NVDA has Acquired a new, and somewhat annoying Feature


Betsy Grenevitch
 

Thank you so very much. It is still sluggish with add-ons off so it must be the beta version. I tried to be brave to try something in beta and I guess it did not work. My daughter keeps telling me I need to be more brave with computers and try new things but it never seems to work out.


Do you know how to tell me how to turn off the status bar so I can try that to see if it would make a difference? I assume you do not need a report now that it is still sluggish without the add-ons, correct? I do not know how to thank you for your patience.



On 4/1/2020 11:53 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,

I and Quentin know two Mozilla employees who might be able to help (I’ll get a Twitter love letter going).

Cheers,

Joseph

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Betsy Grenevitch
Sent: Wednesday, April 1, 2020 8:43 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA has Acquired a new, and somewhat annoying Feature

 

How do I report to Thunderbird what is happening with the beta version? Sorry I know so little so please be patient with me.

 

On 4/1/2020 9:05 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

One should never, and I mean never, expect that beta versions of any software are going to be completely bug free, and all the more so if one thing (Thunderbird, in this case) is a beta that's significantly in advance of the stable software (NVDA, in this case) it's being used with.

Reports of these issues are very valuable, but you really can't expect that anyone will devote a lot of time to them until the release candidate stage is reached unless it happens to be convenient.  Definitely give the feedback to the folks at Mozilla just like you did here.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 

-- 
Betsy Grenevitch
678-862-3876
-- 
Betsy Grenevitch
678-862-3876


Betsy Grenevitch
 

I did not see a link in your previous email so guess I might try this later today. Thanks.


On 4/1/2020 11:57 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Wed, Apr 1, 2020 at 11:50 PM, Betsy Grenevitch wrote:
I do not know how to revert back and if I do will all of my emails stay in tact?
As I noted earlier, downloading the regular Thunderbird release channel installer from:  https://www.thunderbird.net/en-US/download/
then running it should replace your beta channel install with the regular one.

If you have been using IMAP access, all your e-mail messages are on the server and will still be there and be intact even if you were to uninstall Thunderbird entirely and replace it with another e-mail client.   If an install-over install using the regular channel installer doesn't convert you to the release channel, then you would need to uninstall the beta version manually and then run the release channel installer (and in which case you'd probably have to set up your e-mail accounts again, but I can't guarantee that, as it may give you an option to preserve your existing Thunderbird user profile).
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 

-- 
Betsy Grenevitch
678-862-3876


Ron Canazzi
 

Hi Joseph,

Thanks for your efforts.  Thunderbird 68.X is the last version that is fully accessible.  Versions after that do not read the status line--a key feature without which blind users are greatly disadvantage.  Maybe you could mention this glaring issue that has existed since version 68.

On 4/1/2020 11:53 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,

I and Quentin know two Mozilla employees who might be able to help (I’ll get a Twitter love letter going).

Cheers,

Joseph

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Betsy Grenevitch
Sent: Wednesday, April 1, 2020 8:43 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA has Acquired a new, and somewhat annoying Feature

 

How do I report to Thunderbird what is happening with the beta version? Sorry I know so little so please be patient with me.

 

On 4/1/2020 9:05 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

One should never, and I mean never, expect that beta versions of any software are going to be completely bug free, and all the more so if one thing (Thunderbird, in this case) is a beta that's significantly in advance of the stable software (NVDA, in this case) it's being used with.

Reports of these issues are very valuable, but you really can't expect that anyone will devote a lot of time to them until the release candidate stage is reached unless it happens to be convenient.  Definitely give the feedback to the folks at Mozilla just like you did here.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 

-- 
Betsy Grenevitch
678-862-3876

-- 
They Ask Me If I'm Happy; I say Yes.
They ask: "How Happy are You?"
I Say: "I'm as happy as a stow away chimpanzee on a banana boat!"


 

Hi,

As for turning off status bar elements, I don’t know, as I don’t use Thunderbird at all (I use a combination of web email client interfaces, Outlook 365, and Windows 10 Mail to varying degrees).

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Betsy Grenevitch
Sent: Wednesday, April 1, 2020 9:07 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA has Acquired a new, and somewhat annoying Feature

 

Thank you so very much. It is still sluggish with add-ons off so it must be the beta version. I tried to be brave to try something in beta and I guess it did not work. My daughter keeps telling me I need to be more brave with computers and try new things but it never seems to work out.

 

Do you know how to tell me how to turn off the status bar so I can try that to see if it would make a difference? I assume you do not need a report now that it is still sluggish without the add-ons, correct? I do not know how to thank you for your patience.

 

 

On 4/1/2020 11:53 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,

I and Quentin know two Mozilla employees who might be able to help (I’ll get a Twitter love letter going).

Cheers,

Joseph

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Betsy Grenevitch
Sent: Wednesday, April 1, 2020 8:43 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA has Acquired a new, and somewhat annoying Feature

 

How do I report to Thunderbird what is happening with the beta version? Sorry I know so little so please be patient with me.

 

On 4/1/2020 9:05 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:

One should never, and I mean never, expect that beta versions of any software are going to be completely bug free, and all the more so if one thing (Thunderbird, in this case) is a beta that's significantly in advance of the stable software (NVDA, in this case) it's being used with.

Reports of these issues are very valuable, but you really can't expect that anyone will devote a lot of time to them until the release candidate stage is reached unless it happens to be convenient.  Definitely give the feedback to the folks at Mozilla just like you did here.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 

-- 
Betsy Grenevitch
678-862-3876
-- 
Betsy Grenevitch
678-862-3876


 

Hmmm just use the stable version like I do.

Then you don't have a problem.



On 2/04/2020 4:30 pm, Brian Moore wrote:

This is specific to the 75 version betas of thunderbird.  Turning off the status line helps some but not entirely.  they still haven't fixed the ability to sort columns and the addon will no longer let you do it in these versions.


If there was an easy way to go back to the production release I would do it but my mail database won't port back.

Brian.

On 4/1/2020 11:25 PM, Betsy Grenevitch wrote:

I forgot to mention that I do not understand what you turned off to try to use it.


On 4/1/2020 8:34 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:
Is there something new in the Thunderbird betas perhaps?  I just tried with alpha-19867,54f1b727 on Thunderbird 68.6.0 32-bit (the latest regular version?) and it read as normal, so it looks like it's something changed in Thunderbird, and might be worth contacting Mozilla perhaps?  Does it do the same thing if you use NVDA 2019.3.1?  I didn't notice a difference in Thunderbird 68.6, but if you could provide exact steps to repeat and exactly what superfluous information is being read I can double check.

Regards

Quentin.

On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 1:31 AM Betsy Grenevitch <blindangel61@...> wrote:
I am having the same problem and it definitely interrupts the reading of
email.



On 3/31/2020 5:17 PM, Governor staten wrote:
> Hello, everyone. I'm using Thunderbird 75 beta 2 64 bit with the
> latest NVDA Alpha. As of a few days ago, the reading of certain
> processes in Thunderbird is being done. However, it is way too
> verbose. Sometimes it reads pieces of text and letters. I wish I knew
> what this was and how to modify it, or turn it off.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
Betsy Grenevitch
678-862-3876






--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

-- 
Betsy Grenevitch
678-862-3876


 

On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 12:24 AM, Shaun Everiss wrote:
just use the stable version like I do.
Or, if you decide you want to be on a beta channel, hold up your end of the bargain:  report bugs.

While it's fine to try out beta software and ditch it if it doesn't work (yet), if something as critical as what has been described here occurs, it's up to you (any you) to file a bug report about it.  Many bugs these days for pre-release software aren't found by in-house testing groups, but are found by the huge numbers of people who signed up to be on any one of a number of pre-release channels for a given piece of software.  A good example of where there are multiple pre-release channels for a piece of software is the new Edge, that has three:  Canary (updated nightly), Dev (updated weeekly), and Beta (updated every six weeks).

If folks using screen readers aren't willing to report accessibility issues when they are using beta software, then who do you think should be?  You are far more likely to run into those issues, and instantly recognize them, than any sighted developer (or end user) is.  For heaven's sake, take the initiative to identify accessibility issues to development teams when you find them, using the appropriate channel to do that.  And if you don't now what that is, ask, or even better, try a web search on "bug report {insert program here}," and then ask if you don't find a useful result in the first 10 results.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 


 

If you revert back, you have to create a new profile. I did it. I have more email accounts to set up. You have to reset all of your settings. I will be sticking with the "release" version of this program, or go to something else in the future.





On 4/1/2020 11:50 PM, Betsy Grenevitch wrote:

I do not know how to revert back and if I do will all of my emails stay in tact?


Thanks so much for your help.


On 4/1/2020 11:29 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi Betsy and all,

I see.

If I understand you correctly, NVDA somehow does not read next messages automatically when you delete the current message in Thunderbird, and you say this problem began when you updated add-ons and/or Thunderbird. To really figure out if it is Thunderbird, can you try reverting (going back) to latest public version of Thunderbird? If that resolves the problem, I think a love call to Mozilla would be in order (i.e. reporting the problem in hopes of Mozilla understanding and resolving it). Also, given that some folks did report a similar problem, I hope others can chime in with their findings with the steps I wrote earlier.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Betsy Grenevitch
Sent: Wednesday, April 1, 2020 8:24 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA has Acquired a new, and somewhat annoying Feature

 

I assume I have the latest version of thunderbird. It seemed to start acting up about the same time I updated Thunderbird and also did some add-on updates with NVDA but I do not recall what they are.

 

It took me over half an hour even to get in the program tonight when I had shut it down--Thunderbird.

 

I wish I could figure out how to describe what is going one. One thing is when you delete an email it starts saying different letters like it is trying to tell you what is going on. I also can no longer go from one email to the next and have it read smoothly like I used to be able to do by just pushing the delete on the numpad and it going right to the next email. I now have to push insert and then down arrow--not numpad keys for it to stop saying all of those different letters. It is really hard to describe. It was running so smoothly.

 

I wonder if it is because I am running a beta version as I was willing to be a tester for them? I did not think of that earlier.

 

 

On 4/1/2020 8:34 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:

Is there something new in the Thunderbird betas perhaps?  I just tried with alpha-19867,54f1b727 on Thunderbird 68.6.0 32-bit (the latest regular version?) and it read as normal, so it looks like it's something changed in Thunderbird, and might be worth contacting Mozilla perhaps?  Does it do the same thing if you use NVDA 2019.3.1?  I didn't notice a difference in Thunderbird 68.6, but if you could provide exact steps to repeat and exactly what superfluous information is being read I can double check.


Regards

 

Quentin.

 

On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 1:31 AM Betsy Grenevitch <blindangel61@...> wrote:

I am having the same problem and it definitely interrupts the reading of
email.



On 3/31/2020 5:17 PM, Governor staten wrote:
> Hello, everyone. I'm using Thunderbird 75 beta 2 64 bit with the
> latest NVDA Alpha. As of a few days ago, the reading of certain
> processes in Thunderbird is being done. However, it is way too
> verbose. Sometimes it reads pieces of text and letters. I wish I knew
> what this was and how to modify it, or turn it off.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
Betsy Grenevitch
678-862-3876




 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

-- 
Betsy Grenevitch
678-862-3876
-- 
Betsy Grenevitch
678-862-3876


 

Well to be hhonest if it gets that bad you can always get the older 52x release which is not ever going to aparently get updated.



On 2/04/2020 6:02 pm, Governor staten wrote:

If you revert back, you have to create a new profile. I did it. I have more email accounts to set up. You have to reset all of your settings. I will be sticking with the "release" version of this program, or go to something else in the future.





On 4/1/2020 11:50 PM, Betsy Grenevitch wrote:

I do not know how to revert back and if I do will all of my emails stay in tact?


Thanks so much for your help.


On 4/1/2020 11:29 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi Betsy and all,

I see.

If I understand you correctly, NVDA somehow does not read next messages automatically when you delete the current message in Thunderbird, and you say this problem began when you updated add-ons and/or Thunderbird. To really figure out if it is Thunderbird, can you try reverting (going back) to latest public version of Thunderbird? If that resolves the problem, I think a love call to Mozilla would be in order (i.e. reporting the problem in hopes of Mozilla understanding and resolving it). Also, given that some folks did report a similar problem, I hope others can chime in with their findings with the steps I wrote earlier.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Betsy Grenevitch
Sent: Wednesday, April 1, 2020 8:24 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA has Acquired a new, and somewhat annoying Feature

 

I assume I have the latest version of thunderbird. It seemed to start acting up about the same time I updated Thunderbird and also did some add-on updates with NVDA but I do not recall what they are.

 

It took me over half an hour even to get in the program tonight when I had shut it down--Thunderbird.

 

I wish I could figure out how to describe what is going one. One thing is when you delete an email it starts saying different letters like it is trying to tell you what is going on. I also can no longer go from one email to the next and have it read smoothly like I used to be able to do by just pushing the delete on the numpad and it going right to the next email. I now have to push insert and then down arrow--not numpad keys for it to stop saying all of those different letters. It is really hard to describe. It was running so smoothly.

 

I wonder if it is because I am running a beta version as I was willing to be a tester for them? I did not think of that earlier.

 

 

On 4/1/2020 8:34 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:

Is there something new in the Thunderbird betas perhaps?  I just tried with alpha-19867,54f1b727 on Thunderbird 68.6.0 32-bit (the latest regular version?) and it read as normal, so it looks like it's something changed in Thunderbird, and might be worth contacting Mozilla perhaps?  Does it do the same thing if you use NVDA 2019.3.1?  I didn't notice a difference in Thunderbird 68.6, but if you could provide exact steps to repeat and exactly what superfluous information is being read I can double check.


Regards

 

Quentin.

 

On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 1:31 AM Betsy Grenevitch <blindangel61@...> wrote:

I am having the same problem and it definitely interrupts the reading of
email.



On 3/31/2020 5:17 PM, Governor staten wrote:
> Hello, everyone. I'm using Thunderbird 75 beta 2 64 bit with the
> latest NVDA Alpha. As of a few days ago, the reading of certain
> processes in Thunderbird is being done. However, it is way too
> verbose. Sometimes it reads pieces of text and letters. I wish I knew
> what this was and how to modify it, or turn it off.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
Betsy Grenevitch
678-862-3876




 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

-- 
Betsy Grenevitch
678-862-3876
-- 
Betsy Grenevitch
678-862-3876


 

68.6 is great. It does what I need it to do. No annoying issues.


I need to check out web interfaces for mail. I never have done much with that.





On 4/2/2020 1:23 AM, Shaun Everiss wrote:

Well to be hhonest if it gets that bad you can always get the older 52x release which is not ever going to aparently get updated.



On 2/04/2020 6:02 pm, Governor staten wrote:

If you revert back, you have to create a new profile. I did it. I have more email accounts to set up. You have to reset all of your settings. I will be sticking with the "release" version of this program, or go to something else in the future.





On 4/1/2020 11:50 PM, Betsy Grenevitch wrote:

I do not know how to revert back and if I do will all of my emails stay in tact?


Thanks so much for your help.


On 4/1/2020 11:29 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi Betsy and all,

I see.

If I understand you correctly, NVDA somehow does not read next messages automatically when you delete the current message in Thunderbird, and you say this problem began when you updated add-ons and/or Thunderbird. To really figure out if it is Thunderbird, can you try reverting (going back) to latest public version of Thunderbird? If that resolves the problem, I think a love call to Mozilla would be in order (i.e. reporting the problem in hopes of Mozilla understanding and resolving it). Also, given that some folks did report a similar problem, I hope others can chime in with their findings with the steps I wrote earlier.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Betsy Grenevitch
Sent: Wednesday, April 1, 2020 8:24 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA has Acquired a new, and somewhat annoying Feature

 

I assume I have the latest version of thunderbird. It seemed to start acting up about the same time I updated Thunderbird and also did some add-on updates with NVDA but I do not recall what they are.

 

It took me over half an hour even to get in the program tonight when I had shut it down--Thunderbird.

 

I wish I could figure out how to describe what is going one. One thing is when you delete an email it starts saying different letters like it is trying to tell you what is going on. I also can no longer go from one email to the next and have it read smoothly like I used to be able to do by just pushing the delete on the numpad and it going right to the next email. I now have to push insert and then down arrow--not numpad keys for it to stop saying all of those different letters. It is really hard to describe. It was running so smoothly.

 

I wonder if it is because I am running a beta version as I was willing to be a tester for them? I did not think of that earlier.

 

 

On 4/1/2020 8:34 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:

Is there something new in the Thunderbird betas perhaps?  I just tried with alpha-19867,54f1b727 on Thunderbird 68.6.0 32-bit (the latest regular version?) and it read as normal, so it looks like it's something changed in Thunderbird, and might be worth contacting Mozilla perhaps?  Does it do the same thing if you use NVDA 2019.3.1?  I didn't notice a difference in Thunderbird 68.6, but if you could provide exact steps to repeat and exactly what superfluous information is being read I can double check.


Regards

 

Quentin.

 

On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 1:31 AM Betsy Grenevitch <blindangel61@...> wrote:

I am having the same problem and it definitely interrupts the reading of
email.



On 3/31/2020 5:17 PM, Governor staten wrote:
> Hello, everyone. I'm using Thunderbird 75 beta 2 64 bit with the
> latest NVDA Alpha. As of a few days ago, the reading of certain
> processes in Thunderbird is being done. However, it is way too
> verbose. Sometimes it reads pieces of text and letters. I wish I knew
> what this was and how to modify it, or turn it off.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
Betsy Grenevitch
678-862-3876




 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

-- 
Betsy Grenevitch
678-862-3876
-- 
Betsy Grenevitch
678-862-3876


 

Hello all,

Managed to contact a Thunderbird engineer via Twitter. To help figuring out what’s going with recent TB beta releases, this engineer graciously posted archive links for TB betas (use it at your own risk, especially if you wish to report issues to Thunderbird developers in tracking down performance issues):

You must choose the installer that is designed for your processor/platform (win32 or win64; for sake of ese of testing, try win32).

For each beta release, please do as exactly as I say below:

  1. Install each beta, beginning with 74 beta 2.
  2. Use Thunderbird as usual.
  3. Note down issues such as sluggishness or extra chatter.
  4. If you don’t experience issues, install the next (newer) beta.
  5. Repeat steps 2 through 4 until you do come across issues.
  6. Should you experience issues, report to the list immediately so Thunderbird developers can be notified. Be sure to note down exactly what issues you are having and in which Thunderbird beta version you are experiencing these issues.

 

There is a tool called Mozregression that allows developers to pinpoint exactly which change introduced a bug (NVDA developers can also do this through a tool called “git bisect”). But since not many of you are experienced in this sort of thing, the steps I listed above is the next best thing we have.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Governor staten
Sent: Wednesday, April 1, 2020 10:39 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA has Acquired a new, and somewhat annoying Feature

 

68.6 is great. It does what I need it to do. No annoying issues.

 

I need to check out web interfaces for mail. I never have done much with that.

 

 


 

On 4/2/2020 1:23 AM, Shaun Everiss wrote:

Well to be hhonest if it gets that bad you can always get the older 52x release which is not ever going to aparently get updated.

 

 

On 2/04/2020 6:02 pm, Governor staten wrote:

If you revert back, you have to create a new profile. I did it. I have more email accounts to set up. You have to reset all of your settings. I will be sticking with the "release" version of this program, or go to something else in the future.

 

 


 

On 4/1/2020 11:50 PM, Betsy Grenevitch wrote:

I do not know how to revert back and if I do will all of my emails stay in tact?

 

Thanks so much for your help.

 

On 4/1/2020 11:29 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi Betsy and all,

I see.

If I understand you correctly, NVDA somehow does not read next messages automatically when you delete the current message in Thunderbird, and you say this problem began when you updated add-ons and/or Thunderbird. To really figure out if it is Thunderbird, can you try reverting (going back) to latest public version of Thunderbird? If that resolves the problem, I think a love call to Mozilla would be in order (i.e. reporting the problem in hopes of Mozilla understanding and resolving it). Also, given that some folks did report a similar problem, I hope others can chime in with their findings with the steps I wrote earlier.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Betsy Grenevitch
Sent: Wednesday, April 1, 2020 8:24 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA has Acquired a new, and somewhat annoying Feature

 

I assume I have the latest version of thunderbird. It seemed to start acting up about the same time I updated Thunderbird and also did some add-on updates with NVDA but I do not recall what they are.

 

It took me over half an hour even to get in the program tonight when I had shut it down--Thunderbird.

 

I wish I could figure out how to describe what is going one. One thing is when you delete an email it starts saying different letters like it is trying to tell you what is going on. I also can no longer go from one email to the next and have it read smoothly like I used to be able to do by just pushing the delete on the numpad and it going right to the next email. I now have to push insert and then down arrow--not numpad keys for it to stop saying all of those different letters. It is really hard to describe. It was running so smoothly.

 

I wonder if it is because I am running a beta version as I was willing to be a tester for them? I did not think of that earlier.

 

 

On 4/1/2020 8:34 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:

Is there something new in the Thunderbird betas perhaps?  I just tried with alpha-19867,54f1b727 on Thunderbird 68.6.0 32-bit (the latest regular version?) and it read as normal, so it looks like it's something changed in Thunderbird, and might be worth contacting Mozilla perhaps?  Does it do the same thing if you use NVDA 2019.3.1?  I didn't notice a difference in Thunderbird 68.6, but if you could provide exact steps to repeat and exactly what superfluous information is being read I can double check.


Regards

 

Quentin.

 

On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 1:31 AM Betsy Grenevitch <blindangel61@...> wrote:

I am having the same problem and it definitely interrupts the reading of
email.



On 3/31/2020 5:17 PM, Governor staten wrote:
> Hello, everyone. I'm using Thunderbird 75 beta 2 64 bit with the
> latest NVDA Alpha. As of a few days ago, the reading of certain
> processes in Thunderbird is being done. However, it is way too
> verbose. Sometimes it reads pieces of text and letters. I wish I knew
> what this was and how to modify it, or turn it off.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
Betsy Grenevitch
678-862-3876


 

 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

-- 
Betsy Grenevitch
678-862-3876
-- 
Betsy Grenevitch
678-862-3876


Brian Moore
 

HI.  already done. I agree completely. this is part of the bargain when running beta stuff.


On 4/2/2020 12:37 AM, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 12:24 AM, Shaun Everiss wrote:
just use the stable version like I do.
Or, if you decide you want to be on a beta channel, hold up your end of the bargain:  report bugs.

While it's fine to try out beta software and ditch it if it doesn't work (yet), if something as critical as what has been described here occurs, it's up to you (any you) to file a bug report about it.  Many bugs these days for pre-release software aren't found by in-house testing groups, but are found by the huge numbers of people who signed up to be on any one of a number of pre-release channels for a given piece of software.  A good example of where there are multiple pre-release channels for a piece of software is the new Edge, that has three:  Canary (updated nightly), Dev (updated weeekly), and Beta (updated every six weeks).

If folks using screen readers aren't willing to report accessibility issues when they are using beta software, then who do you think should be?  You are far more likely to run into those issues, and instantly recognize them, than any sighted developer (or end user) is.  For heaven's sake, take the initiative to identify accessibility issues to development teams when you find them, using the appropriate channel to do that.  And if you don't now what that is, ask, or even better, try a web search on "bug report {insert program here}," and then ask if you don't find a useful result in the first 10 results.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 


Betsy Grenevitch
 

What list do we report to about our issues. I tried to figure out how to download the bog program and can't seem to succed with that either. Today has not been a good day with computers or embossers.



On 4/2/2020 2:31 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hello all,

Managed to contact a Thunderbird engineer via Twitter. To help figuring out what’s going with recent TB beta releases, this engineer graciously posted archive links for TB betas (use it at your own risk, especially if you wish to report issues to Thunderbird developers in tracking down performance issues):

You must choose the installer that is designed for your processor/platform (win32 or win64; for sake of ese of testing, try win32).

For each beta release, please do as exactly as I say below:

  1. Install each beta, beginning with 74 beta 2.
  2. Use Thunderbird as usual.
  3. Note down issues such as sluggishness or extra chatter.
  4. If you don’t experience issues, install the next (newer) beta.
  5. Repeat steps 2 through 4 until you do come across issues.
  6. Should you experience issues, report to the list immediately so Thunderbird developers can be notified. Be sure to note down exactly what issues you are having and in which Thunderbird beta version you are experiencing these issues.

 

There is a tool called Mozregression that allows developers to pinpoint exactly which change introduced a bug (NVDA developers can also do this through a tool called “git bisect”). But since not many of you are experienced in this sort of thing, the steps I listed above is the next best thing we have.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Governor staten
Sent: Wednesday, April 1, 2020 10:39 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA has Acquired a new, and somewhat annoying Feature

 

68.6 is great. It does what I need it to do. No annoying issues.

 

I need to check out web interfaces for mail. I never have done much with that.

 

 


 

On 4/2/2020 1:23 AM, Shaun Everiss wrote:

Well to be hhonest if it gets that bad you can always get the older 52x release which is not ever going to aparently get updated.

 

 

On 2/04/2020 6:02 pm, Governor staten wrote:

If you revert back, you have to create a new profile. I did it. I have more email accounts to set up. You have to reset all of your settings. I will be sticking with the "release" version of this program, or go to something else in the future.

 

 


 

On 4/1/2020 11:50 PM, Betsy Grenevitch wrote:

I do not know how to revert back and if I do will all of my emails stay in tact?

 

Thanks so much for your help.

 

On 4/1/2020 11:29 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi Betsy and all,

I see.

If I understand you correctly, NVDA somehow does not read next messages automatically when you delete the current message in Thunderbird, and you say this problem began when you updated add-ons and/or Thunderbird. To really figure out if it is Thunderbird, can you try reverting (going back) to latest public version of Thunderbird? If that resolves the problem, I think a love call to Mozilla would be in order (i.e. reporting the problem in hopes of Mozilla understanding and resolving it). Also, given that some folks did report a similar problem, I hope others can chime in with their findings with the steps I wrote earlier.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Betsy Grenevitch
Sent: Wednesday, April 1, 2020 8:24 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA has Acquired a new, and somewhat annoying Feature

 

I assume I have the latest version of thunderbird. It seemed to start acting up about the same time I updated Thunderbird and also did some add-on updates with NVDA but I do not recall what they are.

 

It took me over half an hour even to get in the program tonight when I had shut it down--Thunderbird.

 

I wish I could figure out how to describe what is going one. One thing is when you delete an email it starts saying different letters like it is trying to tell you what is going on. I also can no longer go from one email to the next and have it read smoothly like I used to be able to do by just pushing the delete on the numpad and it going right to the next email. I now have to push insert and then down arrow--not numpad keys for it to stop saying all of those different letters. It is really hard to describe. It was running so smoothly.

 

I wonder if it is because I am running a beta version as I was willing to be a tester for them? I did not think of that earlier.

 

 

On 4/1/2020 8:34 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:

Is there something new in the Thunderbird betas perhaps?  I just tried with alpha-19867,54f1b727 on Thunderbird 68.6.0 32-bit (the latest regular version?) and it read as normal, so it looks like it's something changed in Thunderbird, and might be worth contacting Mozilla perhaps?  Does it do the same thing if you use NVDA 2019.3.1?  I didn't notice a difference in Thunderbird 68.6, but if you could provide exact steps to repeat and exactly what superfluous information is being read I can double check.


Regards

 

Quentin.

 

On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 1:31 AM Betsy Grenevitch <blindangel61@...> wrote:

I am having the same problem and it definitely interrupts the reading of
email.



On 3/31/2020 5:17 PM, Governor staten wrote:
> Hello, everyone. I'm using Thunderbird 75 beta 2 64 bit with the
> latest NVDA Alpha. As of a few days ago, the reading of certain
> processes in Thunderbird is being done. However, it is way too
> verbose. Sometimes it reads pieces of text and letters. I wish I knew
> what this was and how to modify it, or turn it off.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
Betsy Grenevitch
678-862-3876


 

 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

-- 
Betsy Grenevitch
678-862-3876
-- 
Betsy Grenevitch
678-862-3876
-- 
Betsy Grenevitch
678-862-3876


 

Hi,
The best place to report Mozilla product bugs will be Bugzilla; if not, report them here.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Betsy Grenevitch
Sent: Thursday, April 2, 2020 12:12 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA has Acquired a new, and somewhat annoying Feature

 

What list do we report to about our issues. I tried to figure out how to download the bog program and can't seem to succed with that either. Today has not been a good day with computers or embossers.

 

 

On 4/2/2020 2:31 AM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hello all,

Managed to contact a Thunderbird engineer via Twitter. To help figuring out what’s going with recent TB beta releases, this engineer graciously posted archive links for TB betas (use it at your own risk, especially if you wish to report issues to Thunderbird developers in tracking down performance issues):

  1. 74 beta 2: https://archive.mozilla.org/pub/thunderbird/releases/74.0b2/
  2. 75 beta 1: https://archive.mozilla.org/pub/thunderbird/releases/75.0b1/
  3. 75 beta 2: https://archive.mozilla.org/pub/thunderbird/releases/75.0b2/
  4. 75 beta 3: https://archive.mozilla.org/pub/thunderbird/releases/75.0b3/

You must choose the installer that is designed for your processor/platform (win32 or win64; for sake of ese of testing, try win32).

For each beta release, please do as exactly as I say below:

  1. Install each beta, beginning with 74 beta 2.
  2. Use Thunderbird as usual.
  3. Note down issues such as sluggishness or extra chatter.
  4. If you don’t experience issues, install the next (newer) beta.
  5. Repeat steps 2 through 4 until you do come across issues.
  6. Should you experience issues, report to the list immediately so Thunderbird developers can be notified. Be sure to note down exactly what issues you are having and in which Thunderbird beta version you are experiencing these issues.

 

There is a tool called Mozregression that allows developers to pinpoint exactly which change introduced a bug (NVDA developers can also do this through a tool called “git bisect”). But since not many of you are experienced in this sort of thing, the steps I listed above is the next best thing we have.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Governor staten
Sent: Wednesday, April 1, 2020 10:39 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA has Acquired a new, and somewhat annoying Feature

 

68.6 is great. It does what I need it to do. No annoying issues.

 

I need to check out web interfaces for mail. I never have done much with that.

 

 


 

On 4/2/2020 1:23 AM, Shaun Everiss wrote:

Well to be hhonest if it gets that bad you can always get the older 52x release which is not ever going to aparently get updated.

 

 

On 2/04/2020 6:02 pm, Governor staten wrote:

If you revert back, you have to create a new profile. I did it. I have more email accounts to set up. You have to reset all of your settings. I will be sticking with the "release" version of this program, or go to something else in the future.

 

 


 

On 4/1/2020 11:50 PM, Betsy Grenevitch wrote:

I do not know how to revert back and if I do will all of my emails stay in tact?

 

Thanks so much for your help.

 

On 4/1/2020 11:29 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi Betsy and all,

I see.

If I understand you correctly, NVDA somehow does not read next messages automatically when you delete the current message in Thunderbird, and you say this problem began when you updated add-ons and/or Thunderbird. To really figure out if it is Thunderbird, can you try reverting (going back) to latest public version of Thunderbird? If that resolves the problem, I think a love call to Mozilla would be in order (i.e. reporting the problem in hopes of Mozilla understanding and resolving it). Also, given that some folks did report a similar problem, I hope others can chime in with their findings with the steps I wrote earlier.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Betsy Grenevitch
Sent: Wednesday, April 1, 2020 8:24 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA has Acquired a new, and somewhat annoying Feature

 

I assume I have the latest version of thunderbird. It seemed to start acting up about the same time I updated Thunderbird and also did some add-on updates with NVDA but I do not recall what they are.

 

It took me over half an hour even to get in the program tonight when I had shut it down--Thunderbird.

 

I wish I could figure out how to describe what is going one. One thing is when you delete an email it starts saying different letters like it is trying to tell you what is going on. I also can no longer go from one email to the next and have it read smoothly like I used to be able to do by just pushing the delete on the numpad and it going right to the next email. I now have to push insert and then down arrow--not numpad keys for it to stop saying all of those different letters. It is really hard to describe. It was running so smoothly.

 

I wonder if it is because I am running a beta version as I was willing to be a tester for them? I did not think of that earlier.

 

 

On 4/1/2020 8:34 PM, Quentin Christensen wrote:

Is there something new in the Thunderbird betas perhaps?  I just tried with alpha-19867,54f1b727 on Thunderbird 68.6.0 32-bit (the latest regular version?) and it read as normal, so it looks like it's something changed in Thunderbird, and might be worth contacting Mozilla perhaps?  Does it do the same thing if you use NVDA 2019.3.1?  I didn't notice a difference in Thunderbird 68.6, but if you could provide exact steps to repeat and exactly what superfluous information is being read I can double check.


Regards

 

Quentin.

 

On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 1:31 AM Betsy Grenevitch <blindangel61@...> wrote:

I am having the same problem and it definitely interrupts the reading of
email.



On 3/31/2020 5:17 PM, Governor staten wrote:
> Hello, everyone. I'm using Thunderbird 75 beta 2 64 bit with the
> latest NVDA Alpha. As of a few days ago, the reading of certain
> processes in Thunderbird is being done. However, it is way too
> verbose. Sometimes it reads pieces of text and letters. I wish I knew
> what this was and how to modify it, or turn it off.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
Betsy Grenevitch
678-862-3876



 

 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

-- 
Betsy Grenevitch
678-862-3876
-- 
Betsy Grenevitch
678-862-3876
-- 
Betsy Grenevitch
678-862-3876


 

Bugzilla is not a program, but a website, much the same in concept as the issue reporting part of GitHub.

On either of those you need to have an account, and you then need to get to the correct project (e.g., Thunderbird or NVDA, respectively) to file a bug report.  I do not have the actual steps memorized, and if someone has a first bug they want to report I would be happy to set up a time were I could remote in to your computer, as well as have a phone call going, where I can walk you through it and document the steps taken.  They vary depending on what system is used to report the bug.

I have wanted to continue my tutorial series on GitHub and reporting issues for NVDA, but I haven't had an issue to report in recent months, and I'm certainly not going to create a "fake issue" to try to document the steps to create an issue.  Same for Firefox or Thunderbird through Bugzilla.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 


Betsy Grenevitch
 

Brian, if you are really patient with me I would love to work with you on this. I learn step by step and like to write down the steps as I go so I can look it up the next time that process is needed. I went to the link that you sent to me but could not find the right place to sign up to report the bugs with this beta version of Thunderbird. I am on the Eastern time zone and am free for the next hour and a half or otherwise it will have to wait until tomorrow. My evening is packed here until after 10:30 tonight.


Write me at blindangel61@... and I can give you my phone number there if you are able to help.


I am also wondering if there is a way to have the speech say less so maybe the extra information will stop speaking.

I do not want to go back gto the other version of Thunderbird if I have to reset everything again.


Thanks again.


On 4/2/2020 4:28 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
Bugzilla is not a program, but a website, much the same in concept as the issue reporting part of GitHub.

On either of those you need to have an account, and you then need to get to the correct project (e.g., Thunderbird or NVDA, respectively) to file a bug report.  I do not have the actual steps memorized, and if someone has a first bug they want to report I would be happy to set up a time were I could remote in to your computer, as well as have a phone call going, where I can walk you through it and document the steps taken.  They vary depending on what system is used to report the bug.

I have wanted to continue my tutorial series on GitHub and reporting issues for NVDA, but I haven't had an issue to report in recent months, and I'm certainly not going to create a "fake issue" to try to document the steps to create an issue.  Same for Firefox or Thunderbird through Bugzilla.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna

 

 

-- 
Betsy Grenevitch
678-862-3876


 

On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 01:02 AM, Governor staten wrote:
If you revert back [from beta channel to release channel for Thunderbird], you have to create a new profile.
And I can confirm that this is absolutely true, having just done this for someone else this morning.

Yet another reason for me to get on my IMAP soapbox.  With Thunderbird and most modern e-mail clients it takes a few minutes, at most, to re-create an e-mail account in the client, and with IMAP all of your messages and folders remain entirely intact on the server.  It doesn't matter if you're going back from Thunderbird beta to release, or your machine dies, or you decide to change e-mail clients - with IMAP access everything automatically reappears when an e-mail account is set up on any device.

It sure made it much easier to ditch Thunderbird beta and go back to the release channel software in a few short minutes.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

Power is being told you're not loved and not being destroyed by it.

       ~ Madonna