Topics

NVDA on a Lenovo Miix 630 - no modifier key at all

 

Hello all,

I just bought a Lenovo Miix 630 laptop: a little, neat thing to travel with.
My problem is that the NVDA modifier keys do not work. The computer seems to have both Caps Lock and Insert available, because when I finally was able to access the keyboard help using the Miix computer remotely from another computer, it says "NVDA" when I press Caps Lock or Insert, and also Caps Lock comes on when I press it twice, so it seems that everything should work. But still, if I press, say Caps Lock + B, it acts like I would have pressed only the letter B.

This is not only an NVDA issue; exactly the same thing happens with Narrator. I cannot use any narrator commands that involve the Caps Lock key.
Another pain is that I haven't been able to reverse the function keys, so I have to press. for example, Alt+FN+F4 to get out from an application.
I do not know whether these two problems are somehow related.

Especially the fact that I don't have a NVDA modifier key makes the thing almost unusable.
Has anyone seen something like this and maybe been able to solve the problem?

 

hello.
did you check caps lock in the nvda preferences keyboard settings to
be used as nvda modifeer key?
its unchecked by default and you should activate it manually if you need.

On 5/28/20, Isak Sand <@IsakSand> wrote:
Hello all,

I just bought a Lenovo Miix 630 laptop: a little, neat thing to travel
with.
My problem is that the NVDA modifier keys do not work. The computer seems to
have both Caps Lock and Insert available, because when I finally was able to
access the keyboard help using the Miix computer remotely from another
computer, it says "NVDA" when I press Caps Lock or Insert, and also Caps
Lock comes on when I press it twice, so it seems that everything should
work. But still, if I press, say Caps Lock + B, it acts like I would have
pressed only the letter B.

This is not only an NVDA issue; exactly the same thing happens with
Narrator. I cannot use any narrator commands that involve the Caps Lock
key.
Another pain is that I haven't been able to reverse the function keys, so I
have to press. for example, Alt+FN+F4 to get out from an application.
I do not know whether these two problems are somehow related.

Especially the fact that I don't have a NVDA modifier key makes the thing
almost unusable.
Has anyone seen something like this and maybe been able to solve the
problem?



--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali

 

Hello,

Yes, I did. All three options (Caps Lock, NumPad Insert and Insert) are selected. And, as I wrote, two hits on the Caps Lock key are required for Caps Lock to be enabled. To me it seems that the system somehow ignores Caps Lock if it is pressed together with another key or other keys.

Rob Hudson
 

For the function key issue, try to hitt fn+escape. This turns on the normal function key behavior.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Isak Sand" <@IsakSand>
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 01:47:58 -0700
Subject: [nvda] NVDA on a Lenovo Miix 630 - no modifier key at all

Hello all,

I just bought a Lenovo Miix 630 laptop: a little, neat thing to travel with.
My problem is that the NVDA modifier keys do not work. The computer seems to have both Caps Lock and Insert available, because when I finally was able to access the keyboard help using the Miix computer remotely from another computer, it says "NVDA" when I press Caps Lock or Insert, and also Caps Lock comes on when I press it twice, so it seems that everything should work. But still, if I press, say Caps Lock + B, it acts like I would have pressed only the letter B.

This is not only an NVDA issue; exactly the same thing happens with Narrator. I cannot use any narrator commands that involve the Caps Lock key.
Another pain is that I haven't been able to reverse the function keys, so I have to press. for example, Alt+FN+F4 to get out from an application.
I do not know whether these two problems are somehow related.

Especially the fact that I don't have a NVDA modifier key makes the thing almost unusable.
Has anyone seen something like this and maybe been able to solve the problem?




Gene
 

As to whether the two problems are related, I would think so.  Press and hold the fn key and then press the NVDA key to see if it works.  If it does, you will know the problem is the FN key.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: zahra
Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2020 4:05 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA on a Lenovo Miix 630 - no modifier key at all

hello.
did you check caps lock in the nvda preferences keyboard settings to
be used as nvda modifeer key?
its unchecked by default and you should activate it manually if you need.

On 5/28/20, Isak Sand <isak.sand@...> wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> I just bought a Lenovo Miix 630 laptop: a little, neat thing to travel
> with.
> My problem is that the NVDA modifier keys do not work. The computer seems to
> have both Caps Lock and Insert available, because when I finally was able to
> access the keyboard help using the Miix computer remotely from another
> computer, it says "NVDA" when I press Caps Lock or Insert, and also Caps
> Lock comes on when I press it twice, so it seems that everything should
> work. But still, if I press, say Caps Lock + B, it acts like I would have
> pressed only the letter B.
>
> This is not only an NVDA issue; exactly the same thing happens with
> Narrator. I cannot use any narrator commands that involve the Caps Lock
> key.
> Another pain is that I haven't been able to reverse the function keys, so I
> have to press. for example, Alt+FN+F4 to get out from an application.
> I do not know whether these two problems are somehow related.
>
> Especially the fact that I don't have a NVDA modifier key makes the thing
> almost unusable.
> Has anyone seen something like this and maybe been able to solve the
> problem?
>
>
>
>


--
By God,
were I given all the seven heavens
with all they contain
in order that
I may disobey God
by depriving an ant
from the husk of a grain of barley,
I would not do it.
imam ali


 

Hello,

Thanks for your suggestions!
Unfortunately, FN + Escape does not work on this machine.
And I can neither accomplish NVDA commands by pressing FN + NVDA.

I installed a application  called SharpKeys which is designed to re-map keys to other ones. I tried to re-map Caps Lock to be NumPad 0, but it did not help either.

I guess it would be possible to re-map caps lock to some key that would be recognized while pressing multiple keys together with it, but then I would have to change every NVDA command accordingly and that would be a huge amount of work.

Chris
 

I think you have answered your own question

Use the FN key with the NVDA key and see what happens

 

 

Ie NVDA+FN+B

 

 

 

From: Isak Sand
Sent: 28 May 2020 09:48
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: [nvda] NVDA on a Lenovo Miix 630 - no modifier key at all

 

Hello all,

I just bought a Lenovo Miix 630 laptop: a little, neat thing to travel with.
My problem is that the NVDA modifier keys do not work. The computer seems to have both Caps Lock and Insert available, because when I finally was able to access the keyboard help using the Miix computer remotely from another computer, it says "NVDA" when I press Caps Lock or Insert, and also Caps Lock comes on when I press it twice, so it seems that everything should work. But still, if I press, say Caps Lock + B, it acts like I would have pressed only the letter B.

This is not only an NVDA issue; exactly the same thing happens with Narrator. I cannot use any narrator commands that involve the Caps Lock key.
Another pain is that I haven't been able to reverse the function keys, so I have to press. for example, Alt+FN+F4 to get out from an application.
I do not know whether these two problems are somehow related.

Especially the fact that I don't have a NVDA modifier key makes the thing almost unusable.
Has anyone seen something like this and maybe been able to solve the problem?

 

 

Unfortunately, it does not work.

Rob Hudson
 

Sounds like you need to get into the bios then. Under settings/advanced there are options to handle the keyboard. Of course, that means sighted help.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Isak Sand" <@IsakSand>
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 03:57:30 -0700
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA on a Lenovo Miix 630 - no modifier key at all

Hello,

Thanks for your suggestions!
Unfortunately, FN + Escape does not work on this machine.
And I can neither accomplish NVDA commands by pressing FN + NVDA.

I installed a application called SharpKeys which is designed to re-map keys to other ones. I tried to re-map Caps Lock to be NumPad 0, but it did not help either.

I guess it would be possible to re-map caps lock to some key that would be recognized while pressing multiple keys together with it, but then I would have to change every NVDA command accordingly and that would be a huge amount of work.




Ralf Kefferpuetz
 

There is something wrong. Your model has a capsLock key and should work with NVDA. Please start Narrator and press CapsLock-1 to enter lerning mode. If that works your capsLock key behaves normal. In this mode you can also find your other insert key.

Next step would be to find out why Narrator works with your capsLock key as a modifier and NVDA not.

Let us know the outcome.

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Isak Sand
Sent: Donnerstag, 28. Mai 2020 12:58
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA on a Lenovo Miix 630 - no modifier key at all

 

Hello,

Thanks for your suggestions!
Unfortunately, FN + Escape does not work on this machine.
And I can neither accomplish NVDA commands by pressing FN + NVDA.

I installed a application  called SharpKeys which is designed to re-map keys to other ones. I tried to re-map Caps Lock to be NumPad 0, but it did not help either.

I guess it would be possible to re-map caps lock to some key that would be recognized while pressing multiple keys together with it, but then I would have to change every NVDA command accordingly and that would be a huge amount of work.

Gene
 

Since you said you can use the NVDA key with another keyboard, it sounds as though that specific keyboard may somehow be sending codes to the computer that NVDA can't work with.  Someone with technical knowledge on the subject may be able to say whether I am right but that's my guess.  I doubt that remapping would do any good since I would think it would just tell another key to do exactly what the keys already do that is causing the problem.  You are telling another key to perform the same function that another key is performing now, not changing the code or the way the code is sent to the computer. 
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Isak Sand
Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2020 5:57 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA on a Lenovo Miix 630 - no modifier key at all

Hello,

Thanks for your suggestions!
Unfortunately, FN + Escape does not work on this machine.
And I can neither accomplish NVDA commands by pressing FN + NVDA.

I installed a application  called SharpKeys which is designed to re-map keys to other ones. I tried to re-map Caps Lock to be NumPad 0, but it did not help either.

I guess it would be possible to re-map caps lock to some key that would be recognized while pressing multiple keys together with it, but then I would have to change every NVDA command accordingly and that would be a huge amount of work.

Gene
 

First, does the caps lock key actually perform its function when it isn't set as an NVDA key?  If you press it once and type, are letters all capitalized?  So far, we haven't established if the keys do what they are supposed to do or if they do nothing.  If they do nothing, then that sounds like some sort of defect in the computer.  I doubt the BIOS would have any such setting such as, disable caps lock and insert keys.  Perhaps exchanging the computer for another or perhaps another different brand and/or model would be the thing to do.  It would be very interesting to know, however, if the caps lock key does what it is supposed to do when you don't have it set as an NVDA key.  I hadn't thought about the question of whether the keys work at all when I wrote my last message. 

Another option might be to use a USB external numpad with the computer.  If you want to keep that specific machine and not go through the inconvenience of returning it for another one, that may solve the problem.  I use the caps lock for certain NVDA functions and I wouldn't be satisfied with using an external numpad.  If you would be, you may want to do that.  But it would be important to get recommendations from list members because some external Numpads don't work with NVDA.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Rob Hudson
Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2020 6:41 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA on a Lenovo Miix 630 - no modifier key at all

Sounds like you need to get into the bios then. Under settings/advanced there are options to handle the keyboard. Of course, that means sighted help.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Isak Sand" <isak.sand@...>
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 03:57:30 -0700
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA on a Lenovo Miix 630 - no modifier key at all

> Hello,
>
> Thanks for your suggestions!
> Unfortunately, FN + Escape does not work on this machine.
> And I can neither accomplish NVDA commands by pressing FN + NVDA.
>
> I installed a application  called SharpKeys which is designed to re-map keys to other ones. I tried to re-map Caps Lock to be NumPad 0, but it did not help either.
>
> I guess it would be possible to re-map caps lock to some key that would be recognized while pressing multiple keys together with it, but then I would have to change every NVDA command accordingly and that would be a huge amount of work.
>
>
>
>
>


 

All,

Thanks so much for your input!
First of all, this is not an NVDA-specific issue. Caps Lock does not work with Narrator either.

When I configure NVDA so that Caps Lock is not used as an NVDA key, Caps Lock works just as it is supposed to do: when Caps Lock is pressed once, NVDA tells that caps Lock is on and all typed letters are capitalized.

I have not yet tested to have another keyboard connected to the machine itself; I just forced it into Keyboard Help using the Remote Access addon. I set up a connection between my older Lenovo and that new Lenovo Miix and pressed Insert+1, just to be able to explore the keyboard properly.

Jackie
 

Isak, did you ensure that the capslock key was checked to work as a
NVDA modifier?

On 5/28/20, Isak Sand <@IsakSand> wrote:
All,

Thanks so much for your input!
First of all, this is not an NVDA-specific issue. Caps Lock does not work
with Narrator either.

When I configure NVDA so that Caps Lock is not used as an NVDA key, Caps
Lock works just as it is supposed to do: when Caps Lock is pressed once,
NVDA tells that caps Lock is on and all typed letters are capitalized.

I have not yet tested to have another keyboard connected to the machine
itself; I just forced it into Keyboard Help using the Remote Access addon. I
set up a connection between my older Lenovo and that new Lenovo Miix and
pressed Insert+1, just to be able to explore the keyboard properly.



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Tyler Spivey
 

It sounds like the keyboard on that machine just doesn't like caps lock
pressed with another key. That's rather unfortunate if it's a hardware
problem, and not some software doing it.
Do you have another keyboard you can plug in and test? That might not
rule out software completely, though.

Here are some things you can do to get a modifier:

1. Find your insert key. It might be fn+m for numpad insert, or some
other key, and use that.
2. If you don't have one or that's inconvenient, then you can use
SharpKeys to remap something to insert.
Right alt might work, if you have one. You'll want to find a key that's
easy to hit, and you can't use it for its normal function after you
remap it.
3. Write an addon to remap some other key as your NVDA modifier. This is
similar to the SharpKeys solution, except you could get the original
functionality of that key by hitting it twice.

You can also use the Input gestures dialog to remap NVDA functions to
other key combinations which don't need the NVDA modifier.

On 5/28/2020 7:12 AM, Isak Sand wrote:
All,

Thanks so much for your input!
First of all, this is not an NVDA-specific issue. Caps Lock does not
work with Narrator either.

When I configure NVDA so that Caps Lock is not used as an NVDA key, Caps
Lock works just as it is supposed to do: when Caps Lock is pressed once,
NVDA tells that caps Lock is on and all typed letters are capitalized.

I have not yet tested to have another keyboard connected to the machine
itself; I just forced it into Keyboard Help using the Remote Access
addon. I set up a connection between my older Lenovo and that new Lenovo
Miix and pressed Insert+1, just to be able to explore the keyboard
properly.

Gene
 

It sounds to me as though the keyboard may generate a code that screen-readers don't work with.  Since the key does what it is supposed to do when not used as an NVDA key, the explanation appears to be that the code used by the key is not one that NVDA looks for, even though the computer itself responds to it.  You may want to try another keyboard and decide what you want to do when you see the results.
 
Gene

----- Original Message -----
From: Isak Sand
Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2020 9:12 AM
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA on a Lenovo Miix 630 - no modifier key at all

All,

Thanks so much for your input!
First of all, this is not an NVDA-specific issue. Caps Lock does not work with Narrator either.

When I configure NVDA so that Caps Lock is not used as an NVDA key, Caps Lock works just as it is supposed to do: when Caps Lock is pressed once, NVDA tells that caps Lock is on and all typed letters are capitalized.

I have not yet tested to have another keyboard connected to the machine itself; I just forced it into Keyboard Help using the Remote Access addon. I set up a connection between my older Lenovo and that new Lenovo Miix and pressed Insert+1, just to be able to explore the keyboard properly.

 

Hello,

I will try with another keyboard.

Unfortunately, the Insert key does exactly the same thing as Caps Lock, and FN + Insert is not to any help either.

I have installed SharpKey, and I tried to re-map Caps Lock to Numpad 0, but it did not work.

And then I played around a bit with Input Gestures, and I tried to, just as a test, put Print Screen + S to toggle the speech on and off, but no luck there either; the place where you typed in the key command just took the Print Screen. Maybe this is by design.

 

A little update.
I just tested with a Bluetooth keyboard, and the issue was not present.
It's not a solution for me to use a separate Bluetooth keyboard, since the keyboard that comes with it is quite good and works as a case for the tablet, but maybe it can help track down the problem.
Just to make the thing a bit more clear, the keyboard that comes with the device is attached to the tablet part using some own docking system; I've not seen such a system before. In the Device Manager it shows just up as a HID Keyboard Device. I have tried updating the drivers through the Device Manager with no luck.

Chris Mullins
 

                                Isak

Is this device using an ARM processor?   

 

Cheers

Chris

 

From: Isak Sand
Sent: 28 May 2020 18:15
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA on a Lenovo Miix 630 - no modifier key at all

 

A little update.
I just tested with a Bluetooth keyboard, and the issue was not present.
It's not a solution for me to use a separate Bluetooth keyboard, since the keyboard that comes with it is quite good and works as a case for the tablet, but maybe it can help track down the problem.
Just to make the thing a bit more clear, the keyboard that comes with the device is attached to the tablet part using some own docking system; I've not seen such a system before. In the Device Manager it shows just up as a HID Keyboard Device. I have tried updating the drivers through the Device Manager with no luck.

 

 

Hello,

Yes, it has an ARM-based Qualcomm SnapDragon 635.