NVDA announcing shortcut keys
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Don H
I am running NVDA version 2021.3.1 on latest version of win 10. I had NVDA set not to announce shortcut keys. I messed up hitting some key conbination that caused NVDA to start announcing shortcut keys. Where in the NVDA settings do you disable the announcement of shortcut keys.
Thanks
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See Keyboard Settings in NVDA settings or try NVDA + 4, which I believe toggles this announcement.
-- Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044 The instinctive need to be the member of a closely-knit group fighting for common ideals may grow so strong that it becomes inessential what these ideals are. ~ Konrad Lorenz (1903-1989)
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Gene
I'll let others answer the question as to the specific location of the setting. I will tell you something I think is valuable to know and use. If you haven't shut down NVDA and the new settings haven't been permanently saved, you can immediately undo any settings you have changed accidentally or on purpose with the command control+NVDA+r. This allows you to experiment with different commands or change something and change anything back with the convenience of issuing one command. At times, I change my punctuation level. To change it back to the setting I usually use, I use the command I gave above. Its faster and more convenient.
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Gene
On 1/16/2022 10:18 AM, Don H wrote:
I am running NVDA version 2021.3.1 on latest version of win 10. I had NVDA set not to announce shortcut keys. I messed up hitting some key conbination that caused NVDA to start announcing shortcut keys. Where in the NVDA settings do you disable the announcement of shortcut keys.
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Gene
NVDA 4 is speak command keys on and off. that isn't related to announcing shortcuts.
Gene
On 1/16/2022 10:22 AM, Brian Vogel
wrote:
See Keyboard Settings in NVDA settings or try NVDA + 4, which I believe toggles this announcement.
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David Goldfield
Don, go to Preferences > Settings > Object Presentation and you'll find the option to disable the speaking of shortcut keys.
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For reference you can also find it in section 12.1.12 of the User Guide, which you can get to from the NVDA menu under the Help option. David Goldfield, Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field. Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io www.DavidGoldfield.org
-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Don H Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2022 11:19 AM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: [nvda] NVDA announcing shortcut keys I am running NVDA version 2021.3.1 on latest version of win 10. I had NVDA set not to announce shortcut keys. I messed up hitting some key conbination that caused NVDA to start announcing shortcut keys. Where in the NVDA settings do you disable the announcement of shortcut keys. Thanks
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David Goldfield
Hi. The insert-4 shortcut toggles the speaking of command keys that you type, such as keys accompanied by the control key, but not the speaking of shortcut keys for options in an application.
David Goldfield, Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field. Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of
Brian Vogel
Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2022 11:23 AM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA announcing shortcut keys
See Keyboard Settings in NVDA settings or try NVDA + 4, which I believe toggles this announcement. Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044 The instinctive need to be the member of a closely-knit group fighting for common ideals may grow so strong that it becomes inessential what these ideals are. ~ Konrad Lorenz (1903-1989)
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Gene
I haven't played with the setting to see if this is the
applicable one, but it appears to be in object presentation,
report object shortcut keys.
Even if that is the applicable setting, you can see why using control+NVDA+r is so much more convenient and efficient.
Gene
On 1/16/2022 10:27 AM, Gene wrote:
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Don H
Thanks this is the correct place to disable shortcut keys. I don't know
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what keystroke I accidently hit to mess up my settings. I will remember the insert control r for the next time these old stiff fingers hit the wrong keys. Thanks
On 1/16/2022 10:32 AM, Gene wrote:
I haven't played with the setting to see if this is the applicable one,
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David Goldfield
Pressing NVDA-ctrl-R isn't always a guarantee that you'll be able to revert back to a previous setting as a user could have saved a configuration, exited and then later restarted NVDA. In that case relying on the keystroke to revert to the previously saved configuration won't work.
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David Goldfield, Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field. Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io www.DavidGoldfield.org
-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Don H Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2022 12:15 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA announcing shortcut keys Thanks this is the correct place to disable shortcut keys. I don't know what keystroke I accidently hit to mess up my settings. I will remember the insert control r for the next time these old stiff fingers hit the wrong keys. Thanks On 1/16/2022 10:32 AM, Gene wrote: I haven't played with the setting to see if this is the applicable
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On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 11:26 AM, Gene wrote:
If you haven't shut down NVDA and the new settings haven't been permanently saved, you can immediately undo any settings you have changed accidentally or on purpose with the command control+NVDA+r.- David, Please re-read what Gene said earlier. He made the explicit statement, "and the new settings haven't been permanently saved." The mechanism of permanent saving, whether an application profile or default profile, isn't relevant. What is is that the new settings have not been saved, anywhere, or by any method. If the above noted constraint is in place, the noted command works. -- Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044 The instinctive need to be the member of a closely-knit group fighting for common ideals may grow so strong that it becomes inessential what these ideals are. ~ Konrad Lorenz (1903-1989)
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Gene
That's correct. I said in my message something about if you haven't shut down NVDA for that reason. Its also a reason that I strongly believe that the default setting should be changed. By default, NVDA saves settings when you shut it down, which would mean when you restart or shut down Windows as instances. You can turn this behavior off and manually save settings when you want to with Control+NVDA+c.
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Because of this NVDA default behavior, I have twice lost every single one of my settings. I had reverted to factory settings to check something, then I had forgotten that the factory settings would be automatically saved if I shut NVDA down. When I rebooted again, I had lost all my settings and I had to manually reset them. This should not be the default behavior. Gene
On 1/16/2022 11:22 AM, David Goldfield wrote:
Pressing NVDA-ctrl-R isn't always a guarantee that you'll be able to revert back to a previous setting as a user could have saved a configuration, exited and then later restarted NVDA. In that case relying on the keystroke to revert to the previously saved configuration won't work.
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David Goldfield
That's fine. My apologies as I somehow missed that message.
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David Goldfield, Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news and events in the blindness assistive technology field. Email: tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io www.DavidGoldfield.org
-----Original Message-----
From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gene Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2022 1:05 PM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA announcing shortcut keys That's correct. I said in my message something about if you haven't shut down NVDA for that reason. Its also a reason that I strongly believe that the default setting should be changed. By default, NVDA saves settings when you shut it down, which would mean when you restart or shut down Windows as instances. You can turn this behavior off and manually save settings when you want to with Control+NVDA+c. Because of this NVDA default behavior, I have twice lost every single one of my settings. I had reverted to factory settings to check something, then I had forgotten that the factory settings would be automatically saved if I shut NVDA down. When I rebooted again, I had lost all my settings and I had to manually reset them. This should not be the default behavior. Gene On 1/16/2022 11:22 AM, David Goldfield wrote: Pressing NVDA-ctrl-R isn't always a guarantee that you'll be able to revert back to a previous setting as a user could have saved a configuration, exited and then later restarted NVDA. In that case relying on the keystroke to revert to the previously saved configuration won't work.
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On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 01:04 PM, Gene wrote:
This should not be the default behavior.- Again, Gene, this is your opinion. It is not mine. In almost all programs, including NVDA, when people change settings they want those changes "to stick" and actually expect it unless they deliberately arrange it otherwise. This has been a convention for decades, and across types of software. You know how to turn this off. If you don't like that default, then do that. Your tastes, which are sometimes unusual, don't hold sway. All the time you state, unequivocally, that they should. Sorry, but, no. -- Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044 The instinctive need to be the member of a closely-knit group fighting for common ideals may grow so strong that it becomes inessential what these ideals are. ~ Konrad Lorenz (1903-1989)
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Gene
I can state an opinion about what should be the case without
always qualifying it by saying something like others may disagree,
etc. This sort of thing is done constantly. See editorial pages
and opinion columns for innumerable examples. When I write in
such a way, I assume that it is generally understood that I am
expressing an opinion.
This is not a question of taste, usual or not. It isn't a
question of I like chocolate ice cream. It is a question of which
better serves users.
Aside from that, Openbook does not automatically save settings.
Window-eyes didn't. I don't think Kurzweil does. These designers
may have had good reasons for what they did.
In the case of Window-eyes, the reason was so that users could
experiment with settings, then not accidentally have them be
saved. I suspect that also, in the cases of all three of these
programs, this was done so users could change settings, then
change them back if the changes were intended to be temporary such
as temporarily changing a contrast setting. It was evidently
intended that these settings would not be accidentally saved on
exit.
On 1/16/2022 12:53 PM, Brian Vogel
wrote:
On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 01:04 PM, Gene wrote:
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On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 02:42 PM, Gene wrote:
- And, Gene, your beliefs about this are not, contrary to your own opinion, always right. Therein lies the problem, even though your don't see it as one. And no, you need not qualify everything with, "It's my opinion that . . ." And I don't have to qualify my opinion, "You're wrong," either. -- Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044 The instinctive need to be the member of a closely-knit group fighting for common ideals may grow so strong that it becomes inessential what these ideals are. ~ Konrad Lorenz (1903-1989)
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Gene
I'll point out, though arguing from authority doesn't prove a thing is right, that still, one of the most respected instructors in the field expressed the opinion that Window-eyes was better than JAWS in this respect because users were more free to experiment.
People may differ with me all they like, but why is the current default better than my proposal?
Gene
On 1/16/2022 1:42 PM, Gene wrote:
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Gene
I didn't say I am always right. But when I express an opinion,
if I think it is right, I will state it and stand by it unless I
am convinced by opinions and/or facts that it is wrong.
Gene
On 1/16/2022 1:49 PM, Brian Vogel
wrote:
On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 02:42 PM, Gene wrote:
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On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 02:51 PM, Gene wrote:
People may differ with me all they like, but why is the current default better than my proposal?- Gene, I suggest you look at how the Settings under Windows 10 & 11, Microsoft Office, most web browsers, and the list goes on and on these days work. The era of having to hit even so much as a Save key to finalize your choices has, quite often, disappeared. Even a Cancel button has become rarer. The settings take effect, immediately, and stay as you set them until or unless you set them back. It has become the most common convention. That matters. People come to expect this sort of behavior ecosystem wide as it has come to predominate. It's not even a matter of personal preference, really, so much as a matter of establishing a consistent convention and sticking with it. There are programs, and they are relatively few and NVDA is one of them, that allow you to actually control when/if settings changes are saved. It gives you the control if you want to set an exception to what has become common convention. But in all cases, whether I necessarily like what the common convention is, personally, I recognize the value in following it. Knowing what to expect, in most cases, has a great value even if I so happen to hate whatever that thing is. At least I know and I know that if it's possible for me to change it then it is up to me to make that change. It makes it a conscious deviation from the common convention. NVDA is adhering to modern conventions, and should continue to do so. -- Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044 The instinctive need to be the member of a closely-knit group fighting for common ideals may grow so strong that it becomes inessential what these ideals are. ~ Konrad Lorenz (1903-1989)
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Arlene
Hi there: I can’t argue here. I used Jaws since I got a computer. I did try a demo of window eyes. I found it too bulkie. I ran home to JFW because I didn’t know window eyes. In my neck of the woods in Canada British Columbia. There wasn’t a vender I knew of that supported it. They were big on JFW. Later I did find a vender that did support Window eyes. I don’t know if they exist. They were based out of Victoria. Now, for me to get JFW, I have to go to another Vender for JFW. Our local venders do not support it. There’s one in Langley and another in Vancouver. They support system Access. This is why I use NVDA. I can get it online. Not have to go to a vender to get it! I have both it and Jaws on my system. Some things I’ll use NVDA. Some I’ll use Jaws. Don’t worry I wont use them at the same time. Lol
Sent from Mail for Windows
From: Gene
Sent: January 16, 2022 11:51 AM To: nvda@nvda.groups.io Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA announcing shortcut keys
I'll point out, though arguing from authority doesn't prove a thing is right, that still, one of the most respected instructors in the field expressed the opinion that Window-eyes was better than JAWS in this respect because users were more free to experiment.
People may differ with me all they like, but why is the current default better than my proposal?
Gene On 1/16/2022 1:42 PM, Gene wrote:
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Gene
Yes, what you say is correct about programs in general but a
screen-reader is somewhat different than typical programs. In a
screen-reader, people often want to change settings temporarily
and not have them accidentally saved permanently. You may want
to change the speech rate, perhaps you are reading something you
want to concentrate on more and slow the screen-reader, perhaps
you want to change punctuation temporarily, or change what is or
isn't spoken on a certain web page. Perhaps you want to change
the voice. I imagine people would tend to change one setting
usually but I also suspect there are times when people might want
to change two or three, but you don't want any of these changes to
be permanent. If your computer spontaneously reboots, the changed
settings will be permanently saved. While this doesn't happen
often, it does happen. Because you may have set them a long time
ago, you may not recall the numerical values of the settings and
you may find it annoying to reset them. You may be doing
something after making one or more changes and decide to switch
screen-readers. Without thinking about reverting before shutdown,
you close NVDA. The old settings have been lost and the new ones
saved.
And in the case of those learning NVDA I believe it gives
students more confidence in experimenting with NVDA settings if they know they won't
accidentally be saved. They can change as many settings as they
want and none of them will be permanently saved, unless
intentionally.
I believe that programs like Openbook and Kurzweil are in this
category of program as well.
Gene
On 1/16/2022 3:30 PM, Brian Vogel
wrote:
On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 02:51 PM, Gene wrote:
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