is a slight sing-songy quality to the inflection. 

The voices may be quite good if these defects are eliminated. 

Do these problems exist when using the voices with Narrator?  Those interested in using these voices, if these problems exist when using Narrator, and if you object to them, may wish to contact Microsoft about them.

Gene

On 9/22/2022 10:12 PM, Gene via groups.io wrote:

This youtube video let's you hear at least a little of the voices, I didn't listen to all of it so I don't know if more samples are provided later.  But the really important thing is that it tells you how to hear them on any system using Edge. 

You can have material more than just a short sample spoken.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdQitJEuyug

Gene
Gene

On 9/22/2022 8:30 PM, Şenolcan HANCI wrote:

Hello friends. As you know with Windows 11 22h2 new natural voices are available, although for english USA for now. İ have a question. To see these voices in NVDA, does Microsoft or NVDA developers should take a step and can we do something for this

 

Windows için Posta ile gönderildi

 

 

 

 


Gene
 

By human sounding, I mean the actual voice itself.  Different people may have different definitions.  I consider things like inflection and pause length to be characteristics of speech, not of the sound of the voice. 

If the very long pauses don't occur in Narrator, then my main objection is removed if the pauses aren't too long.  Regardless, I think that inflection and pause length should be adjustable by the user.

Different people prefer different voices but I think that such characteristics should be adjustable in part because people have such differences.

I'm pleased that the long pauses don't exist in Narrator. 

Narrator in Windows 10 doesn't let you adjust inflection.  I hope it does in Windows 11.  I would want less inflection in the natural voices.

Perhaps others may comment about whether, ignoring the long pauses in Edge read aloud, you get a good idea of the sound and inflection of the voices when listening in Edge.

Gene
Gene

On 9/22/2022 10:47 PM, David Goldfield wrote:

Gene,

When using these voices in Narrator you definitely don’t have unnatural pauses at the end of each sentence. I understand your point of view in that we’ve had many human sounding voices for quite some time but, to me, human sounding doesn’t always mean that they sound natural. Some of the Nuance voices, while they sound human, have a quality about them that sounds unnatural and electronic and that odd nonhuman aspect isn’t as noticeable with these new voices. Then again, that’s just my perception and as I’m sure you’d agree a voice that may sound fabulous to my ear might sound jarring or problematic to yours.

 

David Goldfield,

Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist

NVDA Certified Expert

 

Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive news, events and information regarding the blindness assistive technology field.

Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io

www.DavidGoldfield.org

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2022 11:39 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and natural voices

 

The person doing the video keeps repeating how natural the voices sound, as though a natural sounding voice in and of itself is an extraordinary achievement.  We've had natural sounding voices for a long time.  Having natural sounding voices is common these days.  Its other characteristics of a lot of these voices that cause me to dislike them. 

If the behavior of the voices using Edge is what you get when using them in Windows 11, they currently have characteristics that would lead me to not use the voices. 

By far the most important one is the ridiculously long pauses at the ends of sentences. 
If this occurs in Narrator and not just in Edge, those long, long pauses are maddening to the point where I wouldn't consider using the voices as long as the pauses can't be adjusted by the user and greatly shortened. 

Also, inflection is too high and there is a slight sing-songy quality to the inflection. 

The voices may be quite good if these defects are eliminated. 

Do these problems exist when using the voices with Narrator?  Those interested in using these voices, if these problems exist when using Narrator, and if you object to them, may wish to contact Microsoft about them.

Gene

On 9/22/2022 10:12 PM, Gene via groups.io wrote:

This youtube video let's you hear at least a little of the voices, I didn't listen to all of it so I don't know if more samples are provided later.  But the really important thing is that it tells you how to hear them on any system using Edge. 

You can have material more than just a short sample spoken.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdQitJEuyug

Gene
Gene

On 9/22/2022 8:30 PM, Şenolcan HANCI wrote:

Hello friends. As you know with Windows 11 22h2 new natural voices are available, although for english USA for now. İ have a question. To see these voices in NVDA, does Microsoft or NVDA developers should take a step and can we do something for this

 

Windows için Posta ile gönderildi

 

 

 



Gene
 

There is no reason long pauses are necessary if the voices are online.  People use voice assistants routinely and they don't have long pauses at the ends of sentences.

Gene

On 9/22/2022 11:01 PM, Şenolcan HANCI wrote:

But long pouse in Microsoft edge is normal because these voices are working as online

 

Windows için Posta ile gönderildi

 

Kimden: Gene
Gönderilme: 23 Eylül 2022 Cuma 06:39
Kime: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Konu: Re: [nvda] NVDA and natural voices

 

The person doing the video keeps repeating how natural the voices sound, as though a natural sounding voice in and of itself is an extraordinary achievement.  We've had natural sounding voices for a long time.  Having natural sounding voices is common these days.  Its other characteristics of a lot of these voices that cause me to dislike them. 

If the behavior of the voices using Edge is what you get when using them in Windows 11, they currently have characteristics that would lead me to not use the voices. 

By far the most important one is the ridiculously long pauses at the ends of sentences. 
If this occurs in Narrator and not just in Edge, those long, long pauses are maddening to the point where I wouldn't consider using the voices as long as the pauses can't be adjusted by the user and greatly shortened. 

Also, inflection is too high and there is a slight sing-songy quality to the inflection. 

The voices may be quite good if these defects are eliminated. 

Do these problems exist when using the voices with Narrator?  Those interested in using these voices, if these problems exist when using Narrator, and if you object to them, may wish to contact Microsoft about them.

Gene

On 9/22/2022 10:12 PM, Gene via groups.io wrote:

This youtube video let's you hear at least a little of the voices, I didn't listen to all of it so I don't know if more samples are provided later.  But the really important thing is that it tells you how to hear them on any system using Edge. 

You can have material more than just a short sample spoken.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdQitJEuyug

Gene
Gene

On 9/22/2022 8:30 PM, Şenolcan HANCI wrote:

Hello friends. As you know with Windows 11 22h2 new natural voices are available, although for english USA for now. İ have a question. To see these voices in NVDA, does Microsoft or NVDA developers should take a step and can we do something for this

 

Windows için Posta ile gönderildi

 

 

 

 



Brian's Mail list account
 

I think these voices are only meant to read documents. You can to some extent speed them up and slow them down, but I would imagine the reason they are only available to Microsoft is that they have actually not written the API yet needed for external use.
Brian

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Sent via blueyonder.(Virgin media)
Please address personal E-mail to:-
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in the display name field.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <gsasner@...>
To: <nvda@nvda.groups.io>
Sent: Friday, September 23, 2022 4:39 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA and natural voices


The person doing the video keeps repeating how natural the voices sound,
as though a natural sounding voice in and of itself is an extraordinary
achievement. We've had natural sounding voices for a long time. Having
natural sounding voices is common these days. Its other characteristics
of a lot of these voices that cause me to dislike them.

If the behavior of the voices using Edge is what you get when using them
in Windows 11, they currently have characteristics that would lead me to
not use the voices.

By far the most important one is the ridiculously long pauses at the
ends of sentences.
If this occurs in Narrator and not just in Edge, those long, long pauses
are maddening to the point where I wouldn't consider using the voices as
long as the pauses can't be adjusted by the user and greatly shortened.

Also, inflection is too high and there is a slight sing-songy quality to
the inflection.

The voices may be quite good if these defects are eliminated.

Do these problems exist when using the voices with Narrator? Those
interested in using these voices, if these problems exist when using
Narrator, and if you object to them, may wish to contact Microsoft about
them.

Gene
On 9/22/2022 10:12 PM, Gene via groups.io wrote:
This youtube video let's you hear at least a little of the voices, I
didn't listen to all of it so I don't know if more samples are
provided later. But the really important thing is that it tells you
how to hear them on any system using Edge.

You can have material more than just a short sample spoken.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdQitJEuyug

Gene
Gene

On 9/22/2022 8:30 PM, Şenolcan HANCI wrote:

Hello friends. As you know with Windows 11 22h2 new natural voices
are available, although for english USA for now. İ have a question.
To see these voices in NVDA, does Microsoft or NVDA developers should
take a step and can we do something for this

Windows için Posta <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>
ile gönderildi





Louise Pfau
 

On Thu, Sep 22, 2022 at 07:36 PM, David Goldfield wrote:

When Jeff Bishop from Microsoft was a panelist at the 2022 ACB convention I did ask if the new natural voices might become available for third party screen readers. He said that they were only available for Narrator and I knew that attempting to try to get more information out of him by asking follow-up questions would probably be fruitless. This doesn’t mean we’ll never see them for other screen readers but it’s pretty clear to me that Microsoft has no immediate plans for this.

What synthesizer does NVDA use by default in Windows 11?  It uses the Windows OneCore voices in Windows 10.

Thanks,

Louise