Topics

NVDA in windows terminal on older Win 10 versions


Christian Schoepplein
 

Hi,

I have to use Windows 10 version 1809 on my laptop for my job. With this version I have problems to use the windows terminal. I can't e.g. not read file listings.

On my private laptop with Windows 10 version 2004 installed I do not have those problems.

On both systems the current stable version of NVDA is installed, NVDA 2020.2.

Is it possible to improve the support of windows text console on my old system on my working laptop somehow? I don't know when a newer version of Windows 10 will be rolled out, so a workaround for Windows 1809 would be great.

Cheers and thanks for any hint,

Schoepp


 

Schoepp,

             Have you checked with your organization as to when they will be applying whatever Feature Update they intend to apply next?  Version 1809 is now very old, and is going out of support later this year or May of next for extended support for Enterprise and Educational editions, and I cannot imagine the IT department won't be updating to something significantly more recent.

              In the age of Windows As A Service, it's imperative for developers to keep up with whatever the latest supported versions of Windows 10 are, and when a version is about to go out of support there is no good reason to dedicate resources at that late date.

              I'd be making queries about the next update to Windows 10 on these centrally administered machines, as any changes to NVDA to support version 1809 at this late date would be highly unlikely.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

. . . the presumption of innocence, while essential in the legal realm, does not mean the elimination of common sense outside it.  The willing suspension of disbelief has its limits, or should.

 

    ~ Ruth Marcus,  November 10, 2017, in Washington Post article, Bannon is right: It’s no coincidence The Post broke the Moore story

 

 


Ralf Kefferpuetz
 

Windows 1809 got an extended support for companies due to Covid19 until May 11, 2021.

The company I’m working for is one of the biggest in the IT industry and we are internally still running Win10 1803 and from my experience as bigger a company is as less chances we got to influence the IT department in their decission to go to more recent versions.

 

Cheers,

  Ralf

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Dienstag, 4. August 2020 16:47
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in windows terminal on older Win 10 versions

 

Schoepp,

             Have you checked with your organization as to when they will be applying whatever Feature Update they intend to apply next?  Version 1809 is now very old, and is going out of support later this year or May of next for extended support for Enterprise and Educational editions, and I cannot imagine the IT department won't be updating to something significantly more recent.

              In the age of Windows As A Service, it's imperative for developers to keep up with whatever the latest supported versions of Windows 10 are, and when a version is about to go out of support there is no good reason to dedicate resources at that late date.

              I'd be making queries about the next update to Windows 10 on these centrally administered machines, as any changes to NVDA to support version 1809 at this late date would be highly unlikely.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

. . . the presumption of innocence, while essential in the legal realm, does not mean the elimination of common sense outside it.  The willing suspension of disbelief has its limits, or should.

 

    ~ Ruth Marcus,  November 10, 2017, in Washington Post article, Bannon is right: It’s no coincidence The Post broke the Moore story

 

 


 

On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 11:36 AM, Ralf Kefferpuetz wrote:
from my experience as bigger a company is as less chances we got to influence the IT department in their decission to go to more recent versions.
-
No argument there.  You have to remember (or if I've never shared it, you will now) that I worked for a major defense contractor, E-Systems (long ago sold several times and now part of Raytheon), AT&T (and they don't get bigger than that), as well as two state agencies in Virginia that are subject to the lunacy that is VITA (Virginia Information Technologies Agency - which wasn't really an agency at all, but  a way for Northrup Grumman to line its pockets, that the state paid $38.5 million to in order to terminate the contract for their miserable `service.`).  I recall using Windows XP for several years after Windows 7 was introduced because of just the sort of nonsense you're referring to.

But no sane IT department is going to keep an out of support version of Windows 10 or want to pay for "beyond extended" support for one that has, at least if they've got leadership with any sense.

It's always worth asking about when the next update is planned, as none of this happens without planning, and even when the update comes, it's usually to a Windows 10 version that is at least one, often two, versions behind the latest one.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

. . . the presumption of innocence, while essential in the legal realm, does not mean the elimination of common sense outside it.  The willing suspension of disbelief has its limits, or should.

 

    ~ Ruth Marcus,  November 10, 2017, in Washington Post article, Bannon is right: It’s no coincidence The Post broke the Moore story

 

 


 

Well why don't you ask your it people to upgrade you to 2004, I am sure others will be getting the next version upgrade.

On 4/08/2020 11:23 pm, Christian Schoepplein wrote:
Hi,

I have to use Windows 10 version 1809 on my laptop for my job. With this version I have problems to use the windows terminal. I can't e.g. not read file listings.

On my private laptop with Windows 10 version 2004 installed I do not have those problems.

On both systems the current stable version of NVDA is installed, NVDA 2020.2.

Is it possible to improve the support of windows text console on my old system on my working laptop somehow? I don't know when a newer version of Windows 10 will be rolled out, so a workaround for Windows 1809 would be great.

Cheers and thanks for any hint,

  Schoepp


.


 

Well you can simply tell your company that you can not do your job properly without upgrading to the latest version of windows.

Even if that only gets you 1909 or 1903 or whatever you simply will have to say that.

If you don't get this, either ask to do the work on your own system or if not say you may have no choice but to bring your personal computer to do your job.

That may get a rise out of em.

I have gotten to that point with some places I have done some work with them.

Basically I had to do something in something which wasn't accessible and told my bosses I would then have to take my system to their place and connect to their secured network that does not allow personal computers to connect to.

Not without rewriting everything that is.

They eventually  saw my point.

I know my brother himself an enginier working in a company, has systems that need well access to certain things on older systems and runs vmware images of things.

Point is, no one will want you to have your personal system on a locked down company network.

It will be easier for them to fix their problem in house.

On the other hand if they refuse who knows.

Not sure about the remote stuff for various things, but you never know.

In my day a few years before covid, that was not possible but they may just do that now.

My brother is working at a big company and they seem to be entertained with a work from home at least in part via remote workstation of the company.

It certainly means you have a extra time to do a few chores while working.

If this virus has improved things it is that companies seem to be happier about people working away from any office, and in fact as long as you have net access you can work anywhere you want.

And while I don't work in a company as such I can work from home, excercise, go out and enjoy life and can still work while listening to my cds, digital collection or my spotify enabled stereo while drinking coffee and eating home cooked meals.



On 5/08/2020 3:35 am, Ralf Kefferpuetz wrote:

Windows 1809 got an extended support for companies due to Covid19 until May 11, 2021.

The company I’m working for is one of the biggest in the IT industry and we are internally still running Win10 1803 and from my experience as bigger a company is as less chances we got to influence the IT department in their decission to go to more recent versions.

 

Cheers,

  Ralf

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Dienstag, 4. August 2020 16:47
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA in windows terminal on older Win 10 versions

 

Schoepp,

             Have you checked with your organization as to when they will be applying whatever Feature Update they intend to apply next?  Version 1809 is now very old, and is going out of support later this year or May of next for extended support for Enterprise and Educational editions, and I cannot imagine the IT department won't be updating to something significantly more recent.

              In the age of Windows As A Service, it's imperative for developers to keep up with whatever the latest supported versions of Windows 10 are, and when a version is about to go out of support there is no good reason to dedicate resources at that late date.

              I'd be making queries about the next update to Windows 10 on these centrally administered machines, as any changes to NVDA to support version 1809 at this late date would be highly unlikely.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

. . . the presumption of innocence, while essential in the legal realm, does not mean the elimination of common sense outside it.  The willing suspension of disbelief has its limits, or should.

 

    ~ Ruth Marcus,  November 10, 2017, in Washington Post article, Bannon is right: It’s no coincidence The Post broke the Moore story

 

 


 

Hmmm I understand that.

I co manage a website, for ages and ages, there have been ahcks and the like.

While I was able to fix a few things, and while something sql only took a week, its taken over a year just to get the system updated to the latest php 7.48, and to be honest I wasn't even expecting that.

And then it was done without warning of any kind.

It had 7.2 installed, and I was hoping at least 7.3 but they put it to the latest which seems to be automatically installing itself which is fine.

Its all cash I guess.

At the university I work with, the main super mainframes still run windows xp.

They can't afford to update these, because it cost millions to install the entire load of them, and the extra equipment for the projects and such and its going to cost millions more to upgrade all the hardware.

They have compromised with vms on win10  but they still complain.

A while ago I made the push at some expence to at least have something that didn't need an old os.

The last push was to get rid of some older software that I didn't need but which had worked but still.

I am always making sure I have the latest because I always get the latest supporting software.

Its really risky, but I prefer to fail, and have to reinstall everything and complain about it then than to field complaints from my users.

I really don't like being in the back seat.

I know its probably a pritty bad position to do but I have to many users forgetting their logins, installing malware by mistake and screwing up commands to have to be bundled with updates as well.

I usually try to have the latest installed or as much as I can before its needed so when it is I don't need to field complaints from busy users.

The only thing that does throw me is when I go to upgrade some hardware or software and that thing either is different or doesn't exist as it did before meaning I need to do upskilling and such at once.

I need to help a user fix a remote network issue and well if my own solutions do not work will have to get them the added hardware which will be different.

By chance I have the same component, so I could probably just give them my hardware and have the excuse to upgrade to something a bit better.



On 5/08/2020 3:50 am, Brian Vogel wrote:
On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 11:36 AM, Ralf Kefferpuetz wrote:
from my experience as bigger a company is as less chances we got to influence the IT department in their decission to go to more recent versions.
-
No argument there.  You have to remember (or if I've never shared it, you will now) that I worked for a major defense contractor, E-Systems (long ago sold several times and now part of Raytheon), AT&T (and they don't get bigger than that), as well as two state agencies in Virginia that are subject to the lunacy that is VITA (Virginia Information Technologies Agency - which wasn't really an agency at all, but  a way for Northrup Grumman to line its pockets, that the state paid $38.5 million to in order to terminate the contract for their miserable `service.`).  I recall using Windows XP for several years after Windows 7 was introduced because of just the sort of nonsense you're referring to.

But no sane IT department is going to keep an out of support version of Windows 10 or want to pay for "beyond extended" support for one that has, at least if they've got leadership with any sense.

It's always worth asking about when the next update is planned, as none of this happens without planning, and even when the update comes, it's usually to a Windows 10 version that is at least one, often two, versions behind the latest one.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1909, Build 18363  

. . . the presumption of innocence, while essential in the legal realm, does not mean the elimination of common sense outside it.  The willing suspension of disbelief has its limits, or should.

 

    ~ Ruth Marcus,  November 10, 2017, in Washington Post article, Bannon is right: It’s no coincidence The Post broke the Moore story

 

 


Christian Schoepplein
 

Sorry, upgrading only my system to the newest Windows version will not work due to security policies, software distribution processes and so on. Also bringing my own device with a self installed environment will be not allowed.

Everything that has no official process or is not officialy allowed by the IT security department is not possible novadays, at least not in companies who think that they had to work and function in ITIL or similar process models. No chance to get out of such process models, at least it is very difficult.

Ciao,

Schoepp



Am 04.08.2020 um 22:00 schrieb Shaun Everiss:

Well why don't you ask your it people to upgrade you to 2004, I am sure others will be getting the next version upgrade.
On 4/08/2020 11:23 pm, Christian Schoepplein wrote:
Hi,

I have to use Windows 10 version 1809 on my laptop for my job. With this version I have problems to use the windows terminal. I can't e.g. not read file listings.

On my private laptop with Windows 10 version 2004 installed I do not have those problems.

On both systems the current stable version of NVDA is installed, NVDA 2020.2.

Is it possible to improve the support of windows text console on my old system on my working laptop somehow? I don't know when a newer version of Windows 10 will be rolled out, so a workaround for Windows 1809 would be great.

Cheers and thanks for any hint,

  Schoepp



.


Christian Schoepplein
 

Hi _Brian,

Am 04.08.2020 um 16:46 schrieb Brian Vogel:
             Have you checked with your organization as to when they will be applying whatever Feature Update they intend to apply next? Version 1809 is now very old, and is going out of support later this year or May of next for extended support for Enterprise and Educational editions, and I cannot imagine the IT department won't be updating to something significantly more recent.
The IT department is aware of my problems with the older windows versions, but that will not speed up theire update politic.

We've been migrated from Windows 7 to Windows 10 in December last year, just to give you an idea how things are working here :-).

But OK, I'll check whats possible. Maybe I can get a special system with a newer Windows when things really do not work.
Cheers,

Schoepp