nvda and thunderbird send later


William
 

Hello,

not sure if this is a nvda bug or thunderbird bug.


According to the user support page of thunderbird, user can trigger send later and select a scheduled time and date that the email to be sent later, by pressing ctrl shift enter or selecting from the file menu.


But after pressing the above hotkey or choosing the function from the file menu, nvda cannot access the time and date selector of the thunderbird, which NVDA just says unknown.


Thanks,

William


Ron Canazzi
 

Hi William,

I am not sure what is actually happening here. When I open a new message for composition, write it and then either use the file menu or the hotkey control + shift + enter, I hear nothing, but I see the message in the outbox and can send it at any time I chose after words by choosing the send unsent messages from the file menu with alt + F followed by D.  This is where we need sighted eyes to tell us exactly what is happening: Brian are you listening?

On 4/28/2022 9:50 PM, William wrote:
Hello,

not sure if this is a nvda bug or thunderbird bug.


According to the user support page of thunderbird, user can trigger send later and select a scheduled time and date that the email to be sent later, by pressing ctrl shift enter or selecting from the file menu.


But after pressing the above hotkey or choosing the function from the file menu, nvda cannot access the time and date selector of the thunderbird, which NVDA just says unknown.


Thanks,

William







--
Signature:
For a nation to admit it has done grevous wrongs and will strive to correct them for the betterment of all is no vice;
For a nation to claim it has always been great, needs no improvement and to cling to its past achievements is no virtue!


Gene
 

If that's what the support page says, it may be incorrect.  While NVDA does say unknown when you are in the main program window and you tab around to many fields you wouldn't use for e-mail, I see no evidence that you are given the chance to select a time and date to send a message.  When I use the send later command, as far as I can tell, I am placed in the message list, where I was before I started a new message.  I can up or down arrow in the list of messages just as I would otherwise.  When I use JAWS, more fields are read but nothing that I can tell having a bearing on when to send messages.

If other people know differently, and if they are following the thread, we may find out.

Meantime, the messages evidently just sit there in the outbox until I send another message or until I open the program again.  At that time, I get a do you want to send now or later dialog.

Gene

On 4/28/2022 8:50 PM, William wrote:
Hello,

not sure if this is a nvda bug or thunderbird bug.


According to the user support page of thunderbird, user can trigger send later and select a scheduled time and date that the email to be sent later, by pressing ctrl shift enter or selecting from the file menu.


But after pressing the above hotkey or choosing the function from the file menu, nvda cannot access the time and date selector of the thunderbird, which NVDA just says unknown.


Thanks,

William








Gene
 

A correction.  When I send a message after using the send later command, the message I have deferred isn't sent.  That message needs to be sent as I described earlier or as Ron described.

Gene

On 4/28/2022 9:34 PM, Gene via groups.io wrote:
If that's what the support page says, it may be incorrect.  While NVDA does say unknown when you are in the main program window and you tab around to many fields you wouldn't use for e-mail, I see no evidence that you are given the chance to select a time and date to send a message.  When I use the send later command, as far as I can tell, I am placed in the message list, where I was before I started a new message.  I can up or down arrow in the list of messages just as I would otherwise.  When I use JAWS, more fields are read but nothing that I can tell having a bearing on when to send messages.

If other people know differently, and if they are following the thread, we may find out.

Meantime, the messages evidently just sit there in the outbox until I send another message or until I open the program again. At that time, I get a do you want to send now or later dialog.

Gene

On 4/28/2022 8:50 PM, William wrote:
Hello,

not sure if this is a nvda bug or thunderbird bug.


According to the user support page of thunderbird, user can trigger send later and select a scheduled time and date that the email to be sent later, by pressing ctrl shift enter or selecting from the file menu.


But after pressing the above hotkey or choosing the function from the file menu, nvda cannot access the time and date selector of the thunderbird, which NVDA just says unknown.


Thanks,

William












Gene
 

I just looked at the support page and, though I had my doubts, it appears to be correct.  I'll play around with this but the problem appears to be that we aren't placed in the popup window with the scheduling options, but are in the main program window.  The message window closes because we've told Thunderbird we want to send it later and we are returned to the main Window.

I'm going to see if I can find the popup window.

Gene

On 4/28/2022 9:37 PM, Gene wrote:
A correction.  When I send a message after using the send later command, the message I have deferred isn't sent.  That message needs to be sent as I described earlier or as Ron described.

Gene

On 4/28/2022 9:34 PM, Gene via groups.io wrote:
If that's what the support page says, it may be incorrect.  While NVDA does say unknown when you are in the main program window and you tab around to many fields you wouldn't use for e-mail, I see no evidence that you are given the chance to select a time and date to send a message.  When I use the send later command, as far as I can tell, I am placed in the message list, where I was before I started a new message.  I can up or down arrow in the list of messages just as I would otherwise.  When I use JAWS, more fields are read but nothing that I can tell having a bearing on when to send messages.

If other people know differently, and if they are following the thread, we may find out.

Meantime, the messages evidently just sit there in the outbox until I send another message or until I open the program again. At that time, I get a do you want to send now or later dialog.

Gene

On 4/28/2022 8:50 PM, William wrote:
Hello,

not sure if this is a nvda bug or thunderbird bug.


According to the user support page of thunderbird, user can trigger send later and select a scheduled time and date that the email to be sent later, by pressing ctrl shift enter or selecting from the file menu.


But after pressing the above hotkey or choosing the function from the file menu, nvda cannot access the time and date selector of the thunderbird, which NVDA just says unknown.


Thanks,

William












Gene
 

I looked and I didn't find a different window.  I thought I recalled seeing a number of unknown fields when I hadn't used the send later command and was tabbing around the main window but when I just looked, I didn't see them.  I'm not sure what the case is.  I did see three or four unknown fields after I used the send later option and they may be the fields you would use to set when the message is sent.

Gene

On 4/28/2022 9:37 PM, Gene via groups.io wrote:
A correction.  When I send a message after using the send later command, the message I have deferred isn't sent.  That message needs to be sent as I described earlier or as Ron described.

Gene

On 4/28/2022 9:34 PM, Gene via groups.io wrote:
If that's what the support page says, it may be incorrect.  While NVDA does say unknown when you are in the main program window and you tab around to many fields you wouldn't use for e-mail, I see no evidence that you are given the chance to select a time and date to send a message.  When I use the send later command, as far as I can tell, I am placed in the message list, where I was before I started a new message.  I can up or down arrow in the list of messages just as I would otherwise.  When I use JAWS, more fields are read but nothing that I can tell having a bearing on when to send messages.

If other people know differently, and if they are following the thread, we may find out.

Meantime, the messages evidently just sit there in the outbox until I send another message or until I open the program again. At that time, I get a do you want to send now or later dialog.

Gene

On 4/28/2022 8:50 PM, William wrote:
Hello,

not sure if this is a nvda bug or thunderbird bug.


According to the user support page of thunderbird, user can trigger send later and select a scheduled time and date that the email to be sent later, by pressing ctrl shift enter or selecting from the file menu.


But after pressing the above hotkey or choosing the function from the file menu, nvda cannot access the time and date selector of the thunderbird, which NVDA just says unknown.


Thanks,

William
















Gene
 

A correction.

I was confused about the unknown fields.  I have an old version of Thunderbird portable on my machine and the current version.  The current version doesn't have unknown fields either when I am in the main Window or after I issue the send later command and am placed back in the main window.

It appears there is an inaccessible window that comes up when you issue the send later command and that you are placed in the main window.

Gene.

Gene

On 4/28/2022 9:51 PM, Gene wrote:
I looked and I didn't find a different window.  I thought I recalled seeing a number of unknown fields when I hadn't used the send later command and was tabbing around the main window but when I just looked, I didn't see them.  I'm not sure what the case is.  I did see three or four unknown fields after I used the send later option and they may be the fields you would use to set when the message is sent.

Gene

On 4/28/2022 9:37 PM, Gene via groups.io wrote:
A correction.  When I send a message after using the send later command, the message I have deferred isn't sent.  That message needs to be sent as I described earlier or as Ron described.

Gene

On 4/28/2022 9:34 PM, Gene via groups.io wrote:
If that's what the support page says, it may be incorrect.  While NVDA does say unknown when you are in the main program window and you tab around to many fields you wouldn't use for e-mail, I see no evidence that you are given the chance to select a time and date to send a message.  When I use the send later command, as far as I can tell, I am placed in the message list, where I was before I started a new message.  I can up or down arrow in the list of messages just as I would otherwise.  When I use JAWS, more fields are read but nothing that I can tell having a bearing on when to send messages.

If other people know differently, and if they are following the thread, we may find out.

Meantime, the messages evidently just sit there in the outbox until I send another message or until I open the program again. At that time, I get a do you want to send now or later dialog.

Gene

On 4/28/2022 8:50 PM, William wrote:
Hello,

not sure if this is a nvda bug or thunderbird bug.


According to the user support page of thunderbird, user can trigger send later and select a scheduled time and date that the email to be sent later, by pressing ctrl shift enter or selecting from the file menu.


But after pressing the above hotkey or choosing the function from the file menu, nvda cannot access the time and date selector of the thunderbird, which NVDA just says unknown.


Thanks,

William
















William
 

I am using 91.8.1 version of thunderbird.

I am wondering are those unknown objects the selector of date and time.


Gene 於 29/4/2022 10:57 寫道:

A correction.

I was confused about the unknown fields.  I have an old version of Thunderbird portable on my machine and the current version.  The current version doesn't have unknown fields either when I am in the main Window or after I issue the send later command and am placed back in the main window.

It appears there is an inaccessible window that comes up when you issue the send later command and that you are placed in the main window.

Gene.

Gene

On 4/28/2022 9:51 PM, Gene wrote:
I looked and I didn't find a different window.  I thought I recalled seeing a number of unknown fields when I hadn't used the send later command and was tabbing around the main window but when I just looked, I didn't see them.  I'm not sure what the case is.  I did see three or four unknown fields after I used the send later option and they may be the fields you would use to set when the message is sent.

Gene

On 4/28/2022 9:37 PM, Gene via groups.io wrote:
A correction.  When I send a message after using the send later command, the message I have deferred isn't sent.  That message needs to be sent as I described earlier or as Ron described.

Gene

On 4/28/2022 9:34 PM, Gene via groups.io wrote:
If that's what the support page says, it may be incorrect.  While NVDA does say unknown when you are in the main program window and you tab around to many fields you wouldn't use for e-mail, I see no evidence that you are given the chance to select a time and date to send a message.  When I use the send later command, as far as I can tell, I am placed in the message list, where I was before I started a new message.  I can up or down arrow in the list of messages just as I would otherwise.  When I use JAWS, more fields are read but nothing that I can tell having a bearing on when to send messages.

If other people know differently, and if they are following the thread, we may find out.

Meantime, the messages evidently just sit there in the outbox until I send another message or until I open the program again. At that time, I get a do you want to send now or later dialog.

Gene

On 4/28/2022 8:50 PM, William wrote:
Hello,

not sure if this is a nvda bug or thunderbird bug.


According to the user support page of thunderbird, user can trigger send later and select a scheduled time and date that the email to be sent later, by pressing ctrl shift enter or selecting from the file menu.


But after pressing the above hotkey or choosing the function from the file menu, nvda cannot access the time and date selector of the thunderbird, which NVDA just says unknown.


Thanks,

William




















Gene
 

I don't think so.  I think you will find that if you just open the program with no pending messages that you will find the same unknown items.  If you find less, that would imply that they are but I doubt you will.

Gene

On 4/28/2022 11:26 PM, William wrote:
I am using 91.8.1 version of thunderbird.

I am wondering are those unknown objects the selector of date and time.


Gene 於 29/4/2022 10:57 寫道:
A correction.

I was confused about the unknown fields.  I have an old version of Thunderbird portable on my machine and the current version.  The current version doesn't have unknown fields either when I am in the main Window or after I issue the send later command and am placed back in the main window.

It appears there is an inaccessible window that comes up when you issue the send later command and that you are placed in the main window.

Gene.

Gene

On 4/28/2022 9:51 PM, Gene wrote:
I looked and I didn't find a different window.  I thought I recalled seeing a number of unknown fields when I hadn't used the send later command and was tabbing around the main window but when I just looked, I didn't see them.  I'm not sure what the case is.  I did see three or four unknown fields after I used the send later option and they may be the fields you would use to set when the message is sent.

Gene

On 4/28/2022 9:37 PM, Gene via groups.io wrote:
A correction.  When I send a message after using the send later command, the message I have deferred isn't sent.  That message needs to be sent as I described earlier or as Ron described.

Gene

On 4/28/2022 9:34 PM, Gene via groups.io wrote:
If that's what the support page says, it may be incorrect.  While NVDA does say unknown when you are in the main program window and you tab around to many fields you wouldn't use for e-mail, I see no evidence that you are given the chance to select a time and date to send a message.  When I use the send later command, as far as I can tell, I am placed in the message list, where I was before I started a new message.  I can up or down arrow in the list of messages just as I would otherwise.  When I use JAWS, more fields are read but nothing that I can tell having a bearing on when to send messages.

If other people know differently, and if they are following the thread, we may find out.

Meantime, the messages evidently just sit there in the outbox until I send another message or until I open the program again. At that time, I get a do you want to send now or later dialog.

Gene

On 4/28/2022 8:50 PM, William wrote:
Hello,

not sure if this is a nvda bug or thunderbird bug.


According to the user support page of thunderbird, user can trigger send later and select a scheduled time and date that the email to be sent later, by pressing ctrl shift enter or selecting from the file menu.


But after pressing the above hotkey or choosing the function from the file menu, nvda cannot access the time and date selector of the thunderbird, which NVDA just says unknown.


Thanks,

William



































Curtis Delzer
 

appears to "disappear" when I issued the "send later" command under files, "control-shift-enter," and doesn't seem to appear in "drafts" either.

should we report this to t-bird developers?

On 4/28/2022 7:57 PM, Gene wrote:
A correction.

I was confused about the unknown fields.  I have an old version of Thunderbird portable on my machine and the current version.  The current version doesn't have unknown fields either when I am in the main Window or after I issue the send later command and am placed back in the main window.

It appears there is an inaccessible window that comes up when you issue the send later command and that you are placed in the main window.

Gene.

Gene

On 4/28/2022 9:51 PM, Gene wrote:
I looked and I didn't find a different window.  I thought I recalled seeing a number of unknown fields when I hadn't used the send later command and was tabbing around the main window but when I just looked, I didn't see them.  I'm not sure what the case is.  I did see three or four unknown fields after I used the send later option and they may be the fields you would use to set when the message is sent.

Gene

On 4/28/2022 9:37 PM, Gene via groups.io wrote:
A correction.  When I send a message after using the send later command, the message I have deferred isn't sent.  That message needs to be sent as I described earlier or as Ron described.

Gene

On 4/28/2022 9:34 PM, Gene via groups.io wrote:
If that's what the support page says, it may be incorrect.  While NVDA does say unknown when you are in the main program window and you tab around to many fields you wouldn't use for e-mail, I see no evidence that you are given the chance to select a time and date to send a message.  When I use the send later command, as far as I can tell, I am placed in the message list, where I was before I started a new message.  I can up or down arrow in the list of messages just as I would otherwise.  When I use JAWS, more fields are read but nothing that I can tell having a bearing on when to send messages.

If other people know differently, and if they are following the thread, we may find out.

Meantime, the messages evidently just sit there in the outbox until I send another message or until I open the program again. At that time, I get a do you want to send now or later dialog.

Gene

On 4/28/2022 8:50 PM, William wrote:
Hello,

not sure if this is a nvda bug or thunderbird bug.


According to the user support page of thunderbird, user can trigger send later and select a scheduled time and date that the email to be sent later, by pressing ctrl shift enter or selecting from the file menu.


But after pressing the above hotkey or choosing the function from the file menu, nvda cannot access the time and date selector of the thunderbird, which NVDA just says unknown.


Thanks,

William



















--
Curtis Delzer
H.S.
K6VFO
curtis@...


Gene
 

I don't have an opinion.  I would never use such a feature and I would consider that a very minor accessibility flaw.  If you consider it important enough to yourself  and to others to report it, than you may want to do so. 

Gene

On 4/29/2022 12:23 AM, Curtis Delzer wrote:
appears to "disappear" when I issued the "send later" command under files, "control-shift-enter," and doesn't seem to appear in "drafts" either.

should we report this to t-bird developers?

On 4/28/2022 7:57 PM, Gene wrote:
A correction.

I was confused about the unknown fields.  I have an old version of Thunderbird portable on my machine and the current version.  The current version doesn't have unknown fields either when I am in the main Window or after I issue the send later command and am placed back in the main window.

It appears there is an inaccessible window that comes up when you issue the send later command and that you are placed in the main window.

Gene.

Gene

On 4/28/2022 9:51 PM, Gene wrote:
I looked and I didn't find a different window.  I thought I recalled seeing a number of unknown fields when I hadn't used the send later command and was tabbing around the main window but when I just looked, I didn't see them.  I'm not sure what the case is.  I did see three or four unknown fields after I used the send later option and they may be the fields you would use to set when the message is sent.

Gene

On 4/28/2022 9:37 PM, Gene via groups.io wrote:
A correction.  When I send a message after using the send later command, the message I have deferred isn't sent.  That message needs to be sent as I described earlier or as Ron described.

Gene

On 4/28/2022 9:34 PM, Gene via groups.io wrote:
If that's what the support page says, it may be incorrect.  While NVDA does say unknown when you are in the main program window and you tab around to many fields you wouldn't use for e-mail, I see no evidence that you are given the chance to select a time and date to send a message.  When I use the send later command, as far as I can tell, I am placed in the message list, where I was before I started a new message.  I can up or down arrow in the list of messages just as I would otherwise.  When I use JAWS, more fields are read but nothing that I can tell having a bearing on when to send messages.

If other people know differently, and if they are following the thread, we may find out.

Meantime, the messages evidently just sit there in the outbox until I send another message or until I open the program again. At that time, I get a do you want to send now or later dialog.

Gene

On 4/28/2022 8:50 PM, William wrote:
Hello,

not sure if this is a nvda bug or thunderbird bug.


According to the user support page of thunderbird, user can trigger send later and select a scheduled time and date that the email to be sent later, by pressing ctrl shift enter or selecting from the file menu.


But after pressing the above hotkey or choosing the function from the file menu, nvda cannot access the time and date selector of the thunderbird, which NVDA just says unknown.


Thanks,

William






























Dave Grossoehme
 

I'd send a bug report to Thunderbird on this problem.  Jean, just because you don't use something, doesn't mean it shouldn't be corrected.

Dave

On 4/29/2022 1:23 AM, Curtis Delzer wrote:
appears to "disappear" when I issued the "send later" command under files, "control-shift-enter," and doesn't seem to appear in "drafts" either.

should we report this to t-bird developers?

On 4/28/2022 7:57 PM, Gene wrote:
A correction.

I was confused about the unknown fields.  I have an old version of Thunderbird portable on my machine and the current version. The current version doesn't have unknown fields either when I am in the main Window or after I issue the send later command and am placed back in the main window.

It appears there is an inaccessible window that comes up when you issue the send later command and that you are placed in the main window.

Gene.

Gene

On 4/28/2022 9:51 PM, Gene wrote:
I looked and I didn't find a different window.  I thought I recalled seeing a number of unknown fields when I hadn't used the send later command and was tabbing around the main window but when I just looked, I didn't see them.  I'm not sure what the case is.  I did see three or four unknown fields after I used the send later option and they may be the fields you would use to set when the message is sent.

Gene

On 4/28/2022 9:37 PM, Gene via groups.io wrote:
A correction.  When I send a message after using the send later command, the message I have deferred isn't sent.  That message needs to be sent as I described earlier or as Ron described.

Gene

On 4/28/2022 9:34 PM, Gene via groups.io wrote:
If that's what the support page says, it may be incorrect.  While NVDA does say unknown when you are in the main program window and you tab around to many fields you wouldn't use for e-mail, I see no evidence that you are given the chance to select a time and date to send a message.  When I use the send later command, as far as I can tell, I am placed in the message list, where I was before I started a new message.  I can up or down arrow in the list of messages just as I would otherwise.  When I use JAWS, more fields are read but nothing that I can tell having a bearing on when to send messages.

If other people know differently, and if they are following the thread, we may find out.

Meantime, the messages evidently just sit there in the outbox until I send another message or until I open the program again. At that time, I get a do you want to send now or later dialog.

Gene

On 4/28/2022 8:50 PM, William wrote:
Hello,

not sure if this is a nvda bug or thunderbird bug.


According to the user support page of thunderbird, user can trigger send later and select a scheduled time and date that the email to be sent later, by pressing ctrl shift enter or selecting from the file menu.


But after pressing the above hotkey or choosing the function from the file menu, nvda cannot access the time and date selector of the thunderbird, which NVDA just says unknown.


Thanks,

William





















 

On Fri, Apr 29, 2022 at 09:47 AM, Dave Grossoehme wrote:
Jean, just because you don't use something, doesn't mean it shouldn't be corrected.
-
And he never said that it shouldn't.  His post, immediately before yours, included, "If you consider it important enough to yourself  and to others to report it, than you may want to do so."

For the love of heaven, don't put words into people's mouths that they not only didn't say, or imply, but actually came out and clearly stated just the opposite!
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

You can't crush ideas by suppressing them. You can only crush them by ignoring them.
     ~ Ursula LeGuin, The Dispossessed


Gene
 

I did not say that because I don't use something doesn't mean it shouldn't be corrected.  I said that I consider it a minor accessibility flaw and that I don't use it.  I also said that if the person asking finds it important enough to report, he may.  I said I don't have an opinion about whether it should be reported, which is what was asked. 

Gene

On 4/29/2022 8:47 AM, Dave Grossoehme wrote:
I'd send a bug report to Thunderbird on this problem.  Jean, just because you don't use something, doesn't mean it shouldn't be corrected.

Dave


On 4/29/2022 1:23 AM, Curtis Delzer wrote:
appears to "disappear" when I issued the "send later" command under files, "control-shift-enter," and doesn't seem to appear in "drafts" either.

should we report this to t-bird developers?

On 4/28/2022 7:57 PM, Gene wrote:
A correction.

I was confused about the unknown fields.  I have an old version of Thunderbird portable on my machine and the current version. The current version doesn't have unknown fields either when I am in the main Window or after I issue the send later command and am placed back in the main window.

It appears there is an inaccessible window that comes up when you issue the send later command and that you are placed in the main window.

Gene.

Gene

On 4/28/2022 9:51 PM, Gene wrote:
I looked and I didn't find a different window.  I thought I recalled seeing a number of unknown fields when I hadn't used the send later command and was tabbing around the main window but when I just looked, I didn't see them.  I'm not sure what the case is.  I did see three or four unknown fields after I used the send later option and they may be the fields you would use to set when the message is sent.

Gene

On 4/28/2022 9:37 PM, Gene via groups.io wrote:
A correction.  When I send a message after using the send later command, the message I have deferred isn't sent.  That message needs to be sent as I described earlier or as Ron described.

Gene

On 4/28/2022 9:34 PM, Gene via groups.io wrote:
If that's what the support page says, it may be incorrect.  While NVDA does say unknown when you are in the main program window and you tab around to many fields you wouldn't use for e-mail, I see no evidence that you are given the chance to select a time and date to send a message.  When I use the send later command, as far as I can tell, I am placed in the message list, where I was before I started a new message.  I can up or down arrow in the list of messages just as I would otherwise.  When I use JAWS, more fields are read but nothing that I can tell having a bearing on when to send messages.

If other people know differently, and if they are following the thread, we may find out.

Meantime, the messages evidently just sit there in the outbox until I send another message or until I open the program again. At that time, I get a do you want to send now or later dialog.

Gene

On 4/28/2022 8:50 PM, William wrote:
Hello,

not sure if this is a nvda bug or thunderbird bug.


According to the user support page of thunderbird, user can trigger send later and select a scheduled time and date that the email to be sent later, by pressing ctrl shift enter or selecting from the file menu.


But after pressing the above hotkey or choosing the function from the file menu, nvda cannot access the time and date selector of the thunderbird, which NVDA just says unknown.


Thanks,

William

































.


Dave Grossoehme
 

Jean:  I apologize for cutting you down here.  However, if there is a bug it needs to be reported, no matter how miner it is.

Dave


On 4/29/2022 10:05 AM, Gene wrote:
I did not say that because I don't use something doesn't mean it shouldn't be corrected.  I said that I consider it a minor accessibility flaw and that I don't use it.  I also said that if the person asking finds it important enough to report, he may.  I said I don't have an opinion about whether it should be reported, which is what was asked. 

Gene

On 4/29/2022 8:47 AM, Dave Grossoehme wrote:
I'd send a bug report to Thunderbird on this problem.  Jean, just because you don't use something, doesn't mean it shouldn't be corrected.

Dave


On 4/29/2022 1:23 AM, Curtis Delzer wrote:
appears to "disappear" when I issued the "send later" command under files, "control-shift-enter," and doesn't seem to appear in "drafts" either.

should we report this to t-bird developers?

On 4/28/2022 7:57 PM, Gene wrote:
A correction.

I was confused about the unknown fields.  I have an old version of Thunderbird portable on my machine and the current version. The current version doesn't have unknown fields either when I am in the main Window or after I issue the send later command and am placed back in the main window.

It appears there is an inaccessible window that comes up when you issue the send later command and that you are placed in the main window.

Gene.

Gene

On 4/28/2022 9:51 PM, Gene wrote:
I looked and I didn't find a different window.  I thought I recalled seeing a number of unknown fields when I hadn't used the send later command and was tabbing around the main window but when I just looked, I didn't see them.  I'm not sure what the case is.  I did see three or four unknown fields after I used the send later option and they may be the fields you would use to set when the message is sent.

Gene

On 4/28/2022 9:37 PM, Gene via groups.io wrote:
A correction.  When I send a message after using the send later command, the message I have deferred isn't sent.  That message needs to be sent as I described earlier or as Ron described.

Gene

On 4/28/2022 9:34 PM, Gene via groups.io wrote:
If that's what the support page says, it may be incorrect.  While NVDA does say unknown when you are in the main program window and you tab around to many fields you wouldn't use for e-mail, I see no evidence that you are given the chance to select a time and date to send a message.  When I use the send later command, as far as I can tell, I am placed in the message list, where I was before I started a new message.  I can up or down arrow in the list of messages just as I would otherwise.  When I use JAWS, more fields are read but nothing that I can tell having a bearing on when to send messages.

If other people know differently, and if they are following the thread, we may find out.

Meantime, the messages evidently just sit there in the outbox until I send another message or until I open the program again. At that time, I get a do you want to send now or later dialog.

Gene

On 4/28/2022 8:50 PM, William wrote:
Hello,

not sure if this is a nvda bug or thunderbird bug.


According to the user support page of thunderbird, user can trigger send later and select a scheduled time and date that the email to be sent later, by pressing ctrl shift enter or selecting from the file menu.


But after pressing the above hotkey or choosing the function from the file menu, nvda cannot access the time and date selector of the thunderbird, which NVDA just says unknown.


Thanks,

William

































.


Gene
 

That isn't  necessarily true.  When I open portable versions of Thunderbird and Firefox, NVDA says S P.  I don't know why.  That might be considered a bug.  Is that worth reporting?  There are bugs that matter and bugs that don't.  There are bugs where the work around is so obvious and easy that, while someone may want to report it, it may not justify the time and work of the developer or developers to correct it and someone may be aware of the bug and not report it because it is so trivial.

Gene

On 4/29/2022 9:09 AM, Dave Grossoehme wrote:

Jean:  I apologize for cutting you down here.  However, if there is a bug it needs to be reported, no matter how miner it is.

Dave


On 4/29/2022 10:05 AM, Gene wrote:
I did not say that because I don't use something doesn't mean it shouldn't be corrected.  I said that I consider it a minor accessibility flaw and that I don't use it.  I also said that if the person asking finds it important enough to report, he may.  I said I don't have an opinion about whether it should be reported, which is what was asked. 

Gene

On 4/29/2022 8:47 AM, Dave Grossoehme wrote:
I'd send a bug report to Thunderbird on this problem.  Jean, just because you don't use something, doesn't mean it shouldn't be corrected.

Dave


On 4/29/2022 1:23 AM, Curtis Delzer wrote:
appears to "disappear" when I issued the "send later" command under files, "control-shift-enter," and doesn't seem to appear in "drafts" either.

should we report this to t-bird developers?

On 4/28/2022 7:57 PM, Gene wrote:
A correction.

I was confused about the unknown fields.  I have an old version of Thunderbird portable on my machine and the current version. The current version doesn't have unknown fields either when I am in the main Window or after I issue the send later command and am placed back in the main window.

It appears there is an inaccessible window that comes up when you issue the send later command and that you are placed in the main window.

Gene.

Gene

On 4/28/2022 9:51 PM, Gene wrote:
I looked and I didn't find a different window.  I thought I recalled seeing a number of unknown fields when I hadn't used the send later command and was tabbing around the main window but when I just looked, I didn't see them.  I'm not sure what the case is.  I did see three or four unknown fields after I used the send later option and they may be the fields you would use to set when the message is sent.

Gene

On 4/28/2022 9:37 PM, Gene via groups.io wrote:
A correction.  When I send a message after using the send later command, the message I have deferred isn't sent.  That message needs to be sent as I described earlier or as Ron described.

Gene

On 4/28/2022 9:34 PM, Gene via groups.io wrote:
If that's what the support page says, it may be incorrect.  While NVDA does say unknown when you are in the main program window and you tab around to many fields you wouldn't use for e-mail, I see no evidence that you are given the chance to select a time and date to send a message.  When I use the send later command, as far as I can tell, I am placed in the message list, where I was before I started a new message.  I can up or down arrow in the list of messages just as I would otherwise.  When I use JAWS, more fields are read but nothing that I can tell having a bearing on when to send messages.

If other people know differently, and if they are following the thread, we may find out.

Meantime, the messages evidently just sit there in the outbox until I send another message or until I open the program again. At that time, I get a do you want to send now or later dialog.

Gene

On 4/28/2022 8:50 PM, William wrote:
Hello,

not sure if this is a nvda bug or thunderbird bug.


According to the user support page of thunderbird, user can trigger send later and select a scheduled time and date that the email to be sent later, by pressing ctrl shift enter or selecting from the file menu.


But after pressing the above hotkey or choosing the function from the file menu, nvda cannot access the time and date selector of the thunderbird, which NVDA just says unknown.


Thanks,

William

































.



Gene
 

Or one person may consider it very trivial and not report it but another person may not.  But saying that every bug should be reported isn't necessarily true.

Gene

On 4/29/2022 9:13 AM, Gene wrote:
That isn't  necessarily true.  When I open portable versions of Thunderbird and Firefox, NVDA says S P.  I don't know why.  That might be considered a bug.  Is that worth reporting?  There are bugs that matter and bugs that don't.  There are bugs where the work around is so obvious and easy that, while someone may want to report it, it may not justify the time and work of the developer or developers to correct it and someone may be aware of the bug and not report it because it is so trivial.

Gene

On 4/29/2022 9:09 AM, Dave Grossoehme wrote:

Jean:  I apologize for cutting you down here.  However, if there is a bug it needs to be reported, no matter how miner it is.

Dave


On 4/29/2022 10:05 AM, Gene wrote:
I did not say that because I don't use something doesn't mean it shouldn't be corrected.  I said that I consider it a minor accessibility flaw and that I don't use it.  I also said that if the person asking finds it important enough to report, he may.  I said I don't have an opinion about whether it should be reported, which is what was asked. 

Gene

On 4/29/2022 8:47 AM, Dave Grossoehme wrote:
I'd send a bug report to Thunderbird on this problem.  Jean, just because you don't use something, doesn't mean it shouldn't be corrected.

Dave


On 4/29/2022 1:23 AM, Curtis Delzer wrote:
appears to "disappear" when I issued the "send later" command under files, "control-shift-enter," and doesn't seem to appear in "drafts" either.

should we report this to t-bird developers?

On 4/28/2022 7:57 PM, Gene wrote:
A correction.

I was confused about the unknown fields.  I have an old version of Thunderbird portable on my machine and the current version. The current version doesn't have unknown fields either when I am in the main Window or after I issue the send later command and am placed back in the main window.

It appears there is an inaccessible window that comes up when you issue the send later command and that you are placed in the main window.

Gene.

Gene

On 4/28/2022 9:51 PM, Gene wrote:
I looked and I didn't find a different window.  I thought I recalled seeing a number of unknown fields when I hadn't used the send later command and was tabbing around the main window but when I just looked, I didn't see them.  I'm not sure what the case is.  I did see three or four unknown fields after I used the send later option and they may be the fields you would use to set when the message is sent.

Gene

On 4/28/2022 9:37 PM, Gene via groups.io wrote:
A correction.  When I send a message after using the send later command, the message I have deferred isn't sent.  That message needs to be sent as I described earlier or as Ron described.

Gene

On 4/28/2022 9:34 PM, Gene via groups.io wrote:
If that's what the support page says, it may be incorrect.  While NVDA does say unknown when you are in the main program window and you tab around to many fields you wouldn't use for e-mail, I see no evidence that you are given the chance to select a time and date to send a message.  When I use the send later command, as far as I can tell, I am placed in the message list, where I was before I started a new message.  I can up or down arrow in the list of messages just as I would otherwise.  When I use JAWS, more fields are read but nothing that I can tell having a bearing on when to send messages.

If other people know differently, and if they are following the thread, we may find out.

Meantime, the messages evidently just sit there in the outbox until I send another message or until I open the program again. At that time, I get a do you want to send now or later dialog.

Gene

On 4/28/2022 8:50 PM, William wrote:
Hello,

not sure if this is a nvda bug or thunderbird bug.


According to the user support page of thunderbird, user can trigger send later and select a scheduled time and date that the email to be sent later, by pressing ctrl shift enter or selecting from the file menu.


But after pressing the above hotkey or choosing the function from the file menu, nvda cannot access the time and date selector of the thunderbird, which NVDA just says unknown.


Thanks,

William

































.




 

On Thu, Apr 28, 2022 at 10:31 PM, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Brian are you listening?
-
As of this morning.   Since I don't use this feature, and likely never would, I'd not looked at it at all before.   You have given an exact description of what Thunderbird actually does with messages that you use the "Send Later" option for.  Those messages are considered completed, not drafts, and they get stored in Thunderbird's local Outbox folder.  See:  Where does Thunderbird keep the "send later" messages?   It's ancient, but still accurate.

I'm not exactly sure what it is you're expecting here from NVDA.  I'm guessing something like, "Message saved as send later," or similar, but I have no idea if Thunderbird presents anything to NVDA to say.  If one does a CTRL + Enter to send now, you get a dialog box asking an "are you sure?" question that includes a checkbox for never showing that dialog box again in the future.  But since "Send Later" isn't a scheduled send later, but this weird limbo where the message is not considered to be in draft status, but is not sent but just placed in the local outbox for later sending, manually, absolutely nothing is presented (nothing at all, visually or otherwise).

Like Gene, this is just not a feature I'd ever use.  If I want to send something later, even if I've finished the message, I save it such that it sits in Drafts, fetch the draft message later in time, and send it.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

You can't crush ideas by suppressing them. You can only crush them by ignoring them.
     ~ Ursula LeGuin, The Dispossessed


 

The following is not meant to be snarky, as I am always happy to take a literal "look see" and report what's going on, but this is a situation where it's expected that the end user (and that included me) familiarize themselves with how a given feature works when the results you think you should have don't show up.

I had no idea "Send Later" existed.  When I did my first two test messages with it I had no idea where they'd disappeared to, and they could not be found with a Thunderbird message search.  I had to do a web search to find that article on where messages go when "Send Later" is used.

I have, both visually and via narration by NVDA, absolutely nothing indicated to me as a sighted end user when "Send Later" is employed.  It was as much a mystery to me as it has been to many of you.  The only reason I have any idea of what Thunderbird is doing with these messages is having found that article.  The only value added here from me is telling you that we, the sighted, do not get any sort of additional cue about what happens when you choose "Send Later" than a screen reader user does.  The message just gets silently (as in no dialog of any sort) shuttled to the local Outbox.  And as that article from way back in 2014 indicates, that's as mystifying to those of us who can see as it is to you all, particularly if the local Outbox folder is so low on the folder tree that it is not visible unless you scroll to it, which is how it is in my instance of Thunderbird, since I have two Gmail accounts with many IMAP folders/labels associated with each.

I'd have no idea of how this was supposed to work without having done that web search.  And now that I do know how it works I find it to be a mystifying feature that serves no purpose that saving a completed draft doesn't.  If you could actually schedule a time for sending later, that would be another matter, not that I would likely use that feature, either, but at least it has a fully separate function.  I prefer that a message I've completed, but don't want to send right now, stays in Drafts.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

You can't crush ideas by suppressing them. You can only crush them by ignoring them.
     ~ Ursula LeGuin, The Dispossessed


Dave Grossoehme
 

I would think there would be a scheduling feature if this is offered.  As of the way things are going most items have a schedule feature, beings there may be a reason for sending the item later.

Dave


On 4/29/2022 10:19 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Thu, Apr 28, 2022 at 10:31 PM, Ron Canazzi wrote:
Brian are you listening?
-
As of this morning.   Since I don't use this feature, and likely never would, I'd not looked at it at all before.   You have given an exact description of what Thunderbird actually does with messages that you use the "Send Later" option for.  Those messages are considered completed, not drafts, and they get stored in Thunderbird's local Outbox folder.  See:  Where does Thunderbird keep the "send later" messages?   It's ancient, but still accurate.

I'm not exactly sure what it is you're expecting here from NVDA.  I'm guessing something like, "Message saved as send later," or similar, but I have no idea if Thunderbird presents anything to NVDA to say.  If one does a CTRL + Enter to send now, you get a dialog box asking an "are you sure?" question that includes a checkbox for never showing that dialog box again in the future.  But since "Send Later" isn't a scheduled send later, but this weird limbo where the message is not considered to be in draft status, but is not sent but just placed in the local outbox for later sending, manually, absolutely nothing is presented (nothing at all, visually or otherwise).

Like Gene, this is just not a feature I'd ever use.  If I want to send something later, even if I've finished the message, I save it such that it sits in Drafts, fetch the draft message later in time, and send it.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

You can't crush ideas by suppressing them. You can only crush them by ignoring them.
     ~ Ursula LeGuin, The Dispossessed