NVDA documentation


David Mellor
 

Hello group,
I'm not sure who looks after the documentation so I'll post here if that's
okay.
I noticed there was nothing in the manual about the:
* Moves to the next object in a flattened view of the object navigation
hierarchy
* Moves to the previous object in a flattened view of the object navigation
hierarchy
Neither command have keyboard shortcuts associated with them by default.
Perhaps they got forgotten about for the manual.
Best wishes,
David


Gene
 

I don’t know what you mean by the phrase flattened view.  Are you talking about being in object review and using the commands numpad insert numpad 4 and numpad insert numpad 6?  These are desktop layout commands.
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2021 4:53 AM
Subject: [nvda] NVDA documentation
 
Hello group,
I'm not sure who looks after the documentation so I'll post here if that's
okay.
I noticed there was nothing in the manual about the:
* Moves to the next object in a flattened view of the object navigation
hierarchy
* Moves to the previous object in a flattened view of the object navigation
hierarchy
Neither command have keyboard shortcuts associated with them by default.
Perhaps they got forgotten about for the manual.
Best wishes,
David






Gene
 

I just checked and when discussing object navigation, the manual doesn’t include the move to previous object and move to next object commands I gave in my last message.
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Gene
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2021 4:58 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA documentation
 
I don’t know what you mean by the phrase flattened view.  Are you talking about being in object review and using the commands numpad insert numpad 4 and numpad insert numpad 6?  These are desktop layout commands.
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2021 4:53 AM
Subject: [nvda] NVDA documentation
 
Hello group,
I'm not sure who looks after the documentation so I'll post here if that's
okay.
I noticed there was nothing in the manual about the:
* Moves to the next object in a flattened view of the object navigation
hierarchy
* Moves to the previous object in a flattened view of the object navigation
hierarchy
Neither command have keyboard shortcuts associated with them by default.
Perhaps they got forgotten about for the manual.
Best wishes,
David






Rui Fontes
 

Sorry, but they are...

Look for the section 5.4. Object Navigation

Then press T to go to table, and they are in lines 3 and 4...


Rui Fontes


Às 11:06 de 08/09/2021, Gene escreveu:

I just checked and when discussing object navigation, the manual doesn’t include the move to previous object and move to next object commands I gave in my last message.
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Gene
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2021 4:58 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA documentation
 
I don’t know what you mean by the phrase flattened view.  Are you talking about being in object review and using the commands numpad insert numpad 4 and numpad insert numpad 6?  These are desktop layout commands.
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2021 4:53 AM
Subject: [nvda] NVDA documentation
 
Hello group,
I'm not sure who looks after the documentation so I'll post here if that's
okay.
I noticed there was nothing in the manual about the:
* Moves to the next object in a flattened view of the object navigation
hierarchy
* Moves to the previous object in a flattened view of the object navigation
hierarchy
Neither command have keyboard shortcuts associated with them by default.
Perhaps they got forgotten about for the manual.
Best wishes,
David






Gene
 

I read that section before I sent my message.  I didn’t notice the commands.  They are there.
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
From: Rui Fontes
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2021 5:38 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA documentation
 

Sorry, but they are...

Look for the section 5.4. Object Navigation

Then press T to go to table, and they are in lines 3 and 4...

 

Rui Fontes

 

Às 11:06 de 08/09/2021, Gene escreveu:
I just checked and when discussing object navigation, the manual doesn’t include the move to previous object and move to next object commands I gave in my last message.
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Gene
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2021 4:58 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA documentation
 
I don’t know what you mean by the phrase flattened view.  Are you talking about being in object review and using the commands numpad insert numpad 4 and numpad insert numpad 6?  These are desktop layout commands.
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2021 4:53 AM
Subject: [nvda] NVDA documentation
 
Hello group,
I'm not sure who looks after the documentation so I'll post here if that's
okay.
I noticed there was nothing in the manual about the:
* Moves to the next object in a flattened view of the object navigation
hierarchy
* Moves to the previous object in a flattened view of the object navigation
hierarchy
Neither command have keyboard shortcuts associated with them by default.
Perhaps they got forgotten about for the manual.
Best wishes,
David






 

Hi,

Quentin is the one who looks after documentation these days, and I sometimes look at user guide.

The flattened view refers to moving to the next or previous object regardless of object navigation hierarchy. For example, you can move from an object to its child, then to the object's sibling, then to the object next to its parent and what not. This was implemented to support object navigation via touchscreen gestures where you can move among objects on the screen regardless of relationship.

Cheers,

Joseph


David Mellor
 

The commands for prev and next within the container are in the table. The "flattened" next and prev keys, to use the terminology in the NVDA menu input gestures section are not mentioned.
They do seem to have been omitted.
David



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Rui Fontes
Sent: 08 September 2021 11:38
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA documentation

Sorry, but they are...

Look for the section 5.4. Object Navigation

Then press T to go to table, and they are in lines 3 and 4...


Rui Fontes


Às 11:06 de 08/09/2021, Gene escreveu:
I just checked and when discussing object navigation, the manual doesn’t include the move to previous object and move to next object commands I gave in my last message.
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----
From: Gene
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2021 4:58 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA documentation
 
I don’t know what you mean by the phrase flattened view.  Are you talking about being in object review and using the commands numpad insert numpad 4 and numpad insert numpad 6?  These are desktop layout commands.
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2021 4:53 AM
Subject: [nvda] NVDA documentation
 
Hello group,
I'm not sure who looks after the documentation so I'll post here if that's
okay.
I noticed there was nothing in the manual about the:
* Moves to the next object in a flattened view of the object navigation
hierarchy
* Moves to the previous object in a flattened view of the object navigation
hierarchy
Neither command have keyboard shortcuts associated with them by default.
Perhaps they got forgotten about for the manual.
Best wishes,
David






Jonathan COHN
 

So this works the same way essentially as JAWS's touch cursor if I am reading your description correctly. JAWS does have an "advanced touch" cursor mode that treats up/down/left/right almost identically to how NVDA does object navigation.
Thanks, this is quite useful to know.
Jonathan C. Cohn 

On Sep 8, 2021, at 08:29, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:

Hi,

Quentin is the one who looks after documentation these days, and I sometimes look at user guide.

The flattened view refers to moving to the next or previous object regardless of object navigation hierarchy. For example, you can move from an object to its child, then to the object's sibling, then to the object next to its parent and what not. This was implemented to support object navigation via touchscreen gestures where you can move among objects on the screen regardless of relationship.

Cheers,

Joseph



Rui Fontes
 

In this specific case, it was Jaws copying NVDA! lol!


Regards,


Rui Fontes


Às 20:56 de 08/09/2021, Jonathan COHN via groups.io escreveu:

So this works the same way essentially as JAWS's touch cursor if I am reading your description correctly. JAWS does have an "advanced touch" cursor mode that treats up/down/left/right almost identically to how NVDA does object navigation.
Thanks, this is quite useful to know.
Jonathan C. Cohn 

On Sep 8, 2021, at 08:29, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:

Hi,

Quentin is the one who looks after documentation these days, and I sometimes look at user guide.

The flattened view refers to moving to the next or previous object regardless of object navigation hierarchy. For example, you can move from an object to its child, then to the object's sibling, then to the object next to its parent and what not. This was implemented to support object navigation via touchscreen gestures where you can move among objects on the screen regardless of relationship.

Cheers,

Joseph



Quentin Christensen
 

Just to recap where we're at here:

1) In the Input Gestures dialog, under "Object Navigation" are two gestures, "Moves to the next object in a flattened view of the object navigation hierarchy", and "Moves to the previous...".  These are assigned flick right and flick left (respectively) in touch screen object mode.

2) There are no default keyboard keystrokes assigned to these gestures.  By opening the Input Gestures dialog and moving to those two options, you can assign keystrokes to these.

3) In the User Guide, under Object Navigation, flick right and left are listed as gestures for next and previous object with flick up and flick down listed as move into and out of the containing object.  The "flattened view" commands are not mentioned: https://www.nvaccess.org/files/nvda/documentation/userGuide.html#ObjectNavigation

So, for now, if you want to assign a keystroke to move by object in a flattened view, see point 1 above.  If you strongly feel there should be default gestures already and would like to put forward a good argument for that, please create an issue: https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues

And meanwhile I will follow up the discrepancy between what is in the user guide and what the gestures are (point 3).

Kind regards

Quentin.


On Thu, Sep 9, 2021 at 5:59 AM Rui Fontes <rui.fontes@...> wrote:

In this specific case, it was Jaws copying NVDA! lol!


Regards,


Rui Fontes


Às 20:56 de 08/09/2021, Jonathan COHN via groups.io escreveu:
So this works the same way essentially as JAWS's touch cursor if I am reading your description correctly. JAWS does have an "advanced touch" cursor mode that treats up/down/left/right almost identically to how NVDA does object navigation.
Thanks, this is quite useful to know.
Jonathan C. Cohn 

On Sep 8, 2021, at 08:29, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:

Hi,

Quentin is the one who looks after documentation these days, and I sometimes look at user guide.

The flattened view refers to moving to the next or previous object regardless of object navigation hierarchy. For example, you can move from an object to its child, then to the object's sibling, then to the object next to its parent and what not. This was implemented to support object navigation via touchscreen gestures where you can move among objects on the screen regardless of relationship.

Cheers,

Joseph




--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


David Mellor
 

Hi Quentin ,

I'm not too concerned with arguing the case for default key strokes being setup.

So long as it goes into the manual then people can set the keys up if they wish.

I think these functions can be very useful though. When using object navigation to find elements that we know are on the screen somewhere but may not have a clear sense of the object hierarchy it can be a lot easier if time consuming to just scroll through all of the objects.

I have certainly used this on occasion.

I've assigned them to 3 and 9, prev and next respectively.

Very best wishes,

David

 


Gene
 

Is scrolling through all the objects the same thing as using NVDA key 2 on the main  keyboard? 
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2021 3:20 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA documentation
 

Hi Quentin ,

I'm not too concerned with arguing the case for default key strokes being setup.

So long as it goes into the manual then people can set the keys up if they wish.

I think these functions can be very useful though. When using object navigation to find elements that we know are on the screen somewhere but may not have a clear sense of the object hierarchy it can be a lot easier if time consuming to just scroll through all of the objects.

I have certainly used this on occasion.

I've assigned them to 3 and 9, prev and next respectively.

Very best wishes,

David

 


David Mellor
 

NVDA+2 (main keyboard) toggles speaking of typed characters?
I'm not sure what you had in mind there Gene.
David



From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 09 September 2021 13:25
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA documentation

Is scrolling through all the objects the same thing as using NVDA key 2 on the main  keyboard? 
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2021 3:20 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA documentation
 

Hi Quentin ,

I'm not too concerned with arguing the case for default key strokes being setup.

So long as it goes into the manual then people can set the keys up if they wish.

I think these functions can be very useful though. When using object navigation to find elements that we know are on the screen somewhere but may not have a clear sense of the object hierarchy it can be a lot easier if time consuming to just scroll through all of the objects.

I have certainly used this on occasion.

I've assigned them to 3 and 9, prev and next respectively.

Very best wishes,

David

 


Gene
 

I meant NVDA b.  I’m not sure if that is the same thing as is being discussed but, if you are in object review, using that command moves through every object in the active window.  And if you stop when a certain object is being announced the object navigator will be on that object.
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2021 8:06 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA documentation
 
NVDA+2 (main keyboard) toggles speaking of typed characters?
I'm not sure what you had in mind there Gene.
David
 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 09 September 2021 13:25
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA documentation

Is scrolling through all the objects the same thing as using NVDA key 2 on the main  keyboard? 
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2021 3:20 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA documentation
 

Hi Quentin ,

I'm not too concerned with arguing the case for default key strokes being setup.

So long as it goes into the manual then people can set the keys up if they wish.

I think these functions can be very useful though. When using object navigation to find elements that we know are on the screen somewhere but may not have a clear sense of the object hierarchy it can be a lot easier if time consuming to just scroll through all of the objects.

I have certainly used this on occasion.

I've assigned them to 3 and 9, prev and next respectively.

Very best wishes,

David

 


David Mellor
 

Thanks Gene.
I didn't know NVDA-b would select the object when stopped like that.
The facility to browse through the objects manually allows more careful consideration though. :)
David


From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 09 September 2021 14:17
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA documentation

I meant NVDA b.  I’m not sure if that is the same thing as is being discussed but, if you are in object review, using that command moves through every object in the active window.  And if you stop when a certain object is being announced the object navigator will be on that object.
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2021 8:06 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA documentation
 
NVDA+2 (main keyboard) toggles speaking of typed characters?
I'm not sure what you had in mind there Gene.
David
 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 09 September 2021 13:25
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA documentation

Is scrolling through all the objects the same thing as using NVDA key 2 on the main  keyboard? 
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2021 3:20 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA documentation
 

Hi Quentin ,

I'm not too concerned with arguing the case for default key strokes being setup.

So long as it goes into the manual then people can set the keys up if they wish.

I think these functions can be very useful though. When using object navigation to find elements that we know are on the screen somewhere but may not have a clear sense of the object hierarchy it can be a lot easier if time consuming to just scroll through all of the objects.

I have certainly used this on occasion.

I've assigned them to 3 and 9, prev and next respectively.

Very best wishes,

David

 


Gene
 

Not necessarily, or if it does, you first have to know they exist.  Because of the many objects and how you have to find and move into containing objects, you may well find objects you wouldn’t have found if you had looked manually. 
 
There are times when you might want to use control b and times when you will want to look manually but neither one is sufficient by itself in all circumstances.
 
Gene

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2021 9:46 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA documentation
 
Thanks Gene.
I didn't know NVDA-b would select the object when stopped like that.
The facility to browse through the objects manually allows more careful consideration though. :)
David

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 09 September 2021 14:17
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA documentation

I meant NVDA b.  I’m not sure if that is the same thing as is being discussed but, if you are in object review, using that command moves through every object in the active window.  And if you stop when a certain object is being announced the object navigator will be on that object.
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2021 8:06 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA documentation
 
NVDA+2 (main keyboard) toggles speaking of typed characters?
I'm not sure what you had in mind there Gene.
David
 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io [mailto:nvda@nvda.groups.io] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: 09 September 2021 13:25
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA documentation

Is scrolling through all the objects the same thing as using NVDA key 2 on the main  keyboard? 
 
Gene
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2021 3:20 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA documentation
 

Hi Quentin ,

I'm not too concerned with arguing the case for default key strokes being setup.

So long as it goes into the manual then people can set the keys up if they wish.

I think these functions can be very useful though. When using object navigation to find elements that we know are on the screen somewhere but may not have a clear sense of the object hierarchy it can be a lot easier if time consuming to just scroll through all of the objects.

I have certainly used this on occasion.

I've assigned them to 3 and 9, prev and next respectively.

Very best wishes,

David

 


David Mellor
 

Hi Gene,
Browsing the objects provides different information than you get from NVDA-b.
Running it on an empty window for example I get told about controls like scroll bars, system menu, minimize and maximize for example.
In as far as the two methods cover similar information, it can require quite some attension to keep up with NVDA-b and lightning response to stop it at the correct point. You'd likely not be far off though for hierarchical navigation. I like to be able to browse one object at a time, like browsing a file line by line rather than with automatic read.
I agree that both are really useful.
Best wishes,
David
 


Rowen Cary
 

These two functions are very good. We have mapped the shortcut keys of these two functions as 3 and 9 by default in the Chinese environment.