NVDA reporting blank


William
 

Hello all,

When there is a empty line, nvda will report "blank."

But, if the line contain only spaces, say " " nvda will say "space blank."


I wanna understand why nvda still regard it as blank when there are spaces?

Thanks,

William.


Quentin Christensen
 

What is the context and would you rather it read?


On Fri, May 27, 2022 at 11:20 AM William <xsuper.sillyx@...> wrote:
Hello all,

When there is a empty line, nvda will report "blank."

But, if the line contain only spaces, say " " nvda will say "space blank."


I wanna understand why nvda still regard it as blank when there are spaces?

Thanks,

William.











--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


William
 

Hi Quentin

Hmm, I am just wondering to my understand, blank is nothing, but if there is spaces, and it says blank, I may be confused.






Quentin Christensen 於 27/5/2022 10:13 寫道:

What is the context and would you rather it read?

On Fri, May 27, 2022 at 11:20 AM William <xsuper.sillyx@...> wrote:
Hello all,

When there is a empty line, nvda will report "blank."

But, if the line contain only spaces, say " " nvda will say "space blank."


I wanna understand why nvda still regard it as blank when there are spaces?

Thanks,

William.











--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Gene
 

It sounds to me as though you aren't reporting when it says space and blank with enough detail.  If I have a blank line in Notepad, I hear blank.  When I put spaces on the line and nothing else, it still says blank.  But if I want to check to see if there are any spaces on the line and I issue the say current line command twice quickly, the number of spaces are spoken on the line and blank isn't.

That makes sense since if it announced space when it saw spaces in a line when not spelling the line, you would hear space announced during ordinary reading between every word.

Gene

On 5/26/2022 9:43 PM, William wrote:

Hi Quentin

Hmm, I am just wondering to my understand, blank is nothing, but if there is spaces, and it says blank, I may be confused.






Quentin Christensen 於 27/5/2022 10:13 寫道:

What is the context and would you rather it read?

On Fri, May 27, 2022 at 11:20 AM William <xsuper.sillyx@...> wrote:
Hello all,

When there is a empty line, nvda will report "blank."

But, if the line contain only spaces, say " " nvda will say "space blank."


I wanna understand why nvda still regard it as blank when there are spaces?

Thanks,

William.











--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager



Gene
 

Also, if I move by character with the left and right arrows and there are spaces on a line, I hear space as I move and if there are words and spaces, I hear the words spelled as I move and space spoken between words.  When I up and down arrow among lines with spaces and nothing else, I hear blank.  All this makes sense.  You don't want to hear space spoken when you are reading lines.  You do want to hear space spoken when you are moving by character through a line.

Gene

On 5/26/2022 10:32 PM, Gene wrote:
It sounds to me as though you aren't reporting when it says space and blank with enough detail.  If I have a blank line in Notepad, I hear blank.  When I put spaces on the line and nothing else, it still says blank.  But if I want to check to see if there are any spaces on the line and I issue the say current line command twice quickly, the number of spaces are spoken on the line and blank isn't.

That makes sense since if it announced space when it saw spaces in a line when not spelling the line, you would hear space announced during ordinary reading between every word.

Gene

On 5/26/2022 9:43 PM, William wrote:

Hi Quentin

Hmm, I am just wondering to my understand, blank is nothing, but if there is spaces, and it says blank, I may be confused.






Quentin Christensen 於 27/5/2022 10:13 寫道:

What is the context and would you rather it read?

On Fri, May 27, 2022 at 11:20 AM William <xsuper.sillyx@...> wrote:
Hello all,

When there is a empty line, nvda will report "blank."

But, if the line contain only spaces, say " " nvda will say "space blank."


I wanna understand why nvda still regard it as blank when there are spaces?

Thanks,

William.











--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager




Quentin Christensen
 

It could also be argued that sighted users don't see anything for whitespace (either spaces, tabs, newlines, etc) (ok Word with non-printable characters displayed is an exception).

To the OP, In any case, if you can think of a good workaround and use case, then feel free to create an issue.  As Gene noted, you don't generally want spaces between words read out when just reading regular text, and depending on how you navigate, they ARE reported now.  Whether that fits what you need, will depend on.... what you need, and what you are doing.

On Fri, May 27, 2022 at 2:09 PM Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:
Also, if I move by character with the left and right arrows and there are spaces on a line, I hear space as I move and if there are words and spaces, I hear the words spelled as I move and space spoken between words.  When I up and down arrow among lines with spaces and nothing else, I hear blank.  All this makes sense.  You don't want to hear space spoken when you are reading lines.  You do want to hear space spoken when you are moving by character through a line.

Gene

On 5/26/2022 10:32 PM, Gene wrote:
It sounds to me as though you aren't reporting when it says space and blank with enough detail.  If I have a blank line in Notepad, I hear blank.  When I put spaces on the line and nothing else, it still says blank.  But if I want to check to see if there are any spaces on the line and I issue the say current line command twice quickly, the number of spaces are spoken on the line and blank isn't.

That makes sense since if it announced space when it saw spaces in a line when not spelling the line, you would hear space announced during ordinary reading between every word.

Gene

On 5/26/2022 9:43 PM, William wrote:

Hi Quentin

Hmm, I am just wondering to my understand, blank is nothing, but if there is spaces, and it says blank, I may be confused.






Quentin Christensen 於 27/5/2022 10:13 寫道:

What is the context and would you rather it read?

On Fri, May 27, 2022 at 11:20 AM William <xsuper.sillyx@...> wrote:
Hello all,

When there is a empty line, nvda will report "blank."

But, if the line contain only spaces, say " " nvda will say "space blank."


I wanna understand why nvda still regard it as blank when there are spaces?

Thanks,

William.











--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager





--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


Ron Canazzi
 

Hi Group,

I have experienced the following issue with Blank lines and symbols. When I receive a message from audible informing me of books or things I might be interested in, I usually get a first line like 'Audible an Amazon company. Then I press the down arrow key 5 times and hear absolutely nothing. I do not hear blank--but nothing is spoken. When I hit the sixth line, then speech resumes. Sighted people tell me there are strange characters on those 5 lines--some kind of ASCII art for appearance sake.

I wonder if this is what some people are experiencing.


On 5/26/2022 11:32 PM, Gene wrote:
It sounds to me as though you aren't reporting when it says space and blank with enough detail.  If I have a blank line in Notepad, I hear blank.  When I put spaces on the line and nothing else, it still says blank.  But if I want to check to see if there are any spaces on the line and I issue the say current line command twice quickly, the number of spaces are spoken on the line and blank isn't.

That makes sense since if it announced space when it saw spaces in a line when not spelling the line, you would hear space announced during ordinary reading between every word.

Gene

On 5/26/2022 9:43 PM, William wrote:

Hi Quentin

Hmm, I am just wondering to my understand, blank is nothing, but if there is spaces, and it says blank, I may be confused.






Quentin Christensen 於 27/5/2022 10:13 寫道:

What is the context and would you rather it read?

On Fri, May 27, 2022 at 11:20 AM William <xsuper.sillyx@...> wrote:
Hello all,

When there is a empty line, nvda will report "blank."

But, if the line contain only spaces, say " " nvda will say "space blank."


I wanna understand why nvda still regard it as blank when there are spaces?

Thanks,

William.











--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager



-- 
Signature:
For a nation to admit it has done grevous wrongs and will strive to correct them for the betterment of all is no vice;
For a nation to claim it has always been great, needs no improvement  and to cling to its past achievements is no virtue!


Quentin Christensen
 

That is likely because the text on that line is all symbols which are set to a higher punctuation level than you currently have NVDA set to - so they aren't read..  There is a pull request designed to address this kind of thing here: https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/pull/13483

Kind regards

Quentin.

On Fri, May 27, 2022 at 2:25 PM Ron Canazzi <aa2vm@...> wrote:
Hi Group,

I have experienced the following issue with Blank lines and symbols. When I receive a message from audible informing me of books or things I might be interested in, I usually get a first line like 'Audible an Amazon company. Then I press the down arrow key 5 times and hear absolutely nothing. I do not hear blank--but nothing is spoken. When I hit the sixth line, then speech resumes. Sighted people tell me there are strange characters on those 5 lines--some kind of ASCII art for appearance sake.

I wonder if this is what some people are experiencing.


On 5/26/2022 11:32 PM, Gene wrote:
It sounds to me as though you aren't reporting when it says space and blank with enough detail.  If I have a blank line in Notepad, I hear blank.  When I put spaces on the line and nothing else, it still says blank.  But if I want to check to see if there are any spaces on the line and I issue the say current line command twice quickly, the number of spaces are spoken on the line and blank isn't.

That makes sense since if it announced space when it saw spaces in a line when not spelling the line, you would hear space announced during ordinary reading between every word.

Gene

On 5/26/2022 9:43 PM, William wrote:

Hi Quentin

Hmm, I am just wondering to my understand, blank is nothing, but if there is spaces, and it says blank, I may be confused.






Quentin Christensen 於 27/5/2022 10:13 寫道:

What is the context and would you rather it read?

On Fri, May 27, 2022 at 11:20 AM William <xsuper.sillyx@...> wrote:
Hello all,

When there is a empty line, nvda will report "blank."

But, if the line contain only spaces, say " " nvda will say "space blank."


I wanna understand why nvda still regard it as blank when there are spaces?

Thanks,

William.











--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager



-- 
Signature:
For a nation to admit it has done grevous wrongs and will strive to correct them for the betterment of all is no vice;
For a nation to claim it has always been great, needs no improvement  and to cling to its past achievements is no virtue!



--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager


William
 

I have a blank line in Notepad, I hear blank.  When I put spaces on the line and nothing else, it still says blank.  But if I want to check to see if there are any spaces on the line and I issue the say current line command twice quickly, the > number of spaces are spoken on the line and blank isn't.


If it is in Notepad++, it will say space blank.

> You don't want to hear space spoken when you are reading lines. 

Sometimes, I am editing a file which was given by a sighted person, and I see that there are lines of spaces but it says blank, so at the first glance, I am confused. But I totally agree that it is like sighted people do not see spaces, so line with only spaces can be regarded as blank.




Gene 於 27/5/2022 11:32 寫道:

It sounds to me as though you aren't reporting when it says space and blank with enough detail.  If I have a blank line in Notepad, I hear blank.  When I put spaces on the line and nothing else, it still says blank.  But if I want to check to see if there are any spaces on the line and I issue the say current line command twice quickly, the number of spaces are spoken on the line and blank isn't.

That makes sense since if it announced space when it saw spaces in a line when not spelling the line, you would hear space announced during ordinary reading between every word.

Gene

On 5/26/2022 9:43 PM, William wrote:

Hi Quentin

Hmm, I am just wondering to my understand, blank is nothing, but if there is spaces, and it says blank, I may be confused.






Quentin Christensen 於 27/5/2022 10:13 寫道:

What is the context and would you rather it read?

On Fri, May 27, 2022 at 11:20 AM William <xsuper.sillyx@...> wrote:
Hello all,

When there is a empty line, nvda will report "blank."

But, if the line contain only spaces, say " " nvda will say "space blank."


I wanna understand why nvda still regard it as blank when there are spaces?

Thanks,

William.











--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager



Gene
 

I can't help further unless what you are describing is stated very clearly.  When do you hear space blank?  What, exactly, are you doing when you hear it?  You write as though you hear both space and blank spoken when you take the same action.  For example, when you move by character, you hear space blank spoken when you move.  I'm not saying that is what happens, but I don't know what you are describing.  Is that what you are saying and if so, what is the action that causes the behavior?

Gene

On 5/27/2022 1:15 AM, William wrote:

I have a blank line in Notepad, I hear blank.  When I put spaces on the line and nothing else, it still says blank.  But if I want to check to see if there are any spaces on the line and I issue the say current line command twice quickly, the > number of spaces are spoken on the line and blank isn't.


If it is in Notepad++, it will say space blank.

> You don't want to hear space spoken when you are reading lines. 

Sometimes, I am editing a file which was given by a sighted person, and I see that there are lines of spaces but it says blank, so at the first glance, I am confused. But I totally agree that it is like sighted people do not see spaces, so line with only spaces can be regarded as blank.




Gene 於 27/5/2022 11:32 寫道:
It sounds to me as though you aren't reporting when it says space and blank with enough detail.  If I have a blank line in Notepad, I hear blank.  When I put spaces on the line and nothing else, it still says blank.  But if I want to check to see if there are any spaces on the line and I issue the say current line command twice quickly, the number of spaces are spoken on the line and blank isn't.

That makes sense since if it announced space when it saw spaces in a line when not spelling the line, you would hear space announced during ordinary reading between every word.

Gene

On 5/26/2022 9:43 PM, William wrote:

Hi Quentin

Hmm, I am just wondering to my understand, blank is nothing, but if there is spaces, and it says blank, I may be confused.






Quentin Christensen 於 27/5/2022 10:13 寫道:

What is the context and would you rather it read?

On Fri, May 27, 2022 at 11:20 AM William <xsuper.sillyx@...> wrote:
Hello all,

When there is a empty line, nvda will report "blank."

But, if the line contain only spaces, say " " nvda will say "space blank."


I wanna understand why nvda still regard it as blank when there are spaces?

Thanks,

William.











--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager




William
 
Edited

Sorry, I found out the reason.
Because I have set nvda to report indentation, so my nvda will report space blank if the line is containing one space.


Gene 於 27/5/2022 18:55 寫道:

I can't help further unless what you are describing is stated very clearly.  When do you hear space blank?  What, exactly, are you doing when you hear it?  You write as though you hear both space and blank spoken when you take the same action.  For example, when you move by character, you hear space blank spoken when you move.  I'm not saying that is what happens, but I don't know what you are describing.  Is that what you are saying and if so, what is the action that causes the behavior?

Gene

On 5/27/2022 1:15 AM, William wrote:

I have a blank line in Notepad, I hear blank.  When I put spaces on the line and nothing else, it still says blank.  But if I want to check to see if there are any spaces on the line and I issue the say current line command twice quickly, the > number of spaces are spoken on the line and blank isn't.

 
If it is in Notepad++, it will say space blank.
 
> You don't want to hear space spoken when you are reading lines. 
 
Sometimes, I am editing a file which was given by a sighted person, and I see that there are lines of spaces but it says blank, so at the first glance, I am confused. But I totally agree that it is like sighted people do not see spaces, so line with only spaces can be regarded as blank.
 
 
 
 
Gene 於 27/5/2022 11:32 寫道:
It sounds to me as though you aren't reporting when it says space and blank with enough detail.  If I have a blank line in Notepad, I hear blank.  When I put spaces on the line and nothing else, it still says blank.  But if I want to check to see if there are any spaces on the line and I issue the say current line command twice quickly, the number of spaces are spoken on the line and blank isn't.

That makes sense since if it announced space when it saw spaces in a line when not spelling the line, you would hear space announced during ordinary reading between every word.

Gene

On 5/26/2022 9:43 PM, William wrote:

Hi Quentin

Hmm, I am just wondering to my understand, blank is nothing, but if there is spaces, and it says blank, I may be confused.

 

 

 

 

 

Quentin Christensen 於 27/5/2022 10:13 寫道:

What is the context and would you rather it read?

On Fri, May 27, 2022 at 11:20 AM William <xsuper.sillyx@...> wrote:
Hello all,

When there is a empty line, nvda will report "blank."

But, if the line contain only spaces, say " " nvda will say "space blank."


I wanna understand why nvda still regard it as blank when there are spaces?

Thanks,

William.










 
--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager
 


Gene
 

Others may have more comments.  Now we know what the problem is but it is outside of my knowledge.

gene

On 5/27/2022 6:22 AM, William wrote:

Oh I found out that why you did not understand what I meant.

My nvda is now set to zh-tw

1. open somewhere that can type characters, like the composing window of Thunderbird, Notepad++

2. type a space into the first line

3. press nvda+up arrow to report current line

4. my nvda says "space blank" (in chinese)

5. switch nvda locale to english

6. repeat step 3

7. nvda only says "blank"


So different locale produce different result regarding this situation.



Gene 於 27/5/2022 18:55 寫道:
I can't help further unless what you are describing is stated very clearly.  When do you hear space blank?  What, exactly, are you doing when you hear it?  You write as though you hear both space and blank spoken when you take the same action.  For example, when you move by character, you hear space blank spoken when you move.  I'm not saying that is what happens, but I don't know what you are describing.  Is that what you are saying and if so, what is the action that causes the behavior?

Gene

On 5/27/2022 1:15 AM, William wrote:

I have a blank line in Notepad, I hear blank.  When I put spaces on the line and nothing else, it still says blank.  But if I want to check to see if there are any spaces on the line and I issue the say current line command twice quickly, the > number of spaces are spoken on the line and blank isn't.


If it is in Notepad++, it will say space blank.

> You don't want to hear space spoken when you are reading lines. 

Sometimes, I am editing a file which was given by a sighted person, and I see that there are lines of spaces but it says blank, so at the first glance, I am confused. But I totally agree that it is like sighted people do not see spaces, so line with only spaces can be regarded as blank.




Gene 於 27/5/2022 11:32 寫道:
It sounds to me as though you aren't reporting when it says space and blank with enough detail.  If I have a blank line in Notepad, I hear blank.  When I put spaces on the line and nothing else, it still says blank.  But if I want to check to see if there are any spaces on the line and I issue the say current line command twice quickly, the number of spaces are spoken on the line and blank isn't.

That makes sense since if it announced space when it saw spaces in a line when not spelling the line, you would hear space announced during ordinary reading between every word.

Gene

On 5/26/2022 9:43 PM, William wrote:

Hi Quentin

Hmm, I am just wondering to my understand, blank is nothing, but if there is spaces, and it says blank, I may be confused.






Quentin Christensen 於 27/5/2022 10:13 寫道:

What is the context and would you rather it read?

On Fri, May 27, 2022 at 11:20 AM William <xsuper.sillyx@...> wrote:
Hello all,

When there is a empty line, nvda will report "blank."

But, if the line contain only spaces, say " " nvda will say "space blank."


I wanna understand why nvda still regard it as blank when there are spaces?

Thanks,

William.











--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager





William
 

Gene,

Sorry, locale is irrelevant to this issue, I have used different configuration profile after switching the nvda locale, so at first I wonder the problem is related to the locale.

Sorry for causing confusion.



SuperSilly 於 27/5/2022 19:22 寫道:

Oh I found out that why you did not understand what I meant.

My nvda is now set to zh-tw

1. open somewhere that can type characters, like the composing window of Thunderbird, Notepad++

2. type a space into the first line

3. press nvda+up arrow to report current line

4. my nvda says "space blank" (in chinese)

5. switch nvda locale to english

6. repeat step 3

7. nvda only says "blank"


So different locale produce different result regarding this situation.



Gene 於 27/5/2022 18:55 寫道:
I can't help further unless what you are describing is stated very clearly.  When do you hear space blank?  What, exactly, are you doing when you hear it?  You write as though you hear both space and blank spoken when you take the same action.  For example, when you move by character, you hear space blank spoken when you move.  I'm not saying that is what happens, but I don't know what you are describing.  Is that what you are saying and if so, what is the action that causes the behavior?

Gene

On 5/27/2022 1:15 AM, William wrote:

I have a blank line in Notepad, I hear blank.  When I put spaces on the line and nothing else, it still says blank.  But if I want to check to see if there are any spaces on the line and I issue the say current line command twice quickly, the > number of spaces are spoken on the line and blank isn't.


If it is in Notepad++, it will say space blank.

> You don't want to hear space spoken when you are reading lines. 

Sometimes, I am editing a file which was given by a sighted person, and I see that there are lines of spaces but it says blank, so at the first glance, I am confused. But I totally agree that it is like sighted people do not see spaces, so line with only spaces can be regarded as blank.




Gene 於 27/5/2022 11:32 寫道:
It sounds to me as though you aren't reporting when it says space and blank with enough detail.  If I have a blank line in Notepad, I hear blank.  When I put spaces on the line and nothing else, it still says blank.  But if I want to check to see if there are any spaces on the line and I issue the say current line command twice quickly, the number of spaces are spoken on the line and blank isn't.

That makes sense since if it announced space when it saw spaces in a line when not spelling the line, you would hear space announced during ordinary reading between every word.

Gene

On 5/26/2022 9:43 PM, William wrote:

Hi Quentin

Hmm, I am just wondering to my understand, blank is nothing, but if there is spaces, and it says blank, I may be confused.






Quentin Christensen 於 27/5/2022 10:13 寫道:

What is the context and would you rather it read?

On Fri, May 27, 2022 at 11:20 AM William <xsuper.sillyx@...> wrote:
Hello all,

When there is a empty line, nvda will report "blank."

But, if the line contain only spaces, say " " nvda will say "space blank."


I wanna understand why nvda still regard it as blank when there are spaces?

Thanks,

William.











--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager




Gene
 

Its good you found out.

Gene

On 5/27/2022 6:22 AM, William wrote:

[Edited Message Follows]

Sorry, I found out the reason.
Because I have set nvda to report indentation, so my nvda will report space blank if the line is containing one space.


Gene 於 27/5/2022 18:55 寫道:
I can't help further unless what you are describing is stated very clearly.  When do you hear space blank?  What, exactly, are you doing when you hear it?  You write as though you hear both space and blank spoken when you take the same action.  For example, when you move by character, you hear space blank spoken when you move.  I'm not saying that is what happens, but I don't know what you are describing.  Is that what you are saying and if so, what is the action that causes the behavior?

Gene

On 5/27/2022 1:15 AM, William wrote:

I have a blank line in Notepad, I hear blank.  When I put spaces on the line and nothing else, it still says blank.  But if I want to check to see if there are any spaces on the line and I issue the say current line command twice quickly, the > number of spaces are spoken on the line and blank isn't.

 
If it is in Notepad++, it will say space blank.
 
> You don't want to hear space spoken when you are reading lines. 
 
Sometimes, I am editing a file which was given by a sighted person, and I see that there are lines of spaces but it says blank, so at the first glance, I am confused. But I totally agree that it is like sighted people do not see spaces, so line with only spaces can be regarded as blank.
 
 
 
 
Gene 於 27/5/2022 11:32 寫道:
It sounds to me as though you aren't reporting when it says space and blank with enough detail.  If I have a blank line in Notepad, I hear blank.  When I put spaces on the line and nothing else, it still says blank.  But if I want to check to see if there are any spaces on the line and I issue the say current line command twice quickly, the number of spaces are spoken on the line and blank isn't.

That makes sense since if it announced space when it saw spaces in a line when not spelling the line, you would hear space announced during ordinary reading between every word.

Gene

On 5/26/2022 9:43 PM, William wrote:

Hi Quentin

Hmm, I am just wondering to my understand, blank is nothing, but if there is spaces, and it says blank, I may be confused.

 

 

 

 

 

Quentin Christensen 於 27/5/2022 10:13 寫道:

What is the context and would you rather it read?

On Fri, May 27, 2022 at 11:20 AM William <xsuper.sillyx@...> wrote:
Hello all,

When there is a empty line, nvda will report "blank."

But, if the line contain only spaces, say " " nvda will say "space blank."


I wanna understand why nvda still regard it as blank when there are spaces?

Thanks,

William.










 
--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager
 


William
 

Hi all,
Sorry I thought my mind was stuck yesterday. Please ignore all the conversations yesterday.
Let me restate my concern.
-----
First of all, lets type a few lines into something like notepad
'''
Hello, this is the new worl.
Hi, this is the second line.
     
'''
While I am typing those lines, I mistakenly typed some spaces into the third line, which nvda says blank.
Now, I move my edit cursor up two line to do proof reading by pressing up arrows.
Oh I found that the word 'worl' is missing a 'd' so I move the cursor to the end, before the dot, add a 'd.'
Then I keep proof reading and find that the second line is perfect.
Then I press down arrow to move to the third line.
As nvda default to not reading indentations, I assume that the line is a blank line, because I heard nvda says blank.
Then I keep typing the third line.
'''
Hello, this is the new world.
Hi, this is the second line.
     Oh this is the third line.
'''
So the problem comes, I have typed those words after those mistakenly typed spaces.
I know that for blind people who use braille display will immediately pick up those spaces because they are not relying mainly on speech of nvda. Even though nvda says the line is blank, they can still determine that the line is a line containing spaces by touching braille display.
But for people like me, who do not use braille display, I am mainly relying on the audio information provided by nvda. So if I hear blank, I assumed that it is really blank and has nothing, not even spaces.
But refer to the above situation, I assumed that it is a blank line without anything, and start typing on the third line.
But in fact, it is not really a blank line, so what I have typed is after those spaces.


This is the problem that I have came across.

Thanks,
William


















Gene 於 27/5/2022 19:53 寫道:

Its good you found out.

Gene

On 5/27/2022 6:22 AM, William wrote:

[Edited Message Follows]

Sorry, I found out the reason.
Because I have set nvda to report indentation, so my nvda will report space blank if the line is containing one space.


Gene 於 27/5/2022 18:55 寫道:
I can't help further unless what you are describing is stated very clearly.  When do you hear space blank?  What, exactly, are you doing when you hear it?  You write as though you hear both space and blank spoken when you take the same action.  For example, when you move by character, you hear space blank spoken when you move.  I'm not saying that is what happens, but I don't know what you are describing.  Is that what you are saying and if so, what is the action that causes the behavior?

Gene

On 5/27/2022 1:15 AM, William wrote:

I have a blank line in Notepad, I hear blank.  When I put spaces on the line and nothing else, it still says blank.  But if I want to check to see if there are any spaces on the line and I issue the say current line command twice quickly, the > number of spaces are spoken on the line and blank isn't.

 
If it is in Notepad++, it will say space blank.
 
> You don't want to hear space spoken when you are reading lines. 
 
Sometimes, I am editing a file which was given by a sighted person, and I see that there are lines of spaces but it says blank, so at the first glance, I am confused. But I totally agree that it is like sighted people do not see spaces, so line with only spaces can be regarded as blank.
 
 
 
 
Gene 於 27/5/2022 11:32 寫道:
It sounds to me as though you aren't reporting when it says space and blank with enough detail.  If I have a blank line in Notepad, I hear blank.  When I put spaces on the line and nothing else, it still says blank.  But if I want to check to see if there are any spaces on the line and I issue the say current line command twice quickly, the number of spaces are spoken on the line and blank isn't.

That makes sense since if it announced space when it saw spaces in a line when not spelling the line, you would hear space announced during ordinary reading between every word.

Gene

On 5/26/2022 9:43 PM, William wrote:

Hi Quentin

Hmm, I am just wondering to my understand, blank is nothing, but if there is spaces, and it says blank, I may be confused.

 

 

 

 

 

Quentin Christensen 於 27/5/2022 10:13 寫道:

What is the context and would you rather it read?

On Fri, May 27, 2022 at 11:20 AM William <xsuper.sillyx@...> wrote:
Hello all,

When there is a empty line, nvda will report "blank."

But, if the line contain only spaces, say " " nvda will say "space blank."


I wanna understand why nvda still regard it as blank when there are spaces?

Thanks,

William.










 
--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager
 


Gene
 

Unless NVDA has an add-on for the problem, I don't know of any way to hear that information.  JAWS has something you can turn on, I think its called the text analyzer, that will say something like two spaces or run on of spaces, but unless there is an add-on I don't know about, NVDA can't be made to do that.  We'll see if anyone knows of an add-on.

Perhaps NVDA should have some function to do that.

Gene

On 5/27/2022 8:05 PM, William wrote:

Hi all,
Sorry I thought my mind was stuck yesterday. Please ignore all the conversations yesterday.
Let me restate my concern.
-----
First of all, lets type a few lines into something like notepad
'''
Hello, this is the new worl.
Hi, this is the second line.
     
'''
While I am typing those lines, I mistakenly typed some spaces into the third line, which nvda says blank.
Now, I move my edit cursor up two line to do proof reading by pressing up arrows.
Oh I found that the word 'worl' is missing a 'd' so I move the cursor to the end, before the dot, add a 'd.'
Then I keep proof reading and find that the second line is perfect.
Then I press down arrow to move to the third line.
As nvda default to not reading indentations, I assume that the line is a blank line, because I heard nvda says blank.
Then I keep typing the third line.
'''
Hello, this is the new world.
Hi, this is the second line.
     Oh this is the third line.
'''
So the problem comes, I have typed those words after those mistakenly typed spaces.
I know that for blind people who use braille display will immediately pick up those spaces because they are not relying mainly on speech of nvda. Even though nvda says the line is blank, they can still determine that the line is a line containing spaces by touching braille display.
But for people like me, who do not use braille display, I am mainly relying on the audio information provided by nvda. So if I hear blank, I assumed that it is really blank and has nothing, not even spaces.
But refer to the above situation, I assumed that it is a blank line without anything, and start typing on the third line.
But in fact, it is not really a blank line, so what I have typed is after those spaces.


This is the problem that I have came across.

Thanks,
William


















Gene 於 27/5/2022 19:53 寫道:
Its good you found out.

Gene

On 5/27/2022 6:22 AM, William wrote:

[Edited Message Follows]

Sorry, I found out the reason.
Because I have set nvda to report indentation, so my nvda will report space blank if the line is containing one space.


Gene 於 27/5/2022 18:55 寫道:
I can't help further unless what you are describing is stated very clearly.  When do you hear space blank?  What, exactly, are you doing when you hear it?  You write as though you hear both space and blank spoken when you take the same action.  For example, when you move by character, you hear space blank spoken when you move.  I'm not saying that is what happens, but I don't know what you are describing.  Is that what you are saying and if so, what is the action that causes the behavior?

Gene

On 5/27/2022 1:15 AM, William wrote:

I have a blank line in Notepad, I hear blank.  When I put spaces on the line and nothing else, it still says blank.  But if I want to check to see if there are any spaces on the line and I issue the say current line command twice quickly, the > number of spaces are spoken on the line and blank isn't.

 
If it is in Notepad++, it will say space blank.
 
> You don't want to hear space spoken when you are reading lines. 
 
Sometimes, I am editing a file which was given by a sighted person, and I see that there are lines of spaces but it says blank, so at the first glance, I am confused. But I totally agree that it is like sighted people do not see spaces, so line with only spaces can be regarded as blank.
 
 
 
 
Gene 於 27/5/2022 11:32 寫道:
It sounds to me as though you aren't reporting when it says space and blank with enough detail.  If I have a blank line in Notepad, I hear blank.  When I put spaces on the line and nothing else, it still says blank.  But if I want to check to see if there are any spaces on the line and I issue the say current line command twice quickly, the number of spaces are spoken on the line and blank isn't.

That makes sense since if it announced space when it saw spaces in a line when not spelling the line, you would hear space announced during ordinary reading between every word.

Gene

On 5/26/2022 9:43 PM, William wrote:

Hi Quentin

Hmm, I am just wondering to my understand, blank is nothing, but if there is spaces, and it says blank, I may be confused.

 

 

 

 

 

Quentin Christensen 於 27/5/2022 10:13 寫道:

What is the context and would you rather it read?

On Fri, May 27, 2022 at 11:20 AM William <xsuper.sillyx@...> wrote:
Hello all,

When there is a empty line, nvda will report "blank."

But, if the line contain only spaces, say " " nvda will say "space blank."


I wanna understand why nvda still regard it as blank when there are spaces?

Thanks,

William.










 
--
Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager
 



Steve Nutt
 

Hi,

 

I would prefer NVDA or any screen reader say something like “Three Spaces” if they are present on a line.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Quentin Christensen
Sent: 27 May 2022 05:12
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA reporting blank

 

It could also be argued that sighted users don't see anything for whitespace (either spaces, tabs, newlines, etc) (ok Word with non-printable characters displayed is an exception).

 

To the OP, In any case, if you can think of a good workaround and use case, then feel free to create an issue.  As Gene noted, you don't generally want spaces between words read out when just reading regular text, and depending on how you navigate, they ARE reported now.  Whether that fits what you need, will depend on.... what you need, and what you are doing.

 

On Fri, May 27, 2022 at 2:09 PM Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

Also, if I move by character with the left and right arrows and there are spaces on a line, I hear space as I move and if there are words and spaces, I hear the words spelled as I move and space spoken between words.  When I up and down arrow among lines with spaces and nothing else, I hear blank.  All this makes sense.  You don't want to hear space spoken when you are reading lines.  You do want to hear space spoken when you are moving by character through a line.

Gene

On 5/26/2022 10:32 PM, Gene wrote:

It sounds to me as though you aren't reporting when it says space and blank with enough detail.  If I have a blank line in Notepad, I hear blank.  When I put spaces on the line and nothing else, it still says blank.  But if I want to check to see if there are any spaces on the line and I issue the say current line command twice quickly, the number of spaces are spoken on the line and blank isn't.

That makes sense since if it announced space when it saw spaces in a line when not spelling the line, you would hear space announced during ordinary reading between every word.

Gene

On 5/26/2022 9:43 PM, William wrote:

Hi Quentin

Hmm, I am just wondering to my understand, blank is nothing, but if there is spaces, and it says blank, I may be confused.

 

 

 

 

 

Quentin Christensen 27/5/2022 10:13 寫道:

What is the context and would you rather it read?

 

On Fri, May 27, 2022 at 11:20 AM William <xsuper.sillyx@...> wrote:

Hello all,

When there is a empty line, nvda will report "blank."

But, if the line contain only spaces, say " " nvda will say "space blank."


I wanna understand why nvda still regard it as blank when there are spaces?

Thanks,

William.








 

 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

 

 


 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 


Steve Nutt
 

Hi,

 

You could try increasing your punctuation level.

 

All the best


Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ron Canazzi
Sent: 27 May 2022 05:23
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA reporting blank

 

Hi Group,

I have experienced the following issue with Blank lines and symbols. When I receive a message from audible informing me of books or things I might be interested in, I usually get a first line like 'Audible an Amazon company. Then I press the down arrow key 5 times and hear absolutely nothing. I do not hear blank--but nothing is spoken. When I hit the sixth line, then speech resumes. Sighted people tell me there are strange characters on those 5 lines--some kind of ASCII art for appearance sake.

I wonder if this is what some people are experiencing.

On 5/26/2022 11:32 PM, Gene wrote:

It sounds to me as though you aren't reporting when it says space and blank with enough detail.  If I have a blank line in Notepad, I hear blank.  When I put spaces on the line and nothing else, it still says blank.  But if I want to check to see if there are any spaces on the line and I issue the say current line command twice quickly, the number of spaces are spoken on the line and blank isn't.

That makes sense since if it announced space when it saw spaces in a line when not spelling the line, you would hear space announced during ordinary reading between every word.

Gene

On 5/26/2022 9:43 PM, William wrote:

Hi Quentin

Hmm, I am just wondering to my understand, blank is nothing, but if there is spaces, and it says blank, I may be confused.

 

 

 

 

 

Quentin Christensen 27/5/2022 10:13 寫道:

What is the context and would you rather it read?

 

On Fri, May 27, 2022 at 11:20 AM William <xsuper.sillyx@...> wrote:

Hello all,

When there is a empty line, nvda will report "blank."

But, if the line contain only spaces, say " " nvda will say "space blank."


I wanna understand why nvda still regard it as blank when there are spaces?

Thanks,

William.








 

 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

 



-- 
Signature:
For a nation to admit it has done grevous wrongs and will strive to correct them for the betterment of all is no vice;
For a nation to claim it has always been great, needs no improvement  and to cling to its past achievements is no virtue!


Steve Nutt
 

Yes that works, but it shouldn’t say blank at the end.

 

All the best


Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of William
Sent: 27 May 2022 12:22
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA reporting blank

 

[Edited Message Follows]

Sorry, I found out the reason.
Because I have set nvda to report indentation, so my nvda will report space blank if the line is containing one space.

Gene 27/5/2022 18:55 寫道:

I can't help further unless what you are describing is stated very clearly.  When do you hear space blank?  What, exactly, are you doing when you hear it?  You write as though you hear both space and blank spoken when you take the same action.  For example, when you move by character, you hear space blank spoken when you move.  I'm not saying that is what happens, but I don't know what you are describing.  Is that what you are saying and if so, what is the action that causes the behavior?

Gene

On 5/27/2022 1:15 AM, William wrote:

I have a blank line in Notepad, I hear blank.  When I put spaces on the line and nothing else, it still says blank.  But if I want to check to see if there are any spaces on the line and I issue the say current line command twice quickly, the > number of spaces are spoken on the line and blank isn't.

 

If it is in Notepad++, it will say space blank.

 

> You don't want to hear space spoken when you are reading lines. 

 

Sometimes, I am editing a file which was given by a sighted person, and I see that there are lines of spaces but it says blank, so at the first glance, I am confused. But I totally agree that it is like sighted people do not see spaces, so line with only spaces can be regarded as blank.

 

 

 

 

Gene 27/5/2022 11:32 寫道:

It sounds to me as though you aren't reporting when it says space and blank with enough detail.  If I have a blank line in Notepad, I hear blank.  When I put spaces on the line and nothing else, it still says blank.  But if I want to check to see if there are any spaces on the line and I issue the say current line command twice quickly, the number of spaces are spoken on the line and blank isn't.

That makes sense since if it announced space when it saw spaces in a line when not spelling the line, you would hear space announced during ordinary reading between every word.

Gene

On 5/26/2022 9:43 PM, William wrote:

Hi Quentin

Hmm, I am just wondering to my understand, blank is nothing, but if there is spaces, and it says blank, I may be confused.

 

 

 

 

 

Quentin Christensen 27/5/2022 10:13 寫道:

What is the context and would you rather it read?

 

On Fri, May 27, 2022 at 11:20 AM William <xsuper.sillyx@...> wrote:

Hello all,

When there is a empty line, nvda will report "blank."

But, if the line contain only spaces, say " " nvda will say "space blank."


I wanna understand why nvda still regard it as blank when there are spaces?

Thanks,

William.








 

 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 


Gene
 

JAWS has a feature called Text Analyzer which reports things it thinks may be errors.  I don't know how many spaces it reports beyond one space between words but it does report spaces that it thinks are likely to be too many. 

Gene

On 6/23/2022 11:28 AM, Steve Nutt wrote:

Hi,

 

I would prefer NVDA or any screen reader say something like “Three Spaces” if they are present on a line.

 

All the best

 

Steve

 

From: nvda@nvda.groups.io <nvda@nvda.groups.io> On Behalf Of Quentin Christensen
Sent: 27 May 2022 05:12
To: nvda@nvda.groups.io
Subject: Re: [nvda] NVDA reporting blank

 

It could also be argued that sighted users don't see anything for whitespace (either spaces, tabs, newlines, etc) (ok Word with non-printable characters displayed is an exception).

 

To the OP, In any case, if you can think of a good workaround and use case, then feel free to create an issue.  As Gene noted, you don't generally want spaces between words read out when just reading regular text, and depending on how you navigate, they ARE reported now.  Whether that fits what you need, will depend on.... what you need, and what you are doing.

 

On Fri, May 27, 2022 at 2:09 PM Gene <gsasner@...> wrote:

Also, if I move by character with the left and right arrows and there are spaces on a line, I hear space as I move and if there are words and spaces, I hear the words spelled as I move and space spoken between words.  When I up and down arrow among lines with spaces and nothing else, I hear blank.  All this makes sense.  You don't want to hear space spoken when you are reading lines.  You do want to hear space spoken when you are moving by character through a line.

Gene

On 5/26/2022 10:32 PM, Gene wrote:

It sounds to me as though you aren't reporting when it says space and blank with enough detail.  If I have a blank line in Notepad, I hear blank.  When I put spaces on the line and nothing else, it still says blank.  But if I want to check to see if there are any spaces on the line and I issue the say current line command twice quickly, the number of spaces are spoken on the line and blank isn't.

That makes sense since if it announced space when it saw spaces in a line when not spelling the line, you would hear space announced during ordinary reading between every word.

Gene

On 5/26/2022 9:43 PM, William wrote:

Hi Quentin

Hmm, I am just wondering to my understand, blank is nothing, but if there is spaces, and it says blank, I may be confused.

 

 

 

 

 

Quentin Christensen 27/5/2022 10:13 寫道:

What is the context and would you rather it read?

 

On Fri, May 27, 2022 at 11:20 AM William <xsuper.sillyx@...> wrote:

Hello all,

When there is a empty line, nvda will report "blank."

But, if the line contain only spaces, say " " nvda will say "space blank."


I wanna understand why nvda still regard it as blank when there are spaces?

Thanks,

William.








 

 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager

 

 

 


 

--

Quentin Christensen
Training and Support Manager