NVDA, MS-Word, and Linked/Embedded Files


 

Before I even think about opening a GitHub ticket about this, I thought I'd ask here in case there's something I'm doing wrong or a setting I don't know about that I need to tweak.  Some of what follows is NVDA-specific while others are about MS-Word in light of what's happening when using the screen reader, but not about NVDA, per se.

A question came up on the JAWS list about how to put a link to a file (not a hyperlink, but a link to another file on your computer) in to a Word document.  This is commonly known in geek speak as object linking and embedding, with the object in this case being another word file.  This is the topic: Links Within Word Document

In my case, I created a Word document in which I linked to another Word file,  I elected to use the Display as icon option, as I didn't want the text from that file displaying inline in the document I was working on, just easy access to it when that is wanted.

1. When I gain focus on the linked file, NVDA announces nothing but, "embedded object."  This is problematic in two respects.  The object is not embedded, but linked, and in this context that is a distinction with significant difference.  The name of the file itself, which actually displays beneath the icon for the linked file (it kind looks like a button, but without an edge around it), is not announced.  So you get nothing but "embedded object."  If a file where to have multiple linked or embedded objects there would be no way for the screen reader user to know exactly which type of thing they've gained focus on nor, in the case of a linked object displayed as icon, the actual name of the file so linked.  Is there something I can change as far as how this is announced?

2. "The sighted way" to fire up a separate Word window for a linked file displayed as icon is to double click on that icon.  But, I cannot seem to activate the icon once I have focus on it using "the typical methods" (like hitting Enter, for instance) when I have focus on it.  If there is a keyboard method to do this, what is it?


--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.  The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression, which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the clearest indicator of who you are.

      ~ Brian Vogel

 


Tony Ballou
 

Hi Brian,


I don't want to send you on a wild goose chase here because to be honest, I hadn't played around with this feature in years, but I do believe there's a way to do it using the paste special option in Microsoft word.  You can use it to paste text as links, and formatting atributes.  I believe that you can do the same thing with files as well. Try messing around with that and see what happens.  


Tony



On 6/6/2021 12:47 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
Before I even think about opening a GitHub ticket about this, I thought I'd ask here in case there's something I'm doing wrong or a setting I don't know about that I need to tweak.  Some of what follows is NVDA-specific while others are about MS-Word in light of what's happening when using the screen reader, but not about NVDA, per se.

A question came up on the JAWS list about how to put a link to a file (not a hyperlink, but a link to another file on your computer) in to a Word document.  This is commonly known in geek speak as object linking and embedding, with the object in this case being another word file.  This is the topic: Links Within Word Document

In my case, I created a Word document in which I linked to another Word file,  I elected to use the Display as icon option, as I didn't want the text from that file displaying inline in the document I was working on, just easy access to it when that is wanted.

1. When I gain focus on the linked file, NVDA announces nothing but, "embedded object."  This is problematic in two respects.  The object is not embedded, but linked, and in this context that is a distinction with significant difference.  The name of the file itself, which actually displays beneath the icon for the linked file (it kind looks like a button, but without an edge around it), is not announced.  So you get nothing but "embedded object."  If a file where to have multiple linked or embedded objects there would be no way for the screen reader user to know exactly which type of thing they've gained focus on nor, in the case of a linked object displayed as icon, the actual name of the file so linked.  Is there something I can change as far as how this is announced?

2. "The sighted way" to fire up a separate Word window for a linked file displayed as icon is to double click on that icon.  But, I cannot seem to activate the icon once I have focus on it using "the typical methods" (like hitting Enter, for instance) when I have focus on it.  If there is a keyboard method to do this, what is it?


--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.  The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression, which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the clearest indicator of who you are.

      ~ Brian Vogel

 


Pranav Lal
 

Hi Brian,

 

There is no way to label the object. Having said that, try going into its properties and check if you can add an alternative text description.

I did not know that you can link multiple objects with a single link.

 

As for activating the link, I send my documents to sighted people and do ensure I keep a copy of whatever I am linking to. I do not know of any accessible way of opening such documents.

 

Pranav

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Sunday, June 6, 2021 10:17 PM
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] NVDA, MS-Word, and Linked/Embedded Files

 

Before I even think about opening a GitHub ticket about this, I thought I'd ask here in case there's something I'm doing wrong or a setting I don't know about that I need to tweak.  Some of what follows is NVDA-specific while others are about MS-Word in light of what's happening when using the screen reader, but not about NVDA, per se.

A question came up on the JAWS list about how to put a link to a file (not a hyperlink, but a link to another file on your computer) in to a Word document.  This is commonly known in geek speak as object linking and embedding, with the object in this case being another word file.  This is the topic: Links Within Word Document

In my case, I created a Word document in which I linked to another Word file,  I elected to use the Display as icon option, as I didn't want the text from that file displaying inline in the document I was working on, just easy access to it when that is wanted.

1. When I gain focus on the linked file, NVDA announces nothing but, "embedded object."  This is problematic in two respects.  The object is not embedded, but linked, and in this context that is a distinction with significant difference.  The name of the file itself, which actually displays beneath the icon for the linked file (it kind looks like a button, but without an edge around it), is not announced.  So you get nothing but "embedded object."  If a file where to have multiple linked or embedded objects there would be no way for the screen reader user to know exactly which type of thing they've gained focus on nor, in the case of a linked object displayed as icon, the actual name of the file so linked.  Is there something I can change as far as how this is announced?

2. "The sighted way" to fire up a separate Word window for a linked file displayed as icon is to double click on that icon.  But, I cannot seem to activate the icon once I have focus on it using "the typical methods" (like hitting Enter, for instance) when I have focus on it.  If there is a keyboard method to do this, what is it?


--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.  The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression, which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the clearest indicator of who you are.

      ~ Brian Vogel

 


Sascha Cowley
 

You can open the associated document through the context menu > Document Object > Open. I have not been able to get NVDA to report the embedded document name, either.


 

On Sun, Jun 6, 2021 at 11:24 PM, Sascha Cowley wrote:
I have not been able to get NVDA to report the embedded document name, either.
-
Which is a major stumbling block, as far as I'm concerned.  But it may be that Word does not expose "the name" assigned to the object to the screen reader at all.

But I thank you for confirming that I'm not the only one who's having this issue.

Also thanks to all for the Context Menu technique.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.  The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression, which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the clearest indicator of who you are.

      ~ Brian Vogel

 


Luke Davis
 

Brian

What method are you using to link the file?

I have not actually done this since Word 2003 or 97, so I started with the most obvious method.

1. I opened explorer and found a word document. (.doc format)
2. I Pressed shift+applications (shift right-click), to get an enhanced context menu.
3. I pressed a, to copy as path.
4. I opened a blank document in Word 2019.
5. I Typed two lines of text, with a blank in the middle.
6. I went to the blank between the lines, and pressed applications.
7. I selected "Create link".
8. I pasted (control+v), and deleted the included quotes that come with pasted results of copy as path.
9. I changed no other settings, and pressed enter. There is some kind of label setting in there, but it was already set to the filename.

Between my lines of text, there was now the full path and name of the linked file. I was able to move into the filename with arrow keys, and press enter to open it.
I also tried in browse mode, with the same results.

I suspect I am doing this differently to how you did it, since I got no icon option or the other things you described.

Luke


Luke Davis
 

Luke Davis wrote:

What method are you using to link the file?
In the wrong order, I then read through the JFW discussion, and learned two things.

1) You are talking about the Control+k or Alt+n, j, j method, not the context menu method I tried.
And
2) People really don't pay attention to the details of what other people ask for. Yeesh.

Luke


 

On Mon, Jun 7, 2021 at 12:39 AM, Luke Davis wrote:
You are talking about the Control+k or Alt+n, j, j method
-
I am talking only about the latter.  That was described by me, in detail, in the referenced content on the JAWS group.

I use CTRL+K strictly for hyperlinks.

I am talking about object linking and embedding here, and had hoped that there may have been something I missed about making NVDA (or any screen reader, in all probability) actually tell you the name of the file that's linked and where the show as icon option for the linked content was employed.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.  The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression, which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the clearest indicator of who you are.

      ~ Brian Vogel

 


Luke Davis
 

Brian Vogel wrote:

I am talking about object linking and embedding here, and had hoped that there may have been something I missed about making NVDA (or any screen
reader, in all probability) actually tell you the name of the file that's linked and where the show as icon option for the linked content was employed.
Here is my question on this. The method I described (Word context menu, create link): what is it for, and how is it inferior to object linking/embedding in the way you described?

I assume MS has both there for a reason, and that they also act differently for a reason.
But visually what is the difference in the end result?
Why should one method be preferred over the other?

The method I found seems to include the filename just fine, but I'm guessing it is less preferable than object embedding for some reason I am missing.

Luke


 

Luke,

I was neither saying nor implying that one method is better than another, and I'll check yours out later.

But when I (or anyone) am having issues with the result of using a specific Word feature, using a specific technique, and asking whether others are having the same issue when doing the same thing, other options aren't directly pertinent.

I have nothing against workarounds, or presentation of other options, but that wasn't the question I was seeking an answer for.

I'll have to check out what the difference(s) may or may not be using the steps you gave, but that won't be tonight.
--

Brian - Windows 10, 64-Bit, Version 21H1, Build 19043  

I do not understand why some seek to separate a person from their actions.  The self is composed of an individual’s thoughts, actions, and expression, which are contained in and actuated by the body.  What you do and say is the clearest indicator of who you are.

      ~ Brian Vogel

 


Luke Davis
 

Oh I understood that, but having found the second method while the first was at issue, the question came to mind.
I note that nobody on that first thread you mentioned suggested the second method, which is what makes me think it is either less common or less capable in some way.

But never having used document linking and embedding by either method (well, maybe once, 15 years ago), I am completely ignorant of the positives and negatives of each method.

Luke

Brian Vogel wrote:

Luke,I was neither saying nor implying that one method is better than another, and I'll check yours out later.But when I (or anyone) am having issues with
the result of using a specific Word feature, using a specific technique, and asking whether others are having the same issue when doing the same thing,
other options aren't directly pertinent.I have nothing against workarounds, or presentation of other options, but that wasn't the question I was seeking an
answer for.I'll have to check out what the difference(s) may or may not be using the steps you gave, but that won't be tonight.