NVDA cursor automatically placed in conversations list in gMail standard view


Louise Pfau
 

On Wed, Sep 28, 2022 at 09:42 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:
Must have been a net "burp," as it works fine when I click through on it.  These things happen.
Hi Brian.  You're right, because it just worked for me too.

Thanks,

Louise


Jackie
 

GMail would be ill-advised to get rid of it. It's not like everyone
has blazing fast connectivity, many parts of the world don't, &, in
those scenarios, basic HTml is still best. The internet, thankfully,
does not totally revolve around the needs of the more affluent
nations, & Google, if it's wise, will cater to all. No one's ever
accused them of wisdom, though, at least not that I know of.

For my part, I'll use it till I'm forced to switch. I can use the
standard view; I just don't like it & therefore choose not to. I
certainly advise that everyone familiarize themselves w/it.

On 9/28/22, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
On Wed, Sep 28, 2022 at 11:35 AM, Louise Pfau wrote:


I got a 404 error when I activated the link
https://www.howtogeek.com/791987/gmail-basic-html-inbox/.
( https://www.howtogeek.com/791987/gmail-basic-html-inbox/ )
-
Must have been a net "burp," as it works fine when I click through on it.
These things happen.
--

Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

Memory is a crazy woman that hoards rags and throws away food.

~ Austin O'Malley





--
Jackie McBride
Be a hero. Fight Scams. Learn how at www.scam911.org
Also check out brightstarsweb.com & mysitesbeenhacked.com


Gene
 

I don't follow what Google does in the kind of detail to know what you are saying about how it makes decisions.  And there may be accessibility implications, as the message I link to demonstrates.  These may slow down getting rid of Simple HTML.

I didn't mean to imply that you said Simple HTML will disappear soon.  But you talked about no one having an excuse to be surprised when it does.  To me, that implies a decision taken and implemented with little notice.  I think this will be widely discussed in the blindness computer community before it does disappear so people will have time to accustom themselves to the new interface.

I know you said eventually and I don't know how long that might be.

People who are worried may want to become familiar with the other interface but I doubt it will be necessary for a good while.

Gene

On 9/28/2022 10:41 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Wed, Sep 28, 2022 at 11:33 AM, Gene wrote:
Here is more evidence that a lot more people may use Simple HTML than you may believe. 
-
Gene, you know as well as anyone that Google has never based its decisions about discontinuance on size of user base for many of their offerings.  They just cut them, often with relatively little notice and sometimes with a lot of notice and/or telegraphing of intent.

I have never, ever, said anything about the numbers of people that may or may not use Basic HTML view, as that is utterly irrelevant to my position about what has been being telegraphed by Google for some time now.  I also have not said that Basic HTML view is on its way out in the immediate future, as the telegraphing has gone on literally for some years now.

I have no problem with your observations in and of themselves, but as they are phrased they seem to imply that I was saying things I have not said or claimed.
--

Brian Virginia, USA  Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

Memory is a crazy woman that hoards rags and throws away food.

         ~ Austin O'Malley



Rosemarie Chavarria
 

I too find it easier to use basic HTmL in gmail—especially if I want to get rid of spam mail. I’m trying to familiarize myself with the standard view but I’m finding it a bit difficult. I’ll stick to basic HTML until I’m forced to switch.

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

From: Jackie
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2022 8:59 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA cursor automatically placed in conversations list in gMail standard view

 

GMail would be ill-advised to get rid of it. It's not like everyone

has blazing fast connectivity, many parts of the world don't, &, in

those scenarios, basic HTml is still best. The internet, thankfully,

does not totally revolve around the needs of the more affluent

nations, & Google, if it's wise, will cater to all. No one's ever

accused them of wisdom, though, at least not that I know of.

 

For my part, I'll use it till I'm forced to switch. I can use the

standard view; I just don't like it & therefore choose not to. I

certainly advise that everyone familiarize themselves w/it.

 

On 9/28/22, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

> On Wed, Sep 28, 2022 at 11:35 AM, Louise Pfau wrote:

>> 

>> I got a 404 error when I activated the link

>> https://www.howtogeek.com/791987/gmail-basic-html-inbox/.

>> ( https://www.howtogeek.com/791987/gmail-basic-html-inbox/ )

> -

> Must have been a net "burp," as it works fine when I click through on it.

> These things happen.

> --

> Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

> Memory is a crazy woman that hoards rags and throws away food.

> ~ Austin O'Malley

>

 

 

--

Jackie McBride

Be a hero. Fight Scams. Learn how at www.scam911.org

Also check out brightstarsweb.com & mysitesbeenhacked.com

 

 

 

 

 


 

On Wed, Sep 28, 2022 at 11:59 AM, Jackie wrote:
For my part, I'll use it till I'm forced to switch. I can use the standard view; I just don't like it & therefore choose not to. I certainly advise that everyone familiarize themselves w/it.
-
And so I can be clear, I have no dog in the race about which view anyone chooses to use.  While something is offered, it's offered, and if you like it better then that's what you should use.

You have, however, said something that most Basic HTML view users seldom do, and that's advising at least a rudimentary familiarity with standard view.  I've just had too many Google products I used, and used for long periods, unceremoniously yanked for "the latest, greatest replacement."  I don't think that Gmail itself will ever disappear (at least not during my lifetime) but heaven knows how it will evolve, and that evolution is likely to continue to be focused on what is called the standard view since they've been developing that (and particularly as far as accessibility goes) for years now.
--

Brian Virginia, USA  Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

Memory is a crazy woman that hoards rags and throws away food.

         ~ Austin O'Malley


Gene
 

Regarding all the shortcuts, its the same as working with programs in general.  You would learn the ones you use regularly, which probably wouldn't be a lot since there are certain things you would routinely do when working with mail, and a lot of things either not often or not at all.

I played with the interface a little awhile ago and I think if I were going to use it, I would probably read messages in general in browse mode.  If you play with the new interface, you can compare and decide.

I use Thunderbird with GMail and I haven't used either web interface much. 

Gene

On 9/28/2022 10:53 AM, Louise Pfau wrote:

On Wed, Sep 28, 2022 at 09:42 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:
Must have been a net "burp," as it works fine when I click through on it.  These things happen.
Hi Brian.  You're right, because it just worked for me too.

Thanks,

Louise


 

On Wed, Sep 28, 2022 at 12:11 PM, Gene wrote:
But you talked about no one having an excuse to be surprised when it does.  To me, that implies a decision taken and implemented with little notice.

-
Gene, to be clear, that's not what it's meant to imply.

But what it is meant to imply is that the vast majority of end users pay absolutely no attention to what any given software/service maker says about what they're planning, or telegraphs about what they're planning.  A very great deal of my work over the years has been of the variety where a lack of planning on the end user's part, and where the information for planning was made plain, repeatedly, over time was ignored resulting in a crisis.

I vividly remember the time, not long ago, when Verizon announced it was leaving the email business, many times over many months, and telling those using verizon.net addresses that they would be able to keep them but had to follow a step-by-step process to transfer them to actually being managed by AOL.  When the "drop dead" date finally came there was a "mass panic" that should never have been a mass panic where techs like myself were being called with the, "Oh my god, I just got a notice my verizon email address will be deactivated in 2 days, what can I do?!!" plaints.

This sort of thing has happened, again and again in my decades in this business.  Hence the reason I harp on not only paying attention to specific notices, which are not vague, but about what is telegraphed by how a given entity may make using "what I'm used to" a more and more complicated process than it once was.  That generally tells you that discontinuance will eventually occur.  And if you take the actions you need to so that you're ready when it does, that's what I'm trying to encourage.  It doesn't mean you need to dump something today, but you really should not be surprised when "discontinuance hints" have been being dropped over time, even in the absence of direct notices. 
--

Brian Virginia, USA  Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

Memory is a crazy woman that hoards rags and throws away food.

         ~ Austin O'Malley


 

By the way, I will now allow anyone to make any final point(s) they may wish to make in a single post.  But even I realized that my last post is way off-topic for this group.  It has nothing to do with NVDA or how to use it.  We, collectively, have "gone meta," as I put it.  An NVDA based conversation has, through natural drift, morphed into something else.

But after whatever closing post you may wish to make is made, I'm asking that we wrap up this topic.
--

Brian Virginia, USA  Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

Memory is a crazy woman that hoards rags and throws away food.

         ~ Austin O'Malley


Sarah k Alawami
 

It’s actually quite easy to use, just use all of it in focus mode and memorize at least j, k, s, * then a, x, !, #,  and the right click or apps key. Those are all of the keys I’ve memorized thus far, plus creating labels as well, I’ve tended to memorize the paths , or close to them  It will take practice, however I’ve forced myself to memorize and practice as html view will be going away I predict soon ish. I also sun no when and I’m a part of some stuff for which I cannot speak.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rosemarie Chavarria
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2022 9:13 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA cursor automatically placed in conversations list in gMail standard view

 

I too find it easier to use basic HTmL in gmail—especially if I want to get rid of spam mail. I’m trying to familiarize myself with the standard view but I’m finding it a bit difficult. I’ll stick to basic HTML until I’m forced to switch.

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

From: Jackie
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2022 8:59 AM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA cursor automatically placed in conversations list in gMail standard view

 

GMail would be ill-advised to get rid of it. It's not like everyone

has blazing fast connectivity, many parts of the world don't, &, in

those scenarios, basic HTml is still best. The internet, thankfully,

does not totally revolve around the needs of the more affluent

nations, & Google, if it's wise, will cater to all. No one's ever

accused them of wisdom, though, at least not that I know of.

 

For my part, I'll use it till I'm forced to switch. I can use the

standard view; I just don't like it & therefore choose not to. I

certainly advise that everyone familiarize themselves w/it.

 

On 9/28/22, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

> On Wed, Sep 28, 2022 at 11:35 AM, Louise Pfau wrote:

>> 

>> I got a 404 error when I activated the link

>> https://www.howtogeek.com/791987/gmail-basic-html-inbox/.

>> ( https://www.howtogeek.com/791987/gmail-basic-html-inbox/ )

> -

> Must have been a net "burp," as it works fine when I click through on it.

> These things happen.

> --

> Brian - Virginia, USA - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044

> Memory is a crazy woman that hoards rags and throws away food.

> ~ Austin O'Malley

>

 

 

--

Jackie McBride

Be a hero. Fight Scams. Learn how at www.scam911.org

Also check out brightstarsweb.com & mysitesbeenhacked.com

 

 

 

 

 


Gene
 

Its good that the discussion clarified that.

Gene

On 9/28/2022 11:22 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:

On Wed, Sep 28, 2022 at 12:11 PM, Gene wrote:
But you talked about no one having an excuse to be surprised when it does.  To me, that implies a decision taken and implemented with little notice.

-
Gene, to be clear, that's not what it's meant to imply.

But what it is meant to imply is that the vast majority of end users pay absolutely no attention to what any given software/service maker says about what they're planning, or telegraphs about what they're planning.  A very great deal of my work over the years has been of the variety where a lack of planning on the end user's part, and where the information for planning was made plain, repeatedly, over time was ignored resulting in a crisis.

I vividly remember the time, not long ago, when Verizon announced it was leaving the email business, many times over many months, and telling those using verizon.net addresses that they would be able to keep them but had to follow a step-by-step process to transfer them to actually being managed by AOL.  When the "drop dead" date finally came there was a "mass panic" that should never have been a mass panic where techs like myself were being called with the, "Oh my god, I just got a notice my verizon email address will be deactivated in 2 days, what can I do?!!" plaints.

This sort of thing has happened, again and again in my decades in this business.  Hence the reason I harp on not only paying attention to specific notices, which are not vague, but about what is telegraphed by how a given entity may make using "what I'm used to" a more and more complicated process than it once was.  That generally tells you that discontinuance will eventually occur.  And if you take the actions you need to so that you're ready when it does, that's what I'm trying to encourage.  It doesn't mean you need to dump something today, but you really should not be surprised when "discontinuance hints" have been being dropped over time, even in the absence of direct notices. 
--

Brian Virginia, USA  Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

Memory is a crazy woman that hoards rags and throws away food.

         ~ Austin O'Malley



Dave Grossoehme
 

I have to agree with Brian here.  Many of these companies make changes right out of the blue.  It's won't make any difference in their minds on making a change.  This is just one of their many changes that come up in the tech world.  That's why you better get use to change because it will come whether you or anyone else other than the company management will go ahead anyhow.  The blind are just a small hand of people in the company of Googgle's mind.

Dave


On 9/28/2022 12:11 PM, Gene wrote:

I don't follow what Google does in the kind of detail to know what you are saying about how it makes decisions.  And there may be accessibility implications, as the message I link to demonstrates.  These may slow down getting rid of Simple HTML.

I didn't mean to imply that you said Simple HTML will disappear soon.  But you talked about no one having an excuse to be surprised when it does.  To me, that implies a decision taken and implemented with little notice.  I think this will be widely discussed in the blindness computer community before it does disappear so people will have time to accustom themselves to the new interface.

I know you said eventually and I don't know how long that might be.

People who are worried may want to become familiar with the other interface but I doubt it will be necessary for a good while.

Gene

On 9/28/2022 10:41 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Wed, Sep 28, 2022 at 11:33 AM, Gene wrote:
Here is more evidence that a lot more people may use Simple HTML than you may believe. 
-
Gene, you know as well as anyone that Google has never based its decisions about discontinuance on size of user base for many of their offerings.  They just cut them, often with relatively little notice and sometimes with a lot of notice and/or telegraphing of intent.

I have never, ever, said anything about the numbers of people that may or may not use Basic HTML view, as that is utterly irrelevant to my position about what has been being telegraphed by Google for some time now.  I also have not said that Basic HTML view is on its way out in the immediate future, as the telegraphing has gone on literally for some years now.

I have no problem with your observations in and of themselves, but as they are phrased they seem to imply that I was saying things I have not said or claimed.
--

Brian Virginia, USA  Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H2, Build 19044  

Memory is a crazy woman that hoards rags and throws away food.

         ~ Austin O'Malley



 

hi.
you should be very quick.
when you signed in gmail in standard view,
before the page loaded completely,
on top of the page you can find button basic html view option.

On 9/28/22, Louise Pfau <louise.pfau@...> wrote:
On Tue, Sep 27, 2022 at 05:07 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:


I'll let others answer your original question, as it's worth discussing
as
far as accessing Gmail webmail with NVDA.

Although Google has claimed that they're going to kill Basic HTML View,
they still have not. It's just now kinda-sorta hidden as far as getting
to it. Once you are logged in to Gmail you can use the following link,
Basic
HTML version of Gmail (
https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/h/1pq68r75kzvdr/?v%3Dlui ) , to change
back to the Basic HTML version. Just bookmark that link and after you
log
in to Gmail and land in the standard view you can activate it to shift
back to Basic HTML view (at least until Google actually inally kills it
entirely).
Hi Brian. I have the link you provided already bookmarked, in fact that's
what I use all the time. When I used the "sign in" link on it this morning
though, the standard html was activated for some reason.

Thanks,

Louise





--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali


 

hi i completely agree with you that basic html view is better than
standard at least for screen reader users.
standard view causes overheating in my laptop and dont work for me at all.
it requires javascript a lot and i really dont need the most of
features in gmail standard view.
i am not familiar with web applications and they dont work in my
country and i dont need them.
i just want a simple interface to use.

On 9/28/22, Louise Pfau <louise.pfau@...> wrote:
Hi. Gmail appears to have just phased out the basic html view, so I have to
use the standard view now. I noticed that when I log in, NVDA is
automatically placed in focus mode, and the cursor is placed in the
conversation list. Is there a way to set NVDA to place the cursor at the
top of the page, so that you can see if there is other important
information? With the basic html view, that's how it worked. In my
opinion, the basic html view worked better with a screen reader.

Thanks,

Louise





--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali